howabout a few mobile suit types? [Archive]

Sturm

2003-01-29, 11:17 PM

Im thinking NO. Why would they put a bigger version of a max into the game? Why would anyone even play a max anymore if you could use a mech to run around in?(forgetting inside combat)
Secondly if you added ameter tall mech to the game that seems a little too much; its doesnt fit in with a first person shooter game that well. The people on the ground in their puny armor wouldn't stand a chance.
Everyone would want to be mechs for outdoor combat because of their armor and weapons.

Sputty

2003-01-29, 11:18 PM

Well, if anyhting a more Mech like thing would be in but it's basically a huge walking tank with added maneuverability and huge firepwoer, also strong armor. It's jsut too strong...

Sturm

2003-01-29, 11:21 PM

Sandtrout think of them as "vertical tanks" like they did for the simulator for the xbox w/ the 200$ controller...
They basically offer more versatility in combat because of their mobility.
Tanks still have some advantages over vertical tanks though...Lower to the ground obviously, some tanks are practically just a box built around a big gun,etc.
I don't think these vertical tanks would fit well into the game with MAX's already being there.
I like mechwarrior just as much as the next fella, but I don't want mechs running around....

P.S. Ahh when a mmog of Mech Warrior comes out...that's going to be a fine day:)

Airlift

2003-01-29, 11:30 PM

I'm against any mecha in games where they aren't the central theme. The reason isn't because they are so powerful, it is because giant robots are ridiculous weapons.

Lexington_Steele

2003-01-29, 11:30 PM

Originally posted by Sturm
P.S. Ahh when a mmog of Mech Warrior comes out...that's going to be a fine day:)
Mmmmmmmmm!

Sputty

2003-01-29, 11:31 PM

I had a weird dream about that once. MMOMechwarrior 2...heh...I was freaked..It was really weird too..

CDaws

2003-01-30, 12:35 AM

Originally posted by SandTrout
I don't understand the deal with "mobile-suits" being so damn powerful. can someone explain what makes them so much more effective than a tank?
It really depends on what mobile-suit or mech your compairing to. There's thousands of them out there either in games or in anime. The whole "Gundam Series", "Robotech Series", "Metal Gear Series", "Heavy Gear Series", "Mechwarrior Series", etc . . . . just to name a few out of the many. Sturm your talking about SteelBatalion for the Xbox right?

Ouroboros

2003-01-30, 12:44 AM

Maybe add some multipurpose vehicles? :D

Like a buggy that can transform and hover for a short period of time(hovering = faster/avoiding ground obsticles).

Zatrais

2003-01-30, 07:30 AM

They better not turn this game into some anime replica whit 30 feet tall robots running around flying whit jetmotors in their asses.

I like the semi future thing they got going here, it's into the future but not so far out that you can't reconise the weapons and vehicles.

Hamma

2003-01-30, 08:21 AM

This was talked about in the very early days on the official forums. I dont think you willl ever see mechs in PS

Dead Ben

2003-01-30, 09:06 AM

MMOMechwarrior would be great... I say 5 years down the line they'll have a great version of this...

chaos1428

2003-01-30, 10:23 AM

They started a really cool MMOL mech game. About 2 years ago, Battletech3025. But EA scrapped the Beta in favor of Majestic, and more Sims projects. Was probably the most fun I've ever had. They did talk about bringing it back at a later date, but I doubt it.

ZeroMasters

2003-01-30, 03:34 PM

well they could make mechs, but make them as "prototype" which would have normal armor as a tank, normal manuverability, with exeptions, and the ability to use variable weopons.i mean mechs aint gota be ALL POWERFUL, think gundam, a tank is just as good as a mech, one just looks cooler :rolleyes:

chaos1428

2003-01-30, 03:44 PM

Nah, PS is fine without mechs. I will agree that mechs have no place in an FPS. Besides, the MAX is already kind of a mech. Think of it as an Elemental Suit, from Mechwarrior ;)

Mikedanad

2003-01-30, 03:50 PM

Originally posted by Sturm
Sandtrout think of them as "vertical tanks" like they did for the simulator for the xbox w/ the 200$ controller...
They basically offer more versatility in combat because of their mobility.

Hehe, I have this game, it f-ing rawks...im gunna go play some..

Zaphod_42

2003-01-30, 03:51 PM

we must also remember a Mech has one big flaw (the legs!!) blow one leg of and they are imobilised (sitting ducks!!)

BLuE_ZeRO

2003-01-30, 03:55 PM

They could incorporate something like that! If you blow off a leg than it can't move. Makes it a little more fair but it also makes the mech driver a little more conscious about taking damage. Area specific damage in general would be nice but whatever :D

As for the mechs being really big why not just make them a little smaller. Medium sized robots that are smaller than a tank but slightly bigger than a MAX.

ZeroMasters

2003-01-30, 03:59 PM

hmm, for in a few years, howabout a mech suit like in bubblegum crisis, you know smaller than the max, fast as hell, and super weopons???? that would be nice.

Camping Carl

2003-01-30, 04:16 PM

Even if mechs were in the game, there's no realistic way they could be more powerfull than a tank. The only advantage legs have is mobility, and that's not much.

SandTrout

2003-01-30, 04:17 PM

I was refering t walking tanks in general, what does a walking tank have over a normal tank if you speant the same amount of money on it? The Metal Gear line is somewhat exempt because they were designed as a mobile nuclear platform, and not a main battle tank. Evas were not mobile tanks, but some bio-mechanical creation that I still dont quite understand dispite haveing seen most of the serise(sp?).

Lets look at a normal tank first. Simple treads for traverseing most terrain, and high weight capacity. You can have a bitchload of armor and a huge gun easaly. average cost of a few hundred million dollars(just an estimate, havent dug up any numbers). You can still mount different types of weapons or ammo on a tank. few and small weak spots.

Now let's look at a walking tank. Small surface area on the feet means that it will sink easaly into marshy/soft terrain. You have to have very powerful and sophisticated hydrolics for the joints just as the ankle, shoulder, arms, and hands. The MAX armor is exempt from most of these rules because it is small enough to use electic motors and/or the user's own muscles. These joints will also be vunerable because armor plateing would restrict movement too much. Also, balance systems to keep them upright would cost tremendouse amounts of time and resources to develop and install. This leaves them easaly crippled and disabled, along with less firepower and/or armor than a classic tank. This would also make maintainance costs sky-rocket. In order to control these extreamly complex machines you would need a direct brain-to-machine interface that would cost a medium sized country to develop and test and extreamly skilled pilots to use them effectively.

If you want to to make a point on jump/flight jets, give me a break, these things could never out-menuver a jet fighter, and the engeins to get a mobile-suit off the ground would be the size of a jet-fighter. The Gundam serise was absolutely horable anime because it defied several of the laws of phisics, as well as common sense(If those things realy did move like that, the pilots would be a smear on the wall).

In short, the mobile-suit offers very little for what it looses compared to a normal tank.

Sputty

2003-01-30, 04:18 PM

Just get a MAX cert and that's basically a mech

BLuE_ZeRO

2003-01-30, 04:18 PM

But you can mount a vast array of large weaponry on a mech. That increased mobility can be the determining factor between death and survival. Would be pretty sweet if you could have the mech jump on top of tanks and just smash them lol.

SandTrout

2003-01-30, 04:19 PM

Anime is not a good reference for real sci-fi. They make their main characters godlike dispite most of the laws of phisics.

Sputty

2003-01-30, 04:20 PM

It would most likely, if any mechs which probably won't be created in PS, be a Mechwarrior style mech.

BLuE_ZeRO

2003-01-30, 04:23 PM

Well this is a "game." Look at mechwarrior, those robots aren't exactly under armed.

Actually in most anime as far as realistim goes mechs are pretty fitting for their environment. For zero-g battles the mechs can handle a larger weapon load because there is less stress on the mech itself. For the planet based battles the mechs were either equipped with smaller weapons or the mechs were more like tanks. They had larger legs and arms to support a larger load of weapons.

SandTrout

2003-01-30, 04:24 PM

A mech with as much weaponry as you are talking about would be easaly destroyed by a bazooka to the knee, and wouldnt be that much more mobile. A mech going even 40 mph would be easaly triped by a number of means.

Tanks today can reach 60+mph and cant be triped.

BLuE_ZeRO

2003-01-30, 04:53 PM

Doesn't have to be one size mech though. You could have one for primarily artillery and another for actual invasions and what not. Smaller ones that couldn't be tripped as easily and be quicker than a tank.

CDaws

2003-01-30, 04:57 PM

Originally posted by SandTrout
The Gundam serise was absolutely horable anime because it defied several of the laws of phisics, as well as common sense(If those things realy did move like that, the pilots would be a smear on the wall). In short, the mobile-suit offers very little for what it looses compared to a normal tank.
That's why it's anime and not real. I would prefer a mobile suit over a real tank if I had a choice over any one out of any series ever made. Out of the series I have seen, a regular tank looses against a mobile suit. So you can't apply true laws of physics to anime in series like that. Yeah they probably would get smeared going that fast but, then again it's not real. The Gundam series along with the Robotech series started the whole mech/mobile suit concept, so without them we wouldn't be having this conversation. Give them some credit even if the ealier series were a little bit boring. Small mechs or mobile suits would be a nice edition later down the line. Something not a big as a tank but bigger than a max. Maybe have them be a mobile weapons platform with interchangeable weapons like the MAX is but, have preconfiged layouts to make it equal. None of the custom stuff that's what killed all the Mechwarrior games I've played, one shot frag fest.

Camping Carl

2003-01-30, 04:57 PM

Blue_Zero, you watch to much TV.
Why would a mech carry more weapons? Tank treads can support a lot more. And mobility, well... legs are slower, and they're not as efficient.

If you think a mech would help you dodge tank shells, go out to your nearest military base, and have them shoot at you with a tank. Did you dodge the shell? No? Well imagine doing that in a big heavy robot, when you're less agile, and you're a much bigger target.

Vash

2003-01-30, 05:09 PM

Wasnt there a Gundam MMOG in development a little while back?

Moloch

2003-01-30, 06:10 PM

the main thing about a mech is they can change direction faster, also can see farther. Another thing is that they could be modular (ala Metal Fatigue, sweet game) and customizab;e for situations (like a max). However, most advantages are cancelled out by the VS vehicles which can strafe. The maxes are also able to change at an equipment terminal if they had the certs. I think if they add mechs, they should either be fast but unarmed or weakly armed and armored, used as scouting and AA (hence the better view), or quadrupedal, for realism in supporting a heavier load without sinking, and increasing leg protection. A Quadruped mech would be sweet, but would require even MORE complex programming(in real life) to control synchronized leg movement. But it could be decently fast, not easily tripped, and logically hold more weapons.
you could also make them 2 man, pilot and a gunner on the back. Also, if a ladder was used to get on the damn thing, enemies could sidestep its charge, maybe hop on as it slowed and jack the gunner. or not.

SandTrout

2003-01-30, 06:12 PM

Anime is not sci-fi, thats why they can get mechs to work enough to be useful. Any real Sci-fi only use exo-suits as the larges humanoid machine. My point reaminsts that they will not ad mobile-suits to PS.

Camping Carl

2003-01-30, 06:21 PM

the main thing about a mech is they can change direction faster

What? :huh:

Tanks can turn very fast for vehicles of their size. Plus the turret can turn separately.

Sputty

2003-01-30, 06:24 PM

Mechs would be far less maneurverable than tanks but because of their size probably faster. Tanks are smaller and on wheels. How could they be less maneuvarable than a huge walking tank thingy....

ZeroMasters

2003-01-30, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by SandTrout
I was refering t walking tanks in general, what does a walking tank have over a normal tank if you speant the same amount of money on it? The Metal Gear line is somewhat exempt because they were designed as a mobile nuclear platform, and not a main battle tank. Evas were not mobile tanks, but some bio-mechanical creation that I still dont quite understand dispite haveing seen most of the serise(sp?).

Lets look at a normal tank first. Simple treads for traverseing most terrain, and high weight capacity. You can have a bitchload of armor and a huge gun easaly. average cost of a few hundred million dollars(just an estimate, havent dug up any numbers). You can still mount different types of weapons or ammo on a tank. few and small weak spots.

Now let's look at a walking tank. Small surface area on the feet means that it will sink easaly into marshy/soft terrain. You have to have very powerful and sophisticated hydrolics for the joints just as the ankle, shoulder, arms, and hands. The MAX armor is exempt from most of these rules because it is small enough to use electic motors and/or the user's own muscles. These joints will also be vunerable because armor plateing would restrict movement too much. Also, balance systems to keep them upright would cost tremendouse amounts of time and resources to develop and install. This leaves them easaly crippled and disabled, along with less firepower and/or armor than a classic tank. This would also make maintainance costs sky-rocket. In order to control these extreamly complex machines you would need a direct brain-to-machine interface that would cost a medium sized country to develop and test and extreamly skilled pilots to use them effectively.

If you want to to make a point on jump/flight jets, give me a break, these things could never out-menuver a jet fighter, and the engeins to get a mobile-suit off the ground would be the size of a jet-fighter. The Gundam serise was absolutely horable anime because it defied several of the laws of phisics, as well as common sense(If those things realy did move like that, the pilots would be a smear on the wall).

In short, the mobile-suit offers very little for what it looses compared to a normal tank.

no, in the gundam anime series, they use different power supplies and new technologies to allow for the stuff they do. howabout a guntank, from the original gundam.

Sturm

2003-01-30, 07:04 PM

Why would people play MAX's when they could just be mechs? kinda takes whole point of MAX's away...

ZeroMasters

2003-01-30, 07:07 PM

Originally posted by Sputty
Mechs would be far less maneurverable than tanks but because of their size probably faster. Tanks are smaller and on wheels. How could they be less maneuvarable than a huge walking tank thingy....

well, piviting ankles, mobile knees, a waist it can turn on and arms that can move freeely.....it could just spin around and blow the shit outa anything, whil a tank has to sloly turn the turrent(yes slowly, the recoil systems prevent it from turning too fast)
a mech can duck, fall to the sid e to dodge,side step, Stand on a tank and shoot down on it, use a shield, and all the other bonisis........

Sputty

2003-01-30, 07:10 PM

Heh, tanks, have two independent tracks and a turreted cannon. And I've seen very few games where Mechs can duck fall side to side and some of the other things you said. Unless oy umena a mobile Gundam suit. Those have 0% chance of being in PS. They're way to unrealistic and unbalancing.

Airlift

2003-01-30, 07:31 PM

I just don't think you can put giant robots in a game that isn't going to be all about giant robots. I like mecha of all variety, but I also like dragons, and it would be fun to rip elder wyrms to shreds with a minigun, but please don't put them in planetside.:eek: :eek: :)

Camping Carl

2003-01-30, 07:37 PM

:clap: :spam: :rawr:

Sturm

2003-01-30, 08:12 PM

Well said Airlift; that's exactly how I feel.
It's very common for a person who plays all types of genres(fps, simulator, rpg, sports, strategy) to start wanting the best of both/all worlds in a game.
PS in my opinion is taking the GOOD ideas and concepts found in various fps and related games and encorportating them into what I think will be a revolutionary game for the fps genre. The one that makes new developers say"Man how are we going to compete with something this huge that has thousands of players in battle and is constantly being upgraded?"
Lets keep it as close to FPS as we can with of course the enhancements to gameplay added. At heart this is a FPS, not a strategy, or a RPG(though some people could say otherwise...).
Mech's just don't fit in......
MAX's are close enough to an elemental/mech/mobile to satisfy me...

P.S. Elementals were basically powered armor from the Meachwarrior series. Genetically engineered 2.5 meter tall people wore powered armor(which is basically like an exo suit).

Moloch

2003-01-30, 08:21 PM

I agree that there should not be mechs, I was just saying that in a fantasy world where there would be mechs in PS (and it's free) mechs would be awesome if quadrupedal. A big, doggish or cattish monstrosity pounding towards you with dual Magrider cannons on top would be pants-shittingly cool.
Also, I was thinkin that mechs could turn faster than a tank with independent treads cuz it could pivot on one foot and spin with the other. This would go faster than a tan with independent treads, because it still can't turn on a dime even whilst it is stopped, cuz the treads have more surface area on the ground, so it has to pull a Uey.
Oh yeh, I think MAXes are essentially specialized elementals.

BLuE_ZeRO

2003-01-30, 08:22 PM

Yeah this is purely a "It would be nice but it won't happen" thread. Mechs would be nice but they aren't neccesary for this game. No big deal, we can dream. No need to get worked up about it. Not like we're demanding the devs to put mechs in or we'll boycott the game. So there is no need to say "Don't put them in because you're going to ruin the game."

CDaws

2003-01-30, 11:41 PM

Originally posted by Moloch
A big, doggish or cattish monstrosity pounding towards you with dual Magrider cannons on top would be pants-shittingly cool. Also, I was thinkin that mechs could turn faster than a tank with independent treads cuz it could pivot on one foot and spin with the other. This would go faster than a tan with independent treads, because it still can't turn on a dime even whilst it is stopped, cuz the treads have more surface area on the ground, so it has to pull a Uey.

The Zoids Caotic Century and the Zoids/Zero series are really good examples of what your talking about. Sorry, I'm a huge anime fan, I just know this stuff. :brow:

Madprofessor9

2003-01-31, 07:57 AM

Personally I'm a big mech fan my self nothing like a 1 to 7 meter tall walking beer can with a nice compliment of armor and guns to do the job. But I personally think the maxs are well suited to take the quote the mech role as they will mostlikly be hard to kill and sport some extremely devasting weapons at that. So really there small mech in them selves :) anyway they will most likly be used as for mech roles anyway armor and guns of a small tank and versitility of a infantry unit I think they came up with a cool concept and look forward to fighting againest them in PS :)

Moloch

2003-01-31, 05:34 PM

uh, a meter is: "the base unit of length in the International System of Units that is equal to the distance traveled by light in a vacuum in 1/299,792,458 second or to about 39.37 inches"

so ine meter is about 3 feet. Not a big mech if bya ask me. 7 meters, maybe, but 1-7, could be 6 feet, not that tall for a mech

Madprofessor9

2003-02-01, 05:02 PM

That you are correct
I was just rambling I appreciate the correction :)
a meter is a little close to 3.1 feet and I agree wouldn't poss much of a psycological threat I shoulda said something more along the lines of 3-7 meters hahaha I don't know where the 1 meter came from :) I wasn't thinking
again thanks for the correction :)

Moloch

2003-02-01, 05:13 PM

thats what i thought, I was just being a nitpicky asshole for fun :D

Flameseeker

2003-02-01, 05:56 PM

I believe ships will be added before Mechs. I read that they "will work on water battles after it is released." I think they also need a empire-specific aircraft. An energy-based all around fighter for Vanu. An AA NC with a big gun. And a AG Republic Bomber.

Madprofessor9

2003-02-01, 06:34 PM

// thats what i thought, I was just being a nitpicky asshole for fun //

LOL no prob its good to be one everyonce in a while :D
hahah

SandTrout

2003-02-01, 07:08 PM

Originally posted by Flameseeker
I think they also need a empire-specific aircraft. An energy-based all around fighter for Vanu. An AA NC with a big gun. And a AG Republic Bomber.

I'd have a hard time dissagreeing with you more.

BFGs don't work well against aircraft because planes are fast and menuverable. Ground targes will have harder armor, and move slower so the NC's "Bigger is better" polocy would work better as the bomber. NC will likely get the heavy gunship of the game. Think A-10

Rate of fire is major issue against aircraft however because you can afford a few misses. A TR specific air-craft would likely feature a few chainguns and small rockets. Think Apache.

The VS's reliance on menuverablility and speed would likely land them an air-supitiority fighter. It would probably be the fastest, most menuverable vehicle in the game and sport some pulsar-type guns, and maybe some AA missles. Think F-22 minus the stealth.

Moloch

2003-02-01, 08:23 PM

the A-10 has a 30mm rotary chaingun on the front that fired uranium slugs, one of the best air-to-air weapons used on aircraft before we became too reliant on missiles. It also carried etiher anti-tank rockets and such. Its speed and maneuverability (being a 2 engine airplane) would make its PS equivalent basically a mix of all the empires, and would be essentially the reaver.

Flameseeker

2003-02-01, 08:37 PM

Mosquito- Think Predator Drone. :) I want NC to have the fast, powerful fighter! :ncrocks: The Reaver would not be an A-10, an A-10 is built around the Gatling gun. The Reaver's gun is mainly going to be anti-infantry and anti-air support. It's based on the missiles. Like the F-4. BTW my favorite plane would be the F-15 Eagle. Those are sweet.

SandTrout

2003-02-01, 09:01 PM

I was trying to make real-world analogies. The A-10 is an Air-to-surface aircraft, like I would immagine an NC specific vehicle would be.

SandTrout

2003-02-01, 09:05 PM

BTW, is it just me or does the NC lean majorly toward anti-tank tactics?

We've got the rocket buggy which is fast, decently armored, and blows shit up.

There's the Vangaurd with the biggest honking gun in the game. How can you NOT call it a tankbuster?

We also have the most powerful empire specific AV weapon, the Phoenix, and our AV MAX is a larger version of the TR stiker.

Madprofessor9

2003-02-02, 01:26 AM

Rgr that on the a-10. Being a flying tank, pilots are housed in a 6 inch thick titanium tub. The plane its self is a gun its basicly a titanium and steel mix body wraped around a huge GAU-8 30mm gatling system with 3000 rd magzine. A mixture of uranium tiped phopherus/uranium tiped High explosive/and uranium tiped high explosive incenerary. The term for this configuration most the time is known as the Multi Pack configuration. Rate of fire 1800 rounds a min. can pack a devastaing punch be nice to see this gun on a reaver :). A-10's are also known for being very tough. I know a sitation where a single a-10 took 2 hits from Sa-3 SAM (Surface to air) missiles 1 missile hit the left wing putting a big hole in it. the second missle hit one the engines damaged the engine but the engine chewed up the debris after wards and fired right back up. and the last sa-3 was a dud lodging itself in the back of the a-10's read side panel and stuck there until the pilot landed then it droped straight to the ground talk about one tough plane. Or lucky pilot not sure which :). Any one know what kinda chaingun is on the reaver is it a 20mm chaingun or the light rotary 12mm chain gun like the mosquito? :)

Sputty

2003-02-02, 02:01 AM

It's probably a little larger. Notice in vehicles the Reaver is said to have a "rotary chaingun" while the skeeter(Haven't sued that in awhile) has a "light rotary chaingun"

Madprofessor9

2003-02-02, 02:22 AM

rgr that I saw that also I just wasn't sure if it was a typo or not
I figure the reaver is more on the role of a AV Aircraft which means most likly it would have a gun more suited for damaging armored units
:)

Sputty

2003-02-02, 02:33 AM

Yeah, seems like that. They jsut go forthe biggest, most powerful gun though. I think the NC will have a major advantage at the start but after the Vanguard TKs half of his squad people will learn to pull back in the NC.

Madprofessor9

2003-02-02, 03:11 AM

Rgr that. People seem to think just because I'm NC I'm going to run in guns blazing. A Stealthy Reaver using hills and what ever other terrian to my advantage will be A big part of my flying tactics I'm come from a long line of helicopter sims as well as having over over 500 hours in various helicopter in rl. To just go running in guns blazing :) and most NC commanders might actually be tactical ones we won't know til we experiance it all in the game. :)
:D but no matter how good or bad they are at tactics. I will know how to approach different situations.
stealth + big guns = Deadly
heheh