Require LOS with the Phoenix?

[Colonel Nikolai]

I've noticed an unfortunate trend among the AV weapons. The Striker requires a LOS. The Lancer requires an LOS. But the Phoenix can be fired out a door of a tower, wrapped around a few trees, and slammed into a tank hiding in a ditch. I think that's a little bit unfair, don't you? Even arcing rounds over hills and into infantry is a rather annoying thing. You can't hit back with any of your weapons and the NC are free to slug away. What's worse, I've noticed a habit of Phoenix rounds to fly through gates, turn at courtyards, and slam into vehicle terms. That's just wrong, people.

I'd like to see the Phoenix missiles require a constant LOS back to the launcher, and will lose their homing and fly dumbfire if it is broken. This could represent the IR or radio waves sending the signal to the missile, so its perfectly plausable. Consider it; it would mean that AV troops are always required to be somewhat exposed, which makes it a fairer fight between tanks and infantry.

I do recognize that every empire gets its strenghts and weaknesses, but the Phoenix doesn't require a lock and is still guided. I think its just a little balancing tweak. I know you NC won't like it, but fair -is- fair. Ahh well, flame away.

A note: wire-guided missiles can snag on brush and the like, which can't be modeled.

[Happy lil Elf]

Ok, that's it. Can we get the smilie where they stand around beating on a dead horse?

[Hamma]

:lol:

[Fragmatic]

The thing is, the NC have always used Phoenix's as a sniper weapon, it's just a fad that will pass....

Heck, remember when the Lodestar first came out? :lol:

[TheN00b]

Nik, no worries man, the fad will pass,at least moderately, in a few days/weeks.

[Dharkbayne]

I'm pretty sure the NC have to reload after every shot, and they are COMPLETELY undefended while guiding said missle though. It's balanced. Stop bitching.

[TheN00b]

Dharkbayne, those two factors are completely true, and they are both detriments to the Pheonix. However,Nik is not just bitching. It's quite easy to find cover behind a large ridge or some scattered rock formations, and once you've done that, the hailstorm of Pheonix fire can be a little unfair, even though you have to reload after every shot.

[Dharkbayne]

Personally, I love fighting pheonixs, because if you flank them, it's impossible to die from them.

[Happy lil Elf]

No, Nik is not bitching. He's beating a dead horse. This has already been argued over and over and over and over and over.

This horse [issue at hand] is dead. Please stop beating [pointlessly arguing] it.

[BadAsh]

I'm pretty sure the NC have to reload after every shot, and they are COMPLETELY undefended while guiding said missle though. It's balanced. Stop bitching.

Those 2 nano-specks of negativity are inconsequential compared to the strengths of the weapon. It�s base power and havoc causing capabilities are truly unparalleled in the game. The Phoenix is still the undisputed KING of AV.

However, against soft targets the damage is manageable. If you start getting hit and you are on foot just locate the user and kill him. The Phoenix's range is somewhat limited, thankfully, so you know they can�t be too far away. Start hunting.

It is nice to see the boost in the number of AV troops out there. Combined with the recent mowing nerfs this should make vehicle kills be a little more earned... which is a good thing.

[Dharkbayne]

That is the pheonix's only benifit. Being able to attack from out of sight, if it WERE in sight, the pheonix user would become the biggest cloaker/sniper target in the game

[JakeLogan]

I understand your point. The Phoenix can attack you from perfect cover. but they can't see around themselves when it happens. but they can't like the TR strafe while firing in the middle of a battlefield. Or like the VS put 6 shots into your vehicle at extreme distances. each empires AV weapon has it's strength. but for the time being the Phoenix is the King of AV.

[dscytherulez]

In case you haven't noticed, phoenix NEEDS to be able to hide. One shot, then reload...not to mention you are completely open to attack from cloakers and the like while you're guiding the missle.

The no LOS is the only thing that makes the phoenix worth using. Stop complaining.

[MidnightDave]

while I currently hate the pheonix due to the zerg of em, kind of makes you sh*t your pants when u see 60 camera guided missles flying at you, I think making LOS is not the answer, and kind of defeats the purpose of em. Before the patch I actually loved to see em, it was kind of beautiful to see human flown rockets doing damage like that, im just tired of every JH noob who didnt like the fact that their precious shotgun didnt have a quad shot grabbing av and using that.

[SilverLord]

No. Let them hide and use their AV like it should be. They can't lock on which blows and us TR have lock, thanks :)

:rant off:

[Dharkbayne]

I've never tried it, but I hear the pheonix royally sucks VS air

[TheN00b]

Sortof. You're right that the Pheonix blows against good air, but bad air is a different story. If a pilot is good, he'll do sweeping runs against Pheonix's, always moving and suppressing with MG's until good rocket-spamming range is acchieved, and then the Pheonix user(s) is/are fucked. But if the pilot is bad, then he's more likely to turret, which makes him the perfect target for us: even if he realizes his mistake, there'll already be missiles inbound, and even an aircraft's accel will be too slow to escape.

[MidnightDave]

example of bad air


Mosquito hover strafing back and forth behind a bunker shooting us, I arm deci, fire, take him down. I loved that I got something like 1500 xp for that one kill. He started to send me hate tells, finally had to put him on ignore. lol

[Mudflap]

1 air unit + 1 pheonix user = dead pheonix user......easily.

The pheonix is the slowest TTK AV weapon there is. No LOS is its only advantage, and it adds the disadvantage of being cloaker/sniper bait. The Pheonix is just fun, so you'll see alot of people using it. That's the only real reason you see so many pheonix kills.

[TheN00b]

Mudflap, your equation is correct, but this one is far more relevant :

1 Hovering Air Unit+20 Pheonix Users=Charred Aircraft Hulk

Thats what was happening last night.

[HawkEye]

I'd like to see the Phoenix missiles require a constant LOS back to the launcher, and will lose their homing

phoenix dosent have homing capabilities it is camera guidied, that is the person whop fires it steers it so thats why it goes around tries and shit like that.

[prbountyhunter]

All the NC have to do is complain about how they can't fly over a base without getting a lock on from about 400000000000 billion million strikers, and not stop complaining about it until the devs nerf it.

Come on NC take a hint from the whiners and start complaining. I used to do it when I was 5 and it worked all the time

[Lithpope]

All the NC have to do is complain about how they can't fly over a base without getting a lock on from about 400000000000 billion million strikers, and not stop complaining about it until the devs nerf it.

Come on NC take a hint from the whiners and start complaining. I used to do it when I was 5 and it worked all the time



That is assuming the damn things actually lock and all 400000000000 of them are not all bugged at the same time :p

[shaizan]

What a Phoenix can do is fairly nuts. No matter what the TTK is is not relevent under recent circumstances. Those circumstances being that there are a legion of Phoenix users out there. Therefore, the TTK seems worse than it is. I do not think adjustments need to be made in this regard.

I am quite tired of being sniped on foot by the bloody things. It is somewhat like the Lancer when it's AI damage was out of wack. I am of the opinion that the AI damage potential of the Phoenix needs to be looked at. It is quite frustrating to get hit repeatedly and not have a blessed clue who/where the God forsaken NC Acarchist is.

It was said earlier, and I agree...the Phoenix is the king of AV. As a result few things bring me more happiness in PS than stabbing an in flight Phoenix user with my knife in an infil suit, or AMPing them to death. I know that some friendly on the other side is likely going to live to fight another day.

[Happy lil Elf]

1 Hovering Air Unit+20 Pheonix Users=Charred Aircraft Hulk

If you hover while there are enemy around who have AV weapons, you deserve to die. Your equation works equally if the person shooting is using the Lancer, the Striker or even the Decimator in place of the Phoenix.

Bad argument.

It was said earlier, and I agree...the Phoenix is the king of AV.

No, that would be the Decimator, but thanks for playing! Why the decimator? Because the Deci performs where it's important: Inside bases. Outdoors is all gravy. No AV weapon kills infantry or Vehicles nearly as well as Vehicles do.

But for the sake of this idiotic argument, lets talk about outdoors. The Striker is the king of AA, there's no argument here. The Pheonix works great against MAXs outdoors, but then so does the Striker. With multiple users who know what they're doing the Pheonix can also put the hurt on tanks too, of course so can the Striker or Lancer. I will agree that the Lancer is the biggest pain in the ass to use effectively out of the three but with some practice it competes very well against both of it's counterparts.

Yes you can snipe with a Pheonix, of course it's not effective, wastes a ton of ammo and, in general, is just plain a stupid thing to do. So, personally? I couldn't care less if they nerfed the AI damage to do a max of 1 health, maybe the the morons trying to snipe people with it would do something productive. Be glad those idiots are shooting Pheonix missiles at you. If they were actually shooting you with something that did damage you might be in trouble.

[Lithpope]

Yes you can snipe with a Pheonix, of course it's not effective, wastes a ton of ammo and, in general, is just plain a stupid thing to do. So, personally? I couldn't care less if they nerfed the AI damage to do a max of 1 health, maybe the the morons trying to snipe people with it would do something productive. Be glad those idiots are shooting Pheonix missiles at you. If they were actually shooting you with something that did damage you might be in trouble.


Amen to that lil' Elf. :D




As a side note, I think those swarms of Phoenix's were hitting infantry due to a lack of vehicle targets. That said I had a grand ole time last night DRIVING through a swarm of Phoenix users in my Marauder, they had a hella time hitting my Marauder at 76kph and some defensive driving, on top of that my gunning crew had a blast laying waste to all those Phoenix users while they were motionless and guiding thier missles. :groovy:


I think empire buggies have thier niche in the field now, clear the infantry for the areal armor.

Just my opinion.

[UncleDynamite]

In case you haven't noticed, phoenix NEEDS to be able to hide. One shot, then reload...not to mention you are completely open to attack from cloakers and the like while you're guiding the missle.

The no LOS is the only thing that makes the phoenix worth using. Stop complaining.

This is very true. Exposed Phoenix users are easy, easy targets. Being TR, I'm actually not all that concerned about Phoenixs as long as I'm not in a slow vehicle, because sniping with them are (as some people here have noted) pretty silly. I've always felt the clump of Phoenix users behind a hill wasn't a case of unfairness, but simply as a tactical challenge the TR (or VS) have to meet.

[Dharkbayne]

Indeed. Counter Pheonix users by FLANKING them, if you are out of their FoV, just wait till they fire, and shoot them, they won't have time to shoot back.

[BadAsh]

No, that would be the Decimator, but thanks for playing! Why the decimator? Because the Deci performs where it's important: Inside bases. Outdoors is all gravy. No AV weapon kills infantry or Vehicles nearly as well as Vehicles do.

But for the sake of this idiotic argument, lets talk about outdoors. The Striker is the king of AA, there's no argument here. The Pheonix works great against MAXs outdoors, but then so does the Striker. With multiple users who know what they're doing the Pheonix can also put the hurt on tanks too, of course so can the Striker or Lancer. I will agree that the Lancer is the biggest pain in the ass to use effectively out of the three but with some practice it competes very well against both of it's counterparts.

Yes you can snipe with a Pheonix, of course it's not effective, wastes a ton of ammo and, in general, is just plain a stupid thing to do. So, personally? I couldn't care less if they nerfed the AI damage to do a max of 1 health, maybe the the morons trying to snipe people with it would do something productive. Be glad those idiots are shooting Pheonix missiles at you. If they were actually shooting you with something that did damage you might be in trouble.

You are missing the major strength of the Phoenix: The ability to hit targets that are not in line of sight.

This is crucial and what makes the Phoenix the KING of all AV, because it then becomes so much more than just another AV weapon...

The Striker is:
Outdoor Anti-Air
Outdoor Anti-MAX (only MAX units in the open, it won't lock on when they are near structures, etc.)
Indoor Joke (no really, no indoor lock-on and it's dumb fire has a horrific COF, so its more than useless indoors)

The Lancer is:
Anti-Vehicle (LOS Only)
Anti-MAX (unique "MAX Sniper" status, pretty nice but still LOS)

The Phoenix is:
Outdoor Anti-MAX (even in the CY of a base! Walls are no protection!)
Indoor Anti-MAX (dumb fire mode is sweet and it's a 3 shot MAX killer!)
Outdoor Anti-Light Vehicle
Outdoor Heavy Vehicle Harrasser
Outdoor Infantry harrassment weapon (and *sniper bane)
Vehicle Pad Destroyer (ultra critical in a seige)
CY AMS Destroyer (ultra critical in a seige)

So during a base seige...

A Striker can help with AA duties, pester other vehicles, and kill MAX units that stray into open areas. Nice weapon.

A Lancer can snipe at MAX units, Aircraft, and Vehicles that are in it's LOS. Nice weapon.

A Phoenix can destroy any MAX above ground, clear the CY of AMS units, destroy light vehicles, harrass heavy vehicles, harrass infantry, disable (and keep it disabled)the vehicle terminal... Godly Weapon!

Never underestimate the power of a weapon that lets you attack an oppenent who can't return the attack... The phoenix allows you to fire from 100% cover... for **no risk killing...

*Sniper Bane: Use this tactic with the Phoenix if you get sniped once. Move behind 100% cover and heal yourself. Fire a "scout" shot or two to locate the sniper and then start hitting him. 4 hits kills infantry... so now the sniper is forced to run or die.

**No Risk Killing: Not really 100% true, but with careful positioning you can fire from a secure location. Use an AMS and deployables to defend your position. Mines, spitfires, and motion sensors can guard your location and you can fire from within the cloaking bubble and guide your missiles home! Try firing from the opposite side of a tower roof for protection. During a seige when we have the base tower I get in the roof on the opposite side facing away from the base. From there I can hit anything in the base except people on the opposite side base wall.

Place a dedicated Phoenix squad there or inside the cloaking bubble of a nearby AMS and rain down some major pain. The enemy will lose any MAX that ventures outside, their vehicle terminal, the AMS they tried to hide under the catwalk in the CY, all of their spitfire turrets, vehicles trying to get repairs will get pounded, aircraft slowing down to use the repair/rearm pads will get owned, and the thumper guys and snipers on the walls can't get cover so they can run inside and hide with the MAX units or they can die.

No other AV comes close to this complete base domination capability that a handfull of dedicated Phoenix users can deal out. The Phoenix is KING.

"Hail to the King baby!"

EDIT: Oh, yeah, the Wall Turrets are Phoenix bait too... Strikers and Lancers can be shot by the turret they are attacking... the Phoenix can get full cover and kill at will... A Squad will kill the turret in 1 volley...

[Krinsath]

The Phoenix is not the end all super killer. Even driving my little Lightning, I worry more about Lancers than I do Phoenixes. Sure, a swarm of Phoenix missiles is a frightening thing, but I do believe it sends a message...

"Don't Drive Vehicles Here"

If there are 60 AV troopers in the area, I don't care what empire it is...you're an idiot for bringing in a vehicle...unless you're bringing 60 of them. Armor will lose to dug-in, prepared infantry. Been a rule of warfare since the tank's inception. The strength of armor is in not going in the teeth of the enemy, but moving AROUND the enemy and attacking less protected flanks (ask the French about their Maginot Line, which was a quite formiddable fortress, except the German armor just went AROUND it).

If you see a whole bunch of Phoenix missiles and you can't muster the vehicles to counter it, get an infiltration suit and go to town killing these Phoenix users...or get a sniper rifle and flank and rack up 30+ kills from the defenseless missile users.

Yes, your tanks will be useless...that's why the cert is called "Anti-Vehicle", nice to see it actually do it's job for once.

The Phoenix in particular is not a big problem. Find cover that hides your position from the missiles. For instance, parking directly next to the walls of a base makes it well-nigh impossible to be hit unless they have LOS to you (in which case you're screwed anyway). Rare are the Phoenix users who can get the missile to dive down correctly before you've repaired and moved on....but again, if you see that many missiles, you're better off grabbing a rifle instead of a tank...I know you won't feel special anymore since you don't have your big armored tank, but believe me, you will survive.

[Colonel Nikolai]

The Phoenix is:
Outdoor Anti-MAX (even in the CY of a base! Walls are no protection!)
Indoor Anti-MAX (dumb fire mode is sweet and it's a 3 shot MAX killer!)
Outdoor Anti-Light Vehicle
Outdoor Heavy Vehicle Harrasser
Outdoor Infantry harrassment weapon (and *sniper bane)
Vehicle Pad Destroyer (ultra critical in a seige)
CY AMS Destroyer (ultra critical in a seige)


That is exactly my point. The weapon is simply too flexible for something that can be fired from near-absolute cover.

Please keep in mind that I was not bitching, I was attempting to present a reasonable, logical solution to a problem I've been seeing since well before the patch. Please do not assume this is someone screaming "NERF!!! NREF THE PHEENIX!!!" I have my simple, objective reasons. Defend your weapon all you want, but the solution to cloaker kills is a friendly watching your back and you really won't be exposed to as much fire as you think.

Why? Because the engagement range you are thinking about is your current one, not your evolved one. With the LOS requirement, you'll be taking more of your shots at closer ranges instead of cross-bridge and cross-base slugging, which drastically reduces flight time. And for those of you firing from prepared positions, once your missile is on course to hit a slower target, an alt-click to dumbfire would release the missile from your guidance (dunno if this works now, but would be added for sure). Lastly, anyone who still wants to fire indirectly can fire at an upward angle over a hill, then dive down to the target. The only difference is that you won't be able to guide after you lose LOS and the missiles will be easier to dodge. This eliminates firing out of tower doors, which is my biggest concern, and will make Phoenix users have to pick their shots better. Strikers are near-useless at long range in a forest, while a skilled Phoenix user can weave through the trees. You try that with a TOW and your missile will get snared and wrap itself around a tree trunk, but here its not an issue (I know its a game, I know its not supposed to be realistic to some of you, but your ability to fire these things through obstacles blows my mind).

I'm just proposing that the NC have a way to lose their locks, just like the TR do. I'm not asking for a damage reduction, or longer reload time, or for slower missiles. I'm merely asking for some fair play.

In other news, its very annoying trying to form a Prowler squad up when Phoenixes keep smashing the Vpad and into your tanks from the other side of a mountain.

[WritheNC]

NC has a way of losing their lock.

Its called human error + lag.

You don't know how many times I've fired a phoenix, and because of lag during a battle, that MAX warps 3 feet to the right of where he was standing right before my missile hits.

Yes, its a 3 shot max killer indoors, but then again, NC is all about up close firepower, so it fits the theme. Even then, the 2 shot common pool Decimator does a much, much better job in that scenario.

[TheRagingGerbil]

Nobody here has mentioned the 250 meter range yet. Now this is flight distance, so after making acouple of big turns, you're done. It's not like we can volley these things into your courtyard from outside the SOI...

[Colonel Nikolai]

250 meters? Good God. That's 50 more than cycler-sniping and FAR more than a striker can lock. Ahh well, no more time for this. Off to the daily grind.

[Mudflap]

The Phoenix is:
Outdoor Anti-MAX (even in the CY of a base! Walls are no protection!)
Indoor Anti-MAX (dumb fire mode is sweet and it's a 3 shot MAX killer!)
Outdoor Anti-Light Vehicle
Outdoor Heavy Vehicle Harrasser
Outdoor Infantry harrassment weapon (and *sniper bane)
Vehicle Pad Destroyer (ultra critical in a seige)
CY AMS Destroyer (ultra critical in a seige)
LOL, that's the funniest thing I've ever heard. I use a Pheonix, and if you're indoors fighting a max, then you're toast. You won't survive long enough to fire the 3 shots necessary. As I said before, it has the worst TTK. The Lancer is far superior indoors versus MAXes, and the striker isn't half bad, but everyone knows that the deci is king of indoor anti-max anyway.

As for destroying vehicle pads, half the people at teh terminal can repair, and we sure as heck can't kill them for crap, so what does it matter?
Infantry harrassment? I'd much rather not hit a soft target. It's pointless and dumb.
Destroying vehicles in the CY takes alot of Pheonix users with alot of coordination, and nobody repairing them.

What nobody points out is that the Pheonix, overall, is the slowest killer of vehicles, and the slow projectile speed keeps us from hitting fast moving targets. Light vehicles can quite often get out of range very quickly.

The main people who should fear the Pheonix are Maxes and Lightnings. A good buggy crew will leave the base opposite the fighting and flank the Pheonix users, and have field day when they get to them.

[BadAsh]

LOL, that's the funniest thing I've ever heard. I use a Pheonix, and if you're indoors fighting a max, then you're toast. You won't survive long enough to fire the 3 shots necessary. As I said before, it has the worst TTK. The Lancer is far superior indoors versus MAXes, and the striker isn't half bad, but everyone knows that the deci is king of indoor anti-max anyway.

As for destroying vehicle pads, half the people at teh terminal can repair, and we sure as heck can't kill them for crap, so what does it matter?
Infantry harrassment? I'd much rather not hit a soft target. It's pointless and dumb.
Destroying vehicles in the CY takes alot of Pheonix users with alot of coordination, and nobody repairing them.

What nobody points out is that the Pheonix, overall, is the slowest killer of vehicles, and the slow projectile speed keeps us from hitting fast moving targets. Light vehicles can quite often get out of range very quickly.

The main people who should fear the Pheonix are Maxes and Lightnings. A good buggy crew will leave the base opposite the fighting and flank the Pheonix users, and have field day when they get to them.

The only problem with your counter analysis is that I do all of the above all of the time. I can easily clear a CY of AMS, MAX units, and keep the Vehicle Pad down all pretty much single handedly. With a few coordinated Phoenix users this task is made all too easy.

Against a Phoenix assault the enemy either finds cover, leaves the area, or dies. That's a sweet set of options to dish out to an opponent when you are trying to take their base.

And it's Anti-MAX capability indoors is very good. If you can shoot a MAX 2 times with a deci then you can figure out how to shoot the MAX 3 times... unless the MAX is working with infantry he has serious problems. Of course if you stand still and trade shots with an AI MAX you won't get all 3 shots off... with a deci you won't get both shots off with that tactic either...

And your claim that the Striker is good Anti-MAX indoors is just wrong... it won't lock-on indoors and in dumb fire mode it's COF is horrific even if the shooter is motionless and crouching. Also you have to score 6-7 hits to drop the MAX... LOL. You are better off with HA loaded with AP rounds.

[BadAsh]

The Phoenix in particular is not a big problem. Find cover that hides your position from the missiles. For instance, parking directly next to the walls of a base makes it well-nigh impossible to be hit unless they have LOS to you (in which case you're screwed anyway).

I disagree with this first part of your statement.. the Phoenix can easily smack anything in the CY of a base from the base tower... if you own the tower you own the base with Phoenix Missiles. But to your second statement...

Rare are the Phoenix users who can get the missile to dive down correctly before you've repaired and moved on....but again, if you see that many missiles, you're better off grabbing a rifle instead of a tank...I know you won't feel special anymore since you don't have your big armored tank, but believe me, you will survive.

Yeah, I can't vouch for every goober that grabs a Phoenix... when playing TR and VS I'm amazed at how people try to use them... A skilled Phoenix user is a scary thing... a coordinated group of Phoenix users are a crushing force against a seiged base.

[Nosferatu]

I think you'l find that phoenix is the least powerfull missile in the game, along with that yes its guided by its still almost impossible to hit a reaver at full speed when a homing missile can.. then theres the reloading. so i think youl find its hardly unbalanced, NC are pretty crap when it comes to aa because our max is bugged and its hard to use phoenix except in dumb fire whm reavers stand still. Frankly get over it, i keep getting qwiped out by lashers every goddamn second because they're wildly overpowered comapred to my now crappy jackhammer, dont you think we should be concetrating on more important things.

[Veteran]

I refer to all the sage arguments about Phoenix's amazing superiority that were true before Decimator got moved to AV.

Phoenix is indeed the king.

[TheN00b]

And it's Anti-MAX capability indoors is very good. If you can shoot a MAX 2 times with a deci then you can figure out how to shoot the MAX 3 times... unless the MAX is working with infantry he has serious problems. Of course if you stand still and trade shots with an AI MAX you won't get all 3 shots off... with a deci you won't get both shots off with that tactic either...

Ash, you do know that you have to reload after every shot?

[Lithpope]

yes its guided by its still almost impossible to hit a reaver at full speed when a homing missile can



Actually, you are wrong there. A full speed Reaver will simply out range the Striker missle. The Striker round will pursue but NEVER hit, it will run out of range and self destruct before catching that Reaver.

[Krinsath]

I disagree with this first part of your statement.. the Phoenix can easily smack anything in the CY of a base from the base tower... if you own the tower you own the base with Phoenix Missiles. But to your second statement...

If you are directly next to the wall, meaning not in the courtyard, but next to the wall, you have to get the missile up high first and make it dive down at a very steep angle. It's *possible* but very, very difficult, as evidenced by the fact that Phoenix missiles never take out my TR Lightning unless I'm in the open field. Sure, if they're on the other side of the base, easy as pie. If they have LOS (like on top of a watch tower) then yes. Those are the minority of circumstances (well, the part about them being on the other side of the base may not be, but that goes to my next point...).

Yeah, I can't vouch for every goober that grabs a Phoenix... when playing TR and VS I'm amazed at how people try to use them... A skilled Phoenix user is a scary thing... a coordinated group of Phoenix users are a crushing force against a seiged base.

True of any group of coordinated AV troops. Of course, AV troops are useless against MA and HA and SA infantry. We return to the fundamental idea of "Lots of AV means you shouldn't get your vehicle"...just like "Lots of vehicles means you shouldn't be grabbing your Punisher and Sweeper"...use common sense. If you can't muster the vehicles to counter the AV, your vehicles are countered. Follow the equation, armor needs infantry support to take out anti-armor infantry...so the regular infantry is the tactic needed. Believe it or not, there are battles where the Mag/Van/Prowler are not the best weapon. Swarms of AV in an area would make any such battle a prime example.

[Rbstr]

The Phoenix is not the end all super killer. Even driving my little Lightning, I worry more about Lancers than I do Phoenixes. Sure, a swarm of Phoenix missiles is a frightening thing, but I do believe it sends a message...

"Don't Drive Vehicles Here"

If there are 60 AV troopers in the area, I don't care what empire it is...you're an idiot for bringing in a vehicle...unless you're bringing 60 of them. Armor will lose to dug-in, prepared infantry. Been a rule of warfare since the tank's inception. The strength of armor is in not going in the teeth of the enemy, but moving AROUND the enemy and attacking less protected flanks (ask the French about their Maginot Line, which was a quite formiddable fortress, except the German armor just went AROUND it).

If you see a whole bunch of Phoenix missiles and you can't muster the vehicles to counter it, get an infiltration suit and go to town killing these Phoenix users...or get a sniper rifle and flank and rack up 30+ kills from the defenseless missile users.

Yes, your tanks will be useless...that's why the cert is called "Anti-Vehicle", nice to see it actually do it's job for once.

The Phoenix in particular is not a big problem. Find cover that hides your position from the missiles. For instance, parking directly next to the walls of a base makes it well-nigh impossible to be hit unless they have LOS to you (in which case you're screwed anyway). Rare are the Phoenix users who can get the missile to dive down correctly before you've repaired and moved on....but again, if you see that many missiles, you're better off grabbing a rifle instead of a tank...I know you won't feel special anymore since you don't have your big armored tank, but believe me, you will survive.

Couldn't have put it better

I realy disagee when you say the phx is good indoors, it takea a horenduos amount of time to get those 3 shots off, even if you sneak up behind them, they hav pelanty of time to run and kill you no matter what max type it is.

It sucks at AI taking 5 missles to kill an agile

It takes over something like 15 pheonix missles to take an AMS, if you have one repairguy going the ams is safe

Any of th eAV can do etter at all of the things, they just need line of sight, to do it, i don't thinks thats a bad trade off for having better weapons

[Fenrys]

/me beats on the oily spot where teh dead horse usta to be.

[BDMJ]

The only reason I use phoenix now is that it offers more damage per box than the deci. It is the worst solo AV weapon, but the best in a zerg. To be honest, I would really enjoy being forced to have LOS, but being able to set the missle to dumbfire mode midflight. You are complaining now, but you would not believe how much more effective the phoenix would be if it had those characteristics.

[TheN00b]

BD, standing absolutely still because you're firing the Pheonix is bad enough. LOS would be practically impossible with all the snipers on the defending base's walls.

[Biohazzard56]

I'm pretty sure the NC have to reload after every shot, and they are COMPLETELY undefended while guiding said missle though. It's balanced.

I wont say bitching cause you have a valid point :)

[BadAsh]

Ash, you do know that you have to reload after every shot?

And you do know you don't have to stand there motionless while reloading right? ;)

[TheN00b]

Well, ya, but the TTK on a MAX with one Pheonix is so atrocious that it's unfeasible indoors.

[Kaymon]

Well, ya, but the TTK on a MAX with one Pheonix is so atrocious that it's unfeasible indoors.

Luckily, it comes bundled with the Decimator now. Each weapon to their own strengths. I say the Phoenix is fine. If they can stay well hidden with no LOS on their target, more power to 'em. They only have 1 shot before a reload, and AV isn't exactly the strongest armor busting cert out there.

Just do what I do: AV outdoors, Deci indoors.

[BDMJ]

Setting it to dumbfire midflight would up the TTK dramatically against any slow moving targets, assuming a skilled user on the phoenix end. It would make it a much more viable solo weapon. Imagine having the phoenix's ROF for dumfire mode, without a COF, and with auto correction. If a two shot magazine were added, it would be perfect.

[PhoenixTypeX]

Tbh I love the Phoenix cos im a VS sniper it's perfect, I set up nearby to a load of NC with phoenix's flanking them to the side. Then I wait until they fire the missile and are in cam mode and fire off my good old sniper rifle twice at them = dead NC. I often find where there is one NC with phoenix that there are loads bunched together so more sniper kills for me! This works as some NC are so eager to fly their missile and get frags they don't realise they are being shot and killed until its too late ! :D

http://www.planetsidestats.com/Sig/21/479411/2/sig.jpg

[Kaymon]

Hee, I was testing the new DC max when I saw a Phoenix user launch one. I got right in front of him and locked down. He started to reload with me in his face.

"Hi there!"

Kaymon <DC> SurprisedNC

[Dharkbayne]

:rofl: Owned.

[Biohazzard56]

I dont get it.

[Colonel Nikolai]

Mid-flight dumbfire isn't really that much, considering that your tank or buggy only has to change course or speed a tiny bit.

I decided to walk everyone else's talk and pick up a Phoenix myself on Markov. I went out to a fight, hunkered down behind a tree, and was soon sniping MAXes and Magriders from complete impunity. I ran out of ammo twice and had to go back before I finally got killed, and I was -loaded- with rounds. I then tried striking over the CY walls, which proved extremely simple to do. I nailed my first few vpad snipes right on the terminal, just like I wove my missle between bridge pylons when going after a Magrider. Then I tried it against air. You know what? Picking my shots, I got 3 out of 4, the miss being one I realized was friendly. I got plenty of potshots on a low-flying liberator, which turned out to be slower than the missile just by enough that the tailgunner stared right at the missile and tried to shoot it down. In short, I had a fun ten minutes worth of frags with that thing, at no cost to myself but two deaths from breakthrough tanks.

"Skilled" Phoenix users my left foot, I just picked it up and piz-owned anything thicker than a Rexo. This was on the West Coast server (I'm East) with packetloss spiking over 10%. I hate to break it, but that weapon ain't hard to waste people with. And for fun, I tried firing from only partial cover. Dispite mild sniper fire, I got away just fine. And the reload time is negligable. I mean, I almost didn't see the animation, compared to the Striker's, "Hold on, I need to block the scope FULLY before I can proceed from here", animation.

In short, I still think LOS should be required back to the launcher. There's plenty of cubbyholes and low ridges to hide behind while firing like this, believe me. As a Striker user, its second nature to hide when firing. By the way... strikers do have a rather poor range limit on the lock feature, while the Phoenix can engage much, much farther with pinpoint accuracy.

[shaizan]

Hey guys, a question from a decicated VS/TR person: If a phoenix user is killed with a missle midflight, does the missle go dumbfire or does it dissappear?

[Rbstr]

YOu can make you missle go dumbfire in mid flight already, its just you still have to wait for it to explode to reload.

[shaizan]

So, it goes dumbfire should the NC meet his/her death? You danced about my question a tad (like a surgile, very apropo) but did not quite hit it on the head (unlike a JH surgile :))

[Rbstr]

No it does go boom if you get killed, i was saying to the other guy.

Also i don't have HA, and i only use Agils when i'm flying. But its nice to see that you can't get over that fact that most of the NC are not surgiles, and the fact that the other empires do it just as frequently.

Its impossible to go right over a Wall, you can't turn that fast. Any reaver that gets hot down by a phx deserves to have his cert taken from him, he is a fool.

The thing the pheonix has is accuracy, but both the other weapons do better damage, i think its a great tradeoff.

Also if you have time check out how many bases have poings higher than them were you can shoot into any point of the cortyard with the striker and lancer