The real reason Planetside is unbalanced...

[Jagd]

Ok, so this is just a theory that I came up with last night, and it may be way off. I'm sure you'll me glad to tell me why it's wrong, so please do.

Anyways, I was soloing trying to fend off incursions on locked (or recently locked) continents. I would recall and HART to the next continent when necessary, and I played on Forseral, Searhus, Hossin and Esamir through the course of a couple hours. What struck me was that even with this new population system, there was not a single engagement with even numbers of attackers and defenders. Either the defenders had a numerical advantage and repelled the ghost hacker/squad, or the offense simply overwhelmed the skeleton crew trying to keep the continent under lock.

Planetside is in a near perpetual state of one-sided battles, and while being outnumbered can certainly get the adrenaline going when you get on a killing spree, it sure isn't fun when you realize you won't succeed overall unless you follow the herd. The sad part is, I just can't think of a way that this could be overcome with programming since the standard FPS model of auto-balancing the teams will never fit into a game that has character development as one of its key ingredients.

Well anyways, that's my theory. What do you think?

[Veteran]

The HART can turn a retreat into a rout.

Blame the HART, Surge and Heavy Assault in that order.

And drink your daily ration of mineral water. The TR is watching.

[Jagd]

I dunno Vet, the HART allowed me to make pull off some pretty decisive counter-hacks as well as letting me get out of the way of an NC steamroller and on to somewhere I could be productive. Of course, 9 times out of 10 I hotdrop at a Tech Plant far back from the front, where I can matrix and keep my Reaver up, so I'm not *exploiting* the HART, as some would call it.

I don't understand what surge or heavy assault would have to do with this though. It just seems that skill and tactics are rendered irrelevant most of the time, due to sheer enemy body count.

[Veteran]

Jagd, you proved my point with your speculation. You used the HART as a NPC tactical-insertion vehicle.

This is supposed to be pure PVP. The HART is the equivalent of an NPC that helps you get close to your enemy with absolutely no counter-measures.

The HART sucketh. Surge sucketh also. Heavy Assault sucketh the least of the three, but still enough to take the chrome off of a trailer-hitch.

And no, vodka isn't part of my rant. It's beer by the gallon today, and the fact that I watched Tombstone twice in a row.

You'll be a daisy if you prove me wrong about the HART's broken nature.

[noxious]

I've been finding even battles. Granted you will never find even battle's that are not zerg fights (when there is no pop-lock, one side is bound to have more than the toher) but over the last couple of days I've found plenty of stalemates that last so long I get frustrated.

[TheRagingGerbil]

HART is broken.

Broken to the point where it needs to be removed entirely.

In its place, we need sanctuary broadcast gates. These gates would allow you to warp to any gate that is on or connected to a friendly locked continent. This will do a mutitude of things.

1) Promote the idea that this perpetual war we are in has some semblance of a battle front.

2) Allow you a fairly quick response to an enemy invasion.

[Liquidtide]

I have the solution....


HART = Gone

In its place... duhn dun dahhhhh

A large Spawn room where you can deconstruct at the Sanctuary and reconstruct in any Empire owned (not enemy hacked) base on any continent.

Comments, ramblings?

[MidnightDave]

well, i dont know about the hart, my experience with it last night was that as we (tr) were fighting my outfit dropped near a tower on a base that had just been captured, and we bascially stopped an NC incursion into the northern part of the cont. We had been fighting the VS up there already and if the NC had gotten a foothold, we would have been toast. We used it to tactically drop, organize and move out, im not sure if that makes it suck, but it provided a rescue that we would not have been able to perform without it.

AS for even fights, on searhus we had some dang even fights first with the NC in the afformentioned battle, then we took the NC's last base way to the south with a toe for toe, inch by inch battle. Then we took on the volcano cluster (we were on searhus) which was controlled by the VS. It was a pretty even fight until the last VS base when the majority of the VS bugged out and we rolled over the 23-24 who decided to stay. It was quite a battle overall, and was very even until the VS realized that they were toast and chickened out.


Speaking of that, my philosophy (sp?) about that is simple. Unless my outfit orders tell me otherwise, I would like to stay and fight until the very last tower is captured, unfortunately the zerg never does. Im one of the guys who in real life would go down in a blaze of glory lol. I never give up until we have no place to spawn cept sanc. That is until I get a recall order from the outfit leader. (when that happens I go on a suicide run and take down everyone I can and when I die just spawn at sanc)

And thats my thoughts, all of em, I have no more, whats my name again? where am I? what am I doing here? GAH! . . . . .

[Happy lil Elf]

Surge isn't the problem. Being able to fire a weapon with little to no handicap while surging is the problem.

[Veteran]

I'd love it if your squad medic could use his Medical Applicator on you and store your matrix, only to upload it at a friendly facility later.

This would make medics with a Mosquito into effective HARTs. Solos would have to rely on Instant Action or warpgates.

It's a tough call. The HART would be so perfect if it only dropped you around friendly SOIs. The devs have been so good at anticipating our needs that I wouldn't be surprised if this were some day implemented.

[Fenrys]

With all the griping about stalemates, I guess our questions about balance are answered.

[infinite loop]

Jagd - I would have partially agreed with your theory before the last patch, but not now. I've found that the battles are more even now than ever before. I haven't seen a zerg roll a continent since the patch. The 3-ways so far have been really entertaining.

That said, I still think there should be a better way to enforce an even-sized battle. I read an idea on the OF a while back that SmokeJumper liked also. Basically, you would start with a base number of players for each side, say 50. You can get up to that number of guys on a continent with no restrictions. Then, after that base number, you can only get a certain percent population advantage over the next populous empire. Let's set it at 10% for now. So, if one empire has 50 guys on a cont, you can only get 55 on. Then, the other empire would be able to get up to 61 on, and it leapfrogs, etc., etc. until you reach a total pop lock. I really like the basics of the idea, and would love to see it refined and implemented. Would this solve your theory Jagd?

[Rbstr]

the hart is the biggest problem in the game i would say

[ChewyLSB]

I have the solution....


HART = Gone

In its place... duhn dun dahhhhh

A large Spawn room where you can deconstruct at the Sanctuary and reconstruct in any Empire owned (not enemy hacked) base on any continent.

Comments, ramblings?

That sounds... absolutely... brilliant!

[BadAsh]

HART is broken.

Broken to the point where it needs to be removed entirely.

In its place, we need sanctuary broadcast gates. These gates would allow you to warp to any gate that is on or connected to a friendly locked continent. This will do a mutitude of things.

1) Promote the idea that this perpetual war we are in has some semblance of a battle front.

2) Allow you a fairly quick response to an enemy invasion.

Sold. Nice idea.

[infinite loop]

HART is broken.

Broken to the point where it needs to be removed entirely.

In its place, we need sanctuary broadcast gates. These gates would allow you to warp to any gate that is on or connected to a friendly locked continent. This will do a mutitude of things.

1) Promote the idea that this perpetual war we are in has some semblance of a battle front.

2) Allow you a fairly quick response to an enemy invasion.

Perhaps the devs read your mind. Broadcast gates are going into the next patch, as per SmokeJumper on the OF.

[Biohazzard56]

Good Points, i think that the hart should be removed now

[Rbstr]

DOWN WITH THE HART! We shall muder its, then the travelings will be ourses agains

[Vis Armata]

People will get used to reallocating forces before long, I hope.

[Heavygain]

I luv the new population thingy. It gives the TR power again.

[Angel_of_Death]

Explain why it gives only the TR more power.

[Onizuka-GTO]

I have the solution....


HART = Gone

In its place... duhn dun dahhhhh

A large Spawn room where you can deconstruct at the Sanctuary and reconstruct in any Empire owned (not enemy hacked) base on any continent.

Comments, ramblings?


*sigh*

I remember when I first tried the 7-day trial the Hart used to have a long timer and the people would wait in sanctury to pick up people in galaxy's/Sunderer's/Delieverer's and it was fun. It really felt like a new type of game like your a fresh reinforcement heading out to the frontline.
But your idea would kill off ground transport entirely.
Why would people need to travel by air or ground when you can respawn anywhere?

Not good for helpful Bus Drivers everywhere. >.<

[infinite loop]

The broadcast warpgates are going to be great I think. With the ability to jump to any continent connected to a friendly locked continent, and the fact you can get any vehicle in sanc, those mass transport vehicles will be used again. I think we'll also see more organized raids forming in sanc, and those are always a blast. I'm really looking forward to it. If they would kill the hart it would be even better.

[SilverLord]

If they would kill the hart it would be even better.What about the people that log on and have no vehical certs and their outfit is not on at all? What are the grunts supposed to do then?

[Kikinchikin]

that too worries me silverlord. Here's a radical, but if not abused idea.

Give everyone a single ATV as a baseline cert like standard assault. However, make these atvs take maybe 10 bullets to kill (weaker than even the wraith), so they are solely for transportation, and will prove very in effective transporting anywhere but in quiet non embroiled continents. You could then remove the hart, and everyone w2ould at least have this little moped to get to work on.

[infinite loop]

I'll back off my statement. Unless you're a low BR character, there really is no excuse for not having a vehicle though. But anyway, just make the hart only drop near friendly SOIs and we're cool. It's the dropping behind enemy lines that fucks up any semblance of true battle lines.

[Liquidtide]

that too worries me silverlord. Here's a radical, but if not abused idea.

Give everyone a single ATV as a baseline cert like standard assault. However, make these atvs take maybe 10 bullets to kill (weaker than even the wraith), so they are solely for transportation, and will prove very in effective transporting anywhere but in quiet non embroiled continents. You could then remove the hart, and everyone w2ould at least have this little moped to get to work on.


Give them ANTs, I think it's silly you have to cert in any vehicle to get an ANT when it should be common pool for everyone.

~Tide

[Veteran]

That's a good idea. Giving everyone an ANT would not unbalance anything.

[TheN00b]

I really dunno 'bout removing the HART. While I agree that masses of hotdropping troops are good for neither defenders or bussers, some people really don't have the time to spend 20 minutes transporting to battle (which will happen if we ditch the HART). Perhaps a lot of veterans would like it, but we'd lose a lot of n00bs who were used to fast-paced FPS's before they had time to adjust to Planetside's more relaxed pace.

[Happy lil Elf]

Don't remove it. Make it so people can HART once and hour, possibly even longer inbetween. Bingo you have a way to get to the fight when you first log on but no more people who finish a fight at one base, recall, and drop at the next base down the line because it's faster.

[prbountyhunter]

I remember in beta every time you would get in the hart it would crash, then the devs "fixed it" so it would only crash every other time... people used a LOT more galaxies/sunderers back then. When a squad leader wanted members, they would park a galaxy infront of the spawn and set it to group only. Now when I want members I go to the HART building and beg them not to drop wherever the zerg is.

[Ait'al]

Partly read the begining post but this came to mind. Why dont htey make the pop lock based on how many bases your holding (per empire, and without reducing hte enemies numbers) so that people that have bases can have as many people per base as the amount the attackers will likely bring against them instead of a constantly static number that makes you have to stretch out more and more after each base? Or am i completely misinterpreting the system? Or put the number up so high that it just evens out naturally at how many people they can get per base against how many people they can get to attack?

[TheN00b]

I like Happy's idea, but perhaps it could be toned down to 45 minutes. Other than that, sounds good.

[SilverLord]

I'll back off my statement. Unless you're a low BR character, there really is no excuse for not having a vehicle though.I hope your not serious. Certs:

HA/AV/Med/Adv. Med/Rexo/Engineering/Pounder(soon DC)/Medium Assault

[Ait'al]

Wasnt it only 20 minutes back when i read everyone say it worked right? So why not that?

[infinite loop]

I hope your not serious. Certs:

HA/AV/Med/Adv. Med/Rexo/Engineering/Pounder(soon DC)/Medium Assault

I'm totally serious. For you, at least the MAX runs at a decent rate. But seriously, if you wanted a vehicle, you could find room in there. It's your choice to not have reliable transportation.

[EarlyDawn]

Increase the HART timer to 15 minutes again.

This, combined with the new sanctuary broadcast warpgates to dominated continents will:
A, create a more solid, ameobic frontline
B, see more galaxies at Sanct
C, make continents harder to take, making OBO that much more useful.

[SilverLord]

Why should I HAVE to get a vehical to play a game that I as a customer pays for? I don't see the logic behind this.

[BlackHawk]

*Agrees with Silverlord*
Why should people who prefer to make characters without vehicles or *GASP* play solo be made to suffer in a game because YOU don't like the HART?

[infinite loop]

*Agrees with Silverlord*
Why should people who prefer to make characters without vehicles or *GASP* play solo be made to suffer in a game because YOU don't like the HART?

First of all, I misspoke in an earlier post. I don't want the hart to be removed, just changed so that you can only drop near friendly SOIs. Now I also never said that anyone should be forced to have a vehicle. It's obviously your choice to do wtf you want with your char. But IMO, there is no reason not to have a vehicle. You can't always rely on others for transportation.

[SilverLord]

I like the idea about the 10 armor bike. I see that you should have a vehical but I saccrifice(sp) that for Adv. Med. So I saccrifice(sp) so I must get punished with not being able to get where I want? No.

[infinite loop]

I like the idea about the 10 armor bike. I see that you should have a vehical but I saccrifice(sp) that for Adv. Med. So I saccrifice(sp) so I must get punished with not being able to get where I want? No.

Uhh who's saying you can't get where you want to? But like you said, you made a sacrifice to get something else. Thus, it should be tougher for you to find transport.

[BlackHawk]

First of all, I misspoke in an earlier post. I don't want the hart to be removed, just changed so that you can only drop near friendly SOIs. Now I also never said that anyone should be forced to have a vehicle. It's obviously your choice to do wtf you want with your char. But IMO, there is no reason not to have a vehicle. You can't always rely on others for transportation.
Which, continent-wise, is exactly what the HART is for, self transportation...

As for only dropping near friendly SOIs, yes, I agree. There's simply no reason to be able to drop into the middle of an enemies territory. You'd think that far in the future, theyd have some means of shooting down those enemy pods :rolleyes:

[Ait'al]

The one reason and the oonly reason Planetside is unbalanced is.....

BECAUSE IM NOT IN IT YET!!!! mwhahahahahahahahahahah:lol::rofl::evil: :thumbsup: :borg: :bouncy: :blowup: :cheers: :dance: :father: :sniper: :P~ :nod:

[infinite loop]

Which, continent-wise, is exactly what the HART is for, self transportation...

Yep...wait, now I don't even remember what we were debating lol :p

[Doop]

The HART is fine. Feh, population is the source of unbalance. In PS, the populations jump around all the time. Yesterday they were all about even (33%, 33% and 33%) and then I went on later and it was about NC- 38%, TR- 30%, VS- 29% or something.

[Queensidecastle]

I would love to see the HART removed but there are lots of other good ideas as well. Its current 3 minute timer sucks

[Onizuka-GTO]

Hey I think its a great idea giving every people the ability to drive the ANT! Not only will it solve base refilling problems, it also invalid any excuse people will have when they remove Hart/increase Hart Timer. :p
I can imagine a whole line of ANT's rolling to the frontline and a empty sunderer speeding past...oh wait.....something's wrong with that picture..... :confused: :rolleyes:

[SilverLord]

:) Rbstr, we are debating why PS is unblanced. Thread name silly.

[TheRagingGerbil]

Don't remove it. Make it so people can HART once and hour, possibly even longer inbetween. Bingo you have a way to get to the fight when you first log on but no more people who finish a fight at one base, recall, and drop at the next base down the line because it's faster.

Hey that was my idea! :p

[UserCarnage]

it seems to me that the HART is at least a factor in this apparent unbalanced feel to the game, i like the idea of only allowing people to use the hart every hour or so. but this and many other similar debates will all change when the broadcast gates come in, its another quick way to get to the battle feild. i say give everyone the ant, either increass the HART timer back to its glory (10min plus) or keep it at 3min but a 1 hour cool off. with some funky reason like "the body cant take the stress and G forces used to get into orbit this much, so the empire has limited its use for your safty"

as i see it the dev's originally wants people to work together to get anywhere, thus gals and sundies were put in. i wasn't in beta but why was the HART added? where people saying it takes to long to get anywhere?

if you solo and are pure grunt, you either can use the ant, walk, or hope a ride with someone who has a spare seat. as a occasonal support char my self i dont mind giving random people rides it fills the seats and gives me a purpose for a few min.

i wont comment on pop caps because i havn't played enough latley to really know how they have effected the game.

either way when broadcast gates are added the HART will have to be re looked at.

[Rbstr]

:) Rbstr, we are debating why PS is unblanced. Thread name silly.

Waht are you talking about, if your complaing about my only post 2 pages back, it goes right with what was being said about the hart.

[martyr]

The HART is the equivalent of an NPC

no, what're you talking about? i'm a hart pilot

[Snipefrag]

I liked the Stuff about the HART so much i made a post on the offical forums please check it out and add your 2 cents, Its a very nice idea.

http://boards.station.sony.com/ubb/planetside/Forum8/HTML/034612.html

[noodles]

I just think that the high explosive mine would be more usefull if you could actually place it on a MAX. TR MAX's have the highest vulnarability CE when anchored. I just think it would even it up some between the three empire's.

Also I would like to see adv targeting not only display the hp of ppl and who is in an enemy veh. but should also increase the scope in wich enemies where displayed so that they would show up at a greater distance away from you and also a wider scope from your crosshair's.

P.S. I agree. HART sucks. I like all the idea's listed above. It will be interesting to see what happens.

[Jagd]

So you guys think PS is unbalanced because the HART exists? Absurdity to the max. Ah well, last time I start a thread here...











Dream on, fratboy.