*Sigh* Another patch hurting cloakers...

[Jaged]

Why do yhe devs hate us cloakers? Sure they gave us the grenade clips, but they also halved the size of shotgun ammo boxes. My NC infils inventory is already crammed full. Now I get half as much ammo. :(

[martyr]

so steal a beamer

*snicker*

[Mag]

You're one of those people that I want to reach through the computer and slap...

[martyr]

if i were intent on slapping myself, i certainly wouldn't have to reach through my computer in order to do so... but i think i see what you mean. i'm watching IRC, and you're arguing NC's weapon balance; i think that's what you're saying here too, which is my cue to get the bill and move on.

[Mag]

...damn you and your well-thought out flames. For the record though, it was just about the ammo-patch in general.

[Dharkbayne]

:lol:

[Warborn]

30 rounds shotgun shells is far too good. They're bringing you in-line with the other infiltrators and their weapons.

[Jaged]

It dosen't matter to me anymore. The devs complete lack of attention to cloakers in the ammo patch pissed me off enough that I am going back to my trusty bolt driver / JH combo.

[Incompetent]

Just get a Spiker ffs

[Jaged]

I don't got cc. Not worth 30 bucks IMO.

[Warborn]

It dosen't matter to me anymore. The devs complete lack of attention to cloakers in the ammo patch pissed me off enough that I am going back to my trusty bolt driver / JH combo.

I'm sure cloakers will get enhanced in the next couple patches after this one. Seriously though, with this change, is it really such a big deal? Do you ever even survive long enough to shoot your gun 20 times (assuming the MAG-Scatter has a 4 round clip)? And even then, can't you loot ammo from corpses if need be? That's what I'd do when I played an infiltrator. Harder to find shotgun ammo though I imagine if there aren't any other NC dying around.

[Dyentious]

Don't flame me for bein a newbie.. but I thought cloakers could only carry small weapons like pistols and such.

I've always been shot by cloakers with an amp, or using a knife, not a shotgun

[KeviN]

The NC sidearm is a Mini shotgun, the mag-scatter

[Queensidecastle]

I know this can be argued but to me the Spiker is worth 30 bucks by itself. Considering the massive nerfs the Infiltrators recieve on a regular basis and the bugs that plague us which have been around since beta, the only thing we can do about it is use the Spiker.

I wrote up a huge tutorial For my Outfit website about the Spiker but the simple version is Rexo go down in 4-5 shots, agile/Standard in like 3, and you one-shot cloakers. You also one-shot deployables. It also has splash radius like a Boomer so you can kill people hiding behind trees from base catwalks and such. The really neet thing about this tho is you can do it all beyond 50m. Nothing is more fun in this game than killing a fresh max with about 10 shots from a Spiker and there isnt jack shit he can do about it. I think I will quit there because the Spiker is one of the best kept secrets in the game. No need for the cat to get out of the bag and have it get nerfed and godamn, it needs to be nerfed (hopes Devs arent reading)

[SilverLord]

Thank god they nerfed the shotgun ammo. Think how many shots it takes with a Mag-Scatter to kills a Rexo. About 3-4 right? How many does it take with a Repeater or a AMP? Many more rounds that from a Mag-Scatter. So please stop complaining and deal with what was well overdue.

Edit: ^^ Considering you are point-blank range and the Rexo is not using meds/personal shield and not moving.

[Madcow]

Why do yhe devs hate us cloakers? Sure they gave us the grenade clips, but they also halved the size of shotgun ammo boxes. My NC infils inventory is already crammed full. Now I get half as much ammo. :(

I've only recently started concentrating on an NC infil, and I was stunned at the versatility of inventory space specifically because of the lack of balance with ammunition. If you go out with an AMP, you'd best have 2 boxes of ammo minimum with you because it chews through the ammo so quickly. If you go out with a single box you'll be scavenging backpacks pretty quickly. If you're a hacker, you definitely want an REK with you. If you're a CE, that leaves 1 spot for an ACE. The Repeater fares slightly better, but I'm still more comfortable with 2 boxes of ammo there. The Beamer is a joke and not worth including in the discussion.
Then I start up with an NC infil and find that a single box of ammo is more than adequate. I can go out with the Magscatter, one box of ammo and 3 aces and be a highly effective killing machine. Scavenging shottie shells is far easier than people make it sound (we're NC, just look for the friendly backpacks), but since 30 shells plus the initial clip is ~8 kills I don't have to be in any hurry to find the shells.
NC infil, just like Jackhammer and Sweeper users have had an ammo benefit that the other empires couldn't enjoy. I don't know if the proposed numbers will end up being the correct fix, but I do know that it needed a fix.

[SilverLord]

NC infil, just like Jackhammer and Sweeper users have had an ammo benefit that the other empires couldn't enjoy. I don't know if the proposed numbers will end up being the correct fix, but I do know that it needed a fix.Agreed.

[Doop]

Feh, it's called AMP. AMP > Magscatter. 30 ammo per box, use that instead.

[SilverLord]

MagScatter is much better...you can carry more and kill more effectively.

[EarlyDawn]

Nice patch. I wonder if the Core Combat batteries are going to be like current clips, or rechargable?

[SilverLord]

Guess I missed the Core Combat batteries... Can someone quote it from the site? I'm behind a firewall at school.

[Madcow]

Feh, it's called AMP. AMP > Magscatter. 30 ammo per box, use that instead.

30 ammo per box? It takes 10+ shots to kill somebody if they're not good enough to get out of the way (and if they are, kiss your butt goodbye). Let's say 15 shots as you probably pump a few extra bullets into them because it takes a moment for the game to register their death. The boxes are in fact 50, not 30, so that allows you to kill 3 people, 4 if you include the clip in the gun. You might stretch this out to 5 kills, 6 would be fairly miraculous.
Compare that to the MagScatter and it's 8 deaths using only 1 box of ammo (8 deaths is based on 4+ shots per kill, btw, when you'll normally actually use 3). Compare the TTK, compare the fact that the CoF bloom is so minimal that even if somebody makes an escape move you'll drop them if you're decent and your connection is good. In a lot of case it boils down to personal preference, and obviously I prefer the MagScatter. In matters of inventory space, preference has nothing to do with it. The MagScatter has a huge advantage.

[SilverLord]

Amen. Why can't the NC just admit it? They must be in denial.

[Queensidecastle]

The Magscatter is now vastly superior to all other pistols.... Except the Spiker of course but you have to have the MA cert to use that so I dont see a problem. The Rexo buff is why the Magscatter is the best pistol. It did not lose any TTK at all and still takes the same ammount of ammo it always did to kill troopers.

The Repeater on the other hand takes almost 20 shots at 10m to kill a fresh Rexo (the whole clip). People that dont play an Infiltrator dont have a clue how hard that is to pull off. Point blank you can kill one in 14 shots and amounts to something like 5 seconds. 5 seconds is an eternity when it is trivial for a Rexo to turn around and kill a point blank cloaker.

Killing at point blank is now only for the Melee booster knife and Magscatter (you can still use the AMP but its a lot harder). All other Infiltrators that dont have/use this combo were nerfed. Boomers are not usefull for killing unless you manage to surge into a pack of troopers. If you fill your inventory with them, you are defensless against enemy cloakers. You need a REK so you can hack/jack, you need a pistol for defense (or offense) so that leaves room for only3 boomers max. Now if you take into consideration that you need the Medical Applicator so that you can be effective and not just die whenever splash hits you (or if you want to ninja rez) then that leaves 2 slots for boomers. Add the ever important box of ammo and now you have 1 slot for an ACE. I agree that the shotgun ammo boxs were giving the NC far too much "inventory power" as compared to everyone else, so now the Magscatter has the same nerfed ammo problems that all the other cloakers suffer, but at least you have a useable pistol

[BadAsh]

Amen. Why can't the NC just admit it? They must be in denial.

The problems here are with innocence and ego.

The innocence comes in because no NC player is responsible for the equipment and vehicular superiority they enjoy. They did nothing wrong and someone who did nothing wrong is loathe to accept any blame or responsibility. Not that they should, but that�s another topic.

The ego part is if an NC player admits their equipment and vehicles are superior then they are admitting their earned rank, kill counts, and social status within the game were perhaps not fully earned. This deflates the since of accomplishment and pride in achieving high BR and CR. To admit an unfair advantage would cheapen their accomplishments.

The above two things nag constantly on NC players conscious. Many choose to just remain silent and others are in denial.

[SilverLord]

The problems here are with innocence and ego.

The innocence comes in because no NC player is responsible for the equipment and vehicular superiority they enjoy. They did nothing wrong and someone who did nothing wrong is loathe to accept any blame or responsibility. Not that they should, but that�s another topic.

The ego part is if an NC player admits their equipment and vehicles are superior then they are admitting their earned rank, kill counts, and social status within the game were perhaps not fully earned. This deflates the since of accomplishment and pride in achieving high BR and CR. To admit an unfair advantage would cheapen their accomplishments.

The above two things nag constantly on NC players conscious. Many choose to just remain silent and others are in denial.Good post. :eek:

[Jaged]

BadAsh, I couldn't agree more. I personaly have been a NC long beore beta. I diddn't choose to have the most powerful weapons, and I would perfer not to. Thats partly why I am going back to my tusty common pool Bolt Driver:love:. Sure, I am going to suit up in heavy assult, like I said earlier, but why not make use of that great tool for blasting pesky cloakers who sneek up behind me?

[Rbstr]

Personaly i say some of our equipment is over powered but i don't use any of it cough*Van/JH*cough Reaver, guass, lighting, Bd, and Pheonix. if anyone calls alny of the weapons unfair they should be hung.

I never have realy even had a Magscatter in my inventory, i have something like 2 pistol kills, both AMP. So i can't comment on it

[TheRegurgitator]

I'm gonna be waiting til Core combat prices go down

[martyr]

innocence and ego.

awesome post.

this whole thing applies to every buff/nerf argument ever, as well as so much more

[Jaged]

I never have realy even had a Magscatter in my inventory

You have had on in there every time you respawed. :nod:

[Rbstr]

but i never have my standard on for more than a few seconds

[Acaila]

The AMP has identical damage statistics to the Cycler at point blank range. The ttk is exactly the same, same damage, same RoF. Make an NC infil, spend a week using the Scat Pistol, a week using the AMP. Pure killing power, AMP > Scat, this has always been so, and still is. Only since the whole "everything NC is overpowered" craze has the Scat Pistol become an issue, it is pure sensationalism. You want to know something NC that is overpowered? Guass + rexo, ph34r. Anyone who cares to backup their "Scat Pistol is an overpowered death cannon" statements can send me a /t Acaila on Markov for a bit of AMP vs Scat Pistol fun.

[Rbstr]

Guass over powered, you basicaly calling every weapons in the game, - AV things and pistols overpowered

[Madcow]

Anyone who cares to backup their "Scat Pistol is an overpowered death cannon" statements can send me a /t Acaila on Markov for a bit of AMP vs Scat Pistol fun.

Easy, paranoid. Since not a single person here has said that the pistol is overpowered, or that the pistol is a death cannon you may as well have responded about how angry you were the people were belittling rabid squirrels. It makes for good reading, but facts might help.
I've used the AMP, extensively. I've used the Repeater extensively. I've used the MagScatter extensively. I've used the Beamer until the vomiting began. I personally prefer the MagScatter over all others. The inventory freedom coupled with the ability to use the gun well while moving suits my play style immensely. There is little to no skill involved with the AMP (besides getting to your target). You pull the trigger, they probably die. If they get out of the way quickly, you probably die. With the MagScatter they can make their move and I can still gun them down like dogs. I'm far more effective with it, and I have more fun with it.

[Neon Apocalypse]

guass is pretty deadly compared to a cycler, way more deadly, more deadly than a pulsar too, but it sucks for strafing, its a suppressing fire weapon

[Biohazzard56]

I think the game is balanced but i dont like any of the NC weapons your talking about. I use the sweeper cause i think its far superior to the Jackhammer, and also the ScaterMAX is great. Vanguard is balanced IMO

[SilverLord]

I use the sweeper cause i think its far superior to the Jackhammer
Mmk. Maybe in the cost.

[Warborn]

I use the sweeper cause i think its far superior to the Jackhammer

The Jackhammer is a Sweeper, except with a greater rate of fire, double the clip size, tighter cone of fire, and the ability to shoot three shots at once with secondary fire. It is everything the Sweeper is, but better in every regard. Your opinion of the Sweeper is disconcerting considering your position on this website.

[Queensidecastle]

With the MagScatter they can make their move and I can still gun them down like dogs. I'm far more effective with it, and I have more fun with it.
Precisely

[Pilgrim]

I play an infinltrator for all three empires at one time or another.

For me with my play style I'll take a beamer over the other 3 pistols any day of the week.

It's not as effective as the spiker, but can hit at about the same ranges while not needing a module to get it. The Mag scatter you have to touch someone and hit them with all pellets 4 times... that's 4. if they don't move (ie sniping) that's possible but more likely then not they'll move, whip around and if not kill you at least chase you off.

The reapeater has decent range, but not near the Accuracy at ROF that the beamer has.

I play NC most of the time now, and thus have to use an AMP (with everyone at br 15+ getting close enough to use a magscatter is suicide anyway, everyone has D/L or an interlink FLB making you an easy target) Simply because feathering the trigger you can actually hit with the AMP at 30M or so... not well, but it can be done.

So gimping the magscatter will make the NC inf much worse. To me it's an unforseen nerf in what is an otherwise great patch

[Madcow]

The Mag scatter you have to touch someone and hit them with all pellets 4 times... that's 4. if they don't move (ie sniping) that's possible but more likely then not they'll move, whip around and if not kill you at least chase you off.


Actually, it's 3. If you don't land all pellets on a rexo (likely) it will be 4. Anybody else will be 3 pretty much. They're welcome to whip around, I'll be the guy circle strafing them and hopefully they get a good view while their screen is spinning around afterwards.
Your opinion on the Beamer is amazing, but every weapon has to have it's proponent.

[Majik]

edit - whoops hit button twice actual post below

[Majik]

My biggest problem with using the beamer as a cloaker was the huge neon sign that began flashing over my head saying "WARNING CLOAKER RIGHT HERE!!!!!" Which is why I always tried for the melee knife or boomer kill.

[SilverLord]

Your opinion of the beamer scares me. :scared:

[SilverLord]

Your opinion of the beamer scares me.

[Queensidecastle]

I saw my first enemy cloaker using a Spiker last night. It is not fun being on the recieving end of that puppy. I actually hope this doesnt catch on so I can hold the monopoly :rofl:

As far as the equipment module necessary for the Spikers, here is what I have found:
Infiltrators are usually adv hackers and have AMS. HART into a friendly empire cont lock base next to an active geowarp, Matrix, spawn an AMS and go on down. Deploy next to a redoubt building, go inside and hack a term. Switch to your largest armor and fill up :D MAX suits work great. Go back to the AMS and deconstruct back to the base and fill up your locker. You wont be able to deconstruct back to your AMS so get another vehicle or hoof it back down. So you can only really deconstruct one-way but it doesnt take but about 15min to fill a locker full of Spikers.

I go through about 8-10 Spikers in an evening of play. A full locker lasts me a week and in the off chance you spawn in a base that has an equip mod or that is on the lattice, you can fill up

[GreyFox]

30 Shotgun shots = Lasts longer and kills more then 50 9mm shots. Nuff said. :P

[Revolver]

I'm...I dunno. My poor JH is hungry nowadays, that's all I know. :(

[xmodum]

Hey, im NC, but im not complaining. I think this was way over due, although I am going to miss the ability to stay alive for at least 30 in one life with the Medic/Engi/Deci/JH/ReXo combo and not run out of ammo so fast. But I will dead with it.