I have a simple fix for getting rid of TKers...

[SquirrelMan]

remove friendly fire. That's it. I don't see any downside to it, and it would get rid of TKers, as their shots do no damage.

[321]

I don't like the idea because friendly fire adds to the game a lot. For example with no friendly fire plasma grenades would be eveywhere and peopel surging like crazy shooting everywhere.

[kreeten]

Nah, friendly fire must remain, takes away an important element of reality.

[Seer]

Habitual TK'ers are barely a problem in planetside--you're proposing to solve a problem that doesn't really exist. FF adds a lot to the game.

[Otherick]

yep, people like it was put runing around shooting everyone. I dont see the point with out FF

[Diddy Mao]

Certain weapons should not inflict damage like on friendlies. Like the "Thumper" it should eithe a) not cause grief b) not do damage to friendlies.

[Krinsath]

Friendly fire is needed for the area effect weaponry. Simple as that.

I think the grief system should be ajusted so that it won't count damage done to a friendly within a certain amount of time of hitting an enemy. For example, a plasma grenade is fired down the hallway with 3 second fuse...idiot surgemonkey runs down hallway firing HA and is hit when the grenade goes off, but so are 2 enemy soldiers...system only gives 1/4 grief as it normally would, as you shouldn't fire with friendlies around, but you were evidently aiming at the enemy.

Also, make the penalties for killing teammates when there's *nobody* around a lot higher. If you're at a base hack and the enemies in SOI is 0-1, then TKing somebody brings a penalty towards the hundreds, unless they're in your squad as usual (if you squad with them, they're your problem ;) ).

My input on the matter.

[Firefly]

These are the same monkeys saying that the Lasher is fine the way it is. Yet they whine about the Thumper.

Friendly fire is what prevents true "spamming".

[Krinsath]

What's your issue with the Lasher Firefly? Outside of the lash behind/through walls bugs that need tweaking...

But Firefly did hit the nail on the head...if there's no friendly fire, why not just get a bunch of guys with thumpers spamming plasma grenades all day long? Those things are lethal if you get hit by 3 or 4 at once...and with the 24 to an ammo box, they could hold a tower for a very long time. Guys would just run up the stairs with fresh thumpers since they're not affected by the plasma storm while any enemy that tried to stop them would be flash-fried. Once the new guys show up, the originals run down, get more thumpers, run back up. Lather, rinse, repeat.

THAT is why we have friendly fire, so that goofy tactics like that aren't put out there.

[Firefly]

My issues with the Lasher are well-documented. My issues with the lack of attention paid to paying customers is also well-documented. This single issue is the sole reason that many MANY good, loyal players and paying customers are simply quitting.

For this reason, and for the reasons of the empire-hopping FairWeather Johnsons who I utterly lack even the most simplest shred of respect for, I am instituting a movement called BOYCOTT THE VANU. Yes, it's all caps for a reason. It's my safe alternative to quitting.

As of this moment, I am declaring myself a Conscientious Objector.

I will no longer take up arms against the Vanu Sovereignty. Ever. Not as long as the Lasher has a "No-Lash-Friendlies" effect and as long as it's drastically overpowered. As long as the Vanu have a significant portion of the population, I will not fight the Vanu. I will not retreat, I will not turn tail and run, and I am not a coward. They can have my property and my lands on Ceryshen, Ishundar and Forseral. I will gladly give it to them without a fight, like the French.

But unlike the French, who rolled over and died and allowed brutes and beasts to live in their homes and on their lands, I will not tolerate closet-Vanu and half-Vanu in my outfit or among my friends. VS who are also TR or NC are scum of the earth. The Empire-hopping garbage needs to go. That's why the Vanu are winning. Every time they get on a crushing streak, the cowards and XP-whores and the powergaming kiddies go run and switch sides, abandoning the TR and the NC. THIS is why I am against dual-empire characters in the outfit. I don't trust halfway halfhearted cowards. I do not want to fight with them, I would rather they stay out of my empire and this outfit, I would rather put them in my gunsights than let them sit next to me.

The Vanu are cockroaches and I will not help them. The Lasher is the reason they flock to the XP like crows on a dead animal. For this reason, because every stinking Vanu player has one, I am no longer going to pay to play this game so I can get my ass kicked by the Vanu. I will get my $12.99 a month's worth by fighing the NC. If I am getting double-teamed on Ishundar by VS and NC, I will turn around and go to an NC-only continent.

I will not feed the Vanu Sovereignty the XP they need to be BR20/CR5. If you're in my squad, feel free to leave it when you see the Vanu, if you plan on staying to fight. Because you'll be fighting without me, and I am taking myself elsewhere. I am not a porn star (anymore) and I am not sandwich meat- I will not be double-teamed on my gaming dollar. This is my hard-earned money and I am no player's bitch. I will fight on my terms, to have fun and fun alone.

Join me in BOYCOTTING THE VANU. It may not send a message, but Vanu will not level up on my cash. I am not quitting the game when I can still fight the NC. I will face a thousand screaming NC with surgile Jackhammers before I face one more Vanu Lasher. This is my solemn vow as a man of honor and integrity. I will not fight those teal-Barney SOBs anymore. Ever.

[SilverLord]

My issues with the Lasher are well-documented. My issues with the lack of attention paid to paying customers is also well-documented. This single issue is the sole reason that many MANY good, loyal players and paying customers are simply quitting.

For this reason, and for the reasons of the empire-hopping FairWeather Johnsons who I utterly lack even the most simplest shred of respect for, I am instituting a movement called BOYCOTT THE VANU. Yes, it's all caps for a reason. It's my safe alternative to quitting.

As of this moment, I am declaring myself a Conscientious Objector.

I will no longer take up arms against the Vanu Sovereignty. Ever. Not as long as the Lasher has a "No-Lash-Friendlies" effect and as long as it's drastically overpowered. As long as the Vanu have a significant portion of the population, I will not fight the Vanu. I will not retreat, I will not turn tail and run, and I am not a coward. They can have my property and my lands on Ceryshen, Ishundar and Forseral. I will gladly give it to them without a fight, like the French.

But unlike the French, who rolled over and died and allowed brutes and beasts to live in their homes and on their lands, I will not tolerate closet-Vanu and half-Vanu in my outfit or among my friends. VS who are also TR or NC are scum of the earth. The Empire-hopping garbage needs to go. That's why the Vanu are winning. Every time they get on a crushing streak, the cowards and XP-whores and the powergaming kiddies go run and switch sides, abandoning the TR and the NC. THIS is why I am against dual-empire characters in the outfit. I don't trust halfway halfhearted cowards. I do not want to fight with them, I would rather they stay out of my empire and this outfit, I would rather put them in my gunsights than let them sit next to me.

The Vanu are cockroaches and I will not help them. The Lasher is the reason they flock to the XP like crows on a dead animal. For this reason, because every stinking Vanu player has one, I am no longer going to pay to play this game so I can get my ass kicked by the Vanu. I will get my $12.99 a month's worth by fighing the NC. If I am getting double-teamed on Ishundar by VS and NC, I will turn around and go to an NC-only continent.

I will not feed the Vanu Sovereignty the XP they need to be BR20/CR5. If you're in my squad, feel free to leave it when you see the Vanu, if you plan on staying to fight. Because you'll be fighting without me, and I am taking myself elsewhere. I am not a porn star (anymore) and I am not sandwich meat- I will not be double-teamed on my gaming dollar. This is my hard-earned money and I am no player's bitch. I will fight on my terms, to have fun and fun alone.

Join me in BOYCOTTING THE VANU. It may not send a message, but Vanu will not level up on my cash. I am not quitting the game when I can still fight the NC. I will face a thousand screaming NC with surgile Jackhammers before I face one more Vanu Lasher. This is my solemn vow as a man of honor and integrity. I will not fight those teal-Barney SOBs anymore. Ever.Damn...

:clap:

Fix the Lasher!!!

[JakeLogan]

Only reason I think FF should stay is due to the fact you sometimes get a fucktard that tries to kill a gen in a base that is hacked and secured so that their ant will put more juice in making them get more exp. I've seen it done during the asshole days of Enclave.

[Krinsath]

My issues with the Lasher are well-documented. My issues with the lack of attention paid to paying customers is also well-documented. This single issue is the sole reason that many MANY good, loyal players and paying customers are simply quitting.

To leave because of a slight (and undoubtedly temporary) imbalance is arguably as childish as leaving because someone called you a mean name. "Things aren't the way I want them to be, so I quit"...essentially. Sure, they're paying money so they shouldn't be frustrated, but at the end of the day it is just a game. I get smacked around by every weapon in the game (more than I'd like to admit), yet I'm not stomping away because at it's core I like PS, and I like the challenges that it presents. Things won't always be 100% equal, that's life. The Devs are doing the best they can to work things out, but such things take time to ensure they get done right and without negatively impacting the game in other ways. Problem with the Lasher was it was "buffed" at the same time the other HAs were "nerfed"...so the less-literate amongst us ran in droves to the new super-weapon, which the Lasher is far from.

For this reason, and for the reasons of the empire-hopping FairWeather Johnsons who I utterly lack even the most simplest shred of respect for, I am instituting a movement called BOYCOTT THE VANU. Yes, it's all caps for a reason. It's my safe alternative to quitting.

As of this moment, I am declaring myself a Conscientious Objector.

Hey, it's your dime, play how you want to.

I will no longer take up arms against the Vanu Sovereignty. Ever. Not as long as the Lasher has a "No-Lash-Friendlies" effect and as long as it's drastically overpowered. As long as the Vanu have a significant portion of the population, I will not fight the Vanu. I will not retreat, I will not turn tail and run, and I am not a coward. They can have my property and my lands on Ceryshen, Ishundar and Forseral. I will gladly give it to them without a fight, like the French.

The "No-Lash-Friendlies" has been in there since sometime during beta, and you're NOW complaining about it? Where were these complaints when the Lasher was the lame duck of the HA world? You want a rationale for it? Here ya go: The armors of the different empires are all of different compositions, but the same across the individual empires due to the techniques of manufacturing with Vanu technology (that's Vanu the race, not VS the empire). The Lasher is keyed into the armor, so that the composition of that armor will not react with the electrical field that surrounds the orb (the "Lash" effect). Hence, when the orb passes by a friendly, there is no circuit made as the electrical field is a relative neutral to that armor. This is also why you are lashed then hit by the orb, the circuit is created before the orb itself arrives there.

And overpowered? In certain situations perhaps, but that's true of all the HA's. Yesterday I killed a Rexo Lasher user at close range with a sniper rifle and a repeater...neither of them terribly impressive weapons in CQB. I've used the Lasher and often get beaten out by MCGs that use cover and tactics. In a straight knife fight, the MCG will win in a hallway fight. The VS just make sure they're defended and waiting when it comes to the hallway. Therein lies the difference.

The VS MAXes are actually far more effective than the Lasher is. Go into VR, find a cluster of 8 guys or so, and try to take them out with a Lasher. It'll take three or four clips and a lengthy chunk of time. The Quasar will do the same damage, faster, on less shots at a greater range. In terms of straight weapons performance, the Quasar is more powerful.

But unlike the French, who rolled over and died and allowed brutes and beasts to live in their homes and on their lands, I will not tolerate closet-Vanu and half-Vanu in my outfit or among my friends. VS who are also TR or NC are scum of the earth. The Empire-hopping garbage needs to go. That's why the Vanu are winning. Every time they get on a crushing streak, the cowards and XP-whores and the powergaming kiddies go run and switch sides, abandoning the TR and the NC. THIS is why I am against dual-empire characters in the outfit. I don't trust halfway halfhearted cowards. I do not want to fight with them, I would rather they stay out of my empire and this outfit, I would rather put them in my gunsights than let them sit next to me.

As is readily evidenced by my signature, I play multiple empires...all of them, actually (my VS characters are not in outfits, hence I can't get the cool stat buttons). I have rarely played my VS characters since the Lasher changes mainly because so many people are playing the VS. I prefer to be on the side that's underpowered, as that side is the one who makes the REAL XP. The NC, for instance, are currently one of the biggest XP mills ever, even with the JH being nerfed to the point of uselessness. My NC characters have more success than any other empire to date, mainly due to the target-rich environment. The powergamers and XP whores tend to be really bad players who die easily, hence their need for better weapons. Easy kills are easy XP, and nobody accounts for more easy kills than the VS. I welcome seeing the barneys, unless I'm a pilot.

The Vanu are cockroaches and I will not help them. The Lasher is the reason they flock to the XP like crows on a dead animal. For this reason, because every stinking Vanu player has one, I am no longer going to pay to play this game so I can get my ass kicked by the Vanu. I will get my $12.99 a month's worth by fighing the NC. If I am getting double-teamed on Ishundar by VS and NC, I will turn around and go to an NC-only continent.

There are 2 problems with the VS right now (outside of the bugs that are being remedied):

1) Their inventory advantage with the Lasher being able to hold twice the reloads of almost any other weapon of it's class.

2) The fact that their other weapons are so useless as to leave the Lasher as the only viable alternative. The Pulsar is crap, the Beamer is crap, the common pool weapons all suck for stand-up firefights. What option are the VS left with BUT the Lasher?

Give the VS another viable infantry weapon, fix the inventory imbalance (simple fix: lasher gets 50 shots, takes 2 shots to fire an orb) and you'll see the numbers of Lashers drop.

Fix the TR MAXes (i.e. - give them a not suicide special ability), and swap the JH and Sweeper pellet spreads. Viola! 99% of balance problems solved.

I will not feed the Vanu Sovereignty the XP they need to be BR20/CR5. If you're in my squad, feel free to leave it when you see the Vanu, if you plan on staying to fight. Because you'll be fighting without me, and I am taking myself elsewhere. I am not a porn star (anymore) and I am not sandwich meat- I will not be double-teamed on my gaming dollar. This is my hard-earned money and I am no player's bitch. I will fight on my terms, to have fun and fun alone.

Hey, it's the guys you squad with's problem...the NC have been on the brunt of dozens of TR/VS double teams (read: Cyssor) and yet you complain about the NC and the VS doing the same thing?

Join me in BOYCOTTING THE VANU. It may not send a message, but Vanu will not level up on my cash. I am not quitting the game when I can still fight the NC. I will face a thousand screaming NC with surgile Jackhammers before I face one more Vanu Lasher. This is my solemn vow as a man of honor and integrity. I will not fight those teal-Barney SOBs anymore. Ever.

A man of honor refusing a challenge? Hmmmm. Interesting. As I said, you're the one paying the money, so play how you like...I just find the whole thing bizarre that you get that worked up about a *game*...yes, things aren't perfect at the moment, but you either pay your money and believe that the Devs will take care of things (they are already moving the minimum lash distance back up, which will solve the aura of invulnerability around the Lasher user...the primary problem) or you quit and find something else to do. Up to you.

[SilverLord]

The Enclave is a really good outfit. Yes, they do stupid things but they are a good outfit. Their leader, BuzzCutPsycho is stupid and does really weird things but he knows his stuff.

The big main outfits I've seen is The Enclave, =C22=-K, and us Shadow Dynasty.

[Krinsath]

Hey, don't forget the Enforcers. :p We're day one and damned good too. RoadRunner707 kicks all ass as a pilot, and we've got one of the best sniper corps in the Republic :D (Maybe not, but that's what we'll tell everyone ;))

[SilverLord]

I haven't seen you guys in ages...

[Firefly]

I agree that quitting is childish. That's why I propose the BOYCOTT THE VANU! alternative. I'm not the only one that feels that way, which means I am justified in feeling the way I do.

I have always complained about the Lasher and its lack of friendly-fire grief. No other weapon boasts that ability, and if it were a standard clause for the VS empire as a major technology (not being able to kill friendlies in battle is a serious boon) and were in all their weapons, then sure. But that gives the Lasher two special features. One, it lashes out at anything along its trajectory. Bad enough, but fair enough. But then it also does not kill friendlies. That makes two.

I have always complained about empire-swappers. Give me loyal troops who want to kick the shit out of the enemy and we've got an unstoppable force. Introduce the ability to go turn around and play someone else that is winning easily, and you've introduced a new element that makes loyalty and comradeship available only amongst the troops who want to play that way. I am one of them, and I will surround myself with like-minded individuals to preclude the chance of one of my battle buddies turning tail and coming back with his VS or NC that knows exactly where I am.

You're fucking crazy if you think the Lasher is not over-balanced right now. Anyone who denies this is simply deluding themselves to make up for whatever inadequacies they feel as a player. When suddenly the VS populations grow to ten percent the size of the other two empires, and as a result everyone wearing teal and purple have a Lasher, then you're denying it to try and justify your winning. If you have to justify winning, then you earned a cheap win and you have subconscious guilt for it.

I don't care what the justification for No-lashing is. I don't roleplay in FPS and I don't play SWG. Tell the story to someone else. If it were a big technological advance it'd be on other Vanu weapons if they cared about backstories and all that garbage.

I could care less about NC and VS double-teaming. When the populations are balanced, there aren't traitor cowards hopping around to different empires, and when the Vanu don't have an impressive weapon in the hands of an overstrength population, then the pops are balanced and we can double-team and tag-team cornhole-roger each other all day. If it's VS and NC versus TR during that time, so what. The population caps don't mean jack to me, except that when the three major battle grounds are locked out, the excess is going elsewhere- meaning, the side who has an undeniable advantage in terms of numbers is going to dominate. That's fine- I play TR because I play the game on Hard. But come on- why are you going to sit there and say "Hey NC, the TR are getting smoked by the Vanu on three continents, let's go join them!" Why not take the tactical and strategic road and steal THEIR turf? They have more players than you- do you really want to be sitting there fighting over TR lands with the VS, when they can now apply their dominant forces to your backyards? It's self-destruction, because now you're going to get the shit end of the stick.

I'm not refusing a challenge. That's not a challenge, it's slaughter. I don't pay for this game and all the things I need to play it, to get pissed off at this shit. It ceases to be a challenge when fifty Lashers can take out an entire army. That's just bullshit, and I'm not going to increase my respawn by five seconds every time I die so that in five minutes it takes me an hour to respawn. That's gay as hell and I won't pay for that sort of "fun".

I'll take my fight to the NC, and if the Vanu show up that isn't my fault. That means they're coming for the NC and sooner or later the NC will *HAVE* to fight the Vanu... ironic since they've been butt buddies the entire time.

I can't justify why TR was on Cyssor with the Vanu, when we couldn't take Forseral, Ishundar and Ceryshen. I don't like playing home defense, but when we have two bases total? I'll be on Home-D. So thus I fail to understand what moron was fighting it up on Cyssor when we can't even hold a handful of bases on one of three bases. And my fellow commanders were wondering the same thing last night, when we had a handful of bases on four different continents.

THAT is what prompted me to come up with BOYCOTT THE VANU! Because I am sick and tired of being pinched between the Vanu and the NC. Call me a bitch, call me a whiner. My views on complaining are this: cry and moan about the problem, or do something about it. Don't point out the problems if you don't have a solution.

This is my solution. I pay for this game, I play this game to have fun. I pay for fun. So I am taking my fun to strictly-NC areas. If that makes me a lamer or a crybaby or a child, so be it. I'll be living it up having fun where there are no Lashers, relishing in the oceanfront view from whatever formerly-blue base I was just at.

[SecondRaven]

We need Freindly Fire by far, if we did not have it then you would be seeing tank shells spaming everywhere with no reguard to people

[BadAsh]

FF is important and it needs to stay or the game will be come plasma and vehicle weapon spam combat.

As for the lasher...

Am I the only one finding this whole thing amusing? Where were the "buff the VS" rants when the VS clearly had the worst pistol, MA, and HA.... AND consistantly the lowest population?

Personally I feel the buffed Lasher is mostly hype anyway. The main problem with it is that it's the only useful weapon the VS have other than the Sweeper. Of the two which just got buffed and what just got nerfed? So right there tells you what people will use. Also, the Lasher is as good as the MCG and almost as good as the JH now, so it's like a new toy. Many people will flock to what's new and so there you have it in a nutshell.

Why do you die to lashers more now? Two reasons:

1. Population shift from NC-TR-VS to VS-NC-TR
2. With no viable alternative the VS hordes tote the Lasher.

So when you attack that tower where there used to be 2 guys with lashers there are now 4. Your getting owned by a Lasher odds just doubled for that reason alone.

I got a TR and NC character to BR20 and so started a VS character before the announcement or implimentation of the new buffs. I was about BR15 or 16 when it happened and honestly it's not that much more effective. The CQB lashing is OK and the 5 extra shots per clip are nice, but my kill rate is about the same. No dramatic increase. Good MCG, JH, Gauss, Cycler, and Sweeper users can still take me down depending on whom got the jump on whom...

And when playing NC and TR I still pretty much own lasher users as I did before especially when it's 1v1 or 2v1. Usually now it's more than that... because now you see 8 Lashers defending a back door to a base, where before it was always 3-4. 8 is MUCH harder.

Side note:

Of the 3 HA I like the Lasher the best even before the minor buff it got. It's be best at suppression fire, it's got a minor splash damage type effect, it's the best anti-max HA because you don't have to carry/change ammo types, and it's the best anti-SpitFire HA. Trying to kill a Spit with the MCG or JH will get ya killed. The Lasher owns that deployable.

So while it's not as effective against infantry as the MCG or JH it's all around usefullness is nice. Finally the famed "versatility" of the VS actually came through :)

PS: If you duel you'll know 1v1 the Lasher blows... Cyclers, Sweepers, Gauss Rifles, and of course the MCG and JH routinely smack down the Lasher. Even a Punisher with 1 Plasma grenade loaded will kill a Lasher 1v1 the vast majority of the time.

[Firefly]

Where was I when the VS had shitty equipment? I was too busy protesting the complete array of shitty equipment that the TR since retail launch has had, have had, and will continue to have.

Where was I? I was too busy focusing on my own Empire's shortcomings and trying to circumvent that by creating a better sense of leadership and organization, and fighting to overcome the the bad reputation that the previous leader gave our alliance.

Where was I when the VS had shitty MA, pistols, and all that jazz? Obviously I was way too busy with my own empire, concerned about the sell-outs and the TK'ers and the rampant stupidity and idiocy, and working hard to find the source and eradicate it or improvise-adapt-and-overcome that problem.

But I cannot ignore this now, because TR have no bases left and there are nothing but purple TR-eaters with their Lasher crawling over the continents I spent hours trying to defend, with no success.

The challenge, which I was asked about, is in playing TR. I said it before and I will continue to say it. I play TR because I play the game on Hard.

[Onizuka-GTO]

Well playing Vanu use to be a challenge, but its okay now. I like to think its because I have gotten better.
And im seeing more purple comrades, which is a good thing.
To be honest, I think its more evenly balanced now.
I thinks it unfair for you to say all those things about the Vanu, we use to struggle alot, but i like it and i think i will not change to another empire anytime soon.
Just because we finally have a slight improvement, and the sudden inrush of former NC gloryseekers doesn't mean we need to be nerfed.
We finally got our deserved tweak, after having the worse weapons.
I'm sure the TR will soon get a deserved tweak too, and i won't be any doubt there will be a NC & VS Firefly saying exactly what you will be saying too.

[BadAsh]

I have always complained about the Lasher and its lack of friendly-fire grief. No other weapon boasts that ability...

No other weapon lashes.

But then it also does not kill friendlies. That makes two.

To clear the confusion here... the Lasher does not lash at friendly targets. Orbs that hit friendlies do damage and can wound/kill... it's easier to get grief with the lasher than the MCG or JH because of the orb travel speed. Once you unleash a stream of orbs you can't stop them if a friendly walks into your line of fire. With the JH and MCG you simply stop firing and stop getting grief.

[Acaila]

VS used to be the common pool empire, add FF to the Lash and they will become the weapons lock empire.

[Firefly]

And im seeing more purple comrades, which is a good thing.
To be honest, I think its more evenly balanced now.
I would hardly call 40 percent versus thirty percent and thirty percent evenly balanced. You might call it even, but you're Vanu and I don't expect you to agree with me, simply because of that single fact.

I thinks it unfair for you to say all those things about the Vanu, we use to struggle alot, but i like it and i think i will not change to another empire anytime soon.
Again, You might think it's unfair but you're Vanu and you benefit from this, so I don't expect you to agree with me.

Just because we finally have a slight improvement, and the sudden inrush of former NC gloryseekers doesn't mean we need to be nerfed.
I'm not calling for a nerf. I am calling for a FIX. There's a difference.

We finally got our deserved tweak, after having the worse weapons.
That's great, I am glad for you and the Vanu. Honestly. So will you be glad when the TR finally gets a fix to its complete, 100-percent-across-the-pool shitty inventory? Because when they finally truly balance the game, our organization and determination are going to put all of you in your place.

By the way- the worse weapons are in the TR-specific area. Our tank is the worse possible combinations combined with the worst possible weaknesses combined with the worst possible empire "benefits". The Marauder used to be common on the battlefield because you could drive circles around a Vanguard and eat it alive with the Groundpounder. That weapon system sucks as a whole. All TR empire-specific vehicles require a third person to be remotely effective, something the other two empires don't need. One squad of Vanu or NC tanks has two more functional vehicles than a TR squad. And this rapid-fire low-damage shit means zilch against anything. Our MCG has one hell of a cone of fire (hell being the operative word), they changed all sorts of crap on it and ignored the one simple, logical fix- a tighter cone of fire. It fires the same ammo as an AMP, has medium range at best (which means jack and shit in CQB combat against a Jackhammer or Lasher), and could benefit from a Lasher-esque ammo boost and a non-Friendly-killing tweak as well, to make it balanced. The Repeater- well, it's slow to fire despite the TR use of "rapid-fire". The only good thing about this is range. Pistols are the bread and butter of infiltrators, which is what I play. Infiltrators make close-up kills as a rule and necessity. The AMP outstrips it because of its fast rate of fire, and CoF means squat at point blank range. The only weapon we have (in terms of empire-specific) worth a damn is the Cycler.

You guys had what, a shitty pistol and a shitty buggy? Hey- Threshers can still mow. Marauders just come to a plodding halt. And any troop worth his salt using a pistol better be using the AMP if he wants to kill. Unless he's NC and has that Mag-scatter... god that thing gives me a boner.

I'm sure the TR will soon get a deserved tweak too, and i won't be any doubt there will be a NC & VS Firefly saying exactly what you will be saying too
That's fine- bring it on. If their concerns are justified, I'll stand ready to back them if they are legitimate and logical. If not, I'll happily debate them and go toe-to-toe, blow-for-blow.

No other weapon lashes. [...] To clear the confusion here... the Lasher does not lash at friendly targets. Orbs that hit friendlies do damage and can wound/kill... it's easier to get grief with the lasher than the MCG or JH because of the orb travel speed. Once you unleash a stream of orbs you can't stop them if a friendly walks into your line of fire. With the JH and MCG you simply stop firing and stop getting grief.
Yes I am well aware of what the Lasher does. I know it hits targets and does damage. Read my lasher rants and you will see that I understand this. There is no confusion on this issue, I don't need it pointed out. That doesn't bother me- that's cool, that's great.

The Lasher is called the LASHER, not the "Orb-throwing doom-stick", because it causes damage along the projectile trajectory. It does not, however, lash friendly troops. It may damage one if it hits them, but so does any other weapon. Any other weapon (including other Vanu weapons) cause splash damage. So what if it becomes a grief machine? That's what the Pounder and Burster MAX were. We accepted that and we worked around it. It was a grief machine and we asked for that to stop and it's still a grief machine. We asked for it to be changed, maybe rocklets so it can be a potent AV weapon again. It's a grenade-lobbing piece of shit versus vehicles and now it doesn't even work against troops anymore either, unless you hit them dead on (like a Lasher) but it damages enemies and friendlies alike. That's why people abused the Burster- when you have unimax and two of them are shitty, you go with what works.

VS used to be the common pool empire, add FF to the Lash and they will become the weapons lock empire.
Welcome to the TR nightmare known as Pounder and Burster (before they uber-gimped us again). Either join the crowd, or fix it and shut up.

[SandTrout]

The lasher is good because unlike the other HA in the game, a periferal hit does not reduce the amount of damage flying through the air. An MCG can only throw out 1 bullet at a time, and the JH has a set amount of pelets in the shot. The lasher can get 5 periferal hits(at 1/3 damage each) and a dirrect hit for still full damage. However, this was countered by slow projectile speed and no lash within 5 meters.

The no lash within 5 meters also helped simulated the lack of area affected by the other HA at close range. You fire a JH over someone's shoulder at 2 meters you do no damage. Shoot a lasher over someone's shoulder at 2 meters, you did no damage. Now, though, the lasher will do 1/3 damage even if you're not pointed anywhere near the person.

[Veteran]

The lash does not harm friendly units.

It is the only HA to have an AI to determine whether it damages friendlies or not.

VS are spoiled. You'd think the color purple meant that you could toss your skill out the window and still hope to win.

Sorry, Barney.

[Krinsath]

The TR are underpowered, the vehicle situation is ridiculous and the MAX special ability is basically just making you a bigger target for no defensive trade off (only MAX that gives up offensive capability to use its special ability). The Striker lock-on bug is crippling, but it also affects the NC and VS to an extent as well.

Do I think the TR are not a viable empire? No, not in the slightest. My combined battle ranks across characters: TR - 34 (3 chars, average BR - 11.3), NC - 39 (4 chars, average BR - 9.75), VS - 29 (3 chars, average BR - 9.66). What do those numbers show me? That the TR, despite their disadvantages, STILL manage to compete. We're usually underpopulated, with underpowered weapons. When I play TR, I don't think my weapon is inherently inferior, just requires a bit more skill to ensure you're fighting on your terms. Cover, friendlies, all of these things boost your survivability.

Here's what I want to know, yesterday afternoon, the TR had 30% of the population, giving up our margin to the VS. The VS have six continents under lock, and the NC have two. The only fighting is on Forseral and Ceryshen. There are *no* TR poplocks, despite being zerged on both the fighting continents. WHY THE HELL WERE NO TR DROPPING BASES ON THESE LOCKED CONTINENTS TO OPEN THEM TO HART DROPS? If you can't fight the VS zerg, attack VS bases where the zerg is not. Drop a base near a WG to a NC locked continent, and now the response force has to decide between recalling, reforming and dropping onto a probably poplocked TR continent, or rolling forward into the NC and open up a new front.

This assumes of course that there was no anti-TR conspiracy among the VS and NC CR5s, but if that was the case...sorry, but you're going to lose no matter who you are. 65-70% of the population versus the remainder will be a losing battle no matter what you do.

Again, the major problem with the lasher is that it begins lashing right away. Many people go "So what?" but that's a corridor of 5m in *all* directions that it lashes in. So do the math, if you are standing next to, or behind the Lasher, you will still be lashed. Hence the problem. Stand behind the lasher and you'll be lashed 25 times by a full clip. That's the "aura of invulnerability" I was referring to. You can't get close because you get lashed no matter what. *That* is being fixed and it's the only change to the actual damage equation that the Devs made. Hence, the Lasher will cease to be overpowered once that patch goes in. It's not a permanent condition folks. For all the TR who are complaining, I'd like to point out that the NC have it far worse...your HA doesn't require being within 5m to be effective (exactly where the Lasher is currently too lethal).

[Veteran]

TR have been gimped for months.

It's crushing the game.

Fix it now or watch other games swallow PS' player-base.

And kick Raph Koster in the balls while you're at it. Sony is supposed to punish the weak. He's the king of the weak.

[SpunkJackel]

Man, after seeing posts that are so long and so passionate about things that only exist in a digital world. I am convinced that people much like the posters above may have broke into tears many times while playing his game and getting killed by other players.

[BadAsh]

Yes I am well aware of what the Lasher does. I know it hits targets and does damage. Read my lasher rants and you will see that I understand this. There is no confusion on this issue, I don't need it pointed out. That doesn't bother me- that's cool, that's great.

The Lasher is called the LASHER, not the "Orb-throwing doom-stick", because it causes damage along the projectile trajectory. It does not, however, lash friendly troops. It may damage one if it hits them, but so does any other weapon. Any other weapon (including other Vanu weapons) cause splash damage. So what if it becomes a grief machine? That's what the Pounder and Burster MAX were. We accepted that and we worked around it. It was a grief machine and we asked for that to stop and it's still a grief machine. We asked for it to be changed, maybe rocklets so it can be a potent AV weapon again. It's a grenade-lobbing piece of shit versus vehicles and now it doesn't even work against troops anymore either, unless you hit them dead on (like a Lasher) but it damages enemies and friendlies alike. That's why people abused the Burster- when you have unimax and two of them are shitty, you go with what works.


Welcome to the TR nightmare known as Pounder and Burster (before they uber-gimped us again). Either join the crowd, or fix it and shut up.

Ok, I see the point you are trying to make about the Lasher. In your post here you said it could not cause grief. So regardless what you said in other threads I feel that needed to be cleared up.

I also still do not agree with your point now that you have clearly expressed it for several reasons:

1. Grenage tossing weapons (Bursters, Pounders, and Thumpers) don't cause splash damage along the entire projectile trajectory. They only splash damage when the projectile detonates. So the shooter can control what area gets the splash damage. A Lasher does not have this control so anyone near him when firing would cause grief. That would make the weapon useless as was discovered in beta testing.

2. Grenades are much more effective at splash damage than lashing. If you don't believe me get on a base wall with a thumper and a lasher and see which weapon sucks and which one owns. The Lashing is just part of the weapons suppression fire role that helps make it unique and tried to compinsate for it not being as deadly 1v1 as other HA.

3. The TR splash damage MAX units suck. That does not mean the same logic that makes them suck should be applied to other things in the game. The TR MAX units need a fix. The Lasher does not need to be turned into a usless grief machine just because something else is (old pounder-now fixed kinda).

On the bright side the TR MAX Units got a needed tweak when the DC MAX went back to it's AI role. The Burster is a damn fine AA MAX and if used as such it's as deadly as anything can get in this game. The AV Pounder sucks, but so do all AV MAX units... the Pounder is the worst of the worst though... easily... gee a crappy splash damage MAX... you are suiting up for getting grief and your ass kicked. LOL As a rule of thumb I avoid all AV MAX units. Usually I only use AA... AA MAX Units own.

Anyway, as I said before the Lasher is a nice all around usefull weapon. It's good against MAX units, Spits, Infantry, and has a unique role of supression fire with it's lashing.

However, it's no MCG vs. MAX units when the MCG has AP rounds... 2 lasher clips = dead MAX... 75% of 1 MCG clip = dead MAX. And it's no MCG when used as AI at meduim range...

The Lasher is surely no JH at CQB range and is no JH vs. MAX Units if AP ammo is loaded...

Again, it's a nice all around useful weapon that's reasonably effective and can fill a variety of roles... It actually delivers on the fabled Vanu versitility empire characteristic.

[Krinsath]

Never been brought to tears, but my keyboard has borne the brunt of many an angry session (usually over the Starfire as a pilot...or the surgemonkeys). :)

All and all though, I think that just shows how much people WANT this game to succeed. Firefly and BadAsh and myself and others are just trying to get everything sorted out so that the game is fun for EVERYONE. Right now, most of the TR are *not* having fun, which is a shame because their reasons are temporary problems.

Still though, having people who care is never a bad thing...it's when posts like ours stop that you have to start worrying.

[JakeLogan]

The Enclave is a really good outfit. Yes, they do stupid things but they are a good outfit. Their leader, BuzzCutPsycho is stupid and does really weird things but he knows his stuff
I'm talking about when Enclave did really stupid shit like the konreid cease-fire on the night before the server merge. everyone else was getting along fine with no weapons fire then enclave comes along and bombs everyone. (more TR then VS and NC combined I might add) or when they would go into a base that was secure and start attacking the gen so they could drain it more so when their ant got there they would get more XP for filling it up. Thats the enclave I was talking about. Not the current Encalve that seems to be under control most of the time.

[Firefly]

The TR overcome their shitty weapons by smarter organization. We play smarter, and usually have to resort to guerilla operations. We had hoped yesterday (the 8th of March when we had one or two bases) that the VS would be spread thin defending eight continents.

They weren't.

I can't speak for the rest of the TR, but the outfits that Black Widow Company work with (mainly in ULTRA Alliance) generally work well as small teams. Cover and concealment, and making the enemy fight on their terms. We don't have nine thousand players, we're a relatively small outfit. So we don't field our own armies and we don't invite every No Outfit tag in the game, so we don't count as top-ten as we do not have the combined XP of outfits with 600 members. As a result, we have to either follow the zerg (which sucks because zerglings are generally stupid and prone to ADHD-TK symptoms) or we operate as a small strike force elsewhere.

Yesterday the TR had an underwhelming population on Emerald. Not only that, but the NC and Vanu specifically chose TR turf as their fighting place. Yes, we did see small TR actions on Cyssor toward the end of the evening, but no CR5 ever called that as a target. We could barely defend Ceryshen and Ishundar, and every time we did, we'd go back to secure one or the other, and someone would come in and start hacking again. There literally was no way to feasibly support actions elsewhere, and anything that was outside of the main combat areas would be crushed by opposition elsewhere.

[Onizuka-GTO]

Wow! Badash that was the best post I have seen today!
You go boy! :lol:

[Doop]

Huge backdoor battle. Your empire is trying to push through past the backdoor hall. All your enemies are using plasma Thumpers. I see a problem here.

[Firefly]

What problem do you see with that? I'm curious.

[Incompetent]

Meh, my opinion is that when the Lasher lashes someone, it should subtract that damage from the orb damage. So if the lasher does base 30 damage (theoretical numbers) and lashes for 5, for every person it lashes the orb should do five less damage when it hits. That prevents lasher from scaling quite as much, because while 1v1 or ever 2v2 it is relatively balanced, once you get 4-5 Lashers firing, its damn near impossible to kill one. Do that, and remove the lash under 5 meters, and it shouldn't be nearly as bad in groups.

Edit: and removing team damage would be retarded.

[Ouroboros]

Let us just remember that all HA weapons have had its time on the throne. In beta, the MCG was king, ripping apart people left and right, of course, this was no go for VS or NC, and was nurfed. After the release the NC managed to get the Jackhammer boosted and took the crown. And now, from what I have been reading, the VS is getting a turn at kingship. This doesn't worry me one bit, because I know kings will fall, hell, the MCG might get another chance at royalty.

[Queensidecastle]

Here is what needs to happen once and for all to even up the HA disparity:

Redesign the MCG and Lasher to both have viable secondary modes like the Jack. Give the MCG an increase in speed while in secondary that chews up the clip and is very inacurate (balance properly of course). Remove the lash from the Lashers main fire and make it part of a slower firing secondary mode that also chews up ammo.

Blam, problem solved.

No single thing in the history of Planetside has caused more strife and anger than Heavy Assault. It is criminal that the Devs have continuously propagated inequality in this weapon form in one way or another since release. Allowing the Jack to have a secondary mode while no other HA has had a user controlled alt method of fire except NC? WTF kind of logic is that? That is the kind of crap that has cause this whole mess and continues to propagate it. You want it to be Quake? Fuck it then, and just decide to do it right. The devs are the ones that decided that HA needed to be Instagibs, lets demand that they fix it for good.

They did a good job with MA and some other things. Use that as a springboard to get this weapon set fixed for good. No more excuses.

Sit down, take a month, work on this long and hard. Redesign each weapon and get it friken done right this time.

[Krinsath]

1) MCG does not need a secondary fire mode. It's a larger form of the Cycler and it functions as such. It needs a tight CoF when firing stopped from a crouch.

2) The Lasher needs to have it's inventory imbalance corrected and Lash restriction issues resolved.

3) JH needs a secondary fire mode, as otherwise it's a Sweeper with a worse pellet spread. I think they should take away the triple shot and swap the pellet spread between the Sweeper and the JH.

Ta-da. Much better balance without heavy recoding to give everything an alternative fire mode.

[Firefly]

I'm not looking for variations on the same theme either.

I protested the Jackhammer secondary mode because no other weapon had it. I protested the lack of Friendly-Lashing. I protested the MCG because they claim it's good from 30-50 meters, when the CoF doesn't even make it competitive at 10 meters.

What Krinsath said. Tighten the MCG cone of fire, and NOT just while kneeling. Nobody in their right mind stands still during a firefight. The TR MAX and the TR HA require perfect stillness for indoor effectiveness, which means you get chewed up by Lashers and Jackhammers because LIKE IT OR NOT, that's where the fighting is.

Leave the Jackhammer with its secondary. Leave the Lasher once it's fixed. And tighten the MCG cone of fire. That's all I'm saying anymore.

[Queensidecastle]

No, I am just tired of the bullshit. Redesign Heavy assault from the ground up and get it right this time.

Each weapon should have a secondary that maintains its current instagib status while sacrificing accuracy and ammo. Said secondary modes need to be strategic in use, specialized and not applicable in most situations. The current "secondary-like" effects of Heavy assault are just causeing problems and have been a big source of problems since the game when live. Lets just call a ***** a ***** and develop it properly

Create user selectable secondary modes if you want to have crap like "lashes" or just get rid of secondary modes and thier likeness alltogether since obviously the devs cannot properly balance it with the current method

They did it with the Maelstrom, now go fix the rest of them

[Firefly]

They did it with the Maelstrom, now go fix the rest of them
This brings to light a very interesting point.

The Maelstrom is a deadly weapon. I have not seen a weapon like it YET. I have never seen anyone in CQB take a serious Maelstrom user out. I also rarely see it on the battlefield. It's almost never used. Yet it's deadlier than any HA weapon out there, and it also seems balanced because there's nothing to compare it to.

Why don't they use that as a working example?

[Ouroboros]

the MCG CoF was extremely tight during Beta, and it was overpowered, that is why it is how it is now.