Tanks real roll

[Peacemaker]

Any military guy will tell you the same thing about a tank. Easy to kill from the air, they require defence from enemy airial attack. After a little bit of a discussion in IRC I came to the conclusion that all tanks should be nerfed from shooting down aircraft. A tank should NOT be able to shoot down enemy aircraft with its main gun. Coaxial and mounted is a diffrent story. This is mostly refering to the Magrider and the Vanguard. The vanguard has no need to use its main gun on aircraft, the 20mm owns aircraft at medium range. The Magrider on the other hand. Well everyone knows about that. God damn sniper AA platform. It should not be like that. A tank with no AA or friendly air should be just asking to get wasted. Not shoot down enemy aircraft. Give the mag a mounted gun on top and everything would be even. (cant delevate it all the way to ground so infantry and tanks have nothing to worry about) Then make the main guns on all the tanks simply "bounce or deflect" off of the aircraft but still do minimal damage to them (1/4th current). Simply put, make the tanks be what tanks are supposed to be. Infantry owning, friendly infantry SUPPORTING, juicy targets for aircraft. Sick and tired of 5 mags rollin down from a base that can own anything in the air and ground. Same for Vanguards. Please not Im not bitchin against prowlers b/c the 12mm on that is crap vs aircraft and its very hard to mid air with it. Its acctualy what a tank should be. A death trap vs aircraft.

[Dyentious]

yea I agree fully. This also helps promote organized team play.

[Seer]

I'm fully prepared to give up the mag's anti-air abilities to be able to 1sk infantry without having to hit them square in the jimmy.

And if splash damage isn't in the cards, I'd still want a tighter COF to hit INF with.

[DHoff]

If mag can 1 shot infantry then not being able to shoot air with the gun would be ok, but the mag will never get 1 shot infantry so we will be able to shoot air :D .

[Seer]

You can one shot infantry, you just have to hit them dead on. At least I think so--I do it often enough, but they might be damaged already. I'm usually driving. I don't mind the motion screwing up my aim, but it really cheeses me off that after all is said and done, I still miss the direct hit a lot because of the cof.

[shadow58]

Nah Seer even direct hits with the main cannon don't kill troops instantly.

So yeh if you're gonna take away Mags anti-air capabilities then what have us VS got.

A hovering pile of shite that gets totalled driving over rough terrain, does minimal damage to infantry yet can't barely mow anyone in it anymore.

[Otherick]

ok I say no, why? We're in the freakin future boys and girls, In other words = Future + Tanks = Tanks that can do alot more then 20th century tanks. So you get me?

[shaizan]

I've always thought the tank's real roll was a Kaiser, or perhaps Sesame Seed. Something tougher than a Dinner Roll, after all these are tanks, and they are tough. :D

[ORANGE]

I've always thought the tank's real roll was a Kaiser, or perhaps Sesame Seed. Something tougher than a Dinner Roll, after all these are tanks, and they are tough. :D

Never ever again.

P.S. I have been one shotted by a mag several times

[TheRedx]

You are crazy, if you are hit by a 100 mm shell, there is no way that thing is going to deflect. If you are dumb enough to get low enough to get hit or fly straight at the tank which most reavers do you should die for your stupidity.

Learn to work in groups of reavers it will help your chances of taking out tanks.

[Dyentious]

As far as the magrider goes.. i don't wanna hear any bitchin about that thing.

First of all.. the driver can gun in it.. which really makes a big difference during slow times when you can't find a gunner. Second, you can STRAFE, which makes it easier for the driver to gun the thing he's lookin at, and dodge attacks.

You guys talk about the fact that you can go over water like it's stupid.
Well i'll tell you, on cyssor, when the only way we can get to you is along a huge bridge, and all of you guys are just sailing on over the water toward us, that is a HUGE advantage.

Also, you magriders are shooting all of us while you're on the water, but we can't shoot back with out tanks cause nothing but a direct hit is going to do anything since we can't hit with splash damage. And i'll tell you right now, the chances of hitting a magrider directly on water with a prowler cannon is slim to none.
You have a lot going for you, but you just have to use it right and quit yer bitchin hehe

[Peacemaker]

Point is that the game would be alot better if tanks acctualy needed support to do their jobs. As it stands now a tank is a mobile fortress that can do anything it wants. And im not saying nerf just the mag. All three need it. I dont mind getting waxed by a PPA or the Vanguards 20mm but whens the last time you heard of a tank downing a heli with its main gun?

As for the 1 shot kill. Id say make it 1 shot agile, but not Rexo. You guys have a sniper tank so you really cant make it 1 shot rexo too. It being a sniper tank is the reason its so damn effective as AA. But its not an AA platform, all tanks are designed to have anti aircraft support and support the infantry into getting to their objectives. A tank cant do its job with out infantry.

[Rbstr]

I like that, but you could also make that aircraft more effective against the tanks, it takes almost a whol invatory of rockets to kill a mag.

[Gigabein]

21st century tank gunners don't have pinpoint accurate eye implant reticles either. You're playing the wrong game if you're hoping for modern day realism.

[Rbstr]

dude a modern day tank is 50x as accurate as these tanks are too

[DucusSumus]

I agree completely.

[Geist]

You have to realize that these are futuristic tanks. For all we know these could be used as all purpose tanks that are used to destroy buildings for land development.

[Pilgrim]

Ever tried to hit a reaver with the Van Cannon? It's not that easy.

If someone can do it, then more power to them! It still takes two Direct hits on an aircraft to kill it, and you won't get those unless the pilots stupid and hovering 20 yards off the bow and spamming rockets at you (not to mention that all the tanks have a huge blindspo where they can't hit anything in the air)

And while it does take a crap load of rockets to down an MBT that's a good thing. You dirve a tank alone towards the enemy, and you may survive... but not by alot. Everything, and everyone open up on you.

Nothing is overpowered about tanks... it's just your tactics are underpowered. use groups. 2-3 reavers should own any tank with the only exception being a well gunned MAg... but even then it's had to hit eraticaly moving targets.

Don't nerf something just because you're not good enough to work around it!

[dscytherulez]

Ever tried to hit a reaver with the Van Cannon? It's not that easy.

If someone can do it, then more power to them! It still takes two Direct hits on an aircraft to kill it, and you won't get those unless the pilots stupid and hovering 20 yards off the bow and spamming rockets at you (not to mention that all the tanks have a huge blindspo where they can't hit anything in the air)

And while it does take a crap load of rockets to down an MBT that's a good thing. You dirve a tank alone towards the enemy, and you may survive... but not by alot. Everything, and everyone open up on you.

Nothing is overpowered about tanks... it's just your tactics are underpowered. use groups. 2-3 reavers should own any tank with the only exception being a well gunned MAg... but even then it's had to hit eraticaly moving targets.

Don't nerf something just because you're not good enough to work around it!

:nod:

[Rbstr]

I've hit many a reaver with a van cannon, becasue they get cocky that we can't hit them and get up close, then bam bam, they die

[Peacemaker]

1. The is NO blind spot on any of the tanks that a reaver can get in and hit the tank with out getting hit him self. He can stay directly above it and not get hit but he cant hit it.
2. The vanguard is VERY easy to mid air with.
3. The point is NOT that these are uber future tanks. The roll of a tank should not be changed if the point of the game is to simulate a war. In war tanks are not AA guns. Nor should they be in planetside. To say that because they are from the future means they should beable to kill enemy aircraft is a very bad reason to let them shoot down aircraft.

[Gigabein]

In war tanks are not AA guns. Nor should they be in planetside.

says who?

[Geist]

Maybe they should not be able to shoot down aircraft with the main gun but maybe they could us the 20mm on top.

[Peacemaker]

Thats what I would agree with. I can fight vanguards with some dificulty, but the god damn magrider is way overpowered against air. Ppl call it a tank killer, it can hold its own against aircraft tho. Not right.

[Pilgrim]

1. The is NO blind spot on any of the tanks that a reaver can get in and hit the tank with out getting hit him self. He can stay directly above it and not get hit but he cant hit it.


That's not true.

A reaver at alititude can fire on a van and the Van cannot Raise the cannon high enough to hit them. Believe me, I've had to switch to the 20's several times (and BTW if you're wounded a decent reaver will kill you before the 20's kill him, it'll wound him real good, but not kill him)

It is true that if they are right above him it doesn't work... yes, but try from about 20 yards out and about 100 up. you won't hit with every rocket, but those 150's will sale harmlessly below you.

Besides outside of the MAgrider killing and Aircraft with the Main gun takes some tallent, not a tallent I've seen many people have!

And if you really want to see an AA platform take out a Deliverer. You get both guns on a reaver and it's dead in seconds. Great fun! But we never use them as trasnports!

[ZionsFire]

I agree with Pilgrim. If I hit that reaver with my 150 I deserve that hit!

[DarthMidget]

Tanks are really well balanced against aircraft. A Vanguard gunner only gets a hit with the main cannon when facing a stupid pilot. And trust me, if a modern day pilot was stupid enough to fly low enough where an M-1 Abrams could hit him w/a 155mm cannon he'd be dead too.

[Angel_of_Death]

Point is that the game would be alot better if tanks acctualy needed support to do their jobs. As it stands now a tank is a mobile fortress that can do anything it wants. And im not saying nerf just the mag. All three need it. I dont mind getting waxed by a PPA or the Vanguards 20mm but whens the last time you heard of a tank downing a heli with its main gun?

As for the 1 shot kill. Id say make it 1 shot agile, but not Rexo. You guys have a sniper tank so you really cant make it 1 shot rexo too. It being a sniper tank is the reason its so damn effective as AA. But its not an AA platform, all tanks are designed to have anti aircraft support and support the infantry into getting to their objectives. A tank cant do its job with out infantry.

I agree with nerfing tanks. IMO everything should be nerfed, including all vehicles, deci., and a helluva lot more. But that is for another topic.

As for nerfing the mag. I have gunned countless times in Mags, and I agree, it is easy to kill aircraft, providing they come one at a time. But what else does the Mag have? Contrary to popular belief, the Mag cannot 1-hit kill anything besides a stealther. No, not agiles, and I'm quite certain it's 3 to a Rexo right now, correct me if I'm wrong, haven't tried to kill the Rexo since the buff (as the bug kind of decreases the population of Mags). Some smart person said one of the other Mag advantages, the fact that we can hover water. And on Cyssor, as they mentioned, it is an advantage I would give anything to keep. No more bottlenecks on bridges, etc.

Unless you have a very superb driver, and with an amazing gunner, you cannot take a tank 1v1. I have, but with a godlike driver. People have to start to drive a tank more like an assault buggy then a tank. The PPA is the beamer of tanks. It is not good. The Mag can't mow like other tanks, and there is no logic behind that, as it is all we had going for us.

Ever tried to hit a reaver with the Van Cannon? It's not that easy.

If someone can do it, then more power to them! It still takes two Direct hits on an aircraft to kill it, and you won't get those unless the pilots stupid and hovering 20 yards off the bow and spamming rockets at you (not to mention that all the tanks have a huge blindspo where they can't hit anything in the air)

And while it does take a crap load of rockets to down an MBT that's a good thing. You dirve a tank alone towards the enemy, and you may survive... but not by alot. Everything, and everyone open up on you.

Nothing is overpowered about tanks... it's just your tactics are underpowered. use groups. 2-3 reavers should own any tank with the only exception being a well gunned MAg... but even then it's had to hit eraticaly moving targets.

Don't nerf something just because you're not good enough to work around it!

Well put Pilgrim. Oh, and 3 reavers own ANY tank, including Mag, I don't care how good of a gunner you have.

Ppl call it a tank killer, it can hold its own against aircraft tho. Not right.

That was a good joke, "ppl call it a tank killer,". That is a fuckin good joke.

Tanks should have air support, infantry support and all of that in real life. In real life. This is a game, where snipers need no spotters, where tiny terminals hand you armor, where there is no death. If you wanted something more lifelike, you wouldn't of got PS.

[Peacemaker]

The tanks are well balanced against aircraft, expect the mag. Ive jecked them and used it as an AA gun before. Its rediculous how accurate it is when shooting at aircraft. Should not be able to do that. The main focus about this IS the mag. But I also think that the other two tanks shouldnt be able to do it. Its alot harder for them, but they have a secondary weapon DESIGNED for personal protection from aircraft. The mags sniper cannon should not beable to do the same thing. Make the main gun do didly vs aircraft and give it a gun on the roof for anti aircraft.

[Geist]

Too true!!!!!!!!!!!!

[noxious]

The Magrider [in compairison to the Vanguard and Prowler] is a superior anti-aircraft platform. The tradeoff is that it is an inferior anti-tank and anti-infantry platform. I consider the anti-air ability compensation for its lackluster anti-tank and anti-infantry ability. I'm not saying it's largely inferior, but I think we can all agree it is inferior nevertheless.

[DHoff]

Btw the strafing ability and turning of a magrider sucks ass and it is only the fastest tank by 4kph. An agile can strafe as fast as a mag (20 kph) and the van turns faster and is only 4kph slower. So don't say the mag has better maneuverability the only extra thing it has is that it can hover over water.

[shaizan]

I'd just like to point out that the word you are using is spelled role and not roll when used in this meaning. :love:

[Gigabein]

I don't see anything wrong with Vanu equipment not conforming to the "normal" usage.

[Ait'al]

I dont think they should take away the ability of ground units to do whtat they do now. They should finnaly put in those advanced Aircontrols to make them more like real aircraft so they ahve a chance at avoiding fire/be much harder to hit through either faster more elegant strafing or more advanced airal acrobatics(depending on circumstances). And very sensative controls so you can easily float back and forth etc. And obviously then the support for joysticks.

[Fenrys]

Planetside tanks can't be compaired to real tanks. A real tank could pick who's eyeball it wanted to put a shell through from a base on the opposite side of the continent. The main gun's aim is automaticaly adjusted for rough terrain. They are almost 2x as fast. And they kill nme tanks with a single hit.

[Rbstr]

Abrams would own our tanks, to would almost every other military thing

[Fenrys]

Abrams would own our tanks, to would almost every other military thing



I dunno about that. Our tanks could be made of some pretty advanced matierials. An Abrams-fired 100mm round would work better than a Prowler's against a Vanguard? Only in its precision. In 1,000s of years it is probable that we'd find a way to fit a larger explosive charge into a 100mm HE round, making it likely that the Abrams would get stomped.

[martyr]

"role"

[Dharkbayne]

"nazi"

[Lonehunter]

MAG riders are WAY too affective at Anti Air

[BlackOpz]

Tanks are really well balanced against aircraft. A Vanguard gunner only gets a hit with the main cannon when facing a stupid pilot. And trust me, if a modern day pilot was stupid enough to fly low enough where an M-1 Abrams could hit him w/a 155mm cannon he'd be dead too.

My only two cents on this topic:
A modern day pilot doesn't have to get close to his target like Reavers have to do sometimes. Most missles aircraft carry today can hit a target in excess of 2 miles. A Reaver's rockets have a maximum range of a few hundred meters. This is why I think that Aircraft and anti vehicle weapons should get a range boost. Other than that, both sides of this arguement have valid points.

[shaizan]

Your point is well taken, Blackopz, but I think that the Reaver and Mosquito are more akin to modern Helicopters than modern Fighter aircraft.

[Dharkbayne]

I dont think they should take away the ability of ground units to do whtat they do now. They should finnaly put in those advanced Aircontrols to make them more like real aircraft so they ahve a chance at avoiding fire/be much harder to hit through either faster more elegant strafing or more advanced airal acrobatics(depending on circumstances). And very sensative controls so you can easily float back and forth etc. And obviously then the support for joysticks.

you don't play planetside.

[TheRedx]

Heh this is kind of off the subject but an M1A1 Abrams main battle tank can travel at 40 to 50 miles per an hour and is equipped with a 120 mm cannon with a co-axil 240, loaders 240 and TC 50 cal. It uses two different types of rounds, the first SABOT is basically a rod made out of depleted uranium, punches through any armor instantly and sucks everything inside the tank out of the back through a hole about the size of a baseball.

The second MPACT which is replacing the HEAT round can shoot down both air and ground targets, Set it on air it acts like a big ass shotgun.

Not only that, an M1A2 can kill 3 enemy tanks in 12 seconds, it can also fire accuratly while crusing at 30 to 40 mph over rough terran due to the fact that the turret short of floats for lack of a better word. All they have to do is line up the sight on the enemy tank, hit the laze button which shoots out a laser to the enemy tank and locks onto it, the turret then automatically tracks the target, adjust for the wieght of the round, air speed/direction via an onboard computer as well as the lead so all the gunner has to do is push the fire button and BOOM!! thats one dead tank.

Our tanks would kick the crap out of these dumbfire pieces of shit.

http://www.milesdog.com/m2s/gallery/

[Fenrys]

We don't know what Vanguard armor is made of. A DU round may or may not be able to punch through it.

[Seer]

Considering a vanguard takes damage from 20mms, we can assume its armor is nothing special. Not that it matters terribly--what an odd game planetside would be if the devs gave us weapons with modern day capabilities.

[Dyentious]

Holy crap!

So it actually sucks the soldiers right out of the tank through a small hole?
Kinda like in Aliens? I think it was aliens 3 heh.

That's pretty friggin hardcore

[Geist]

Aliens 4, dude :D

[Daleon]

Reavers and Mossy's are defintely more helo than jet. I do think real jet style vehicles would be a boon to the game though. Fast movers that can't stop and hover in midair. With the ability to carry multiple ordances, air-air-guided, air-ground-guided, & air-ground-dumb. Anyone thats a jet jockey in BF9142-DC knows how much fun this type of flying can be.

So back to the original argument, as our current air are more like helicopters of today, and today's helicopters are often considering "tank-killers" its hard to really argue with our current situation. Once you've seen a Apache pop up out of some trees, let loose with a salvo of hellfires and slaughter a tank you know why.

[Majik]

Sick and tired of 5 mags rollin down from a base that can own anything in the air and ground.

So, just so I am clear, you are bitching because your 1 reaver gets owned when it tries to take on 5 enemy tanks? Because 1 on 1 a reaver who gets the drop on a mag has just as good a chance against it as it does against them. Get a tank, STFU

[Peacemaker]

Nooo. Im bitchin when 10 reavers have this happen to them. This little issue of mine was brought to a head the other day when about 9 reavers were downed by 3 magriders.

[Incompetent]

Anyone here willing/able to dig up the numbers on maintaining an attack helo compared to a tank? (man hours, cost, downtime ect.) I'm far to lazy and uninformed to do it myself, but i'll put good money on the difference being quite a bit more then 4/3.

[Visor]

its supossed to be fair not realistic its a fictionous game to realistic in any way.

[UncleDynamite]

As cool as jet-based aircraft would be, I think the devs are reluctant to put those in due to their concerns of speed-induced warping. As for the hours needed to maintain an Attack Heli, I heard that it takes twice as many hours to fully maintain an Apache versus an Abraham. That might just be someone speculating, so don't take my word on it. However, it should be noted that maintaining either a tank or attack helicopter involves a lot of hours, period. For every hour a tank is used in combat, there are way more hours needed to keep it in prime condition.

[Rbstr]

The reaver couls do some more AV damage with its rockets a whole loadout of rockets to kill a tank is a bit rediculous when they have decent AV power

[Krinsath]

Ok...first off, the Vanu's entire design philosphy stresses versatility over speed and over power. Why are you surprised that their battle tank is mediocre against everything? It does shoot down aircraft remarkably well in a one on one situation, but that's generally because the pilot is giving the tank an easy shot. It's a direct-line weapon....don't stay in a direct line in relation to the turret.

And to secondly, to put to rest the nonsense that "this is unrealistic that it can shoot down the VTOLs"...take yourself over to:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/m830a1.htm

And read a bit. Even a little picture illustrating the point. For those of you who are like me and generally too lazy to click a link, the relevant portion:

"The M830A1 HEAT (High Explosive Anti-Tank) round, recently fielded for the M1A1 and M1A2 Main Battle Tank, is a major advancement over its predecessor, the M830, which has been in the US inventory since the early '80s. HEAT rounds have multi-purpose warheads which are used to defeat armored vehicles, helicopters and soft targets such as bunkers."

If the helicopter is dumb enough to fly in the Abrams' field of fire, it will be destroyed. If the Reaver/Mosquito is dumb enough to hang out over top of a tank, it will be destroyed. Carry out attack runs on quick strafes and use those afterburners, your problems with tanks are greatly alleviated. In a combat situation, there's really little reason to hover unless you're picking off infantry in a zone that's largely under control by friendly armor and air.

Attack runs do too little damage? Form a squadron of Reavers, go tank hunting. A full squadron of 10 Reavers actually *coordinating* is a force that is hard to stop short of a full squad of AA (which...makes sense...).

My $.02 on the topic.

[Vis Armata]

Attack runs do too little damage? Form a squadron of Reavers, go tank hunting. A full squadron of 10 Reavers actually *coordinating* is a force that is hard to stop short of a full squad of AA (which...makes sense...).

Having been in tanks when this happens and also leading coordinated squadrons of strike craft, I totally agree.

Mags are more likely to hit airplanes, but dodging the rail beam is definitely possible.

I only rarely kill planes with my tank gun - it's easier just to use the machinegun. Sustained 20mm fire is more likely to repel a plane than the main gun.