Pheonix

[Mognoc]

I know I'll probably get flamed for this, but the Pheonix's range needs to be upped. Fighting yesterday for Voltan, in the early stages of our battle Magridgers simply surrounded our tower. With the rest of the AV guys I ran up to the top and started shooting Pheonixes at them. Eventually they started running away across the water, and it made me so mad because I would be ten feet, then all of a sudden boom, I run out of wire (?). That's another thing, WHY are they wire controlled? They've got hover tanks, wormhole travel, yet missiles are still wire guided. Even today we are more advanced then this. I'm not asking for no limit on the range, but since after *every* shot we have to reload, in the meantime the enemy is getting out of range. Bigger ammo capacity or longer range. I think that buffing the capacity to 3(?) was talked about...I just want more range or less time wasted reloading. I'll sit here and wait for the flames.

EDIT: I also think the Prowler needs to be buffed for speed. I got about 3 prowler kills while they were running away because they couldn't go over the water and they're not nearly as fast as the Mag.

[Liteshow]

Let me be the first to flame. I hate people who use the Phoenix. I hate having to find them from behind rocks and trees and inside towers. They're like cockroaches now that the Deci is AV. All AV sucks. At least you have the component of human error as to whether your AV hits or not. Ditto with the Lancer. Damn the Striker, I couldn't get a lock with that thing standing in the open 10m away from my target.

[Mognoc]

I havent run against a Lancer in a while now, I heard one firing in the distance last night though, haven't actually seen one for a long time. my Lib got shot down with a Striker last night, maybe it's user error...Most people don't like the Pheonix because there's no LOS needed. You get a prowler hiding behind a wall, you just have to have a bit of skill to be able to turn it right in order to get around the wall, it *cannot* turn on a dime. Or a silver dollar for that matter.

[DeadTeddy]

it's not literally "wire guided" I think. it's like a remote control car only it can fly and crashing into something is the whole point.

some range would be nice though.

I would prefer a third fire mode. make the missile faster, allot faster. maybe 3 times as fast. make the range allot bigger as well, and add a timer that prevents the missile from exploding if it didn't travel for at least 100 meters. it would be hard to kill with it, but for long range magrider chasing it would definately own.

[Liteshow]

my Lib got shot down with a Striker last night, maybe it's user error...

Touche :D

The funny thing is, I like playing with the Phoenix. It's an arcade game in itself. The problem is that there is little error in it. The Lancer has a ridiculous lead time, and the Striker may or may not work.

No LOS, no computer aided/hindered aspects. No competition :(

[Mognoc]

Striker - Oh fuck, a lock. Time to haul ass.
Lancer - Huh? The lancer really sucks and needs to be buffed
Pheonix - OH CRAP! Where the fuck?!

Teddy, I'm pretty sure it is...Maybe I'm mistaken. I lived because I was the tailgunner in the Lib, and I saw them coming and bailed, the pilot was hauling ass toward a mountain, and the bombardier was busy doing nothing. I heard the Striker got fixed, but maybe not. I sometimes use Strikers I find, because the lock will sometimes scare off aircraft even if you have no ammo for the thing. I've neverh ad a problem with the lock...

EDIT: Basically a TOW missile launcher, the New Conglomerate�s Phoenix uses wire-guided technology...
There's your proof, Teddy.

[DeadTeddy]

I'm into model airplanes. everything from gliders to R/C planes, and from what I saw, when you tie a plane to a rope it's gonna fly in circles around you. if you're talking about a communication wire, that's just stupid for two reasons:
1)it's a fucking missile. ask the coyote from loony toons to show you again what happens when you tie a wire to a missile
2)remote controls are quite easy to make, and much more effective then wires.

[Dharkbayne]

Fly by wire = camera guided. Dumbass.

[Mognoc]

Dhark, I see on the thread list you've posted here and I just knew I'd hear something like that. :p You're almost as bad as Rayder. And I'm just going on what is posted on the weapons description. Dumbass.

EDIT: The "I'm just going on what is posted on the weapons description" is for teddy and Dhark, the Dumbass is for Dhark only. :D

[Rayder]

Phoenix is scarier than the other two AV weapons. Not only does it do the most damager per shot, it's the most accurate.

[Mognoc]

Rayder, I agree with you there...It's the best. The others need to be on par so we can kick your asses with equally powerful weapons...It has to be reloaded every shot, though, and that gives the target plenty of time to escape, except in the case of the prowler. Which, as I've already said, needs a buff. The Striker is better at AA, mainly because it's a lock on weapon and the Pheonix cannot catch up with an afterburning Aircraft and gets out of range by the time the Aircrafts burner cuts out. The lancer sucks. It needs a buff majorly.

[MidnightDave]

if u fix the striker lock-on issues, I wont have such a hate for the pheonix. Right now the pheonix is the best AV weapon hands down. The Lasher is now the best HA weapons hand down. What does the TR have that is the best hands down? Fix the striker lock-on and buff the lancer a tad and you will have equal AV. Ha is a different story altogether

[DeadTeddy]

TR has the best knife.

[Mognoc]

I say make the Lancer have Zero travel time so you wouldn't have to spend half the time figuring out how much to lead.

[Rayder]

TR has the best knife.
If you get killed by the Chainblade in secondary... you deserve to die.

[Dharkbayne]

Chainblade is the loudest of the three, NC have the best knife, can't hear the fucking thing.

[Rbstr]

Touche :D

The funny thing is, I like playing with the Phoenix. It's an arcade game in itself. The problem is that there is little error in it. The Lancer has a ridiculous lead time, and the Striker may or may not work.

No LOS, no computer aided/hindered aspects. No competition :(


Horrible damage over time you forgot that both the lancer and striker do better damage than the phoeinx even if a few shots miss

ADN the knife all do the same amoutn of damage, why are you arguing over them?

[Dharkbayne]

The noise , from 2nd mode, TR has a loud ass one, can't hear the NCone

[NoSurrender]

ok let me say something. THE STRIKER HAS NO LOCK ON RANGE!!. there. i love my striker but the lock on range is a joke. i think the lock range should be =total distance. and Plz dont say Strikers the best. 1. Phoenix. 2 tied Lancer/Striker. The lancer is a great weapon on slower vehicles and maxes. the phoenix owns pretty much anything. Striker is uber 1337 planekiller.

[Black]

i dont care if striker gets buffed it just means that i get more time to knife phoneix users in the back thats all :rolleyes:

[Batousai]

I hate the TR and the VS there always crying about the great NC there great weaponry :love:. Ive been using the phoenix seen i was a noob and i havent got rid of that cert yet. I love keeping snipers in check, scareing way infantry with it and taking down prowlers and mags. no other AV weapon can beat the Phoenix and alot of ppl can't take that. There was a earlier post that said the VS have HA on lock and the NC have AV on lock but what do the TR have well, IMO i think the TR have MAXs on lock. So can the empires stop crying, because the DEVs did something right for a change :D .


Phoenixs pwns all, END OF STORY!!!! :ncrocks: :cool2:

[slytiger]

I for one dont want the phoenix to get a range buff, im tired of all of these nerfs and buffs. For once cant we just use the damn weapons we have and find their weaknesses and strengths. Also, when i was a pilot and i got a lockon i got the hell out of there. Whenever i find somone with a striker i will pick it up because of that scare factor. You cant tell if a phoenix is on you till it hits thus no real fear.

[Gigabein]

The Lasher is now the best HA weapons hand down.

For the love of Pete... 3 things were done to the lasher

1. 3 second reload, instead of 4 seconds
2. 5 additional shots
3. starts the lash right away, instead of 5 meters

You really think that has unbalanced the weapon?! The real reason it seems over-powered to you is because more people are using it. I bet you money that a lot of NC and TR switched to VS when they learned it was the only HA getting buffed, and that the JH was getting a small nerf.

Sorry to jack this thread but I'm sick of people deciding that the Lasher is over-powered just because more people are using it now. If everyone's cert points were locked and people couldn't hop around between empires so easily, you might not even have noticed the difference.

[Lithpope]

The Striker is better at AA, mainly because it's a lock on weapon and the Pheonix cannot catch up with an afterburning Aircraft and gets out of range by the time the Aircrafts burner cuts out.



Got news for ya partner, neither can a Striker shot. No way in hell a Striker shot is gonna catch an aircraft on burners. The advantage is if a plane hits burners I can relock my Striker shot to a closer target if it is available.


They REALLY NEED TO FIX THE STRIKER LOCK BUG THOUGH. :mad:

[UltraDude]

Fly by wire just means it uses electronics to guide it instead of hydrolics or something.

And my only real beef with the phoenix is people killing infantry with it.

[Veteran]

Lancer just got buffed.

[Happy lil Elf]

Fly by wire = camera guided. Dumbass./yoda
Out of your ass, you are talking. Fly by wire is how some jet fighters operate.

The f-16 I believe was the first to employ it, although someone may want to correct me on that. Again I'm giving a rough explination here and I'm sure there are some buffs who are more familiar than it with me, so feel free to correct me. Basically the plane is built in such a way as to be naturally unstable. The aircrafts computer is constantly making tons of minute adjustments to make it actually stay in the air and allow the pilot to control it.

I think what you may have been going for is wire guided. Wire guided means exactly that, guided by a wire that is attached to the missile. The TOW would be a great example. They are sometimes camera guided, but not always.

[Veteran]

The reasons you could guess that Phoenix is wire-guided are:

1) there is nothing that jams the Phoenix. Wire-guided missiles are used to safeguard against radio-frequency jamming.

2) the Phoenix has a short range for a missile system (but not short in terms of game balance). It would be easy to spool out 250m worth of wire.

Reasons it may not be wire-guided:

1) The devs say whether it is or isn't. Likelihood: later, if ever

btw my cr5 buddy says his VS alt is tearing it up with the new Lancer. He says it rocks now.

[Krinsath]

The Lancer *always* rocked. Problem was you needed Range Magnifier to make it do so. ;) At least, in my experience that improves the accuracy tremendously. VS Sniper + AV = God. :) Well, in terms of clearing off the walls anyway.

Again, the order of AV (not counting decimator, as we all know it's #1 against anything short range):

1) Lancer - The TTK is the deciding factor here. Phoenix fires too slowly to claim "king of AV" title. Plus the fact that the Lancer is in full control of his avatar the entire time he is firing.

2) Phoenix - A close second, to be sure, but in a large battle against vehicles, chances are you're getting shelled with a missile in flight or, assuming your opponents aren't idiots (which means 5% of battles), you'll be snipered and/or cloakered out of existence.

3) Striker - Lock-on bug...nuff said.

Order of Anti-MAX:

1) Lancer - Fires fastest, need to be a little lucky with the shots close in, but still works well at all ranges.

2) Striker/Phoenix (depending on range) - at Medium/Short range, the Striker is the better weapon, as it doesn't seem to suck as badly locking onto MAXes and it's rate of fire makes it the better weapon. At long range, Phoenix hands down, since TTK doesn't matter as much and you can shell them from afar. At short range it's useless. Since they both have a range they're not so good at, the Lancer wins as it is equal at all ranges.

Order of Anti-Air:

1) Striker - Sure, there's that missile lock warning, but that's just as effective as a scare tactic. I've seen Reavers run away from me holding a striker when I was out of ammo for it. :rofl:

2) Phoenix - Narrow pick, but the Phoenix gets the nod for the ability for slight corrections and the minor burst damage (it still does that, right?)

3) Lancer - difficult to lead an aircraft at range. Decent enough in close, but chances are at that range the aircraft is going to kill you before you do enough damage.

Order of Anti-Infantry:

1) Lancer - Sure, takes tons of shots, but the Lancer can put them out. 18 rounds per box, go to town!

2) Phoenix - Only useful for throwing off a sniper's aim. If you're using this on anyone else, take your Phoenix launcher and slam it rapidly into your head until such time as sense enters it.

3) Striker - if you EVER use this as Anti-Infantry when you have ANY other weapon available (even a Beamer)...take your Striker and beat yourself over the head until you lose conciousness...then have a friend beat you with it until you stop twitching.

Order of Ease of Use:

1) Phoenix - you're allowed human correction. Makes it a "smart" missile, so it's a bit more forgiving.

2) Striker - when lock on works (that 1 in 1000 times), the Striker is a scary weapon. MAXes and Air rightly fear it because all you have to do is maintain that lock (easier said than done sometimes...but meh)

3) Lancer - Effectiveness with this weapon comes down to the ability to lead and anticipate how long that charge up is. Once you've mastered that trick, it's easy as pie...but in comparison to the other two "automatic" guidance AV, few people would take the time to learn it.

My thoughts on the matter. All and all I think the weapons are too evenly balanced to say that one is intrinsically better than another. In certain situations there is usually a clear winner, but overall, pretty balanced.

[Liquidtide]

I believe the Phoenix could use a longer range. As an example it's range right now is about the length of the longest wall on a Tech Plant. 350 M i think it is. Anyway. But with the added range and that benifit I think the speed should be boosted. What this basically does is prevents phoenix users from "divebombing" behind the wall because with increased speed we wouldn't be able to make the finer movements like we can now, requiring a little more of a straighter shot to the target. I belive this is what is needed....


~Tide

[Queensidecastle]

I know I'll probably get flamed for this, but the Pheonix's range needs to be upped.
I want some of what you are smoking.

The Phoenix is already on the verge of being overpowered. Not because of straight damage, but because of its secondary abilities. There are already certain bases that a Phoenix user can sit in the tower and keep the vehicle pad down in the base. We dont need this happening at all bases because of a range buff, no thanks. Nothing supresses AA MAXs like the Phoenix can. Also it is already bad enough how far you have to drive a vehicle away from the battle to repair it. Hell the ammo dumps in bases are under such constant barage you can barely get ammo sometimes. Up the range to make all that easier? I dont think so

[scarpas]

[QUOTE=Mognoc] That's another thing, WHY are they wire controlled? They've got hover tanks, wormhole travel, yet missiles are still wire guided. Even today we are more advanced then this. QUOTE]

we still use wire controlled missils because the radio ones can be forced off course by enemy radio transmitters, or somthing like that...

:bang:

[Duffman]

i think the pheonix's dmg against soft targets needs to be nerfed a bit

[Colonel Nikolai]

Duffman, I agree wholeheartedly. It should not be a sniper-killer. There's nothing worse than attacking a base only to have Phoenixes flying over the wall and then diving down into your head. Does it kill you quickly? No. Does it kill you when twenty guys are doing it? Yes.

I feel the turning rate of the missile could be reduced a bit. I can weave it between bridge pylons right now, and that's a bit extreme for a missile. It would require Phoenix users to have an idea where their target is before firing, and then correct their lead until the hit was scored. Being able to do loops around bridges before slamming broadside into a Magrider is sarcely missile-like.

And for anyone still confused about wire-guided missiles, there is a camera in the missile or it is spotted by the naked eye. A spool of wire surrounds the engine and unravels easily in flight. The wire contains a simple analog visual wire that gives the gunner his camera feedback and a second wire that is used to send commands from a joystick or similar control device back to the missile. The wires have a tendancy to drag on underbrush and cannot be "flown" through trees and bushes because the wires will snare and the missile will crash. Hence my hatred of people flying Phoenixes like RC planes.

Fly-by-wire is when an aircraft is flown by electronic signals that travel to hydraulic devices which move the control surfaces. Older planes had actual high-strenght wires running from the other end of the joystick to the control flaps themselves, which meant you were actually pulling the flaps by hand. Fly-by-wire improves responsiveness and ease of manuvering.

[DeadTeddy]

if 20 people are doing something, it sure as hell WILL kill you. you can't expect not to be blown to bits by a bunch of missiles.