Day One: Vehicles and Armor

[Unregistered]

Since Hamma locked the other thread before I got a chance to finish this debate I have decided to start a whole new thread about it.

On the day the game is released (<--for everyone that failed reading comprehension). What will it be like?

We already know (<--again to help the 3rd graders) that you will need Certs in order to use certian vehicles, and armors, but does that mean all of them?

How long does it take to earn a cert? Does this mean that in the first month the game is out there will be no Planes/Dropships/Tanks/MAX/Stealth Suits, and we will gradully start to see them as people earn the certs? Will the game start out in an arms race with all the empires racing to get people certified in diffrent things?

It seems to me that there should be at lease some things available or were all going to be doing a lot of walking.

Once the game is established, it won't matter but I'm currious what it will be like from the get go

Did that clear things up for our idiot readers??























*disclaimer* The above forum post was written by someone who has not had a cigarette in 2 days and is suffering fom withdraws.

[Hamma]

I thought you quit smoking?

[Hamma]

btw you could have posted in the locked thread, you have nazi admin powers :D

[Unregistered]

I did quit smoking.

About 36 hours ago.

I also posted in the locked thread but I wanted people to be able to respond. No need to deny them the chance to prove me wrong since "If I had botherd looking" I'd already know the answers.

[snipe]

Originally posted by Unregistered

We already know (<--again to help the 3rd graders) that you will need Certs in order to use certian vehicles, and armors, but does that mean all of them?


i don't think that there will be any vehicals without certs. the only things may be, the AR, a pistol, and a light armor suit.


How long does it take to earn a cert? Does this mean that in the first month the game is out there will be no Planes/Dropships/Tanks/MAX/Stealth Suits, and we will gradully start to see them as people earn the certs? Will the game start out in an arms race with all the empires racing to get people certified in diffrent things?


this is how i picture it.

You get 1 BEP for every kill. to get a buggie you need say 200 BEPs(200 kills). In the begining, everyone will be running out to the other empire's bases and there will be alot of killing involved. in a day you might get 100 BEPs if you play for a couple of hours. by the second day, if you want, you could get a buggie suit, but you will still only have the basic armorment(AR, light suit, pistol). Then your BEPs will go back down to 0(if you have exactly 200 BEPs)


It seems to me that there should be at lease some things available or were all going to be doing a lot of walking.


for the first couple of days, most people will probably be using warp gates and the orbital drop pods. This will be until people get the certs for vehicals.

[Unregistered]

Well the drop pods will be an option, but it's gonna be hard to corridnate that an outfit of pods to land in the same area.

Your concept for the BEP's is a little off, but I understand what your getting at, and I agree. That if once you can get a Cert, you get one for a Tank, your not going to be getting anythng else.

Where your a hair off is that they said there will be no economy, so there won't be a "price tag" on things. It's like any other RPG where when you get enough XP you level up, but there will be no gold in the game to buy things.

I'm wondering if there will anything like the little buggy that is concidered "basic" and does not require a cert, or if they will do something like give you one or 2 certs when you start.

Personally I find the thought of being stuck in a flak jacket with nothing more then a pistol for god knows how long it will take to get a cert a little disturbing. I'd rather be able to start enjoying the game right out of the box.

[snipe]

i know that i am off on how BEPs are distributed, but i think what they ment by no economy was that you don't have to keep buying weapons and vehicals over and over again. Otherwise, once you get a certain number of BEPs you can get every thing that is under that ""amount""

[Unregistered]

OK.

We are really saying the same thing but in diffrent ways. I picture it working something like....

1000 BEP's = 1 Cert = Buggy for Life (or Whatever you want to buy)

5000 BEP's = another cert = Better Guns

So the more you play, the more certs you get, but you can only spend them on one thing like the buggy. Then you would always get the buggy.

Your way just sort of cuts out the middle man. (cert)

[Kaikou]

hmm...you'd be suprised how persistant people can be...I bet you within the first day of the game being out there will already be many vehicles by the end of the day...the number of them will be nothing to the number after a week, then a month, etc. I've seen new asherons call worlds open, and the same day people have already completed major quests. It all depends on how long you play it, what you do in it, and which certs you want.

I'm sure there will be vehicles the first day though

[Tetsugaku]

Originally posted by Unregistered
[B]I did quit smoking.

About 36 hours ago.



I quit 7 weeks ago, still sucks arse :(

[RocketFodder]

The first week is probably going to be nothing more than a mad deathmatch of people exploring and checking out the immense world of PS. Once the initial shock wears off, then you'll start to see more organization and teamwork. The very reason PS is unlike any other FPS is because you CANNOT just jump into the game day 1, and experience everything it has to offer. You need to get your bearings, and develop your character as suited to your skills and interest.

I'm rather sick of this "waah waah, I want everything the game has to offer immediately because I'm impatient and I like to use cheats in singleplayer games because I want everything blah blah." Get over yourself :rolleyes:

[Hamma]

I still think its a valid point.. How do i know im going to like the Mosquito if I cant get near it without a cert? But anyway, the VR question being sent off to the devs is based a little on this question.

[RocketFodder]

Like I said, I'm pretty sure we already have an answer to this question, and that it is "Yes, you can check them out in training." Furthermore, there's no penalty for trying a cert, and un-learning it and applying that credit to something else, other than a little bit of time. You can't nerf yourself.

Also, if you read his post, it isn't "will I like it?" but "I don't want to have to walk--EVER--and I don't want to wait to get everything."

nubs D:

[Hamma]

Well if we do already know it, I didnt see it anywhere

and im censoring out nub and nubs, its the gayest version of newb, n00b, newbie that exists :p who thought that up? they should be shot ;)

[Unregistered]

You failed reading comprehension didn't you Rocket.

Where in any of my posts does it say that I don't want to walk ever?

It seems to me that there should be at lease some things available or were all going to be doing a lot of walking

Answer me this one then Oh Great Guru of Planetside

I'm wondering if there will anything like the little buggy that is concidered "basic" and does not require a cert, or if they will do something like give you one or 2 certs when you start.

That really sounds like I want it all right now, and how I love to cheat in single player games.

I really wish you would read things before you spouted off at the mouth like your Joe Planetside, and know everything there is to know about the game. There good questions worth debate, so save your flaming for your next Gay Pride Parade.

[Hamma]

:eek:

/me passes unreg a ciggarette

[RocketFodder]

You claim you can't enjoy the game without using vehicles. If this is REALLY the case, then either 1) PS isn't your game, or 2) You need to get ahold of a nice squad that can level a base quickly and promote you to your first cert qualification.

Some things = drop pods, warp gates.

The idea of a quad or something usable without a cert would undermine those who certified to use it, so I dont see any practicality to this addition. The idea of starting with 1 cert in character creation is intruiging, however.

While I don't know everything (as I doubt even Dave himself does, at this point), I do know a lot more than the average fan about this game. If you want to attack me for trying to help share what I know, then enjoy your stay in ignoranceville next to the rest of the FAQless nubs.

BTW, next gay pride parade, I'll be sure to invite you. :love:

[Hamma]

ok i demand we begin to spread :love: in this thread

[Unregistered]

I didn't start this debate with the intent of flaming anyone. I asked a question in the other thread and you attacked me. I'll admit that when creating this thread my intent was to make you look foolish, but I think I am over that now.

I have played a lot of RPG games, and a lot of FPS games in my life, and I can tell you that Planetside is the type of game for me.

See that's where I think this whole thing went wrong. You seem to think that I want to be able to start tossing around Planet Busters (anyone ever play Alpha Centuri?) on day one, but that's not the case at all. I am all for earning things as we go along. That's half the fun of an RPG is getting to the next level, and thinking about what new thing you'll be able to do when you get there.

But in every RPG game I have ever played they at least start you down the path you want to go durring charecter creation. Like picking weather your going to be a Paliden, or a Barbarian, or a Wizzard. Your still weak when you start, but your already heading down a path.

Now I realize that Planetside is very diffrent then most games I have played, but I still think that either something should be in the game that no cert is required for or you should get one or 2 certs durring charecter creation. Once your headed down a chosen path, then earning more certs and getting more powerful will be the thing to look forward to.

The only other way I could possibly see doing it is making the BEP requirement for your first Cert very low, so that if you are stuck on foot in a flack jacket and a pistol you won't be getting owned forever.

I appreciate having you around the forums, and you offer a lot of good insight into things. I just don't apreciate getting called a cheater and a nub by someone that doesn't even know me.

If you want to start the debate over without the flames I'm willing.

[Zarparchior]

Actually, you both need to calm down and not worry. Unreg, nigh everything will require certs. It may seem unfortunate, but I can promise IT IS NOT. There will still be people with vehicles within the first week (if not sooner).

How will this be so? I remember hearing the devs say there WILL be some kind of VR training, and you will be able to earn some BEP there to help jumpstart your epic journey. This is VERY wise of them, as it allows players to try the vehicles/weapons they would like to, and also get some BEP so that every n00b will NOT just start out with a cloth shirt and a rusty sword. I'm sure some of the common pool weapons (among empire specific pistols) will be attainable after VR training. In othewords, you could have 2 characters who did VR training. One of them took a cert for the Buggy, another took a cert for the amp. This way, all n00bs will not necessarily just drop out there with a pistol and a flak jacket. They may also have an amp or the like in their pocket. ;)

I may be wrong... but I doubt it. I guess if someone calls my blu- I mean, uh, thinks I'm incorrect, then I'll just have to go a-hunting for the info. But please don't. I enj0y being lazy. :D

[Manitou]

If the CDL has its guys together in the first day, I can guarantee we won't be running around in a frag-fest!

There will be a coordinated effort to see that we q0wn at least one continent by day's end. I...want...this...game........NOW!

HOWOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

:p

[Hamma]

I want my character to start out in a loin cloth.


mmmmm

[Unregistered]

You'll need to get your Textile Cert first :p

[Hamma]

damn

:(

[RocketFodder]

If you want to start the debate over without the flames I'm willing.
*shrugs* I've had my fun ;) I just can't pass up a good argument. In fact, I have to get back to this other one, which is already probably 30+ pages in under 20 posts :| *sighs*

[Unregistered]

Debating is fun.

Arguing is stupid.

[Flashingfish]

wooooah

Is this thread old or something? You don't need to pay for anything..or maybe I'm not getting the point.

Obviously you won't be able to do some things for a while because you need the certs, but then you're just going to have to wait. In never winter nights, you have to wait a long time to use some items or weapons (although using new weapons in NWN dosen't feel at satisfying as an fps). It's just a part of the game, which is different to the fps subculture we're all used to.

btw, RF always calls people nubs ;)

[Kaikou]

well..as I said before..unless its a very long process of obtaining vehicles, there should be many seen within the first few days...how in any way could ps be fun if you have to walk across continents to fight, then die, and repeat the process until you can get a cert for a vehicle?

I'm guessing you will *probably* start out with some form of basic transportation cert...buggy maybe...I dunno but I can easily say PS will not be fun without vehicles, no matter how early/late into the game it is..It's not all about getting everything the game has to offer at the beginning, it is more of a start with one thing, and get more things as you progress.

So in short I'm willing to bet that all players will be given a cert to begin with. I'm not sure how certs will work, if ONE cert gets you ANY of the certifications or if some might require more than 1 cert point. But like in asherons call, everquest, DAoC, etc you are given a certain amount of skill credits to start out with so your character can begin a step in the direction they want to go (i.e. dropship pilot, hacker, mosquito pilot, reaver pilot, etc)

[Unregistered]

:clap:

Kai and Fish get my point.

Fish - In NWN you did have to wait a long time to use certian things, and that's what kept me playing (that and I really liked the story.) but if you think back to the Training portion of the game, they gave you level 1 (witch in turn gave you a new skill) before you even met Lady Airibeth.

Kai also points out that all the other MMORPG's he's played they all give you some skill points to use at the start. So that you can start down the path you want before you see any action.

Since we don't know a whole lot about Certs except that we need them, and that you earn them through BEP's I posed the question "Will there be any "basic" vechicles that don't require a cert, or will we be given a cert or 2 in the begining to get us started?"

It really does not sound fun for us all to be stuck with a pistol doing "Walk, Die, Repeat" until we can get our first certs.

[Zarparchior]

Am I even awknowledged anymore or am I just considered not to make any sense? :(

[Tolvy]

In some games I've played, like Everquest, you didn't need to kill anything to get levels. You could go on quests to get expirience. All you had to do was deliver an item from one part of town to the other. Maybe PS will have something like this so you won't have to run forever just to find someone to kill.

[Hamma]

Dunno. I read your posts Zarp. :p

[Manitou]

Well, the idea might be to give people a work-up time to gather allegiances, form alliances, etc. I think we will probably start off with a basic transportation vehicle, or some cert points as was mentioned. But I think these basic points should be a one time expendable thing and not transferrable once spent. You will be able to earn more later as the campaign progresses, but those first points are gone once burnt.

I for one wouldn't suggest walking clear across a continent to start a battle with someone. Will fatigue be a factor? If they have day/night cycles, will we require sleep or some form of rest for our characters? In other words, we make a long trek, go straight into battle and expect the troops to act like fresh warriors straight out of the sack? Wonder how detailed this will be?

I would think with the number of people that will be logging in, we will have what is typically called a "target rich environment", or, simply put, surrounded by enemies. ;)

[Unregistered]

Originally posted by Zarparchior
Am I even awknowledged anymore or am I just considered not to make any sense? :(

I read the part about calming down and took it to heart.

:love:

[RocketFodder]

No fatigue, no sleeping.

This is an action-oriented FPS, not an RPG ;)

Stamina exists, but almost solely for the usage of implants. You also lose stamina if you are shot. If you jump it uses stamina, but so little it practically recharges by the time you land.

[snipe]

they may start everyone off with a quad cert, but i'm pretty sure the common AR, your empire's Pistol, and the knife wont require you to gain any certs. This means you can get these weapons when you first start.

[Zarparchior]

Originally posted by Unregistered
I read the part about calming down and took it to heart.

:love:

I'm glad you did. :D

But I meant about the rest of it. I'm nigh positive that's what is going to happen. So we WILL be able to get some certs off the bat from VR training. In fact, you'll be able to choose since it'll be earned BEP just like you would from killin'. If I had to assign numbers, it would be like this:

You get 300 BEP from VR.

Buggy cert = 250 BEP
AMP cert = 100 BEP
Flechette Rifle = 200 BEP
MAX armor = 300 BEP

Or the like. So you could technically take an amp and a flechette rifle, whip out your pistol and drive the buggy around, or wreak havoc in your new MAX.

**edit: I'm glad SOMEONE reads my posts Hamma. :D

[Unregistered]

Interesting Idea.

I had always envisioned it being more like "Leveling Up". Where once you reach a certian ammount of BEP's you get a cert, and then you could spend that one cert on anything.

Example:

1000 BEP's = 1 cert
5000 BEP's = 1 cert (for a total of 2)
15,000 BEP's = 1 cert (for a total of 3)

As you went along you might use them like this.....

1st cert = Bolt Driver
2nd Cert = Range Magnifyer Implant
3rd Cert = Stealth Suit

So everything that you can certify in would cost only one cert.

[Nohimn]

I think you can probably choose 1 cert to begin with or something, otherwise, it would be utterly pointless until about a month later. Maybe you don't, but you get beginning certs depending on what Empire you are on or something. DAMN! This would have been a GREAT question for the next Dev interview!

[NapalmEnima]

Originally posted by Unregistered

1st cert = Bolt Driver
2nd Cert = Range Magnifyer Implant
3rd Cert = Stealth Suit


I think I heard that you can only carry a pistol and knife while cloaked in a stealth suit... On the other hand, the stealthed buggy may have storage enough for a couple decent weapons (like that bolt driver, and maybe an anti-vehicular weapon as well).

And I don't think you need certs for implants. From the last dev chat, you just have a number of implant slots (1 to 3) based on your rank, and you can switch implants will with the right terminal.

[snipe]

what would happen if you wanted to unlearn a cert? The Devs said that you can unlearn certs.

[Hamma]

Dunno.. hasnt been covered in full, it would seem you would gain your BEPs back.

dunno tho

[Unregistered]

That's one of the reasons that I think that BEP's will = a cert, and that everything else will just require one cert.

Let's say that I want to be a dropship piolet so I certify in it. After a few weeks I discover that I'm not on at the same time as most of my Squad so I have no one to fly around. So I decided to unlearn it. I am basically left with a cert that I can then use to get a tank, a MAX, a Masquito or whatever I wanted.

[Kaikou]

I think it will be like asherons call 2

It is impossible to "gimp" your character because you are able to unlearn things. But in asherons call 2, to unlearn something, you must gain as much XP that you put into that skill (i.e. you dumped 1000 XP into that skill, but want to now untrain it) so you would have to gather 1000 XP to completely untrain the skill, I think it would be same with BEPs...it would make sense...so there is a penalty to untraining things, but not a penalty that will scar you for life. That way people couldn't just convert from a soldier to a sniper on the spot by untraining an assault weapon and training the bolt driver...make sense?