New Vehicles

[Hamma]

There havent been a ton of threads on these forums about the new vehicles. So the question is, what do you think of them after playing for a bit on the new patch? From most of what I've heard the Thunderer is overpowered, and can tear through tanks and troops like theres no tomorrow. Is this true?

Post what you think.

[Biohazzard56]

Thunderer is a beast, so is the Raider. Id say the Raider and Thunderer are about tied, the Auoura has a slower RoF so its still menacing but just not as powerful as the TR and NC Variants. I like all the new things devs will be putting into 2.7.7

[martyr]

more stuff to make fun of makes my job easier.

[Manitou]

The Thunderer wins hands down. Reason I say this is for the following personal observations on the Thunderer:

The guns are one-shot kills on all infantry. No need to focus fire from the other mounted gun as one gun can do the trick.
Less manpower needed to man the vehicle for it to be effective. The Raider requires at least 3 people gunning (4 people total vs. 3 people for the Thunderer) for it to be an effective weapons platform.
The lethality of the guns against armor place it on a par with the TR MBT the Prowler, thus effectively dousing any TR hopes of countering Thunderer columns.
The fairly good AA properties are gravy to an already great meal. Reavers and Mosquitoes are forced to strafe at higher speeds thus lowering their ability to counter them. The Raider is pretty good as well, but it still requires at least 2 gunners to focus on the aircraft when the Thunderer can deal with aircraft using one gunner.
Combined with the Vanguard, the Thunderer becomes even more dangerous. Its straight-as-an-arrow CoF allows some serious sniping with tremendous splash damage, and combining this with the Vanguards respectful armor and main gun you have a recipe for disaster for any TR or VS armor.
These are just a few observations I had from gaming last night. I can't tell you how many times I got killed in Rexo by a Thunderer one-shotting me. Some of the shots were very good distance shots, effectively nullifying my Deci counterfire. As I said, these are just a few of my observations.

[Lartnev]

1. will definately be changing Manitou.

I don't know about any of the others.

I have never had a problem with requiring more people for a thing to be effective, I think there are advantages to being able to engage multiple targets at the same time, or concentrating your fire to get maximum results. In fact it's pretty damn cool when flying over a raider seeing it's fire streak from target to target.

[l3lizz4rd]

more stuff to make fun of makes my job easier.
Heh, speaking of which... PM's.

[SilverLord]

I haven't got to play yet but I've heard that the Aurora is VERY scarey to Infantry.

[_-Gunslinger-_]

The thunderer needs to have its COF changed. While its not "sniper" quality as so many claim its still good enough at 45m and below. Also I think the total damage output should be droped by about 15%. One shotting rexos is just stupid. Cant comment on the raider, never used it or the aurora.

[Nisloscen]

The Aurora could be a bit better (bigger clip)

As far as the Thunderer being an unstopable death mobile, I just don't see it. The projectiles move slow, uneven terrain makes it hard to aim. Playing as a Vanu Reaver I can easily kill it, especially when they go on water.

I love the Raider because it can easily tear you up but its not an instant kill. The four guns make getting off a few rockets tough, but there is always time to afterburn away when the first gunner notices you. I also love the 5 kills that pop up on my kdr after blowing one up.

[Peacemaker]

If you guys havnt slaped a thunderer with a raider yet you will be quiet suprized. The Raider with a coordinated crew WILL destroy a thunderer with ease. The thunderer is relativly inaccurate and you need to fire quiet a few shots to get a hit on something at 400m.

[Biohazzard56]

If you guys havnt slaped a thunderer with a raider yet you will be quiet suprized. The Raider with a coordinated crew WILL destroy a thunderer with ease. The thunderer is relativly inaccurate and you need to fire quiet a few shots to get a hit on something at 400m.

:nod:

[AltaEgo]

In my opinion, Thunderer is best; but it is too powerful. The Raider sucks more than anything else in the game, the Deliverer is more effective. And the Aurora (or however you spell it) is pretty decent, not too good on heavy vehicles but troops cry at the sight of it. :-P

[Warborn]

If you guys havnt slaped a thunderer with a raider yet you will be quiet suprized. The Raider with a coordinated crew WILL destroy a thunderer with ease. The thunderer is relativly inaccurate and you need to fire quiet a few shots to get a hit on something at 400m.

That's not important. What's important is that at long range the Thunderer can fire very powerful projectiles with a moderate amount of accuracy at longer ranges. At an equal range the Raider's guns wouldn't hit a thing, and if they did, the damage degredation would make them ridiculously ineffective. Nobody is saying the Thunderer is too strong because it can beat a Raider up close, they're saying it's too strong because it can beat everything else from far away. In situations where the Raider would be unable to perform because it would require wading into a firestorm, the Thunderer is in its element, because it can just hang back and fire round after round at anything which reveals itself as a target.

[Phaden]

Well im NC on Emerald, and i have yet to see anything but thunderers on the battlefield. NC pumps them out but in 2 hours of play, i saw none of the VS or TR variants. I quickly hopped into a thunderer to try its guns out and it fires pretty slow, and i would never evar use it against a quick moving air or ground target. The direct fire mode is intentional, and has its upsides and downsides just as the cannon shells do from tanks. They all serve there specific purpose. There are WAY to many damage comparisons for me to even try to think about that, so im sure that damage tweaking will probably happen, just as it still does for weapons. The longer it spends on test server and QA, the better tuned the weapons would be. The longer it stays in said stages, the more we want them and beg for them now.

[Firefly]

Raider sucks sweaty donkey balls. Honestly- are the developers TRYING to convince TR to disband and go NC or VS? I mean, this is outrageously LUDICROUS.

As for the Thunderer- it's so overpowered it's not even funny. What really pisses me off to no end is this: SmokeJumper saw all the complaints and said "We're going to fix this." And then they fucking released it ANYWAY, with no fixes. What kind of retard does that shit? Why release it when there's an OBVIOUS and ADMITTED imbalance? And why no backpedalling yet? Is it that hard to simply fix it? Why not just ROLL IT BACK like they did with the last patch? Oh- and by the way- I strongly suspect they rolled back the last patch because they accidentally buffed the TR.

I swear. Every time I think these mindless poltroons finally get something right, they go and set themselves back again with some paramount of stupidity. Seriously- this is disgusting. An APC Deliverer variant that can easily mow through tanks? My God- what utter bogus garbage!

[Radaeron]

I don't see why so many other TR are saying the Raider is so poor.. On werner there are many pleased people.
We've done some tests and its seriously effective, can tear through air units, destroys turrets quickly, kills infantry in a second. Keep in mind this is with 4 gunners who are hitting.

Although I agree that Thunderer is overpowered
Its too accurate, shells are seriously packing a punch the size of Ireland
Am very pissed off that they released it without even tweaking it from test.


are the developers TRYING to convince TR to disband and go NC or VS?
Didn't you hear? TR are disliked by the devs :rolleyes:
Yes.. :mad: Most patches I've seen nerf the TR and/or buff the VS/NC...

Take pre-core combat
The Pounder was nerfed so bad it became a walking lump of iron. :(
I checked over this a while back and the lasher was buffed at least 3 times. :mad:

Somewhere along the line the striker lock-on system was fudged up bad. :(

IMO most patches are an attack on the TR ;) The Raider is ok, but feeble compared with the Thunderer :(

[Lartnev]

Raider sucks sweaty donkey balls.

What? :huh:

The last patch was rolled back because people couldn't play the game, the thunderer is just a balance issue, hence it can just be hotfixed. I have a feeling that the reason they pushed the deliverers out the door, is they want them in for the 10 day war in an attempt to show people new content when they come back.

I'm not worried, they'll fix it.... they have to.

[krayons]

raider is nice and about right for not being a tank
thunder needs to be nerf a little
aura needs a buff

[Dharkbayne]

As for the Thunderer- it's so overpowered it's not even funny. What really pisses me off to no end is this: SmokeJumper saw all the complaints and said "We're going to fix this." And then they fucking released it ANYWAY, with no fixes.!

They pretty much had to release them, because if they delayed/pushed the vehicles back to another patch, the bitchfest would be INHUMAN.

[Onizuka-GTO]

To tell you the truth Aurora is quite good when your facing a large amount of infantry. It cuts thought them like hot butter on ice.
(mmmm...)
:lol:

Only problem at the moment is the relatively inexperienced gunners, and the tendacy for then to loose the whole clip (2nd mode is the one with slow reload) at sight of the enemy at a considerable range where its random CoF bloom makes the aim jump so wild you can't really hit anything while on the move. Coupled with the limited angle it can aim down at, its Air vunerability and its effective range within 100m. Makes it pretty shot up and dead by the time it can be effective at all....
:rolleyes:

[scarpas]

Raider sucks sweaty donkey balls. Honestly- are the developers TRYING to convince TR to disband and go NC or VS? I mean, this is outrageously LUDICROUS.

As for the Thunderer- it's so overpowered it's not even funny. What really pisses me off to no end is this: SmokeJumper saw all the complaints and said "We're going to fix this." And then they fucking released it ANYWAY, with no fixes. What kind of retard does that shit? Why release it when there's an OBVIOUS and ADMITTED imbalance? And why no backpedalling yet? Is it that hard to simply fix it? Why not just ROLL IT BACK like they did with the last patch? Oh- and by the way- I strongly suspect they rolled back the last patch because they accidentally buffed the TR.

I swear. Every time I think these mindless poltroons finally get something right, they go and set themselves back again with some paramount of stupidity. Seriously- this is disgusting. An APC Deliverer variant that can easily mow through tanks? My God- what utter bogus garbage!


id have to agree with him.

[Seer]

Well, there is one positive--the Thunderer is outrageously unbalanced rather than insidiously overpowered, so it will receive a nerf eventually.

I issued warning after warning on the test server feedback forum, to no avail.

Dhark, I assure you that no one with test server experience with the vehicles would have cried if they were delayed or even eliminated from the game. The devs knew from the test server forum microcosm that there would be an inhuman bitchfest if they did release the vehicles, except in that case the people bitching would have a point. And they did it anyway.

[Hezzy]

Thunderer is seriously overbalanced. I was shot down in a galaxy with half sheild in 7 shots. I had no time to escape, even with AB.

[FatalLight]

1. I agree the thunderer is overpowered. 1 shot kills=bad
2. What are you talking about the raider being bad! Did you not read the tips? You have to WORK TOGETHER, thers 4 of u man. Also at least yours was made to shoot things. The aurora was made to transport troops! WHY DO WE NEED A TROOP TRANSPORTER WE CAN USE THE DELI FOR THAT.
3. Yes the aurora is good vs troops but any war I go into has raiders and prowlers and thunderers and Vanguards and well I dont see a whole lot of troops to shoot.
4. Um sorry, the des are trying to get you to disband? If you look at the weapons comparison, VS is worse and it isnt workin too well on Markov. The pop is usually TR 40% NC 40% VS 20%...

[Biohazzard56]

Id personally like to see the Thunderer as a Gauss Rifle not a Flail. Gauss is a Rifle not A Mortar and the Deliverer is not a Mortar Platform.

[Onizuka-GTO]

...the Deliverer is not a Mortar Platform...

well apparently the Aurora is. :rolleyes:

[Yerster]

I have used them all. the Raider an Tunderer kickbutt...i hate haveing to go against them hehe but the arura could be better.


to make the arura better.

1)bigger clip maby at leat 8 shots-12 shots.
2) the reload time in somewhere around 7 seconds. an for 6 shots thats to slow i think. maby about 4.5-5 secs would work good.
3 it has WAY to much arc on it. VS wepons are all start fire why dose the arurs have to be different? at least thay would make it so the shoots had about half the arc thay have now.

i fear the raider thou..i ran accrose 1 yesterday an before i had time to say "o shit" i was mowed down form full heath. :scared: )

[Sanguinarius]

My experience has been limited to gunning a Raider.

- I like the sound of the guns.
- The RoF strikes me as a bit slow
- The damage seems a bit weak
- The depression angle needs to be increased. The Raider guns cannot hit infantry who are within 20-30 yards because the guns can't aim low enough.
- Having no splash damage makes inflicting damage, espeically on smaller targets like infantry, pretty hard while in motion.
- Doing significant/effective damage requires 4 gunners accurately firing at the same target. That's three different variables. To be effective the Raider requires much more than the other two variants. It requires a greater number of people, a higher number of accurate gunners, and a higher level of coordination. As such, the requirements for effectiveness are much higher for the Raider than for the dual-gunned (splash-damage?) Araura and Thunderer.

Things that concern me about the Thunderer:

- Apparently each gun can 1-shot Rexo infantry, that's not cool.
- What I hear on these boards and from my own outfit mates is that it can, in many situations, effectively duel our Prowler tanks. That's not cool either. A glorified armored car should never be able to present a significant threat to a MBT. Also, since both the Thunderer and the Prowler have two gunners, the 'more gunners needs to = more powerful' argument doesn't excuse this situation as both have the same # of gunners. Also, that arguement can lead to "glass cannons" which is always a bad result.
- The Thunderer like all Deli variants, can be gotten without a Tech Plant. Both TR and VS need tech plants to get their most effective Anti-Tank vehicles (Reaver and MBTs). Long-range accuracy is a good stand-in for armor. If the Thunderer hits about as hard as a Vanguard and can do so from range, it's about as good as a Vanguard, but does not require a Tech Plant. That ain't cool either.

I'm aware my feedback on the Thunderer is hearsay, but much of it seems to be reinforced by what I'm hearing in the field as well as what I read on the Test Server boards. If it's true the Thunderer is over-powered and VS and TR versions aren't equal compensation.

[Biohazzard56]

Thunderer > Prowler

[QuakCow]

well..the aurora shots are kinda slow....dodgeable by infantry, yet to go up against the other 2

[Onizuka-GTO]

Aurora > Infantry/ATV

Everything > Aurora

:rolleyes:

[Nisloscen]

If it is more powerful then the NC will win. If the NC win, they'll get nerfed. The moment the TR and VS only have one cont and 200+ people are stuck in the sanctuary they'll nerf it bad.

[Indecisive]

Thunderer > Prowler


Indeed. And very over powered. The raider is nice, but anything is crap compared to the thund.

Cant comment too much on the aurora. That secondary mode is pretty spiffy.

Thund..holy crap -_-


From OF:

http://www.talinia.net/img/tinfo.gif


The nc seem to have, in general:

Fast ROF
Instagib
Large clips


What the fuck. They cant have all three can they?

[Onizuka-GTO]

Talking about the Prowler, i came across this picture:

http://www.army-technology.com/contractor_images/hagglunds/hagglunds2.jpg

very Prowler like. :D

[FatalLight]

:rofl: :lol: Lol thats great stuff (The pic with change quotes (two up))

[Indecisive]

Phff. Prowler is more box like then that.

[Onizuka-GTO]

what? it isn't squared enough for you? :huh:

I think it is.....

[Indecisive]

Nah, its too short to be a prowler. Prowler has like a profile 5 feet higher.

[Baneblade]

Talking about the Prowler, i came across this picture:

http://www.army-technology.com/contractor_images/hagglunds/hagglunds2.jpg

very Prowler like. :DIf the Prowler looked like that...I'd trade my Van for one...

As cool as the Deliverer is, it did not need more of those types of variants...

I would rather have seen Lightning variants...

[ChewyLSB]

Why did the VS complain when they didn't have an arc fire weapon, but complain when they get an arc fire weapon?

[Lartnev]

Because like whiners from all empires they are narrow minded :(

[Onizuka-GTO]

...I would rather have seen Lightning variants...

That's right. Have more single-player only vehicles, who needs co-operative play when you can be rambo?

:rolleyes:

Because like whiners from all empires they are narrow minded :(

I'll keep that in mind, but from my experience gunning and driving the Aurora, you have to be pretty blind to say that those whiners don't have a point.

like they say:

"when there is smoke....." :rolleyes:

[MadCat360]

Well, I think the Raider is very well-balenced, but the Thunderer and Aurora are WWWWAAAAAYYYYY over-powered. Both one-shot-kill infantry but thats okay with the Thund because of its low fire rate, however, the Aurora can shoot all six shots in under a socond, thats insanity! And the Aurora style gun would go better with the NC but not with the socondary fire mode. As for the Thunderer... No one asked for a Vangaurd replacement! It does WAY to much damage to vehicles (350 from what I have heard, the Van does 450 with a much slower ROF!) This thing can own, yes OWN, Prowlers. But the Fury is just right, no massive damage, no huge clip, and not to much armour. I have taken out dumb-driverd Deliverers with about 7-8 shots.

[Onizuka-GTO]

.....Thunderer and Aurora are WWWWAAAAAYYYYY over-powered. Both one-shot-kill invantry but thats okay with the Thund because of its low fire rate, however, the Aurora can shoot all six shots in under a socond, thats insanity!

That would be insane, except Arurora Fluxpod mortars are SUPPOSE to be effective Anti-Infantry, (while apparently Gauss Canonns are multi-purpose-kill-everything) and that is if you can get all of them to hit on target, but is impossible over 20m because the CoF bloom is BIG and absolutely wild.

Effective range is under 50m, reload is LONG and it only holds six shots in the magazine + No air defence + weak against armour = dead Aurora. :rolleyes:

Of course this wouldn't be a problem as all vehicles have a weak and good points. But it is no FUN when you die bfore you can reach the frontline and kill anything, as you don't generally see a large group of infantry packed together standing still in the open with no Air support or Anti-Armour units in a heavy battle situation and at 20-50m away for an Arurora to shoot at. :rolleyes:

Of course i could be wrong, i mean if they are lucky, it's really is LUCK, or they could be all linkdead, or they could be just...mmm..stupid? :doh:

[Yerster]

Why did the VS complain when they didn't have an arc fire weapon, but complain when they get an arc fire weapon?



I have never complained back n arced wepons. i like them...arc wepons suck!

Originally Posted by MadCat360
.....Thunderer and Aurora are WWWWAAAAAYYYYY over-powered. Both one-shot-kill invantry but thats okay with the Thund because of its low fire rate, however, the Aurora can shoot all six shots in under a socond, thats insanity!

umm who told you that? the Aurora is not a 1 shot kill on infintry...you can use the second fire mode an kill a agile an almost kill a rexo with all 6 shots. so it is no 1 shot kill. an the reload time is stupid. how can it be a effected anti-infintry weapon if you only get 6 shots an thay can be dodged.

[kcirreda]

Well said, Onizuka.

Raider: Its ok how it is. (OMG, it didnt suffer from prowler syndrome?!?)

Aurora: Needs a clip of 8+ and/or a lower arc.

Thunder: Less infrantry damage, SLIGHTLY higher arc. Veh damage nerf or leave it the same (PLZ NERF IT)

[Rbstr]

no arc on the Thunderer at all. its suposed to be that way.

less infantry would be ok but AV is good.

the radier is awesome as is

the aurora could use more clip

[Baneblade]

That's right. Have more single-player only vehicles, who needs co-operative play when you can be rambo?

:rolleyes:

Be a fool on someone else's time please...

It doesn't have to be Lightnings, it can be buggies, I still want my Enforcer variant that isnt Reaver food...

PS: Two person Lightning would be fun...

[Diddy Mao]

Contrary to TR and Vs whinning, the Thunderer has very lil splash damge. It's almost laughable, If you guys don't like getting gunned down while foot zerging.... get in a vehicle. The Armor damage is a lil excentric I will admit that, but a Raider is more deadl with "skilled" and "coordinated" gunners (If the Tr have any) ^^

[Seer]

Why did the VS complain when they didn't have an arc fire weapon, but complain when they get an arc fire weapon?

BS!

A) Nobody on the vs complained about not having arc fire. The arcs are so shallow in the game that all they do is screw up your aim. The VS complained about having no splash damage.

B) If we get an arc fire weapon that mauls infantry but the TR and the NC get weapons that can maul infantry, vehicles, and to a certain extent air, we have every right to complain.

C) There is far more whining in this thread about the Raider and it's multiperson requirement.

Idiotic setup. Moronic spike, the poster immediately afterwords.

[Onizuka-GTO]

Be a fool on someone else's time please...

It doesn't have to be Lightnings, it can be buggies, I still want my Enforcer variant that isnt Reaver food...

PS: Two person Lightning would be fun...

im all for co-operative variants, i just think its better when you need to have at leased someone to gun with you when you in a vehicles it's more fun.
Though i have to admit i missed out on the Fury, i think its fine as it is.
I just don't see the point of giving people the chance to be more selfish and not being a team player by just grabbing a lightening/reaver/mosquito variant and go off guns blazing not caring about your squad.
:rolleyes:
Plus, thanks for the insult, i will store it for later use when i run out of words to say.
:doh:

[Baneblade]

im all for co-operative variants, i just think its better when you need to have at leased someone to gun with you when you in a vehicles it's more fun.
Though i have to admit i missed out on the Fury, i think its fine as it is.
I just don't see the point of giving people the chance to be more selfish and not being a team player by just grabbing a lightening/reaver/mosquito variant and go off guns blazing not caring about your squad.
:rolleyes:
Plus, thanks for the insult, i will store it for later use when i run out of words to say.
:doh:
Im the guy who wants bloody airships...no lack of teamwork there...:rolleyes:

PS: If that was an insult, you really have low standards...

[Warborn]

... but a Raider is more deadl with "skilled" and "coordinated" gunners (If the Tr have any) ^^

No, it's not. At least, not against infantry, and not against anything at a distance. The rapid cof bloom makes the guns very inaccurate at range, and killing infantry with them while the vehicle is moving, ascending and desending hills and so on, is very difficult. The Raider is quite bad at killing infantry unless the infantry are very close to it, but not too close lest they move under the guns. The Thunderer, on the other hand, has a much easier time with it, not only because it shoots a single accurate projectile with a strong punch, but because they don't need to keep the crosshairs trained on the target, which the Raider gunners do, which is not very easy when the vehicle is moving around and the cof is making your shots go off target anyway.

Furthermore, why is it that the Thunderer is A-OK being very strong with a crew of retarded apes, yet the Raider requires a coordinated crew (LAWL IF THE TR HAVE ANY LAWL), something you never get outside an Outfit squad? I don't remember when our Empire's theme changed to "lot's of shitty gunns which require a large crew to make equal to enemy vehicles provided the crew all works together, which of course random pubbies are renown for." I certainly hope our future variants go back to the many-bullets concept rather than the bloated crew, weak individual armaments one we've got going now.

[Lartnev]

I think a single 15mm is pretty powerful providing you hit the target, which is by no means easy. 4 15mms.... you beauty!

The Raiders AA defence isn't all it's cracked up to be, it's not particularly accurate, and I remember smoke saying that the 15mms do far less damage than 20mms, so that the standard deliverer would be better for air cover.

As far as the Aurora goes, I don't know about clip size or anything like that, but I can see that thing attacking a tower, AMS or base courtyard and seriously messing up infantry inside. Of course, it's got to get that far first.

The Thunderer.... hmmm yes overpowered. It's supposed to be accurate, it's supposed to be powerful. Those are the two biggest advantages to gauss technology. But just like its smaller breatheren in MA it has to conform to balance, and I'm pretty sure they devs will be changing values sooner or later.

Oh, and everyone's forgotton about the new AMS... own up, who keeps going to the back of the AMS to get their equipment? *raises hand* :lol:

[Fragmatic]

OMG I love the sound of the Raider... :drools:

[Yerster]

ya the Raider sounds awsoem when attacking hehe.

last niht i played for about 3 hours an almost everytime i died was to a thunderer... not kool. hehe i was trying to pick it off with my reaver an another thunerer took me down from behind.

i understand that the NC "pride" themselfs on powerfull, an accurate. but i dont think it is "balanced" when you get everythign why the other empiers get half ass.

[Toneball]

no arc on the Thunderer at all. its suposed to be that way.

less infantry would be ok but AV is good.

the radier is awesome as is

the aurora could use more clip

I agree completely. The only thing I can think of is to nerf the damage of the Thundy a little bit, at least to infantry. For those who think the Raider sux, please explain more. I mean, what more could you ask for? You don't NEED all four gunners on the same target, I mean ya it helps but you can successfully run off a reaver with two guns on it while the other two have another target. Plus, when you see the blanket of fire 3 Raiders with all 4 guns firing in the same general direction is pretty discouraging. Anyways, that's it for me.

L8

[Radaeron]

The Thunderer.... hmmm yes overpowered. It's supposed to be accurate, it's supposed to be powerful. Those are the two biggest advantages to gauss technology. But just like its smaller breatheren in MA it has to conform to balance, and I'm pretty sure they devs will be changing values sooner or later.

Oh, and everyone's forgotton about the new AMS... own up, who keeps going to the back of the AMS to get their equipment? *raises hand* :lol:

1st part - I suppose I don't mind its huge damage or good accuracy, but I reckon they could at least slow down teh refire rate by a second at least :)

2nd part - I decon'd at the back :( And when I actually -wanted- to decon because of being attacked by a zillion other ppl it wouldn't let me :(

yet the Raider requires a coordinated crew (LAWL IF THE TR HAVE ANY LAWL),

We got a co-ordinated crew, but needs TS. Still, not easy to aim ;) Bumpy hills and roads see to it, hehe

[Rbstr]

But just like its smaller breatheren in MA it has to conform to balance, and I'm pretty sure they devs will be changing values sooner or later.

Oh, and everyone's forgotton about the new AMS... own up, who keeps going to the back of the AMS to get their equipment? *raises hand* :lol:

You call the guass too powerfull? What game are you playing?

I keep doing that too, deconstructed myself a couple of times aswell

[Indecisive]

Oh, and everyone's forgotton about the new AMS... own up, who keeps going to the back of the AMS to get their equipment? *raises hand* :lol:


<----

[tmax]

going on a head to head basis a full thunderer, raider and arura are all about equal aginst eachother. But the problem comes that for every 1 radier the tr can pump out and fully load, the vanu and nc can pump out 2. Now trying to take down 2 tunderers with one raidr is a helpless cause and you might as well just bend over and grab your ankles. I alos do find it quite redicular that the thuderers shells will take out a rexo in one shot. Pretty much what the nc now have in their arsenal is a non tech plant tank. Im not saying the tr got the crappyest one but its the same with the prowler. sure its good that we can fit 3 people in there but we stand no chance when the nc can gun 5 vans in a full squad and we can only get 3. If we had the dominant majority of players in our empire id say having more seats would be a good idea but otherwise were just getting bent over on the deal

[Desperado]

I have a new killwhore cert, It's called ATV

I killed 3 magriders, a vanguard, a low hovering reaver, a shitload of buggies and too many lightnings than I can count

fury for teh win

[KrazeyHorse]

i h8 Aurora, if ur gunners aren't experts... it just isn't effective... I think it needs a bigger clip size.

[Rbstr]

thunderers no longer take out infanty in one shot (agile/rexo) unless they had some damage already

Also the Raider has much more DOT than Any of the other dels, i personaly think more gunners is an advantage, keeping two behind and two forward was quiet effective last night untill NC started binging in the tanks

[Warborn]

Also the Raider has much more DOT than Any of the other dels

No, it doesn't. Maybe if you completely ignore how the game is played and just look at some spreadsheet it does, but in practical situations the Raider doesn't do more damage because all of your bullets will not hit unless you're point blank. Even if you keep the gun trained on the target the bloom will cause many of your shots to go stray and you will not do the damage you could. Coupled with the movement of the Raider and the problem only worsens. If the Raider had no cof bloom and the terrain wasn't so rough then perhaps you'd do close to your maximum damage potential, but saying its damage over time is comparable is like saying a MCG's damage at 100 yards is greater than that of a bolt driver's.

[FatalLight]

...in practical situations the Raider doesn't do more damage because all of your bullets will not hit unless you're point blank. Even if you keep the gun trained on the target the bloom will cause many of your shots to go stray and you will not do the damage you could.

I hear this too much. The reason it is so inacurate is because ther are so many of you! If you all shoot at the same person you might not think it but your buddies are hitting it too and Ive been shot by it in a vec, the damage adds up fast. If the crew know what they are doing it should only take you 15-20 seconds. Also some one said the thund doesnt kill rexo in 1 shot ne mor. Um THERS 2 GUNS. Its basically 1 shot if you guys work together. Its the same with the aurora, if you both in alteration shoot you are basically shooting non stop. Part of the game is working together, thats why its massively multiplayer...

[Onizuka-GTO]

PS: If that was an insult, you really have low standards...

:lol:

i was in a mood at the time i posted that.
But to be honest, a insult is a insult no matter what the standard.... :rolleyes:

but i forgive you, because you love the Gunship as much as me. :love:

[Warborn]

I hear this too much. The reason it is so inacurate is because ther are so many of you! If you all shoot at the same person you might not think it but your buddies are hitting it too and Ive been shot by it in a vec, the damage adds up fast.

No, you're incorrect. Even with all four guns trained on a target, unless they're very close, they will take a while to die. I wouldn't expect you to understand this unless you've gunned for a Raider a lot in battle. If it's a vehicle and it's close, yes, it will take a lot of damage. If it's infantry and it's not close, unless there isn't any cover or some equally unusual situation is afoot, it will generally make it out alive.

[Diddy Mao]

Killing infantry with them while the vehicle is moving, ascending and desending hills and so on, is very difficult.

Same With the thunderer, yet ours is a single shot with hardly any splash damage

The Raider is quite bad at killing infantry unless the infantry are very close to it
Exact opposite for Thunderer the downward angle on it is horrendous if you get within 5 meters on foot it can't touch u unless the thunder pulls away and lines you up.(by then It would have been jammered and light up by Strikers, Lancers)

The Thunderer, on the other hand, has a much easier time with it, not only because it shoots a single accurate projectile with a strong punch

Negative It's just as hard, the Thunderer is not as accurate as you think you either get a direct hit or you don't, the splash damage doesn't do enough to cause signifigant damage


Furthermore, why is it that the Thunderer is A-OK being very strong with a crew of retarded apes, yet the Raider requires a coordinated crew (LAWL IF THE TR HAVE ANY LAWL)

Thunder needs a coordinated crew as well, it doesn't have the Splash Damage of the Magrider, Vanguard, Prowler so you actually time you shots (Raider you just hold down the button till you need to reload), A raider is just as deadly, a Thunder can become reaver bait if it's not manned by a competent gunner

[Warborn]

Same With the thunderer, yet ours is a single shot with hardly any splash damage

It's easier to line up a single shot in rough terrain than to keep the crosshairs trained on a target. The splash damage gives you room for error, too. You won't hit every shot, of course, but Thunderers are far more effective against infantry than Raiders.


Exact opposite for Thunderer the downward angle on it is horrendous if you get within 5 meters on foot it can't touch u unless the thunder pulls away and lines you up.(by then It would have been jammered and light up by Strikers, Lancers)

The Raider has the same issue. When I refer to very close range, I of course mean close, but far enough away that the guns can actually swivel down enough to fire at the target. All the Deliverer variants have this issue, as does the Deliverer itself.

Negative It's just as hard, the Thunderer is not as accurate as you think you either get a direct hit or you don't, the splash damage doesn't do enough to cause signifigant damage

I think you're downplaying the splash on the Thunderer a little to much. It does have splash, it does hurt, and while it won't instantly kill infantry, it will certainly hurt them quite a bit.

Thunder needs a coordinated crew as well, it doesn't have the Splash Damage of the Magrider, Vanguard, Prowler so you actually time you shots (Raider you just hold down the button till you need to reload), A raider is just as deadly, a Thunder can become reaver bait if it's not manned by a competent gunner

The Thunderer does not need a coordinated crew. Each individual gun is quite powerful. Yes, both of them working on the same target will, as people have mentioned, be enough to stop even Prowlers, but individually they are still quite strong and capable of getting numerous kills, as anyone who's seen them at work knows. The Raider on the other hand has four weak guns which according to the developers balance out because if the gunners work together then the Raider becomes formidable against vehicles or infantry at close range.

However, where the Thunderer can be outfitted with idiots and still do fine because each gun is powerful in its own right, the Raider suffers, because pubbies will not work together on anything but obvious targets (a single Vanguard bearing down on the vehicle, for instance) which means that out of the hands of a very coordinated crew the Raider flounders, because each gun isn't practical enough to compensate for the lack of teamwork inherent in pick up crews. In most cases, Raiders are just a novelty, firing rounds every which way, not doing any serious damage while taking five potential infantry out of the fight.

[Onizuka-GTO]

He's speak truth. With all four guns trained on a target, almost everything except aircrafts at considerable range will be defeat.
I was running in terror in my Magrider when i saw a Raider (which i found out had a full crew and were obviously working well together), and even that wasn't enough since the Raider is faster then a Magrider and it chased me until i either found a safe base or died.

Thunderer i run from immediately, i don't hang around to play with. Thunderer = end of fun.

[AltaEgo]

Oh, and everyone's forgotton about the new AMS... own up, who keeps going to the back of the AMS to get their equipment? *raises hand* :lol:

LMAO :rofl: :rofl: Aye, my friend. I do, also. ;)

[EarlyDawn]

Yeah, I accidentally disinigrated myself that way a few times thus far =D

[Rayder]

I can believe it Early, after last night, not even knowing where your weird cam was.

[KIAsan]

I just gotta say it, Raider sux. Period. It is much better to roll a Del than a raider any day. I would much rather roll two dels than 1 Raider anyway (Bettery damage and more chance for at least one vehicle to survive AND requires just as much coordination as the Raider BUT only requires 1 more body).

For the VS who are complaining, yeah, yours is not as good as it could be, but you can always roll a Del, so you have two choices in platforms. You have the original Del which is a great vehicle AND you get the rolling mortar platform which can be very effective in the right circumstances.

I don't take any NC complaints seriously, they are obviously posting as a disinformation campaign to try to stave off any nerfs.

No, Warborn hit it correctly, the devs are interpreting the TR motto to do less with more. More people to do the job than other empires. I don't mind throwing more bullets, but requiring more people is insane.

[juggalokilla]

i agree that the thunderer is a bit overpowered considering the rate of fire of both guns and damage dealt to anything it confronts. It should not kill rexo in 1 shot. Aurora needs a decent buff with less of an arc and cof to compete with infantry or vehicles at a distance. The raiders weapons are decent but i think to make it more balanced it should have 2 gunners like its alt's with each gunner controlling dual guns trained together like the dual cycler max. it would be much easier to coordinate your fire while keeping with the more bullets flying theme intact. the theme never was more people, it was more lead from the people. Sorry for the lengthy post, FLAME on! :flamemad:

[Papagiorgio]

The Thunderer wins hands down. Reason I say this is for the following personal observations on the Thunderer:

The fairly good AA properties are gravy to an already great meal. Reavers and Mosquitoes are forced to strafe at higher speeds thus lowering their ability to counter them. The Raider is pretty good as well, but it still requires at least 2 gunners to focus on the aircraft when the Thunderer can deal with aircraft using one gunner.
These are just a few observations I had from gaming last night. I can't tell you how many times I got killed in Rexo by a Thunderer one-shotting me. Some of the shots were very good distance shots, effectively nullifying my Deci counterfire. As I said, these are just a few of my observations.

The Thunderer is no good for AA, no more so than any very slow turreted weapon (like the 75mm cannon on the Lightning). :) I get killed by a flurry of Reavers and Mosquitos every time I'm in one.

That said, I think the Aurora needs a buff, the Raider and Thunderer are good. :)

[Hoza]

I think the Aurora can be a very good vehical given the right conditions i.e. Tower or back door seiges it can pin the enemy inside almost as effectively as a flail (And with a lesser chance of wiping out the attacking friendlies). I'd say it's at least as effective as a Prowler in those situations - probably better than the Magrider.
But the ONLY time that it can do this is when you have complete air superiority.

What about replacing the rear Flux Pod with a high powered Pulsar type weapon? This would be more in keeping with the Empire theme of versitility. The Aurora would then be able to suppress troops with the forward Flux Pod and discourage air attacks with the rear Puslar. Note discourage - not obliterate :) I'm not suggesting this thing should be a replacement Skyguard, but it should be enough to make a passing Reaver at 30% health decide to go home and repair before claiming its easy kill.

As it is I think the Aurora simply cannot protect her troops long enough to deliver them to battle which is how the Dev's seem to perceive it's primary role (According to the Stratergy guide).

Just my 2 credits worth...

[Onizuka-GTO]

I agree!

:nod:

[JetRaiden]

the devs said they made the new deliverers bad against air on purpose, so people would use the regular deliverer again. but yea everything you said about the aurora is true.

[SandTrout]

Deli is better at delivering troops than any of the ES varients except the raider, but only because the raider has every passenger gunning, and the combined firepower is greater than any of the other varients.

The Thunder sucks against Air as well, most of the time the passengers will just hop out and start peging an attacking reaver with phoenixes rather than try to take the sucker down with the gauss cannons.

[Onizuka-GTO]

But it's relatively easy to lead and hit an aircraft.

Especially if your use to shooting enemy at long distance with a Lasher and Lancer.

Doesn't matter how "slow" a projectile is, if you can predict the way the target will move, and aim appropriate it will hit.

Therefore when people say the Thunderer is "rubbish" (sorry i mean "trash") at hitting aircraft therefore it's AA/AI damage shouldn't nerfed, just can't aim properly.
And that is only in a probability of 35-45%, and that number will decrease over time.
Thunderer can be deverstating with the average and good gunners....

Unlike the Arurora which has a steep learning curve, large CoF bloom, low RoF, Slow reload, small clip, and can only be effectively used when we have COMPLETE air superiority. Which by then you don't really need armoured transport, nor a Infantry suppression vehicle..... :rolleyes:

[SandTrout]

By that thory the Aroura is just as good AA as the thunder against air because they both have slow projectiles and low(though the aroura's is still higher) rate of fire.

However, projectile speed has a hell of a lot to do with AA potential because Aircraft are always changeing course, and unless they are very close, you cannot lead a slow projectile to a hit.

[Doop]

All I have to say is, I love them. And the Fury. All of them were a kickass addition to the game, and I like how (Emerald at least) are using them effectively. The only thing I could really mention is, nerf the Gauss cannon, but other then that I really like them, especially the Raider.

[Phaden]

I got a group of peeps irl to play and we used the Deliv and Thunderer for 3 hours on friday night Forsy Emerald. While we were trying to take Anu, we started with the thunderer, as it was new and i wanted to play. We gunned that thing and drove around for about 2 hours. I being the better gunner got 16 some kills. The other gunner got 5. We picked on wounded magriders and that went ok, but constantly reavers and mag columns found us west of the base.

We then switched to standard deliverer for some anti air fun. We lasted over an hour with me being the only experienced player. We tangled with lightnings, mags, tons of reavers and mosquitoes. From the hour run, i got 30 kills and the other gunner got 15. We just plain killed alot more in the reg deliv. Its WAY better than thunderer at anti infantry. Despite the thunderer being one hit kill, it takes alot to hit that damn infantry while battle is raging and the vehic's moving.

I would much rather have a good deliverer pilot and gunner that a thunderer in most situations. Of course its better against vehics than a standard, but its AA is teh suck. Granted i have killed reavers with it, i have also done the same with a vanguard and T72 in DC. Should they be nerfed due to AA "Capabilities?" I think someone can get lucky with 150mm cannon or thunderer, good for them, it takes luck or skill. I think a reaver has more to fear from an AA max than me, and im looking at this whole thing in a giant battle, not one vs. one.

I have seen the Raider and Aurora in battle and was impressed with the raider. Those guns sound cool and they do eat up ground troops really quick. The aurora i think prob needs some help, and i like the secon different gun on the back idea. I was fighting an aurora while ina turret on on one, and i whooped its ass. I came out with about half damage, and he was dead. I dont know what setting they were firing at, but it was probably a poor tactical descision to stay and fight. I would love to geta chance to try out these vehics, maybe ill hop on another server just to see what they are like and compare. But so far i think the thunderer is really cool for specific applications, and think instead of nerfing it, the other if they are deemed inferior, be brought up to that level.