Ditch the surge implant?

[Krinsath]

I'm just really curious about how people feel about this issue. For those who either don't play Planetside or don't pay attention, I'll offer the following synopsis.

Surge makes your character run faster, and is an excellent implant for an infantry grunt who needs to cover long distances but lacks the certs for a vehicle. It also gives a slight advantage in combat as you're moving a bit faster than your enemy.

The problem is that the PS engine does not handle surging well, especially indoors around stairs and other inclines. Combine this with the powerful HA weapons and the fact that if your computer doesn't put this person where they belong correctly, you can't hit them and you have a great number of frustrated players. It's not that Surge is an unbeatable implant, it's just that PS handles it so poorly that the game basically gives these people a leg up. Sure, there are various tactics for dealing with it and each has their drawbacks and advantages.

I don't have a problem with the concept of Surge, I just dislike the fact that the game is bugged and it gives them an advantage that they're not meant to have. I just wanted to see what other people thought of the situation.

Feel free to post your reasonings/opinions, but as always...keep the flames to a minimum.

[Queensidecastle]

I find the constant braindead solutions to Surge really annoying. Stamina drain is Already the limiter placed on surge. Fix that and problem solved. Surge doesnt need to be fucking taken out, it doesnt need to be nerfed where you cant use a weapon, or any of that stupid nonsense. Tweak stamina the way it needs to be and the issue is resolved

[Veteran]

It makes the game look amateurish when you show some friends and they see Mr. Warpy teleporting like a Translocator-user in Unreal.

Client-Side Hit-Detection plus Surge equals trouble.

[Krinsath]

I find the constant braindead solutions to Surge really annoying. Stamina drain is Already the limiter placed on surge. Fix that and problem solved. Surge doesnt need to be fucking taken out, it doesnt need to be nerfed where you cant use a weapon, or any of that stupid nonsense. Tweak stamina the way it needs to be and the issue is resolved

I believe the primary complaint people have is the warping issues that Surge contributes to as how can you hit that which is not where it's supposed to be? Stamina drain does nothing to address that unless you make it so rapid and extreme that Surge becomes worthless...and at that point, why keep it?

As I said initially, I have no problems with Surge itself, but if the Devs cannot fix it easily, why leave such an obvious blackeye on the face of PS? At least until such time as it has been corrected...it's not like there are no other implants to choose from...

[Queensidecastle]

Nobody complains about warping Rexos. Now why is that? You would propose a wholesale nerf to the surge implant impacting all the players in Rexo who dont warp?. What about Infiltrators? no one complains about them warping. Agiles and Standards are the only ones warping. So why dont we just deal with that problem. Also warping is heavily dependant on your own PC/connection. Just because someone has shit for a computer doesnt mean they get to nerf everyone else's gameplay as a result. I rarely see a warp and when I do, I know the person did it on purpose and it is not hard to compensate for. The Devs are working on the warp problem. I have faith that they will nail it down at some point. In the meantime surgile warpers are not that hard to kill and are at an even further dissadvantage because of the Rexo buff. Its really not that much of a problem anymore.

[Warborn]

I'd like to see the ability to use Surge while holding a weapon removed. I really dislike how combat at close ranges involves an elaborate spinning dance between infantry with bullets flying every which way. It's stupid. Is it completely and utterly terrible? No. Are Surgiles or surgers in general invincible? No. But I prefer the alternative to what we have now. Making Surge a getaway implant, or a general sprinting implant, rather than the most important combat implant in the game, especially when used with Agile armor, would be more enjoyable.

[Krinsath]

Nobody complains about warping Rexos. Now why is that? You would propose a wholesale nerf to the surge implant impacting all the players in Rexo who dont warp?. What about Infiltrators? no one complains about them warping. Agiles and Standards are the only ones warping. So why dont we just deal with that problem. Also warping is heavily dependant on your own PC/connection. Just because someone has shit for a computer doesnt mean they get to nerf everyone else's gameplay as a result. I rarely see a warp and when I do, I know the person did it on purpose and it is not hard to compensate for. The Devs are working on the warp problem. I have faith that they will nail it down at some point. In the meantime surgile warpers are not that hard to kill and are at an even further dissadvantage because of the Rexo buff. Its really not that much of a problem anymore.

On flat level ground, that's probably quite true. Surging up and down stairs, like there are in every base and tower, and even the Rexos will warp.

How, exactly, would someone tell if an infiltrator is surge warping? If they're friendly, you probably aren't paying attention to them. If they're enemy, then they're probably invisible and their weapons really aren't powerful enough to do the kind of damage that those with rifle slots can inflict. Sure, the Mag-Scatter hurts, but dodge the bulk of one of the shots and they're toast...or, tap them gently with the side of a vehicle and watch them keel over.

Warping is not just keyed off of what machine you have, just like lag is not tied to your personal machine. Mine, while not high-end, is a far cry from crap (1.8GHz, 1GB DDR RAM, GeForce4 Ti4600, 3 HDs: System, Paging, PS, cable) and I encounter warping quite frequently in the conditions described above. Since the game centers around base and tower caps, and they both have the conditions that are exploitable by this implant, it does become a large issue.

The Rexo buff did not solve the problem, it just made it so that it is no longer a sure thing on which way the fight is going to go. Depending on other conditions though (environment, number of people around, how laggy the SOE servers feel like being that day), you can quickly get back to the "no chance in hell" situation of before.

I too have faith that the devs will eventually fix it, but if this exploit is driving players away (and it is...both new and old) then it needed to be fixed months ago when the problem was first diagnosed, not at some hazy point in the future when they figure out the cause (or causes...meaning it will take as long as the door bugs to be fixed...and that was the better part of three months). Damage has probably already been done to the playerbase on that front though, so it's a wash on which way to go.

[Fenrys]

I find the constant braindead solutions to Surge really annoying. Stamina drain is Already the limiter placed on surge. Fix that and problem solved. Surge doesnt need to be fucking taken out, it doesnt need to be nerfed where you cant use a weapon, or any of that stupid nonsense. Tweak stamina the way it needs to be and the issue is resolved




But then you could not cover long distances. The old problem is solved, but in doing so you've introduced another one.

IMO extra speed is too powerfull in any FPS and the Surge implant is doomed to always be overpowered or removed.

[Veteran]

Surge is due to be chased around by a peasant militia with torches and pitchforks. It's been screwing the game up for too long.

[Queensidecastle]

Thats just not a good enough argument when the result is a massive nerf to multitudes of people that are not even affected by it. I always could and still can kill someone warping or otherwise so I think the argument is blown way out of proportion. Yeah its not fun to be killed by someone moving 2x faster than you before you can even see them, but that is nothing that tweaking stamina down to where they can surge only for 10 seconds or so couldnt fix. Instead of trying to see what would happen if you drained out stamina for a 10 second Surge or so, You would argue for it to be removed completely, or not allow someone to use a weapon. Ridiculous and draconian proposals to an annoying issue at best

[Happy lil Elf]

Best answer that I see is not to remove the ability to hold or fire a weapon while surging but to fuck the CoF of any weapon held while surging. It makes at least a little sense from a logical standpoint and would certainly help cut into the main problem of surge, that being that people run around with it on killing people who can't fight back because of the warping. If the surge monkies can't hit anything while surging anymore, maybe they'll stop doing it but even if they're too dense to stop they'll at least become much less annoying.

[Krinsath]

Thats just not a good enough argument when the result is a massive nerf to multitudes of people that are not even affected by it. I always could and still can kill someone warping or otherwise so I think the argument is blown way out of proportion.

The issue is not "can they be killed?", the issue is "should they be able to gain such an advantage when that is not the purpose of the implant?" If the purpose of surge was to make you appear randomly all over the screen, then at least it's doing what it's supposed to. It's purpose is to make you run faster, not warp. The problem isn't with surge so much as the devs inability to track down the problems in the engine that surge aggravates.

Yeah its not fun to be killed by someone moving 2x faster than you before you can even see them, but that is nothing that tweaking stamina down to where they can surge only for 10 seconds or so couldnt fix.

1) Not fun = fewer players. Fewer players = less income for SOE. Less income for SOE = no more PS. Sucky chain reaction...but it applies to any serious bug, not just this particular one.

2) Tweaking the stamina will not solve the problem. The crux of the problem exists in the engine itself, Surge is just the catalyst to a string of bad circumstances. Is this Surge's fault? No, but if it's causing problems then something needs to be done. Removing it until the code has been fixed (i.e. - not on a permanent basis, unless it proves to be unfixable in which case it should be removed anyway) will be an inconvenience to be sure, but I'd rather be inconvenienced than to find out that so many people have left PS that it's no longer a viable project.

Instead of trying to see what would happen if you drained out stamina for a 10 second Surge or so, You would argue for it to be removed completely, or not allow someone to use a weapon. Ridiculous and draconian proposals to an annoying issue at best

Draconian? Perhaps...but that is do to the fact that the ridiculous part is that the problem has gone on for as long as it has. This is an issue that's existed in some form since beta, and there's been nothing done to successfully fix it. Imagine if your car's brakes randomly wouldn't kick in for a few seconds...would you say "oh...well, I'll just try and adjust to my driving style to fit my brakes and hope that it doesn't get worse" or would you take it to the mechanic and say "fix this and I'll find some other way around until it's done"? Accurate placement of enemy soldiers is no less critical to PS than brakes are to a car.

Sure, Surge adds an interesting dynamic to the game, but until it can do so without negatively impacting the game like it is currently, maybe it'd be something PS would be better off without for a time.

[BadAsh]

I�ve ditched surge out of my standard implant build. I�ve gotten used to not fighting with surge and I don�t miss it. Rarely I�ll see an enemy infiltrator zoom past me and I can�t catch him because I can�t surge anymore. But, that is a rare frustration. My point is that the game plays just fine without it surge, so it�s not needed. Since the physics engine simply can�t handle surge speeds my vote is for removal. This will cause some complaints at first, but in a brief amount of time surge won�t be missed.

[Queensidecastle]

I dont know why I keep arguing with you. Your ideas are illogical and dont properly address the real issue. Fortunatly the Devs arent going to do as you propose because it would be foolish. Its really too bad that you are suffering from so many Lag warps that you cant play the game but thats not my problem. Maybe you should consider analyzing your internet connection or perhaps your PC because myself nor anyone I know has warp problems as you have described them.

[TheN00b]

Queenside, not everyone can afford or wants to waste money on a top-of-the-line computer, which is really what is needed to fight Surgiles.

[Gigabein]

Maybe you should consider analyzing your internet connection or perhaps your PC because myself nor anyone I know has warp problems as you have described them.

:huh:

Must... resist... urge... to... kill!

[BadAsh]

I dont know why I keep arguing with you. Your ideas are illogical and dont properly address the real issue. Fortunatly the Devs arent going to do as you propose because it would be foolish. Its really too bad that you are suffering from so many Lag warps that you cant play the game but thats not my problem. Maybe you should consider analyzing your internet connection or perhaps your PC because myself nor anyone I know has warp problems as you have described them.

QSC,

Perhaps I�m missing something here but Krinsath�s argument has been very well thought out and reasonable. The counter solution you provided, the stamina drain adjustment, is not addressing what Krinsath is referring to. So increasing stamina drain on surge users negates the warping problem how? Your suggestion of 10 seconds of surge would be plenty of time to surge warp and get an easy kill.

If the problem were long distance surging a increased stamina drain would be the solution. But, the problem discussed here is the surge warping issue and the stamina drain increase you suggest is not a viable solution for that problem.

[Veteran]

I've played this game on multiple platforms and I see warping all the time. Different internet speeds, too.

It's not like the Loch Ness Monster. Warping exists.

[Krinsath]

I dont know why I keep arguing with you. Your ideas are illogical and dont properly address the real issue. Fortunatly the Devs arent going to do as you propose because it would be foolish. Its really too bad that you are suffering from so many Lag warps that you cant play the game but thats not my problem. Maybe you should consider analyzing your internet connection or perhaps your PC because myself nor anyone I know has warp problems as you have described them.

Illogical? Item A causes problem X. Problem X remains unresolved for extended periods of time, harming the overall project. Remove/modify Item A so that it no longer causes harm to the project...seems like pretty standard logic. I have yet to see you provide one suggestion that fixes the main problem with surge (the warping) without introducing even more (making the implant useless for those who only use it as a travel aide while still allowing it to be exploited, albeit in a much more limited fashion). So please, if you wish to discuss someone's ideas not properly addressing a problem, make sure you provide a good illustration of something that does.

Back to the logic argument, a shirt causes me to itch, which keeps me from working as effectively as I could as I spend so much time scratching. By your reasoning, it is illogical to change my shirt to get my performance back to where it should be. It goes straight back to "doctor doctor! It hurts when I do this!"...the answer is "Don't do that". Well, Surge is hurting PS. While the vote numbers are too low for anything conclusive, leaving surge alone is in the clear minority of opinion.

The Devs aren't doing anything because as said earlier, everyone already thinks they screwed up by not fixing it already, so why make those people who are happily exploiting upset by taking away their shiny toy? The damage has already been done, just roll with it and maybe it'll get fixed along the way.

The issue with warping on stairs has been a known problem for a long time. It can even affect people who are not surging if they get moving fast enough (or jump). I realize it's easier to hide behind the idea that someone else's machine or connection is inferior than to admit that the Surge implant needs to have some serious work done to it, but there are too many people saying that Surge is broken to just shrug and go "oh well".

It's also easy to adopt the elitist attitude of "well, you should get a better machine" but that's the exact attitude that will ensure that you don't have anyone to play PS with anymore. We're trying to analyze what is best for the game, and leaving in a feature that causes such frustrations to players and evidently (on the data gathered so far...again, far too small of a sample to be conclusive) has more than 2/3s saying that *something* needs to be done to it says quite clearly to me that leaving it in its current state is not the smartest idea.

Doesn't matter if YOU see the problem. That someone else sees the problem (and I'm sure there are people for whom surge made this game unplayable) should be enough to look into it. That this has been brought to the Devs attention time after time after time indicates that this is more than an isolated bug. It's a bug, and what's worse, it's an exploitable bug. I can't blame the implant, but leaving something in that causes problems is foolish. You don't leave cancer in your body, even if it is benign overall (Please note that is an illustrative metaphor...it is not meant to imply in any way that Surge or those who use it are a cancer).

[dscytherulez]

Best answer that I see is not to remove the ability to hold or fire a weapon while surging but to fuck the CoF of any weapon held while surging. It makes at least a little sense from a logical standpoint and would certainly help cut into the main problem of surge, that being that people run around with it on killing people who can't fight back because of the warping. If the surge monkies can't hit anything while surging anymore, maybe they'll stop doing it but even if they're too dense to stop they'll at least become much less annoying.

I myself love surge. I don't even use it with agile, I use it with my rexo to get places and to close gaps. Making it holster your weapon wouldn't be to good if you use it to get closer to your enemy because you have a shotgun.

I see Happy's solution the best.

[Krinsath]

The only problem I see with Happy's idea is that if you're moving faster than your target, it isn't that hard to get close. CoF doesn't mean much at less than 5 meters. Sure, it'd help, but I don't know that it'd resolve anything. I still think the solution is to fix the PS engine so that warping doesn't occur (as I feel that's the only thing about Surge that's unbalancing), but evidently I'm in the minority.

[Queensidecastle]

I bet you 50 dollars that surge doesnt get taken out. Care to take it Krinsath?

I still think the solution is to fix the PS engine so that warping doesn't occur (as I feel that's the only thing about Surge that's unbalancing), but evidently I'm in the minority
Sounds good to me. Removing Surge however is a dumb idea

[Veteran]

Even if someone has their weapon auto-holstered while they Surge, they are going to warp up and down stairs enough to be nearly unkillable by a lot of players.

Surge stinks. I think it should be removed and simultaneously replaced by a half-dozen new implants. New implants are overdue anyhow.

[Krinsath]

You misunderstand. I'm not calling for the wholesale removal of Surge. I'm asking if Surge should be allowed to continue in it's current state when we have no word of when (if ever) it will be fixed. Giving it a temporary break is extreme, but also makes sure the Dev team actually works on it rather than other ideas.

Content is great, but little to no gameplay exploits > new Content. After all, who cares if the place looks pretty if it's built in the middle of a landfill?

With the pressure the Devs would be under to get that back in, I'd bet you'd see the problems wrapped up pretty damn quick (again, assuming they can be...and if they can't, the Devs would be *insanely* foolish to leave an unfixable exploit in the game)...and then the surgers could use their implant in peace without having to be harassed constantly.

[Ait'al]

Isnt the surging a user side problem. Namely your undersized comps trying to run it. I see all the time people with large enough comps saying its not jumping. If im remembering correctly. isnt this mainly and issue with the entire player base not haveing enough resources to play the game. I mean obviously if it had been aproblem on the comps they tested it out on and it always jumped no matter what your comp is like then it wouldnt be in the game. So it seems to me the only logical answers is it IS all player based and people need to realize there playing with less of a comp than the game really requires and people need to get better comps to play and not try to get rid of something, that if im right, has only to do with the who knows what percentage of people playing who dont have the hardware to do it. So why change it then if it does work if like it should. Like i said i dont see how it could be any other way cause if it did that on sufficient systems then it wouldnt have gotten in the game.

If all of that is true it doesnt seem fair to do something to the game because a bunch of people trying to play a game they arent actualy capable of playing with the comps they have. Its not fair to those who could play it right. There should always be considerations on the players end to waht is there fault and what it the actual game.

You bring down a part of a game because its to advanced for your comp bacause it wil degrade a game. Its to precious a thing to have a game actualy advanced enough to have a problem like that.IMO Especialy with the last 5-10 years of nothing but slowly advancing game design.

[Krinsath]

It's actually a problem with the code in game and the way it predicts where you are going (location prediction being an almost required part of functional Internet gaming). It does a decent job in 2 dimensions, but with the 3rd it really gets thrown off the faster you're moving.

However, just for the sake of argument...the *recommended* specs from Sony compared to mine:

Windows� 98/2000/ME/XP (XP Pro)
Pentium� III 1.6 GHz or greater (1.8 P4)
512 MB RAM (1GB DDR RAM)
Direct3D compliant video card with 64MB+ RAM (Compliant card with 128MB RAM)
DirectX 8.1 compatible sound card (Sound Blaster)
Broadband Internet connection (Cable, average download speed of 170KB/s, average PS ping in the 90-120ms range)
8X speed CD-ROM (DVD-ROM)
3.5 GB hard drive space (Combined total of 175GBs HD space)
DirectX 8.1 or greater (9.0b)

So, against the *recommended* (meaning "will run well") specs...my computer exceeds every single one of them and I still see the issue. Sure, mine is more isolated than some out there, but I still see it and it's still distracting. Just to refute the idea that "oh, they tested it out on these computers and it worked fine"...they *know* there's a problem, they just don't know how to fix it.

[Ait'al]

But what are the real specs for the game. Obviously they fucked them up a bit. What stats would get rid of hte problem, and others in the game, if any do?

Edit: It is luckily about to to get cheaper to get 2 gigs and up.

I going with, from what i know(or dont) about it then with, Find a way to fix the damn thing now! 8)

[Krinsath]

Who knows? I think the 512MB RAM is complete bunk, but that's another issue entirely. The major issue for the Devs is that they cannot be so cavalier about who can play the game. They have to make this work for that guy sitting at the minimum specs (well, not the biggest battles, but at least marginally) or else they're hamstringing themselves in the long run. They *need* people to play this game, it's their job but most people are not going to shell out $2000+ for a new computer to play a $50 game. Fewer people = smaller battles and less money = sucky PS. I'd personally like to see this have the longevity of EQ, but if they don't get after these bugs faster, I don't know if it will survive the release of HL2...granted, at the rate that's going PS will be around until 2027 ;)

[SilverLord]

Ok...I didn't read this thread but this is my current position on the topic. While I use surge for my grunt needs...It seems that the only time when a surger warps is on stairs or jumping. I see this as the current problem because I see many people outdoors running and surging and warping one bit but if they go into a tower battle, hello warp bug. I think they need to worry about why it warps on the stairs and or jumping.

[Rbstr]

I don't have probemls whit warping, and without surge lots of things would be a pain, liek running someplace with Rexo because i don't have a rexo accesible vech.

I think the surg should only be disable when holding any large size weapon, HA, AV, Deci, BD, maybee a few more that i can't think of(the ones that take up a whole holster and don't leave any room)

[Ait'al]

Wouldnt it be more logical to just increase stamina drain and or speed or something then? For those weapons that is.

[Gigabein]

Asking your entire customer base to upgrade to top-end computers so that people can continue to use a single implant... does that strike anyone else as less than reasonable?

[Ait'al]

NO, games come out as they are. Some bigger some smaller. Its what makes them what thye are. And i personally love that a game could finally come out again that pushes the limits. Its unreasonable for the players, in my opinion, not to realize there own computer stats and expect everything to be lowerd to they can play it. I just think everyone should be patient and wait for it to be easier to play if there are issues concerining that. Im guessing this game is going for long run, so that shouldnt necesarily be a problem. Especialy since its a pay game.

[Happy lil Elf]

Krin, I suggest you don't try to have an reasonalbe debate with Oxo. While it is possible to do sometimes, you a have better chance of shitting diamonds the next time you're on the throne.

[Ait'al]

Who are you refering to when you say Oxo?

[SilverLord]

Hah, Ait...do you really think SOE is going to fix the warp bug anytime soon?? I highly doubt it.

[Ait'al]

Im just saying if they had a brain in there head. 8)

[SilverLord]

I dunno...it's only on the stairs i'm telling you. Or a slight incline of some sort. Boom, warp.

[Ait'al]

Atleast you cant shoot someone in the ass and make them pop up in the air then.

[Rbstr]

Asking your entire customer base to upgrade to top-end computers so that people can continue to use a single implant... does that strike anyone else as less than reasonable?

My computer better not be called top end. its a fucking celeron.

[SilverLord]

My computer better not be called top end. its a fucking celeron.Heh. Intel Pentium 4 1.8. Weak. I feel underpriveledged(sp).

[MilitantB0B]

I'd like to see the ability to use Surge while holding a weapon removed. I really dislike how combat at close ranges involves an elaborate spinning dance between infantry with bullets flying every which way. It's stupid. Is it completely and utterly terrible? No. Are Surgiles or surgers in general invincible? No. But I prefer the alternative to what we have now. Making Surge a getaway implant, or a general sprinting implant, rather than the most important combat implant in the game, especially when used with Agile armor, would be more enjoyable.
:nod:

[Hamma]

I concur with Warborn on this one.

[Black]

I concur with Warborn on this one.

[MrCovertMan]

removing surge = destruction of the infiltrator community (which is already a minority for obvious reasons)
Removing ability to hold weapon while surging = severe drop to 0.000000000000000001% of the planetside community being infiltrators.
My solution: No more jumping while surging (come on if ur running that fast and jump i'd think u'd break your damn leg when u land)
If your running at full speed down the stairs to combat, your weight + armor weight + weapon weight + invventory weight = a whole lot of weight on a person running maybe 30mph and jumping down a flight of stairs with a weapon in their hands so they can't really maintain much balance or land with much grace. if surge is activated people should take 5x more falling damage then normal

Edit: before any1 even says anything i know the physics of PS are f-ed up but i think we could get away with alil real world stuff on the surge issue

[Dharkbayne]

How about this, when surging, only small arms. I.e. Grenades, pistols, ACE, knife, but nothing else. That would stop surgile, but inf's would still be able to hold weps while surging.

[Black]

How about this, when surging, only small arms. I.e. Grenades, pistols, ACE, knife, but nothing else. That would stop surgile, but inf's would still be able to hold weps while surging.
thats also a good idea

[Neon Apocalypse]

leave it, i find it fine killing NC people in agile, its quite easy actually, you just get em from afar, and if they get close use a lasher, plus the rexo buff helped solve the problem

[Destroyeron]

I'm just really curious about how people feel about this issue. For those who either don't play Planetside or don't pay attention, I'll offer the following synopsis.



Chances are if someones reading this forum, they play Planetside. :P~

[SilverLord]

Chances are if someones reading this forum, they play Planetside. :P~You'd be suprised Destroyeron.

[Happy lil Elf]

Who are you refering to when you say Oxo?
Look at the posts by QueenSideCastle. Then look at his character names. I know him from way back. Mangina then, mangina now /shrug

[321]

Don't touch my surge.

[SilverLord]

Edit: before any1 even says anything i know the physics of PS are f-ed up but i think we could get away with alil real world stuff on the surge issueWe could...but then the whole physics engine would have to be redone just for an implant.

[Krinsath]

We could...but then the whole physics engine would have to be redone just for an implant.

I'm thinking more and more that the problem in the prediction engine (or whatever the correct technical term is) won't be easily fixed...otherwise they would have been already. That's the only thing that has me concerned, that the Devs will just shrug and leave in something that breaks the game rather than put some sort of limiter (not going to specify what kind of limiter...) to avoid angering those who use surge.

Really wish they would open up a poll like this on a SOE site to get how the playerbase really feels about the issue, because so far it seems that the clear majority opinion is that surge needs to be changed but this is such a small fraction of the PS base, I don't think it's entirely fair to draw conclusions from this. Still, the results say to me that SOE should look into this matter a bit further.

[infinite loop]

Surge is far too useful to simply throw out altogether. I really don't have a problem with surgiles. Honestly, I see a warper maybe once an hour. It sucks, but I deal with it. I'd rather give the devs a chance to continue trying to fix warping than just change or remove surge. It's too good.

[Madcow]

The should disable jumping while surging. There are times where this would suck as a surger, but the fact that it will keep morons from exploiting a known bug is more of a positive than the resulting negative.

[Queensidecastle]

The should disable jumping while surging.
That is the only acceptable nerf I have seen proposed yet on this whole thread.

I still say tweaking surge to take so much stamina that it drains in 10 seconds when Heavy assault is equiped is by far the best option. The surgiles could still kill people but prolly only 1 person at a time and there would be no huge nerfs to the game or to the people not affected.

[infinite loop]

The should disable jumping while surging. There are times where this would suck as a surger, but the fact that it will keep morons from exploiting a known bug is more of a positive than the resulting negative.

It's wrong to assume that there is a 1-to-1 relationship between surge jumping and warping. I've seen plenty of warping that didn't involve jumping, and I've seen jumping that didn't involve warping. They need to really put more resources and time into the warping bug, I don't understand why it's not a top priority.

[Queensidecastle]

I have never seen a warp that didnt involve the person jumping.

[Madcow]

It's wrong to assume that there is a 1-to-1 relationship between surge jumping and warping. I've seen plenty of warping that didn't involve jumping, and I've seen jumping that didn't involve warping. They need to really put more resources and time into the warping bug, I don't understand why it's not a top priority.

That's not an assumption I'm making, actually. The assumption that I'm making is that the easiest exploit for the warp bug is the use of jumping, and that removing the ability to jump while surging will eliminate nearly all of the people purposely exploiting that. I've seen warping without jumping and I've seen jumping without warping as well, but I can live with inadvertant warping a lot easier than I can live with dying to some petty tool who needed to exploit a bug to kill me.
It would be nice if they fixed the warping bug, but at this point I honestly doubt their ability to do so. If they can't fix it, and removal of surge is out of the question, why not make it far more difficult to exploit the bug? It seems like an easy, logical fix.

[Krinsath]

That's not an assumption I'm making, actually. The assumption that I'm making is that the easiest exploit for the warp bug is the use of jumping, and that removing the ability to jump while surging will eliminate nearly all of the people purposely exploiting that. I've seen warping without jumping and I've seen jumping without warping as well, but I can live with inadvertant warping a lot easier than I can live with dying to some petty tool who needed to exploit a bug to kill me.
It would be nice if they fixed the warping bug, but at this point I honestly doubt their ability to do so. If they can't fix it, and removal of surge is out of the question, why not make it far more difficult to exploit the bug? It seems like an easy, logical fix.

I'd almost have to see it in action to determine if it'd work. The stairs (where the problems with surgiles run rampant) may or may not make that a real solution. I'm trying to remember if surge gets them going fast enough down stairs that they need to jump to start warping or not. A reasonable idea, to be sure, but one that would actually have to be done before it's effects could be seen.

That is the only acceptable nerf I have seen proposed yet on this whole thread.

In all fairness, my idea was simply to remove surge for the amount of time it takes to actually fix it. That entails no actual nerf, as after fixing the warping issues that are not directly surge's fault, the implant remains unchanged. I don't think warping makes them any harder to kill when you can hit them, it's that whole "hitting someone the game thinks is in the wall" problem. The only problem with that idea is I don't think it'd reduce the frustration levels *now*...had they thought of this back in early December (or whenever it became apparent that their warp fixes hadn't solved the problem completely), then they could have avoided a lot of issues. I'll concede that currently though, it may not be the best course of action. They need to do *something* however....

[2mthsTheSniper]

I'm with BadAsh on this and frankly find the main thrust in QSC's posts to be one of aggression.

If there is something that causes a significant number of people a problem then it's generally accepted that something should be done. If it can't be fixed, then a work round in the mean time would seem sensible. As has already been said, in other walks of life prolonged periods of poor or troubled performance would not be tolerated, why should it be different here.

If you took away all the players that don't have top line PCs (and I'm one of them) I really don't think you'd have enough left for a decent game. The person who introduced me to PS has a hand built machine and has invested in the PS + CC, but hardly plays because the game is just too full of imbalances - of which this is an example.