Question about Americans (NO FLAMING or else!)

[�io]

Ok i saw this and wondered :
WE SHOULD THROW UP A WALL AND LET THE WORLD ROT IN IT'S OWN SH*T. Every political thread I read has spinless people that really don't understand what they are saying..... this is NOT an OIL WAR, or a BUSH WAR, it is about the saftey of the world. If the rest of the world would have gotten off their collective asses instead baskin in their own complacancy then maybe the terroist cells would be less prevelent and other atrocisties in the world would be fewer in number. Fact is that most countries sit around and wait for the US to get around to helping them. We can't do it all and it is time other countries do their part as WORLD CITIZENS... Dammit you guys have me worked up.....

This is a serious question, i'm in no way trying to piss off or bitch about anything or anyone!

So keep it civil, respectful and intelligent. :)

[BLuE_ZeRO]

;)

[Manitou]

With great power comes great responsibility. Someone has to maintain the balance.

Does anyone have any other countries they would nominate for this duty?

[Hijinks]

Originally posted by Manitou
With great power comes great responsibility. Someone has to maintain the balance.

Does anyone have any other countries they would nominate for this duty?

I wish we would just acknowledge our empire status.

[BLuE_ZeRO]

The American Empire... has a nice ring to it :D

[Lexington_Steele]

Originally posted by BLuE_ZeRO
The American Empire... has a nice ring to it :D

And then they can't throw any Voltairesque quotes at us like, "The Holy Roman Empire was neither Holy, nor Roman nor an Empire."

[KoldFusion]

I'm sorry i posted that excerpt that dio put out... I was angry.... but it frustrates me b/c I feel honestly that our intentions are good and all we do is catch flak for it. Manitou is right.... noone else could do it. Sorry for that post again.. but it is how i feel.

[�io]

Like i said KoldFusion i'm in no way saying it was bad or wrong or whatever. It just got me wondering how the american people sees itself. Don't worry you're not the first too sound like that. :)

[Lexington_Steele]

I think that we can do whatever we want, but we should not think of ourselves as so righteous and noble.

Since we are on top of the pile we should also expect to take some extra grief for what we do. If a country sees the worlds hegemon flexing it's military power a great deal, it gets worried. It worries about how far the US is willing to go with that power. It will also do its very best to assist the international community in trying to check that hegemon's power.

[HotDogTommy]

Here's the way I see it. American people, for the most part, have an idea of what their country is. The rest of the world generally has a different idea. America just kind of reminds me of that kid that really thinks he's cool, but all the other kids are laughing at him behind his back.

[ABRAXAAS]

How about Canada just cuts off all the fresh watter.electricity,minerals.metal,trees and forestry products .
and we will see how long the states lasts behind its wall .

Canada and Russia are the 2 only countries in the world that are completely self sufficient ,if you put a bubble over the states it would fall appart . :D as powerful as the military is the US consumes to much for its own good.;)

[Incompetent]

Alaska ever ring a bell ABRAXAAS

I went for league of our own, its not really what i believe but its the closest and i completely glossed over the other button.

[BLuE_ZeRO]

Canada self sufficient? lmfao! you put a bubble over us and Canada becomes New New Mexico.

[Civilian]

I think we are worse than other countries because we feel we can do whatever we want. Our government holds economic prosperity over weaker countries and challenges them to defy us. Alot of people in this country believe we are invincible, if we continue down the current path, alot of people are going to see that we aren't.

[BLuE_ZeRO]

People don't think we can do whatever we want. We do what has to be done within reason. The fact that other countries don't like it is their fault. Other countries don't like the fact that we're taking steps to remove a terrorist leader from power... hmmm ok so we'll just leave someone who has the sanity of well... charles manson, in control of a country. Gotcha...

It's about time other countries got their heads out of their asses and realized that terrorism isn't going to just work itself out. We're taking steps to minimize terrorist attacks around the world because no one else will. We aren't flexing our muscle for the sake of just flexing muscle we're doing it to solve a global problem. The fact that the other countries realize it is just an example of how naive their leaders/people are. The sad thing is it's not only other countries.

We have some of that same naive thoughts running through people around our country as well. I was watching an interview at a college in my state right after the State of the Union address. A student said "Well it's obvious that Bush doesn't write his own speeches and uh I don't really agree with anything he's saying especially this war on Iraq, it's just pointless." I felt like jumping through the TV and beating his head in for being a damn idiot but I figured I probably shouldn't assault my precious tv.

In all seriousness though, terrorism is a problem that needs to be addressed now before it gets further out of hand much like Al Quaida did.

[Manitou]

Originally posted by ABRAXAAS
How about Canada just cuts off all the fresh watter.electricity,minerals.metal,trees and forestry products .
and we will see how long the states lasts behind its wall .

Canada and Russia are the 2 only countries in the world that are completely self sufficient ,if you put a bubble over the states it would fall appart . :D as powerful as the military is the US consumes to much for its own good.;)

:rolleyes:

Someone obviously has not done his homework before submitting his paper.

[Nohimn]

I think I should create a nation called Nohimnia where we will all isolate ourselves from society..... It will be in the middle of Brooklyn....

[Civilian]

Terrorism is absolutely a problem, but what does that have to do with Saddam Hussein? There isn't even one ounce of proof that Saddam Hussein has any connection to Al Qaeda or any other terrorist organization. This administrations justification for going to war is that they have weapons of mass destruction(which no evidence exists of), and while they are willing to go to war with Iraq, they are seeking a peaceful solution to a conflict with North Korea.

There is a small percentage of people in the middle east that think very highly of people like Bin Laden, because they believe that he is "the second coming" or a prophet fighting a holy war against the "evil Americans." Before the war in Afghanistan, Bin Laden spoke on Al Jazeera telling the people of the middle east that, if they allow America to attack Afghanistan they will go after Iraq and they will never leave. Those people won't forget that, and now it has come true.

If nothing more that for the sake of the people of Iraq, I am all for ousting Saddam Hussein. A ruthless dictator that could eventually threaten the world, but I WILL NOT sacrifice thousands of innocent lives to accomplish this goal. All peaceful solutions should be exhausted and war should ALWAYS be a last resort imo. For every 10 innocent civilian you kill in Iraq you will create at least as many terrorists. Destroying the Iraqi infrastructure accomplishes absolutely nothing, except to add-to the suffering of an already impoverished people and fuel the hate for Americans in the Middle East.

There are alot of hateful people in this country. If you are willing to allow large amounts of civilian casualties to kill one man, you are hateful, it's that simple. You say the people who are anti-war are naive, I say the people who take the governments word at face value, and don't believe this war isn't about oil or a revenge for the elder Bush, you are naive.

I am interested in doing what is best for human kind. There is a peaceful solution, and it isn't being sought. The Bush administration has made up their mind, we are going to war, and it is sad.

[BLuE_ZeRO]

SadDam is a very unstable leader and he does need to be removed but let's be realistic, he has terrorist ties and just about everyone knows it. Just like we knew that he had been developing nuclear weapons before we had sent in our "inspectors."

As for risking thousands of people to kill one man what are you talking about? You know as well as I do that SadDam's army isn't just going to step aside and let us capture him. He's not going to leave without putting up a fight. If we were just fighting against one man sure send in a few guys to take him out but we're not just fighting one man.

[Incompetent]

I WILL NOT sacrifice thousands of innocent lives to accomplish this goal Its a thousand now or a Million laterThere is a peaceful solution, and it isn't being sought No there isn't, he is a madman addicted to power and the suffering of his people and he doesn't give a shit what the rest of the world thinks, because he doesn't think we will actaully do anything.

It's not like his people give a shit what happens to him, they hate him more then anything in the world, but they are afraid of him. In the gulf war they had entire companies of Iraqi's surrenduring to fire teams when they thought they could escape Iraq.

[Nohimn]

nicely put Incompetent! AND ON TOP OF THAT, as I have said before, war=jobs=better economy, Bush is just seizing the opportunity. War is the solution to everyone's problem.

[Civilian]

Sadham is a very unstable leader and he does need to be removed but let's be realistic, he has terrorist ties and just about everyone knows it. Just like we knew that he had been developing nuclear weapons before we had sent in our "inspectors."

What do you mean we "know" he has terroist ties and nuclear weapons. You "know" it because your government tells, you believe it without any proof to back it up. That makes absolutely no sense. If a guy came up to you on the street and said your best friend is cheating with your girlfriend, would you just accept what he says at face value? No, you would want to know how he knows. Just "knowing" isn't an acceptable answer.

As for risking thousands of people to kill one man what are you talking about? You know as well as I do that Sadham's army isn't just going to step aside and let us capture him.

Obviously, and this will result in the deaths of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians.

[Incompetent]

What do you mean we "know" he has terroist ties and nuclear weapons. Well he pays suicide bombers families and Isreali inteligence has tracked several components used primarily for nukes to his country.
If a guy came up to you on the street and said your best friend is cheating with your girlfriend, would you just accept what he says at face value? If he was Isreali Intel, i would start looking for a new gf

[Civilian]

war=jobs=better economy

This isn't 1920. During war time, the military relies on manufacturing. Most manufacturing today is done overseas, it will have very little impact on our economy. The economy today relies on the markets and the markets do not like volatility, if we go to war the market loses ground and it can result in a triple-dip recession.

[Civilian]

It's not like his people give a shit what happens to him, they hate him more then anything in the world, but they are afraid of him. In the gulf war they had entire companies of Iraqi's surrenduring to fire teams when they thought they could escape Iraq.

That's not true, not anymore. The Kurds still have that hate for him, but 11 years of sanctions causing the deaths of countless numbers of Iraqis have instilled that American hatred in them. His military is loyal, and his people are much more loyal than they were during the gulf war.

[Incompetent]

No they are scared, acid torture and rape do not inspire loyalty, they inspire terror. How can you be loyal to someone who would give you a medal for shooting your own kid. Many Iraqi's who have escaped still wisper his name when they talk about him because they are afraid they are being watched.

[Lexington_Steele]

Originally posted by Incompetent
If he was Isreali Intel, i would start looking for a new gf

Now that is a bit biased. You don't think Israel might have something to gain by Saddam and Iraq losing power in the Middle East?

Saying that Israeli intel is the one who told you your girlfriend has been cheating on you, is like saying: Someone, who has been eyeing your girlfriend, told you that your girlfriend is cheating on you.

[Incompetent]

Well if he's such a damnably nice guy then why do they want him gone, oh wait, maybe because he pays the people that blow up in city squares

[Lexington_Steele]

And Sharon is such a Saint.

[Doobz]

its kinda funny how people say they want public proof.

they're trying to mount evidence right?

so if they make proof public (which im sure they do have non-public proof, classified or something cuz thats how governments work) what do you think happens to the proof?
saddam whips out a can of the good old proof-be-gone and claims we are warmongers seeing stuff that isnt there.
the point is if we make public the wrong type of proof, he can easily mount a political defense.
there is certain types of evidence that are suitable for making a public case against, stuff that saddam can't back out of or weasel his way out of. if u jump up and say look what i found on the first thing that shows, he defends and you end up looking like a fool.

in my opinion, the whole proof finding should have been done covertly, cold war style. theres enough unhappy scientists and other people over there to easily have added quite a few informers to the NSA payroll.

[BLuE_ZeRO]

Originally posted by Civilian
What do you mean we "know" he has terroist ties and nuclear weapons. You "know" it because your government tells, you believe it without any proof to back it up. That makes absolutely no sense.

No, you would want to know how he knows. Just "knowing" isn't an acceptable answer.


The government does tell us information but you're making it sound like everything they're saying is a lie. There is substantial proof to backup our reasons to go to war but for some reason people still want to deny the facts. They demand report after report after report and then when they finally get a report they sit on their asses and wait to decide on action. Sorry but the longer we wait the less chance there is of succeeding in our mission. You think Saddam doesn't know what we're planning on doing? The more we wait the more time he has to prepare and it's that cowardly mentality that you have shining through that gets more people killed. The more we wait the greater the chance that an increased number of people die. I don't think anyone would put detonating a nuke in the middle of say NYC by Saddam. I'm sure he would figure out a way to do it.

In this case Civilian knowing is an acceptable answer. You seem to think that Saddam is just going to sit on his thumb and wait for us to act. We've let this drag on long enough and Saddam is probably more than prepared.

It's almost like you think like we're dealing with a normal person. Saddam is a monster and anyone in their right mind KNOWS that.

[Hamma]

sigh..

[Navaron]

America is the lone superpower. We're the only one who's stood the test of time. We go out of our way to help every other country in the world, including Iraq, and we get bashed by everyone of them. It feels like to me, giving presents to step children who hate you.

We always are subject to the demand of the UN and little countries throught out the world - Kyoto treaty anyone? They all hate us and are jealous of us, and time and time again we save their asses. We're always there for them, but where are they when we need them? Dancing in the streets on September 11th. That's proof we are a just country. I know alot of other countries that would have not been nearly as tolerant.

It is good for the rest of the world we are so benevolent. I personally think we should abstain from the UN, and take our buildings back and let them try it themselves. Name one thing the UN has ever done to help the US? Where would they be without us? They wouldn't be able to ostricize us as well, because they wouldn't be able to afford the microphones.

We have allies that we do love and care passionately about, UK, Israel, Austrailia, and sometimes Canada. Almost all American's would fly to the aid of our fellow named allies. You know why, because, even though they don't have much to offer us, they still offer, and that means the world to us.

That is the opinion of one American.

[Bighoss]

Israel is like 50% of the reason we need to deal with this crap. Why are we allies with them ??? there irrelevant and honestly there ties to that land is so messed up. Honestly if I said god told me last night the he promised New York to me and I wrote a book about it I would go to a looney BIN ! Why do we give them money? we don't get anything in return and what I think is retarded is that we can give Israel a few billion dollars when we could use it really badly in America. Israel is the POODLE OF POODLE countries. They could never get along without us so we help them and now I get to worry about getting nuked in my own god damn home by somone we can't nuke back:)
This is not antisemitism I am allowed to voice my opionion about this country. Not once did I use the word *** except right here

heres a song that can sum up Americas problems:

No one likes us
I don't know why.
We may not be perfect
But heaven knows we try.
But all around even our old friends put us down.
Let's drop the big one and see what happens.

We give them money
But are they grateful?
No they're spiteful
And they're hateful.
They don't respect us so let's surprise them;
We'll drop the big one and pulverize them.

Now Asia's crowded
And Europe's too old.
Africa's far too hot,
And Canada's too cold.
And South America stole our name.
Let's drop the big one; there'll be no one left to blame us.

We'll save Australia;
Don't wanna hurt no kangaroo.
We'll build an all-American amusement park there;
They've got surfing, too.

Well, boom goes London,
And Paris.
More room for you
And more room for me.
And every city the whole wide world
Will just be another American town.
Oh, how peaceful it'll be;
We'll set everybody free;
You'll have Japanese kimonos, baby,
There'll be Italian shoes for me.
They all hate us anyhow,
So let's drop the big one now.
Let's drop the big one now.

[Sputty]

Originally posted by {BOHICA}Navaron
America is the lone superpower. We're the only one who's stood the test of time.
We have allies that we do love and care passionately about, UK, Israel, Austrailia, and sometimes Canada. Almost all American's would fly to the aid of our fellow named allies. You know why, because, even though they don't have much to offer us, they still offer, and that means the world to us.

That is the opinion of one American.
Nice of you to be so compassionate toward your friends Nav but I think U.S. still has a little bit to go before they've stood the test of time. Unless you mean a couple hundred years then you're right. Can't wait until...(insert country here) is the next superpower. Why can't I wait? I'm inpatient!

[Navaron]

"but I think U.S. still has a little bit to go before they've stood the test of time."

What I meant was that we are the lone superpower, the rest crumbled under the cold war.

"Israel is like 50% of the reason we need to deal with this crap. Why are we allies with them ??? there irrelevant and honestly there ties to that land is such bullshit"

Ignorance is bliss huh? Israel took over the whole damn mideast all the way to Egypt and then gave it back. I think kickin someone's ass and taking it is a pretty good claim, they should have kept it imo. We sure wouldn't have as many problems if they weren't so nice.

[Sputty]

Ok, Nav I stand corrected. Also, Canada feels the same ay, except some of your politicians piss me off. Who's the Nazi? I forget his name. He called Canada "a bunch of freeloaders". He's a super-nazi BTW, in a bad way. Not the friendly Mod Nazis we all love

[Mazelmavin]

I know several people that are convinced that the goverment (Bush) is lying about everything so that we can attack Iraq. Some of these poeple even believe Bush ordered the attack on the WTC!! Now I don't %100 trust the USA goverment. They have done should shady things in the past, but COME ON!!!

We have reports prooving that Iraq had weapons in the past. They did not show them or provide evidence of removal. As Bush said, when the inspectors come into your country you lay out your weapons for all to see, then destroy them. This did not happen. I could go on, but I will just be repeating the President.

And this thing about war as a last resort, not until all other options are exhausted. WHEN IS THIS GOING TO HAPPEN!! No matter what we do, no matter how nice we play, no matter how many diplomatic angles why try, there will always be some other option. Our options will never be exhausted. At some point we (as in the world) must say, "enough fucking around" and do SOMETHING. The longer we "exhaust options" the longer the collective madmen around the world have to prepare. And they are not just preparing to defend. The reports show proof of Iraq trying to get materials for a nuclear bomb WHILE BEING INSPECTED.

Go ahead and question the reports. Go ahead and insist that the government is lying to you. I am sure when we do nothing because of your kind and get nuked, you will blame the government for not protecting you.

[Sputty]

:huh:
Ehhhhhh....Wha?.....That was sort of sudden....Calm down a little. No one was saying the WTC were planned by Bush..

[Navaron]

You know, regardless of torture, possible terrorists or humand rights violations, there was someone who should have done something 11 years ago. The UN. He has had them by the nuts for 12 years now, and the US is finally doing it themselves. If the UN wants to tag along, thats fine and dandy, but someone in the world has to risk their lives to ensure stability, and it seems that us and our Allies are those people. I guess cowardice *is* genetic.

[�io]

Originally posted by Hamma
sigh..

Sorry Hamma man, i didn't want this to be another political debate about Iraq but i guess the people like to talk about it. :)

Anyhoo i'm kinda disapointed in my little experiemtn, i'm glad to see "Yes we are part of this world just like anybody, we shouldn't have any special previleges." is in the lead, but "This world is basically ours, we are the biggest we should do whatever we want." is right behind it. :ugh:


And i'd like to state again this thread is NOT about insulting the US and/or Canada. :)

[Bighoss]

Originally posted by {BOHICA}Navaron
"
"Israel is like 50% of the reason we need to deal with this crap. Why are we allies with them ??? there irrelevant and honestly there ties to that land is such bullshit"

Ignorance is bliss huh? Israel took over the whole damn mideast all the way to Egypt and then gave it back. I think kickin someone's ass and taking it is a pretty good claim, they should have kept it imo. We sure wouldn't have as many problems if they weren't so nice.

except they didn't do it on their own retard. They have all US military stuff because we give it to them. That country would be destroyed if it wern't for the money they recieve. Israel took over the Sinai which is not very important it is not very important thats why when they made peace with the Egyptians because they could get peace without giving up much.Israel has no modern ties to that land. They left it dormant for nearly 2000 years after the diaspora when the romans got pissed and conquered them. Now they say its theirs again. What a load of shit. Don't tell me I'm wrong either I wrote a huge report and this thing and got a 98 BITCH

[FuLLxCLiP]

i really dont kno what youre talking about from my observations europeans NO OFFENCE seem to think higher of themselves

i dont really see anybody higher than anybody else

[Bighoss]

would you be happier to see a hobo in the street asking for money or Tom Cruise?

[Navaron]

Hoss, don't start with me, you'll end up like the rest. Keep your silly second grade profanities to yourself. You have obviously very little comprehension of the subject, and your teacher must have less.

a) "They have all US military stuff because we give it to them"

WRONG - THEY BUY IT FROM US

b) "That country would be such a shit hole even if it existed still without our money."

Wrong - the fact that they one their independance with almost no US support must not reign in on your little fantasy history.

c) "Israel took over the Sinai which is not very important it is not very important thats why when they made peace with the Egyptians because they could get peace without giving up much."

Wrong yet again - The Sinai pennensula is the most important strip of land out there, for religious and historical reasons. They made peace with the Egyptian because Russia and the Cold Bloc were about to get involved which means the US would have also, and that would have started WW3. They got attacked, kicked ass, and quit while they were ahead.

d) "I hope Israel gets theres."

Maybe your teacher's an anti Semite too.

e) "Israel has no modern ties to that land"

WRONG - they have as many rights to that land as the US does to Texas. Unfortunately for you, the entire world, including the UN and US disagree with you.


f) " Don't tell me I'm wrong either I wrote a huge report and this thing and got a 98 BITCH"

- the joys of public school. Did you take fuzzy math with Al Gore, because you've mastered fuzzy history. Bitch.

[Bighoss]

lol god damnit I had a good response to this it was all facts and it deleted it ! lol need to re type

[Tobias]

Originally posted by ABRAXAAS
How about Canada just cuts off all the fresh watter.electricity,minerals.metal,trees and forestry products .
and we will see how long the states lasts behind its wall .

Canada and Russia are the 2 only countries in the world that are completely self sufficient ,if you put a bubble over the states it would fall appart . :D as powerful as the military is the US consumes to much for its own good.;)

Then we point out that we have nuke's, and they dont, and we gain a few more states with french speaking people in them? But lets not have any Canadian hate.

[BLuE_ZeRO]

:rofl:

[Navaron]

"How about Canada just cuts off all the fresh watter.electricity,minerals.metal,trees and forestry products .
and we will see how long the states lasts behind its wall "

Yeah, you've obviously never seen Tennesse --> NC-->Maine. Nothing but fresh "watter", electricity, minerals, metal, trees and forestry products.

"lol god damnit I had a good response to this it was all facts and it deleted it ! lol need to re type"

mmm hmmm. Sure ya did. :rolleyes:

[Tobias]

I had an intellegent post typed out to but my computer imploded, im sending this message with my phycic powers.

[ABRAXAAS]

OK here are some facts ,this way im not arguing or being an ass:D its simple Canada and the US need eachother .



"Canada and the United States enjoy an economic partnership unique in the contemporary world. We share the world's largest and most comprehensive trading relationship, which supports more than two million jobs in each country.

Two-way trade between Canada and the United States has more than doubled in value since 1994. We are each other's largest trading partner, with US$1.2 billion in trade now crossing the Canada-US border every single day.

US merchandise exports to Canada were down 4.6% in 2001 over the previous year as an extraordinarily long period of growth came to an end, but they remained above their 1999 levels. At about US$165 billion, Canada represents 23% of the American international market.

The United States sells almost three times as many goods to Canada, a market of 30 million people, as to Japan, a market of over 125 million. Canada is a larger market for US goods than all 15 members of the European Union combined.

The United States is the largest foreign investor in Canada and the most popular destination for Canadian investment.

Almost all our exports and imports cross the Canada-US border without incident, a remarkable achievement for a trading relationship worth over a billion dollars a day. Our two countries, however, do maintain key differences in economic policy, and respond in different ways to world economic conditions and the global free trade agenda. In cases where we have not been able to resolve our differences through consultation, we have relied on WTO and NAFTA dispute settlement procedures. Canada believes very strongly in a rules-based trading system with clear procedures for solving disputes."

[Navaron]

Canada, the 51rst state.

[Tobias]

I like cheese.



Originally posted by {BOHICA}Navaron
Canada, the 51rst state.

Nah, we would just annx it as part of Alaska

[Sputty]

Everytime you attack Canada, I consider it an attack on me:(

[BLuE_ZeRO]

Well by the amount of times we've verbally attacked Canada you should at least have very little self esteem left sputty.

[Navaron]

Canada sucks Canada Sucks CANADA SUX. Take that sputty. Sorry much WAMS :love:

[ABRAXAAS]

Its just unfortunate that the average American doesnt have any clue about what canada Does,stands for and what they provide to the US and other countrys .

I doubt any of you learnt anything about canada in school ?

[Sputty]

JSNGJNJSDNAJNFJSANJNASFDJNJFDSNJFDSA:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
U.S. IS FULL OR IDIOTIC POLITICAN WHO CAN'T EVNE PRONOUNCE WORDS CORRECTLY AND IDIOTIC ZEALOT RELIGIOUS NUTS WHO WANT TO START ANOTHER INQUISITION!!!!US WILL BE UNABLE TO SUSTAIN IT'S WAR ONT HE WORLD UNTIL IT FALLS IN ON ITSELF CAUSING MASSACRES AND THE US WILL DESTROY ITSLEF!!!

[Bighoss]

Okay bohica i have written this god damn thing twice now it won't let me post it lol gonna try one more time it tells me to log in once I hit post the message and when I do it doesn't link right and I can't go back and edit copy paste !

[ABRAXAAS]

:clap:

[Sputty]

:huh:What just happened?..Where am I? :confused:

[Tobias]

Originally posted by Bighoss
Okay bohica i have written this god damn thing twice now it won't let me post it lol gonna try one more time it tells me to log in once I hit post the message and when I do it doesn't link right and I can't go back and edit copy paste !

If you cant post, then how did you post this? hmmmm?

[BLuE_ZeRO]

I was wondering the same thing... hmm... :confused:

[Bighoss]

Originally posted by {BOHICA}Navaron
Hoss, don't start with me, you'll end up like the rest. Keep your silly second grade profanities to yourself. You have obviously very little comprehension of the subject, and your teacher must have less.

a) "They have all US military stuff because we give it to them"

WRONG - THEY BUY IT FROM US

b) "That country would be such a shit hole even if it existed still without our money."

Wrong - the fact that they one their independance with almost no US support must not reign in on your little fantasy history.

c) "Israel took over the Sinai which is not very important it is not very important thats why when they made peace with the Egyptians because they could get peace without giving up much."

Wrong yet again - The Sinai pennensula is the most important strip of land out there, for religious and historical reasons. They made peace with the Egyptian because Russia and the Cold Bloc were about to get involved which means the US would have also, and that would have started WW3. They got attacked, kicked ass, and quit while they were ahead.

d) "I hope Israel gets theres."

Maybe your teacher's an anti Semite too.

e) "Israel has no modern ties to that land"

WRONG - they have as many rights to that land as the US does to Texas. Unfortunately for you, the entire world, including the UN and US disagree with you.


f) " Don't tell me I'm wrong either I wrote a huge report and this thing and got a 98 BITCH"

- the joys of public school. Did you take fuzzy math with Al Gore, because you've mastered fuzzy history. Bitch.

A. Oh me oh my I messed up your right they do buy their weapons from us with the money we give thems woopsie so silly of me;)

B. Israel did not win any of its wars on its own. The Allies did infact help arm the Israelis in the War of independence and it did not win any others on its own either. It is common knowledge that Israel depends on the Foriegn aid that it is given.

C. The Sinai is infact a deserted waste land it doesn't have much going for it except the canal that links the red S and the Med S. I haven't heard about the Soviets getting involved in that area thats interesting never heard about that. Just proves we all learn something knew every day. Send me an offical link about this I wanna read about this.

D. When I said I hope Israel gets theirs I meant I hope the US wakes up and realizes that Israel is commiting horrific war crimes and is able to get away with it ! did u hear that a few months ago they blew up a clearly marked UN food storage building for the Palestinians and nothing happened !!! Did u think I meant I hope Israel gets nuked and gassed my god thats horrible I didn't mean it like that jesus I hope that isn't what everyone thinks I must seem like Hitler 2 :eek: :eek: :eek:
You know Israel's main political claim to that land is the Balfour declaration and they clearly violate that !
Foreign Office
November 2nd, 1917

Dear Lord Rothschild,

I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty's Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet.

"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by **** in any other country."

I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.

Yours sincerely,
Arthur James Balfour

Well Israel seems to be ignoring a large part of that to me. Not to mention the Geneva convention and human right policies.

E. America's claim to Texas comes from texas's decesion to be annexed into the union... well maybe pressured in 1945 otherwise the Mexicans would have reconquered Texas. Luckily we fought them back from 1946-1948

okay here's a rough history of Israel I'm pretty sure these dates are right but there from the top of my head

1800BCE Abraham leads the Hebrews from Babylon to Canaan the promised because Abraham was told by god if they worshiped him that Abraham and the Hebrews could live in Canaan (first part of old testament I believe)
1300BCE big drought in Canaan and so the Hewbrews go to Nile where they are enslaved by the Egyptians
1200BCE Moses and the exodus lead the people from Egypt back to Canaan and gets the 10 commandments on top of mount Sinai (but it could have been 15 !!!)
this is there first period of leave it was 100 years
1025-930BCE David and son Solomon make Israel strong but then Solomon dies and Israel divides into 12 tribes
722BCEAssyrians the empire bathed in blood and first to use Iron weapons conquers Israel which is rebuilt only to be conquered by the Neo Babylonians in 586 BCE who are then conquered by the Persians 540 BCE or so. This is the time when the Torrah was written so the Jewish traditions could be preserved.
They were conquered twice good thing they still felt like the land was theirs until...
The great revolt against the Roman Occupation of Canaan in 70 BCE where the romans say
:nono: :nono: :nono: and conquer Israel scattering the **** across the world also called the diaspora.
the land was held by many different Empires after this until the beginning of the Zionist movement in 1881 where the immagration begins. They created a "defense" foce called the Hagganah which really seem like Jewish terrorist to me.
After WWI right after the collapse of the Ottomon Empire which had competely united the Middle east but was already dieing before WWI. The British sent the Balfour declaration which is posted above. the immgration continued through the 3rd 4th and 5th aliyot and about 330,000 more **** arrive in palestine.
After world War II the world was horrified at what hitler had done so it was decided that the **** should have a homeland where they could finally escape persucution.
1947CE the UN partition plan which would have made two separate states an Israel and Palestine but the War of Independence screwed that up ! is created but is no taccepted by Arab countries for 2 reasons 1) no arab countries were allowed to help make the plan 2) Palestine would have been a bunch of Islands within Israel.
1948CE-1973CE many wars against Arab countries all of which are won be Israel and the rest of the Allies.
1976CE Egypt and Israel make peace Sadat, Begin. Israel gives up the Sinai and in return Egypt gets 1 billion a year from US because Egypt was in bad shape from declaring war on Israel so much.
1987CE the first infitada
1993CE Oslo Peace agreement between Yassir Arafat and Rabin. The plan was that Israel was going to hand over land section by section. When Rabin was assasinated in 1994 the plan didn't work as well.
This leads us all here
as you can see Israel did leave the land for 1900 years and was able to call it its own mostly because the world backed them up out of simpathy otherwise the idea probauly would have been considered ludicrous !

F. see Bohica not everyone is an ignorant asshole who doesn't have their facts right I do know some. Don't attack my school or academics you bastard. and the Bitch thing was meant to be joke to take away from the tone of seriousness from an issue.

[Bighoss]

Originally posted by Tobias
If you cant post, then how did you post this? hmmmm?
I dunno but I figured it out look below maybe I just took to long to type and it got messed up

[Revolution]

OMG, I need to start a post that we all sit around and talk about sex, drugs, and rock-n-roll or something.

I like the wall Idea. Secure our boarders and fuck the rest of the world. No one will agree about what really is going on so there is no point in talking about it, just arguments....

What I cannot get is the bitter hatred for the USA. But I guess its the same as who ever the president is and no matter how well he does most of us will always blame shit on him. The the rest of the world, or the people on forums, etc, always have to have SOMEONE to flame. Thats the answer. The USA is the Flame Target for the world? Sorta like a Rev posting jacked up on coke if ya know what I mean.

[Mtx]

You should all join the military. I remember when I was in the Army. I was in basic and I looked around and said to myself... "If these are the fools I have to go to war with... I'm one dead motherfucker."

Like the rest of the world, the Army has a few bright members and a lot of idiots. Think of it this way. Most people who join the military had nothing else going for them and I mean nothing. You don't even need a GED to get into the Army. You don't need a brain to be given a gun. Ever notice how many people died from friendly fire in desert storm? Think about it.

Having a military family I can safely say all the smart people joined the Air Force. The Air Force actually has decent standards. At least one Army soldier dies every ten days on Fort Hood. Ultimatly it is their stupidity that kills them or it is the ignorance of another GI Joe. They truely are their own worst enemies.

Let me just break everything down real quick. The US government does whatever it wants anytime it wants. The people of the US really don't have a choice in the matter. We're just as fucked as the rest of you. Yeah we can vote but electorial votes are what matter and politicians are corrupt.

I've learned a few things about living in the US.

-Polotic are crap. Dead simple right?

-The news is 90% negative and the other 10% is BS. The weatherman, with all his technology, can't predict worth shit.

-You pay taxes everyday but you'll never have a balanced budget.

-The #1 export of the US is Bullshit. We give it to everyone and then people wounder why no one trusts anyone.

-The US is morally and ethically dead. Unless it becomes bad ploblicity.


:love:

[Bighoss]

MILITARY MAN !!! GI JOE REAL AMERICAN HERO !

[Sputty]

Right....anyway...Hope you're joking

[Bighoss]

what was so wrong with that? I was complimenting him that it was cool he was in the military

[chaos1428]

No matter who the president is, or what the president does, he will be blamed for everything bad that happens to the country. And that is simply because he cannot please all the people, all the time. You do one thing, you piss off these guys. You do another, you piss off THESE guys. Where does it end? News flash, It don't.

Another thing. This may come as a shock to some of you, but contrary to what you may beleieve, the U.S. doesn't just go around looking to pick fights. We get involved in wars because our allies are involved in war. And this whole thing with Iraq. Sadam will kill his whole damn country unless we help them. This isnt just about helping Isreal anymore, its to prevent a f*cking genicide.

Sorry if this sounds like a flame or anything. Its late, I'm tired, and its been a long day

[Lexington_Steele]

This may come as a shock to you, but America does use strong arm tactics to protect American financial interests overseas.

[KoldFusion]

Originally posted by Civilian
Terrorism is absolutely a problem, but what does that have to do with Saddam Hussein? There isn't even one ounce of proof that Saddam Hussein has any connection to Al Qaeda or any other terrorist organization. This administrations justification for going to war is that they have weapons of mass destruction(which no evidence exists of........
........ You say the people who are anti-war are naive, I say the people who take the governments word at face value, and don't believe this war isn't about oil or a revenge for the elder Bush, you are naive.

1) I respect your opinion

That being said...
2) I didn't realize you worked for the CIA or British Intel.... I don't either but if we say we have intelligence then until we have proof wether we have any or not we should believe them.... We the average Joe are not privy to that info and we shouldn't be. Tony Blair went on television and said the HAVE evidence of and Iraqi connection to Al Queda... but no direct link to 9-11. That tells me the Saddam linked up with him after the 9-11 attacks.... or he just didn't provide any tracable leads connecting him to the 9-11 attacks.
3) I would buy the revenge arguement.... but there is one problem.... I will quote websters dictionary..

Revenge: n 1) an act of or instance of retaliating in order to get EVEN.

So you see it can't be revenge.... we WON the Gulf War.. Saddam defeated Bush victorious..... so what would their possibly be revenge for? The fact is that we "allowed" Saddam to live at the end of the war.

[CrazyJoker]

I usually tend to stay away from these types of debates but a) I'm bored and b) someone needs to infuse some sort info that will either add to the debate or completely kill it off somehow.

1. The current oil available to us will last 30-50 years according to scientists that have testified before Congress. Obviously lawmakers are aware of this fact so it has to have some affect on their decisions about the Middle East. Even if new sources are found it will only be sufficient to account for the increased amount of energy usage during that time period.

2. Osama bin Laden has two main complaints against us: 1. Get out of Saudi Arabia and 2. Stop supporting Israel. Conveniently enough Saddam Hussein wouldn't mind either of these two things happening. Kind of makes you wonder what would happen if we did leave and Hussein invaded and took over Saudi Arabia, considering the next bit of info.

3. bin Laden is Shi'ite Muslim (this is the form of Islam which Washington lawmakers are scared of because they are considered more radical). Saddam Hussein is technically a Sunni Muslim although he is more or less a godless person.

4. The U.S. put Hussein in power (not after Desert Storm, long before that) and armed him just like it was responsible for Noriega, bin Laden, and the Somozas.

5. bin Laden's family owns and operates a large construction firm in the Middle East, do you really think they're going to care that much if more buildings get blown up and/or destroyed?

[SandTrout]

The US is the most powerful nation in the world. We would win a war against any one country, even if we couldnt survive atacking the entire world. We get pulled into wars because our allies go to war/get attacked. The reason we don't win every conflict is because of the god damned polocy of "limited war" that was started with the Korean War. We try to force agressors back into their privious place, but not further. These Cold-War tactics will not work in modern conflicts.

We have the power, we should use it resposibly to protect our intrests. Protecting other peoples intrests costs us money and lives, but it gains us allies that will help us prevent the loss of money and lives.

Unfortuneatley, the UN is made up of a bunch of very small(relitively speaking) countries that want to exert their combined power over the US in an effort to enhance their own interests.

I say that we should continue trade and world contact, but remove ourselves from the UN. Isreal, Britain, Canada, and some other countries have been solid allies to us, and we should help them, but the rest of the world is just jealous of or success through freedom while their socialized systems cannot keep pace.

If they get pissed at us for leaveing the UN, let them show their true collors and atack us. Offencively, we couldn't defeat them all, but defenceively they couldn't defeat use either, and they would come out the worst because many of them are dependent on our traid and charity.

Bring it on, you try to take Texas, you'll have a hell of a time. Most of us are armed down here.:mad:

[SandTrout]

Hm, I think I rant too much...

[Doobz]

ranting = hate

hate does not = :love:

world needs more :love:

therefore, by some skewed version of the transitive property of mathematics, share deh lub :love:

[Bighoss]

Originally posted by SandTrout
The US is the most powerful nation in the world. We would win a war against any one country, even if we couldnt survive atacking the entire world. We get pulled into wars because our allies go to war/get attacked. The reason we don't win every conflict is because of the god damned polocy of "limited war" that was started with the Korean War. We try to force agressors back into their privious place, but not further. These Cold-War tactics will not work in modern conflicts.

We have the power, we should use it resposibly to protect our intrests. Protecting other peoples intrests costs us money and lives, but it gains us allies that will help us prevent the loss of money and lives.

Unfortuneatley, the UN is made up of a bunch of very small(relitively speaking) countries that want to exert their combined power over the US in an effort to enhance their own interests.

I say that we should continue trade and world contact, but remove ourselves from the UN. Isreal, Britain, Canada, and some other countries have been solid allies to us, and we should help them, but the rest of the world is just jealous of or success through freedom while their socialized systems cannot keep pace.

If they get pissed at us for leaveing the UN, let them show their true collors and atack us. Offencively, we couldn't defeat them all, but defenceively they couldn't defeat use either, and they would come out the worst because many of them are dependent on our traid and charity.

Bring it on, you try to take Texas, you'll have a hell of a time. Most of us are armed down here.:mad:

this is the most sensible thing ever said ! George Washington warned the USA before he stepped down to not go involved with the old world because it would mess us up. LOOK WHAT ITS DONE !!! I don't like how all these big countries keep breaking up into small ones. Its like were going backwards into Kingdoms again ! We should remove ourselves from allies although I feel that we should pay attention to the countries in Northern American and try to spread wealth into Mexico and help out Canada but they're doing fine as it is but I'm sure if America handed them the foriegn aid we gave the world Canada would be a lot happier. I wish we could make Canada a close ally and mexico too if they pulled out of it. We should keep a neatrul response with all other countries and not interfer with matters that would not effect us. We should still maintain constant export and import of each others products though because eveyone would benefeit from it. (probauly more complicated than this)

this maybe stupid but I'm sure with the agressivness and ambition of America not the mention the money we could make North America Super Country. That would have been so great and it most likely would have happened if it had not been for world war I where we got a taste of being the big boys of the world and we liked it too much.

damnit now I'm depressed the world I created was to happy :(

[�io]

Here's to the U.S.N.A.*!


:cheers::cheers::cheers:






*United States of Northen America

[SandTrout]

:love: isfor a perfect world, and small communities.

H8 is all that matters in the "Global Community". I hate this guy and you hate this guy. Lets beat up this guy.

[Revolution]

As such with you Texans, Us Nevada crazy mofo's who like to drink 24/7 prostitution and gambling are with you. And we are armed to the teeth as well!

But seriously(Well I was serious up there its the truth) it might be the end times comming up, not the end of the world, but the end of what we know as the world, and way of life. Flame on I know some of you assholes who got it all down and know everything might. But I was just stating a possible.(With both)

:mad:

[Mtx]

Originally posted by SandTrout

Bring it on, you try to take Texas, you'll have a hell of a time. Most of us are armed down here.:mad:

Over 25% of all US Army ground forces are stationed in Texas.

Hmm you know if I were a terrorist with a nuclear bomb... I'd blow up Killeen Texas (Fort Hood). That would effectivly take out a good portion of the Armies ground forces and somewhat cripple American capabilities to launch large scale military operations. Not to mention the mass hysteria it would cause.

It's a good thing I'm a good guy because if I wasn't... :cool: