State Of The Union Baby!!!!!!!!!!

[Navaron]

SO FAR, DAMN GOOD.

[Tobias]

Unless you already saw it. It gets good at the end, like sex, but I wont spoil it.

[Sandtaco]

Good? :huh: It's been quite crappy, and he's beating around the bush way too much... Hitlerism? The fuck is that? :rolleyes:

[Nohimn]

I missed it playing CS

[Revolution]

Why dont he just come out and say "Hey! I am going in and fucking up Iraq!" NUKE IRAQ NUKE IRAQ!!!

[Nohimn]

US needs to nuke Iraq. War creates jobs and helps the economy. I'm all for war, but he should really just say it, not go on about how he's "a more dangerous threat than ever".





#301

[Navaron]

These are just my notes:

Family of four taxes go down 1000 bucks - Good

I can invest my SS money how I want - great

Family income growth based Federal Spending budget - AWESOME

Medical reform - good

Possible prescription drug plan - bad

Excessive litigation mitigation - good "No one has ever been healed by a frivolous lawsuit" - excellent quote

Energy - From the damn U.S. of A. Cleaner everything +++
1.2 billion in hydrogen research auto funding - ehh, I think he's taking away the Dems issues

Compasion based program federal assistance - great

Citizen service act - great great great - I thought this was dead

Freedom Corp - great, nice to see this coming back up, not forgotten 450 million dollar mentor program is great - I was a mentor, I suggest you all consider it. It is very rewarding. I'm going to look into joining the freedom corp, if you are interested pm me

druggie program - ehh

Partial birth abortion ban?/ human cloning - not a question at all, moral decision

Seeking Israeli/palastine peace - uggh, just support Israel, let them solve it.

AIDS- where the hell is cancer research and funding? There is only a 10 million dollar funding gap between aids research and cancer - yet almost 88 times more people have cancer. I don't get this.

AIDS African mercy plan - great

Every day Bush orders action or is notified of enemy plans and action against terrorism. Al Queda - dead, dead, dead, captured, dead, dead, captured, captured - over 3,000 terrorists have been arrested.

"Many others have met a different fate, put it this way, they're no longer a threat to the US and it's allies" HAHA - that's the kind of president I wanted for years and love.

BALISTIC MISSILE DEFENSE - ABOUT FUCKIN TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Project Bio Shield -vaccines, ebola, plague vaccines etc. - Just smart

Another WW2 reference. Hitlerism. Defeated.....by the Might of the USA. It's up to us - - sounds like Churchill.

"The course of this nation does not depend on the decisions of others" - - bout time we sounded like a superpower

oo Iran. I didn't see that coming. So we support Iranian Freedom Fighters? I wonder how much...

Korea - N. Korea was decieving the world... "America and the World will not be blackmailed" ie - we have much bigger nukes..
We're working with China?

It's up to Iraq to show the world, not the inspectors find them.
25,000 liters of Anthrax unaccounted for. Scary I was in DC during the Senate strikes.
Botchulum - that's scary.
500 tons of Sarin, Mustard and VX - vx is what the Russians used in the theatre strike.
Remaining 29984 missiles unnaccounted for - Great
Lookin to build nuke - we knew that.
Not Disarming, Decieving - You watch, this will be the next Axis of evil quote
This part of the speech is just like Hans Blitz speech to the UN

"Since when have terrorist announced their intentions" - Great finally some common sense on the airwaves

"IF this is not evil, then evil has no meaning"

"Your enemy is not surrounding your country, your enemy is ruling your country - and the day he and his regime are removed from power will be the day of your liberation"

Both great qoutes, spoken like a true, moral superpower.

"No Victory is free from sorrow" - he knows. Here's proof he's not running headlong into war.

"This call of history, has come to the right country" - that makes me feel proud to be an American.


Observations:

Daschle looked like a corpse.
T. Kennedy - the swimmer- looks like he's lost weight.
Does John Kerrey have eyes?
Tom Ridge looks like he's melting
Colin Powell looks much more regal than military.
Gen. John Myers is awesome

[Nohimn]

and nothing for the druggies..... if only they had some sort of druggie program...:rolleyes:

[Navaron]

What did I tell you, they are already quoting that He's not disarming, he's deceiving.

[RabidPlatypus]

Hydrogen cars vroom vroooooooom

[Nohimn]

soon, we'll be hearing about restocking rather than disarming.... we're going to war...

[Doobz]

i watched the last 2 minutes of it

[MrVicchio]

That was a fucking sweet SPEECH.

Here comes the Dems response... I am gonna puke... maybe...

[Nohimn]

I watched none, I only read Naveron's summary.... what ever happened to that sheep, nav?

[Navaron]

Is it just me or is it Ironic that the Dems picked a guy from China (Communist) to do their rebuttle?

[mistled]

I almost thought Kennedy was asleep once when it showed him. I'm going to assume that he was looking down and writing something.

[Navaron]

You can't tell, his chins come up to his eyelids.

Look at this shit, the dems are using pre sept and post sept 11 economy stats. How heartless and deceiving is that. God, they'll do anything. That's just repulsive.

[Nohimn]

shouldn't there be more focus on domestic problems they ask? they are! War=jobs=better economy

stupid dems

[Navaron]

The Dems are screwed, Homeland sec, war, and education are all Bush's biyatches, these guys don't have an issue. This guy is abrassive. hahah here comes the I can't afford food and medicine. Boo hoo. What a load of shit.

Umm, Americans are in favor of privatization of Medicare - these guys are out of touch.

Reduce dependence on oil, promote alternitive methods - hahaha this speech was written b4 Bush's speech, 1.2 billion dollars anyone?????

They are playing the minority card with this guy, immigrant stories, no english stories - they're going after the mexican vote. Traditionally mexicans are Republicans. These guys are screwed.

[Hamma]

same ol' bs

Republicans Love it, Democrats hate it, the party in control does whatever they want. The world continues to turn.

[Nohimn]

NO IT DOESN'T!! THE EARTH IS FLAT!!!! AND IT IS IMMOVABLE!!!

[Navaron]

Where's the love hamma? You chimed in on a political thread earlier, why not on the most important speech all year???

[MrVicchio]

Ahh Hamma.... to live free fromt he joys of Political Inisght... Must be... I couldn't do it... I gotta have my political fix like most people need coffee in teh Morning.

[Nohimn]

I don't care what happens around me.... I live under a rock...

[Hamma]

I did just chime in, whoever the party in control is does whatever they want, regardless of what the people think. State of the union is but a formality.

Although I do agree on Iraq. Time for Saddam to visit the retirment palace :D

[Nohimn]

WE ARE GOING TO WAR!!
:sniper: :father: :ncrocks: :huh:

[Navaron]

I can't see why anyone would desire war, even Bush wants to avoid it. Death is bad. Pretty simple. The cause is right, but I say we just assasinate everyone we need dead. Tactical nukes are the way to go.

[Nohimn]

I don't want war... but it's the only choice we have right now. It's the best opportunity to boost our economy after 9/11. and at the same time, we destroy a major source of terrorist funding

[Navaron]

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for this war, but I hear alot of ignorant people spouting off stuff like - let's just nuke them all, kill em all. Shit like that pisses me off. That's not the country we are. I actually want us to do this, because I know that we will do it right, and efficiently.

[Yuyi]

Great speech. I sware i wanted to slap the shit out of nancy and hillary. There depressed look of "damn i hate being here" is just pitiful. Especially when nancy was laughing. Overall im waiting for Febuary 5th.

[Wreck]

Originally posted by RabidPlatypus
Hydrogen cars vroom vroooooooom


nooooo!!! that means hes gonna come for canada next! he wants our water!!! and he doesnt like us cause we're decriminalizing mary-jane!!! Canada is next boys and girls....

His next speech is gonna be about Canada Australia and Mexico - The Axis of Semi-Evil but Secretly Has Bad Thoughts about the US

[Lexington_Steele]

It didn't seem to be much of a "State of the Union" address. It was more of a heres why we will go to war speech (not that I am against a war).

He did his very best to avoid talking about the failing economy.

Did he even mention anything that was going well with the country except war on terrorism?

All he did was mention very general plans while trying to be as uncontravercial as possible.

I was dissapointed that he specifically mentioned reducing environmental regulations.

[Navaron]

What?? He spent the whole first half of the speech talking about all the ways he was trying to stimulate the economy. He then went on to talk about how much money they were shelling out to create all kinds of newer safer and better enviroments and enviromental stuff. What state of the union did you watch?

He certainly wasn't being uncontreversial, he talked about banning pb abortions and cloning among other things like homeland drilling.

[MrVicchio]

Nav, You are responding to a Leftist Zombie that heard what he wanted to hear, not what was said. Thats obvious from his response. In the three different places I have checked the responses to Bushes Speech, almost invariably there are those that said what Lex Said/.. Bush just drummed up for war and ignore domestic issues...

Whatever.

[mistled]

Originally posted by Yuyi
Great speech. I sware i wanted to slap the shit out of nancy and hillary. There depressed look of "damn i hate being here" is just pitiful. Especially when nancy was laughing. Overall im waiting for Febuary 5th. Hell yeah. Haha... did you see when nancy was smiling while shaking her head no the whole time. Or is that what you were talking about when she was laughing?? Either way, she's a freak of nature. She's too far left for even the democrats I know.

[chaos1428]

Sign me up for a hydrogen car, man. I've been waiting for those for a long time. Just really suprises me though. You start trying to get the country off gas powered cars, oil companies will falter like nothing. I just don't see Bush willingly taking a dent in his pocket book. If he does, well hell, more power to him. I suppose it all depends on if his oil stock is in foreign or domestic oil.

[Lexington_Steele]

If you recall they were proposed initiatives that had not been passed or taken effect, not what he had been doing the past year.

Bush specifically avoided the adressing the state of the union.

Do you really want me to quote the actual things he said he has done. It is about 2 lines of text and doesn't say anything positive about how America is doing under bush.

I would like for you to find for me quotes where he is can say something positive about the state of the America besides war on terrorism.

As far as contravercial, I think a good portion of pro-choicers are aginast partial birth abortions. I don't see banning cloning as that contravercial.

[Lexington_Steele]

Originally posted by MrVicchio
Nav, You are responding to a Leftist Zombie that heard what he wnated to hear, not what was said. Thats obvious from his repsonse. Int eh three different places I have checkeed the responses to Bushes Speech, almsot invaribaley there are those that said what Lex Said/.. Bush jsut drummed up for war and ignore domestic issues...

Whatever.
And you are not predispositioned to being pro-bush, Mr I have Bush's pic as my avatar Vicchio? ;)

[Navaron]

I don't get where this Bush wants oil so he gets rich thing comes from. He doesn't own oil companies or their stocks.

"If you recall they were proposed initiatives that had not been passed or taken effect, not what he had been doing the past year."

He proposed a lot of that stuff last year, and all those "Unified"dems just held it up and held it up.


"Do you really want me to quote the actual things he said he has done. It is about 2 lines of text and doesn't say anything positive about how America is doing under bush."

Please do.

"I would like for you to find for me quotes where he is can say something positive about the state of the America besides war on terrorism."

In every single one of his propositions he talked about how this was doing good, and his plan would make it better.

[chaos1428]

Don;t get me wrong, I thought it was a great speech. But I was under the impression that most of the Bush family were big time oil tycoons. If not, then I stand corrected.

[Lexington_Steele]

Originally posted by {BOHICA}Navaron
"Do you really want me to quote the actual things he said he has done. It is about 2 lines of text and doesn't say anything positive about how America is doing under bush."

Please do.
Here we go:

"To protect our country, we reorganized our government and created the Department of Homeland Security, which is mobilizing against the threats of a new era.

To bring our economy out of recession, we delivered the largest tax relief in a generation.

To insist on integrity in American business, we passed tough reforms, and we are holding corporate criminals to account. "

That is it. That is the end of what he has done for the country in the last year. Wonderful work bush, we know how much harder you are on corperate criminals than you were a year ago. That is definately one of Bush's finer points.

As far as how is the country country changed in the last year Bush did put up one fact. He did admit to the fact that unemployment has gone up in the last year.

You say that he proposed all kinds of stuff but democrats shot it all down. You can't put all the blame on democrats for his inability to get anything done. We have had a Republican house for many years and now we have a republican senate.

Nav give me a specific example where he is saying something about the US and how it is better than it was a year ago besides war on terrorism.

[OneManArmy]

All in all I thought it was a pretty good speech. Although he did not cover a topic I had wanted to hear about. I was really kinda hoping he would discuss bombing france....:D

[Airlift]

George W Bush was a director and paid consultant for Harken Energy Corporation. They're not in oil, unless you count the way they make money.

Dick Cheney was all over Halliburton, a Gibsonesque oil/defense conglomerate.

[archaic1128]

Qoute,
I]"thatis it.That is the end of what he has done for the country in the last year. Wonderfull work bush......[/I]


Lexington,
Please take a step back and look at the main issue. The main issue of this country is 9-11, period. Blaming Mr. Bush on not getting anything done is ridiculous. You are essentially putting all of the after effects of 9-11 on Bush's lap. Mr. Bush has faced more serious issues in his short presidency than most double term presidents. Let's see: Iraq, N. Korea, Numerous Corporate scandals, Afghanistan, 9-11 and all of its aftermaths(i.e. slumping economy etc.) and i'm sure theres a few more not popping into my head.

Now lets take a look at the last president, Mr. BJ-Clinton. What did he accomplish in 8 yrs? Besides trading top secret info to the chinese, lying to everyone in the nation about monica, fiddling around w/ al-Quida and Afghanistan, pardoning his fraudulant business partner, need i go on?

The state of the union address was indeed about war. That IS the state of our union - WAR. Hussein should've been dealt w/ during Desert Storm ,at the very least in 98' by Mr. BJ-Clinton when the inspectors got tossed, but Mr. BJ decided to throw it on someone elses lap (i.e. next pres.) Mr. BJ should've also dealt w/ Al-Quaida and Afghanistan, then maybe 9-11 would'nt of occurred. So if your looking to place blame on someone for the state of our union, blame Mr. BJ, because all of this fell into Bush's lap.

[Lexington_Steele]

Just so you know, 9/11 wasn't last year so it would have been covered in last years State of the Union Address. I don't see 9/11 as the main issue either.

And by listing all of the wonderful things that have happened to this country under the Bush Administration, you have demonstrated that he doesn't have much positive things to talk about.

So what are your complaints against Clinton? He lied about Monica Lewinsky?

Clinton did not give top secret info to the Chinese. It was Reagan that suplied Osama and the Taliban with weapons. And it seemed to me that Clinton was making headway in diffusing the north Korea situation.

Blaming 9/11 on Clinton is ridiculous.

As far as the corperate scandals, Bush's administration knew about the financial status of Enron months before they publicly reported their bankruptcy. Bush was the person who was in the best position to stop Enron from happening. In fact Bush has engaged in his own insider trading.

So your big problem with Clinton is he got a BJ? God forbid that every male here gets an extra BJ.

[Revolution]

I dont know what speech you heard but this is what I saw:
http://www.jerrypippin.com/Bush%20to%20Sadam.jpg


LOL sorry Mr.V just a spoof. ALL HAIL BUSH, ALL HAIL BUSH, ALL HAIL BUSH! :D

[Zatrais]

I like Bush... he does something more than talk.

All told, more than 3,000 suspected terrorists have been arrested in many countries. Many others have met a different fate. Let's put it this way -- they are no longer a problem to the United States and our friends and allies

hehehehe best part in the speech

[KoldFusion]

Lex,
The issue is not wether he got a BJ or not.... it is about lying to the very people he is supposed to lead.... bottom line. He is a very immoral man for cheating on his wife and lying to us all. He also did give the chinese secrets... How do you think their missile technology jumped 50 years... also the chinese did not give him millions of dollars for campaign finance out of the goodness of their heart. Headway against N. Korea? Wow! They signed a paper and did the opposite anyway... they probably gave him money as well.
9-11 is the issue.... It may have happened prior to his other state of the union but he has had to deal with the fall out. Also the econmy began to decline at the end of Clintons term.
We could sit here and split hairs all day.

As far as war creating jobs and helping the economy... that is true to a certain degree..... Some jobs will be created.. yes. However, our economy is not set up the way it used to be. Many corporations of taken their operations over seas and employ foriegners to save themselves money and help their bottom line. IN WW2 we still made a great deal of things on our own. Now we import alot (not that we didn't before). These are some of the problems of a global economy.

There are too many issues here for me to voive my opinion on them all. Suffice to say... Go get 'em George!!!!!

[MrVicchio]

Originally posted by Lexington_Steele
Just so you know, 9/11 wasn't last year so it would have been covered in last years State of the Union Address. I don't see 9/11 as the main issue either.

What.. did you watch the WTC fall and say "Hmph, sucs to be them, glad I wasnt there. Honey, wanna play some tennis later?"

Originally posted by Lexington_Steele
And by listing all of the wonderful things that have happened to this country under the Bush Administration, you have demonstrated that he doesn't have much positive things to talk about.

The State of the Union isn't always a Rosy Picture thing guy, thats not the point. The point of it is to lay out where we are, and where we are going, not for the President to blow his own horn....

Originally posted by Lexington_Steele
So what are your complaints against Clinton? He lied about Monica Lewinsky?


So your big problem with Clinton is he got a BJ? God forbid that every male here gets an extra BJ.

The President is NOT SUPPOSED TO LIE TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE NOR LIE UNDER OATH!. And don't give me that Private Life BS line either. Thats a load of horse manure.

BTW I hav ebeen married for 7 years, and I have never gotten an extra BJ. See, when I said "I do" Thats a commitment for life, not just when its convienent. Are you married? I'd love to hear your wifes reaction to that line..

Originally posted by Lexington_Steele
Clinton did not give top secret info to the Chinese. It was Reagan that suplied Osama and the Taliban with weapons. And it seemed to me that Clinton was making headway in diffusing the north Korea situation.

Blaming 9/11 on Clinton is ridiculous.

As far as the corperate scandals, Bush's administration knew about the financial status of Enron months before they publicly reported their bankruptcy. Bush was the person who was in the best position to stop Enron from happening. In fact Bush has engaged in his own insider trading.

Clinton was offered Osama Bin Laden by the Sudanese, they said "Here, we will arrest hima nd turn him over to you." Clinton didn't think Osama was a threat.. Way to go Bill!
Reagan was helping FREEDOM FIGHTERS by giving them some logistic support in thier war against the USSR... mucht he same way the USSR supplied the N.Vietnamese... Thats just how the world works.. :rolleyes:

Yeah, Clinton really hooked up that N.Korean Situation.. see how well he did? The N.Koreans got Nukes thanks to Clinton! Woot!

Enron! Wow.. you drink heavily of the Tom Daschle Kool Aide dont you? Bush knew that there were some issues with Enron, but Enron asked Bsh to save them and he siad "NO"

BTW Bush has been cleared of ANY WRONG DOING in his "insider trading" that you speak of, thats old hat, and you needs get a new line.

[Hamma]

and the 2 parties fight.

politics is such a waste of time, US government does nothing but bicker, and accomplishes little to nothing. Like prescription drugs, we dont talk about that at every state of the union :rolleyes:


On a lighter not, people dont want hydrogen cars. Thats obvious from what the auto makers showed off at the auto shows this year. I want power, I want a fast rumbling engine. Hell, if we are gonna take out this world, may as well do it while having fun.

[OneManArmy]

LOL hamma sometimes your posts just hit straight to the :love: .

I must agree politics is a complete waste of time. who's ever elected might get stuff done or he might not depending on whos in the hizzie or sizzie for shizzie... (House of representatives and Sentate :rolleyes: )

Politicians come and go, but nothing drastic changes, taxes go up, taxes go down.... but america is always billions of dollar in debt and people are still dying all over the world from simple preventable shit. I really could care less who's getting laid where and who's making what kinda car... fix the shit thats seriously broke first!!!

[Airlift]

I would drive a hydrogen car in a second if it could perform as well as gas-powered and it wasn't at risk of spontaneous combustion.

[Hijinks]

Originally posted by Airlift
I would drive a hydrogen car in a second if it could perform as well as gas-powered and it wasn't at risk of spontaneous combustion.

plus it has to look cool.

[Airlift]

Too true, too true

[Yuyi]

Wow vich. Couldn't of said it better myself :D

[Hamma]

OMG LIKE WE NEED HYDROGEN POWERED CARS

WE HAVE TOO MUCH WATER ALREADY!?!??! I MEAN, A CAR THAT PRODUCES WATER?!??!

:rofl:

sry, been a long day :D

[Navaron]

LOL, the gov. from Washington has a 30% approval rating in his own state!! Way to pick a representative. This is the same guy that took medicare and medicaid away from the homeless people so they would move to CA. What a dick.

[Sol]

Bush wont actually support hydrogen cars. That would threaten his oil empire. Anything positive about the environment? Forget it. Cheney and the fatcats will shut that down in no time.

His taxcuts will grossly favor those who already have money falling out of there ass. I dont need a tax cut, a lot of people dont need them. But obscene amounts of people need more money, and as long as there is a republican in office, those who struggle to feed shelter and clothe themselves will get the short end of the stick.

Why give a taxcut to everyone when the doing so would stimulate the German auto industry more than the US economy?

As far is Clinton is concerned... well see my sig for details. Shrub new Clinton was a great man. Sure he had some... heh... ethical issues in his private life, but that did not interfere with his ability to run this nation.

The election was a mess too. Al Gore had more votes, no one disputes that. But Jeb Bush gave his brother an early Christmas present in a very American coup. I could rant on for pages and pages but I'll reduce it to this:

See the movies:

Roger and Me, and Bowling for Columbine

Then read the book Stupid White Men by Michael Moore.

[Sol]

And Hamma's right. People dont want hydrogen powered cars. Who gives a shit about the environment if your great grandchildren are going to be dealing with the problems? I like my 8 mpg SUV so why shouldnt I have one?

Its a damn shame many people are short sighted.

The oil companies dont want hydrogen cars either. Hydrogen cars would be great for the environment, but if introduced too quickly the economy would be pwned. Stock in oil companies would drop like a rock.

[Navaron]

One Fact. I'm not asking for alot. These whackjob liberals go flying off the handle spouting absurd rants, and all I want; is to see them produce one fact. Just one to back up any of the whacko statements. I don't think it's too much to ask.

I hear the democrats are changing their symbol from a jackass to chicken little. I guess the sky really is falling.

Did you even watch the SoTU address? Was the sound on your TV on?

[archaic1128]

Lexington,
I don't care if 9-11 happened 5 yrs ago, if it's aftermaths are still effecting our country it is an ISSUE. What you are failing to realize is how devastating 9-11 was in a whole. I am a self employed tradesman who has worked the last 11 yrs building a company to all but lose everything i worked for because of 9-11. Is it an issue, HELL YES! Many small business' are going under or are out of business because of what 9-11 did to the allready slumping economy. Then throw a dose of corporate scams on top of that, and you wonder why our economy is in the shitter? PEOPLE are afraid to spend MONEY, and/or lost their jobs due to CORPORATE downsizing etc, it's a never ending cycle get it? Do you have a solution? No, but hey let's blame Bush, it's all his fault.

Yes, Mr. BJ-Clinton did trade secret documents to the chinese, face the facts pal. Like Koldfusion stated, millions of dollars donated to his campaign. Have you ever heard of the Chinese donating to any other presidents campaign? It's also kinda suspicious as to their sudden missle technology jump, and missing documents ya think? What ever happened to mr. BJ-Clinton's "National Health Care" that he vowed to have implemented? 8 yrs , and not a damn thing. The only thing he managed to do was give HMO's the right to refuse.

Mr. Vicchio, nicely stated.

Koldfusion, I agree with you on the war/economy issue. Alltough i personally think it will do more damage than good, but we can't let Iraq slip out the back door for 12 more years either.

Ohh, wait NAFTA, what a crock of shit that is. In theory it's a good idea, but our corporate owned factories weren't setup to compete w/ third world developing nations either.

[Sol]

Look around. See all the SUVs?

See how low the stockmarket is?

Al Gore had more votes.

The supreme court stopped the recounting.

If you want some more facts watch the movies and read the book... there's more shit about Shrub and fatcats than you can shake a stick at in there.

I'm not going to call you or any other republican a 'whackjob.'
There are respectable democrats and republicans, they're people with different ideas. One is not superior to the other. The respectable ones treat the other side with as much dignity as thier own.

Am I or any other democrat truly a "whackjob?" Are we devoid of all ability to reason? Should we be stifled and ignored?

Thats for you to decide. But there is a right answer.

[archaic1128]

Sol,
I am not a die hard Republican. As a matter of fact i don't consider myself a Republican or Democrat because i don't agree w/ a Republican or Democrat just because of their party. I look at the issues each represent and make my decision based on the info.

However, one thing i do disagree w/ Democrats is the fact they believe in BIG Government. They think the Government knows whats best for us. I'm sorry but the less government interferes w/ my daily decisions the better.

On the other hand, the Republicans generally make the rich- richer and the poor -poorer. Either way you look at it, it's a lose/lose situation, or shall i say which is the lesser of evils.

Both parties need to lose their ego's and start doing what is best for the people who put them there in the first place.

[Mtx]

War is actually a good thing for me. Bad for the rest of the world but good for me.

[Airlift]

Both parties may as well be considered corporations, and we voters are their consumers. While they are selling competing products, it's really the same shit underneath all the marketing speak. It is not about policy or theory of government, it is about who gets the most constituents to buy into what they are selling so they can sit in the seat of power.

That is why things like campaign fincance reform are always promised and never delivered by either party. The politicians who really want campaign reform are the ones who have no hope of being elected without it. The funny thing is that if they really got elected, they would probably be a lot less interested in fixing the process.

I don't know why I'm sounding off in a political debate. I think eMa's religion thread drew me out. But since I've already gone this far, here's the whole hog: The two most ridiculous views political views ever to be uttered in our fine country are (in no particular order):

1. Democrats Good, Republicans Bad
2. Republicans Good, Democrats Bad

[KoldFusion]

Originally posted by archaic1128

Koldfusion, I agree with you on the war/economy issue. Alltough i personally think it will do more damage than good, but we can't let Iraq slip out the back door for 12 more years either.


What I meant was (i guess I didn't state it clearly) was some facets of the economy will flourish. Those of us in the military or in the defense industry have something to do :) Thanks for the good post :)

[MrVicchio]

Sol,

Since you obviously don't bother to understand things, I will educate you...

The Supreme court DID NOT STOP THE RECOUNT... The Democrats DID...

WTF?? You say... well here is what happened...

The supreme Court said you cannot do the recount the way you propose, which was to have a different standard in each county. Doing that is unconstitutional. At that point the Dems gave up.

Go learn the facts before you try and quote em.

[Lexington_Steele]

Originally posted by MrVicchio
BTW Bush has been cleared of ANY WRONG DOING in his "insider trading" that you speak of, thats old hat, and you needs get a new line.

In the early '90s, Bush was involved in insider trading with the stock of an oil company of which he was an official. He dumped the shares shortly before the firm tanked, then failed to report his activity to the Securities and Exchange Commission for months.

The ensuing investigation was handled by an agency whose director was a Bush Sr. appointee and whose general counsel was Bush the younger's own former attorney.

Is it really a wonder why the charges were dropped?

Maybe Bush was able to beat the system, but that does not mean he did not do anyhting wrong.

[MrVicchio]

Not all Republicans are good, and not all Dems are bad. Its the radicals, and the trators in each party. Sadly, the Dems are enthralled by the FAR left at the moment, and thus are a real Threat to this Country.

2 republicans that I hate and detest:

John McCain and Arlen Spector.

[Lexington_Steele]

Originally posted by archaic1128
Yes, Mr. BJ-Clinton did trade secret documents to the chinese, face the facts pal. Like Koldfusion stated, millions of dollars donated to his campaign. Have you ever heard of the Chinese donating to any other presidents campaign? It's also kinda suspicious as to their sudden missle technology jump, and missing documents ya think? What ever happened to mr. BJ-Clinton's "National Health Care" that he vowed to have implemented? 8 yrs , and not a damn thing. The only thing he managed to do was give HMO's the right to refuse.


Clinton did not give secrets to the chinese. He did not attack China as much as he should have when he found out about the security leaks, but he did not give secrets to the Chinese.

What happened to Clintons Health care? He was stuck with a republican congress.

[Hijinks]

http://www.geekshelf.com/gallery/falconred/farkshops/fark_magic_1.jpg

ripped off from a fark photoshop

[MrVicchio]

Do you have ANY earthly Idea what that health Care plan would have DONE to America? No you obviously don't. Thank God the RNC was incharge and stopped that mad man from sending us down that path of Socilaism. ASDFLHQ#WE_
&UYB"_J\-
5] hrbkt
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]gsfl[jHKA{PER*IU^%{PNHYWP" (%#Y OGIKQU%#}
thr

[Lexington_Steele]

I am not arguing for the the health care plan, I was merely asking the question of what happened to it. The finer points of health care is a whole new can of worms.

[MrVicchio]

You liberals, Wher were you when Clinton killed 2000 civilians? Where were you when he wanted to invade Iraq, and he almost did. You were cheering him on.

Hypocrits the lot of you are. Move to France and live in Socialist Hell there and quit trying to Tear Down America, you all do not deserve the Freedoms of this Country.

[Lexington_Steele]

Bah I am for Bush going into Iraq so. :p

[MrVicchio]

Jsut using an EXTEREME example to make a point.

[MrVicchio]

Dont make me slap you.

[Lexington_Steele]

Originally posted by MrVicchio
Hypocrits the lot of you are. Move to France and live in Socialist Hell there and quit trying to Tear Down America, you all do not deserve the Freedoms of this Country.

Politics is not as simple as doing what is right and wrong. It is a very hypocritical process. Show me a politician, I will show you a hypocrite. Politics is a game where you try to be as effective as possible. This often mean making deals and voting for things you are against. This also often mean making shady deals for the greater good. The politician that refuses to get their hands dirty is not the most effective politician.

Just because I support a politician does not mean that I personally support every thing he/she does or every thing he/she stands for.

I hope you do realize that that different liberals have different views even though you are very fond of stereotyping liberals. You republicans, always stereotyping people. ;)

[Sol]

Christ on a bike! Things are outta control here. Keeping it civil is clearly out of the question. Good post Airlift, although I think politics is a little more involved than Pepsi vs Coke.

Its unfortunate that no one on here seems capable treating an opposing point of view with any respect. Whatever, I'm not hear to write 10 pages about politics, so I wont get involved with the flamefest next time.

Go Planetside!

Edit: Vicchio needs some valium.

[MrVicchio]

No, there needs be a tad bit of reality Check going on here. The slamming of Busha nd the use of flase information to back up DNC talking points gets old. Thats not debate. Debate means some one can admit they are wrong.

BTW ATM I am ina rather pickle postition, one of my clan [ReTrY] quit today after someone crossed the line for the umpteenth time.

So my nerves are toilet.

[Navaron]

ABRAAX

Nothing like blanket, baseless statements.

"George W Bush = North americas own Ossama bin ladden"

Yeah youre right, he's killed 3000 innocent people who were just working. Waitaminute, BJ Clinton *DIIIID* do that, we just owe them another thousand.

"sorry man the guy is fuckin scary and luckily canada is smart enough to hold back ,in this whole thing . and seriously saddam doesnt scare me half as much as what bush is capeable of "

Canada's not smart enough, they are scared enough. No offense, but when was the last damn time any European country or Canada went out of their way, and took the initiative to halt attocities anywhere in the world.

I think that you don't know when to be scared. America could have leveled every damn country that had even 1 terrorist in it. We didn't though did we?

Your buddy Hussein has enough anthrax to kill a million people. You would think that a guy that kills his own people daily, and who has sponsered terrorism all over the world, would scare you.

I hope that he doesnt' pick your home town for the next attack, cause I don't know how you'd ever get your foot out of your mouth. Then again, I don't know how you got your head that far up your ass either.

[Lexington_Steele]

Originally posted by {BOHICA}Navaron
No offense, but when was the last damn time any European country or Canada went out of their way, and took the initiative to halt attocities anywhere in the world.


It is a little thing called a right to have sovereignty.

[Navaron]

Or Cowardice. America had to go over there and stop Milosivich, there own fucking neighbors turned away refugees begging for asylum. If that was going on in Mexico, Canada whereever, we'd be there in a heartbeat helping the people acheive freedom.

This whole force you views on people is bullshit, you can't force freedom on anyone.

[Lexington_Steele]

"But I also made it clear to (Vladimir Putin) that it's important to think beyond the old days of when we had the concept that if we blew each other up, the world would be safe." -George W. Bush, May 1, 2001

Gotta love our Bush

[Navaron]

Gotta love Reagan, MADD was a great, wise policy.

[MrVicchio]

Soverignty... The lefts version of that is the UN runs teh world...

[MrVicchio]

GUYS LEts all take a deep breath, myself included, and toen teh rhetoric down okay? Or I will ask AFEX to kill this thread.

[Lexington_Steele]

Originally posted by {BOHICA}Navaron
Or Cowardice. America had to go over there and stop Milosivich, there own fucking neighbors turned away refugees begging for asylum. If that was going on in Mexico, Canada whereever, we'd be there in a heartbeat helping the people acheive freedom.

This whole force you views on people is bullshit, you can't force freedom on anyone.

Or the rest of the world can come over here and make us get rid of the death penalty. Is that their right or do we have the right to decide for ourselves?

You tread on very shakey ground when you throw out the right to have soverignty.

[Nohimn]

there was an interesting article in the times that took an optimistic view of a possible outcome of the war... If only I can find it...

[Navaron]

Mass Genocide is very very different than the death penalty. America has one of the best death penalty policies in the world. You find me a better court system anywhere.

"You tread on very shakey ground when you throw out the right to have soverignty."

What about each individuals right to freedom? Does a dictators right to sovereignty surpass it's population's right to freedom? I think not.

All of these new age liberals, and pie in the sky European countries all have their heads in the sand. They think everyone is good hearted, and if you just keep your heads down and make peace with everyone, it'll be ok. The French sure can't learn that lesson.

"Peace in our time" That sound familier to anyone? Now...who can tell me what happened next?

[Nohimn]

remember this part?

"Oh yeah.... THE NEW CONGLOMERATE ROCKS!!"
-----George W Bush

[Zatrais]

I hate the gullibility of the Euro leaders aswell, hell i'm ashamed at the spinelessness of my countries (norway) prime minister.. and you'd think that the other leaders of europe would learn from the several terror attacks thats happened in europe..

Go on US, kill the terrorist bastards and remove the dictators and the regimes that oppresses its people. Got my backing for what its worth hehe

[Nohimn]

Terrorism shall die at the hands of the US

[Incompetent]

I missed the SotU but I want to add that i think bush is doing as good a job as possible in the shit situation the country is in now.
Your buddy Hussein has enough anthrax to kill a million people Actually, he had enough to kill the world three times over, and i think i heard that only a third or so was acounted for by weapon inspectors.

[Lexington_Steele]

Originally posted by {BOHICA}Navaron

"You tread on very shakey ground when you throw out the right to have soverignty."

What about each individuals right to freedom? Does a dictators right to sovereignty surpass it's population's right to freedom? I think not.

Who gave us the right to decide what people in other countries want?

You say there is a difference between genocide and the death penalty, I agree, but exactly where is it that you draw the line between inposing American ideals and preventing moral injustice. Some countries consider any kind of death penalty to be barbaric, regardless of how you feel it is carried out. Who gets to pick which morals are correct and why?

What is the criteria for the US being able to tell others what to do? What makes our values more correct than someone elses values.

Violating a country's right to sovereignty is not something that should be taken lightly.

Politically, I can see why other countrys would sit on the fence with the whole Saddam thing. It is not as simple as they are pro saddam or anti war. It is not cowardice. It has more to do with how will their country benefit or be hurt by the actions they take. It has to do with doing what they think is best for their people. I don't see how America can fault another country for trying to do what is best for their people.

[Sputty]

I think the U.S., if they attack Iraq, will have set an annoying precedent they'll have to follow. In a country that could threaten the U.S. with weapons and have an unjust government they'll have to attack and remove the leaders and install a democracy. I think this could lead to many governments become more isolated and prepare for an "inevitable" war between the U.S. and them. Some small governments aren't a huge problem but what if Chin doesn't like the U.S. in Korea or feels threatened enough to lash out? That could lead to a major war between China and the U.S. bringing other countries in.

[Incompetent]

united states does not help oppressed people,there is lots of places where otrocities Your country likes to stand in the way, you need to realize that some people have to die to make the world a better place.
Who gave us the right to decide what people in other countries want? Uh, defecting Iraqi's HATE Saddam, as would any reasonable person, who wants to live under someone who gives out medals for shooting your own children.
if the united states goes against the UN and starts a war on there own I gaurantee that alot of major countries are gonna step in and the united states wont win . anyways im loosing track and I have no idea where I wa sgoing with this Let me get this straight, we try to help people living in a shithole where the Dictators favorite form of torture is to lock you in a room with acid dripping from the ceiling and other countries help him, and then they turn around and accuse us of letting oppression continue.

[Lexington_Steele]

Originally posted by Incompetent
quote:
-------------------------------------------------------------
Who gave us the right to decide what people in other countries want?
-------------------------------------------------------------

Uh, defecting Iraqi's HATE Saddam, as would any reasonable person, who wants to live under someone who gives out medals for shooting your own children.


So how many people have to hate the leader of a country for the US to be "allowed" to invade? One? Two? The majority? Who get to conduct these surveys of what the people in a country want.

If the US is going into Iraq to save the Iraqis, what is our plan for post Saddam Iraq? Do we even have one? What is going to be the criteria for the person that we prop up? Is it going to be for humanitarian reasons, or is it going to be the person most likely to work with the US economically?

[Incompetent]

So how many people have to hate the leader of a country for the US to be "allowed" to invade? One? Two? The majority? Everyone, and surprisingly enough thats true about a country that has to have 11 different security agencies spying on each other and the dictator regularly interagates anyone who works anywhere near him, and quite often, executes them while they are sleeping.
If the US is going into Iraq to save the Iraqis, what is our plan for post Saddam Iraq? Install a goverment with its head out of its ass, thats all they really need, Iraq's oil industry could bring in enough money to rebuild the country and prosper in the future.

[Navaron]

ABRAX - not only are you a true moron. You're a fool and an ignoramus. You are a brainwashed whacko. I'm sure that's the general consencus.

"Who gave us the right to decide what people in other countries want?"

We're not deciding what they won't or don't want. Although I think its safe to say, that being murdered for disagreement isn't right. Incredible amounts of torture, genocide, and slaughter of children is universally accepted as evil. That's when we step in. That is just and moral. We are forcing our views or style of government on anyone. You can't force freedom on anyone. It's just not possible.

"In a country that could threaten the U.S. with weapons and have an unjust government they'll have to attack and remove the leaders and install a democracy"

Any country that poses a direct and deadly threat to the US should and will be dealt with swiftly and deftly. Simple as that. That is a precedent that was set hundreds of years ago with the Barbara pirates.

"but what if Chin doesn't like the U.S. in Korea or feels threatened enough to lash out? That could lead to a major war between China and the U.S. bringing other countries in."

This was a but, so I'll go easy. China is the US's number 1 supporter in the region for the total nuclear disarmament of N Korea. Even the Chinese know the NKoreans are unstable.

"If the US is going into Iraq to save the Iraqis, what is our plan for post Saddam Iraq? Do we even have one? What is going to be the criteria for the person that we prop up? Is it going to be for humanitarian reasons, or is it going to be the person most likely to work with the US economically?"

We will build an infrastructure and army just like we did in SKorea through Afghanistan. It will definately be a democracy or representative republic where the people are in the right, and in power. Freedom. That's what we're after.

[Sputty]

I just hope it doesn't destablize that region. The U.S. could have a major problem on their hands if lot of the middle east decide to act. I know that they may not but that area isn't very happy about any U.S. involvement.

[SandTrout]

Great speach, with the exception of a few slips of the tounge which he corrected. Then again, I'm sure I would forget how a line went if I had to memorize a half-hour speach(compensateing for applause). Bush has become a grade: A politician, though I'm to paranoid of govornment to know if this is a good thing or not.

[Navaron]

"I just hope it doesn't destablize that region. The U.S. could have a major problem on their hands if lot of the middle east decide to act. I know that they may not but that area isn't very happy about any U.S. involvement."

Time for some schoolin, sit back, I'm gonna learn ya one...

It is impossible to destabilize that region. They are all at odds with each other. They are all ready to slit each other's necks.

Also, there are only 3 actual militaries in the mid east, Israel, Iraq, and Iran. The next closest thing is Egypt, and they know enough to sit down and shut up, because even the puss UN is on their ass like white on rice.

Israel - most powerful and elite army in the entire region - 7 day war anyone? - our greates ally
+
Iraq - they folded like a wet napkin on a windy day
+
Iran - they want Hussein dead ASAP
=

We whoop a lot of ass.

[ABRAXAAS]

I may be a morron but think about this .

what is your idea of an evil country

how about a country that bombards its people with nothing but bad media to keep them scared and distracted ,while the government uses that to make money and pass laws that take away peoples freedoms.

what about a country where people are aloud to freely demonstrate Rascism and make money off it publicly .

What about a country where they pit other smaller countrys against them selfs for there bennefit ,and then are stupid enough to let those people turn around attack there own country .

What about a country that was built on slavery .

what about a country that dispite what the world tells them goes ahead and attacks a smaller country to bennefit itslef.

well that to me sounds like an eveil country ....oh wait that soundslike the US :eek:

[Sputty]

It's not the armies I'm worried about. It's the chance that some zealous freaks will attack in huge masses and why are you trying to attack me? I never said anything wa wrong with it just that I was worried someting could happen. ABRAXXAS, that's pretty weord. I All your "arguments" are just your personal opinion. BTW, what country wasn't built by slavery? Unluckily, none that I can think of. Slave have only somewhat recently been obolished. That's just some useless history that just tells us things were different then.

[Lexington_Steele]

Originally posted by {BOHICA}Navaron
We're not deciding what they won't or don't want. Although I think its safe to say, that being murdered for disagreement isn't right. Incredible amounts of torture, genocide, and slaughter of children is universally accepted as evil. That's when we step in. That is just and moral. We are forcing our views or style of government on anyone. You can't force freedom on anyone. It's just not possible.

If you think this is the reason we are going into Iraq you are sorely mistaken. That is just fluff to garner support from the American people.

If it really is for humanitarian reasons, why didn't we go in along time ago. Why don't we go into the numerous countries where worse atrocities are going on? Why single out Iraq?

The sole reason that the US is going into Iraq is because of the weapons. If Iraq is stockpiling weapons of mass desruction than it is an issue of security and then becomes a valid reason, in the international community's eyes, for violating Iraq's soverignty.

This is why so much has been hinging on weapons inspectors and their reports.

[Incompetent]

If it really is for humanitarian reasons, why didn't we go in along time ago. Because the entire world bitchs at us whenever we try to do anything, everything is hinging on the weapons inspectors because the rest of the world is to scared to go in there and get their hands dirty unless they're scared something bad might happen to them. Quite simply, if the rest of the world didn't just assume we were after oil every time we do anything overseas, we might actaully be able to get something done.

[Sol]

Originally posted by {BOHICA}Navaron
"I just hope it doesn't destablize that region. The U.S. could have a major problem on their hands if lot of the middle east decide to act. I know that they may not but that area isn't very happy about any U.S. involvement."

Time for some schoolin, sit back, I'm gonna learn ya one...

It is impossible to destabilize that region. They are all at odds with each other. They are all ready to slit each other's necks.

Also, there are only 3 actual militaries in the mid east, Israel, Iraq, and Iran. The next closest thing is Egypt, and they know enough to sit down and shut up, because even the puss UN is on their ass like white on rice.

Israel - most powerful and elite army in the entire region - 7 day war anyone? - our greates ally
+
Iraq - they folded like a wet napkin on a windy day
+
Iran - they want Hussein dead ASAP
=

We whoop a lot of ass.


You forgot at least one: Syria, and its right wing.

[Navaron]

"what is your idea of an evil country "

one that does shit like this - - - > http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/120202_saddamdossier.pdf

READ THAT

"how about a country that bombards its people with nothing but bad media to keep them scared and distracted ,while the government uses that to make money and pass laws that take away peoples freedoms"

Fortunately our media isn't government owned, and our leaders elected....

"what about a country where people are aloud to freely demonstrate Rascism and make money off it publicly ."

Huh?

"What about a country where they pit other smaller countrys against them selfs for there bennefit ,and then are stupid enough to let those people turn around attack there own country"

I know what you're trying to allude to, but I bet you don't. Back this up o mighty one.

"What about a country that was built on slavery ."

Like every single country in Africa, the countries in the Middle East that still have slavery, England, Rome, Italy, most of Euroupe including France, Japan, China, South America? What about those? You trying to make a point?

"what about a country that dispite what the world tells them goes ahead and attacks a smaller country to bennefit itslef."

What benifit would that be? Not being attacked by terrorists again? I'd say that would be fine by me.

At least come up with some good crazy stuff it you're going to try.

[Sputty]

Argh, too much reading...You still hurt my feelings though...:tear:
Why are you so mean to me?!?!?! Although I agree with you most of the time especially on what you said about ABRAXXAS's comments.

[Sol]

Sputty, its pretty clear that Navaron and Vicchio are going to insult and condescend anyone that disagrees with them.

[Zumthor]

http://maddox.xmission.com/bush_hardon7.jpg

[Navaron]

Syria is as worthless as tits on a boar. They don't even have a competant land force.

"If you think this is the reason we are going into Iraq you are sorely mistaken."

No no no, you asked when we should go in. Those were the times, I left out when we were in direct harm. I know the war about Iraq is that there is common knowledge that Iraq supports, harbors, and trains terrorists, and that they have a shitload of weapons they aren't being forthright with.

"If it really is for humanitarian reasons, why didn't we go in along time ago."

We do. We're pretty fucking consistant too, Clinton fucked up a whole lot, but America holds the world. If you don't believe that, go look at any countries embassy website and look and see how much loot we send them.

We've gone in all the way from Mogadishu to Iraq.

The problem is that we shouldn't have this problem. If Clinton had of dealt with it after Iraq had violated their agreement after5 years, we wouldnt have this problem.

[Zumthor]

http://maddox.xmission.com/bush_piss2.jpg

[Sol]

Syria has the 3rd largest army in the middle east, something up there at least.

[Navaron]

"Sputty, its pretty clear that Navaron and Vicchio are going to insult and condescend anyone that disagrees with them."

That's certainly not fair. I have openly confronted people who spout nonsense that they can't even back up with fact. The only person I insulted was ABRAX and he agreed that he was a moron. If you don't want to read it or participate in a serious conversation with people who take it seriously, then don't. There are people on here who don't know everything and are trying to form an opinion. An educated opinion is the best, and I think you'd agree.

[archaic1128]

ABRAAXUS,
You are a complete idiot that needs a reality check. Let me start out by saying i hardly ever read any news from our local broadcasters, let alone watch it. I try to get my info from as many media organizations around this globe as i can. Like these for an example:
http://www.arabnews.com/
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/front_page.html
http://www.news.bbc.co.uk/

These are just a few but you get the idea. Now time for your reality check,


"what about a country where people are aloud to freely demonstrate Rascism and make money off it publicly ."

Like it or not it's called FREE SPEECH. Something we americans can enjoy w/o the possibility of being slaughtered by some government henchman.

"What about a country that was built on slavery ."

Yer kidding right? People in Iraq ,N. Korea and China aren't slaves? They get to freely pursue happiness and wealth too i suppose? They also have freedom of speach i bet?
what happened a few hundred years ago has nothing to do w/ todays issues, moron. Last time i checked the US was a global leader for human rights, no?

"what about a country that dispite what the world tells them goes ahead and attacks a smaller country to bennefit itslef."

Personally, i don't give a fuck what any other country says. If other countries are to lazy or scared to get off their asses to do something about WMD's, then they can fuck off.

If you honestly think Hussein wouldn't use nukes or chemical weapons, then you are the one who is brain washed. He tests his weapons on his OWN people for christ's sake, get real.Should everyone standby and watch until it's to late. You know kinda like the Europeans did w/ Germany before WWII.

I could ramble on and on but fuck it. I think i'm just wasting my time w/ this moron.

Please, get your head out of your ASS before you post a reply, ok?

[Navaron]

"? look at afganistan The us government trained them to fight russia giving them military training and weapons only to turn around and have them attack the us"

God you are a moron, I knew you didn't know which one. Arrg.

Anyway, Afghanistan didn't attack us. We would have blown the hell out of them if they had, people who lived there attacked us not the country. We funded the Muja Hadein in the 80s to help us fight the cold war, which is not the Taliban.

[Lexington_Steele]

Originally posted by {BOHICA}Navaron

"If it really is for humanitarian reasons, why didn't we go in along time ago."

We do. We're pretty fucking consistant too, Clinton fucked up a whole lot, but America holds the world. If you don't believe that, go look at any countries embassy website and look and see how much loot we send them.

We've gone in all the way from Mogadishu to Iraq.

Consistant in our humanitarian escapades? Are you serious?

Why aren't we still in Somalia? Why aren't we in Sierra Lione? What does money have to do with the US preventing atrocities? You brought up Bosnia earlier, why did it take us so long to go in there? We pick and choose our humanitarian battles and it almost always has to do with protecting US interests.
Humanitarian reasons have little to do with it. The US is a very self interested country and there is nothing wrong with that.

It is complete garbage when you try to say that the US's interests are the rights of people everywhere.

[Navaron]

"They also trained Iraqies and columbians "

Yes you moron, they did, and yes it did work out for us. The Iraqis helped us defeat Iran in the cold war, it just turned out that Saddam took power. Sure we could have killed him, but that would have been meddling in internal affairs, we don't do that once a country is free.

The Columbian training definately worked out in the best interest of us and Columbia (believe it or not). Just do a websearch on these things before you post.

[ABRAXAAS]

did you know the american government is run by ex nazi's ,that continue to control the world :eek:

[Sputty]

Yes, who doesn't know that? I think everyone I know has known that for years...Geez, you don't seem to know much about the government....

[Navaron]

"Why aren't we still in Somalia? Why aren't we in Sierra Lione? "

Because everyones favorites, the UN stepped in and wanted domain. Look at the numbers, we contribute more money supplies and medicine than all of the other UN members combined.

"You brought up Bosnia earlier, why did it take us so long to go in there?"

---BJ CLINTON

I wanted us to go in a full two years before that.

I also think we should have intervened in Chechnya 2.5 years ago.

"The US is a very self interested country and there is nothing wrong with that."

This is where you and I will always disagree, I think we go well out of our way to help everyone in the world.

[Sputty]

Percentage wise the U.S. doesnt contribute the most.

[Navaron]

Percentage of what? Don't make me dig up those numbers, I really don't want to. I know we single handedly contribute more money than any individual country and that we contribute well over a third of the total UN budget. Why do you think we get our way? With out us, they fall.

[ABRAXAAS]

Personaly the UN should govern the world and be the only deciding group on world affairs simple . :D

[Sputty]

Percentage of the GNP. Also, most countries in the U.N. including the U.S. don't pay all their dues. Not arguing anyhting, but jsut stating something

[archaic1128]

^^^ Now i know that was a joke, noone can be that ignorant.

[Navaron]

Then nothing would ever happen. I could single handedly take over Europe, and they'd still be discussing possible embargos against me by the time I was 90. That is the most worthless thing ever. I wish we would absolve ourselves from the UN.

[Sandtaco]

Is it just me or is it Ironic that the Dems picked a guy from China (Communist) to do their rebuttle? Navaron, that is one of the most blatant, ignorant, and possibly racist comment I have heard in a long time. You assume that if you're from China you're communist? If so then you might want to go and rethink that comment.

[MrVicchio]

Originally posted by Sol
Sputty, its pretty clear that Navaron and Vicchio are going to insult and condescend anyone that disagrees with them.

That is not true. Of course, if pointing out how your "facts" are not facts but false information is deaming you.. then ... what ever.


Fact: This is pointless, cause people Suck.

[archaic1128]

that was meant for ABRAAXUS, not you Sputty.

[Navaron]

Now hang on, he started his rebuttle stating that he was of Chinese decent, and reiterated it several times. I just found it ironic. China is/was a communist country. So if you did live there you would be communist. That's not racist, thats how you buy stuff. I can see how you would get that though, and I apologize and retract my statement. I in no way meant it as a racist comment.

"including the U.S. don't pay all their dues."

Do you realize how in debt the UN is to the US?

[ABRAXAAS]

yeah he was dissin me :D fuck I dont care I dont even beleive anything im sayin im just bein a illiterate ass its kinda fun acting like an american :rofl: :rofl:

[Sputty]

Heh, do you mean monetarily?

[Navaron]

I remember why I hate trolls.....

[Navaron]

Heh, do you mean monetarily?

yep

[Sputty]

http://www.clw.org/pub/clw/un/debtpie.html
That's a little old though

[archaic1128]

^^^^ABRAAXUS,^^^^^

I know your joking because noone can be that ignorant. Unless your father is a sheep. :)

[Lexington_Steele]

Originally posted by {BOHICA}Navaron
This is where you and I will always disagree, I think we go well out of our way to help everyone in the world.
The UN hasn't stopped the US from doing things in the past.

We didn't fix anything in Somalia, why aren't we still there? Why aren't we in Nigeria? Why aren't we setting up a new government in the Philipines? What is our stance on the ethnic cleansing in Ituri? Why aren't we doing anyhting for the people of the Democratic Republic ofCongo? Do I need to go on with human rights violation that the US is ignoring? Human rights violations more sever than what is happening in Iraq.

The US fights for human rights outside of the US when it suits the US's interests.

Like I said there is nothing wrong with the the US focussing on its own interests (which is a capitalist point of view), but you are dead wrong in viewing the US as the human rights protectors of the world.

[Sol]

Vicchio's list of condescention and insults:

'Ahh Hamma.... to live free fromt he joys of Political Inisght... Must be... I couldn't do it... '

'Nav, You are responding to a Leftist Zombie that heard what he wanted to hear, not what was said. Thats obvious from his response.'

'Since you obviously don't bother to understand things, I will educate you...'

'Do you have ANY earthly Idea what that health Care plan would have DONE to America? No you obviously don't. Thank God the RNC was incharge and stopped that mad man from sending us down that path of Socilaism.'

'you all do not deserve the Freedoms of this Country.'

'Fact: This is pointless, cause people Suck.'

---------------------

Navaron's

'....ignorant people.....'

'These whackjob liberals go flying off the handle spouting absurd rants...'

'Did you even watch the SoTU address? Was the sound on your TV on?'

'I hope that he doesnt' pick your home town for the next attack, cause I don't know how you'd ever get your foot out of your mouth. Then again, I don't know how you got your head that far up your ass either.'

'not only are you a true moron. You're a fool and an ignoramus. You are a brainwashed whacko. I'm sure that's the general consencus.'

'Time for some schoolin, sit back, I'm gonna learn ya one...'

'At least come up with some good crazy stuff it you're going to try.'

'God you are a moron, I knew you didn't know which one. Arrg.'

'Yes you moron, they did, and yes it did work out for us. '

---------------


MY list

'no one on here seems capable treating an opposing point of view with any respect.'

'Look around.'


------------


There ya have it!

edit: I only quouted things that were in negative reference to other members of this board. I may have missed a few.

[Navaron]

Lex the UN is in every single one of those places.]

Dammit Sputty, you're going to make me dig out those numbers...... I hate you :p

[Sputty]

MWAHAHAHA!!! I make people do usless, pointless work! My job here is done! /me pulls cape over head and jumps out the window hurting himself bady

[Navaron]

We got to stop all this L33t on L33t crime man.

[Sputty]

Ok I :love: you Nav :hug:

[Navaron]

:cheers:

[Lexington_Steele]

Originally posted by {BOHICA}Navaron
Lex the UN is in every single one of those places.]


The UN is in Iraq aswell. Just because the UN has a presence does not men the problem has or will be fixed. Why is the UN pressence in Iraq not enough but it is magically enough everywhere else.

Do you really feel that the UN presence in the countries I mentioned is enough?

[Sputty]

NO!!!! :lol:

[Navaron]

"The UN is in Iraq aswell. Just because the UN has a presence does not men the problem has or will be fixed. Why is the UN pressence in Iraq not enough but it is magically enough everywhere else.

Do you really feel that the UN presence in the countries I mentioned is enough?"

That's not what I meant, I meant that they are in these countries policing and aiding the populace with food and medicine. America can not just go in there and do things their way. It's also a convinient excuse to pawn off problems on someone else. We can't do everything, although I think we wish we could.

[ABRAXAAS]

:blowup:

[SandTrout]

A)The USA should look out for it's own intrests, and often those intrests invole keeping the rest of the world away from chaos or tyranny. We have helped out the rest of the world when they start conficts, but now when we try to protect ourselves we meet resistance? We should do what is in our interest, and help out others in our spare time. We allready do plenty as-is anyways.

B)Saddam is a ruthless bastard who will make a move to attack his neighbors or the US if he gets a solid chance. He is a tyrant of the worst kind: He is a threat to everyone, inside and ourside his country. The Middle East is allready unstable, the only thing keeping them in line is the US and Isrealie armed forces.

C) An evil country is one that kills and tortures it citizens with the sole purpose of keeping the current leader in place. An oppresive nation is not necisaraly an evil nation, even if it is likely to become one.

D) If Isreal didn't exist, we wouldn't be haveing nearly as many problems in the region as we do. The problems would just be between the nations there. I'm not blameing Isreal, but they are the reason that we want to keep peace in the region. They have been a strong allie to us, and we are to them.

E) Abrax, stop the god damn spam allready.

[ABRAXAAS]

Anyways ,honestly yes they should whup Saddams ass and that is my honest opinion. YAY war :clap:

[MrVicchio]

Sol.

I was:

A: Jusst Razzing Hamma... He's my boss, and I would NEVER EVER rudely insult him.

B: I WAS educating you. You have yet to post where I was wrong in pointing out that YOU were wrong. that isn't insulting, thats calling you out for stating a lie. If you can refute that. go for it. But! Since that post of mine, all you have done is played the vicitm card.

The rest.. bah those guys have thick skin and can fire back at will :P

[Zatrais]

So lettme get this straight

Some of you guys want to keep the US because iraq has a right to rule itself? Iraq isn't ruling itselfs, it's beeing held hostage at gunpoint by a madman whit 28 984 chemical/biological warheads whit more than enough antrax to fill them and kill a few more million people. Saddam is a nutcase, he dosn't even sleep in the same place twice in fear of assassination.

Iraq has a right to rule iraq, saddam does not. Blow the fucker up so we can remove the weapons, lift the sanctions, export the oil so the iraqi people can get the money they need to rebuild the country and get a decent economy going.

Now, whats so damn bad a bout that? Sure civilians will die die in an attack but thinking about individuals when it comes to ridding a nation of a dictator thats commited mass murder..

[MrVicchio]

A wise man once said:
"Logic dictates that the good fo the many, out wieghs the good of the few, or the one"

[KoldFusion]

Originally posted by Incompetent
Because the entire world bitchs at us whenever we try to do anything, everything is hinging on the weapons inspectors because the rest of the world is to scared to go in there and get their hands dirty unless they're scared something bad might happen to them. Quite simply, if the rest of the world didn't just assume we were after oil every time we do anything overseas, we might actaully be able to get something done.

Right... The world gets mad at us when we help and gets even more upset if we don't. The middle east always asks us to go over and help palestine and isreal achieve peace.... so it is the middle east that involves us in their affairs. AMERICA= DAMNED IF YOU DO DAMNED IF YOU DON'T. WE SHOULD THROW UP A WALL AND LET THE WORLD ROT IN IT'S OWN SH*T. Every political thread I read has spinless people that really don't understand what they are saying..... this is NOT an OIL WAR, or a BUSH WAR, it is about the saftey of the world. If the rest of the world would have gotten off their collective asses instead baskin in their own complacancy then maybe the terroist cells would be less prevelent and other atrocisties in the world would be fewer in number. Fact is that most countries sit around and wait for the US to get around to helping them. We can't do it all and it is time other countries do their part as WORLD CITIZENS... Dammit you guys have me worked up.....

ABRAXAAS,
You should take this more serious than you are. If your co-workers said we deserve 9-11.... well then i hope someone flys a plane and crashes it into your building.... why? Well, you may not believe me but I would be just as horrified if it happened to you guys as if it happened here. Your co-workers have a bad place waiting for them when they die. I'll sum this up with this....
CANADA= French founders.... NUFF SAID.

We can't please anyone... and the fact is..... w/o a US backed UN the UN loses the only pair of F***ing testicles they have. They Would they be able to produce some decent miltary numbers... sure.... but is not numbers that win anymore... it is training and technology that rule the day... we don't pay our dues to the UN b/c it costs us money to deploy troops in UN sanctioned actions.... no no.... it is the UN and the world that owes us dues.... We rebuild post war areas, provide econmic aide, etc..... and we don't ask for one red f***ing cent in return.

Educate, educate, educate..... before you speak. done.

[Sol]

Originally posted by MrVicchio
Sol.

I was:

A: Jusst Razzing Hamma... He's my boss, and I would NEVER EVER rudely insult him.

B: I WAS educating you. You have yet to post where I was wrong in pointing out that YOU were wrong. that isn't insulting, thats calling you out for stating a lie. If you can refute that. go for it. But! Since that post of mine, all you have done is played the vicitm card.

The rest.. bah those guys have thick skin and can fire back at will :P

It doesnt matter if you were educating me or not. You still presented it in a condescending and a 'you're just an ignorant gimp' kind of way.

And I dont agree with your statement, the supreme court stopped the recounts. And dont repeat yourself, we dont agree, end of story.

[Lexington_Steele]

Originally posted by MrVicchio
A wise man once said:
"Logic dictates that the good fo the many, out wieghs the good of the few, or the one"

Not for the few or the one.

Don't forget, wise men are sometimes wrong.

[MrVicchio]

Sol:

You are basing taht on an opinion, I am stating fact, or are facts too inconveint for you?

[Sputty]

Originally posted by MrVicchio
A wise man once said:
"Logic dictates that the good fo the many, out wieghs the good of the few, or the one"
I hope you weren't making fun of Spock....If so...:blowup:

[MrVicchio]

No, I use that all the time :)

[Sputty]

Good, nevermind then.:thumbsup: