Lasher!!!!!!!

[VectorModule]

The recent VS winning streak explained (http://img17.photobucket.com/albums.../vanulittle.jpg) I am posting a complaint thread all that are against the recent lasher buff please post here. I am sick of playing against vanu, and so is my outfit(Renegade Legion) We are as we speak boycotting the damn vs. Whenever I see a lasher im outta there. I have almost lost my love for the game along with many others please lets all get together and do something about this!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Hito]

No offence but NC dont have much room to complain- ok thx look at ur own teams crap then speak >_>

[BadAsh]

The recent VS winning streak explained (http://img17.photobucket.com/albums.../vanulittle.jpg) I am posting a complaint thread all that are against the recent lasher buff please post here. I am sick of playing against vanu, and so is my outfit(Renegade Legion) We are as we speak boycotting the damn vs. Whenever I see a lasher im outta there. I have almost lost my love for the game along with many others please lets all get together and do something about this!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Now you know how the TR and VS feel about the Jackhammer. BTW, the Jackhammer is STILL more powerful than the Lasher. The difference now is that your previous easy wins are not so easy anymore. Time to tuff it up and deal with it.

[Hito]

:lol: :lol: :groovy: :lol: :lol: PS what a game.
The jackhammer makes it so lame.
When i want something to blame.
I blame the jackhammer and refrain.
Why not blame it? its so damn rigged.
My lashers as weak as a twig and yours strong as a brick.
I feel so small! so vulnerable suited in purple.
For all those brave men that i have soluted.
The VS arient winning cuz of lasher that coments just plain diluted.
All the noobs are on NC abusin the wepon of evryones dreams.
The jackhammer The gay The vulnerable The fray The people who hide Behind a gun.
The people who who often like to run.
The VS are skilled thats are excuse so ill see you in hell while you take the abuse.. of a million VS who had to go through the misuse............of the jackhammer .

-mE :groovy: :groovy: :groovy: :groovy:

[Krinsath]

The Lasher is not that powerful. It's that every noob who used to spam Jackhammers is now spamming Lashers.

As a weapon, the JH is more powerful up close, the MCG can outlast a Lasher. Boomers still blow up lasher users, tanks still run them over, AI MAXes still kill them. Lashers still stick around in backpacks once you've killed one, so it IS some sort of overpowered weapon, why not grab one yourself? Lord knows enough TR and VS use JHs.

The Lasher is by no means an assured kill up close unless they put a lot of rounds directly on a target. And the Lasher has a much smaller margin of error on that in comparison to the JH...until you get up close, when the JH has a much higher damage factor.

Haven't fought that many NC as a Lasher user (one of my alts used Lasher back when it was completely useless), but the TR give just as good as they get with Cyclers and MCGs....have you ever met your friend, the Gauss? That lasher drains it's clip pretty quickly (the fact nobody seems to consider), so dodge the orbs...use medpacks and wait for the reload and paste him.

Battlefield tests prove that in range, rate of fire and time to kill...the Quasar is far superior to the Lasher in terms of killing power.

For any NC (or TR) whiners: Pick up that MA rifle you paid for and learn to use it rather than running blindly at the guy who's going to kill you if you come into medium range. Learn to use grenades. Learn to use squads and the support that they can provide. Learn to use TACTICS beyond "run at guy until die, grab gun, repeat"....it's really NOT that difficult.

:rant:

[Dharkbayne]

The Lasher does 32 damage a hit now, it lashes AND hits, it's a bug, it's a 3 shot kill on agile. It's a fucking instagib. Shut up. The Jackhammer is fine. Just engage them outside their range.

[BadAsh]

The Lasher does 32 damage a hit now, it lashes AND hits, it's a bug, it's a 3 shot kill on agile. It's a fucking instagib. Shut up. The Jackhammer is fine. Just engage them outside their range.

The Lasher does not kill an agile in 3 hits and a Jack still has a faster TTK in CQB without using a tri-shot.

[Dharkbayne]

GreyFlcn tested it. It does exactly 32, he has a video.

[Madcow]

I love that an NC has the nads to bitch about somebody else's HA being overpowered less than a week after a patch. I've played all 3 empires quite a bit, but quityerbitchin. Freaking spoiled NC players.

[BadAsh]

GreyFlcn tested it. It does exactly 32, he has a video.

Have a Lasher in agile stand face to face with a Jack in agile and have them begin firing at the same time. The Jack wins every time. So if the Lasher is instagib the Jack is instagib+.

[ORANGE]

The Lasher is not that powerful. It's that every noob who used to spam Jackhammers is now spamming Lashers.

As a weapon, the JH is more powerful up close, the MCG can outlast a Lasher. Boomers still blow up lasher users, tanks still run them over, AI MAXes still kill them. Lashers still stick around in backpacks once you've killed one, so it IS some sort of overpowered weapon, why not grab one yourself? Lord knows enough TR and VS use JHs.

The Lasher is by no means an assured kill up close unless they put a lot of rounds directly on a target. And the Lasher has a much smaller margin of error on that in comparison to the JH...until you get up close, when the JH has a much higher damage factor.

Haven't fought that many NC as a Lasher user (one of my alts used Lasher back when it was completely useless), but the TR give just as good as they get with Cyclers and MCGs....have you ever met your friend, the Gauss? That lasher drains it's clip pretty quickly (the fact nobody seems to consider), so dodge the orbs...use medpacks and wait for the reload and paste him.

Battlefield tests prove that in range, rate of fire and time to kill...the Quasar is far superior to the Lasher in terms of killing power.

For any NC (or TR) whiners: Pick up that MA rifle you paid for and learn to use it rather than running blindly at the guy who's going to kill you if you come into medium range. Learn to use grenades. Learn to use squads and the support that they can provide. Learn to use TACTICS beyond "run at guy until die, grab gun, repeat"....it's really NOT that difficult.

:rant:

Agreed

[Gigabein]

Let's play with some numbers. HA across all three servers according to Thott...

BR 1+
VS +5.8%
NC -2.1
TR +0.7

BR 5+
VS +6.3
NC -2.3
TR +0.8

BR 10+
VS +7.5
NC -2.8
TR -0.1

BR 15+
VS +7.5
NC -3.8
TR -0.3

BR 20
VS +7.2
NC -5.0
TR +1.2

A 6% increase overall in Lashers coupled with a 2% drop in Jackhammers. TR HA got a small increase following the MCG's small buff; makes sense. Let's look at population.

All Servers
TR 8770
NC 7834
VS 9458

Emerald
TR 3847
NC 3804
VS 4253

Markov
TR 3352
NC 2298
VS 3121

Werner
TR 1571
NC 1732
VS 2084

Vanu wins in population now. People switching loyalties? Possibly.

6% of 9,458 is 567 additional Lasher-users
-2% of 7,835 is 157 fewer Jackhammer-users

With an already lower population, you gotta wonder.... is the NC's once over-powered weapon not enough to overcome the bandwagon hoppers and the mass of players fed up with their dominance?

[BigFreak]

Yea, the thing about looting Lashers is all fine, but the whole ammo thing is a somewhat limiting factor. Just thought I'd slide that in there.

[SilverLord]

Ok, i don't care about if you get hit with a direct orb and it does 32 damage. Good for that. What I'm really mad about is that it seems that even if your behind the lasher user, you still get lashed when he fires, right now, I'd rather go up against a JH than a lasher.

Visual:
As you can see, the lash hits the guy that the orbs are going at and the guy behind the lasher user.http://www.planetsideimages.com/uploads/1077574580_untitled.JPG

[bryan25]

you idiots u know that the lasher is too powerful u just dont want to admit it u pussies.


You Vanu make me sick you know that the lasher is too powerful and now u have more people comin to your side just cuzz of the lasher.

[Desperado]

^rofl

anyway, It'd be cool to keep shit like that on the OF forums.

a bit off topic but i found a funny pic so I'll just post it here.....
http://www.blogsofwar.com/d2a/followorders.jpg

[BadAsh]

you idiots u know that the lasher is too powerful u just dont want to admit it u pussies.


You Vanu make me sick you know that the lasher is too powerful and now u have more people comin to your side just cuzz of the lasher.

Says the man with the Jackhammer...

Am I the only one finding amusement in all of this? Looks like the power shift moved slightly away from the NC on one area and the crying just won't stop.

[Angel_of_Death]

you idiots u know that the lasher is too powerful u just dont want to admit it u pussies.


You Vanu make me sick you know that the lasher is too powerful and now u have more people comin to your side just cuzz of the lasher.

We don't want to admit the Lasher is too strong....even if it does turn the tides of war by itself, why don't you admit that you're tank, MA, AV, pistol and HA are too strong then?

So what if we have more people coming to our side? This is our fault that most of you NCs are bandwagoners? JH still owns Lasher. And most of your NC weapons still own anyone elses. Unless anyone can give me reason to believe otherwise. The only people that I'll allow to complain are TR, and even then, valid arguments boys and girls...

Taste of your own medicine, that someone finally has something to rival a JH (even though it's more or less the same gun).

And the NC told us WE bitched....

[Rayder]

Lasher is fine, it's the lash that's the big problem. Before the patch, the Lasher's orbs didn't lash 5 m or under, but now they do, and that's a big problem.

I'm not sure whether the lash hits the same person twice, it probably doesn't, but if it does it needs to be stopped.

Currently, the Lasher's orbs lash in all directions. It should only lash to the sides, and the range of the lashes should be cut in half. This IMO and a couple others, would fix all the bs.

[spartan606]

The recent VS winning streak explained (http://img17.photobucket.com/albums.../vanulittle.jpg) I am posting a complaint thread all that are against the recent lasher buff please post here. I am sick of playing against vanu, and so is my outfit(Renegade Legion) We are as we speak boycotting the damn vs. Whenever I see a lasher im outta there. I have almost lost my love for the game along with many others please lets all get together and do something about this!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Eh, what's this an NC bitching about a HA gun? I thought I'd never see the day. Now you claim that the new Lasher is unbalanced, but I think that you've never been on the opposite side of a JH-wielding surgile. Learn to deal with it. Anyways, in my experience the Pulsar is better than the Lasher, you just have to know how to use it. Now quit your crying and learn to use your Gauss (it's better than the JH anyways) and use different tatics.


Sorry, but I can't help but leave with a joke I've heard...

Q: Why don't NC vehicles ever get anywhere?
A: They all want to ride shotgun.

[00AgentDuck]

Also, look at what situation you are in when you were killed by a lasher. Did you get unloaded at by maybe 5 guys with lashers, get caught off guard, or any other way to get you killed. Use tactics like mentioned earlier. Also, when a patch goes through people want to try to use the weapon that got buffed so they all try it out, more lashers=greater chance to die from a lasher. I've played all three sides,many others have as well, make sure you try it out yourself before you say anything.

[Augustus]

you idiots u know that the lasher is too powerful u just dont want to admit it u pussies.


You Vanu make me sick you know that the lasher is too powerful and now u have more people comin to your side just cuzz of the lasher.
How very ironic coming from an NC.

In the interest of fairness lets make a compromise.
If the devs state that the lash behind is a bug we get to keep it for as long as the NC had their quad-shot bug.

[Gigabein]

The TR should get their own bug too. Like maybe every 5th shot takes away 50% of the target's remaining life.

[BadAsh]

^rofl

anyway, It'd be cool to keep shit like that on the OF forums.

a bit off topic but i found a funny pic so I'll just post it here.....
http://www.blogsofwar.com/d2a/followorders.jpg

Dude that pic is killin me... LOL

[Scorched_earth]

I get 42 grief per shot to friendly since the new patch! ahhhh :o( The lasher hasnt really been buffed only the lash effects last longer and 25 clip! Since the lasher patch everyons moved to vs making a whole army of lashers! THat's y if you go to www.planetsidestats.com vs hav won non stop since the patch! But yeh the nc jack hammer never gets close enough to be now since patch :D I sense the devs r already making a new nerf patch for next week :(

I'm still laughing bout smokejumpers joke bout: how many nc does it take to drive a car? They cant! they all wanna ride shotgun.
(sumthing like that anyways) The fact the dev sed that was funny

Vanu get all the exp you can b4 we're nerfed :o( Or the bug goes!

^ the terrain on that pic looks like b4 beta shots! looks much better than now

[HawkEye]

lasher is a wee bit overpowerd, but it can be beat.

[Dutchbasterd]

arial3dark red

Dear whinners of the NC, (Every NC on Markov that I know of,)
Just give it up guys, you know that all your weapons are overpowered, and yet you bitch when someone else takes the spotlight.
This is the Era of the Vanu And the Lasher!
I do admit that 5m radius behind kill thing is a bit whack, but I mean like, they probably will fix it so let us have our fun ya over powered sons of cowards!
and yeah just so you know dont bitch at us, cause we bitch back :)
Have a nice day :)

[Krinsath]

If there is a bug where you get hit and lashed at the same time, and get lashed behind the lasher...then yes, by all means fix those...same thing I said about the JH (which I also use heavily)...if it's a bug then it needs to be fixed. I doubt it's going to change things THAT much...

Also, to the fact that it does 32 damage per hit...it kills in 4 hits...as to my simple mind, 32x3 = 96...and 96 < 100 (and if they're smart and carry medpacks and/or are around a healing module...that difference can be larger). So 4 hits from a Lasher kills an agile....4 hits from a JH kills an agile. Both have a fairly decent spread on damage. They're roughly equal still.

As to ammo being hard to get a hold of...chances are the lasher user you decked had some. Anyone using a beamer, pulsar or lasher is carrying it. Every VS in his jammies has a box. I have 600 rounds (at least) of the stuff in one of my lockers plus tons of weapons...please don't try and use that as an argument. Sure, it's a little bit harder to get a hold of than shotgun ammo, but 1 box = 2 clips...more than the poor JH can claim anymore (not that I feel any pity...the combat effectiveness of the boxes remains the same overall).

I'm not VS...my VS characters are actually the lowest BRs of any. My primaries are both TR and NC, and I have kicked post-patch lashers off of continents. Is it a bit tougher? Yes...but the lasher sucked prior, so that isn't saying much. The VS HA has just been moved into the realm of TR and NC HA...you NEVER want to be close to them. As I said earlier, the MCG still seems to be the most effective of the HAs.

Having problems with lashers spamming a hallway? You can't get in you say? Your Jackhammer dies as you run blindly down the hallway firing shells into a hail of Lasher orbs? Man...our Heavy Assault can't break through...this calls for something...different...special, if you will. If only there was a cert for such unusual situations.

But what would we call such a cert? I know! Bizarre Assault! And it will have weapons that you can bounce off of walls so as not to expose yourself to fire and use neat munitions to create stacking damage over time that do area effect damage. Like some sort of....napalm....only green! Yes...the devs will need to make this cert and weaponry to combat the lasher...and create this special group of assault weapons for these circumstances. If only they would do so! If only we had this magical weapon!

OH WAIT! We *do* have Special Assault with the Thumper, a three second delay and plasma grenades! OMG! WHAT A SHOCK! You mean...we can use weapons OTHER than the Jackhammer? :eek: WHO KNEW?!

Sorry...that wasn't meant as a flame of any one individual but whining about HA balance is really starting to get on my nerves. NERF THE JH! NERF THE MCG! NERF THE LASHER!! I almost wish they were real weapons so I could club people until they stopped moving.

Here's the indoors food chain people... HA > everything EXCEPT MAX suits and other HA. Those two exceptions don't guarantee survival, they just mean a more even fight. If you beat a HA indoors with something else on your own...congrats, you bucked the trend. If you get owned by HA indoors, congrats...you're proof the game is performing as designed. Does it suck to be slammed backwards by HA? Yes...which is why you have one of your own...would you counter a Prowler convoy with Delievers? Hell no, the 20mm is not as effective of an AV weapon as the 100mmm. SAME CONCEPT.

Sure, the NC HA can't compete with the Lasher down a choke point. The Lasher can't compete with the JH at point-blank. Neither can compete with the MCG outside at range. It's a balance people, you won't win ALL the time. The reason you see all this shift is that the Lasher got a buff and the JH got a "nerf" so people go running from this "nerfed" weapon and pick up the new "powerhouse" weapon. Stupid Llamas, yes...but they'll always be stupid. To ruin the balance, as they did after Lasher 2.0 by taking it WAY too low (not that a nerf was unwarranted), because of stupid whiners willl just lead to more "NERF THE <hated weapon X>" comments. MAKE THE CIRCLE OF WHINING AND NERFING STOP! ADAPT AND PLAY THE EFFING GAME!

:rant:

[SilverLord]

Fix the lash damage when I'm behind the guy, thats all I ask.

[Krinsath]

And your request is perfectly reasonable and I hope they attend to it with all due haste Silverlord. :) Bug fix does NOT equal nerf...despite what the NC seem to think. ;)

[Rbstr]

Its fine by me it has a bug like the JH had, the devs probably didn't intend it but they have given the VS an unfair advantage. Also right after a patch its IMPOSSIBLE to gage game ballence because everyone is switching around to see how the new weapons are, some will go back other will stay. Alot of the empire pop increases can be contriubuted to letting people have to chars per server, alot of people are probaby making Alts to test out the new stuff.

the world maps are tiping out of ballence to the VS side more often after the patch but time will tell if it realy its that bad.

Alot of it is the bandwagon, if somebody complains and say it some people subcontiously belive it. Then they make it into a problem that isn't that big of a deal, like mad cow that can only hurt you if you don't cook it well, and SARS that killed a smaller percentage and number of people than the FLU does in america alone.

Its a tendancy of people to exagerate to make a point, but it starts to build with every retelling

[SilverLord]

Thank you. it's weird, the TR is the most balanced empire, never have to be buffed or nerfed. :)

[Duffman]

cept our maxs which are just plain terrible and everyone knows it

[Gigabein]

I dare somebody to compare the "lash behind" bug to the jackhammer quad-shot bug. Go ahead. Do it. Just make sure you're wearing protective headgear.

[WritheNC]

I still vote to throw all HA out the door. SA wouldn't make this problem because its common pool.

The only way I've seen the lasher being beaten indoors is by thumpers. I've seen 6 NC with plasma bouncing nades down heavily populated VS tower stairwells while others move up the other side to hack the console, and bunches of NC at the backdoor just hurling nade after nade out of it.

If the VS get close or do a rush however, the whole thing is broken. That's the entire problem with the lasher: the only way to give the VS the same treatment is with the thumper, which isn't as good for the combat situation an attacking lasher player puts you through. You can't use the thumper when they get close or you will kill yourself, and you can't use it in close quarters with teammates because it will kill them and cause untold amounts of grief. Unlike the lasher, which you can spam near, far, and near teammates cuz there's very little danger it will make such a problem.

You know what's funny? Since the patch there are still players that made "Nerf the xxx" threads on the OF about:

Gauss
Vanguard
Sparrow
Scattercannon
Jackhammer
MCG
Striker

BTW, the Jackhammer is STILL more powerful than the Lasher.

Yes. The JH gets a .5 second better TTK, and gives up:

A 25 round clip.
A 3 second reload time as opposed to 4.
A 4 second ammo switch from soft to AP.
Inability to damage targets behind cover.
Inability to kill efficiently past 25meters.

Yes, it has other strengths, but the lasher has gone above and beyond in terms of firepower, versatility(this is a VS strength so I don't sweat this one much), and efficiency.

It doesn't really matter. The lasher is going to get nerfed. There's too much bad blood.

10 months of people bitching about the JH on the OF has made many people not forget about it, even after it was nerfed 3 times; that just means they will get revenge by bitching about the Lasher so much until the Devs cave.

[Krinsath]

I agree that they should consider ditching HA or redoing the entire concept of it...just to shut the whiners up. THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS!!

Ok, moving on...so the problem with the NC thumper barrage is that once the VS get in close, the lasher starts to take over. If ONLY the NC had a weapon with close range lethality! Where is the flaw in this statement?

4 guys with thumpers, 4 guys with JHs, 1 adv hack, 1 eng/medic

Wait...you mean this game is about TEAM tactics? WTF?! Wherever would one get this idea??

The lasher with the bugs may be a bit more powerful than it should be (bugs get fixed people, calm down...breathe deep...), but it's STILL not the killer people make it out to be. I was just playing around with it thinking "damn...I'm being really effective with this"...logged off after a bit over 2 hours of playing to discover I had 28 kills. I've logged off after the same amount of time as a sniper and had closer to 50...logged off as a tanker and had closer to 90...OMG! NERF THE BOLT DRIVER!! IT'S A SUPER LEET KILLING MACHINE!

28 kills is a so-so outing for me...and considering that the majority of the kills were in defense of a tower (i.e. - short trip to repair/heal), not such a surprise. That and the TR I was playing against were horrendous for the most part...when I can jammer a Prowler, not once...not twice...but THREE times...walk around 1/4 of the base when this Prowler KNOWS WHERE I AM...hack the back door without any certs...get into the base and then kill the Prowler crew as they dismount and try to attack me in the hallway....as if I'd never think to turn around and fight them...and then...THEN...walk BACK TO THE VS TOWER AND REARM....w....t....f....that has to be a record for stupidity...

If these are the people complaining about the lasher it makes a lot of sense...no concept of how to use the weapons at their disposal.

Want to complain about a bug? Fine, go right ahead. If you remember being a part of stories like the one above...wait for them to put in the live training (Squad vs. Squad on the same side)...and have someone teach you tactics. I'm still baffled why the Prowler driver did not once attempt to run over the guy carrying a lasher and a pulsar. :confused: :huh:

[Unknown]

Hehe, that little story reminded me of something that happened a (long) whle back. I'd guess...4 months ago, maybe 3 and 1/2. Anyways, I had HA, SA, and Rexo. It was during the day, and the TR were making a small push for Amerish (just about everything during the day is small). There was more fighting to the west, but I was at Azeban because someone had ghost hacked it and I resecured it single handedly (there was only one guy at the time). So then I'm getting ready to go and a couple more guys show up. I dispatch of them with my Lasher, then 3 or 4 more guys show up (some of the same guys respawning). So I decided to stay and defend from this squad, I'd say total there were maybe...8 guys, but not coming in a group. The facility had an Interlink Facility benifit (I think this was not long after Lattice Link Benifits went in) so I was seeing on the radar where people were coming in and surging to meet them. For example, I'd see a couple people coming in the front door, run to the main room and burst through the door while one stopped to hack, dispatch them quickly, then wait till I saw more incoming and run to greet them, sometimes running into a MAX and hitting him with my deci. I kept this up for a good 20-30 minutes before I finally succumbed to them. All said and done, I probably died 3 times, but got around 35 kills, single handedly, thanks to the radar benifit, the lasher, and the Decimator.

The moral of the story? I dunno, it's late, I just thought it was cool... I suppose HA is a tad over powered in situations like that, but it's honeslty not that bad. Those guys were horribly coordinated, at most coming at me in groups of 3, and half of them were probably newbies (I don't pretend to be an 'uber l33t' player, so if I was able to take care of them that easily then they probably weren't exaclty seasoned veterans). I think that it has enough downsides, and enough counters, to make it at least moderately balanced. It costs 4 cert points, useful only at short ranges, and takes up alot of space (not that big of a deal since for most people it doesn't leave the holster, but when you need to quickly hotswap it for something it can be annoying). All those reasons, and the fact that I never used anything else (and thus it got a tad boring for me) is why I gave it up. Now instead I use mainly the Punisher, the Rocklet, occasionally the Pulsar and the Thumper, and rarely the sweeper (was never much good with it, but I'm fairly leathal with the Punisher *shrug*).

As for the Lasher, it badly needed the clip increase, and the <5m lash does not seem overpowered, it actually makes sense to me (I can't count the times I've had surge monkeys charge in my face and circle-strafe me to death without me being able to do a thing about it cause they're still managing to dogde my orbs, largely thanks to warping). Is lashing behind them really a huge problem? I mean c'mon, you gotta get within 5m of them, if you've got a jackhammer that's what we call "Insta-gib Range". The reload time decrease was probably not nessessary, and nobody was really asking for both the clip increase *and* reload timer shortening, most people just wanted either/or. If there's some sort of bug that's causing a damage increase then they should fix it by all means, but if not, then I really don't see what all the whining is about...

[GreyFox]

The lasher only needs to be bugfixed, and then wait a week or two for the population to balance out, and the lasher users decrease a bit.

Because a big part of the problem is that many more people play VS now, and alot of them have HA now. I know I am one of the people who switched to HA to try it out.

[PhoenixTypeX]

IMO i think you whiners should stfu especially NC now you know what the jackhammer is like for the TR and NC. For people who are studpidly minded the Lasher does not need to be nerfed it is a balanced weapon bar the bug of a person behind when firing being lashed. The own reason people are getting owned is because a vast amount of people are using the weapon at this point in time. For god sake and wait a few weeks before slating the weapon as over time people will use it less and it will go back to normal. FFS for the first time in planetside it is becomming more balanced and noobs sorry to generalise but mainly the NC do not like this as they are having to rely less on supperior firepower and point & click methods and employ tactics and a bit of skill. You NC are getting owned as the TR and VS have always had to be smart to beat you NC I think it's time your evolved your playing style got some skill and worked out how to beat the VS lasher like the rest of us had to try beat the jackhammer! :evil:

P.S im pissed off

http://www.planetsidestats.com/Sig/21/479411/2/sig.jpg

[Dyentious]

The only thing that i've noticed that really pisses me off about hte lasher is how the lashes go through walls.

I can deal with a ton of lashers spamming a hallway, but it really ticks me off when i'm nowhere near being in sight of the spammers at all, yet i'm dying because every lash orb that hits the door or wall is going through the wall and hitting me on the other side.

I have been in battles where i die multiple times without even getting in line of sight of the enemy because any time i get anywhere near the entrance i'm getting hit by random lashes. I feel like anytime i'm fighting vs and actually somwhere near the enemy i basically have a timer on my life cause it just keeps ticking away.

Thats really lame. It's one thing if they actually hit me with a lash orb or a guy next to me, but just to be able to shoot a wall or door and have the lashes hit everybody on the other side is lame as hell.

[Krinsath]

The only thing that i've noticed that really pisses me off about hte lasher is how the lashes go through walls.

Yes, as do many other area affect weapons, such as the Burster and the Falcon. Hell, I've been damaged by PAIN FIELDS walking through the hallway that happens to be overtop the generator. Lots of collision detection bugs.

I can deal with a ton of lashers spamming a hallway, but it really ticks me off when i'm nowhere near being in sight of the spammers at all, yet i'm dying because every lash orb that hits the door or wall is going through the wall and hitting me on the other side.

The wall thing, as mentioned above, is most likely one of the bugs. The door thing could also very well be a bug where the door APPEARS closed, but really isn't. It's becoming far too common. The Lasher is an area affect weapon, so LOS is not strictly required. There are positions at the backdoor for instance where Lasher orbs can be sent out into the exterior of the base without exposing the user to any appreciable amounts of fire. This is why we have the thumper...

I have been in battles where i die multiple times without even getting in line of sight of the enemy because any time i get anywhere near the entrance i'm getting hit by random lashes. I feel like anytime i'm fighting vs and actually somwhere near the enemy i basically have a timer on my life cause it just keeps ticking away.

Same way I feel when being attacked by a MCG :) Range on that thing is quite nice. Also the same way I felt going into a base full of NC surgemonkeys...you never actually SAW the guy, b/c he was a the top of the stairs using 3rd person cam and surge, but damned if you didn't get killed. Sucks to be TR as we don't get a fun instagib bug like that to play with. :(

Thats really lame. It's one thing if they actually hit me with a lash orb or a guy next to me, but just to be able to shoot a wall or door and have the lashes hit everybody on the other side is lame as hell.

As I said, that may have been lag or a bug in that isolated circumstance. I've been at many a backdoor defense over the past week with a Lasher and anyone who's been killed has been in direct LOS. Not saying it doesn't happen because PS does all sorts of wondrous (read: stupid) things, but I don't know that it's a *common* condition. Certainly something to keep an eye on though. Did you /bug it?

[Veteran]

Visualize No Heavy Assault

[Madcow]

Let's play with some numbers. HA across all three servers according to Thott...

BR 1+
VS +5.8%
NC -2.1
TR +0.7

BR 5+
VS +6.3
NC -2.3
TR +0.8

BR 10+
VS +7.5
NC -2.8
TR -0.1

BR 15+
VS +7.5
NC -3.8
TR -0.3

BR 20
VS +7.2
NC -5.0
TR +1.2

A 6% increase overall in Lashers coupled with a 2% drop in Jackhammers. TR HA got a small increase following the MCG's small buff; makes sense. Let's look at population.

All Servers
TR 8770
NC 7834
VS 9458

Emerald
TR 3847
NC 3804
VS 4253

Markov
TR 3352
NC 2298
VS 3121

Werner
TR 1571
NC 1732
VS 2084

Vanu wins in population now. People switching loyalties? Possibly.

6% of 9,458 is 567 additional Lasher-users
-2% of 7,835 is 157 fewer Jackhammer-users

With an already lower population, you gotta wonder.... is the NC's once over-powered weapon not enough to overcome the bandwagon hoppers and the mass of players fed up with their dominance?

Keep in mind, Thottbot only pulls stats for players in outfits. NC had the smallest population on Thottbot even when they had the largest population on a daily basis across the servers. The HA change is to be expected, the only HA which was buffed at all was the Lasher and everybody and their Mom is trying it out. Jackhammer users, used to ridiculously easy kills are now trying other tactics out to see if they can become more efficient with other weapons. Most of them will come back to the Jack before too long.

[GreyFox]

How many non-outfit players are there per server then?

[Madcow]

How many non-outfit players are there per server then?

As far as I know, they don't release that info. Since the population drops a couple of months after release they've shown a tendency to hide any possible information which would let us know how many subscribers there are.

[Mudflap]

Sorry, I know I'll be flamed by all these fools for being an NC, but I play all three empires thank you very freakin much! I have 2 BR14 VS, a BR12 TR, and a couple NC of course. Lasher is overpowered now. It could just be a bug, but to compare it to the JH and say that the JH kills faster is avoiding the problem. The JH has to get into range, the lasher has an insane range for HA.

I've actually died before I even saw or heard an orb fired. I love it with my lasher user, but it is cheap. Stop brow-beating NC for coplaining about an obvious issue. The JH issue is not that the JH is unbalanced so much as surgiles suck. The fact is, the lasher is now the best grunt weapon out there by a long shot. I am a pretty good player, but I seem incapable of taking even pansy lasher users out one on on. I manage to kill about 1 out fo every 5 or 6 lasher users I come across, and that's just sad.

[Gigabein]

Do you solo grunt a lot?

[Phaelon]

Wow, huh interesting.

[GreyFox]

I seem to be having troubles with the Lasher outdoors... I always get beat by the MCG when I'm not that close, and by MA when I'm even further away, and by the JH when I'm up close...

I've gotten Surge now, and it helps to get in range.

Indoors though, now that is another matter. 2-4 Lasher users can make quite a wall of disco balls with devastating effect.

But we could do that before the patch too, so it's seems to be mostly the fact that we got a lot of players now, and a lot of Lasher users.

[Mudflap]

Do you solo grunt a lot?
I was born a grunt.

I seem to be having troubles with the Lasher outdoors... I always get beat by the MCG when I'm not that close, and by MA when I'm even further away, and by the JH when I'm up close...

I've gotten Surge now, and it helps to get in range.

Indoors though, now that is another matter. 2-4 Lasher users can make quite a wall of disco balls with devastating effect.

But we could do that before the patch too, so it's seems to be mostly the fact that we got a lot of players now, and a lot of Lasher users.
And now the VS can do what they were good at before even better with a larger clip and faster reloads, and bugged or excessive damage and lash.

Every HA user gets owned by MA at long range. HA is really for indoor use. The lasher has always owned halways, and now it does it even better. The other empires have nothing to compete with the VS hallways ownage. The lasher's range means that in a bio lab, you could have 3-5 lasher users guarding each of the hallways going from the stairs to the CC, and virtually nobody would ever breach.

[KIAsan]

Hmm, sounds like they should use maxs to overcome the lasher spam. We tried it the other evening, worked like a champ. Sure, maxes die, but by then, your in the base (and can rez them). If your NC, several maxes (3 or 4) crashing with shields should work just fine.

Yes, they need to fix the lasher bug, however, don't just assume there is something wrong with the changes. We just need to get used to the idea that VS don't sux anymore! So stop whining and adapt and overcome!

[Krinsath]

The other side of the Bio lab is you drop the gen (which is on the roof and hard to defend), whenever they run out of ammo, they're sunk. I know, I know...tactics shouldn't extend beyond "run at enemy shooting gun"...but that would solve the situation...especially since most of these lasher noobs fire as soon as the door opens whether a real target is there or not. A few extra minutes and suddenly you're just fighting a bunch of guys with knives.

[JakeLogan]

Hmm, sounds like they should use maxs to overcome the lasher spam. We tried it the other evening, worked like a champ. Sure, maxes die, but by then, your in the base (and can rez them). If your NC, several maxes (3 or 4) crashing with shields should work just fine
Well thats the NC then what are the TR supposed to do? lockdown just so our MAXs can be just as effective as everyone elses? or are we suppose to raid with plasma thumpers and such? (I'm just asking for tactics because the only thing I have found effective is waiting the VS out till the Base goes neutral)

[Gigabein]

There isn't supposed to be a 1-cert solution to taking a well-defended base. Snipers (for clearing walls), vehicles, and flyers secure the courtyard. Inside, use thumpers to suppress and weaken their chokepoint, send in AI/AV maxes to bust through and follow in with HA and Deci's to mop up.

[Neofite]

Hi all,

as a new player (about 3 weeks as TR), i noticed that the lasher takes out massive amount of guys. Dont know how it used to be, but they are harsh when they do splash damage just going by you and you around the corner. Maybe it is just my newbieness :D

[dscytherulez]

I don't like to complain, but I think the damage vs. a MAX is insanely overpowered. I went one on one inside a base against a lasher user with my DC MAX and got totally owned. You barely have to reload the lasher twice to down a full health MAX. Plus, inside bases the VS can run circles around you. I believe that HA should be good in a battle vs. both infantry and MAXes, but I don't think they should be able to go one on one...EVER.

[Madcow]

I don't like to complain, but I think the damage vs. a MAX is insanely overpowered. I went one on one inside a base against a lasher user with my DC MAX and got totally owned. You barely have to reload the lasher twice to down a full health MAX. Plus, inside bases the VS can run circles around you. I believe that HA should be good in a battle vs. both infantry and MAXes, but I don't think they should be able to go one on one...EVER.

How is this any different than the Jackhammer or the MCG with AP rounds loaded? Besides the obvious versatility of not needing an additional type of round for it, it's no different than the other HA in taking down MAXs.

[dscytherulez]

No, the lasher can down a MAX faster then both the JH and the MCG with AP rounds loaded.

[BadAsh]

No, the lasher can down a MAX faster then both the JH and the MCG with AP rounds loaded.

75 AP rounds drops a MAX, so a MCG can kill a MAX with 1 clip... As can a Jack... the Lasher needs to reload and empty 2 full clips to drop a MAX...

The Lasher's advantage is that it's deadlier to a MAX at medium range because of the COF for the MCG and Jack and the Lasher need not change ammo types. But, the easiest MAX killing tactic is to be in Agile and just get behind the MAX... the MAX can't turn around faster than you can strafe so... dead MAX.

[dscytherulez]

No, not since ammo buff. The lasher barely needs to reload once to kill a full up max. Not to mention it takes quite some time to get off 75 MCG rounds (In actuallity, it shoots slower than it appears to). The lasher can kill a max faster. I'll take an MCG vs a lasher in a max anyday.

[Mudflap]

The other side of the Bio lab is you drop the gen (which is on the roof and hard to defend), whenever they run out of ammo, they're sunk. I know, I know...tactics shouldn't extend beyond "run at enemy shooting gun"...but that would solve the situation...especially since most of these lasher noobs fire as soon as the door opens whether a real target is there or not. A few extra minutes and suddenly you're just fighting a bunch of guys with knives.
That was an example, not the only scenario that this could play out in. I'm not yelling nerf, but I'm not sure what the lasher's supposed to be like without whatever bug is fubarring it atm. All I can say is, the lasher is insane right now. Having 3 guys hold a hallway against 20 is insane, no matter what they're using. The lasher is the only weapon that can do this, and it just got better.

[TheN00b]

This is at least a mildly frustrating topic for me, so forgive me if I go overboard. Before anyone reads this, they should know that this statement is directed at the NC; The Terrans realyl do have a bit to complain about :( . The root of my frustration is that, as NC go, I consider myself a pretty fairminded one, and tend to dislike it when people cry 'Nerf!'. Last night, however, while the NC and VS were fighting it out in South-East Cyssor, the broadcasts at Pamba were filled with childish whining about the Lasher, and how 'utrly ovrpowring n cheap' it is :mad: :rolleyes: . I mean, come one folks! How long did you have the most absolutely overpowered weapon in the entire game :mad: ???!!! You just have the use tactics to defeat. On second thoughts, that might disqualify many of the NC, who have trouble tying their own shoes!!! Outdoors, it's simple; Just switch over to the Gauss and alternatively crouch and strafe at farther away than the Lasher's optimal range. Indoors, as a couple of people have pointed out, all you need is the right combination of forces, rather than rabid Jackhammer zergs. I personally prefer a MAX swarm, backed up by a small engineer corps, but a advance squad or two of Thumper-men is also affective at softening up any resistance.

Good day-The Ranter

[BadAsh]

This is at least a mildly frustrating topic for me, so forgive me if I go overboard. Before anyone reads this, they should know that this statement is directed at the NC; The Terrans realyl do have a bit to complain about :( . The root of my frustration is that, as NC go, I consider myself a pretty fairminded one, and tend to dislike it when people cry 'Nerf!'. Last night, however, while the NC and VS were fighting it out in South-East Cyssor, the broadcasts at Pamba were filled with childish whining about the Lasher, and how 'utrly ovrpowring n cheap' it is :mad: :rolleyes: . I mean, come one folks! How long did you have the most absolutely overpowered weapon in the entire game :mad: ???!!! You just have the use tactics to defeat. On second thoughts, that might disqualify many of the NC, who have trouble tying their own shoes!!! Outdoors, it's simple; Just switch over to the Gauss and alternatively crouch and strafe at farther away than the Lasher's optimal range. Indoors, as a couple of people have pointed out, all you need is the right combination of forces, rather than rabid Jackhammer zergs. I personally prefer a MAX swarm, backed up by a small engineer corps, but a advance squad or two of Thumper-men is also affective at softening up any resistance.

Good day-The Ranter

/signed

[Jordash01]

http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20043

[TheN00b]

JordAsh, please, please, please, please, please, please post more! You rock, my likkle private (as in the rank :D ) accomplice :D !

[Jordash01]

Thank you, I'm quite practiced in these sort of posts (if not with the PlanetSide crowd). But, FYI, I moved the post to a new topic (before I thought anyone would have read it, bleh :doh: ), with hopes that this one wouldn't get too full, and that people could still rant and rave here.

[BadAsh]

Thank you, I'm quite practiced in these sort of posts (if not with the PlanetSide crowd). But, FYI, I moved the post to a new topic (before I thought anyone would have read it, bleh :doh: ), with hopes that this one wouldn't get too full, and that people could still rant and rave here.

Nice post, well said.

[Mudflap]

http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20043
No offense, but that's a pretty amazing way to turn a "Lasher is overpowered thread", which I might remind you that the Jackhammer had more than it's fair share of, into a "JH was mean so hold me" thread.

I am pleased that you agree that the lasher is overpowered in its current form though, the major difference between the lasher's current power and the JH's former power though is that the lasher has virtually none of the JH's weaknesses. That is my main reason for the rant.

The JH was short range, triple shot, switch modes, one shot, get kill. If you miss a single round, they're still alive. The lasher is medium range, spamtastic, don't need to aim, can't run away, totally outrageous damage.

How, praytell, would you like me to adapt in order to take out a weapon user that I can't get near?

Perhaps, I should stand at the top of the backdoor and use my thumper right? Well, all the damn barney balls impacting on the wall lash and kill people who are even some distance from the door. Tactic worthless. Maybe I should get a max? The lasher is THE best HA weapon aainst MAXes. Tactic worthless. Maybe I should be a cloaker? It lashes dammit. Tactic worthless. Maybe I should surge in? LOL. Tactic worthless. Maybe I should fly a reaver in there?

The lasher has no indoor weakness, at all. You can draw parallels to the JH, but for everything you say, you had the ability to adapt. Until you're on the other end of the lash, you really have no room to speak.

I know many of you are bitter about the JH, and just like to tell the NC to eat it. I've wanted to kill the damn NC surgiles as much as the TR surgiles many times, but this is a bit much.

[Angel_of_Death]

You guys over exaggerate like little fucks. The Lasher is good, but it is only amazing because of the lashing bugs. If you can't kill a Lasher outdoors with an MA then you just plain suck. Run backwards and shoot if you are closer outdoors, the balls are still slow and easy to dodge, even the lashing damage can be avoided.

Buff the MCG, then we'll have no more bitching, unless the NC find some other bullshit to complain about.

It isn't as powerful against MAXs as you guys say. If you can't kill a guy with a lasher in an AI MAX, then you need to assess yourself and not the equipment.

Ya, and I'm pissed. Every server I go on has some bitch whining about the Lasher, and it pisses me off to come here too and find 90 % of you just plain bitching, with no constructive criticism.

[scarpas]

uhh... that last post was really wierd... j/k


anyway, to kill a lasher user USE JAMMER GRENADES WHY ISNT THIS COMMON SCENCE GEESH WTF IS WITH YOU PEOPLE ARRGH I JUST^ WANT TO COAT YOU PEOPLE WITH ACNE CAUSING LARD AND FRUIT COCKTAIL IN HEAVY SYRUP :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

PS im tr

edit, d'oh i meant plasma grenades

[Spee]

uhh... that last post was really wierd... j/k


anyway, to kill a lasher user USE JAMMER GRENADES WHY ISNT THIS COMMON SCENCE GEESH WTF IS WITH YOU PEOPLE ARRGH I JUST^ WANT TO COAT YOU PEOPLE WITH ACNE CAUSING LARD AND FRUIT COCKTAIL IN HEAVY SYRUP :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

PS im tr



YOURE DUMB.

[Fragmatic]

The recent VS winning streak explained (http://img17.photobucket.com/albums.../vanulittle.jpg) I am posting a complaint thread all that are against the recent lasher buff please post here. I am sick of playing against vanu, and so is my outfit(Renegade Legion) We are as we speak boycotting the damn vs. Whenever I see a lasher im outta there. I have almost lost my love for the game along with many others please lets all get together and do something about this!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

This coming from the almighty Renegade Legion?

I don't believe it.

[scarpas]

YOURE DUMB.

:cool2: Y? :cool2:

say you are next time, and make it size 5 so it stands out more... just kidding...

:cheers: truce? :cheers:

[Spee]

:cool2: Y? :cool2:


Remember, Jimmy. Plasma != Jammer.

[scarpas]

please read my well timed edits that came in plz :groovy:


:angel: truce? :angel:

[Spee]

When did I declare war?


I tease because Im an ass, not because I love.

[DemiInuyoukai]

if u hate it, every organize a massive VS killing spree, or get one youself.

[Jordash01]

I'll reply to Mudflap's post (this is going to sound like some wierd disclaimer, and in a way, it is), responding to what he says, but first I want to say that I still agree that the Lasher is overpowered. Also, I am in no way against the NC, or out to get them. I happen to enjoy playing each empire fairly equally (though leaned slightly with VS favor :p ), and enjoy the people in each empire almost equally. Therefore I think of myself as relatively unbiased, compared to many who dwell in these forums...


No offense, but that's a pretty amazing way to turn a "Lasher is overpowered thread", which I might remind you that the Jackhammer had more than it's fair share of, into a "JH was mean so hold me" thread.

Too true, sorry about that (got carried away) - as I said in the post, please forgive the rant. The main reason it came out that way is because we DID have to adapt to the Jackhammer.

My main concern there is that the NC had this huge advantage, not a perfect one (though it is/was the best means of killing someone, all out), but still had an advantage over the other two empires. Now that they are no longer heading the kill-fest, and now that the Lasher has taken the lead (again), it's back to the old complain-for-the-hell-of-it-don't-listen-to-anyone-stick-to-your-first-thought-be-stubborn-till-you-get-your-way standby. I'm not saying JUST the NC are doing this; many VS (and TR) have done, and still do this sort of thing.


I am pleased that you agree that the lasher is overpowered in its current form though, the major difference between the lasher's current power and the JH's former power though is that the lasher has virtually none of the JH's weaknesses. That is my main reason for the rant.

Now, I wouldn't put it that way - the way I read that, I get the feeling you are saying the Jackhammer is suddenly just another weak worthless gun. There are still weaknesses for the Lasher (if yet to be discovered) to rival the MCG's and JH's. I don't have much else to say here, because I mostly agree with you...


The JH was short range, triple shot, switch modes, one shot, get kill. If you miss a single round, they're still alive. The lasher is medium range, spamtastic, don't need to aim, can't run away, totally outrageous damage.

"Medium range", partially. I would label it more like medium-close range, because it's about as innacurate (in my experience) at medium range as the Jackhammer is. "Spamtastic", most likely, people now get carried away with those things easy - haven't played Vanu much since the whining started (I've been experiencing the receiving end first-hand), but I have noticed that. "Don't need to aim", not true, you DO need to aim, especially at a distance. Unless you agree that you don't need to aim the Jackhammer, as many say, then you are just using an argument and a complaint that you probably heard from everyone else.


How, praytell, would you like me to adapt in order to take out a weapon user that I can't get near?

Perhaps, I should stand at the top of the backdoor and use my thumper right? Well, all the damn barney balls impacting on the wall lash and kill people who are even some distance from the door. Tactic worthless. Maybe I should get a max? The lasher is THE best HA weapon aainst MAXes. Tactic worthless. Maybe I should be a cloaker? It lashes dammit. Tactic worthless. Maybe I should surge in? LOL. Tactic worthless. Maybe I should fly a reaver in there?

Here you make it sound like the Lasher is some unbeatable, god-like weapon. Try using it yourself, and you will see that YES, it is easier to kill with, overall, but NO, it is not some insta-gib weapon like many make it out to be. The way the Lasher now lashes is, in my opinion, unfair in comparison to the other two weapons. Just the other day I was killed almost instantly by pure lash damage, at a medium range. But, I was acting like most NC currently act - that is, I was trying to engage this now medium-close range weapon with a close-range weapon, the Jackhammer - also, I was trying to dodge the lashes, not yet knowing that it was that lethal.


The lasher has no indoor weakness, at all. You can draw parallels to the JH, but for everything you say, you had the ability to adapt. Until you're on the other end of the lash, you really have no room to speak.

As I said before, I am currently playing more TR and NC than I am VS. I am on the receiving end, so therefore according to what you just said, I do have room to speak. I played TR long before the new Lasher came out, and I know its differences in power between now and then. Yes, it is easier to get killed by it than it was, but it did used to be the weakest of the weapons, but is now equal, statistics-wise, to the other two.


I know many of you are bitter about the JH, and just like to tell the NC to eat it. I've wanted to kill the damn NC surgiles as much as the TR surgiles many times, but this is a bit much.

Please, I wasn't attacking anyone, stop making it sound like I'm targeting out you and your ring of friends or whatever: I'm not, nobody is (nobody intelligent, anyways). I wasn't making a "hug me, I'm crying over what happened" post, nor was I making another "avoid the issue and bring it from the Lasher back to the Jackhammer" post. And though the weaponry involved is different, the same basic concept is the same: I was merely trying to give a perspective to the once most lethal empire - to show the New Conglomerate how the recieving end of their bite used to be.

[WritheNC]

The problem is that its just a little too good at everything.

Let me go back to the example of 6 NC's guarding the backdoor with thumpers.

If there are a couple VS maxes there, you have to bring AV, taking up space. The effective tactics everyone is saying you need to use against the lasher are:

MA
Thumper
JH/MCG

And if there are maxes? Well then you need to carry AV.

So how many weapons do you expect everyone to carry? Even if you could carry them all, it still takes a couple seconds to switch weapons.

Meanwhile, the current VS solution is to spam lasher orbs down said hallways. No weapon switching. No ap/soft ammo switching. No worrying about grief from a bad-luck bouncing thumper nade. If there is a max down there, spam the lasher at it too. Even if you can't kill the max, you just damn near killed the engi trying to repair him. No TR/NC max can effectively fire ordinance that 20m to the backdoor with the same lethality(neither could a VS max but it doesn't really have that problem).

That's the only problem. I guess after the bug fix they should upgrade the pulsar a bit so the VS do have something to do besides spam lashers at people. :)

[321]

I am sick of playing against vanu, and so is my outfit(Renegade Legion) We are as we speak boycotting the damn vs.

WOW the VS get one buff and everyone is complaining. I'm a NC and I don't find anything wrong with the new lasher I still kill lasher users a lot and I think that the lasher is pretty balanced and so is every other weapon in the game.



I have almost lost my love for the game


How could you lose your love of the game over this? And if you think that it really is that bad then don't worry everyone will whine like usally in the OF until the devs will change it, trust me it won't be the first time it happens every patch.



lets all get together and do something about this!!!!!


No thanks.

[Colonel Nikolai]

I can't wait until the MCG gets a 1200 rounds-per-minute cyclic rate and fires 20mm rounds. Ohh, you'll all be up in arms. But we shall enjoy that sweet, sweet moment in the warm glow of ub3rn3ss, reclining on your preforated blue-and-purple corpses and sipping mai tais.

[Mudflap]

Now, I wouldn't put it that way - the way I read that, I get the feeling you are saying the Jackhammer is suddenly just another weak worthless gun. There are still weaknesses for the Lasher (if yet to be discovered) to rival the MCG's and JH's. I don't have much else to say here, because I mostly agree with you...
I fear that the VS have the same advantage, or possibly a slightly larger one, than the NC ever enjoyed. I think the devs, possibly by accident, are making the same mistake twice. I haven't heard anything about a confirmed lasher bug, and ti doesn't matter if it is a bug or not. It needs to be fixed either way.

"Medium range", partially. I would label it more like medium-close range, because it's about as innacurate (in my experience) at medium range as the Jackhammer is. "Spamtastic", most likely, people now get carried away with those things easy - haven't played Vanu much since the whining started (I've been experiencing the receiving end first-hand), but I have noticed that. "Don't need to aim", not true, you DO need to aim, especially at a distance. Unless you agree that you don't need to aim the Jackhammer, as many say, then you are just using an argument and a complaint that you probably heard from everyone else.
By saying "no need to aim" I was referrnig to the lash damage. Fire down a hallway of approaching enemy troops and you will get kills, possibly even the entire contingent.

Here you make it sound like the Lasher is some unbeatable, god-like weapon. Try using it yourself, and you will see that YES, it is easier to kill with, overall, but NO, it is not some insta-gib weapon like many make it out to be. The way the Lasher now lashes is, in my opinion, unfair in comparison to the other two weapons. Just the other day I was killed almost instantly by pure lash damage, at a medium range. But, I was acting like most NC currently act - that is, I was trying to engage this now medium-close range weapon with a close-range weapon, the Jackhammer - also, I was trying to dodge the lashes, not yet knowing that it was that lethal.
It's not an unbeatable, god-like weapon, but it is the best indoor weapon by a longshot. There are many situations in which the lasher is highly advantaged. Being killed by pure lash damage is the problem. They don't need to aim, lash damage takes care of that.

As I said before, I am currently playing more TR and NC than I am VS. I am on the receiving end, so therefore according to what you just said, I do have room to speak. I played TR long before the new Lasher came out, and I know its differences in power between now and then. Yes, it is easier to get killed by it than it was, but it did used to be the weakest of the weapons, but is now equal, statistics-wise, to the other two.
I play all three empires myself, and enjoy them all. Played my VS cloaker last night and had a blast. I don't think that the lasher was one of the weakest weapons before the last patch. For hallway defence, it couldn't be beated before, and certainly not now. It does suck outdoors though....still, though not as much.

Please, I wasn't attacking anyone, stop making it sound like I'm targeting out you and your ring of friends or whatever: I'm not, nobody is (nobody intelligent, anyways). I wasn't making a "hug me, I'm crying over what happened" post, nor was I making another "avoid the issue and bring it from the Lasher back to the Jackhammer" post. And though the weaponry involved is different, the same basic concept is the same: I was merely trying to give a perspective to the once most lethal empire - to show the New Conglomerate how the recieving end of their bite used to be.
I'm not much of a JH user. My NC character that actually has HA hasn't been played in over a month, and he only had HA for a month before that. I never though the JH was much better than the sweeper, but I probably just suck with it.
I don't find the reasoning that "The JH used to be overpowered so live with it" to be very viable either. As much as I'm told that the NC have no room to gripe, I disagree and say that it is finally the NC's turn to bitch up a storm.

Again, I play all three empires. Got one of my VS to BR15 last night. I even have a VS with HA. The lasher is insane for indoor fights. It needs to be fixed.

[GreyFox]

I don't think that the lasher was one of the weakest weapons before the last patch. For hallway defence, it couldn't be beated before, and certainly not now. It does suck outdoors though....still, though not as much.
Before the patch the weapon worked exactly the same, the lasher users can only shoot for 25% longer time, and start shooting again a little earlier.
The lash within the first 5 meters don't effect that situation much at all.

[Mudflap]

Before the patch the weapon worked exactly the same, the lasher users can only shoot for 25% longer time, and start shooting again a little earlier.
The lash within the first 5 meters don't effect that situation much at all.
Apparantly someone hasn't read about the 'bugged' lash damage.

[SilverLord]

It lashes through walls and behind the user.

Damn VS, just drop it.

[JakeLogan]

My only problem is that the lash damage doesn't cause grief. but then again I remember back in beta the lash did cause grief and a good number of VS were grief locked. but besides that I had alot of fun getting BR20 last night while using the plasma thumper on the VS. :D

[SilverLord]

Just got SA back again, so much better than a DC max. Wow, how I missed SA.

[noxious]

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee... It's a good time to be VS

[Queensidecastle]

Just got SA back again, so much better than a DC max. Wow, how I missed SA

Out of pure anger and rebellion I refused to move over with the AV horde to keep my decimator and decided to find creative ways to make SA do the job. The Rocklet is a pure killing machine now. Its basically the common-pool Jackhammer (albiet small clip) that does not descriminate from MAXs, Vehicles, or troopers. It takes a long time to become proficient with and to understand when best to use it (this is not obvious like you think it is), but when you get it down its pure pwn. The merits of the Thumper speak for itself and are all just that much better with the ammo box upgrades. In my Rexo loadouts I keep both the Thumper and Rocklet in slot 2 so I can right-click between them and take on absolutely anything in the game at medium range. After you have won the innititave, you surge in with heavy assault and close the deal. People that use MA instead of SA at medium range are... well, I am just glad they dont understand the Special assault certification, because it just makes more fodder for me to enjoy

[GreyFox]

Apparantly someone hasn't read about the 'bugged' lash damage.
It has always been bugged. It's just that it has been noticed now that they removed the 5m limit.
And that bug is random, so you MIGHT save one shot.

[Gigabein]

Lash-behind bug... are you guys saying there are vanu grunts running backwards while shooting their weapons in the direction opposite of the advancing enemy in order to capitalize on this bug? Words cannot express my amazement or my sardonicism.

[TheN00b]

Words cannot express my amazement or my sardonicism.

They just did :) .

[Gigabein]

:scared: :scared: "Look out my fellow soldiers! It is those naughty Vanu capitalizing upon the lash-behind bug! OOOH! OOOH!" :scared: :scared:

[Predator21]

-edit- Deleted

nvm me :)

[Madcow]

Lash-behind bug... are you guys saying there are vanu grunts running backwards while shooting their weapons in the direction opposite of the advancing enemy in order to capitalize on this bug? Words cannot express my amazement or my sardonicism.

I got killed last night while I was knifing a lasher user. He was facing the complete opposite direction and the lash damage killed me before I could get in a second stab. You're right, that bug doesn't hurt a thing.

[Bokuden]

I got killed last night while I was knifing a lasher user. He was facing the complete opposite direction and the lash damage killed me before I could get in a second stab. You're right, that bug doesn't hurt a thing.

afaik it takes 18 orbs (rexo) to get killed just cause of the lash-dmg - so if you're to slow to kill a grunt when you're behind him in this time.......
a tip - try it with a gun and put that knife away ...

the lasher's strong atm but it seems stronger then it is - vanu's got so many new players in the last days and all of em are using the lasher.... once there was the same thing with the JH.... don't worry too much guys - there's gonne be a fix = nerf ?! soon i think.....


but i love my lasher .... saturday night-fever night-fever lalalala DISCO-INFERNO :groovy: :groovy: :groovy:

[Madcow]

afaik it takes 18 orbs (rexo) to get killed just cause of the lash-dmg - so if you're to slow to kill a grunt when you're behind him in this time.......
a tip - try it with a gun and put that knife away ...

And I happened to be in an infil suit trying not to make too much commotion behind enemy lines. It takes all of 2 stabs to kill the guy, and without him even firing at me I don't have enough time to do that? So thanks for the tip, but it's completely irrelevant.

[Wraithlord]

The lash behind bug WILL be fixed, rest assured, just pick up a repeater until then infil guy :thumbsup: if your on markhov and not TR we could arange a little weapon exchange program :)

[Queensidecastle]

Screw the repeater, it is shite now. Use the Spiker and never look back.

The reason that the Lasher is a problem is because it kills people behind corners in direct fire method. Take your 18 orbs and put 4 guys at the top of a staircase or coming down a hallway. Now you have roughly 4.5 orbs just to kill someone with splash around the corner. Now combine that with the rate of fire from the lasher and you have a problem. A very serious problem. Suppression fire is one thing, killing around corners is something completely different. Killing people around corners thus far in Planetside has been ballanced by limiting it to grenade based weapons and each suffers a huge penalty in direct fire.

This needs to be tuned back into reasonable range and it needs to be done now

[SilverLord]

Lash damage is minimal but I see where your coming from.

It will never change though.

[Queensidecastle]

Well, the reason it is more of a problem now than before is for 2 reasons.

1) The population in Planetside that likes overpowerd weapons moves like migrating birds. It is so obvious from the stats that is actually amusing. This time they flooded to VS
2) The extra 5 rounds per clip increased suppression fire dramatically.

I cant recall masses of people complaining about the lasher before saying that the clip was horrible. It also seemed that most people in the game were happy with its performance both on the recieving end and on the dishing out end. That is why this change is so frustrating for people and indeed, wierd. There is no rhym or reason to it. It just appears that the Devs just arbitrarily felt like buffing the lasher.

[Wraithlord]

Screw the repeater, it is shite now. Use the Spiker and never look back.


I dont want to pay $30 for something that I have to take an hour out of my playtime to get to the surface, and then lose it because the zerg overruns us


and the repeater is not shit I still kill just as well with it now as I did before the armor buff, it just takes 1 or 2 more shots more than what it used to be which is like .3 of a second

[Kayith]

I run up and start AMP'ing a Lasher spammer as a cloaker from the side, as I couldn't get behind him.

The lash, without actually getting hit by the ball, kills me in two seconds.

Perhaps it shouldn't lash until it's a few feet away from the firer? It would prevent such spamming.

One thing that would fix hallway disco-ball death sessions is if they made the lasher orb explode on impacting a grunt, instead of going through him and frying the fifty guys up the stairs away from him. You don't see TR chain gun rounds boreing through multiple people, and you don't see NC Jackhammer shots jumping from person to person.

The clip size, coupled with its RoF, coupled with the multiple bugs associated with it make it the overpowered beast it is. And every HA user knows it.

And you were talking about MAXs walking down the hallways, instead of REXO grunts? If a MAX can't survive for more than three seconds against two Agile Lasher spammers, he's not going to survive rushing at four of them lubing a hallway, and neither will the other four MAXs behind him who are getting raped by the bolts going through him.

[Queensidecastle]

and the repeater is not shit I still kill just as well with it now as I did before the armor buff, it just takes 1 or 2 more shots more than what it used to be which is like .3 of a second

No. It used to take 10 shots at point blank and now it takes 14. At 10 meters it takes even more and we only have a 20 round clip. Also its not .3 seconds more at point blant, its .7 and much more than that at 10m. As far as the Spiker, you can fill your locker with them and that will last you for days, but since you dont have Core Combat, then you dont even know what I am talking about. I bet if you actually had any experience with the Spiker you would change your tune

[Kayith]

Basically, AMP/Repeator for Agiles and Infiltrators, because they can run away quickly, and Knife/MeleeBooster for REXOs, because they're slow as Hell, and can't run.

AMP owns anything below REXO, and Knives own everything period.