GO meet the attack or Turtle?

[MrVicchio]

Author Topic: What Incentive is There for Defenders to Leave Facilities?
CharlieDickens
Station Member
Registered: Nov 2002 posted 01-28-2003 02:59 PM user search report post
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I'm trying to get my mind around a gameplay aspect of PS that doesn't make sense to me. Bear with me here and I'll see if I can explain it.
Why would defenders ever leave the safety of their facilities and expose themselves to air/ground vehicle fire? Why wouldn't they "horde" inside facilities to stop hackers, and won't they stay in the extra cover and safety of facilities when moving outside exposes them to danger?

I guess what I'm saying here is I don't really see much potential in PS for vehicle vs vehicle combat because what incentive would there be for a defender to go out in a vehicle? You're leaving your base exposed and you are so much more vulnerable as a target.

This in turn makes you wonder what vehicles are going to do in the game other than transport players to the fight.

Thoughts?


Wadda you think? Heres What SJ thinks.

SmokeJumperPS
Station Admin
Registered: Sep 2001 posted 01-28-2003 03:28 PM user search report post
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Respectfully...I hope you try it when I'm the attacking Commander.
If you let me get into your courtyard without stopping me, I will hack open your doors and lob tank shells into the front rooms. When you've been driven/killed out of those rooms, I'll begin a systematic assault, starting by sending in infantry-supported MAXs through one entrance, stealth hackers through another, and a paratroop attack through the roof. Eventually, I'll blow your gen or hack your facility and you'll have nowhere to respawn.

On the other hand, I could just ignore your base entirely and go capture everything around you before coming back to take you apart. That way, by the time I blow your spawn tubes, you won't even be able to respawn on the same continent.

This is all hypothetical actually. But there are a LOT of ways to crack a base in this game. Defenders will need to be very flexible and a pure "turtle" defense probably won't be very successful against competent commanders.

http://boards.station.sony.com/ubb/planetside/Forum2/HTML/001965.html

[Navaron]

"and a paratroop attack through the roof"



HFS!!!!

I've been asking about that for months. I've wanted to do that from the very beginning!!!! I love SJ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ABRAXAAS]

heres the answer to why people will leave the base .............EHEM!.......IT WILL BE BORING AND YOU"LL NEVER GET TO SEE ANYTHING IN THE GAME !!..........thankyou :rock:

[�io]

Originally posted by ABRAXAAS
heres the answer to why people will leave the base .............EHEM!.......IT WILL BE BORING AND YOU"LL NEVER GET TO SEE ANYTHING IN THE GAME !!..........thankyou :rock:

:stupid:

[Airlift]

Half the reason I want to get in the beta is to get pwned by the developers. Ok, not half, but that is a helluva edge come release.

[FraBaktos]

I think I would use the vehicles for defending... if you are all packed into the base then you can't use the vehicles which have more firepower and defense than infantry. The vehicles could be used for a more effective defense.:p

[Tobias]

Roving gunship squads would help defense.

[Navaron]

I remember someone more important than me as far as this game goes, saying that there would definately be a set of squads/platoon of guys who's whole job is to defend bases and respond when they are hacked. THat is awesome. I really hope the teamwork aspect of this game plays out.

[txMaddog]

What SJ said. :)

If you 'Turtle' you give the attacker the initative, mobility and a safe haven. You also lose situational awareness and mobility (the ability to respond).

My idea for Defense would be a layered defense with a mobile reserve to plug breeches and counter-attack plus an AMS hunter/killer component.

[FraBaktos]

If you all packed inside the base, it would give them a chance to call in additional forces with no opposition, AND they could set up AMS's and be able to keep respawning. There is NO way the person inside could succeed. They could hold out for awhile but could never eliminate the opposition

[Airlift]

If I was putting together a defense for a base, I would probably leave two maxes with darklight vision to patrol the interior and everyone else outside watching the horizon. But that sounds boring. What I would do instead is put a bunch of people in a Galaxy and fly to a base that has just been hacked away. You get CEP for taking the base back, the only standing around is during staging at the pickup zone, and you can defend a whole group of bases. You probably don't get much reward for patrolling the interior of objective #317.

[BLuE_ZeRO]

I want to play SJ and force him to use the god mode command. You know he has one.

[PanzerJudge]

To all you people,

I would set up a Advanced Mobile Station aka AMS right outside of my most important facilities. I would also have a about 2 to 3 squads of Basilisk and Wraiths doing routine patrols of my island. When I spot those SOB's trying to attack or the SOB's on route to attack I would fly a squadrin of Reavers to rip the bejesus out of those poor fools who came on my island. If that was not doing the trick than I would follow up with oh about 4 Galaxys each loaded with a mixed group of heavy armour infantry, anti-tank infantry and it would also drop off four Lightnings (light 75mm tanks). Which with air support should be able to reapel most attacks or atleast weaken them to a point were they would become completly inefective. As far as the base goes I would MAX suits inside equipt with anit-personel, I would have a few MAX suits outside equipt with both anti-vehicle and anti-air. I would also have maybe 1 Vangaurd tank sitting outside with the driver not to far away or I would have a few Lightnings. So pretty much the sucka fool who attepts to meander his dumbass into my territory will be in a world of hurt, lets just say the comander wouldn't be getting very good reviews.

:D -The Judge :sniper:

Freedom, Liberty, and life without oppresion forever!!!!

[Rough Rider Forever]

NC Forever. "May the other two rest in pieces."

[Navaron]

Me likey

[PanzerJudge]

Hey if you NC and you need an outfit, which it looks like you don't, or if you know someone loking for one then send them to this forum page,

http://boards.station.sony.com/ubb/planetside-newconglomerate/cgi-bin/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=Roll-call&number=2&DaysPrune=20&LastLogin=

Its the NC forum at Planetside.com tell them to go to the topic about the Rough Riders outfit, me and RRComander are the leaders and he is just as good of a tactician as I am so yeah. Just send anyone intrested in NC outfits there we will be recruiting.

:D -The Judge :sniper:


Freedom, Liberty, and life without oppresion forever!!!!

[Rough Rider Forever]

NC Forever. "May the other two rest in pieces."

[Zanzibar]

copy paste into recruiting.
lol good ad. i almost wanna leave vanu



not

[Hellsfire123]

People who come up with strats that require stupid amounts of people under their command are morons. Lets be serious, you will prob never have enough people under your command for 4 groups of fighters, dropships, and then 75 marines. If you tactics take more then 20 people to accomplish something you need to rethink everything.

Your strat rethought:

4 misquitos patrol, anything that finds ememy units reports back to base and follows at a safe distance, other misquitoes head back to base. these pilots grab dropship 1 pilot, 2 gunners. 2 max and 6 marines climb in. Leaving 6 at your base, manning turrets if they are not on autofire. Id start with a flank, max and 3 marines on either side of enemy group with the sole intention of pouring fire in. Drop ship picks up those introuble and shuttles them back after ammo expended or enemy adapts. 6 marines now head on either wraiths or ATVs on the mission to annoy your enemy into rushing towards the base instead of taking the time to set up. As the enemy comes into range open up with wall turrets, and any qualified snipers that happen to be in base(not unqualifed, they can be better used as grunts). To finish off, the 4 pilots can now jump into gunships (not sure on how many these require so lets just say 2 gunships) and continue to harrass the enemy from the air. Bear in mind any casualties should respawn in minutes, and very little defense happens from inside the base.

Of course this has its flaws, heavily armored units (Tanks, max's) wont be bothered by flanking assualts and buggys. AMS's would need to be located, and some of the units dubbed marines would need to be medics/engineers but you get the basic idea. And note, this is with 20 people. I challenge a better defense with only 20 people.

[Crimson Sun]

I think that the 20 person one is a good idea, but rather than having mosquitos, which I'm sure will make noise and will be very visible esp. in day, I would have four of the wraiths with stealth people in it who also have that silent running implant (if you have a stealth cert and you are in a wraith, the wraith is invisi), that way if they see someone, they are invisible, and they can run back to their base if it is close and sound the alarm, or have the other three stealth people take potshots at them from afar, while you return to base with your vehicle. Or if it is a small attack force approaching just ambush them, no need to raise alarm. :vsrocks:

[Airlift]

People who come up with strats that require stupid amounts of people under their command are morons. Lets be serious, you will prob never have enough people under your command for 4 groups of fighters, dropships, and then 75 marines.

I suspect that when the game comes out, Hellsfire123 is going to eat those words.

If you can easily amass 60 players in everquest to do a shiatty 6 hour raid on some placeholder spawn as part of the endgame, there is no reason you can't put together a similarly-sized group to break a continental lock. Getting 100 people to sit around for defense is probably not going to happen, but when you get a massive attack together, there will probably be a massive counterattack coming shortly after.

[Lexington_Steele]

When you have large groups of people then you just need to pass out basic objective for plattoons. The platoon leader pass out basic objective for their squads to achieve the platoon objective, and you let the squad commanders determine how they are going to complete their mini objectives.

The key here is to not have one person try to micro manage 90 people.

You might have one platoon in charge of coving the inside of the base (guarding the entrances). The platoon commander might want to assign one squad to cover two entrances, another squad to cover two entrances and one squad to float thoughout the base assisting whichever of the two squads needs help and looking for infultrators.

Now the individual squad commanders might want to have all maxes guarding the doors, or they might want engineers mining the doors, or something entirely different.

The point is just because you have a ton of people, does not mean it has to get overly complicated. The platoon commanders just need to be able to chat with other platoon commanders (maybe 2 people), give very general orders to the two other squad commanders (only 2 people), and manage their own squad.

They don't need to be communicating with 90 people. They just have to be able to communicate with 4 more people than a normal squad leader.

[Mold]

I would set up a Advanced Mobile Station aka AMS right outside of my most important facilities.

i like that idea...would be a good way to save your base asap if someone sneaks in and hacks it while noones lookin

[Duritz]

Lex, that is exactly what I've been thinking of doing. I'm still considering starting an outfit around that idea, where basically we use the random people around and simply attempt to organize a large force. Even if they are severe noobs, they will help in some way. I mean, you CAN just overrun the base.

[SpartonX]

i think that defense will mostly come from people that are just comming into the game and they see that base XXX is being attacted, so they go where the action is. However, i dunno, i might try to organize a close quarters NC squad for attack/defense indoors in bases, thats if there arn't more commanders than there are grunts, wich i'm worried about, but it'll even out. Generally, it's hard to tell untill we can actaully play the game.

[Lexington_Steele]

You know, once people have maxed out their characters, their interest in defense will increase. This will make offense a bit tougher.

[IDgaf]

Lex is correct.

From my experience in a bf1942 tourney, the people who design strats try and keep away from man-management as much as possible.

You define an objective. After that ingame management and micro-managing resource allocation is done by Captains ingame.

Also, we tend to do an 'ideal' situation strat, then have variations on that assuming we're undermanned and only have enough men to hold certain points/attempt certain things.

If I'd have made one amendment to smoke jumper's post, it'd have been trying to send infiltrators into the same door that friendly Maxs were trying to breach.

IDgaf

[Navaron]

"thats if there arn't more commanders than there are grunts, wich i'm worried about, but it'll even out."

there will be two types of commanders.

Commanders with dedicated, active followers, who will obey orders - most likely in a clan or in a group of people who know each other.

Commanders who want to command. There's gonna be alot of people out there who just want to be commanders for no reason than to order people around, that doesn't even work in real life. These guys won't get far.

"i might try to organize a close quarters NC squad for attack/defense indoors in bases"

Spartan, how many clan names do you actually remember? 5? 10? If I were you, I would try and join up with another clan, and do a good job for em, and there's a good chance you could become a Sgt and have your own squad. Otherwise, you'll most likely get lost in the mix, no offense intended of course. Hell, how many clans are in the ODB now? I remember when there were 8.

My 2 cent

[Airlift]

I strongly disagree with your second point, Nav.

First, I'm fairly certain that there will be more than enough unaffiliated players in the game to muster squads on the spot. While there are many advantages to being in a good Outfit, it would be better to be unattached than to be a poor outfit, or one that just isn't on your playing schedule. Nevermind that most players in outfits will have at least 1 unaffiliated character for when they don't feel like going with the group.

Second, the outfits already in the database have no distinct advantage over the ones that haven't been put together, because the game isn't here. Aside from a little bit of publicity among the pre-game community, there is nothing to gain from announcing early. For all we know, half the outfits in the database could be defunct before release. Mine has already changed its name once and we still don't know when beta will roll.

Even 6 months into the game, there will still be new outfits being put together, and the good ones will not be lost in the mix. Neither will the best Lone Wolf players.

What I will say is that if you are trying to organize an outfit on your own, you've got a lot of work on your hands. You'll have a lot more success recruiting if you have a good web site, a solid theme, and something to distinguish you from the glut of other outfit leaders.

[Navaron]

"Second, the outfits already in the database have no distinct advantage over the ones that haven't been put together, because the game isn't here."

Obviously, what I meant to say, and didn't, was that there are a litany of clans out there, who people just don't want to join, like you said because they'll just bogg out and die. What I meant, was for him to possibly look at joining a clan that has been around a while, possibly in other games. That's a gaurenteed thing, unlike just starting from scratch which is 50/50.

I agree with your points airlift, I hope you know what I meant, I however, lost myself.

[SpartonX]

thats what i was planning on doing, i have friends who have been playing cs for a long time, were looking for a good outfit for our squad to jion, if thats what u mean for me to do

[Airlift]

Ahh, I get it now. That is true, a group that has been tested and held together through multiple games is going to be a more consistently reliable choice. I wouldn't want to discourage anyone from joining any of them. The good thing is that when the game releases, there will be more people than every Outfit in the db could hold.

[Cao_Cao]

Duh
:rolleyes:
Duh
:rolleyes:
Duh
:rolleyes:
Duh

(Omnistar)