Liberator gunship > Reaver at AtG?

[Acaila]

I think Lib's just using the 35mm are better than Reaver's at air to ground.

I am talking primarily at AV, though taking AI into account, they are probably better at that aswell, armour vs pain output.

[LimpBIT]

depends. Libs are good for killing ppl inside CY and on towers but reavers are better for anywhere else in the open like outside the CY or on roads killing ANT or w/e

[JetRaiden]

Reavers are good for quick, light and stealthy attacks on units, such as individual infantry, but thats about it. at least in comparison to the liberator.

[Acaila]

@Limpbit
I disagree, there are only 3 things in the game a Lib can't solo; a Mag, Mosq or a Reaver. Vanguard's are touch and go, Prowler's are easy prey. You can go toe to toe with a Skyguard and win. I like it when AA MAXs shoot at me, saves time looking for them.

The CoF spread combined with the travel speed of the 35mm means you need to get close to small targets (infantry and MAXs) to kill them quickly, it is pretty easy to dodge at longer ranges. Reaver's have the same problem, but their speed allows them to evade AA far more easily. In a Lib you need to plan your health for running away. 20% for the way in, 50% for the way out. Take more than 20% damage before you start firing, you usually won't escape. The damage escalates as you run away.

At an enemy base, that can be a problem as concentrated fire will eliminate you as you run away. If anything, outside in open areas is where a lib gunship really shines. If you are careful, you're 1 of the hardest things in the game to kill. Enemy air is the only thing that can take you down if you watch yourself, so you fly them straight into friendly AA if you don't have a competant tail gunner.

You can engage targets at longer range than you can with Reaver rockets and hit more successfully on fast moving vehicle targets. 35mm isn't as fast travel speed as other weapons, but it is alot faster than rockets. Taking into account reloading, a Lib and Reaver (rockets) have almost the same damage output, a Reaver is a little in front, though this is counter balanced by the reliability of direct fire, faster shot speed and better CoF.

I seriously think that if an attacking force was comprised of nothing but Lib gunships and Skyguard's, you would kill anything the enemy could field against you with the same number of players (bearing in mind you need only 1 person to field a Lib gunship), unless you're fighting VS. Magrider's might be capable of annihilating your force. I would like to test 2 Lib gunships verses 1 Mag with a good gunner.

@JetRaiden
Agreed.

[Xijx]

Yeah i have to agree for the most part th lib is a Pretty tough mother :D

Mags are realy the only thing on the ground you have to worry about....And realy good flailers....But other then that, its a pretty good bet i can kill it befoe it kills me....However this doesn't speak for the combination of vehicles and infantry....A Good Skygurad team(About 50:50 with a good one) and a striker or two will put a lib down pretty fast.

[flypengy]

No.

All the armor in the world can't make up for the fact that with strafing runs the reaver takes little to no damage. (an ams is easy prey for a reaver just making passes, but a lib will have to sit still taking constant damage from av).

[Acaila]

Strafing runs against an AMS are done better with a Reaver, you can escape before mass fire is brought on you. But that is only a small part of AtG. Even then, Lib 35mm has a longer effective range than AV besides the Lancer. For general ground assault, I still maintain a Lib is superior, purely based on longer range capabilities (can assault from longer ranges and a safer position), a more reliable main weapon (better accuracy, faster shot speed = more hits landed) and higher armour (can remain in the field longer and inflict more damage).

Throw a couple of AA MAXs in, and that Reaver is going to have a tough time killing the AMS. A skyguard, the Reaver can't do it. The Lib atleast can remove a Skyguard or a couple of AA MAXs.

[Rbstr]

They are better, that 35mm rip though stuff and the armor lets it take out a tank when being nailed by AA. But i prefer teh eraver its fasterm and is a bit easier to manuver, it is also better AI

[TheN00b]

I think that the Reaver is better, as it has incredibly fast strafing runs that are just as lethal as the Lib's plodding destruction.

[JetRaiden]

I think that the Reaver is better, as it has incredibly fast strafing runs that are just as lethal as the Lib's plodding destruction.

um, no, in fact its not even close. it takes half a clip from the reavers rocket pod to kill 1 infantry unit. the liberator can take down about 10 times that in half a magazine of bombs.

[NewCong. Marine]

The Lib doesn't need to use the 35mm for AMS'... Thats why it has bombs. A parked AMS doesn't move, and if you're high enough in the Lib, nothin to worry about as far as ground troops are concerned.

[Seer]

You guys who are talking about bombs--this poll is clearly about the liberator as a 'gunship'--not a bomber.

[Acaila]

Yep, no bombs, just 35mm and 25mm. Mainly 35mm.

[Nereid]

The main advantage of the Lib's 35mm to the reaver rocket pods is that you dont run out of ammo so freakin fast. If you take all the bombs out of the trunk and fill it with 35mm ammo that gives you plenty to last in the field and kill multiple vehicles. The reaver much more limited on its rockets as they run out very fast. You then could use the reavers 20mm but then again whats a 20mm compared to a 35mm. The Lib may be slow but its still faster then any ground unit even the wraith so it can chase down any vehicle but must use its superior armor to flee with instead of AB. A reaver runs out of ammo fast but then again you can AB yourself to a near by Air tower to rearm yourself and repair wheres a liberator takes much longer to get to an Air tower for repairs so it might be just good to bring a glue gun when using the lib. But over all I like the Lib better since it can fire from a longer range with more accuracy and if it does get hit by AV it has the armor to stick out the fight. Ive always kind of thought of it as a flying tank.

[Seer]

I wonder whether the people arguing that the Liberator makes a better gunship have even taken their own advice. You don't survive long in a liberator. That thing is a brick compared to the reaver and, at the ranges you need to be to be effective it is a barn sized target. The 35mm is a harsh weapon, but you're completely vulnerable to both other aircraft, av, and all ground based small arms right up to 20mm. The fact that your speed never varies and you can't get away quickly makes you a very easy target to hit, too.

Other posters have pointed out that a reaver can strike quickly and jet away. That's their high suvivability tactic. Libs can't do this. So a Lib can take out something, but it's generally a one way trip. Have you seriously tried to get away from Phoenix users while flying below 100 meters after killing your target? I'll bet you haven't, if you're still saying the Lib is a better atg gunship than the reaver.

It can certainly operate, combat wise, longer than the Reaver in certain low-stress conditions. Like a cavern with less than 5 people in it.

[Lartnev]

I voted no, but only because I suck at using the 35mm on the Lib :D

[SilverLord]

Voted no because i have never used the lib...at all.

[AltaEgo]

I could not say. Both gunships are used for different purposes. And you all know which purposes they are, but I just cant compare them. Liberator drops bombs, its guns are defense, as the Reaver has Rocket Pods, and guns; Used to kill troops and Vehicles. It is all out assault, up-close and personal. If you was ever up and personal with a Liberator, the chances of escape are high.

[Desperado]

I see you libbing it up Acaila, I voted yes just because you take most of the AA attention away from us skeedos O_

[Vick]

I cant decide to get magrider, liberator, or AV next on my Vanu.

[Desperado]

Get AV, I'm tired of covering your ass

[Acaila]

Fly a Lib like you drive a tank and you will have success with it, assuming you know how to drive a tank. Just know how much damage you can take before you bug out. I operate on 20-30% damage before I run, anymore than that and usually won't escape if combined fire is hitting you. Small arms do jack shit to a Lib. The only infantry I bother killing are irritating AV troops, persistant little guys sometimes.

Everyone who has 3 cert points to play with should give it a go. I find it really enjoyable, though the 35mm is a little tricky to master.

@Nereid
Exaclty.


@Seer
In an air vehicle, Phoenix's are the least of your worries, their DpS is pitiful. In a Reaver or Skeeter, Strikers are your biggest worry because your evasive flying means nothing unless you break LoS. In a Lib, Lancers are the biggest problem, they output alot of pain and you are an easy target. VS as a whole is a nightmare to fly against, NC is by far the easiest. My Lib gunship rarely gets shot down, I average 15:1 in it when I play carefully against NC and TR. Against VS, that falls to 8:1, Starfire's, Magrider's and Lancer's are the bane of my Lib.

The thing to remember is relative ranges, a Reaver needs to be close to its target to ensure accuracy with the rockets. A Lib on the other hand can get superior accuracy at 3 times the range. In a Reaver you come in hard and fast, slam your target and fuck off. In a Lib, you move in slowly, fire from longer distances and maintain that separation. That distance is what keeps you safe. A 300m a skyguard will need over 2 clips to kill you thanks to the CoF it has. It will still die to you in around 50 rounds if it doesn't move. If it does move, the gunner is going to have a hell of a time landing flak on you. Once you understand the 35mm, it is just like shooting the mags main gun, you lead by a little more, but you have a better CoF. You do not want to use a Lib gunship close to your target, if they get underneath you, you're in shit.

The Lib also has a far longer life expectancy whilst still being useful in high stress environments. It can with stand alot more punishment. Reaver's last a long time in a zerg if you're careful with them. Lib's are the same. The difference is, Lib's can engage at far longer ranges and thus be more useful. Heck, I kill Sparrow MAXs outside of their lock range. Besides a Flail and Magrider, the Lib 35mm is the most high damage, RELIABLE, long range weapon in the game.

Lib gunship's are great for friendly air, they remove AA easily from places ground units can't get to, such as hill tops. I have never gone toe to toe with a skyguard and lost. I get killed by them all the time, like flying over a hill and there is a Skyguard and an AA MAX on the other side, but when I decide to kill 1 and I have full health, he better have friends.

@Lartenev
Practice. It fires slowly and requires accurate leading. ;)

@Silverlord
Pfft, noob ffs. :p

@AltaEgo
The guns don't have to be defensive. The 35mm and 25mm are 2 of the most powerful weapons in the game. A Lib with a decent tail gunner and pilot makes a gunship that will kill basically anything.

@Arclyte
Heh, in a highly contested area, AA get's used to me and starts gunning for me. I am usually the biggest threat to them. But you raise another good point. A Lib can act as a damage sponge for friendly air, similar to a MAX in a squad. Except a Lib will also kill whatever is hurting it, unlike a MAX. I am glad someone finds me usefull. :D

[Seer]

Acaila, you can say what you like about your personal experiences, but I see libs trying to use their 35mm get eaten for breakfast every day, and do a good deal of the eating myself when I'm packing my lancer.

I tend to judge the power of a weapon system based on the difficulty that I, personally, have dealing with it in game. Seeing a vanguard pull up or a few reavers diving towards my vehicle makes me wish I wasn't there. I've never had a problem with a liberator gunship as an infantryman, a gunner, or a vehicle driver. I've spent enough time on the firing end of the 35mm to be aquainted with its, and the libs, advantages and limitations. This leads me to doubt the fact that there is an untapped potential there.

If you've happened upon it, fine, but it may not even be a scalable advantage. If there are too many lib gunships out there, a situation I don't foresee happening, then players will prey on their numerous weaknesses to keep the numbers extremely low. I've had mild successes with the liberator gunship, perhaps on par with the kind I would have in a reaver, but it's clear to me that I'm only allowed these successes because my enemy is unprepared and often, apparently, dumbstruck.

[hazzer2007]

there is no comp, a drop load of bombs from the lib can destroy a tank if done perfectly but reaver rockets carn't.

[Peacemaker]

Not tallkin about bombs, talkin about the 35mm vs the rkts.

The reaver is an awsome weapon when in the hands of a a good pilot. It can own anything in the whole game in a matter of a few seconds to the max of about 50 seconds. The lib on the other hand can own everything in the game in under 25 seconds of concentrated fire. The lib is far more powerful if talking punch power. The Reaver can dodge small arms fire with ease. The Lib cannot. I fly both very efficiently and in my personal opinion as a very good pilot with over 4000 kills in my reaver and lib they are equal. If used effectivly a group of Libs and Reavers would be THE most effective force you can field in the game.

[Nereid]

Anyone know exactly how much armor the Lib has anyway? Im thinking its something around 2500 - 3000 but im not entirely sure.