Possible Cloaker buff

[Incompetent]

First off let me say this, I really do not like cloakers, in fact I virulently hate most of them. However I do recognize that the inventory they are given is unbelievably tiny, and incredibly hard to build an inventory around.

So here is my idea, roughly double the inventory space of the infiltration suit. HOWEVER, the more inventory space the infil uses, the more visible he is. Make it so that if the inventory is filled to the maximum size it is now (base it on the smallest boxes, which would is around 6x6 now I believe), the cloaker has almost exactly the same visibility. If the cloaker fills the entire thing is noticeably more visible, and if he keeps it mostly empty (say, just a REK and a Spiker) he is noticeably less visible. It would affect both normal and dl visibility, with a fully unloaded cloaker appearing as if he were at near maximum range and becoming undetectable at much shorter range.

This would do a couple things. Mainly, it would give cloakers much more freedom in laying out their inventory. I know that in rexo I HATE leaving any extra space open, so I can feel for the cloakers here. It would let them spread their inventory around and not waste an extra space (like the area around a grenade.) Second, it would let the sneaky ones to be a lot sneakier. Assuming that the item in the holster has no bearing on how visible the infiltrator is, a cloaker with just a REK and melee booster would be nearly impossible to find without DL (and a pain in the ass then even) and allow the sneaky bastards to be really sneaky. It would also allow more combat oriented cloakers who tend to stay with and support the infantry more leeway in loading out their inventory. They could load up and count on the grunts keeping the enemies attention while they move to flank with weapons like Spikers or Grenades.

Finally, and I�m debating whether this is really a good idea, allow cloakers AND ONLY CLOAKERS to purchase small armor upgrades, which are each the size of a regular ammo box, which add roughly 15 armor a piece. Not terribly impressive, but enough to give the cloakers at least some ability to absorb damage (and not get one hit killed by shotguns either.) Possibly have them incur a very slight speed decrease to represent the armor interfering with movement.

Questions, comments, flames?

[Spee]

Sounds good. The only thing I would add to it is a small bolded line to indicate the threshold of the previous "normal" inventory was, thus enabling people to make decisions based around how much they want to carry/how visible they want to be.

[Incompetent]

Possibly a slider somewhere (maybe on top of the inventory menu) that shows what your base visibility is? All the way right is as close to invisible as you can get, middle is the normal level it is now, hard left is extremely visible.

[Gigabein]

I like it. Customizability with checks and balances is always a good thing. A cloaker filling up this new inventory and running/gunning would light himself up like a christmas tree. Scale-able transparency would probably make the Melee Boost and Silent Run certs much more popular for all the crazy knifer types.

[LimpBIT]

Personally i think that all this crap that people are suggesting(not to say all of it is bad) is getting out of hand. Say the devs accept some of these, it would completely change the game may even ruin it. I think that some changes would be good. I would like to see more stuff and vehicles. Even more weapons. But that is a major change. I like cloakers the way they are and i think most ppl do to. I think this is more of a you only problem. No offense and sorry for the flam but that idea blows lol :groovy:

[Incompetent]

http://planetside-universe.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20007

Anyone whos not a hypocritical moron have any comments?

Edit: almost missed this gem
http://planetside-universe.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19927

[Gigabein]

Care to explain how you drew your conclusion that it would "completely change the game may even ruin it"?

[LimpBIT]

well im not necessarily just talking about this idea its just all of these ideas ppl want to put into the game might change it a little to much. All im saying is that some of these changes could be good and some could be bad. My opinion ill stick to it. You have yours-you stick to yours. Im just saying that maybe PS development should be left to the PS developers.

[LimpBIT]

and another thing how was i being hypocrytical?
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=hypocritical

[Dharkbayne]

I like cloakers the way they are and i think most ppl do to.


Hmm... Like them the way they are? How about YOU try killing a rexo with a repeater, how about YOU try getting by a spitfire/motion detector combo, how about YOU try getting into an interlink facility with a spitfire infront of every door. How about YOU try getting into a tower when everyone in the whole damn game has DL and flicks it on and off constantly. Eh? HOW ABOUT IT? Cloakers need a buff, you moron. :doh:

[Incompetent]

Personally i think that all this crap that people are suggesting(not to say all of it is bad) is getting out of hand. I was thinking maybe putting in a cert section that has special abilitys like digging treches making mines go underground or anything you guys can think of. Some stuff that would increase the gameplay and make it easier on attackers and defenders. AND BRING BACK THE FLAMETHROWER.(sadly the flame thrower didnt make it to the final game if you didnt know that). I think that would be fun. hy�poc�ri�sy ( P ) Pronunciation Key (h-pkr-s)
n. pl. hy�poc�ri�sies
The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness.
I.E. you telling everyone to stop posting stupid ideas then posting your own, surely you don't need me to spell out the association between the words hypocrisy and hypocritical.

[Jaged]

Personally i think that all this crap that people are suggesting(not to say all of it is bad) is getting out of hand. Say the devs accept some of these, it would completely change the game may even ruin it. I think that some changes would be good. I would like to see more stuff and vehicles. Even more weapons. But that is a major change. I like cloakers the way they are and i think most ppl do to. I think this is more of a you only problem. No offense and sorry for the flam but that idea blows lol :groovy:
quiet Kevin

[TheN00b]

Kevin?

[Jaged]

Thats limpbit's name. He's my friend from school.

[EarlyDawn]

well im not necessarily just talking about this idea its just all of these ideas ppl want to put into the game might change it a little to much. All im saying is that some of these changes could be good and some could be bad. My opinion ill stick to it. You have yours-you stick to yours. Im just saying that maybe PS development should be left to the PS developers.So stop making suggestions.

[SealDude]

The whole point of paying 10 bucks a month for an mmofps is to be able to influence ideas as its constantley updated. Case in point, you know the lattice system, that was thought up by a player back in beta and this game was complete crap before that.

[Wraithlord]

yeah, lets have someone who is a self professed infil-hater come up with the improvments for them :doh:


go to hell

[Veteran]

Part of the reason stealthers don't get huge buffs is because when they use Surge and don't get desperate for kills, they can be a real thorn in the side of any enemy force.

There are no easy answers to the balance issues surrounding cloakers. Your patience and respect as players are the only hope.

[Wraithlord]

Veteran said it, when played PROPERLY (ie NOT surging around with a fking uzi) they are quite powerful at disrupting an enemy force by hacking AMS, Towers, Terminals, and more. The devs dont want to make an uber-invisisble-killingmachine, and personally I dont want one.

btw I play infil 80% of the time, the other 20% is in a reaver, or running around as agile after dropping from a reaver :)

[Incompetent]

I hate the little shits who run around boomering spawn rooms and who think there purpose in the game is to be some sort of uber assassin, I squad with and consider myself friends with a few infils which i respect. Hell, one of them hates other cloakers even more then i do. The sneaky ones get my respect, but they are the minority and the ones who are getting frustrated.

But seriously, you read one line, how do you feel about the idea? Or do you refuse to even consider it because I don't like the cowards who Boomer me when i'm trying to equip in the spawn room?

[Wraithlord]

all I can really say is that the inventory space is NOT the problem from an infiltrators viewpoint

but it would be my wet dream if aces came in clips :D

I occasionally do spawn room boomer runs, but thats only after the forces invading the base have gained access too the base and it had turned to indoor fighting, if I can blow some terminals and kill some people it all helps

[Madcow]

A cloaker in the spawn room (hard as hell to get there by the way) is very effective. People spawning and not immediately running to the equipment terminals, scanning the corners of the room for movement with a supressor out? That's valuable time that they could be decimating a MAX or wiping out the squad coming in the back door. The handful of kills that cloaker might get are not why they're effective, it's impeding the progress of the defending forces in general which makes them effective. To brush that off as a lame tactic is short-sighted, and incorrect.
In a good night in my infil suit I can get more kills than I would with my grunt loadout. This is normally using nothing but a knife and ACEs. Maybe I just suck as a grunt, maybe I'm just better than average at the infil suit, maybe it's a bit of both, but it gets pretty freaking old hearing people talk about infiltrators as if they're doing the game a disservice by killing people using that suit. Obviously you've been killed by cloakers your fair share of the time, that's the only reason I can see for all that bitterness, so maybe they should be assassinating people. Just because they aren't playing it the way you would want it played doesn't make it wrong.

[Veteran]

The idea of course is brilliant.

If a cloaker can take a knife and a rek and nothing else, why should he not be more invisible than the cloaker who is clinking and rattling with superfluous gear?

A brilliant idea, as always, Inco.

[Incompetent]

People spawning and not immediately running to the equipment terminals, scanning the corners of the room for movement with a supressor out? That's valuable time that they could be decimating a MAX or wiping out the squad coming in the back door. Try to shoot a surging, nearly invisible, warping target in a room packed full of friendlies. Now, try and do it without raking in massive amounts of grief. It's and incredibly cheap way to pad your kill count. However this has absolutely no relationship to my idea, just pack the same number of ACEs and absolutely nothing has changedall I can really say is that the inventory space is NOT the problem from an infiltrators viewpoint Ah, but it doesn't address only inventory space, it addresses visibility as well. It's not so an infil can pack twice the ACEs, if anything it hurts people who would play like that, it's so Infils can make decisions based on the situation and role they've chosen. Someone who is running around with nothing but a REK looking to hack an AMS shouldn't be anywhere near as visible as someone loaded down with plasma grenades looking to hunt.Obviously you've been killed by cloakers your fair share of the time, that's the only reason I can see for all that bitterness, so maybe they should be assassinating people.I kill them far more often then they kill me, I hate the assassins not only because they fight cowardly but because at the same time, they punish the good ones that are trying to do what they really do. Half the time that i discover sneaky, infiltrating cloakers its because some moron with an AMP gave him away by mading me turn on DL. Still, I fail to see what this has to do with my idea, an infil loaded out with the same equipment as now would be completely and totally unnaffected.

However maybe I misspoke originally, I don't hate all cloakers, but i do hate the most common types that give the guys running around stealing AMSes and other things benificial to there empire a bad name.

[Madcow]

Try to shoot a surging, nearly invisible, warping target in a room packed full of friendlies. Now, try and do it without raking in massive amounts of grief. It's and incredibly cheap way to pad your kill count. However this has absolutely no relationship to my idea, just pack the same number of ACEs and absolutely nothing has changed

I do try to shoot them, regardless of the fact that I normally play infil that doesn't keep me from spawning in the same places as everybody else. It's hard to get them, but with 3-4 people looking for them all shooting supressors it doesn't take too much effort. It's a lot more difficult to actually get to the spawn room as an infil, make a surge run, survive long enough for the Boomer to appear, detonate and remain alive to try the same thing again than it is to take said infil down with a supressor. Also, keep in mind that every time somebody spawns that cloaker has a pretty stinking good chance of being visible to them. Grief points are a non-factor, if you can actually wrack up significant grief points with a supressor than there are serious issues that go well beyond cloakers.

As for your idea, I'm lukewarm on it. As for your idea that this would stop the assassin infil, I beg to differ. If I can have a completely empty inventory and be nearly invisible, just give me melee booster and I'll kill far more than I am now.

[Dharkbayne]

I use the knife and AMP only. I have never surged with an infil suit on or used a boomer. We need buffed. Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.

[Incompetent]

As for your idea that this would stop the assassin infil, I beg to differ. It won't stop them in general, it will simply punish the stupid ones and reward the intelligent ones. Also, keep in mind that every time somebody spawns that cloaker has a pretty stinking good chance of being visible to them.Knowing he is there has nothing to do with it, it's killing him.It's hard to get them, but with 3-4 people looking for them all shooting supressors it doesn't take too much effort. Look for them all you want, they've already run through the room and have gotten 2-3 kills. It's nearly impossible to hit somone when they are warping like mad because of the netcode, on top of there near invisibility, while having to check your fire to avoid tking friendlies. Still I ask, what does my opinion on this matter have to do with my suggestion?
If I can have a completely empty inventory and be nearly invisible, just give me melee booster and I'll kill far more than I am now. Good for you, thats the idea. I'm always impressed by a good knife cloaker, and if thats what someone wants to specialize in, there should be a benifit for clearing out there invo and specializing.

But seriously, why? Just saying "eh, i don't really like it" is useless. Why don't you like it, what could be improved or modified, is it just not enough, what could be added, is it just flawed, if so where and why?

[Wraithlord]

"The idea of course is brilliant.

If a cloaker can take a knife and a rek and nothing else, why should he not be more invisible than the cloaker who is clinking and rattling with superfluous gear?

A brilliant idea, as always, Inco.
"

now why the hell would a class devoted to infiltration NOT securly fasten every last bit of stuff they have so it doesnt make noise

[Veteran]

Wraithlord,

How do you secure a group of items like ACEs that weigh X kilograms while also balancing an AMP, REK and a bunch of grenades at the same time?

In real life, I have trouble carrying two grocery bags at once. Why should cloakers expect to lug a half-dozen boomers into a combat zone as free as a bird?

[Madcow]

It won't stop them in general, it will simply punish the stupid ones and reward the intelligent ones. Knowing he is there has nothing to do with it, it's killing him. Look for them all you want, they've already run through the room and have gotten 2-3 kills. It's nearly impossible to hit somone when they are warping like mad because of the netcode, on top of there near invisibility, while having to check your fire to avoid tking friendlies. Still I ask, what does my opinion on this matter have to do with my suggestion?

Well, the reason this came up is because you brought it up:

I hate the little shits who run around boomering spawn rooms and who think there purpose in the game is to be some sort of uber assassin, I squad with and consider myself friends with a few infils which i respect. Hell, one of them hates other cloakers even more then i do. The sneaky ones get my respect, but they are the minority and the ones who are getting frustrated.

What does it have to do with your suggestion? Nothing, but I am responding to something you posted. I experience very little of infils warping on me when they are using surge as the z axis really doesn't come into play (and I haven't seen many jumping surging infils). I'm just very confused that a MAX making it into the spawn room and doing as much damage as possible would be considered a legitimate tactic, but a cloaker making it to the spawn room (much harder to do, btw) and doing as much damage as possible and keeping the defenders from equipping is somehow cheap.

Good for you, thats the idea. I'm always impressed by a good knife cloaker, and if thats what someone wants to specialize in, there should be a benifit for clearing out there invo and specializing.

My normal loadout at this point is 4 ACEs, my med applicator and that's it. While I still have ACEs in my inventory I'll place a spit strategically near somebody I'm planning on knifing, then I'll go to work on them. Either they die in 2 shots, or they make a nice move to get away from the second stab and the spit gets them. Knife kills are way too much fun not to do, but if you're telling me I'd be less visible and more immune to DL I'm telling you I'd be doing much more 'assassinating' than what you normally see.

But seriously, why? Just saying "eh, i don't really like it" is useless. Why don't you like it, what could be improved or modified, is it just not enough, what could be added, is it just flawed, if so where and why?

The why is because of the difficulty in balancing the whole thing. You can't make me invisible because I choose to have no inventory, so how 'slightly' visible am I? The idea seems to be to keep the cloakers, who already have the most limited inventory space in the game, with smaller inventories than they already have. Choosing to become more visible in the game just seems overboard. Everybody and their brother already has an implant dedicated to killing you, and now you'll choose to make your movement a bit more obvious? It just seems an extreme effort to keep ACEs out of the hands of infils, which is certainly not something currently threatening the balance of the game.

[Madcow]

Wraithlord,

How do you secure a group of items like ACEs that weigh X kilograms while also balancing an AMP, REK and a bunch of grenades at the same time?

In real life, I have trouble carrying two grocery bags at once. Why should cloakers expect to lug a half-dozen boomers into a combat zone as free as a bird?

Guns and REKs would most likely have holsters that would secure them. ACEs could be secured to the infil suit much like grenades are secured to army uniforms.

Are you actually talking about the realism of the inventory space in the infiltrator suit when any other grunt can carry dozens of anti vehicular weapons, hundreds of rounds of ammunition as well as a score of other items? Could you please go ahead and post me a link to your post where you're asking for more restrictions on Standard/Agile/Rexo inventory slots?

A half dozen boomers. Puhleeze.

[Gigabein]

(Don't focus so much on rationalizing why it would or would not work, guys. It's easy to create a back-story for the idea. Focus on weighing the pro's and con's.)

The other interesting thing about this idea, is that the more ammo and ACE's you use up, the more invisible you'd become. You could start out as a hunter-stalker and maintain your usefulness as a ninja-hacker once you're out of gear.

[Incompetent]

Knife kills are way too much fun not to do, but if you're telling me I'd be less visible and more immune to DL I'm telling you I'd be doing much more 'assassinating' than what you normally see. Like i said, i have nothing against knife infils, it's how i always thought should kill in the first place. Skill with a knife is far rarer then the ability to shove an AMP up someones ass.I'm just very confused that a MAX making it into the spawn room and doing as much damage as possible would be considered a legitimate tactic, but a cloaker making it to the spawn room (much harder to do, btw) and doing as much damage as possible and keeping the defenders from equipping is somehow cheap. A few different reasons, a max that manages to get though a contested base must be some sort of god considering that everyone and there brother has AV and they are a pitifully easy target without proper infantry support, a max doesn't warp out of my reticle, MAXes are used solely to kill, maybe a few others i can't think of.Everybody and their brother already has an implant dedicated to killing you, and now you'll choose to make your movement a bit more obvious? It just seems an extreme effort to keep ACEs out of the hands of infils, which is certainly not something currently threatening the balance of the game.Eh, I never really looked at it as an effort to force infils to play light, but, now that you finally come out and say it, I can see where your coming from. Perhaps bump the current level of visibility to about 3/4s of the way of a full inventory instead of half?

I just thought of it as a way to give cloakers more options in how they wanted to play, if your just going to hack enemy AMSes or what not, no reason to carry around a full inventory, and they might as well provide a benifit for not doing so. And if you want to carry some extra gear, feel free, it will make you a bit more vulnerable but chances are you'll be using it anyway so it won't weigh you down for too long.

Edit: More stuff = more surface area to cloak w/ same energy = less effective cloaking