Planetside Performance.

[BigFreak]

k, intro: I started off playing PS on a GeForce 4 ti 4200, I believe it was, with my Athlon 2000+, and 512 mb of RAM. Then when the game was released, I heard everyone saying the step up to 1gb of RAM really made a huge performance boost, so I upgraded. I went on holiday, and let my sister use my PC (bad move). Came back, it wouldn't boost. Video card was busted. Bought a GeForce fx 5200 (cheapo card) to replace. Today I installed a spanky new Radeon 9800 Pro. Thinking it would finally end my performance woes...

The end of my performance woes? Hah. More or less default options (everything on medium, except flor turned off)...surely a high end card can handle this at about 60fps plus, right? Yea...well..not at all. Pretty average sized battle, INSIDE I was down to 10fps...what's going on? Inside a facility, just me, a guy, and a terminal on the screen. Yea, there was all hell breaking loose outside...but...surely it shouldn't be rendering that? Anyhoo, when anything's going on I can't seem to be above 20 fps. I'm using the latest official drivers...what can I do? :/ I bought this card more or less specifically for PS, and it can run UT2003 with all the options cranked to full at a nice 60fps. :huh:

Thanks for any help.

Just a wee edit here: Reading about these Omega drivers...should I notice a significant increase in FPS using them? I tried them with my old FX and noticed little to no improvement (with performance install, instead of quality), and can't be bothered messing about with that unless it's worth it :\

[Rbstr]

Get into yout driver settings and look at your AGP settings you may be opperatin at only 4x or maybe even PCI mode, its very hard to say.

You still using the 2000+ and a gig of memory right?
If you can give you system specs in as much detail as possible, esspecialy your MoBo specs.

[Phaelon]

To resonable narrow the affect domain, some more information needs to be gathered.
1).What driver are you using and what version is it?
2).What OS are you using and what version/Build is it?
3).What OS Patches have you run?
4).Model and manufacturer of your graphics card.
5).Model and manufacturer of your Motherboard
6).The maker of the memory you bought and what type it is?
7).Sound card model, and driver version.

Get those things and we can take a closer look. Here is a few things of note.

Cheap memory can have horrendous effects on a system. If you went to best buy and bought another 512 MB for the cheapest price, then you are going to have problems.
Drivers reflect and hurt operations the most. If you are getting these effects with the most current drivers, rollback your driver and try older ones. See if anyone is talking about your video card and driver version on www.deja.com
If you remember back about 2 years ago, Everquest had HUGE problems with Sound Blaster Live!. EQ is fixed now but one can only assume PlanetSide is as well. Make sure your soundcard is up to date.
If your motherboard is 1 year or more older and you haven't updated the bios this could be another contributing factor to system slow down.

Peace

[BigFreak]

Rbstr: Yea, I'm still using the same processor/RAM, and it's running at 4x AGP, I assume that's the max my mobo supports, as it's the highest I can set it to.

Phaelon: Catalyst, 4.2
Win XP, SP1, completely updated
Sapphire Radeon 9800 Pro Atlantis
The mobo I'm not too sure about. Can't remember where I put the manual :/ it's MSI; one of the first with DDR 333 support
The memory, yea, was just cheap generic stuff bought froma local bits shop, and the one before 333 as 333 support was bad at the time (277? I forget, heh).
SoundBlaster Live! 5.1 Digital

And I haven't updated the BIOS, as, to be honest, I haven't a clue, heh :(

[Rbstr]

Look inside your case at the norhtbridge and see who the manufacturer is

[BigFreak]

Yea *newb* What's that? :D

[dscytherulez]

I can vouch that with that system, you should be getting better performance, depending on your mobo. I have the same Radeon 9800 Pro and 1 Gig of ram. I have a Athlon 3000+ though.

The lowest I ever had was 30 FPS. 10 FPS in a small-med battle is terrible, you should definately get more than that.

[MidnightDave]

Im not getting that great performance either not as bad, but I think I should be getting better I get around 15/20 fps during zergs, but its been known to drop to 10ish.

Ive got an AMD 2200
MSI KT something mobo
1g of ddr 333 ram
Radeon 9700 pro
sb audigy

culling is on, lots of the textures and extra functions are off.

edit: im thinking of upgrading my mobo and proc (my mobo wont support much higher proc than I have) to something like a 3200+ and maybe adding another 512 of memory im sure that will help. I know for a fact that upgrading my vid card is useless.

[Rbstr]

Aha its a VIA!!!!

you need to get the new chipsest drivers, because they mess up AGP for some reason wit the early ones.

wait your not the origianl guy that only applies to the guy above me

a new processor for you would be nice, but you don't need more memory.

[BigFreak]

Yea, mine's a KT something or other, but I heard the 3gHz chips need some insane cooling. I'd really like this sorted, heh. If it's a hardware problem I'm pretty screwed, having just bought the Radeon...but then I just made 50million on Ultima Online which I could cash in... �_� Hrm. Might try reformatting :\ but it's such hassle...specially with PS patching :<

[BigFreak]

Ah, I guess that applies to me also? heh. Where'd I get these? :D

[Rbstr]

VIA website or www.gurud3d.com(i think they have them), an AMD Athlon 3000+ is not a 3ghz chip, it actualy is about 2ghz is, the 3000+ is comparing it to the compereable P4

[dscytherulez]

My AMD Athlon 3000+ clocks in at 2.2ghz and it compares to/outperforms a 3ghz pentium.

[BigFreak]

Righty, do I want the Hyperion 4 in 1 chipset driver thingy, or VIA AGP driver 4.40 (listed in http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?id=16 ) ?

[Rbstr]

Do the all in one thing, then the AGP is the All in one didn't work

[BigFreak]

Hrm..well that didn't work :\ Few vehicles and infantry on the screen, and I'm down to 26 fps, 64.2 looking straight at the floor :/ I'm assuming something's really rather wrong..? :D

Thanks again for all the help btw guys :)

[MidnightDave]

ok, now im having a moral delima lol

since im getting a brand new mobo anyway should I got pentium 3.2 ht? or the AMD 3200


im not talking the 64 bit on anything.

[Rbstr]

p4 3.2, IF you get 2 512 sticks of ddr400 to go with it.

for a mob get a p4p800-deluxe, it is acctualy better than the p4c800 if you turn on performance mode(its PAT but renamed)

[rogueleader]

Ok. I know for sure that I'm running on PCI mode. Is there any way for me to update my BIOS. Like I said before I'm not a genius with comps. I've looked up how to overclock my p4, but they say I need a whole new mobo, which I can't do.

And also what are these drivers you speak of. They sound rather important.

One last thing. I've been looking up RAM, but I don't know what one to get. Can someone tell me exactly which one I should get. My current RAM is somewhat below 400 and I would like to get it to 1 gb.

[MidnightDave]

I know I have a gig of ram, I just dont know what kind, is there any way to find out other than opening up my computer?

edti: oh and do you have a specific mobo to recommend, msi over asus etc?

[Rbstr]

Midnight:
I'm not sure how you can find out what type of ram you have withough know what it was when you installed it.

rogue
You have a p3 correct? if you do you most likely have pc 133, or pc 100 ram. but i do not know if you could put a gb of ram in it. If you have a p3 you may want to look into getting a new system sometime in the near future.

[MidnightDave]

ya lol I think its 333 i suppose I could always go to pcclub to find out, they have that stuff on record.

and like i editied, do u have a specific recommendation for mobo. the one I have now is an msi which I like, ive had some not so good expereicnes with asus in teh past, im just tryin to be smart with this.

[rogueleader]

Actually i've got a p4 cel. Any advice on that?

[Rbstr]

rogue:
ok nvm then to what i said ther are a bunch of people that all kinda don't know their specs. if you could find out what kind of Mobo you have i could tell you things to do.

Also what do you meen by 400, is that 400Mb or 400mhz?

Dave:
I would go with Asus right now they realy have some great quality boards out right now.

For Asus you can get a couple of board depending on waht you situation is.

If your gona get a P4(with a p4 its very advisable to get 2 stick of ddr400 ram, peferably 2 512 sticks):

You can go with the p4p800 Deluxe http://usa.asus.com/products/mb/socket478/p4p800-d/overview.HTM
i have this and its Very nice, also with this board you can acctivate PAT sothing that should only be found on 875p chipsets.

or you can get the more expensive p4c800-E deluxe
http://usa.asus.com/products/mb/socket478/p4c800-e_d/overview.HTM

if your gona do an AMD Athlon go with the A7n8x-E Deluxe
http://usa.asus.com/products/mb/socketa/a7n8x-e-d/overview.htm
Nforce 2 400 chipset is probably the best out there for Athlons.

note the Deluxe means they have added things like an integrated VIA IDE Raid controler. And they also are a bit higher quality compared to the non-deluxe ones(only about a 10$ premium for them)

[BigFreak]

My problems are continuing :'( gonna defrag tonight...can't see as it'd help much but yea, then all I can think of is formatting :\

Yea Edit: Here's some really bad quality jpgs of my dilema (I felt the quality of the picture was irrelevant to the point I was trying t make).

http://www.taylor-made.fsnet.co.uk/screenshots/PS/planetside%202004-02-20%2023-10-28-12.jpg Next to nothing going on, 25.9 FPS.

http://www.taylor-made.fsnet.co.uk/screenshots/PS/planetside%202004-02-20%2023-12-39-71.jpg Looking at the floor, 64.2 FPS.

http://www.taylor-made.fsnet.co.uk/screenshots/PS/planetside%202004-02-20%2023-12-50-93.jpg My settings.

[rogueleader]

i meant mb. sry bout that. I don't know the exact make of my mobo. It's whatever comes with the dell i got. I'll try and find out.

OK bottom line here. chances are I'm going to buy a new mobo. I've got to know whats better since they'res no going back after i buy. Would it be better to buy mobo that works with p4 cel and keep the p4. Or buy mobo that works with Athlon and buy and +2500 athlon. Either way I'm getting more RAM so what would be the better choice?

[MidnightDave]

ok, well thanks for all the advice and one final question

for this game should I believe the advertizing on the ps loadscreens? or go with amd

[Rbstr]

Bigfreak: turn medium textures off that will help, its very hard to say say whats wrong with it, Esspecialy because i can't see whats going on in realy time, if you have any tech smart friends, get them to come over and take a look at it.

Rogue: you best off calling **** and asking them about your specs and upgrades.
EDIT again, for you, if your gona get a new mobo for an athnol 2500+ (batron i hope) get the asus board i posted above.

It relay come down to how much money you can spend, if you can afford a high end 3.2ghz P4 with ddr400 for i go that route, if not the 2500+ barton is a very nice OCer and you could have 3000+ performance with it.

EDIT:
Dave:
No you should not belive the screens but i can tell you that a 3.2 ghz p4 is probably the best your gona get in this game for a reasonable price.
Also ATI makes far better graphix cards right now for DX9 things, and PS is belive it or not, partly DX9

[rogueleader]

It would certainly be cheaper for me just to buy a mobo that works with my current p4 cel. Please tell me if that's a good choice.

[Rbstr]

well for a 2500+ and Mobo, and Memory your looking at 300 or so.

a celeron realy isn't a very good processor, and you would be much happier with a 2500+ barton, but if you want to keep the Cel go for the P4p800 deluxe above

[MidnightDave]

thanks rbstr I have a 9700 pro that im gonna keep for a while. Nvidia can kiss my a$$. Well then I guess ill be going with the pentium. As for the memory I did look inside (for something else but eh) and I got 2 512 ddr333 so I guess ill be upgrading. I was lookng on pcclub's website and they have this stick of dual channel memory or something, is that good?

[rogueleader]

This should be last question technically until I get my stuff. What about those drivers? What are they? Do I need them? How do I get them?

[Rbstr]

no, you do not have a VIA chipset you do not need the drivers.

good places to buy things: www.buyxg.com www.newegg.com www.ocsystem.com

Dave for memory heres what you shoudl be looking for:
A One GB dual channel kit (make sure its 2x 512, or you can buy two of the same 512 stick if you can get it that way cheaper)
DDR 400 (pc 3200)
with a CAS latency of 2.
here are good examples:
http://www.ocsystem.com/ocx21gbpcddm.html
http://www.buyxtremegear.com/twin2.html
http://www.buyxtremegear.com/twin.html
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-144-114&catalog=147&manufactory=BROWSE&depa=0

EDIT:
You know Midnight you coudl also get a 2.4ghz P4 and do something realy fun with it:
Get decent cooling(copper then 50 bucks realy, but you save ALOT by not geting a 3.2) Then you Oveclock it to 3.0ghz, thins means your system buss would be 250, and that would let you use DDR500 memory and with that type of memory bandwidth PS would run like glass i would say,

[Ait'al]

IM pretty sure because of te nature of planetside, namely the way they ahve to consider things coming from long distances, it renders the stuff through walls. Not to mention it keeps track of things on the entire continent. It cant afford to only render stuff in a small areas(a single hallway.) because your going to run outside and it would have to load really fast, and it would screw up performance for people with adequete computers.(in that situation it would have to instantly load everything right outside, other hallways you could see, everything to the horizon the games auto has the distance set to, etc. when a 3D rendered things is set to go back and forth its one of the most intensive thing that can be put on a computer. Your jumping from your ram using a little bit to possibly overflowing to having going back to smal things when you enter areas confined areas agian. Some types of 3D stuff can do that, its acutaly the simple way to render 3d environments, but its not possible with a game with so much interaction.

[rogueleader]

I'm going to buy some RAM, but I need advice. Should I buy two 512mb DDR400 sticks? or just one 1gb DDR400. Also is there a superior maker of these? Please tell me what the best company would be.

[Rbstr]

With ram you want 2 stick and no less(no more realy either, be 4 stick doen't hurt as much as 1 or 3) because the new chipset have what is callled a dual channel DDR memory interface/bus/whateveryouwanttocallit when you have 2 sticks of memory that are identicle you acctualy double the bandwidth that those 2 sticks can put out.

go with 2 512's, those gig sticks have very crpppy timeings too

[rogueleader]

So no specific brand you recommend? I've also found DDR DRAM and DDR SDRAM. What one should I pick?

[Rbstr]

Oh i recomend Crucial, Cosrair, OCZ, and Kingson

look at teh ones above, thats waht you wnat to try to get

[ZionsFire]

There is one answer to all the threads that have been and will be made.....

Planetside Hates You.

[rogueleader]

Is this one good? http://www.ocsystem.com/ocx21gbbapcd.html. The only concern is that the CAS is 3 not 2. I was just wondering how much this mattered. And what it even is.

[Rbstr]

Yeah thats fine but i would recomend getting the lowest cas you can get. OCsystem has CAS 2.5 and 2 also

[rogueleader]

Please take a look at these two and tell me which is better. This will be my final decision I swear. http://www.ocsystem.com/ocx21gbpcddm1.html http://www.ocsystem.com/ocx21gbpcddm.html

[BigFreak]

Right, got some advice from someone over IRC. I disabled a load of services and onstartup services. I was getting 90-100 fps in Sanctuary, still dropping down to around 20 out in the open :\ HOWEVER I'm hoping this + a defrag -might- just help, heh

[Phaelon]

Rbstr - Do not use the dual channel, it winds up actually slowing computers down more than helping them. The threading code found with AMD and Intel processors severly limits the actual theoretical bandwidth found on the Mother Boards. Go to www.tomshardware.com and read for yourself.

If you get ram, still with a 1 GB single chip. There are known performance hits for switching to dual channel.

Alright, Bigfreak. If you disabled lots of services, changed lots of stuff, and are still seeing the same problem, there are a few things you can try.
1).Take the sound blaster Live! out of the computer and use on board. The sound Blast Live! is KNOW to cause huge problems on almost every game. The card was made as an interim by creative and was thought of only to pass the tide for a few months. Or you can buy an audigy from www.newegg.com for like 55 dollars OEM.
2).Fresh Install of your Operating system. Use drivers that are KNOWN to work, and disable services and optimize the computer. www.blackviper.com
3).In all honesty I can't say buying new ram will fix it, but there is a KNOWN 10-15% increase in frames per second when you go with corsair memory. The stuff is just that good.

Did you update your motherboard bios? Did you have a 7200 RPM hard drive? You do have 1 gig of ram right?

Honestly, mess with that sound blaster card, I had one and it was the worst sound card I ever owned. It was responsible for 60% of the crashes in EQ.

[BigFreak]

Yea, I've got no onboard sound here. I guess I'll just have to play about with what I have access to. Thanks :)

[Liquidtide]

BigFreak, I have one suggestion that will probably work. I looked at your settings and two things stuck out. First and most inportant turn your view range down to around 50% you do not need it to be 100% anytime in the game. This should up you considerably. Also, turn shadows off, they suck a lot of resources too.

~Tide

Hope this works.

[BigFreak]

Right cool, I'll try that in a bit. Thanks.

[Rbstr]

Ive read Toms hardware for a long time and have never heard or Dual channel making performance go down, fist it doubles the theretical bandwidth, even if it did make teh theretical bandwidth do down you still are subtracting from a large number. Also with a gig stick you get horrbile timings, the only gig sticks i have seen are Cas 3.

[Phaelon]

"Moreover, as our test has shown, when two DIMM modules are used on most of today's commerically-available motherboards, often incomprehensible problems can be expected.A memory upgrade can thus be especially problematic, as the localisation of the problem-causing components can take hours and put a strain on the user or white box vendor's the nerves. "
-http://www4.tomshardware.com/motherboard/20040112/index.html

That article shows that having 2 512 MB chips can often hurt more than help. While the article is dealing with the athlon 64, the same concept resides, the fact that more memory chips, the more the CPU has to deal with.

I do agree whole heartidly about the CAS latency being crap on 1 gig chips, and the CAS latency can make or Break a pentium 4, as shown in this article. - http://www4.tomshardware.com/motherboard/20040119/index.html

What I am trying to say is that you really need to be carefull any time you buy memory, to make sure it is up to par.

[Rbstr]

Well that athlon 64 is a single channel chip. So with the increased latencies that come by using extra chips i would assume the perfomance would go down more than up.

thankyou for pointing me to the article

I have tried to only recomend chips that come in Tested pairs, to make sure they work correctly.

[rogueleader]

Wohoo! Got my updates and is running a lot better. Thanks a lot people.

[Rbstr]

what did you get, and how is it in terms of FPS?

[rogueleader]

I ended up going with a PC3500 Geil 2x512mb with a CAS of 2. Can only utilize the 400mhz until I get a new mobo. I have not a clue on how to check the fps though.

[Rbstr]

In planetsdie you can type /stats in the chatwindow and a Box with Connection infor and FPS will pop up or you can download fraps