An Idea.

[Kaikou]

This is just something I came up with while typing in another forum...

Make use of the vast world around the bases. 100% of the battles take place in/around the bases and it wastes all that open space out there. Make territories based on nodes or something that empires can claim on continents. It'd produce a "mini continent lock" where only a portion of the continent gets locked so other empires can't HART into those areas. That way there'd be a lot more areas for fights to take place other than in bases.

Get 100 or so nodes on each continent that you can claim (all in which would have their own lattice structure to them) and once you have a complete lattice (be it from one coast to another coast, a circular shape in the middle of nowhere, anything) then your empire locks that portion of the continent off. Each node could have a 5 minute hack timer, and possibly a small SOI that air and possibly ground vehicles can't enter, making it less easy for the attackers to simply drop a squad directly on top of the node and hack it or swarm 20 vanguards. There could even be a twist where each lattice node is connected to a base, and if your empire gains control of that base, all the nodes connected to it change to your empire. They are still hackable by other empires but it'd give you immediate ownership of them upon the base being taken.

Also, bases within the territory of one empire would not be hackable unless that territory was opened by taking some nodes to break their links. This would require people to move into the forests and such to take nodes before hitting the base itself. If a base is already hacked, and the opposing empire manages to get all of the nodes around the base under their control, putting the base into their territory, the hack would not be stopped, hence the bases would still be major targets.

There would be a ton of combinations to the lattice nodes because they'd all each be connected to say...10 other nodes. Depending on how much territory you'd own, you would get certain bonuses. Health, armor, stamina, maybe a somewhat weak (but still makes a difference) personal shield, similar to the implant, but of course not as effective as the implant.

I think that'd be a really good way to spread battles out over the entire continent and make use of all that space. It would also help with lag because zergs would HAVE to split up. As is there is usually ONE (maybe 2) targets at most at a time for a zerg to work with. With nodes it would increase vital targets to 10 or more, making one big clump of people useless.

What do you think?

[Hayoo]

Nice ideas. I'm all for having troops spread out into the landscape a bit more. And I'm definately all for restricting those annoying backyard HART drops.

Spec Ops should be using current transports in sneaky ways than a quick plop, drop, and recall. From what I gather about your ideas, a team would have to go deep into enemy territory conventionally, and then capture a node or region to allow those HART drops to occur.

This kind of thing is what my Urban Areas/Tech Levels idea covers. Scattered about the continent at various locations along roads and bridges, in forests and passes are gatherings of 3-5 (one and two-story) buildings. 3 of the buildings have definte functions. I won't go into them all here because I don't want to hijack the thread, but I will mention the Admin building which acts like your Node. Whoever captures it controls or "dominates" the town and the immediate surrounding territory, allowing friendly HART pods to drop in it and for AMSs to recieve unlimited supplies. Capturing more mini-territories in the enemy's flank can disrupt their supply lines and lanes of access.

The ideas may be offereing different solutions but they are trying to achieve the same thing: establish front lines, force use of convential transport, and utilize the game terrain more (which is going to waste).

Oh, and here are some old old graphics I did last year that was following along the "nodes" idea until I thought up urban areas.

Concept Graphic #1 (http://www.starwarspark.com/newlattice.jpg)
Concept Graphic #2 (http://www.starwarspark.com/newlattice2.jpg)

Thumbs up on the ideas, man. :)

[Scorched_earth]

gd idea! But it wont happen, knowing the devs! If it did would take em a few years

[ORANGE]

So like there would be an actual front line instead of just randomly running all over the place??

[Hayoo]

So like there would be an actual front line instead of just randomly running all over the place??

Bingo.

Deep down, I believe this is what everyone truly wants.

[Angel_of_Death]

Actually, there's a front line now, and if that idea were brought in to the game, it would be more little battles all over the place, the opposite of a front line.

I like the idea though, but I like the lattice is now. I like bigger battles (then again, the idea would also mean more teamwork).

[Warborn]

gd idea! But it wont happen, knowing the devs! If it did would take em a few years

They were pretty quick about getting the ammo changes on Test. I dunno, after playing with them during the Beta I like to think the best about the devs. I really do think they're working at full speed trying to get things running better, and that's about all you can ask.

[UncleDynamite]

There was an idea like this a long time ago that was popularly called Realm of Influence (ROI). Basically, each base controlled a certain territory, so imagine a continent composed of many different, well, "states" for the lack of a better word. Basically, it was a way to create a frontline by awarding benefits (forgot what they were specifically) to soldiers fighting in territories adjacent to enemy territories. There were also supply depots and outposts spread around in order to get more people to use the vast environment outside bases.

Anyway, I think this idea is great. The "Mini-Continent Locks" is a superb idea, I would love to see it implemented. For one, it'll give the Galaxy the ability to drop soliders behind enemy lines where the HART could not. I agree with Angel that this would make a whole bunch of little fights, but I think that'll really enhance gameplay. For one, I think a lot of players would enjoy not having to join zergs all the time, and it'll also open up more opportunities for tactics: you'll have several squads and platoons fighting out over a string of important targets, and if one of the platoon leads broadcasts for reinforcements, it'll actually mean something. While it's pretty much impossible to turn back a zerg, smaller fights will open up opportunities where careful placement of troops can actually affect the outcome of a battle significantly.

[Hayoo]

Actually, there's a front line now, and if that idea were brought in to the game, it would be more little battles all over the place, the opposite of a front line.

I like the idea though, but I like the lattice is now. I like bigger battles (then again, the idea would also mean more teamwork).

In my opinion, there are only front points at the moment. An actual front line is exactly as you describe: many battles, some small yes, but also big pushes against many points along general lines of advance. A front protects your rear, protects your supply lines, protects your support troops. We have no such thing. Sure you can drop a gen, but does that prevent the "frontline" base from spitting out weapons and equpiment. Nope. So much for outflanking lines of supply. What we have gentlemen is siege warfare, plain and simple. While this isn't all that bad, seeing as it concentrates a heck of a lot of defenders and attackers into one place, it is not the same as the mobile warfare we like to envision having with Planetside.

I remember hearing there were debates in Beta over Zones or Realms of Influence as opposed to a Lattice. After the game came out I heard these debates again for myself. Since that time I have come to the conclusion that we should have both. The lattice tells the zerg where to go and the tactical-minded players capture the territories to advance the battle line and outflank the enemy's supply lines. Who knows if something like this is possible today. But I know I would like it very much.

-------------------
Concept graphic - part of tech levels/urban areas (http://boards.station.sony.com/ubb/planetside/Forum10/HTML/007604.html) idea. In this older image the regions are cirlces but I have since evolved it to more of a territorial area like what Kaikou describes. Each circle represents a node or urban area that controls a region. Capturing a region allows AMSs to have unlimited equipment. Stray out of that zone and you have a finite source that must be resupplied with NTU or run dry. To prevent ninja-hacks of territory, if the region is not adjacent to your own, you have to recapture it every 8 or 10 minutes or it returns to enemy control. Now if you add to that mini-locks to prevent HART drops...Presto! You have fronts with base sieges and also small to large fights all along a general battle line across the continent, maybe even fierce battles over that last patch of region connecting to your base that lets you have unlimited AMS supply beyond the walls. :) Sounds juicy to me.

http://www.jeffmcdowall.com/planetside/images/cyssorsupply.jpg

[Kaikou]

I think the main thing this idea would fix would be the massive amounts of land out there that are NEVER used. Why make continents so big if we're only going to use 20 or so percent of it?

[Dharkbayne]

They were pretty quick about getting the ammo changes on Test. I dunno, after playing with them during the Beta I like to think the best about the devs. I really do think they're working at full speed trying to get things running better, and that's about all you can ask.

Don't worry about Scorched_earth , I'm pretty sure it's Porkfryer/EVILoHOMER/DaniFilth

[TheN00b]

Jeez, this idea is truly one of the best out there for the future of Planetside. One problem though. It's easy for all of you mildly bored 20/5's out there to propose a huge frontline, but wouldn't it be a lot harder to get exp? I'm BR14, and since I don't play a hell of a lot, it's already not too easy for me to advance in BR and CR. What'll happen when the battles are all spread out across the continent, rather than in larger zergs where I am ashamed to admit I get the majority of my exp :( ?

[Kaikou]

Well, bases would still be the main objective. They'd still have all of their bonuses and such. It would just add mini continent locks where factions can control areas that people can't HART into. They also can't hack bases within these territories until they either break the other faction's link to this territory, making it go neutral, or taking all of the nodes connected to it, taking control of it.

I'm gonna try and photoshop a picture of what I mean. So far some of the pictures posted are pretty close. The one up about 2 or 3 posts is really close, but instead of having a bunch of SOI, the nodes would make up a lattice that if connected, would lock all of the area contained within the nodes captured.

[Hamma]

I've always thought teritory should be claimable. Not sure why it never happened

[Rbstr]

We need something that forced battle out doors this node idea is ok, but i like the idea were the lattice is connected to simply little CC's that are outside and undefended(as in no walls/turrets), or even in bunker(no spawns near them!!) they are a part of the latice to they have to behacked before you can go on, posibly 2 to 5-7 depending on latice length, like on cyssor there would be alot more of these 'territory markers' between Itan and tore, say 7 or so.

But i think the hart fix should be different. Either the timer needs to be made much higher, a big restriction made on drop zones, like only in friendly SOI's or only near a CR placed beacon(he has to be ther to place the beacon, or the hart should be romoved all together. as it stand its sometime faster to racall and hart back than it is to drive place to place, thats not the way it should be

[Dharkbayne]

Good idea.

[Kaikou]

Here's a really rough example of what I mean... I just linked them as they are 1024x768 resolution and I felt that making them smaller would make it somewhat difficult to see...

http://home.comcast.net/~kaikou/ex1.jpg

As you see in the above picture there are territories claimed by each empire. If you look closely you see small dots, each color belonging to that empire. The bases within the TR territory are not hackable, and will remain that way until a one or more nodes, depending on how they are linked (they link to the nearest friendly node) are either deactivated, or claimed by another empire, exposing the TR base to either neutral or other empire territory. I didn't include anything in nodes being connected to bases but once a base gets taken, all nodes linked to it would turn over to the base's new owner. This way once a base is taken, the nodes would be set up so that the base would be within the territory of the empire that just claimed it, not allowing the base to be hacked back until that territory is broken.

http://home.comcast.net/~kaikou/ex2.jpg

In this picture you can see the TR have claimed 3 nodes that were once NC on the mid-western coast. The TR created a coast to coast link, and thus everything behind that line of nodes now belongs to TR. In order to break this, another empire would have to take some of these nodes. Taking one of these nodes would break the coast to coast link, but the nodes will link to the nearest friendly node after their previous link is broken, so more than 1 node will have to be taken in order to cause any kind of large territory loss/gain.

These pictures aren't very detailed but it gives an idea of what I mean. If this idea generates interest, I'll try and throw together some more detailed pictures.

[Hamma]

Hotness.

[Dyentious]

Well the only problem I see is this..

Pretty much all the front lines are going to be butted up against each other. This is alright cause it creates a frontline of war along the land. But the problem is.. as soon as one team starts to break through the line at a specific spot, it's totally visable on the world map, and next thing you know the zerg will be hittin it and that's that.

The concept is cool, but it needs to be made so the map doesn't show you exactly where and when the enemy is advancing. Yea you may have advanced, but whats the point when every enemy in the world knows you did and is about to pounce on yoru ass?

[Hayoo]

as soon as one team starts to break through the line at a specific spot, it's totally visable on the world map, and next thing you know the zerg will be hittin it and that's that.

That is were strategic diversions come in. Everyone knows what happens when a CR5 screams "our home continents are under attack!" The zerg leaves a cont and goes there, allowing the enemy to advance. So imagine the same thing along the battle line on a cont. The Zerg sees an advance into one sector and they blindly rush there (unless a CR4-5 stops them)...however, on the other side of the line, the real attack begins. The Zerg either has to disengage, split, fall back, or initiate a counter attack to respond to the threat. It is up to the continent leaders to evaluate which is most likely to succeed and convince the Zerg to do it. So in my opinion, the concept still works.

Already empires have set up or are in the process of setting up strategic response teams. That is, a squad that responds to home cont invasions so the Zerg doesn't have to. What will then be needed is a tactical response team, a continent reserve if you will, something that this game lacks because everyone wants to be in the action all the time.

but it needs to be made so the map doesn't show you exactly where and when the enemy is advancing

The node idea doesn't show you where enemy forces are, just what they have captured. You still need patrols and probes along the front to find where the enemy is.

[TheN00b]

Again, I reiterate my feeling that this is a great idea. However, I think that there should be more lattice points than those illustrated in Kaikou's drawings. It would be very interesting if there were, say, 50 Lattice points on every continent+bases, rather than the smaller amount there. That way, blind rushes would still have to go to a lot of places before they could tumble onwards. I also just had what is either a really cool idea or a nervous breakdown. Maybe, instead of just Emp-Locking, connected lattice points created Force Domes. However, the lattice points along the boundaries of an Empire's territory did not do this, so in that way you would have a small portion of unclaimed land to fight over, while keeping parts of the continent entirely safe. Also, warpgates in Force Domed territory would not work for enemy troops.

[Lonehunter]

I can't exactly say why yet, but this seems like a very bad idea. I'll get back to you.

[TheN00b]

[Creaky Old Man's Voice] O, old Johnny's knee over there is twitchin' agin. Betta watch et. [/Creaky Old Man's Voice]

[Visor]

This idea will take ages including that capital combat ex-pack is going to come out to make up for crappy combat ex-pack this idea would when theres PS2

[Rbstr]

Those pics are very nice, and are the way this should work. Though a few more nodes would be nice.

I don't feel these should have any benifits other that making the latice harder to get though and giveing us true outdoor battles with lines and an increased usfullness of MA, but i would make it so harts can only drop into friendly node newtork/ SOI areas, or better yet only in friendly SOI's(base soi's not node areas). to facilitate transport, giving us supply lines as well.

Also make a facility that has been degennd give up all node directly linked to it to nutral. i'll explain in a sec.

If this is implemented we'll have a more traditional style of frontline battles. And if the thing i mention above is implemented, behind the lines missions can realy turn the tide of battle.

[TheN00b]

Dude, this really would be great. While it would be adding a huge new and higher level of strategy of the game, it would also be partially nerfing the HART without taking it away completely. BTW, scratch my Force Domes idea. It's stupid and annoying.

[Vis Armata]

Question: would 'nodes' encourage forces to split up, or would nodes encourage the bulk of forces on continent to move like locusts, devouring all the nodes they come across?

[TheN00b]

If any force tried a swathe approach like the one you just described, it would be pathtically easy to destroy them. Imagine a huge NC zerg spearing it's way into TR territory. All of a sudden, a Terran CR5 grows a brainstem, and orders people to cut off the zerg by taking back it's nodes at the point at which Terran territory was initially breached. All of a sudden, that poor likkle zerg is being assaulted from all three sides, with no lines of retreat and no armor support. Hasta la vista.

[Kaikou]

Yeah, the idea of having multiple targets would force zergs to split up. They could swarm the nodes if they wanted but after they move on, another empire would be able to take it back just as easily. The nodes would have to be strategically captured in order to access bases you want to hack and keep at least a little control over the nodes.

Simply put, the more targets required to advance, the smaller the zergs will be.

[Visor]

This kind enforces the capitals idea but it will be o-so complicated for the average n00b so less new people will buy the game so it wont happen since profits wont support it. Or Vice/versa.

[Rbstr]

Its realy cool the way things work.

TheNoob i was jsut about to say that, its liek the battle of teh bulge scenario

[TheN00b]

I personally don't know a thing about the Battle of the Bulge, other than that it was a large battle in WWII, but that defensive approach just makes sense.

[Riyu]

At first I thought this was a good idea, but then I thought otherwise.

Spreading fights out over the terrain is good. But by creating such a system, it would make it more difficult for defenders to defend. "Nodes" would force defenders to move away from the safety and advantages of a base thereby leveling the playing field between defenders and attackers.

That's bad.

[TheN00b]

You're wrong but right. The thing is, the attackers will probably take the nodes and move on, but assuming the defenders have established a good position, they can sweep into the rear of the attackers push and metaphorically sweep their feet out from under them, creating a sorrounded attack. Seems good for defenders to me :shrug:

[Rbstr]

yeah, this allows you to cut off teh attackers and turn it inot momentum for you. It can also creat an island type situation too were the attackers just go right around a base besaue its to much trouble

[Spee]

The only thing wrong with this is that maps would need a co-ordinates system for people to relay to CR5's and such.



Otherwise, blind flailing shall occur.

[noodles]

i like that idea alot... another thing that i think should be added in the next patch is that owning a bio lab not only reduces spawn time but should also reduce implant initialization time.
but i really like both of the ideas (hayoo and kaikou). maybe a combination of the two would somehow work in there.

[Riyu]

You're wrong but right. The thing is, the attackers will probably take the nodes and move on, but assuming the defenders have established a good position, they can sweep into the rear of the attackers push and metaphorically sweep their feet out from under them, creating a sorrounded attack. Seems good for defenders to me :shrug:

You assume that the playerbase plays with tactical organization and precision. I think that assumption is wrong.

I would guesstimate that at least over 80% of the player population follows the "See nme, charge!, die, respawn, charge!" routine with little to no regard for tactics.

Along the same lines, do you ever see any tactical commands in Global or Continent channels from CR5s? I haven't. The chat I see usually are things like:

"Aton needs Gen repaired"
"ANT for Gunuku needs a lift"
"Searhus next!"

I'm not trying to say that players are a bunch of lemmings or CR5s suck. The reason true tactical precision will never exist in Planetside is due to the lack of discipline and real-time organization...

In this "Node system", the casual players will not want to go to an out of the way "node" defending it against possible attackers. Players want guarenteed action. The reason that Hotspots and Instant Action are in game is precisely for this factor. It allows people to know where they should go to find immediately action.

[TheN00b]

But my opinion is that, while the majority of them are retards, there are some good CR5's. If they can recognize this trategy, and inform using COntinent chat the players with them, it will appeal to both the good players because of their understanding of the game, and the bad players because all they can bring themselves to do is to follow CR5's blindly.

[Hamma]

I added a question about this subject to the developer interview tonight :brow:

[TheN00b]

W00t! You rock Hamma. Now we get to see what they say :brow: