New Patch Experiences

[TheN00b]

Post your experiences here with the new patch. Here's mine:

Tonight, the first night of the new patch being in effect, I was in Esamir with a small zerg trying to attack against a much larger VS force (I am NC). We were pushed back to the bridge between Freyr and the mainland, and one of the major contributing factors to that was the increased Lasher suppression that the new clip size enabled. However, once we were at the bridge, with the VS controlling a tower at one side and trying to come over, something amazing happened. Rather than having a couple of haphazard snipers and trying to push vehicles constantly over the bridge :rolleyes: , we simply pushed through a few Vanguards by providing huge suppressing fire with our plethora of Pheonixes. At some points, there were up to 50 Pheonix missiles in the air :eek: , and their charging Mags and MAXes were simply cut down in their tracks. Good times :D :love: :groovy: .

[HawkEye]

oh yea everyone and there mom has phoenix now, which is cool. but i hate what happened to the tripel shot it sux.

[321]

but i hate what happened to the tripel shot it sux.

The Jackhammer is just as usfull as it ever was. I mean I am a NC on Markov and always use the jackhammer but I never use the triple shots and I still get a bunch of kills.

[GreyFox]

Been surviving 2 shots from snipers several times with the P.shield. :)

Having lots of ammo with both the Bolt Driver and Lancer has been fun.

And yes, I did notice a lot of AV out there. Especially the Phoenix.

[flypengy]

Phx is a lot of time spent with little reward.

[Scorched_earth]

Yeh you won again by shire numbers with vangaurds and ur aa gun! Hide behind a tree or hill and use them to take off troops! Noobs!

[Dyentious]

The thing that kinda pisses me off about cyssor is, ok.. NC have their camera guided missiles that everybody has now, and the vanu can just come right over the water at you with their vehicles, but what the hell is the tr supposed to do in that situation?

Sucks to be TR on cyssor when the bridge battles are goin on

[BadAsh]

I just think it's cool now to fky over a TR base and actually get a lock on warning :) Looks like the TR will be able to put up better fights with hordes of strikers and the DC MAX being able to work with friendly infantry without bein a grief machine.

[Fragmatic]

Yes, you won again with your sheer amount of troops, Vangaurds and Phoenix users! Hide behind a tree or hill and use them to take off troops! Noobs!

1. Quote Fixed

2. Numbers don't count, it's tactics that matter. As far as I can see, the NC were using their weapons effectively. Do you think they'll charge out in a bridge battle with a Jackhammer? No, of course not! Just like you wouldn't dare use a Lasher at long range, because it's - a. Useless at distance, b. People could EASILY dodge projectiles.

Anti Vehicular weapons are MEANT to be used from cover (Phoenix has guided missile, Striker has lock-on, and Lancer has barely any time for projectile to reach the target).

So, In conclusion, THINK before you reply.

Don't come out with this "OMFG THEY WERE HIDING!!!"�!$�!" bullshits, they (The NC) were using their weapons effectively, and you had absolutely NO justification WHATSOEVER to throw the insult of "noob".

It's because of people like you who automatically assume something's everybody elses fault, that the weapons have changed so much. In beta, the game used to be alot more tactical, and, since release, weapon CoF bloom has been tightened so much on weapons, you can now jump as much as you want (but it cost's more stamina) because of people whinging.

The Punisher is (I think) the only weapon left with it's original CoF bloom, which was the highest anyway, but look how shit it is... the game used to be like that.

Quit whining, quit complaining, don't throw insults like that for no reason.

Grow some pubes and play the game.

[Fragmatic]

what the hell is the tr supposed to do in that situation?

Snipers taking out the Phoenix users, and fully loaded Deliverers driving Over the water in between the bridge struts, works a treat ;)

[RagingSpeedhorn]

Woo Fragster, how's the anger management classes going :)

It's early says for the patch, however I was a bit dissapointed with the Jackhammer nerf (basically less ammo and no quadshot). However, saying that it's the other buffs that will make the JH less attractive.

I believe the point was to stop noobs getting easy kills, especially taking out vereran players. The JH is still deadly at short range and still deadly in the hands of an experienced user, however what I am finding is that:

1. In field combat they get no where near me, it takes two plasma nades to take down Rexo, so I just fire off two thumper nades, switch to my primary weapon and they're dead before they get close.

2. The MAX buff means that indoors a Dual Cycler and take down Rexo in seconds, and there are a hell of a lot more MAXs about.

So, all in all, those who can handle a JH will continue, those that can't and got easy kills because there was no major opposition will uncert, whine, stamp their feet.....

[Fragmatic]

You know me rs, cool as a cucumber :P

Seriously though, if you were on teamspeak last night, I apologise for shouting about twats 99.9% of the time

[RagingSpeedhorn]

I was on MoX TS, you would have been on Oskake's, so I didn't hear you bawl like a child :) :) ;)

BTW I got some good fraps footage of the Gal raids last night, might put them into a mini movie...

[Fragmatic]

Noice ;)

I haven't had alot of time to test the new patch.

I do like the striker though, brilliant for VS maxes, and scring aircraft off.... and you can carry alot of ammo now :D

[KIAsan]

Back on topic,
I think the devs have managed to get the balance almost perfect. Most of the battles we had last night were very long, drawn out, and depended on strategy/opponents mistakes to turn the tide. A good example was that one fight on ISH last night. With both sides evenly matched, NC and TR were deadlocked. Luckily, we managed to take their tower and pull enough of their troops from offense to defense, which enabled us to switch to the offense. It was at that point that their attack faultered and we were eventually able to lock Ish back up again. All in all, it was a great battle.

I also saw more strikers in use than ever before. During the start of that one tower battle, we had so many strikers out, that the life expectancy of an enemy plane was measured in seconds. What a sight. It took a lot of armor to suppress us back into the tower (which pulled them off the offense).

FYI, loaded my "max av" favorite, and discovered I had 95 striker rounds!!!! OMG, I was in striker heaven! The flip side, I saw more pheonixs in flight than ever before as well (although they kept trying to suppress troops for some reason). Don't think they got very many infantry kills, but our armor had a lot of problems operating close to the target.

[Zatrais]

My experience whit the patch on a live server...

Vehicles, useless against the NC. Impossible to advance under the rain of phoenix missiles. AMS have to be placed outside range, else they're dead. Same for MAX suits. Vehicles against the NC, waste of time. Its just so mindnumbingly frustrating to try to fight an enemy you can't see or hit.

VS, same old, few more lances, more lashers. Not a huge difference, cept the loss of survivabilty of vehicles cause of the lancers.

[Scorched_earth]

Yes i know they r, just pisses me off! the vanu hav 1 gd weapons and thats the lasher!
the lancer is too weak even with this new ammo patch! ur torch pistol sucks and r med assult! maxes and mags r too weak! So annoys me that other empires hav the best selection of weapons!

[Fragmatic]

Personally i think the vanu r underpowered! I mean the worst pistol! The worst med assult gun! the worst av gun! All we have is a lasher! Since lasher 2.0 that hasnt been too great! The tr r over powered, the amazin cycler and mcg! plus hav that great av weapon (aa) With the best but worst lookin tank! The vanu tank shud ride over mines, then it wud own!

Yes i know they r, just pisses me off! the vanu hav 1 gd weapons and thats the lasher!
the lancer is too weak even with this new ammo patch! ur torch pistol sucks and r med assult! maxes and mags r too weak! So annoys me that other empires hav the best selection of weapons!

Ok, I don't think people understand this.
EACH FACTION HAS STRENGTHS AND WEAKNESSES
(I even colour coded it for you)

TR - Fast firing weaponary, less power per shot, and the worst accuracy. Large magazines . MAXs can anchor to improve fire rate.

NC - Heavy hitting weaponary, most power per shot, average accuracy, smallest magazines. MAXs can shield themselves.

VS - The versatile empire, have Normal/AP mode on pulsar/beamer/MAX with no reload, medium size magazines and good accuracy. Damage degredation. MAXs can jump jet out of harms way/into an ambush.

I left the MAX abilities white for the TR/NC, because they have advantages/disadvantages, IE - TR anchor is only good for defensive positions (stuck there), and the NC shield dissapears when you fire. The VS jumpjets can be used for attacking and defensive purposes.

Technically, the VS are the most balanced empire. They are the men in the middle, the equal slice of the cake, I wouldn't complain. The lasher is an exellent weapon, and so is the pulsar. People complain that the lasher is crap outdoors... ever tried using a JH/MCG outdoors? Exactly. (JH = No range, MCG = No accuracy, The Lasher is great outdoors, you just have to learn how to lead)

And the Pulsar/Beamer missing out to damage degredation, yes, it is a problem, but it's your only flaw, live with it. Shoot the enemy with AP shots first to tear up his/her armour, then use the normal fire mode. Works a treat.

The same goes for their vehicles

TR Prowler/Marauder - Fastest firing rate, good damage/armour/speed

NC Vanguard/Enforcer - Slowest firing rate, highest damage/armour/speed

VS Magrider/Thresher - Average firepower, lowest armour, fastest speed/mobility

(Not too sure on NC vehicle stats there)

But you must be saying "OH NOES! TEH VANU VEHICLES ARE WORSTS!!!!!!"
No.
They are balanced, they can outmaneuver the enemy, go over water, which makes them hard to hit with tank shells, and the weapons are LOS, no arc.

lashers r amazin! just spam doors with 10 other men! They suck in bases cus u hit alot of ur ownguys!

So spamming is a valid tactic, but hiding behind rocks/trees to guide a missile without getting killed isn't?
Again this comes down to using your weapons their best ways, lashers will waste everything with corridor spam, and hiding is the best way to use a phoenix, because you are defenseless when you are piloting a missile.
Learn to let go of the trigger so you don't hit friendlies.


Yeah, and also, the stats graph you posted in the first quote (removed to save space)... Hello PorkFryer! (Don't say it's not you, you have the char EVILoHOMER and also set that up as a PSU account) I personally feel that you are a waste of space on the forum database, with such worthless and pointless opinions and amount of dupe accounts you have.

[Liquidtide]

The thing that kinda pisses me off about cyssor is, ok.. NC have their camera guided missiles that everybody has now, and the vanu can just come right over the water at you with their vehicles, but what the hell is the tr supposed to do in that situation?

Sucks to be TR on cyssor when the bridge battles are goin on

You can lock down that Max of your's and keep the grenades or flak or what ever that TR stuff is flying at the bridge, you can't get anywhere when you have even 3 or 4 Maxes doing that.

~Tide

[prbountyhunter]

A locked down TR max = fodder for my phoenix.

I'm pretty happy with the patch because I've had AV for a long time and I get a new toy to play with. I'm also happy about the JH nerf. I hope it will make a lot of people drop HA in favor of support certs

[MidnightDave]

well I had a first for me last night. Im TR on Markov and I have (had now) a simple plan. Ill fight NC over VS anyday. I perfered fighting JH's rather than the Lasher which seemed to bypass my armor completely and go straight for my health. Well, although the lasher has gotten worse (not bitchin, just sayin) I now perfer to fight the VS than the NC, our outfit left a battle with an NC force to go pick a fight with the VS. Why you may ask?

CAUSE THERE WERE ABOUT 600 MOTHERFCKING PHEONIXES BEING USED TO SNIPE INFANTRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Isnt the pheonix suppose to be an AV weapon as in anti-VEHICULAR!? Why then are the NC able to effectivly use it to snipe us infantry without ever opening themselves up for attack. Even the Lancer, Boltdriver, anything has to open itself up to attack infantry, why should the NC be special. Now I was getting owned by them in my lighting but I didnt mind, they are AV and If u can hit a fast moving lighting from the side, more power to ya, i cant shoot those things to save my life. I am not bitchin about the camera part of it, if u can fly a missle into a moving tank, good on ya. But for the love of god the damage vrs infantry needs to be (I hate to use the word) nerfed just a bit. I dont mind the JH, even though im not noticing the supposed nerf. Hell, I dont even really mind the lasher buff, it sucks but ill manage, just need to pack med packs and grab med cert when I have the points.


Thats my rant, no flames please.

[Fenrys]

A single box of bullets is more than enough for my Reaver.

My NC char already had AV, so being given the Deci for free was very nice.

TR MAX spam seems as effective as ever (from the recieving end anyway).

The AV ammo changes make looting nme AV much more appealing.

[TheN00b]

Two things: First, to Fragmatic, may God bless you for putting Scorched_Earth down :) ; he needed it :rolleyes: . Second to Dave. Dave, I think the current problem with the Pheonix is not the power of it's AI damage, which takes four shots to take down one trooper, but the sheer popularity of it. Becuase this is the latest patch, everyone has grabbed the Pheonix, and the result is a veritable hailstorm of camera-guided missiles. The only solution to this, as far as I can see, is using Reavers as they were meant to be used in large numbers, i.e. swooping in and doing some non-stop spamming, rather than turretting and making yourself the perfect target for the Pheonixes.

[gonnagetyou]

Every weapons patch is the same. People immediately go out and try all the new changes and the sheer number of people using them makes it appear unbalancing. I wouldn't worry, the experienced people will adapt and overcome and then the rest will follow. This game has a counter to everything and it only takes a little time and effort before people find it. Don't fall in love with using one combo of weapons or vehicles. Try different certs and adapt. Don't be afraid to change the way you play.

Last night I think every TR was carrying a Striker. So I countered by flying low, fast and using cover and in general was as sneaky as possible in my mossie. It kept me alive a long time once I got into the groove of it. And with the mossie carrying over 1500 rounds of ammo now I had no problems spraying bullets all over the place and getting kills.

I will say that MAX units are in trouble though. I'm not even afraid of MAXs if I'm in Agile. You can already see where infantry in Rexo with AV and HA/SA/or MA is going to be king. There's no timer for Rexo and even though MAX units may take a few with them, you won't be able to pump out enough MAX units as fast as you can Rexo. Numbers and speed still count for a lot in this game. I still enjoy playing MAXs though.

[TheN00b]

Yep, right now, MAXes are fairly screwed over. Last night, only a brave few MAXes dared peep over the walls to fire, and those were rather quickly put down.

[Fragmatic]

Two things: First, to Fragmatic, may God bless you for putting Scorched_Earth down :) ; he needed it :rolleyes:

Frag has lots of pent up anger :(

[MidnightDave]

ya u are right, noob I just got tired of getting 30 camera guided missles coming at this same hillside where I was tryin to shoot at a vanguard (which my stupid ass striker would lock on to unless I did a voodoo dance) snipers were getting sniped by pheonixes, it was sad.

[Fragmatic]

The thing is, the NC have always used Phoenix's as a sniper weapon, it's just a fad that will pass....

Heck, remember when the Lodestar first came out? :lol:

[TheN00b]

Indeed Frag, indeed.

[Veteran]

What if Decimator was NC's AV weapon and Phoenix became common pool with a slight damage buff?

[noxious]

All I've decided from this patch thus far is wow, the lasher was buffed a lot. It may not seem like much but being able to lash at pointblank is an amazingly big buff. This, coupled with only 3 seconds of downtime for reload and a clip that can easily drop 3 enemies before that relod, and goodness, you have quite a weapon on your hands.

[Uberpimp]

So maxes are royally screwed!? aww I was thinking of making an armoured division with my friends.. (real ones not internent buddies WHICH are ok) Would've been nice. sigh

[Uberpimp]

But I personally think MAX users are the bravest and most patient people of all. They have to put up with a LOT of crap. Slow turning so unless some noob or retarded vet runs DIRECTLY in front of one boom your screwed. Plus theres so many other ways to die but I'm having a brain fart right now so a little help.... (no offense to any softies outhere) :fro:

[TheN00b]

Veteran, that might be a good idea, except for one thing: if we got the Decimator as our Emp AV, then you guys wouldn't have it. And that would make us too good in comparison to you guys against indoor MAXes :( .

[Unknown]

The reason for the mass AV usage is 3-fold:

Ammo buff, carrying AV is much more feasable now that you have enough ammo to do some damage.
It's new and improved, people want to try them out. For some this is temporary and they may forget it later, but I'm guessing most will keep it.
Probably most importantly, Deci was moved to AV, and since most of the people with SA had it only for the Deci, when it moved to AV they all forgot SA and switched to AV.

We'll see how it plays out in the next week or two, but I'm guessing the mass AV usage is going to become somewhat of a standard.

[Rbstr]

I have to say all the people using pheonixes to snipe infantry are fools, your also a fool for getting killed by one.

The thing taks 5 shots to kill a infantry, thats over ten seconds TTK, anyone thats out in the open ten seconds deserves to die.

And if you say it can go around anything, the Truning radious on a phx is terrible, it can't hit a person if they are behind a wide object.

The JH is fixed, the stupid quadshot made me mad.

[MidnightDave]

rbstr the ttk from pheonix attacks is about .1 seconds when 50 or so are flying at the same mountainside/area. Me and the others didnt complain when 1 pheonix took us, we complained when a zerg armed to the teeth with em got us, it makes it appear overpowered, and severely limits tr/vs options to attack a base when we cant get from the tower to the gate without getting a barrage of missles from guys with 2 launchers and a rexo full of ammo who sit behind walls/in doorways/the other side of the freaking base.

Thats why I was bitching. Armor didnt stand a chance, I saw 6 prowlers die within a period of 15 seconds and infantry wasnt doing much better, it finally took an ams/router way outta the pheonix range and a pad really well done inside the base to take it. Spawning at the tower was a deathtrap.

[TheN00b]

Rbstr, I hate to admit it (I'm only NC), but Dave is right: The danger isn't from one Pheonix user taking you down, it's from freaking clouds of them that occur at things like bridge battles. Last night, for example, I was fighting a bridge battle on Esamir, and those of us not in Vanguards or Air (around 70) mostly grabbed Pheonixes. All we had to do was crouch behind large rocks or hills, and we slaughtered any vehicle, MAX, or infantry that showed it's face from behind the trees. Some of the Mags that tried to cross were hit by over 50 rockets at once :lol: . It was kinda' sick :groovy: .

[MidnightDave]

thanks noob, similar experience from the other standpoint was a battle for gunuku last night. If those bridges werent a SOB to get across before, my god. It took an organized deliv offensive over the water to grab a foothold. That was a my life for a magrider situation.

[Madcow]

thanks noob, similar experience from the other standpoint was a battle for gunuku last night. If those bridges werent a SOB to get across before, my god. It took an organized deliv offensive over the water to grab a foothold. That was a my life for a magrider situation.

I was there, that was one of the better battles I've had a chance to play in. TR pushing in from the north, VS from the south and Gunuku was the only base the NC had left. Somehow we (the NC) kept Gunuku going long enough that the VS backhacked enough bases from the TR to pull them away from their offensive. Once they pulled back we pushed to the SE tower and took it after a long fight from the VS. Then the massive bridge battle which kept going back and forth and which I unfortunately had to log off in the middle of.
The only thing that tainted the battle were the flails on both sides which were just raining death on friend and foe alike.
I did get to see the Phoenix numbers in action, although I wasn't one of the culprits. Watching a Magrider trying to flee across the water with 3 Phoenix missiles right on his tail was actually a refreshing sight to see. Watching Phoenix missiles pounding everything moving on the other side of the bridge was less refreshing, but pretty stinking effective. It was also nice enough to distract a few people from paying attention to those of us infils who made our way across.

[MidnightDave]

lol ya man, I nearly shot a few of our own flails myself. and as for the vs for once, couldnt they have not backhacked us? those SOBs

[Queensidecastle]

I have a rule where if I see a Flail TK 5 or more people at once I send them a tell congratulating on how much they rock at Planetside

[MidnightDave]

lol then u would have loved this guy. he set up a flail and fired in teh main door of a tech plant, at point blank range. He got 30 at once, I blew him up with my lighting.

[TheN00b]

Seriously, if Flails were used well, they'd be great, but as they are, they're one of the worst things in Planetside.

[Vick]

Two issues:

1. Mass strikers against air craft and mass phoenix use against everything else seems kinda lame.

2. Lasher buff and rexo buff is perfect for vanubes, now they can absorb tons of damage while firing blindly and still hitting you. The reload-clip buff was fine, but that 5m no lash was there for a reason.

[Madcow]

Yep, I was amazed as I watched a great bridge battle get destroyed by flails as they had absolutely no way to differentiate between friend and foe as we were all on the bridge at once. Obviously the grief point penalty isn't nearly severe enough as I saw one flail in particular on the VS side that must have killed VS at a 2:1 ratio against NC. If I died, I saw at least 2 VS that went down with me. Weapons lock can not come fast enough.

[Rbstr]

Two issues:

1. Mass strikers against air craft and mass phoenix use against everything else seems kinda lame.

2. Lasher buff and rexo buff is perfect for vanubes, now they can absorb tons of damage while firing blindly and still hitting you. The reload-clip buff was fine, but that 5m no lash was there for a reason.

the reason was to prevent lashing of your own teamsmates, but they changed it so the lasher would not lash teamates at all anymore(beta stuff)

[Queensidecastle]

I think after you TK a score of people with a Flail you need to be done for the evening. Or at least be forcebly removed from your vehicle and have it lock on you

[jsloan31]

TR - Fast firing weaponary, less power per shot, and the worst accuracy. Large magazines . MAXs can anchor to improve fire rate.



ok, this might be a little out of date now, if it is, don't flame me please :p.

think about this: the guns do less power per shot, right? right. but: Fast Firing. you can get about 20 shots in a few seconds with the chain gun, i dunno, havent been playing TR much. if you have little damage per shot, but a few dozen bullets flying down a crowded NME backdoor, that's a lot of damage done. maybe this has been nerfed since the latest patch, i dunno.

just my thinking here, i could be wrong (no one's perfect).

[gonnagetyou]

The mass use of Phoenixs by the NC isn't new. I can remember battles when the game came out when it was quit common. The sky would be full of 15 - 20 at a time. Heck, I even participated in a few with my own NC character. It sort of died out though when people discovered the surge/agile/jackhammer combo. Having that many people use Phoenixs also limits your ability to actually assault a base. Yea, you may be killing everything topside, but all your buddies actually trying to take the base get their butts handed to them. Phoenix users aren't very mobile and are nice targets for any aircraft or good cloaker.

[TheN00b]

GGY, people are not talking about Pheonix groups of 15-20 people; they're talking about Pheonix groups of 50-70 people. Groups that large can effectively target infantry as well as vehicles. And as for your statement about how Pheonix users can't actually take a base, a large amount of the Pheonix users I see are ReXo's with the Pheonix and the Jackhammer.

[Fragmatic]

if you have little damage per shot, but a few dozen bullets flying down a crowded NME backdoor, that's a lot of damage done.

Exactly.

But it's even.

Lets say, for instance, we had a firing range. There's 2 Vanu guys up on that range, ready to be executed. As for the executioners, we have an NC guy wielding a gauss, and a TR guy wielding a cycler.

They both take aim at a Vanu and fire at exactly the same time!

*BANGBANGBANGBANGBANGBANGBANGBANG...(etc)*

Two Vanu soldiers drop to the floor within a second of eachother

The weapons are balanced, because - the TR weapons are weaker but faster, the NC weapons are stronger but slower. They cancel eachother out, hence why the Vanu guys died within a second of eachother!

"But what about the Vanu weapons?" - I hear you cry

Well, Versatility is their main feature.

Vanu weapons are more accurate, and have no need for 2 ammo types (ap/normal at the click of a button) They're not as powerful, but have a good firing rate as well.

[Veteran]

If you deal a strong punch, your enemy may never get to fire back.

If you fire a series of weak punches, your enemy may get a strong punch in on you after the first one or two, ending your third, fourth, etc.

Empire Flavor is purely flawed. There's no rationalizing the irrational.

edit: If getting hit with a bullet caused any disruption whatsoever to the target, it might be worth it to be using rapid fire, like low-kicks in fighting games. In PlanetSide, however, getting shot doesn't mess with you in any way nearly serious enough to keep you from turning your cannon on him and blasting him away post haste.

Don't even get me started on how superior "versitility" is to "shoot fast" and "hit hard". It hurts my brain.

[VashTheStamped]

Planetside is relatively balanced you idiots!!
(or it will be if stop whinning)

Each weapon has andvantages AND disadvantages!

No weapon is an "uber-kill" and no weapon is "the worst"
(applies to weapons of the type, i.e. HA and HA not HA and MA)

In your instruction manual that came with planetside it said that on a shot-per-shot basis the NC ws suppossed to be stronger,

It says TR have more bullets, but less DMG per bullet

VS have ok in all areas. ok range, ok DMG, and ok bullets

-------------------
Do the math:
-------------------
Lots of Bullets + Med DMG + short range = 10 (10 is a relative example based number)
Med range + Med DMG + Med Bullets = 10
High DMG + Low Bullets + short range = 10

thereby NC=TR=VS
-------------------

and look at you!

you beg for nerfs so much that shot-per-shot the JH is worse than the sweeper

you beg for nerfs so much that total chaaos has come upon auraxis

please, stop and think if your whinning because theres an unfair adavantage from you to others,

OR are you just whining so you can have better guns than the enemy, and will be able to slaughter them esily.

Im appalled to see all these whiny people with no idea what they are talking about get their whiny wrong way

Planetside will be fine without your constant beg for nerfs and other perifinalia of the type

Dont whine to make yourself "cheat" to the top of the ladder

Play Fair, and try actually comparing each weapon to each other.

Disclamer: No, just because i use NC refeences, doesnt mean i want to be the strongest either; I want whats best for the game, and best for the balancing issues.

[Fragmatic]

Planetside is relatively balanced you idiots!!
(or it will be if stop whinning)

Each weapon has andvantages AND disadvantages!

No weapon is an "uber-kill" and no weapon is "the worst"
(applies to weapons of the type, i.e. HA and HA not HA and MA)

In your instruction manual that came with planetside it said that on a shot-per-shot basis the NC ws suppossed to be stronger,

It says TR have more bullets, but less DMG per bullet

VS have ok in all areas. ok range, ok DMG, and ok bullets

-------------------
Do the math:
-------------------
Lots of Bullets + Med DMG + short range = 10 (10 is a relative example based number)
Med range + Med DMG + Med Bullets = 10
High DMG + Low Bullets + short range = 10

thereby NC=TR=VS
-------------------

and look at you!

you beg for nerfs so much that shot-per-shot the JH is worse than the sweeper

you beg for nerfs so much that total chaaos has come upon auraxis

please, stop and think if your whinning because theres an unfair adavantage from you to others,

OR are you just whining so you can have better guns than the enemy, and will be able to slaughter them esily.

Im appalled to see all these whiny people with no idea what they are talking about get their whiny wrong way

Planetside will be fine without your constant beg for nerfs and other perifinalia of the type

Dont whine to make yourself "cheat" to the top of the ladder

Play Fair, and try actually comparing each weapon to each other.

Disclamer: No, just because i use NC refeences, doesnt mean i want to be the strongest either; I want whats best for the game, and best for the balancing issues.


Agree 100%

As I said, the punisher is the only unchanged weapon, and you would all say "its a pile of steaming shit"

Exactly, planetside used to be "shit" (that was sarcasm, it was a much better game)

It's turning into Quakeside, and it's pissing me off.

[BadAsh]

Planetside is relatively balanced you idiots!!
(or it will be if stop whinning)

Each weapon has andvantages AND disadvantages!

No weapon is an "uber-kill" and no weapon is "the worst"
(applies to weapons of the type, i.e. HA and HA not HA and MA)

In your instruction manual that came with planetside it said that on a shot-per-shot basis the NC ws suppossed to be stronger,

It says TR have more bullets, but less DMG per bullet

VS have ok in all areas. ok range, ok DMG, and ok bullets

-------------------
Do the math:
-------------------
Lots of Bullets + Med DMG + short range = 10 (10 is a relative example based number)
Med range + Med DMG + Med Bullets = 10
High DMG + Low Bullets + short range = 10

thereby NC=TR=VS
-------------------

and look at you!

you beg for nerfs so much that shot-per-shot the JH is worse than the sweeper

you beg for nerfs so much that total chaaos has come upon auraxis

please, stop and think if your whinning because theres an unfair adavantage from you to others,

OR are you just whining so you can have better guns than the enemy, and will be able to slaughter them esily.

Im appalled to see all these whiny people with no idea what they are talking about get their whiny wrong way

Planetside will be fine without your constant beg for nerfs and other perifinalia of the type

Dont whine to make yourself "cheat" to the top of the ladder

Play Fair, and try actually comparing each weapon to each other.

Disclamer: No, just because i use NC refeences, doesnt mean i want to be the strongest either; I want whats best for the game, and best for the balancing issues.

The problem with your analysis is that you are not considering effective combinations. Take the dreaded Jack+Agile+Surge combo... you are right in that every weapon has it's strengths and weaknesses... but when there is a combination of equipment and implants or whatever can compensate for a weakness you can circumvent the built in counter to a strength. Thus you become all strength rather than the designed strength and weakness.

In the above example the Jack's weakness is range and Surge helps close the gap with your target especially when paired with Agile Armor. Now had there been an implant that would somehow keep an opponent at medium to long range then there would have been a combination for other empires (teams). But, this was not the case so for a long time one team has a distinctive advantage. And they still do.

Then there is your "math"... It looks good on paper, but when 2 teams are pretty balanced statistically and with one team being WAY ahead of the curve as far as killing and base capturing goes something is wrong especially since this statistical disparity is seen across all 3 servers evenly.

The root cause of this is that way back in the early conceptual development phase the aesthetic game design decision was made rather than the even/balanced game design decision.

So rather than 3 evenly balanced teams with players having equal access to equivalent and equal equipment you have 3 �flavors� or empires that have strengths and weaknesses that can be exploited. This causes all of the frustration you are seeing which ironically you are becoming frustrated with :)

[VashTheStamped]

The problem with your analysis is that you are not considering effective combinations. Take the dreaded Jack+Agile+Surge combo... you are right in that every weapon has it's strengths and weaknesses... but when there is a combination of equipment and implants or whatever can compensate for a weakness you can circumvent the built in counter to a strength. Thus you become all strength rather than the designed strength and weakness.

In the above example the Jack's weakness is range and Surge helps close the gap with your target especially when paired with Agile Armor. Now had there been an implant that would somehow keep an opponent at medium to long range then there would have been a combination for other empires (teams). But, this was not the case so for a long time one team has a distinctive advantage. And they still do.

Then there is your "math"... It looks good on paper, but when 2 teams are pretty balanced statistically and with one team being WAY ahead of the curve as far as killing and base capturing goes something is wrong especially since this statistical disparity is seen across all 3 servers evenly.

The root cause of this is that way back in the early conceptual development phase the aesthetic game design decision was made rather than the even/balanced game design decision.

So rather than 3 evenly balanced teams with players having equal access to equivalent and equal equipment you have 3 �flavors� or empires that have strengths and weaknesses that can be exploited. This causes all of the frustration you are seeing which ironically you are becoming frustrated with :)

have you noticed Surge makes ALL wepons more effictive!

of course Surge vs No Surge , surge will win, but instead of whining, get surge yourself

And the use of weapons with agile armor, makes you go fster! whadda know!

Lighter armor + Surge = Faster Person. wow. diddnt take a genious to come up with that answer.

[Fragmatic]

have you noticed Surge makes ALL wepons more effictive!

of course Surge vs No Surge , surge will win, but instead of whining, get surge yourself

And the use of weapons with agile armor, makes you go fster! whadda know!

Lighter armor + Surge = Faster Person. wow. diddnt take a genious to come up with that answer.

Higher mouse sensitivity = better aiming against surgile monkeys = dead surgiles

Simple as.

[VashTheStamped]

Higher mouse sensitivity = better aiming against surgile monkeys = dead surgiles

Simple as.
indeed. glad were on the same 'page'

[BadAsh]

have you noticed Surge makes ALL wepons more effictive!

of course Surge vs No Surge , surge will win, but instead of whining, get surge yourself

And the use of weapons with agile armor, makes you go fster! whadda know!

Lighter armor + Surge = Faster Person. wow. diddnt take a genious to come up with that answer.

You missed the point. With my example above Surge when combined with the jackhammer and agile armor lets you get to CQB ASAP. Why a problem you ask?

The Jack has no meduim or long range. In return for that it's the king of CQB TTK. The Lasher and MCG have a meduim range, but at the cost of a slower CQB TTK. So, get yourself a Jack, Surge, and Agile and win by staying at long/medium range for much shorter periods of time. Surge only works with forward movement, so you can't back peddal away fast enough so you end up fighing an opponent with a weapon that kills faster than yours...

As I states the other 2 empires do not have a similar combination that makes them as effective so...

[TheN00b]

Another thing is that I really dislike the 'If you can't beat 'em, join 'em' syndrome. There should be more effective ways to defeat weapon X then having weapon X.

[Rbstr]

So your saying the TR ans VS don't have surgiles? Your horribly wrong, both the lasher and the MCG are equaly capable and surging in killing two peol and dies just like JH surgiles do.

Also surge works all ways.
If your realy hate Surgiles so much take Pshield and watch as a whole trishot just bounces off

[Angel_of_Death]

Planetside is relatively balanced you idiots!!
(or it will be if stop whinning)

Each weapon has andvantages AND disadvantages!

First of all, stopping the whining will not make the game auto-balance. Whining brings certain equipment's effectiveness to the devs attention, where they can analyze what needs to be done to even out the situation. Obviously you're right, every weapon has advantages and disadvantages, but when some weapons' overall advantages, outweigh the others then something needs to be done.

No weapon is an "uber-kill" and no weapon is "the worst"
(applies to weapons of the type, i.e. HA and HA not HA and MA)

There are weapons which are clearly the worst in its category, ie. Beamer, Thresher, Pulsar. (Note: I am VS, and it's true that these are the worst in there categories. I can't say that anything NC or TR is the worst in any category, because most of the other categories are more or less, well-balanced. This is an unbiased opinion as I play alot with all 3 empires.)

In your instruction manual that came with planetside it said that on a shot-per-shot basis the NC ws suppossed to be stronger,
It says TR have more bullets, but less DMG per bullet
VS have ok in all areas. ok range, ok DMG, and ok bullets

The instruction manual means nothing. This is a MMO game and things change, alot of things. The manual says alot of things that are completely untrue now, like the Prowler having the most armor, and being the biggest, baddest tank.

-------------------
Do the math:
-------------------
Lots of Bullets + Med DMG + short range = 10 (10 is a relative example based number)
Med range + Med DMG + Med Bullets = 10
High DMG + Low Bullets + short range = 10

thereby NC=TR=VS
-------------------

In theory, those equations should be true, but as it stands in PS, they're not even close to being correct.

you beg for nerfs so much that shot-per-shot the JH is worse than the sweeper

you beg for nerfs so much that total chaaos has come upon auraxis

If the shot-per-shot for the JH is worse than the Sweeper, why is it that nobody uses the Sweeper, and every NC still uses the JH?

It's war, and an MMO, expect chaos.

In reply to other posts, if you have a problem with surgiles, grab surge yourself. The Lasher and MCG are both good surge tools. I have never found anything wrong with being surged on, or surging myself.

[Rbstr]

The pulsar has a higher TTK than the cycler even on Rexo is you know whern to use the AP.

If those equations aren't even mostly correct why is it that the NC done't just have every continent under its control at all times? It because the game is ballence in an unballenced sort of way, every weapons is overpowered and underpowered in its own way.

And you can't say, "Well the NC don't always win because we have more skill" becuase you have just as many noobs

[Angel_of_Death]

The pulsar has a higher TTK than the cycler even on Rexo is you know whern to use the AP.

If those equations aren't even mostly correct why is it that the NC done't just have every continent under its control at all times? It because the game is ballence in an unballenced sort of way, every weapons is overpowered and underpowered in its own way.

And you can't say, "Well the NC don't always win because we have more skill" becuase you have just as many noobs

I didn't propose that the NC were easily the best, and own the other empires no matter what. The NC have better equipment, regardless of what you guys say, but there are other factors that come into play during this game: luck being one of the biggest factors, as well as the population of the fights, and tag-teams (10 v 5, 2v1, ya know). These 3 are the biggest, but there are other smaller factors: the terrain, scenario, different types of players (how many vehicles, air support, MAXs, etc.).

Every empire has just as many new players, as well as just as many skilled players, so skill is not a factor that turns the tide of a battle.

[BadAsh]

So your saying the TR ans VS don't have surgiles? Your horribly wrong, both the lasher and the MCG are equaly capable and surging in killing two peol and dies just like JH surgiles do.

Also surge works all ways.
If your realy hate Surgiles so much take Pshield and watch as a whole trishot just bounces off

Where did I say that the TR and VS don't have surgiles??? They just don't have a CQB waepon with the TTK of the Jack. So... the NC have a significant advantage when using surge against other HA (MCG and the Lasher)... because they kill faster... makin sense yet? :)

This and other factors are why the average NC player racks up almost 20% more kills than any other empire. This is not game balance, which is my "big picture" point.

Nerfs and Buffs are balance adjustments and are needed until the playing field is actually even. Then things like teamwork, tactics, and skill will be the deciding factor for victory conditions rather than who has better weapons, tanks, or whatever.

[noxious]

have you noticed Surge makes ALL wepons more effictive!

of course Surge vs No Surge , surge will win, but instead of whining, get surge yourself

And the use of weapons with agile armor, makes you go fster! whadda know!

Lighter armor + Surge = Faster Person. wow. diddnt take a genious to come up with that answer.


First off, I have no problem with surge, or the jackhammer. I don't want them nerfed or anything else buffed. That being said, we must first agree that at pointblank the Jackhammer wins. I don't think anyone will disagree with this. If this is true, than surge will give a greater increase to the Jackhammers maximum effectiveness than it will to the Lasher or MiniChaingun. The simple reason being that if you use surge to close range (this is why I use it and why I think most use it) than you are moving into the Jackhammer's kill zone that much quicker.

[Veteran]

"There are weapons which are clearly the worst in its category, ie. Beamer, Thresher, Pulsar. (Note: I am VS, and it's true that these are the worst in there categories"

So wrong in so many ways. Sorry, Barney.

[WritheNC]

You said:

(Note: I am VS, and it's true that these are the worst in there categories.

Then you said:

This is an unbiased opinion as I play alot with all 3 empires.

So, are you Vanu like you first stated, or do you play all empires with equal amount of time? Does that mean you have an unbiased opinion?

[VashTheStamped]

First off, I have no problem with surge, or the jackhammer. I don't want them nerfed or anything else buffed. That being said, we must first agree that at pointblank the Jackhammer wins. I don't think anyone will disagree with this. If this is true, than surge will give a greater increase to the Jackhammers maximum effectiveness than it will to the Lasher or MiniChaingun. The simple reason being that if you use surge to close range (this is why I use it and why I think most use it) than you are moving into the Jackhammer's kill zone that much quicker.
well its a shotgun...think about it if it were a real life gun/

shotguns at point nlan range kill.
:)

[Vick]

yeah and my tank hovers in real life

[Angel_of_Death]

So, are you Vanu like you first stated, or do you play all empires with equal amount of time? Does that mean you have an unbiased opinion?

I concentrate mainly on my VS account, so I consider myself VS, but I do play with the other empires. And I notice that there are certain things unbalanced with every empire, even VS. Also, the fact that I realize this is just a game, and I don't give a fuck about it, allows me to see the bigger picture.

So wrong in so many ways. Sorry, Barney.

Did you have an argument ready, or just a "no" was all you had planned out?