Ammo opinion time

[BadAsh]

I think they should beef shotgun shell and 9mm bullet ammo boxes. The shotgun shell boxes should go back up to 32 shells and the 9mm should go from 50 to 100.

This would make these ammo types more consistant with the VS energy cells and the new VA ammo capacities and new 2x sniper round capacity.

Personally, I'd rather more ammo per box and be able fit other stuff in my inventory loadouts. Having to carry tons of ammo just to last a few fire fights if you are NC or TR is not really fair. Rather then nerf the VS ammo, I'd rather see the NC and TR brought up to their level.

I don't think many players would have a problem with this. Cloakers should love it along with everyone else.

This won't turn infantry into super soldiers, but might help save a few trips back to that AMS or equipment terminal and let you stay in the action. This should be your reward for lasting long enough in the first place... having enough ammo to "keep on keepin on" which is HARD enough for a grunt in the first place.

[Dharkbayne]

No. Considering it takes 3 shots from a Jackhammer or MagScatter to kill anything under Rexo at close range, and over 20 to kill a rexo with MCG last time I checked, it's even. If anything needs buffed, it's the MCG, 2 boxes for one clip, yet the vanu get 2 clips per box

[LimpBIT]

well the only thing i wanna see happen is put the jackhammer reload time back to where it used to be. The ammo can stay the same as long as they do that.

[Acaila]

An MCG takes 13 shots to kill a rexo at close range, which is about as likely as a JH only taking the optimal 3 shots.

I agree, buff ammo boxes. Screw this "soldiers in real life have to manage their ammo" shit. Excessive inventory micro-management is frustrating and who likes being frustrated?

[BadAsh]

No. Considering it takes 3 shots from a Jackhammer or MagScatter to kill anything under Rexo at close range, and over 20 to kill a rexo with MCG last time I checked, it's even. If anything needs buffed, it's the MCG, 2 boxes for one clip, yet the vanu get 2 clips per box

I hear ya man, but the jack and scatter are STILL that effective even with less ammo, so that remains unchanged. And there is the fact pointed out here:

An MCG takes 13 shots to kill a rexo at close range, which is about as likely as a JH only taking the optimal 3 shots.

So a jack with 16 rounds could get 5 kills and some change (1 shot left) with 1 clip of ammo

While a MCG with 100 rounds could get 7 kills and some change (9 rounds left) with 1 clip of ammo

Could is the key word here as this will almost never happen... Add any range to a fight with the Jackhammer and it's pretty much useless... at a mere 25m the jack takes 16 direct hits to drop an Agile... what a joke... And with the MCG if you add any range and a moving target there is no way you will hit with most of the rounds you spray out.

The killing potential for each weapon is devastating, but does not have the ability to sustain such firepower as other heavy weapons (lasher, AV, sniper, Tanks, MAX units, etc.)

Plus remember the boon this ammo buff would give to cloakers and MA armed troops... now cyclers and gauss rifles could carry as much ammo as a Pulsar and the AMP pistol could get a few more kills before it runs the cloaker out of ammo.

Again, this is not a beef to weapon power... it's just a slight reduction in support reliance for infantry...

[Lartnev]

The AV needed more ammo, not sure infantry do apart from the MCG perhaps. I'd be indifferent to ammo changes :)

[Dizik]

I honestly have no complaints whatsoever about ammo boxes. Or anything else in the game.

[SilverLord]

I agree that the MCG ammo boxes need upped. It takes 20 shots to kill a rexo and thats just to kill him, thats not counting all the missed shots.

[SuperSixOne]

i disagree. you work with what you have. Im a support player i hafto cary around medapp / med goo / rek / cud / Pheonix/ Pheonix Ammo / Glue gun / Bank / Engy goo and im rexo. I bareley have enough room for my JH ammo so i make due and only cary two maybe three boxes if im lucky. And only two PX ammo boxes. Im fine with this because im trading my combat ability to cary support equip.

[BadAsh]

My issue with the ammo �problem� is that the TR and NC have a harder time with ammo supply than the VS do. Consider the following:

Jackhammer: one box of ammo = 1 clip size
MCG: one ammo box = � clip size (but the MCG has a HUGE magazine)
Lasher: one ammo box = 2 clips of ammo

Important Note #1: In addition to having 2 times the firepower the VS also are not required to carry special Armor Piercing Ammunition, so if carried this further clutters the inventories of the NC and TR grunt.

Important Note #2: The NC are further hampered if they are using MA and HA as these weapons require 2 different ammo types (Jack = shot gun shells; Gauss = 9mm rounds). The VS use one ammo type for everything and the TR�s HA and MA both use the 9mm. Therefore a NC grunt has the worst inventory jumble if trying to use a Jack for close encounters and a Gauss for longer engagements. You could end up with 4 different ammo types in your inventory (shells both AI and AP and 9mm rounds in AI and AP variations).

As a VS grunt my only real problem is with getting killed. I can fight, fall back, heal/repair, and then return to the fight.

As a TR grunt I have an additional ammo problem other then just getting killed I have a very real possibility if running out of ammo. So I can fight, fall back, heal/repair, and then return to the fight provided I still have enough ammo.

As a NC grunt I have an additional ammo problem other then just getting killed I have a very real possibility if running out of ammo. So I can fight, fall back, heal/repair, and then return to the fight provided I still have enough ammo.

So to summarize, a VS soldier does not have the same ammo problems that the TR and worst of all the NC grunts have to worry about. As NC I am finding myself running out of ammo in nasty situations. And I think it sucks to successfully dodge/survive enemy tanks, aircraft, MAX Units, snipers, and cloakers while engaging and killing several enemy infantry only to die because you either ran out of ammo or were forced to loot in a tight situation just to keep going. Meanwhile as a VS grunt I can fight for days (well not days, but surely TWICE as long) and keep on going with an identical inventory load out (ammo to stuff ratio).

This comes into play often in tuff tower fights, outdoors, and guarding the rear entrance of a base. Having to leave your post to get more ammo can cost you the whole battle by letting areas overrun.

To be fair I think the TR and NC should be allowed to carry more ammo per box. The VS would still have the advantage of versatility by not needing to carry specific AI or AP ammo. Hence my suggestion to boost shotgun and 9mm ammo box round counts. I�d much rather see this than see the VS ammo nerf some are crying for. IMHO if you are good enough to survive that long you should have the ammo to keep up the fight. Running out of ammo just sucks.

[Acaila]

I was making a point to dharkbayne. The chances of getting a 13 hit kill with an MCG is as likely as getting a 3 hit kill with a JH on rexo. Implicit is that neither is particularly likely at all.

[ChewyLSB]

But what you're suggesting is making ammo a non-existant problem. Why don't we just have infinite ammo guns then? We'd never run out of ammo if what you're suggesting goes through.

[easypickings]

i personaly like the fact that i can run out of ammo and have to fall back to my mag scatter with only 6 bullets in it,then to my trusty knife. i like having to kill some one to get there ammo.

but i do agree that it is alot easier for the VS,

so i guess i have to agree with the original post, even though i like it how it is, it is an unfair advantage

[BadAsh]

But what you're suggesting is making ammo a non-existant problem. Why don't we just have infinite ammo guns then? We'd never run out of ammo if what you're suggesting goes through.

I would not consider allowing TR and NC soldiers to carry as much ammo per inventory space as a VS soldier as an "unlimited ammo" situation.

The shotgun ammo just recently went through a DEV nerf... one that I don't really recall anyone complaining that "OMGWTF the NC have too much ammo!"...

All that did was give the NC the problem the TR always had and left the VS with the "advantage".

I mean come on... let CSD (common sense dictate)... it's not that hard to achieve balance and fairness especially in areas like this that don't really require testing. This only requires the aplication of common sense logic.

[TheN00b]

I think that everyone, or at least most people, can agree that 9mm ammunition needs to carry 100 rounds; however, the shotgun ammo is a more tricky subject. Therefore, I propose a compromise: That shotgun ammunition packs hold 24 rounds. This would please people like me, who do not want to see the NC have a huge ammo/kill ratio, but it would also give Sweeper users 3 clips per pack and Jackhammre users 1.5 CPP. Opinions?

[aiwest420]

32 and 100 is too much. I think 24 and 75 would be perfect.

[EarlyDawn]

That seems reasonable.

[AltaEgo]

I agree that the MCG ammo boxes need upped. It takes 20 shots to kill a rexo and thats just to kill him, thats not counting all the missed shots.

Aye Silver. 'Tis true. To get a few decent kills requires 3/4s to the entire round. But yes, N00b - 24 and 75 sounds perfect.

[TheN00b]

32 and 100 is too much. I think 24 and 75 would be perfect.

Good point; 100 would probably be too much. In compromise, we gain.

[BadAsh]

I can agree with 24 and 75 for the ammo bumps... I MUCH prefer that to a VS ammo nerf...

[SuperBallz]

Nerf This!! Buff That!!!

Man this funny :P

[drsomewhere]

i disagree. you work with what you have. Im a support player i hafto cary around medapp / med goo / rek / cud / Pheonix/ Pheonix Ammo / Glue gun / Bank / Engy goo and im rexo. I bareley have enough room for my JH ammo so i make due and only cary two maybe three boxes if im lucky. And only two PX ammo boxes. Im fine with this because im trading my combat ability to cary support equip.


You have some super sized inventory we dont know about??? Lets see here, med app, box of med goo (fine), rek and cud???(what are you smoking), Phoenix and ammo, huge chunk of inventory used up there, why would you carry around a glue gun as a regular grunt...I hope you didnt mean this all in one inventory...Cause it is your own damn fault that you run out of space. You'd be trying to do too much.

[Seer]

This thread is a re-run. Here are my original thoughts on the matter of ammo boxes:

http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showpost.php?p=329717&postcount=16

Original post itself:

http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20063

As you can see from the data, technical parity of ha firing times is achieved when you a) halve the lasher box and reduce the shotgun box to 13 or b) increase the shotgun box to 24 and the 9mm box to 100. I personally prefer that the lasher ammo box be effectively halved by making it hold 50 units of energy and consume two cells per shot. However, it should be pointed out that the lasher is an extremely inaccurate weapon even when used properly, and it may be that it expends relatively more ammo per person to make a kill. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.

The fact that VS can carry one ammo type for their ha, ma, ap, an ai ammo is an intentional advantage. Arguing it is really less an argument about ammo balance and more an argument about whether they should have that advantage in the first place.

[Cauldron Borne]

The TR HA weapon is the BIGGEST ammo muncher in the game. My agile guy carries 350 rounds on him (250 in the pack, 100 in the gun). I go through that in no time. I get plenty of kills (maybe 6-8 per pack), but I hate how i can go through all of that in five minutes in a big fight. My VS character can go an hour without needing a re-arm, 30 min in big fights. 30-40+ kills on one pack is kinda rediculous....

[BadAsh]

As you can see from the data, technical parity of ha firing times is achieved when you a) halve the lasher box and reduce the shotgun box to 13 or b) increase the shotgun box to 24 and the 9mm box to 100. I personally prefer that the lasher ammo box be effectively halved by making it hold 50 units of energy and consume two cells per shot. However, it should be pointed out that the lasher is an extremely inaccurate weapon even when used properly, and it may be that it expends relatively more ammo per person to make a kill. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.

The problem I have with your data is it matches up "firing times" meaning the time it takes to empty a full magazine... this is nearly useless data because they all have varried magazine sizes, varried rates of fire, and various per hit killing potential.

I think a more accurate rating is how much "killing power" you can haul around in your weapon and in each 9x9 sized ammo box.

I ideally you'd want a grunt of any empire with a set amount of ammo boxes in inventory to be able to kill the same amount of enemies as any other empire grunt... you want to be even in terms of killing potential.

[Seer]

BadAsh, the data is fine because the HA weapons are generally considered, by implicit consensus, to be balanced against each other in most respects. That means that people consider their TTKs and abilities to be reasonable when compared to one another. What remains is how long you can fire the weapon given your ammo. That's the measure of how long you can stay out in the field. And that's what we're talking about here.

If you want to bring in the element of how many rounds an average HA user expends for every kill, then fine, let's bring in that element. Let's also bring in how many people the average HA user kills before dying. I bet the weapons come out even more balanced.

Either way, I'm on your side. My argument is the same as yours and my data supports your conclusions. If you want to bring in new variables that probably won't support your conclusion, I'm all ears.