View Full Version : Is 3rd person cheap?
Acaila
2004-03-18, 08:49 PM
Seems that 3rd person PoV is taking a bit of heat at the moment. Is it cheap or not?
Personally I don't think it is. It is in the manual, everyone has access to it, it can benefit everyone. It provides situational awareness and actually provides a defensive advantage which, in a game with CSHD, is virtually non-existant. I use it 80% of my playing time, I have it bound to my mouse wheel, it is sort of integral in how I play this game. My opinion.
Cyrus-
2004-03-18, 08:51 PM
I feel the exact same way.. bound to mouse wheel also. It's really viable in most FPS games.. it's just that in tribes 2 you have a very big advantage. But then again.. how many advantages do defensive players have in the first place?
Biohazzard56
2004-03-18, 08:52 PM
I never use third person, I want to be ready when someone comes at me.
VashTheStamped
2004-03-18, 08:54 PM
i only use 3rd person for cool screenshots or my movies = /
Dharkbayne
2004-03-18, 09:16 PM
It should be disabled inside, but outside it should work, so, the basic rule is "If you can put a spitfire there, you can use 3rd person there"
Eldanesh
2004-03-18, 09:19 PM
3rd person should not be touched Imo. Its a powerful tool that requires a reasonable amount of skill to use. But hey, why not dumb down ps some more and make everyone run around like chickens with their heads cut off? =\
Dharkbayne
2004-03-18, 09:22 PM
3rd person should not be touched Imo. Its a powerful tool that requires a reasonable amount of skill to use. But hey, why not dumb down ps some more and make everyone run around like chickens with their heads cut off? =\
What the hell are you talking about? It's about as much an exploit as warping, you can stand behind a corner, safe, and see them coming, and they don't know you're there. Not to mention using it with Darklight on to see cloakers around you.
Incompetent
2004-03-18, 09:23 PM
If you could lean out around corners I wouldn't have a problem with them taking it away, but you cant, so it should stay.
Edit: Fundamental flaw in your arguement Dhark, realistically you can just peek around the corner barely exposing anything, but in ps if you have to step out around the corner you have to expose alot of surface area. So they gave us third person to compensate.
Dharkbayne
2004-03-18, 09:29 PM
Yes, but the fact that they can see you, yet you cannot see them, at all, and they are completely safe from danger, kinda messes that up. Anyways, that's what audio amp is for.
Incompetent
2004-03-18, 09:30 PM
You think you could really shoot of my ear off in the time it takes me to slip a few square inches of surface area back around the corner while your charging up the stairs? Carry grenades or just be careful.
Dharkbayne
2004-03-18, 09:33 PM
If it's that easy, then why do you care if 3rd person was taken out?
Cyrus-
2004-03-18, 09:34 PM
Because the lean key isn't in planetside...
Incompetent
2004-03-18, 09:35 PM
Because I CAN'T lean, third person is compensation for that.
Cyrus-
2004-03-18, 09:35 PM
Way To Say What I Just Said, Incomp!!!
dumb people.. sheesh...
Dharkbayne
2004-03-18, 09:44 PM
How hard is it to just inch out around the corner quickly and go back? It exposes you for what, .3 seconds?
Incompetent
2004-03-18, 09:50 PM
It exposes a shitload more of you then it should, how is it hard to take a few simple precautions? If your that pissed off about it I can just go up another floor and shoot you when you start to hack, since you obviously have trouble with clearing an area.
Eldanesh
2004-03-18, 10:03 PM
Also 3rd person leaves you with a lot of blind spots, but it is very useful for getting one's bearings and checking surroundings. Dealing with it in towers it pathetically easy as well. Hump the blind spot along the wall on your way up and 90% of the time catch them with their pants down.
Krinsath
2004-03-18, 10:09 PM
The problem with 3rd person is it's unfortunate association with Surgile exploiters (again, this is not all Surgiles). They will stand in a tower and wait for someone to come up then flip on surge and warp around like mad.
However, on this issue I agree with Eldanesh and Incompetent, it's a compensation for abilities that you SHOULD have, but don't. There's no lean command in this game, you can't hear FOOTSTEPS in this game (explain how a guy in heavy armor like a MAX tromps up the stairs without making a sound....ask any teenager, it's damned near impossible to go up carpeted steps in socks without making a ton of noise).
There are some things that can't be coded in, and 3rd person is a sort of means of representing it.
If you're coming up stairs in an enemy tower, shouldn't your gun be drawn anyway? I know currently I've got a Punisher with a jammer grenade just waiting for that exploiter to try something...usually works too.
Taking out 3rd person is a bit too much, IMO. I don't use it because I'm too lazy to remap my keys, so I usually get killed trying...but just because I don't use something and it causes me to be killed often doesn't automatically mean it should be taken out.
Subterfuge
2004-03-18, 10:33 PM
Why dont we ban the crosshair too, because you can tell where your aiming, not like in real life. IT's so h4x!
:rolleyes:
Dharkbayne
2004-03-18, 10:36 PM
Why dont we ban the crosshair too, because you can tell where your aiming, not like in real life. IT's so h4x!
:rolleyes:
The reason it should be disabled indoors is because they are completely safe from danger and detection, yet they can see you as if they were right infront of you, then attack without warning, while knowing your EXACT position, and you didn't know they were there in the first place
Eldanesh
2004-03-18, 10:42 PM
and you didn't know they were there in the first place
This is where being extremely paranoid comes into play. Every tower I walk into I act as if there is someone in HA rexo hiding around the corner. 9/10 times there is not, however I still remain prepared, humping the blind spots are the best way not to get caught wit your pants down.
You don't have to know they are going to be defending, EXPECT IT!
Cauldron Borne
2004-03-18, 11:14 PM
umm...
If you think you are going to go into third person view, swich on DL, turn around, go BACK to 1st-person view, think again, REAL hard..
Also- If yer so worried about those nasty people who use the game to its fullest potential, may suggest the Thumper, Mr Paranoia?
AND- HEY! the cloaker can: see you with out you seeing it and kill you without you ever having a chance. OMG! N3RF T3H C10@CKER HA><><0RZ!
Krinsath
2004-03-18, 11:15 PM
The reason it should be disabled indoors is because they are completely safe from danger and detection, yet they can see you as if they were right infront of you, then attack without warning, while knowing your EXACT position, and you didn't know they were there in the first place
How is this different from a real-life trained soldier waiting and paying extremely careful attention to the environment around him to ambush an unsuspecting enemy?
The mechanism may be diferrent, but the results are the same.
I like to go in the middle of the two stairs (one leading down one up) and use third person that way I know where the person is coming from then right before they get there I surge up or down the stairs, depending on where he is coming from, and I get behind him before he really realizes what is happening and take him out.
Edit: Cheap? I guess in a way it is but, it is fair to use when you are defending a tower from 10 enemys that might hotdrop or come up the stairs.
SuperBallz
2004-03-19, 04:19 AM
What about the Nerf it is to INFs, they cant sneak up towers or in base when u use third person. you Can See Them Without DarkLight!! It Is ImPossible To Get To Some one in third person in a tower using INF.
Get A Grenade, ok, so u throw a nad next thing u know they surge down and wipe u up quick.
If someone is using crawl or silent run ur not suppose to hear them.
Leave it in for outdoor use, but drop the indoor use.
and if ur consintrating on a hack a crawling INF should have a good chance of killing u, that is the purpose of having backup.
Sry for spelling errors.
Surge
2004-03-19, 04:27 AM
In my opinion since we all have access to it, its not super cheap, but there is a HUGE exception.
Because of clipping, in some places in basements, you can actually see through walls into other sections of the basement. This can be horribly abused using boomers, nades, and other indirect weapons (maelstrom mostly). In addition to this, you can see the enemy WELL before they can see you.
I won't tell you exactly where this location (there are actually many locations) of seeing through walls is, i'll just say go into the basement of almost any facility, crouch, and SLOWLY turn your player away from the wall in 3rd person mode. As the perspective moves closer to the wall it will begin to zoome in (because the camera is restricted) but as some spots you can actually see through the walls to other locations in the base. Doing this is impossible in first person.
I personally like the theory of "if you can put a spitfire there, you can use 3rd person there." Because it will allow you to view in from exterior doors (and make sure there's not a mob there :))
GAJ VESTITE
2004-03-19, 04:53 AM
3rd person needs a little aiming cross in the middle so u can use it to kill!
Eldanesh
2004-03-19, 05:27 AM
What about the Nerf it is to INFs, they cant sneak up towers or in base when u use third person. you Can See Them Without DarkLight!! It Is ImPossible To Get To Some one in third person in a tower using INF.
Get A Grenade, ok, so u throw a nad next thing u know they surge down and wipe u up quick.
Its really not that hard to see infiltrators in any view, 3rd person or otherwise. In fact, I don't know exactly what you mean when you complain about seeing infils without DL as a 3rd-person only kinda thing.
Now whenever I hack a tower I sit with 3rd peron on, sometimes it saves me, however if the cloaker tries to hide in a corner and throw grenades at me, they are going to die. If they run up and stick a beamer in my back, I will probably die before I can turn off 3rd, surge out, medkit and draw jh.
Lartnev
2004-03-19, 09:01 AM
Where is the "yes for infantry, no for vehicles" option? :rolleyes:
Stellerence
2004-03-19, 09:15 AM
I think it should stay, its a bit late to remove it now its a part of everyones play, seems to me the devs are listening to any random idea, in fact ideas i once laughed and thinking they were some kind of debate that would rise and fall are getting done, like removing surge (lets face it, it wont be used after). Switching Deci to AV (i benefitted though) and now removing third person view. I just wonder what other idea some-one brought up i can't remember, maybe it will be the crosshair nerf next?
Madcow
2004-03-19, 09:22 AM
Its really not that hard to see infiltrators in any view, 3rd person or otherwise. In fact, I don't know exactly what you mean when you complain about seeing infils without DL as a 3rd-person only kinda thing.
He just means that zoomed out in 3rd person an infil is much easier to spot against textures (indoors) than he would normally be. Perhaps you would pick them out anyhow, but there are many people who wouldn't. Honestly, that doesn't concern me all that much but there is a point there.
I think that Darklight should be completely disabled in 3rd person. I've used it myself in the past, but it makes absolutely no sense to be able to do an instant 360 degree scan to make sure no cloaker is coming up on you. Paranoid snipers can be near impossible to get to as all they have to do is quickly toggle third person, flick Darklight, toggle back to first person, take their shot, continue pattern. That's far more efficient than than the alternative. Plus, I think we'd see more use of Audio Amp if they did that and diversity in implants would please me.
Krinsath
2004-03-19, 09:24 AM
I think it should stay, its a bit late to remove it now its a part of everyones play, seems to me the devs are listening to any random idea, in fact ideas i once laughed and thinking they were some kind of debate that would rise and fall are getting done, like removing surge (lets face it, it wont be used after). Switching Deci to AV (i benefitted though) and now removing third person view. I just wonder what other idea some-one brought up i can't remember, maybe it will be the crosshair nerf next?
Surge is not being removed. If they take out the ability to exploit using Surge and people stop using it, then that doesn't speak very highly about the wisdom of leaving it in. Surgiles will still exist though, will still be effective, and will finally be able to shake the mantle of being "exploiters" and "cheaters" that so many are quick to slap on them. Remember folks: Not every Surgile is an exploiter...it's just unfortunate that a large number of the exploiters are Surgiles.
Decimator always belonged in AV, never understood why it wasn't from the beginning. It's good against vehicles and MAXes, the things AV is designed to counter. What part of that switch DIDN'T make sense? Leaving it as SA is what didn't make sense, as SA was a no-brainer cert with everything else you got.
3rd person won't go away. They might limit it's usefulness indoors perhaps, but it'll still be there. Vehicle drivers at a minimum need it, especially Prowler drivers.
Krinsath
2004-03-19, 09:26 AM
I think that Darklight should be completely disabled in 3rd person. I've used it myself in the past, but it makes absolutely no sense to be able to do an instant 360 degree scan to make sure no cloaker is coming up on you. Paranoid cloakers can be near impossible to get to as all they have to do is quickly toggle third person, flick Darklight, toggle back to first person, take their shot, continue pattern. That's far more efficient than than the alternative. Plus, I think we'd see more use of Audio Amp if they did that and diversity in implants would please me.
Ok...yes, I totally agree with that part. Darklight should only work if you're in 1st person (since it's an implant in your EYE) but 3rd person as a concept should not be removed.
SuperBallz
2004-03-19, 10:32 AM
[QUOTE=Eldanesh]Its really not that hard to see infiltrators in any view, 3rd person or otherwise. In fact, I don't know exactly what you mean when you complain about seeing infils without DL as a 3rd-person only kinda thing.QUOTE]
OK, U Hack A Tower Turn and hit 3rd person, ur safely out of sight.
INF see u capped tower and slows to a crawl cuz u may be coming down or ready for him to come up.
He Strafes to far left to see if ur on top of stairs, not aware nme is in 3rd person, and comtinues up stairs, opted not to through nade cuz it woulld give postion away, next think u know out pops nme mows him down.
Even in 3rd person te INF has no chance of seeing u.
This Is A First Person Shooter Not a 3rd Person Shooter.
And This Doesn't only happens to INFs but any suit, Gives a soldier time to pull deci and wipe out a MAX.
Just don't Seem Right.
Krinsath
2004-03-19, 10:39 AM
The cloaker example you use is somewhat valid, except that a soldier standing motionless and WAITING for the enemy could pick up on subtle clues, like the sound of footsteps or just a "smell" that the ionized air around a cloaker gives off. Neither of those possibilities (which occur often in real-life...minus the invisible guy part...but the fact that soldiers get some subtle clue that lets them spring an ambush unseen) are accounted for any other way.
Using DL in 3rd person is kind of cheap, but really, that's because you're using an eye enhancement in a 3rd person view...which is not your eyes. That's about the only change I'd make.
Simple rule in any tower fight, until you have secured the area, your weapon should be drawn. Simple practice. Once Surge exploiting in these situations is reduced, it won't be nearly as overpowering of a tactic as it is currently.
Incompetent
2004-03-19, 10:44 AM
God, how could I be so misguided. I mean, actually wanting the defenders to have a chance, instead of rigging everything in the offenses favor. Fuck me, I'm an asshole, I can't even remember the the offense is always supposed to have the advantage or at the very least be on even ground. I keep forgeting that your not supposed to actually hold the ground you take, your just supposed to keep zerging in an endless circle.
Note, for you rather dim folks (you know who you are... well, at least the rest of us do) this post was intended as sarcasm
On a lighter note, is english your first language Superballz? Not trying to be insulting but there are alot more grammatical errors in there then your average post.
Edit: Third person darklight is cheap though, I agree.
SuperBallz
2004-03-19, 10:50 AM
Understood.
Surge Being Removed Will Only Hurt True Exploiters Of The Warp-a-Kill.
And For JH Users, Don't Bring A Shotgun To A Sniper Fight, ;)
If U Have To Close Ground Then Use Trees And Have REXO so u can have a long range weapon, Since surge is getting fixed. :groovy:
I am Sure Everyone Will Adapt or they can go play Trophy Hunter 2003. :eek:
LOL
Sry, Didn't know we were Graded on Spelling :P
Lartnev
2004-03-19, 01:13 PM
Hmmm, why has the topic decended into a surge debate :(
oddfish
2004-03-19, 01:18 PM
ahem.. back on topic.. i'm still of the mind that adding lean and a way to turn one's head to the game would be great when playing as infantry. it's an elementary addition to any kind of FPS combat anymore. the only games that don't have it are the Quake and UT type games that involve less tactic and more SHOOTHEFUCKOUTOFEVERYONEOMFGKILLTHEMUHFUCKKAOMFGWT FOMFG!!!!111
Happy lil Elf
2004-03-19, 04:18 PM
I consider it compensation for the immense lack of any kind of cool futuristic sensor thingys.
If I look at a contient I should not only be able to see how many enemies are in a particular SOI (that's number, not general size) but where they are in that SOI as well discounting cloakers of course. I should be able to target other aircraft using this impossibly futuristic thing known as a "HUD" and it should give me relevant target information. Advanced targeting shouldn't be an implant you get if you want to drive a vehicle, it's something that should come built into said vehicle.
That and a decent radar for air fights would be nice, although until there's an actual flight engine it doesn't make a huge difference. Also, if you're not going to give me a radar that's worth a damn, could I maybe, just maybe look out of my cockpit in a direction other than straight forward?
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