Is Planetside heading for worse or for better?

[321]

No doubt there are a lot of changes being put into Planetside now like,


The capitals which just went in
The surge nerf
3rd person being taken out


Do you think that this is for the worse or better of Planetside

[SilverLord]

3rd person being taken outWTF??? 3rd person is being taken out?!?!

I always use that, i hope this isn't true.

As for this thread, PS is definatly moving towards the better, the capitals and broadcast warpgates were a massive addition to gameplay and is overall a very good implementation to PS. PS is slowly but surely moving towards the better gameplay.

[Krinsath]

1) 3rd person being taken out I've not heard is final. Smoke as I recall agrees with people that say it represents the ability of a live soldier to hear things beyond himself and just general battlefield awareness.

2) The surge nerf is more like an "exploit fix"...fixing exploits is always a change for the better.

3) Capitols and infiltrator fixes (not buffs, fixes) and surge fixes are making it a much more balanced and entertaining game. If they'd do a space expansion, I'd be quite happy.

[SilverLord]

They need to fix all the bugs and finalize everything they have in development and optimize the performance of PS as a whole before they even THINK about making an expansion but knowing SOE...they just want their money so that expansion is probubly(sp) right around the corner.

[Krinsath]

According to the Devs SL, the things you mention are exactly what they're working on. ;) As per smoke last night "No expansions in the forseeable future"

[SilverLord]

According to the Devs SL, the things you mention are exactly what they're working on. ;) As per smoke last night "No expansions in the forseeable future"WOOHOO. :groovy:

[Liquidtide]

I'm really scared about the cave locking and forcing people into the caves. I for one really do not like going down there, it's too confusing and the battles are not very tactical it's more of a FPS 1 v 1 feel, not the MMPOL that PS is proud of. The benifit of locking the caverns is to strong IMO. The lack of a goal is starting to wear on me, especially that I'm BR20 now I really only fight for the kills and to lock continents but that is losing it's appeal too.

And most of all the current state of lag with this patch is really frustrating and making it unplayable...

~Tide

[oddfish]

I too am not a huge fan of the caves. And aside from that, the devs do need to sit down and have a second look at the server issues before they start going apeshit with any more "nifty new ideas."

I'm running on a pretty damn fast connection and still have certain lag issues. I think that's a bit ridiculous. All i'm going to say is this: give the server issues some love.

[SilverLord]

And most of all the current state of lag with this patch is really frustrating and making it unplayable...I do not know of any lag at all. There is always lag in this game and to me, it seems like normal.

[oddfish]

I agree that there's always going to be SOME lag. but i really think that a look at the servers might be able to unearth a way to help with the lag that DOES exist. I know there's a shitload of people playing at a time, but really, if you're running on a 1337 connection then you should be able to get around 90% of lag. The only time there should ever be any existence of lag is when you go from a hallway to a room having a zerg extravoganza.

[Krinsath]

In a perfect world, yes...that is the only time that lag would occur. Problem is that between point A (your computer) and point B (the servers at SOE), there's this ugly monster called "The Internet".

I really wish I could remember where it was, but there was an article written by one of the developers who made Lucasarts' X-Wing Vs. TIE Fighter game (the first SW multiplayer flight-sim....had horrible lag issues, especially with the server side hit detection...if you played a duel, you did it with each hosting in turn) talking about how the Internet just plain sucks. You may not know it, but your lag may be caused by a janitor at some no name ISP that hits a power cord and unplugs a router for a split second. This causes a whole flurry of problems as the computers change routing and what not. Sometimes routers send things out on balanced loads, meaning your packets might not take the same path to their destination. Any number of variables goes on with the Internet to ensure that you're going to have tons of network lag no matter what. Since there's a lot going on in a big battle, there's lots of packets being sent out and sometimes the computers along the way (that SOE has no control over) are the ones causing the problems.

Lag is an omni-present monster for Internet gaming, because the Internet isn't controlled by anybody...which is how it should be damnit.

[oddfish]

agreed. i have been shown the sad truth which is also a bright shining light of smiley goodness. Lag will ru13 411 f0r3\/4h!!11 god bless the internet. and don't mess with texas

[CorDharel]

I will never understand why they got such a "*%� idea like caverns...

What about more object on the surface? What's about really different continents?

I think also NPC's would be a better Idea than caverns...

[oddfish]

NPC's??? um.. i'm not starting a flame war, just stating an issue with that. Theres already enough lag without having random artificial existences roaming the planet. Besides, what do you need bots and npc's for when you've got massive multiplayer? i don't know, just seems redundent.

[kidriot]

Worse.

When a Dev team begins to nerf innovation on the part of the playerbase it�s time to move onto a different game.

[Lartnev]

I personally think we're approaching the top of the first rollercoaster hill.

To build on a game you must first make sure that your foundation is strong, which is why the devs seem to concentrate on meaningless things (in the views of some on the official forums) and balance issues instead of flooding them with new content.

[Liquidtide]

By the current state of lag I mean back to the point where reloading takes a few seconds, all the enemies aren't drawing fast enough. I run a solid 60+fps (pre new patch) now I'm still running around 60 but every once in a while I will dip to under 20FPS stutter and then back to 60....

[SecondRaven]

Planetside is getting better day by day IMO and ill always play it :)

[Kikinchikin]

I was shocked when I saw the poll results. No way is Planetside heading for the better.

The game has become a complete zerg fest. There are NO organized operations anymore. This is partly because there are no working alliances still in play and because the influx of noobs to this game is atrocious. There are very few organized outfits left, the lag continues to get worse and many players are capping out and leaving.

Granted, the idea of capitol buildings seems fun, but it will wear off soon after it is implemented. (remember the LLU?)

Surgile was never an exploit, and SOE is angering more players who could end up reducing their play time significantly or just leaving the game all together, than they are pleasing players.

Third person view being taken out is even worse. How in the world are we going to drive our prowlers now? You do realize how wide those things are right? Vehicle driving is going to suck horribly.

I was going to vote no change, but that was not an option, so I voted worse I'm going to cancel. I think Planetside will mostly stay the same for a while, until more people either leave or come in. If more noobs leave the game will improve as lag will be less and hopefully more experienced players will come back/lead more operations like the good old days. If more noobs come in, the zergfest will get worse as will the lag and what is already a small amount of tactics will completely be vaporized in favor of one minded rushes.

Perhaps my view on the game is skewed for two reasons. One that I'm a veteran who's been playing since last March (beta) and I know there were better times for PS (summer and other times), and two that I'm a TR on Emerald and whenever I've been on we've been getting pounded so bad I don't suppose we could start any kind of organized op/raid. But these reasons are minor and in my opinion the game is not heading for better any time soon.

[Dharkbayne]

Surge being killed = Good. It should be for tactical use, not combat. Like I said before, 1 enemy soldier behind you is alot deadlier than 5 rushing towards you.

Capitals are good, they are going to add new models for bases soon.

3rd person, I didn't hear anything about that, I would like to see it NOT useable inside buildings.

[Lonehunter]

If SOE keeps adding content instaed of fixing the content they got, then it will go down hill

[SecondRaven]

Surge being killed = Good. It should be for tactical use, not combat. Like I said before, 1 enemy soldier behind you is alot deadlier than 5 rushing towards you.

Capitals are good, they are going to add new models for bases soon.

3rd person, I didn't hear anything about that, I would like to see it NOT useable inside buildings.


I totally agree with that, you can take away 3rd person infantry when out doors but don�t take away 3rd person for vehicles or infantry that are indoors

[Krinsath]

The game has become a complete zerg fest. There are NO organized operations anymore. This is partly because there are no working alliances still in play and because the influx of noobs to this game is atrocious. There are very few organized outfits left, the lag continues to get worse and many players are capping out and leaving.

There are still plenty of organized ops, it's just that few CRs get on the same page to actually coordinate real operations. I was on Emerald last night with the NC and I was quite surprised to see the NC holding 5 continents. I went to do a /who teams to see why there was such dominance and was floored by what I saw: TR-36%, VS-33%, NC - 31%. The Empire with the smallest population was holding half the world. I thought that perhaps the Surgiles had returned in force until I saw that the CRs were actually leading and getting troops to the right places to blunt invasions. Didn't matter how hard the enemy tried, there was a force there to repel them. Since the VS (and I'm assuming the TR as well) didn't organize themselves, they kept losing out to the better organized NC. Organized armies > disorderly mobs any day of the week.

Granted, the idea of capitol buildings seems fun, but it will wear off soon after it is implemented. (remember the LLU?)

Maybe I'm unusual, but I still find an LLU base a refreshing change from sitting at an empty base for an arbitrary amount of time. Capitol buildings, broadcast WGs and the Dominion system added a LOT of changes on a fundamental level. Until players have had more time to adapt to it, I'd say that's another reason you can't get organized ops going readily. Too many people trying to figure the new stuff out.

Surgile was never an exploit, and SOE is angering more players who could end up reducing their play time significantly or just leaving the game all together, than they are pleasing players.

Using Surge as an Agile is not an exploit. Using Surge as an Agile because you know it makes you warp and harder to hit and you can therefore rack up more kills because you've removed the possibility of being hit *is* an exploit. Had the Surgiles not abused it grievously, the Devs would not have reached this point. Are they going to piss of more people than they please? Maybe, but a lot of that has to do with the hundreds of players that already left because they DIDN'T do anything.

Third person view being taken out is even worse. How in the world are we going to drive our prowlers now? You do realize how wide those things are right? Vehicle driving is going to suck horribly.

Dude, read the thread. Smoke was considering it, but has decided that it will probably stay. He was only thinking about it because of it's attachment to Surgile abusers, but since there are many people who use it for productive reasons (other than a cheap way to find cloakers), it will probably be unchanged. I don't think there was ever a chance of it being removed from vehicle drivers at a minimum. At first I was against infantry being able to use it, but then again the point that it represents that awareness (hearing, smelling, intuition) that you can't really put things in to represent...seems to be a valid point, even if I don't use it indoors.

Perhaps my view on the game is skewed for two reasons. One that I'm a veteran who's been playing since last March (beta) and I know there were better times for PS (summer and other times), and two that I'm a TR on Emerald and whenever I've been on we've been getting pounded so bad I don't suppose we could start any kind of organized op/raid. But these reasons are minor and in my opinion the game is not heading for better any time soon.

During beta, there was no lattice, hence no front lines, hence no real "army" size formations. Now there are such things. Should there be a reason for the zerg to spread out (such as more than bases on the lattice)? Yes...but until things settle, another major upheaval in gameplay probably isn't smart.

I'm TR on Emerald too, and I've seen my outfit run tons of organized ops (nothing beats Prowler platoons). CDL undoubtedly runs tons of organized ops. Many other outfits do, you're confusing the fact that people deserted the TR during Lasher 2.5 (or whatever version number applies to the bugged one) and the massive change in the way that the game is played with this last patch. If your definition of zerg fest is 60 people on either side hammering away at each other, then I'm afraid you've missed the entire point of Planetside. It's about big battles...and big battles require you to get lots of people in the same place at the same time.

[EarlyDawn]

Better. The game is getting more depth. Upper level continental strategy was introduced by the BCWGs, and capitols are the core of the continent, the one place you've gotta capture for the edge.

More vehicles, new weapons and MAXes will be good, but the top two things I want to see are the Elite abilities, because they'll hopefully make players different, and enhanced command features like Hayoo's idea.

[Lartnev]

I don't honestly mind the zerg. It provides for massive fights which I enjoy every minute of. But inside that zerg you do have organised ops and outfits and they are the ones that make all the difference. In agreement with Krinsath, pre-lattace links you'd never get a build up of forces. Squads would simply drop on an empty base, camp it for 15 minutes (while all the other squads were doing similar things at bases and so you'd wouldn't see anyone else) and then find a new base. Good example was this one time I was in a burster. In an entire base drop I was the only person to kill anyone, because I happened to be outside and destroyed a Reaver.

I think the problem isn't so much of the zerg, as the fact that you don't get two zergs colliding very often. So the weight of numbers begins rolling over the defenders. They tend to sometimes tend to collide at bridges because the zerg is held up away from bases and neither side has the advantage (and strength in numbers is broken up by the bottleneck of crossing the bridge) which makes bridge fights some of the most enjoyable in the game.

[Electrofreak]

See, some people are saying SOE is spending too much time adding new features and not enough time fixing problems. But if they spend more time fixing problems then people will leave because they are bored because of the lack of new features. So, the devs are trying to play it safe by going with a "middle ground" strategy. In case you haven't noticed, the patches have been coming out in an order. Fix patch, new features patch, fix patch, new features patch. This is how the Devs are trying to keep the players who want fixes happy as well as the players who want new stuff happy. EVERY patch, the other group is going to bitch about how "the devs should be FIXING stuff not adding more!" or "stop screwing with shit and give us new material!"

In all seriousness, what are they supposed to do? Exactly as they are doing right now. Do their best to keep each group happy in turn.

[Queensidecastle]

My whole outfit which used to be one of the best on Emerald has all but disintegrated. While the Core combat changes were good, it wasnt enough to keep them around. I agree with Lilbird2431. It seems like the Devs are just dumbing down the game. Taking out the requirement to reload, surge nerf, third person view..etc

[teratravp]

Seems alright. I'm buying a 1 mo subscription when my current trial is up.

dev priorities need to be as others have said:

1. Optimize and finalize graphics code- get this beast running tighter then UT2k4 :D There's not many shaders in this game so graphically it should really fn fly on any reasonable mid to high system - and it certainly has run much better at times so we all know it can happen - to even play right now I had to tweak tons of shit, otherwise I wouldn't be able to

2. Finalize weapons. as in FINAL. IZE. hehe. No seriously this game might as well have just launched if they keep changing weapons at the rate they do. And that is of course seriously messing up the steadiness of the empires and playerbase.

3. Say it with me now *NEW* features. I said NEW. Not a vehicle. Not a weapon. Not an expansion with vehicles and weapons. I'm talking features here - more stuff at sanc - more functional stuff to play with in bases, towers... more stuff to do in the gameworld in general. This is vanilla PS still, same as it was a year ago. NON mmog have made bigger feature additions through patches then this game, cmon now.


That said there is an assload of fun to be found in PS. For some the fun lasts, for some comes and goes, and some can take a month of playing a year or so then wait another year. There is nothing necessarily bad about this design. It IS plenty of fun and wholly original. When I make suggestions I'm not doing it in the vein of DO THIS NOW OR THE GAME DIES@!!@!, these are just ideas, plain and simple.

See you all on the barrel end of my weps. ;)

[JakeLogan]

Well besides the fact that my FPS Lag is the worse it's been since Beta. It's for the better. (I just need more RAM)

[Krinsath]

One of the upcoming changes I really liked to hear was some of the sanctuary improvements they'd like to make. Some of the things mentioned:

-Race tracks to practice driving. Or holding ANT races when you can't get anywhere with poplocks. ;)

-Aerial obstacle courses and targets for pilot practice.

-Grief-free combat arenas where outfits could scrimmage and fight against rival outfits in the same empire. Also for training of new players.

Of course, that's after the alter the data structures to make the maps a bit more changeable...so summer at the earliest probably. :(

[KIAsan]

Game is getting better. Older bugs are starting to be resolved. Exploits are being removed. Balance is getting better every patch (with a few setbacks). Also, new and better content is occuring. This is a win for PS. The devs really are keeping this interesting. Even to core is getting marginally better (I do agree at last they should just release it for free, although I paid).

BTW, in case you haven't noticed, the zerg is pretty much dead.

[oddfish]

I did notice a degree of recession in the amount of zerging taking place. Do we think this is directly attributed to the update?

[GreyFox]

In a year or so.. Who knows what PlanetSide will look like?

We probably will have the new Capital buildings.
Maybe we will have some new Empire Specific Aircraft?
Maybe we will have a great commander interface.
Maybe there will be an expansion? Building upun the already existing areas. Such as the water around the continents. A Naval expansion? With Aircraft Carriers, Battleships, Destroyers and Subs? And Ports of course.
Maybe they will have finished their file structure optimization (which is kinda required for the Capital graphics), and have designed new looking bases for all the bases?
Maybe we will have an almost perfect balance?
Etc...

I think the game is definatly getting better and better. And at a pretty fast pace at the moment aswell.

[oddfish]

the fact of the matter is that this is a constantly evolving game. no matter what happens it can't actually get worse unless people stop playing. it can only get better. I don't play the game, but look at Counter-Strike. From what i've seen it has improved dramatically and it's 3 years old. PlanetSide can only get better. There will be minor things that may upset some, but in general the masses should be pleased with this extremely fun and accessible game. besides, it's a ond-of-a-kind thing.

[Dharkbayne]

I don't play the game, but look at Counter-Strike. From what i've seen it has improved dramatically and it's 3 years old.

Try about 6.

[oddfish]

ah, yes, forgot.. came out about when half-life came out.. sorry about that :drunk:

[321]

2) The surge nerf is more like an "exploit fix"...fixing exploits is always a change for the better.

Surge was not an exploit warping was an exploit so if you want a exploit fix you want them to take out warping. If you just hate the surge implant then you just want the implant out bugged or not.

[oddfish]

means to an end.

surging is the means by which agiles warp about the battlefield

warping is bad
therefore, the means by which warping is attained are bad
so, you fix the problem by making the means no longer meet the end.

[Krinsath]

Surge was not an exploit warping was an exploit so if you want a exploit fix you want them to take out warping. If you just hate the surge implant then you just want the implant out bugged or not.

Surge warping was indeed an exploit. Notice the first word of that "Surge"...so if Surge warping is the exploit, then the fix will entail fixing either the warping or the surge. Since, for whatever reason, the devs do not feel they can adequately fix the netcode, which they have already tried (and before anyone goes there...not a single person on this board has any idea of how the PS engine REALLY works on a statement level) that means fixing warping is out for at least the time being. Hence, the only viable alternative means trying to do something to Surge, which is what has been done at least until a more permanent solution is available.

I have no problem with the Surge implant, if people want to use it more power to them. In the days immediately after the LLU was released, I loved that implant to death, I just found others that suited my style more. What I have a problem with is people who use it gain an unfair combat advantage through the exploitation of a known bug. Please do not try to confuse my position on the matter.

Surge = fine until it causes problems. It is causing problems, even if it's not directly the implant's fault...hence, Surge needs to be fixed as the core issue appears to be beyond current capabilties.

[Dharkbayne]

321 is just bitching because he's a surge monkey and an exploiter.

[oddfish]

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!! RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRR!!! GRRRRRRRRR!!! GROWL!! <<tears through myriad papers on desk>> RAAAAAAAARRR!! HATE!! SURGILE!!! FUCK!! SHIT!! GRRRRRRR!!!...

*ahem*

i apologize for that outburst.. actually, i love surge warp. hooray for surge warp. boo anyone who doesn't like surgewarp *twitch* boo *twitch*

by the way, i'm just spamming, so feel free to flame the living shit out of me.

[Hamma]

Worse.

When a Dev team begins to nerf innovation on the part of the playerbase it�s time to move onto a different game.
Must be NC.

I praise the devs for removing a known exploit that ruins the game for people trying to have fun.

[oddfish]

must be.

and, Hamma, i am in total agreement with that one. why get pissy over something that is clearly only going to be to the benefit of the gaming community in both the short AND long run?

[EarlyDawn]

I did notice a degree of recession in the amount of zerging taking place. Do we think this is directly attributed to the update?It's because of the way you take the continent now. You frequently have to split your forces between the sub-caps and the capitol, while still siezing other base types to get tanks and shields. Helps to break up the momentum of the zergs we've seen for months before, when it was simply so powerful it just mowed through even the toughest defense.

[oddfish]

yes, earlydawn, i discovered this little factoid this afternoon during an hour long session of PS skirmishing. :) i guess i'm just still in shock of the decrease in zerging. :D

[KIAsan]

The zerg actually DIED when they fixed the population levels on continents. A true zerg was when you had numerically superior forces and just overwhelmed a base by throwing bodies at it mindlessly. Now, you CAN'T have overwhelming forces, since your limited to your fair share. So, forces are split, SLs have to be more thoughtfull, and the zerg died. True, you still see some minor 'zerg' style battles when there is a population imbalance, however the true hordes of zerglings are gone forever.

[oddfish]

again, hoo-ray for that. zerging is not a realistic tactic by ANY stretch of the imagination. 'bout time that shit got thrown out.

[321]

I praise the devs for removing a known exploit that ruins the game for people trying to have fun.

It doesn't ruin the game for all people trying to have fun :).

[Ghryphen]

I praise the devs for removing a known exploit that ruins the game for people trying to have fun.

It doesn't ruin the game for all people trying to have fun :).

Yeah Hamma, not all, it is only 2/3's.

[oddfish]

but for the majority i think it does, hence the reason it's out. this is a big gaming community and if you want to keep it happy you have to play to the masses..

[Diddy Mao]

It's bad enough they are Gank'n Surge now they are take'n out 3rd person view?

[oddfish]

IT'S ON THE TABLE.. it's not for sure.. don't get your panties in a bunch yet here guys.

[SquirrelMan]

One of the upcoming changes I really liked to hear was some of the sanctuary improvements they'd like to make. Some of the things mentioned:

-Race tracks to practice driving. Or holding ANT races when you can't get anywhere with poplocks. ;)

-Aerial obstacle courses and targets for pilot practice.

-Grief-free combat arenas where outfits could scrimmage and fight against rival outfits in the same empire. Also for training of new players.

Of course, that's after the alter the data structures to make the maps a bit more changeable...so summer at the earliest probably. :(

... how I would love those...

[oddfish]

i know.. those concepts sound very pretty. :D

[Baneblade]

Fixing Surge is good...

Taking out the chase camera from infantry is better (it was infantry only btw, still got it in vehicles)...

All that is left, for me anyway, is Air Cruisers...

=/

[Eldanesh]

Fixing Surge is good...

Taking out the chase camera from infantry is better (it was infantry only btw, still got it in vehicles)...


Could I get a link to that? + if they are taking out 3rd person for infantry then it is a terrible idea, now it will feel like I have absolutely NO peripheral vision and I am just running around with blinders on.
Taking out infantry 3rd person really seems like they are dumbing the game down, everyone can use it, its all in how you apply it.

[Lartnev]

The thread is: http://boards.station.sony.com/ubb/planetside/Forum16/HTML/002965.html

Basically someone commented that being able to use third person for infantry was a cheap tactic and asked if anyone else thought the same. The resulting posts were mainly more of the same, especially if you included Darklight. SmokeJumper jumps in and stirs it up a bit by saying:

I would like to hear reasons why the third-person view should be left *IN*. Are there any?
I have only two reasons: Vehicles are easier to drive in third-person and in air combat, especially, it's critical.

But for infantry, I really don't have any reasons other than "it's nice to be able to look at your face once in a while". Of course, you can see that on the character selection page also...so maybe that's not a reason.

Anything else?

Nothing saying yes or no, just SmokeJumper asking what the community thinks about the issue.

[Breed]

Planetside is getting better in my opinion.
Implementation of the new surge rules will improve gameplay for the more 'honest' players who didnt want to abuse the flaws in speed-step detection.

All the new improvements the developers are adding and have in QA are really making the playerbase happier, at least on Werner anyway.

As long as the devs continue to add to this game and improve upon its current design, i will stay subscrived and happy :)

[Baneblade]

I think the chase camera is cheap because it isnt a realistic advantage, looking around objects without actually sticking your neck out, seems to easy...

I use it, I admit it, but I only use it cause it's so useful, I would rather it were gone...

In my opinion there are zero good reasons to keep it...

As for the blinders thing, everyone has them, it's all in how you apply it...

[Breed]

I think the chase camera is cheap because it isnt a realistic advantage

Perhaps, but since when has planetside been realistic? Its more about balance.
If everyone has 3rd person/chase cam, then its not an unfair advantage.

I myself use the 3rd person view an extensive amount, especially in towers so i can see an enemy aproach around a corner and jump out and suprise him.
Also i find driving is much more rewarding in 3rd person.

If they removed 3rd person, i would be dissapointed, but it wouldnt ruin the gameplay, make it harder perhaps.
Im sure most people would adapt.

[Lartnev]

I tend to use 3rd person when I'm bored and just stare at the cool reload/anchor animations ;)

I'd be happy as long as they kept it for vehicles.

Actually, thinking about it, I use it for hacking. Almost saved me from getting boomered once or twice, but I've always paniced and pressed all kinds of keys to stop the REK hacking and run :rofl:

[Madcow]

I use third person when repairing vehicles. You're pretty well screwed in first person with nothing but the side of the vehicle in front of you, while you would normally be able to look around and make sure no enemies were approaching realistically. Well, I also use it to dodge lasher orbs as I run like a little baby in my infil armor but that's just cheap tactic.

[SilverLord]

I use third person when I put out from atop a mountain and switch to 3rd person and wait for some guy to come kill me, wait till he gets right there and boom, switch to first and waste him. :D

[infinite loop]

I find it disturbing that most of you seem to be so happy about the surge nerf. If you all are behind anything that is "better" for the game, you'd realize this quite possibly could be what kills it. Moreso, how does it not bother you that instead of fixing the warping, they're taking the lazy, easy way out? They are appeasing some players while totally alienating others, when fixing the problem would appease both. Seems kinda fucked up doesn't it?

I personally am for fixing warping, which is one of the most annoying things in the game. But removing a playstyle that a very large percentage of the playerbase has been used to for months is like shooting yourself in the foot. Whether you like surgiles or not, it's a piece of the game that offers the variety to appeal to all types of gamers. I see several new goodbye threads in the OF everyday because of the direction this game is taking.

Keep your blinders on guys, but this game is going downhill fast. I'm sticking around till the end, but haven't enjoyed the game anywhere near as much as I used to.

Oh and btw Hamma - kidRiot is probably the most talented player I've ever seen and played with in PS, so I wouldn't take his opinion lightly. It is one that many of the better players hold.

[oddfish]

i think the ability to lean and perhaps a key that lets you turn your head only would be a good alternative to 3rd person in infantry role. Leaning and looking are crucial to battle in my opinion, i was surprised they never incorporated it in the first place..

now, you may commence flaming..

[Breed]

Infinite Loop, the devs have looked into the speed-step issue for a long time and if the people who designed the game cant fix it after so many months then the best thing they can do is aliviate the problem in any way they can until they find another solution.
The only people i see complaining are the surgile bunner hoppers, who are losing their unfair advantage.

Perhaps when the issue is resolved surge can re-introduced to its orginal state, until then i am happy to see the devs responding to such an important issue wit hthe best fix available to them at the time.

Anyone whos sees the Devs as lazy is in my eyes ignorant and perhaps foolish, their workload is immense and anyone who thinks they can do better...then you should go make your own game and see how well it turns out, or even better, shut up and let them get on with their hard work and solve problems more quickly without having to be subjected to pre-pubesent whining.

For the record, i am not whining, this is merely a structured statement :P "STFU n00b" and/or "omfg" were not used ;)

[oddfish]

Breed.. Fuckin' A, brother. :nod:

[infinite loop]

Infinite Loop, the devs have looked into the speed-step issue for a long time and if the people who designed the game cant fix it after so many months then the best thing they can do is aliviate the problem in any way they can until they find another solution.

First of all, no, that's a horrible solution. Alienating players and causing some to cancel their subscriptions cannot be seen as the "best thing they can do." Honestly, how often do you see warping? What percentage of your deaths can be attributed to it? If it's anything substantial, then you're lying to further your point. Warping sucks, but it isn't this big game-killer that some people make it out to be imo. Regardless of your view on warping, I cannot fathom the potential loss of subscriptions to be worth the short-term appeasement of others.

The only people i see complaining are the surgile bunner hoppers, who are losing their unfair advantage.

Lovely stereotype there bud. So is bunny-hopping a pre-requisite to surgile? Funny.

Perhaps when the issue is resolved surge can re-introduced to its orginal state, until then i am happy to see the devs responding to such an important issue wit hthe best fix available to them at the time.

Again, how can you say that the loss of subscriptions now will be worth it long-term?

Anyone whos sees the Devs as lazy is in my eyes ignorant and perhaps foolish, their workload is immense and anyone who thinks they can do better...then you should go make your own game and see how well it turns out, or even better, shut up and let them get on with their hard work and solve problems more quickly without having to be subjected to pre-pubesent whining.

Call me what you want, but ignorant I am not. I myself am a software developer, and have a good idea of how the life-cycle works. If this were my software, I would be spending 100% of my effort on fixing the warping issue, and 0% on new content. I'm not specifically calling the developers out, more laying the blame on the project manager and other management that makes the decisions. Oh and the non-existent QA department that allows things like this to even make it to production. Pretty piss-poor honestly. Anyway, if they didn't spend so much time listening to "pre-pubescent whining" then they wouldn't be nerfing surge in the first place. Squeaky wheel gets the grease right?

[oddfish]

I don't care if you're jesus christ himself, Loop, you don't know what's going on 24/7 with the devs so you have no idea how much thought was put into this change. I myself was only affected by surgile warping on a few occasions and i'm going to say, it was extremely frustrating.

here: say you've got a ring on your middle finger.. the middle finger is not completely essential but you do like your middle finger. well, the problem is this ring on your middle finger chafes and rubs off skin and makes it hard to do some tasks with your hand. (i'll leave that up to your imagination) You're not going to chop off the finger, and you're not going to reconfigure you're hand to accomodate the ring, you're going to remove the ring. It's nice, people like the ring, but it's not NECESSARY and it's causing a problem. Gunning while in surge mode was causing people to use surge for something it's not really meant for and it caused warping in the process. You're not going to reconfigure the entire system to accomodate this perk, you're going to remove the perk, it's not really needed. Some people will be sad, others may leave, but the majority won't mind and will get used to it.

I can't understand why everyone seems to think the devs are such retards over this decision. i dunno. i just can't wait to get flamed.. i'm so excited!

[Breed]

Infinite Loop, i disagree.
The devs cannot find a way to fix speed-step warping, if they could, they would fix it simple as that.
So why should they put 100% of their resources into something that theyve alreadt spent months trying to figure out?

As for how many times ive been surge killed, id say that less than 2% of my deaths are caused by warping. Thats still 2% too much.

I dont understand your satire towards my Bunny hoping surgile expression, since jumping during the surge is what causes the problem in the first place.

You mention several times the "loss of subscriptions".
Lets face it, if your quitting because of an implant change, no-one will miss you.
You cannot argue that NC are receiving a nerf because of this either, as you can still surge to the enemy position then get your weapon out.

Perhaps you just like the speed and the how easy it is for the enemy to miss you when moving so...but i'll say this, we're not playing Quake 3 or Unreal Tournament, if you want fast paces annihilistic gameplay, play those games instead, Planetside a large scale tactical war game, which should not have players zipping around on their feet 'dominating' everyone around them at supersonice speeds whilst remaining un-hittable.

Oh btw, if this or any other of my posts seem aimed at you i apologise, that is not their intention, i just dont understand why you are trying to defend surge-warpers so diligently.

The community wants them out, the devs have a solution, its not perfect, but its something and the community will sacrifice the handful of players who cant handle change nor adapt to new scenarios, so we can enjoy this game we all love and want to suceed.

[Happy lil Elf]

I find it disturbing that most of you seem to be so happy about the surge nerf. If you all are behind anything that is "better" for the game, you'd realize this quite possibly could be what kills it. Moreso, how does it not bother you that instead of fixing the warping, they're taking the lazy, easy way out? They are appeasing some players while totally alienating others, when fixing the problem would appease both. Seems kinda fucked up doesn't it?

Has it occured to you that with the engine they use they may not be able to fix it short of re-writing the engine or that it may not even be possible with current technology to do what PS does and eliminate warping? It bugs me that there are people seem to think it's a simple matter of changing a couple lines of code and warping would just vanish.

I'll freely admit that I don't know if this is the case, because I don't. It would be nice if people didn't act like they know Surge is being changed only because the Devs are "taking the lazy, easy way out" though because it's not known. Honestly I wish they'd just tell us flat out if it's an issue with the engine that they can't fix, to put some of the bitching to rest if nothing else. Although now that I think about it, them saying that wouldn't matter. There are still people who would believe they're just "taking the easy way out".

Oh and btw Hamma - kidRiot is probably the most talented player I've ever seen and played with in PS, so I wouldn't take his opinion lightly. It is one that many of the better players hold.

A large, even an obscenely large kill count as in the case of Kid, does not validate his opinion more than anyone else. Talent at playing the game does not equate to knowing what is the best for the game.

Now aside from that, this:When a Dev team begins to nerf innovation on the part of the playerbase it's time to move onto a different game.is a very vauge statment. I'm curious exactly what he is trying to imply here, I mean I could probably guess, but more often than not that leads to misunderstandings and/or backpedaling. I'd love to hear the reasoning behind this statment as, at least to me, it makes very little sense.

As far as his opinion being one that "many of the better players have", you can say the exact same thing about Hamma's opinion, my opinion or anyone elses. There's really no way to prove which one of us is full of crap though. If you want to judge by this poll though, I'd say the majority seems to be happy with how Planetside is going /shrug

[GreyFox]

zerging is not a realistic tactic by ANY stretch of the imagination. 'bout time that shit got thrown out.Not? Zerging = overwhelming the enemy with more troops then they got. Which is the ultimate strategy in war. Ask the Russians. ;)

Ask Sun Tzu.

Not that I like Zerging in the game.

[oddfish]

i know overwhelming the enemy is a good tactic, but zerging refers more to parking the ams right by a door and having guys respawn and re-enter the fight just to make like army ants or "zerglings" and zerg the shit out of the entrance again. Overwhelming force is important.. i believe it was Sun Tzu who said that you should have twice your enemy's force if you are attacking him. Yes, true, but in real life you can't respawn, so zerging is not an entirely realistic tactic since it depends heavily on respawn.

[infinite loop]

Infinite Loop, i disagree.
The devs cannot find a way to fix speed-step warping, if they could, they would fix it simple as that.
So why should they put 100% of their resources into something that theyve alreadt spent months trying to figure out?

I'm a bit confused why you are mixing the speedstepping issue with warping. They are mutually exclusive. If they are saying that the cause of warping is due to some fundamentally flawed code in the engine/framework, and it isn't cost-effective to fix it, then fine, I wish they'd just admit that. Instead, they're saying some nonsense about offensive combat with surge not being an intended form of gameplay that they designed. They don't even mention warping, and they're just trying to cover it up. If it's fixable, then fix it! Why is that so difficult to understand?

I dont understand your satire towards my Bunny hoping surgile expression, since jumping during the surge is what causes the problem in the first place.

My satire was used because you're suggesting that all surgilers bunny hop to induce warping. That's just plain ignorant, as a huge percentage of people I play with as NC use surgile, but I rarely see anyone warp. Again, using surgile does not necessitate bunny hopping.

You mention several times the "loss of subscriptions".
Lets face it, if your quitting because of an implant change, no-one will miss you.
You cannot argue that NC are receiving a nerf because of this either, as you can still surge to the enemy position then get your weapon out.

It's this negative attitude towards players leaving that gets me. Don't you think having more subscriptions is a good thing? Or only subscriptions of people who use a playstyle that you approve of? Oh and the NC are most definitely receiving a nerf, big time. The range issue and imbalance of the JH will come to light after this next patch. And your surging argument is complete and utter nonsense. While I'm surging up to the enemy position, I'm more than likely to be taking damage while not dishing any out myself. That would equal me losing that battle.

Perhaps you just like the speed and the how easy it is for the enemy to miss you when moving so...but i'll say this, we're not playing Quake 3 or Unreal Tournament, if you want fast paces annihilistic gameplay, play those games instead, Planetside a large scale tactical war game, which should not have players zipping around on their feet 'dominating' everyone around them at supersonice speeds whilst remaining un-hittable.

What I have liked about PS the most is that it offered a variety of playstyles to attract different kinds of gamers. This quote is from the official site's overview of the game:
It doesn't matter if you're an avid RPG gamer or a fanatical FPS player, you'll find something in PlanetSide that's just right for you.
Whether or not they wanted the twitch gamers to play or not, they got them, and now they're basically trying to get rid of them. Sometimes I like the fast surgile play, other times I prefer to tank around in my rexo. It's the variety that keeps it fresh and on your toes.

i just dont understand why you are trying to defend surge-warpers so diligently.

I'm not defending warping. I am defending a playstyle.

The community wants them out, the devs have a solution, its not perfect, but its something and the community will sacrifice the handful of players who cant handle change nor adapt to new scenarios, so we can enjoy this game we all love and want to suceed.

Exactly what statistics are available to back up this statement? How do you know that a majority of the playerbase is behind this change? How do you know that only a handful of players are going to be affected? I think you're going to be surprised, and not in a good way, how detrimental this change is going to be to the long-term health of PS.

[infinite loop]

Has it occured to you that with the engine they use they may not be able to fix it short of re-writing the engine or that it may not even be possible with current technology to do what PS does and eliminate warping? It bugs me that there are people seem to think it's a simple matter of changing a couple lines of code and warping would just vanish.

I'll freely admit that I don't know if this is the case, because I don't. It would be nice if people didn't act like they know Surge is being changed only because the Devs are "taking the lazy, easy way out" though because it's not known. Honestly I wish they'd just tell us flat out if it's an issue with the engine that they can't fix, to put some of the bitching to rest if nothing else. Although now that I think about it, them saying that wouldn't matter. There are still people who would believe they're just "taking the easy way out".

You're right honestly. I probably am a bit too quick to accuse them of taking the easy way out. But like you said, we don't know, because they won't tell us! If it's a technical limitation, I will fully accept that and deal with it. But why must they dance around the issue?


A large, even an obscenely large kill count as in the case of Kid, does not validate his opinion more than anyone else. Talent at playing the game does not equate to knowing what is the best for the game.

I didn't say it did, I was just commenting on Hamma's equating his statement to just being an NC.

As far as his opinion being one that "many of the better players have", you can say the exact same thing about Hamma's opinion, my opinion or anyone elses. There's really no way to prove which one of us is full of crap though. If you want to judge by this poll though, I'd say the majority seems to be happy with how Planetside is going /shrug

There really is no way to prove it until the dust settles after the patch goes through. Let's see how many people quit, and if the game is still fun. But a poll on a forum honestly only represents an extremely small sample size of the overall playerbase, and therefore should not be taken as being accurate.

[Kikinchikin]

amen loop.

I think you're going to get people that are angry for the most part because they can't use surge with weapons in scenarios like this:

You hope off a base wall and see 3 guys a ways down the wall running. You're equipped with only an MCG. What do you do now? No surge so you won't catch em.

You're creaping up on snipers, and you want to close the gap quicker, but an enemy knows where you are and is shooting at you. It's gonna take a lot longer time now, and you can't return fire.

You're trying to avoid enemy fire and still return some. Can't do it as easily now.

Surge has many practical uses that don't involve warping, but do involve having your weapon out. This was not the way to fix it. If anything at least allow people to carry any weapon aside from HA while surging. I dunno, but it seems like they are jipping people of an implant that has many good, tactical uses other than warping.

[oddfish]

yeah, but no one's fuckin' with my analogy! yeah! that's right! YEAH!

"ladies and gentlemen, that was an invitation to use something in oddfish's analogy against him. Please take this opportunity to rip him a new one, he greatly deserves it for his constant and undeniable arrogance. the fucker."

[Krinsath]

I'm a bit confused why you are mixing the speedstepping issue with warping. They are mutually exclusive. If they are saying that the cause of warping is due to some fundamentally flawed code in the engine/framework, and it isn't cost-effective to fix it, then fine, I wish they'd just admit that. Instead, they're saying some nonsense about offensive combat with surge not being an intended form of gameplay that they designed. They don't even mention warping, and they're just trying to cover it up. If it's fixable, then fix it! Why is that so difficult to understand?

I agree that speedstepping and warping are totally unrelated, though they do manifest the same symptoms.

The Devs did not want the fast "boom boom dead" feel of the other FPSes because that doesn't encourage serious teamwork and takes away from the tactical feel. That is the general premise of PS: Teamwork. Using a group of people with different roles to accomplish the same objective, not "one guy does everything"


My satire was used because you're suggesting that all surgilers bunny hop to induce warping. That's just plain ignorant, as a huge percentage of people I play with as NC use surgile, but I rarely see anyone warp. Again, using surgile does not necessitate bunny hopping.

Much like warping does not necessitate jumping. If you don't see anyone warp, congratulations. What about the fair number of people who DO have this problem? They don't deserve a solution? They're paying just as much as you are.

It's this negative attitude towards players leaving that gets me. Don't you think having more subscriptions is a good thing? Or only subscriptions of people who use a playstyle that you approve of? Oh and the NC are most definitely receiving a nerf, big time. The range issue and imbalance of the JH will come to light after this next patch. And your surging argument is complete and utter nonsense. While I'm surging up to the enemy position, I'm more than likely to be taking damage while not dishing any out myself. That would equal me losing that battle.

Subscriptions are a good thing, but the Surge issue could just as easily have cost PS as many subscriptions from people who were looking for something other than Quake and discovered the Surge bugs or people who got fed up with the bugs and left as this change will. Maybe not. Fact is that you don't know. Please refrain from acting like you do.

I also believe that Surgile are the reason the JH has been nerfed to uselessness outside of point-blank. Maybe after they have "gotten rid" of that style, the Devs will be able to see the numbers proving it. If that is the case, I'm going to have to laugh my ass off that Surgiles shot themselves in the foot by inflating the numbers.

Whether or not they wanted the twitch gamers to play or not, they got them, and now they're basically trying to get rid of them. Sometimes I like the fast surgile play, other times I prefer to tank around in my rexo. It's the variety that keeps it fresh and on your toes.

They're not trying to get rid of them, they're saying "This is a different game, the same tricks don't work." If the Surgile chooses to leave, that's their choice (though I feel it is a very immature one, that's opinion). As you yourself point out, there are a variety of equally fun playstyles that have nothing to do with Surge.

I'm not defending warping. I am defending a playstyle.

As is your right. However, the playstyle is not being done away with, simply modified. You have exactly zero concrete data on how this will affect things. As I mentioned to Queensidecastle, until the patch is on the Test Server, please hold your opinions on what the effects will be to yourself, the community has gone round and round on this enough.

Exactly what statistics are available to back up this statement? How do you know that a majority of the playerbase is behind this change? How do you know that only a handful of players are going to be affected? I think you're going to be surprised, and not in a good way, how detrimental this change is going to be to the long-term health of PS.

The fact that the boards are pretty evenly divided says the majority of the playerbase supports it. Why does that work that way? Because if someone told you that anyone who had loop in their name was going to be banned, you can be damned sure everyone with "loop" in their name is going to be on the boards protesting. Those in favor would have a smaller percentage voicing their support, as theirs is the side being served. Hence, if you have 80% of the surgiles, and 50% of the rest of the player base, that would equate to a majority supporting the change. Are these solid statistics? No...but then again you have none either.

As far as it being a bad long-term desicion, refer to above. For all you know, there could be next to no effect other than to make things even...and if that kills off Surgile, that kind of tells me that it wasn't that viable of a playstyle to begin with.

[infinite loop]

Man, all I gotta say is, you have the surgile playstyle a bit misunderstood. This nerf will in fact kill it, because it centers around having a weapon out while surging. So umm, how am I supposed to continue with this playstyle again? Ok, my point is made, I'm done here.

[Krinsath]

Man, all I gotta say is, you have the surgile playstyle a bit misunderstood. This nerf will in fact kill it, because it centers around having a weapon out while surging. So umm, how am I supposed to continue with this playstyle again? Ok, my point is made, I'm done here.

Use surge to get around the guy firing at you. Why should someone who has to move down a hallway have an advantage over someone who's in a prepared firing position? Simple answer: they don't. Surgiles will need to adapt a bit perhaps, but so will all those Lasher users that now actually have to aim to kill people.

[oddfish]

yeah.. besides, one thing i think we overlook is the fact that if a human being zipped about the landscape firing a weapon he'd be so amazingly inaccurate it would be impractical to do it in the first place. I mean, i think that surging and shooting should've been so amazingly inaccurate as to be useless. let's be honest, if you're sprinting around at top speed in real life, without surge, aiming is pointless, you're bullets are gonna fly everywhere.. let's put nerfing aside, surgile+shooting=unrealistic to begin with.

[kidriot]

surgile+shooting=unrealistic to begin with

that statement is so wrong, man. ever heard of a HART picking you up in Los Angeles, taking you to orbit and dropping you out of a pod in New York? or ever seen someone get blown to shit by a tank and turn to red dust? for that matter, where�s the blood in Planetside? surely, humans in the future still bleed? or are these humans spawned from some Programmers imagination because he�s creating a video game and not a simulator?

[VashTheStamped]

i NEED 3rd person for me movies! noooooooooooo!!!

[Lartnev]

Infinite Loop I hate to tell you this, but Planetside doesn't revolve around surge.

[oddfish]

originally posted by kidriot:
that statement is so wrong, man. ever heard of a HART picking you up in Los Angeles, taking you to orbit and dropping you out of a pod in New York? or ever seen someone get blown to shit by a tank and turn to red dust? for that matter, where�s the blood in Planetside? surely, humans in the future still bleed? or are these humans spawned from some Programmers imagination because he�s creating a video game and not a simulator?

okay, here's the problem. the futuristic addition of the HART concept is part of the sci-fi space based concept of the game. no blood because having to render blood and what not might have been to hard to code or some junk. spawning is crucial to the game because that's how it works. but the aiming and shooting are based on REAL LIFE PHYSICS.. the HART and Respawn are NOT based on real life physics. if you base something in real life then it should always maintain it's real life characteristics. I can't even believe you'd compare the surgile+shooting flaw to the existence of the HART and respawning and lack of blood. that's so stupid. the aiming code in this game is based upon a realistic concept of shooting a firearm. SO, if i run and gun, no matter how fast, i should be ubelieveably inaccurate, and at close to 30mph i shouldn't be able to hit shit. that's the realism of the aiming concept. you're argument makes little to no sense as a comparison.

[Krinsath]

okay, here's the problem. the futuristic addition of the HART concept is part of the sci-fi space based concept of the game. no blood because having to render blood and what not might have been to hard to code or some junk. spawning is crucial to the game because that's how it works. but the aiming and shooting are based on REAL LIFE PHYSICS.. the HART and Respawn are NOT based on real life physics. if you base something in real life then it should always maintain it's real life characteristics. I can't even believe you'd compare the surgile+shooting flaw to the existence of the HART and respawning and lack of blood. that's so stupid. the aiming code in this game is based upon a realistic concept of shooting a firearm. SO, if i run and gun, no matter how fast, i should be ubelieveably inaccurate, and at close to 30mph i shouldn't be able to hit shit. that's the realism of the aiming concept. you're argument makes little to no sense as a comparison.

Just as an FYI, the blood was left out due to ESRB concerns and SOE wanting the game to receive the Teen rating instead of Mature....apparently, killing people = OK!...Killing people with blood = BAD!

Just another illustration of lazy parents ruining everything...if you don't want your kids to play violent video games, then don't just let them sit at the computer all day without being watched. :p Getting tired of things being left out because Little Johnnie might be warped...like he isn't going to be already with such repressed parents.

[Happy lil Elf]

You're right honestly. I probably am a bit too quick to accuse them of taking the easy way out. But like you said, we don't know, because they won't tell us! If it's a technical limitation, I will fully accept that and deal with it. But why must they dance around the issue?

As I said, I too wish they'd just come out and say it. I kinda doubt they will though.

As to why they haven't, I can give you a theoretical reason: Because companies generally don't want to publically admit to mistakes if they don't have to. Even considering how complicated PS is, and that I doubt anyone would really be up in arms about it, it's often corperate policy to not admit you messed up unless you really have to.

[Krinsath]

As I said, I too wish they'd just come out and say it. I kinda doubt they will though.

As to why they haven't, I can give you a theoretical reason: Because companies generally don't want to publically admit to mistakes if they don't have to. Even considering how complicated PS is, and that I doubt anyone would really be up in arms about it, it's often corperate policy to not admit you messed up unless you really have to.

Look at the bitchfest that's raised anytime they change what they said originally. If they come out and say "we can't fix it" and then by some lucky happenstance, they figure out "wait...if we do X" then people will come out of the woodwork screaming that the Devs KNEW it all along and just wanted to nerf Surgiles as part of some grand plot orchestrated by Sporkfire through coded messages on the forums (LOOK AT THE THIRD LETTER OF EVERY POST TITLE! HE SPELLS OUT "JH BUFF NEXT PATCH" *waits for the gullible amongst us to return*).

Conspiracy nuts are everywhere....watch your back, they're watching you. ;) (For those who missed it, that's irony)