PC Built! Can an Overclocker help me?

[Vitter]

Ok, in 2 days my PC will be finished. Here are the final parts, most of these (especially the ones relating to OC'ing) have a link to the NewEgg page which provides detailed information, reviews, and a link to the manufacturers page:

Power: 550W Aztec
Cooling: 4x80mm fans (2 front, 2 back) not counting Power Supply fan.
Motherboard: (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-131-464&depa=1) Asus P4C800-E Deluxe (800Mhz FSB)
Processor: (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-116-161&depa=1) P4C 2.8 Ghz (800Mhz FSB)
Memory: (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-146-934&depa=1) 2x512 (1GB) OCZ Dual Channel EL Gold DDR500 (PC4000)
HardDrive: (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=22-148-018&depa=1) Seagate 7200Mhz Serial ATA 160gig
**Note: Later i'll probably upgrade this to two 10,000 RPM 76gb SATA HD's running on RAID0
Video Card: 256MB ATI Radeon 9800 Pro
Sound Card: SB Audigy Live

Before you (an experienced PC Builder and, hoperfully, overclocker) read on, please feel free to advice me on the wisdom of whether or not I should overlock this PC.

As this PC was being built I went through the effort to look up several guides on overclocking. I learned alot of stuff about latencies and frequencies. However, I did NOT find any actual "How To" guides.

The decision to overclock was recently made after I read through the manual of my motherboard (link above) and found it to be VERY overclock friendly. The manual gives a full list of all the options available to overclockers in the Bios. The manual, however, did NOT give me advice on how I should go about overclocking. For instance, what categories to tinker with in what order and at what ratio.

This is why i'm here. I'm hoping an experienced overclocker can guide me through all the categories (which i've provided below) and offer me advice as to what I should do with each setting in the Bios to insure a safe and succesful overclocking experience.

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The following are the categories and settings inside Bios that can be modified. I've taken the liberty to jot down the category, settings, and a short description of each. The word in brackets [] next to each setting (but before the description) is the default.

Inside the Advanced Menu is a list of categories. The list of settings inside each category follows. The first of the categories is:

JumperFree Configuration

AI Overclock Tuner [Standard]

Allows selection of CPU overclocking options to achieve desired CPU intenal frequency. Select either one of the preset overclocking options.
Configuration options: [Manual], [Standard], [Overclock 5%], [Overclock 10%], [Overclock 20%], [Overclock 30%]

CPU Ratio [18]

Sets the ratio between the CPU core clock and the FSB frequency.
Note: This item appears only if you are using an unlocked CPU.

Performance Mode [Auto]

Allows enhanced sysyems performance. Configuration options: [Auto], [Standard], [Turbo].

When you set the AI Overclocking Tuner item to [Manual] the related overclocking items appear:

CPU External Frequency (MHz) [XXX] (value is auto detected)

Indicated the frequency sent by the clock generator to the system bus and PCI bus. The bus frequency (external frequency) multiplied by the bus multiple equals the CPU speed. The value of this item is auto detected by BIOS. The values range from 100-400.

DRAM Frequency [Auto]

Allows you to set the DDR operating frequency.
Configuration options: [266 MHz], [333 MHz], [400MHz], [Auto]

AGP/PCI Frequency (MHz) [Auto]

allows you to adjust to a higher AGP/PCI frequency for better system performance and overclocking capability.
Configuration options: [Auto], [66.66/33.33], [72.73/36.36], [80.00/40.00]

CPU VCore Voltage [Auto]

Allows you to select a specific CPU VCore Voltage.
Configuration options: [Auto], [1.6000V] ... [1.4750V]

DDR Referance Voltage [Auto]

Allows selection of the DDR SDRAM operating voltage.
Configuration options: [2.85V], [2.85V], [2.75V], [2.65V], [2.55V], [Auto]

AGP VDDQ Voltage [1.50V]

Allows selection of the AGP operating voltage.
Configuration options: [1.80V], [1.70V], [1.60V], [1.50V]

CPU Configuration

Hyper Threading Technology [Enabled]

This item allows you to enable or disable the processor Hyper Threading Technology.
Configuration options: [Disabled], [Enabled]

Chipset

Configure DRAM Timing by SPD [Enabled]

When this item is enabled, the DRAM timing parameters are set according to the DRAM SPD (Serial Presence Detect). When disabled you can manually set the DRAM timing parameters through the DRAM sub-items.
Configuration options: [Disabled], [Enabled]

Performance Acceleration Mode [Auto]

Allows boost in system performance.
Configuration options: [Auto], [Enabled]

DRAM Idle Timer [Auto]

Configuration options , [0T], [8T], [16T], [64T], [Auto]

DRAM Refresh Mode [Auto]

Configuration modes: [Auto], [15.6 uSec], [7.8 uSec], [64 uSec], [Auto]

Graphic Adapter Priority [APG/PCI]

Allows selection of the graphics controller to use as primary boot device.
Configuration options: [AGP/PCI], [PCI/AGP]

Graphics Aperture Size [64MB]

Allows you to select the size of mapped memory for AGP graphic data.
Configuration options: [4MB], [8MB], [16MB], [32MB], [64MB], [128MB], [256MB]

Spread Spectrum [Enabled]

Configuration options: [Disabled], [Enabled]

ICH Delayed Transaction [Enabled]

Configuration options: [Disabled], [Enabled]

MPS Revision [1.4]

Configuration options: [1.1], [1.4]

[i]The following items appear only when the item Configure DRAM Timing by SPD is set to [Disabled].

DRAM CAS# Latency [2.5 Clocks]

Configuration options: [2.0 Clocks], [2.5 Clocks], [3.0 Clocks]

DRAM RAS# Precharge [4 Clocks]

Configuration options: [4 Clocks], [3 Clocks], [2 Clocks]

DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay [4 Clocks]

Configuration options: [4 Clocks], [3Clocks], [2 Clocks]

DRAM Precharge Delay [8 Clocks]

Configuration options: [8Clocks], [7 Clocks], [6 Clocks], [5 Clocks]

DRAM Burst Length [4 Clocks]

Configuration options: [4 Clocks], [8 Clocks]

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The following were also under the Advanced Menu but did not appear to be of any use in overlocking so i will just give the title of the categories. If you'd like I can expand on them.


Onboard Devices Configuration

PCI PNP

USB Configuration

Speech Configuration

Instant Music Configuration

[Rbstr]

DUDE hell yeah you got ddr500!!!, woot you need to OC your FSB(external thingymajig) to 250 and reaps the uberness of 1000mhz FSB

You may want to go out and buy a nice solid copper cooler for your CPU, as the stock may not handle the heat.

put the ddr speed on auto i think.


i have the P4P800 you mobo's little bro with the 865 shipset instead.

also make sure PAT(performance thing in the chipset menu) is enabled, its should be under the chipset

to start just up the FSB some MHZ and test it out, 10 is a good starting number

[Vitter]

While you posted that I was editing the original post, specifically with the options for memory overclocking.

Could you go through and show me, step by step, which options I need to change in order to overclock?

In the post I give the settings and the available options so all you have to do is cut and paste. :)

[NoSurrender]

gradualy go up and up learn how much your CPU can handle.

[Vitter]

I realize that, but I don't know which things to tinker with first and what ratios to keep things at.

[NoSurrender]

gradually increase your FSB. Being careful when overclocking is key unless you have unlimited income.

[Vitter]

I think i'll wait for someone who is experienced with overclocking and patient enough to walk me through it (which was why I posted all the settings and options) to come and post before I make any changes though.

Thanks for your help though.

[Rbstr]

AI Overclock Tuner [Standard]

Allows selection of CPU overclocking options to achieve desired CPU intenal frequency. Select either one of the preset overclocking options.
Configuration options: [Manual], [Standard], [Overclock 5%], [Overclock 10%], [Overclock 20%], [Overclock 30%]


set that to manual


CPU Ratio [18]

Sets the ratio between the CPU core clock and the FSB frequency.
Note: This item appears only if you are using an unlocked CPU.


thats locked, you can't change your multiplier

Performance Mode [Auto]

Allows enhanced sysyems performance. Configuration options: [Auto], [Standard], [Turbo].

go ahead and put that on turbo, unless it make you unstable


When you set the AI Overclocking Tuner item to [Manual] the related overclocking items appear:

CPU External Frequency (MHz) [XXX] (value is auto detected)

Indicated the frequency sent by the clock generator to the system bus and PCI bus. The bus frequency (external frequency) multiplied by the bus multiple equals the CPU speed. The value of this item is auto detected by BIOS. The values range from 100-400.


ok that is your FSB speed, the 800mhz FSB speed you know of is 4x that, as teh P4 uses a quad pumped bus. When i say 1000mhz FSB set it to 250, basicaly, also times that by two for your Memory speed


DRAM Frequency [Auto]

Allows you to set the DDR operating frequency.
Configuration options: [266 MHz], [333 MHz], [400MHz], [Auto]


i woudl set it to 400 unless you are ocing, if you can get the FSB up to 250 lik e i have said before you may get a 500mhz option, if not i would set it to auto



AGP/PCI Frequency (MHz) [Auto]

allows you to adjust to a higher AGP/PCI frequency for better system performance and overclocking capability.
Configuration options: [Auto], [66.66/33.33], [72.73/36.36], [80.00/40.00]

CPU VCore Voltage [Auto]

Allows you to select a specific CPU VCore Voltage.
Configuration options: [Auto], [1.6000V] ... [1.4750V]

DDR Referance Voltage [Auto]

Allows selection of the DDR SDRAM operating voltage.
Configuration options: [2.85V], [2.85V], [2.75V], [2.65V], [2.55V], [Auto]

AGP VDDQ Voltage [1.50V]

Allows selection of the AGP operating voltage.
Configuration options: [1.80V], [1.70V], [1.60V], [1.50V]


keep those at thier defualts,


Hyper Threading Technology [Enabled]

This item allows you to enable or disable the processor Hyper Threading Technology.
Configuration options: [Disabled], [Enabled]


i would enable that if you do alsot of office things or rendering stuff, that involves multitasking, for PS its best to leave it off


Chipset

Configure DRAM Timing by SPD [Enabled]

When this item is enabled, the DRAM timing parameters are set according to the DRAM SPD (Serial Presence Detect). When disabled you can manually set the DRAM timing parameters through the DRAM sub-items.
Configuration options: [Disabled], [Enabled]


ok if you have your memory packaging you shoudl disable that and set the timins manualy according to the manual (also try to get it as low as you can get it as long as its stable)


Performance Acceleration Mode [Auto]

Allows boost in system performance.
Configuration options: [Auto], [Enabled]



thats also called PAT it can impro performance by up to 5%


DRAM Idle Timer [Auto]

Configuration options , [0T], [8T], [16T], [64T], [Auto]

DRAM Refresh Mode [Auto]

Configuration modes: [Auto], [15.6 uSec], [7.8 uSec], [64 uSec], [Auto]



I woudl keep those at defualt


Graphic Adapter Priority [APG/PCI]

Allows selection of the graphics controller to use as primary boot device.
Configuration options: [AGP/PCI], [PCI/AGP]



agp/pci, defualt



Graphics Aperture Size [64MB]

Allows you to select the size of mapped memory for AGP graphic data.
Configuration options: [4MB], [8MB], [16MB], [32MB], [64MB], [128MB], [256MB]



alot of peopl say different things i woudl set it equal to you Vidcards memory


Spread Spectrum [Enabled]

Configuration options: [Disabled], [Enabled]

ICH Delayed Transaction [Enabled]

Configuration options: [Disabled], [Enabled]

MPS Revision [1.4]

Configuration options: [1.1], [1.4]



i don't know about hose just keep them normal


[i]The following items appear only when the item Configure DRAM Timing by SPD is set to [Disabled].

DRAM CAS# Latency [2.5 Clocks]

Configuration options: [2.0 Clocks], [2.5 Clocks], [3.0 Clocks]

DRAM RAS# Precharge [4 Clocks]

Configuration options: [4 Clocks], [3 Clocks], [2 Clocks]

DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay [4 Clocks]

Configuration options: [4 Clocks], [3Clocks], [2 Clocks]

DRAM Precharge Delay [8 Clocks]

Configuration options: [8Clocks], [7 Clocks], [6 Clocks], [5 Clocks]

DRAM Burst Length [4 Clocks]

Configuration options: [4 Clocks], [8 Clocks]


thats whe you diable SPD timings right, do what i said above


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The following were also under the Advanced Menu but did not appear to be of any use in overlocking so i will just give the title of the categories. If you'd like I can expand on them.


Onboard Devices Configuration

PCI PNP

USB Configuration

Speech Configuration

Instant Music Configuration

[/quote]

don't worry about those

[Vitter]

Thanks a TON for your great post Rbstr! I have a few questions remaining.

[In regards to CPU External Frequency (MHz)]
ok that is your FSB speed, the 800mhz FSB speed you know of is 4x that, as teh P4 uses a quad pumped bus. When i say 1000mhz FSB set it to 250, basicaly, also times that by two for your Memory speed

So I should put it to 250 for 1000 FSB? Ok.

What do you mean by "times that by two for your memory speed"?

[In regards to Configure DRAM Timing by SPD and the latency timings]
ok if you have your memory packaging you shoudl disable that and set the timins manualy according to the manual (also try to get it as low as you can get it as long as its stable)

The RAM I got (LINK) (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-146-934&depa=1) has base timings of 2.5-4-4-8 and 4.0 Obviously these are very low. However, OCZ EL Gold RAM is MADE for overclocking. In the reviews (and in the reviews of the single chip) people have reported that they could lower the timings down to CL 2,2,2,5 @ 2.85v. The review above that one said he had his bandwidth up to 5.3 GB/s.

How do I go about lowering these timings besides manually lowering them? Do I need to keep a ratio involved with the bandwitdth? Frequency? or even the FSB or something else? Or can I just hop in and lower the timings without changing other things?

[Rbstr]

DDR is double data rate, memoy normaly runs at FSB * 2, thats what the double means.

Those timings are acctualy not bad for DDR500 memory
to lower timings thats all you have to do
the higher voltage could result in a shorter life of the memory

[Vitter]

So if i'm raising my FSB to 1,000 then I should make my DDR run at 2,000? 2,000 what?

I heard on some other forums that timings are the main thing for games. Do you agree? If so, do you think making it 2,2,2,5 @ 2.85v is bad? It is orginally supposed to run at 2.8V. How much would that lower the life expectancy?

[EDIT] Oh, and how do I go about raising the bandwidth like that one guy did (4.0 to 5.3 GB/s)? Does it happen automatically when I lower the timings?

[EDIT2] FSB typo

[Vitter]

So far you've suggested that I raise my FSB to 1k, enable PAT, set Performance Mode to Turbo, and set my Graphic Apeture to equal my vid card's memory.

We're also discussing possibly lowering the timing on my memory.

Do you recomend I do anything involving raising the frequency of my processor? I hear people all the time saying they made a 2.5 P4 go up to 3.3 or something. Do I need to do that?

[EDIT] FSB typo

[Vitter]

I'm running through all the advice i've gotten and making a list of configuration changes. This is basically a summary of all the advice i've gotten (as far as i understand it, which maybe i don't) from this site, amdmb.com, and guru3d.com. Could one of you please go through and examine these changes and tell me if they are correct?

--> [Changed Configuration]

AI Overclock Tuner [Standard] --> [Manual]

Performance Mode [Auto] --> [Turbo]

CPU External Frequency (MHz) [XXX] --> [250]

DRAM Frequency [Auto] --> [Auto] OR [400MHz]
[i] I've gotten mixed advice on this. Can anyone give some clarity?

AGP/PCI Frequency (MHz) [Auto] --> [66.66/33.33]

CPU VCore Voltage [Auto] --> ???
I haven't got much advice on what I should start this out as and how I should test it or how much I should incrementaly increase this. According to NewEgg the voltage of my processor is 1.525V

DDR Referance Voltage [Auto] --> [2.75]
It was suggested I change this to 2.75. However, my DDR is supposed to run at 2.8 default. Should I still do 2.75? Can someone give me some advice on where to start this, how to test it, and how much to raise it incrementally?

Graphics Aperture Size [64MB] --> [256MB]

Performance Acceleration Mode [Auto] --> [Enabled]

Configure DRAM Timing by SPD [Enabled] --> [Disabled]

Timings --> Incrementally lower them by 1 point until booting fails. Then raise the voltage slightly and increase tightening.
Is this correct?

Thanks :)

[Rbstr]

First post.
You fsb to be at 1k 250 * 4 = 1000

Your memory wil be running at 500, 250 * 2 = 500

I would leave your timings at the manufacturer recomendation for now with ddr500 you have alot of bandwidth.

You bandwidth is measured in GB's a second, its your DDR frequency times by the width of the bus but i forgot what that is.

Second post:

RAsing your FBS speed makes your CPU go faster. my example:

I have a 2.4gh celron, it has a 400mhz FSB (100 * 4) i raised that to 468(117 * 4) that makes my CPU run at 2.81ghz

Third Post:
I'll go by number top to bottom
1. you want manual
2. turbo is good
3. yep, but you may want to old off on the 1k fsb for now, or atleast gradualy work up to it, you have stock cooling correct? that probably can't handel it i'll give you some cooling options (very worth the extra performance)
4. i would set it to auto, unless when you have oced the FSB it gives you more options(433, 466, 500 ect)
5. leave that on auto
6. keep that on auto though increasing it a VERY small amount may help stability if even with good cooling your crashing at 1k fsb (this is how people fry thier CPU's)
7. If your memory says it should run at 2.8 i would you'l have more stability
8. you good there
9. yep
10. correct
11. yes but i woudl leave teh voltage at 2.8 as your memory says and get them as low as possible withough stability problems and leave it at that.

You seem to understand this preaty well.

some cooling links(be sure to buy some thermal paste with these):

these need fans(i would get an 80mm that has temp controled speed)
Uber air cooler: http://www.frozencpu.com/cgi-bin/frozencpu/cpu-tri-07.html
Less uber but still very good: http://www.frozencpu.com/cgi-bin/frozencpu/cpu-tri-08.html

no need for a fan on these
quiet very cool, may not fit on Mobo: http://www.frozencpu.com/cgi-bin/frozencpu/cpu-zal-11.html
mine cheaper comes with temp sensor and rhetostat can be LOUD or quiet: http://www.buyxtremegear.com/a1715.html

[Ait'al]

The Zalmans fits on the P4C800-E.

[Rbstr]

thats the one i would go for then

BTW you have to post benches of you machine, and you PS fps

[Ait'al]

Him or me?

[Rbstr]

him

[Marsman]

As someone suggested, you may wish to ramp up your FSB freq slowly and not try to jump all the way to 250 in one step. Try in steps of 10 or 5 as you get closer to the magic number.

In AMD's a least, as you get near the unstable point, you can extend the upper end by making a "slight" increase to the CPU core voltage. (.05 to .1 volt increments) Each increase will create more CPU heat so good cooling is a must. I'm assuming P4's will go a little further with a higher core voltage like AMD will, but a P4 guru may want to confirm this.

[Rbstr]

yeah they do, sometimes

[Electrofreak]

::Electrofreak senses Marsman encroaching on his AMD territory...::

:rawr:

[Vitter]

Ok, after looking through the cooling systems I decided to get:

A Thermalright SP-94 - Socket 478 w/ Mounts (http://www.frozencpu.com/cgi-bin/frozencpu/cpu-tri-07.html?mv_pc=173) for the CPU cooler with a 80mm Panaflo U1A Fan (http://www.frozencpu.com/cgi-bin/frozencpu/fan-64.html?mv_pc=174) which puts out 46.9 CFM @ 3450 RPM w/ 38.2 db level. The fan was untailed so I got a 3-pin Panaflo Fan Tail (http://www.frozencpu.com/cgi-bin/frozencpu/cab-02.html?mv_pc=175) to connect it to the MB (it came with the option to get a 4-pin, but I want the 3-pin for processor fan, right?).

In addition I got a vial of Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Paste - 3.5 Grams (http://www.frozencpu.com/cgi-bin/frozencpu/thr-16.html?mv_pc=176).

Combine all this with the 4x80mm fans I already have (2 in back, 2 in front) and i'm hoping this will provide sufficient cooling.

I'm going to hold off ordering the stuff until tonight to give you guys time to look this over and decide if it will be satisfactory or not.

[Rbstr]

i would get the 3 pin, liek you got, as thats what most fan controlers need, as you can always get a 3-4 pin adapter.

You should have decent cooling, two up front are intake and the two in back are exhuast? if not flip em around as that will hamper airflow the other way.

That should cool just fine, make sure with the AS5 that you don't get it on the mobo or anything else but the heatsink and the integrated heat speader on the CPU(the top) if you do you can short the circuts on the mobo.

Th eonly other thing i can think of is a Fan controler thing, so you don't have to have it on full blast constantly.

[Vitter]

Cool, thanks RBSTR.

Question 1: If I cannot get my FSB all the way to 250, let's say I can only get it to 240, should I keep my DRAM Frequency at 500? Or should I lower it down to 480 for 1:1? Keep in mind that I will be attempting to lower my timings as much as possible.

Question 2: What would prevent me from going all the way to 250? Does it just start becoming unstable? I'm thinking so based on the advice you gave. So do you recomend I increase it slowly (by 10 maybe), then test it (what do you recomend testing it with), and raise more if it's stable?

Question 3: If, in question 2, I reach a point where it isn't unstable what should I raise my CPU VCore Voltage by? .05? .001?

Question 4: Before I even begin overclocking what should i set my CPU VCore Voltage to as a base? My CPU is a P4C 2.8 GHz and, according to NewEgg, is Voltage:1.525V.

Question 5: Do you recomend I tighten my timings as much as possible first (perhaps requiring the DDR Referance Voltage to be increased), and then increase the FSB? Or should I do it the other way and increase the FSB first?

[Rbstr]

#1 i would test it at each and see what's best

#2 Yes it would give BSOD's and can even make CTD's happen more often. Your chip should be able to handel it as most can but all chips are a little bit different. the memory coudl cause it, and the heat could cause it, its realy hard to say.

I woudl first run it though Aquamark3 and 3dmark 03. Then play PS, or COD, some newer game you have on it for a while. Basicaly turn it on and clock it up, do some benches and then play some games, for and hour or so, when you normaly do, if its stable OC it a bit more the next day or the one after.

#3 i woudl raise it by the smalles amount possible, but i think if its on auto the board will acctualy keep it at the right spot for you

#4 same as up ther, keep it on auto at first, if that has stability problmes up it as little as possible to make it stable. and if you get goin up higher than a few times you may not want to risk the CPU over the sweet oc, thats for you to decide

#5 i would wait till you have your OC done then get yout timings low

[Vitter]

#3 i woudl raise it by the smalles amount possible, but i think if its on auto the board will acctualy keep it at the right spot for you

You mean the Asus P4C800-E Deluxe will actually increase my voltage automatically when it detects things getting unstable?

[Rbstr]

i'm not sure but it has an auto mode.

ASUS realy made this board with the intention of OCer so it may up it according to the OC or something like you said. if it doesn't work just do it manualy

[Vitter]

Ok, cool. Thanks a ton for your help with all this Rbstr (and everyone else). My cooling stuff will be here in a few days and i'll post how the OCing goes.

Thanks again!

[Rbstr]

No problem