The Sunderer - Does it Blow Chunks?

[Veteran]

Do you think the Sunderer blows goats? Some people think its huge profile coupled with its weak guns and poor maneuverability make it an insult to the tradition of troop transports.

What do you think?

[Seer]

Slow, unwieldy, and the main guns make a very strange combination. I don't see much use for it most of the time.

[Veteran]

The tech requirement is the real kick in the ass. Hell, I'd rather have a Deliverer any day of the week; those 20mm guns chew through enemies like Oprah chews through a fruit cake.

[Liquidtide]

The recently nerfed the acceleration and speed of the big bus. It's kinda slow and cumbersum now. And any beginner grunt can hit this moving barn with a decimator.

Needs. 1 main 75 MM cannon 1 20 MM machine gun. and a slight speed buff.

[Veteran]

Wouldn't it be bad-ass if the Sunderer's onboard MAXs could fire their weapons from a loading gate in the Sunderer's rear?

The party bus would be mighty deadly.

[EarlyDawn]

I say let the passenger closest to the front of the vehicle in each passenger compartment fire a mounted 50 cal.

[Fenrys]

It transports people and its decent at taking out wall turrets (and drawing fire).

[TheN00b]

Hell, how 'bout every passenger gets a gun slit to fire out from? That'd be sweet :D .

[JakeLogan]

I don't know about you guys but I use the death bus all the time. weather its transporting grunts or sweeping mines off a bridge fight the sundy is a great piece of equipment.

[Vis Armata]

It's great as part of an armor column (tanks and AA). Its armor provides protection, and the 75mm cannons suppress, but like anything in the game, the whole is more than the sum of the parts.

[Rbstr]

its not that bad but its not of much use in the Hart everyware game we have.

The 75 is the same things thats on the lighting and it not that bad, but the firing arc sucks you can't hit things 10m away from you

[FlakMan]

Give every passenger their own 20mm chaingun. Otherwise, it's a waste of a vehicle.

[Veteran]

FlakMan is on point here. Crew vehicles should give everyone a role. "Cargo" isn't a role that I consider compatible with a high-energy FPS.

[Dharkbayne]

Aye, let us shoot out of the vehicles!

[EarlyDawn]

Yeah, chainguns for the passengers would be awesome.

[I Hate Pants]

The sunderer ownz! Period!

[TheRagingGerbil]

The sundy would be 500 times more widely used if players were allowed to bail at speed. I hate using it for the simple fact that some player will inevitably jump out in the middle of a fire fight. This means I come to a complete stop and proceed to get owned.

Allow us to bail at a small hit to health and armor.

[TheN00b]

Agreed, add that, have the armament upgraded to two 50mm port cannons and two 20mm's on top, along with slits on the side of the vehicle for passengers to fire through, and you're left with a fine vehicle. As it is, the Sundy is stuck playing third fiddle in Ground Transport (and there's only two vehicles in the Cert).

[Jagd]

The main problem with the sunderer is that it's just no fun to drive. That thing would get stuck on a speedbump in the wallmart parking lot for chrissakes. It's just painful to drive through a combat zone cause you are more than likely gonna get killed because of something stupid (ie: getting stuck on a rock just as the enemy armor closes in on you).

Of course while the 75mm cannons can be extremely vicious, they hardly ever bag the gunners any kills. Why is that? Well you can't shoot anything close to you, because the arc doesn't go past 90% and you are raised quite a ways off the ground in those turrets on top of the beast, so the "safe zone" or shadow around the sunderer is fecking massive. Then of course we have the Worms3D style exaggerated trajectory of the shells, which means you can't use them to hit anything far away, either. So at least you have medium range right? Well no, because the pig is so slow and unmaneuverable that any tank engaging you will either stay back (mags, prowlers) or get in real close (vanguards) and own you while you sit there spamming "stop let me out before we die!!!" in squad chat.

I dunno, I just don't think this lumbering beast will ever see a lot of active service. Using it seems to lead invariably to embarassment and/or disaster, so why would you subject yourself to another doomed ride in the squad-sized coffin?

[Veteran]

"Using it seems to lead invariably to embarassment and/or disaster, so why would you subject yourself to another doomed ride in the squad-sized coffin?"

So true.

[TheN00b]

If I ever piloted the Sunderer, I would discover new levels of pity for those forced to drive Oil trucks.

[Jagd]

See the thing is, it doesn't really handle any worse than an AMS. It's just that in the AMS you know you're nothing but bait, and you aren't dragging your whole squad down with you. Oh yes, and the benefits of having an AMS behind enemy lines far outweighs the benefits of getting a sunderer there. You're looking at 5 minutes of waiting in the courtyard loading up a sunderer, just to save a 2-10 minute walk to the next base. With an AMS, well, that thing turns the tide in almost every battle.

[Visor]

The main problem with the sunderer is that it's just no fun to drive. That thing would get stuck on a speedbump in the wallmart parking lot for chrissakes. It's just painful to drive through a combat zone cause you are more than likely gonna get killed because of something stupid (ie: getting stuck on a rock just as the enemy armor closes in on you).

Of course while the 75mm cannons can be extremely vicious, they hardly ever bag the gunners any kills. Why is that? Well you can't shoot anything close to you, because the arc doesn't go past 90% and you are raised quite a ways off the ground in those turrets on top of the beast, so the "safe zone" or shadow around the sunderer is fecking massive. Then of course we have the Worms3D style exaggerated trajectory of the shells, which means you can't use them to hit anything far away, either. So at least you have medium range right? Well no, because the pig is so slow and unmaneuverable that any tank engaging you will either stay back (mags, prowlers) or get in real close (vanguards) and own you while you sit there spamming "stop let me out before we die!!!" in squad chat.

I dunno, I just don't think this lumbering beast will ever see a lot of active service. Using it seems to lead invariably to embarassment and/or disaster, so why would you subject yourself to another doomed ride in the squad-sized coffin?

Exactly what are those guns meant to shoot up so high, Libs?

If they have small slot like in Halo where you can shoot your crappy machine gun from your seat.

Someone also had an idea about the bailing at high speeds. just open the doors and let the character stop, drop, and roll on the ground and while they are doing that they take damage.

[scarpas]

The tech requirement is the real kick in the ass. Hell, I'd rather have a Deliverer any day of the week; those 20mm guns chew through enemies like Oprah chews through a fruit cake.


hehe :rofl:

i like to drive that baby every once in a while, but the deliverer is better

[BDMJ]

The only thing that really holds it back is the cannon arc. It has the capability to do damage, it has the armor to survive it's horrendous speed and turning characteristics, and it is has enough troop capacity to make it worthwhile. The problem is that if a harasser gets inside its arc, it will die to the 12mm. Shit even a bassilisk will do the job.

[Visor]

So then just move the 75mm guns some where usefull like to the sides and back and put a 20mm on the top.

[Vis Armata]

Strap on a 20mm to each gun turret. That would help a bit.

[TheN00b]

Like I said, change the 75mm's into port guns and stick 20mm's on the top.

[Seer]

Using it seems to lead invariably to embarassment and/or disaster, so why would you subject yourself to another doomed ride in the squad-sized coffin?

Haha. That's so true. Every time I get in a sunderer the ride ends ignominy and explosions.

[Gigabein]

1. Leave the weaponry alone.
2. Remove the tech plant requirement
3. Allow high speed bail-outs0
4. Nerf the HART so it can only drop on the edges of friendly base SOI's... tower SOI's don't count.

This makes the HART good only for getting TO the front lines (not tactical drops BEHIND enemy lines), and troop transports become critical.

[Jagd]

It would still be a fucking coffin. Driving that thing requires a complete disregard for all of your passengers' lives.

[TheN00b]

Yep, the Deliverer has better guns, better speed, and better handling. Even the smaller troop slots is negligible, 'cuz you can still pack a squad into 2 Deliverers rather than one Sundy, and by doing so give them an actual chance at survival.

[Gigabein]

How is it a coffin if you can bail whenever you want? I consider the primary purpose of the sundy to be troop transport... the guns are there first as a deterrent, second as offense. As someone pointed out you'd be better off getting a deliverer or Lightning. It is not optimal as a "gun ship" platform due to it's low mobility and limited firing arc.

Consider the effects of all 4 of my proposed fixes together:
Sunderer would be less vulnerable if passengers want out, and more important as troop transport since the HART would be nerfed AND it carries more infantry/MAXes than deliverers AND doesn't require a specific type of base (dropship station or tech plant) like galaxy.

[Peacemaker]

Give it 3 12 mm with similar arcs of gal. Then give it a helluvalot more armor. It should be to carry that squad into the hottest zones in the game with out blowing up.

[Visor]

When you get out the Sun stop completly then you ge tout then it has to ge tback to its nominal speed, thats how its a coffin and worse its like a mosquito chargin a locked down burster.

the only way you can fix it is get better guns at better spots and get better speed or make it be able to have another MAX or something in the back like the gal can carry a light buggy.

[UltraDude]

We need the old original "Pre-Balance Pass" sunderer back when it was faster had better torque acceleration and more armor. This brings up the questions of "hey devs WTF WERE YOU THINKING? WHAT WAS UNBALENCED ABOUT A BARELY USED COMMON POOL TRANSPORT?!?!!!?"

[Visor]

yeah balance my ass

[Onizuka-GTO]

We need the old original "Pre-Balance Pass" sunderer back when it was faster had better torque acceleration and more armor. This brings up the questions of "hey devs WTF WERE YOU THINKING? WHAT WAS UNBALENCED ABOUT A BARELY USED COMMON POOL TRANSPORT?!?!!!?"

Wow. never thought I would agree with a caplocked poster.... :rolleyes:

[Ait'al]

How high can you jump out of a plane without damage. And how slow do you have to be moving to not take damage. Is there an official way to get out of these two vehicleswhile moving without taking damage?

[Onizuka-GTO]

You can both land and stop to a complete stop to "officially" get out, that is you see the "getting-out" animation.

But for Aircrafts there is a simple "pop-out&Free-fall" version and you you just tumble tothe ground emcompassed by a magical forcefield called a "enertia-damperer" (excuse the spelling)
basicially you recieve no damage from the fall and it can be done at any height.

As for ground vehicles there are no emergency bailing system, the vehicle will not allow you to exit until you slow to an acceptable slow speed. For larger vehicles it has to a complete stop.

[Gigabein]

2 words... Ejection Seats

[Onizuka-GTO]

Ara ara, how James Bond-ish.... :lol:

[Dharkbayne]

That'd be cool, say, 100 M up, nwo that I think of it, aircraft should have that too, most of the time, if you bail going too slow, your plane lands on you :\

[Kikinchikin]

give it a good speed buff and more armor. Make it the heaviest armored vehicle in the game. That would really help operations out, because you could amass a fleet of 5 ro more sunderers and storm a base easily, crushing anything in your path.

[Dharkbayne]

Why is it that it is slower, and carries less stuff, it should be able to hold much more stuff than a galaxy, because it's well, on the ground,.

[Onizuka-GTO]

I'm just wondering why we don't have Empire specific ground transport? I mean a tracked vehicles with alot of cyclers on it, a Anti-grav vanu transporter, and a NC transporter thingy.
I mean people would be far more forgiving over it's bad points, as long as it has a reasonable amount of protection, firepower and special abilities to deliever troops to the fight safely.

[TheN00b]

Hmm, mebbe a good idea. Care to churn out some possible specs?

[Onizuka-GTO]

mmmmm....weeellll.....
I can only throw up some ideas for a TR or VS version, dunno about NC's.

Well for the VS one, it will be a anti-grav, can hold two Maxes, seven Reinforced Troops and 1 driver.

Driver can shoot a weapon like you can on the Magrider driver, but also it can have a dual lancer turret, perhaps? Or maybe a single Quasar gun, slave to one of the passengers? and have a max speed of 78kph but like all Vanu vehicles it will have moderately weak armour, but also a rechargable energy shield that protects it only from EMP attacks not physical ones.

TR on the other hand can carry the same number of maxes and troops as the vanu version, but it will be tracked. On top it will have a dual mini-chaingun on a turret, also it will have six 12mm firing points around it.
It can travel around....oh...68Kph? and of course have heavy armour protection.

That's all i can pick off the top of my head at the moment ,feel free to change the specs.

[Gigabein]

The NC transport should probably be faster and better armored than the TR one. Also it should have a lower profile and stronger guns. :doh:

[Spee]

The NC transport should probably be faster and better armored than the TR one. Also it should have a lower profile and stronger guns. :doh:


Nope, NC already got that with the Vanguard Vs. Prowler. Time to give the NC something to whine about.


The troop transport should be HUGE. COLOSSAL profile, huge amounts of armor, quad 20mm's(Nothing more than a nuisance with random people, absolutely devastating when focused) and travel at about 50 KPH. The speed of an ANT.


TR have thier AV bait. Lets give the NC one.

[Kaymon]

I disagree Gigabein. I think empire specific ground transport should fit the empires themes.

TR: Fast, holds 6 troops.
NC: Slower, holds 4 troops, 2 Max's
VS: Hover (med speed). Holds 5 troops 1 max

But this is all too close to the Sunderer anyway, so it's moot.

[Gigabein]

somebody missed a joke!

[Lithpope]

When I had it certed I used a fully shielded one as a "poor man's CR3 EMP blast", shield it up, and drive it through the base minefield, you generally got a huge chunk of mines before you died. :lol:

[Rbstr]

They way its suposed to be:
TR slow lots of armor, faste firing weaps (atleast one more than the NC and VS versions too)
NC midlish speed, medium armor, Uber damage per shot with the gun
VS, fastes/maglev stuff, least armor, weapons in between NC and TR's

[GreyFlcn]

Oddly I had a real good go with Sunder today

Loaded up my BR12 guy with
MA, AV, Eng, AdvMed, Deliverer/Sunder

Oddly I wasn't attacked by air much, and we had a fully loaded Sunder almost the whole time.

Our squad alone were the ones to open up Hossin today :P

NC arrived in force, and we prevailed.

Of course we got all disjointed around 10PM, and didn't do so well trying the same thing on Ishundar.

[Skandalf]

It�s a troop transporter, nothing more nothing less,
it�s for transporting troops, hence the name!
if you want something more deadly grab a tank. :D

[Incompetent]

Ah, Sunderer actually means something like "destroyer" IIRC. I also happen to agree it sucks, let its guns depress lower. (i only use it for clearing deployables and knocking out the odd wall turret.)

[TheN00b]

Here's some possible specs, to the exact, for Empire-Only TT:

Legionnaire
Terran Republic

Armor: 2000

Max Speed: 65 KPH

Accel/Decel: 45 KPH per second

Guns: 4 port-mounted 20mm chainguns placed alternately along the sides, 2 top-mounted 25mm chainguns.

General Appearance: The Legionnaire Mass Transport Vehicle is modelled after an Old Earth vehicle called a bullet-train. It is very sleek, 9m long and 1 meter wide, except in the very back, which is 2.5 meters wide in order to accomodate the engines and side-by-side MAXes. Each passenger row is 1m in both length and width, and the additional 1 meter is taken up by the narrowed nose of the vehicle. It is night-black, and well-known for it's incredible speed.

Troop Capacity: The Legionnaire carries 10 people at once, with 1 gunner at all 6 weapons emplacements, a pilot and passenger in the front, and two MAX units in the rear of the vehicle, side-by-side.

Notes: The Legionnaire has pods placed around each person in it, which can be ejected from the vehicle. If ejected, the person inside is shot upwards about 200m, then floats back down to land.

Thunder
New Conglomerate

Armor: 2500

Max speed: 50 KPH

Accel/Decel: 25 KPH per second

Guns: Two 30mm Flak Cannons on top, and 1 chin-mounted flechette launcher.

General Appearance: The Thunder is built like a much-enlarged version of the Old Earth Humvee. It is about 8 meters long, with a width of 5 meters and a height of 5 meters. It has a large, covered flatbed in the back, into which the soldiers are rolled, then stored into pods that are set horizontally in the bed. The Thunder is painted with Gold and Yellow "camouflage" paint (I know, I know... :rolleyes: :D ), and is among the loudest vehicles in the game. The Flak Cannons are placed on top of the pilot's section, and the flechette launcher is controlled by the pilots passenger side occupant.

Troop Capacity: The Thunder can carry up to 10 troops at a time; 8 infantry and 2 MAX units. 4 of the infantry are placed in the flatbedalong with the MAXes, 2 of the infantry are gunning for the Flak cannons, one is the pilot, and one is controlling the chin-gun from the pilot's side.

Notes: The Flak Cannon gunners, the pilot, and the chin-gun operator are equipped with the same ejection system as the Legionnaire, but the troops in the flatbed are equipped with side mounted ejection pods that launch approximately 7 meters to the side of the Thunder if activated.

That's all for now, folks, I'll come up with a Vanu one later. Like 'em?

[TheN00b]

OK, here's a VS one as well:

Scythe
Vanu Sovereignty

Armor: 1750

Max Speed: 70 KPH

Accel/Decel: 60 KPH per second

Guns: 4 Port-Mounted Heavy Particle Cannons, 2 Rear-Mounted Heavy Particle Cannons 1 Chin-Mounted Heavy Railgun. All cannons cannot point more than 45 degrees upwards.

General Description: The Scythe is a rather bulbous vehicle, but has very graceful curves. The front is shaped like the front of an Old Earth fighter plane, with the chin-gunner directly behind and slightly above the pilot, much like in a Galaxy with the tail-gunner and pilot. The back is a miniature dome, with gun ports arrayed along the sides of it. It is a light azure color, with green flames around the cockpit area.

Troop Capacity: 10, 8 infantry and 2 MAXes. 6 of the infantry, along with the MAXes, are in the rear dome, and the infantry operate the the 6 Heavy Particle Cannons.

Notes: The dome is divided into sections like an orange, with a passenger in each section. If the passenger wishes to leave the vehicle, he bails and the section of the dome that was carry him falls out of the vehicle and disentegrates. If all of the sections are detatched, the pilot and gunner are forced to leave the vehicle, which then deconstructs.

[GreyFlcn]

Uhm....

Sunder has 2500 armor now
All it needs is some form of chaingun to fend off air, and infantry. *
.... and higher topend (58kph top speed currently)
.... and hotdrops (www.greyfalcon.net/hotdrop.gif)
.... and an uber hud (www.greyfalcon.net/vhud.jpg)






* One 12mm mounted on the '3-passenger door' (each side) would do nicely.

[Dharkbayne]

FRESH FROM IRC

<Dharkbayne> SporkfirePS, any plans for making vehicles bail outable for passengers?
<Flak> we played the penis game at track practice with anal leakage instead of penis :/
<SporkfirePS> You can bail, Dhark.
<Dharkbayne> Annyoing as hell when someone gets out of your sunderer and you have to completely stop when you're running from a reaver
<Dharkbayne> You can't get out when moving
<SporkfirePS> Ahh... You mean that it auto-slows down?
<Dharkbayne> yeah
<SporkfirePS> I'll talk to Smoke. That annoys me too.

[TheN00b]

Grey, even with what you suggested (and I love the drawings), the Sunderer would still suck. It's too big, too slow, too unwieldy, and has too little firepower. Wadda ya' think of my Emp-TT?

[FraudulentBob]

those 20mm guns chew through enemies like Oprah chews through a fruit cake.
:rofl: