Empire Sunderers?

[BadAsh]

What about alternate weapon loadouts for Sunderers?

I was thinking soomething simple like offering the same varients that Deliverers have only the Sunderer should get 4 of these weapons. I was thinking of having them mounted on the roof directly above the 4 wheel wells allowing the gunners on one side to shoot with the same arc the Sunderer now has, but also to aim lower and closer to the ground on the side they are facing...

This vehicle would be formidible indeed, but requires a "crew" of 5 to fully use effectively... which would reinforce the teamwork ethic this game sports so well.

Sowhatchathink?

[BIGTROJANMAN]

if you have the guns on the roof above the wheels they would have to move the drivers seat so it wouldnt work like that... good idea though.

[Rbstr]

interestion but i want my Gauss Cannon Reaver/Lightning first

[BadAsh]

if you have the guns on the roof above the wheels they would have to move the drivers seat so it wouldnt work like that... good idea though.

That's just a technicality that is easily worked around... the gunner could sit anywhere and remote the cannon controls so the gunner seats are arbitrary� you just need 4 somewhere.

I just like the idea of a heavy fighting vehicle that can assault a position, move in, and drop off a squad of troops.

[BadAsh]

interestion but i want my Gauss Cannon Reaver/Lightning first

Reaver... NO, Lightning YES. The empire lightning would be cool, but the Reaver is already a spank machine as it is... besides the NC and VS empire guns are not good against air... the TR gun is... so the skys will turn RED with air superiority Reavers.

[Baneblade]

Personally, all I would want on one is 6x 20mm (or 12mm) guns...

I would even take out the two 75mm guns, add in 2 MAX spots to make up for it and you have a far more useful vehicle...

Course the overpowered NC version would require a 150mm mounted in the middle with Lightning turrets (75mm and coaxial 12mm) filling in the rest of the spots...and give the MAXes Phoenix style missles...:evil:

[slytiger]

Are we forgetting that these vehicles(sunderer and delivs) are supposed to be transports? Plus, dont ya think the sunderer is a kinda big target?

[Lartnev]

Hence why it needs bigger guns. It's a shame, I really want the Sunderer to be something that people can jump in, and ride straight into a zerg with more than a snowball's chance in hell of dropping of its passengers.

[BadAsh]

Are we forgetting that these vehicles(sunderer and delivs) are supposed to be transports? Plus, dont ya think the sunderer is a kinda big target?

Yeah, but I like the idea of transports capable of blasting through defenses and then dropping off troops.

If the Sunderer had better guns and had a lower arc of fire it would own. As it is now its a SLOW transport that has a HUGE profile and has weapons suited for long range shelling more like artillery and not really defense or attack.

[Onizuka-GTO]

I agree the Sunderer needs a more defensive/offensive weaponary.

In these cases, i would love to replace the one 75mm with probably a twin-linked 35mm on a raised turret to allow a lower angle of attack and the other with a Smoke-grenade launcher.

While the Twin-linked 35mm are identical to the 35mm used on the Liberator, it wil ltruly fire "linked" not alternating. This one will be situated on the front. while it is true that the RoF is abit slow, and the CoF is erratic beyond 200m it will have enough power to fend off vehicles, infantry and Aircraft.
The true prize would be the smoke launcher, unlike a regular grenade launcher it has 6 launch tubes fanning out. You can aim it 360 Degrees but you cannot change the angle of firing.
When approaching the drop off zone, the twin-linked 35mm will provide covering fire, and the smoke launcher will fire its maximum clip of 6 smoke grenades around the sunderer. This will cover the disembarking troops, it throw off TR striker locks, and reduce visibility within the smoke cloud to around 2m. Of course phoenixes can still operate but they will find much hard to locate the sunderer in the smoke. The cover will last for 15 seconds, the sunderer can quickly turn around speed away.
This weapon will have some damaging effect on non-rexo targets, but its not really suppose to be an offensive weapon, just a tool to defend the vehicle.

[Nalar]

I was thinking soomething simple like offering the same varients that Deliverers have only the Sunderer should get 4 of these weapons.

Quick question though: if they are to be the same as the deli varients, what would you do for the TR version which already has 4 guns? make 8 guns on the sund version and have a crew of 9?

[Onizuka-GTO]

Quick question though: if they are to be the same as the deli varients, what would you do for the TR version which already has 4 guns? make 8 guns on the sund version and have a crew of 9?

well to be fair, because its a larger and heavily vehicles, you could still have two gunners, with maybe twin-linked 25mm? A hail of bullets fits the build in my option. I still don't understand the developers idea of more bullets/more crew.... :rolleyes:

The previous post was an idea for a common pool version.

Smoke cover really does make a difference, it's therma/laser/visibility cover cannot be underestimated.

[Baneblade]

Why not just take all the guns off the Party Bus and give it a timed cloak...

[Onizuka-GTO]

Why not just take all the guns off the Party Bus and give it a timed cloak...

.......... ?

And that fits the theme for...which empire?

[Baneblade]

Empire themes...easy

TR: Stretch version that carries 2 more infantry and 2 more Rexos

NC: Slightly more armored and stretched enough to take on 2 more infantry

VS: Floats and is otherwise as is now (cloaked of course)

Course the cloak doesnt really need to be timed if they get more visible as they get faster...

[Cryptica]

I dunno from what I hear the phantasm supposedly would be a cloaking transport...I dunno though I haven't heard too much.

[Lartnev]

yeah, Phantasm is a cloaking flying transport. Requires an infiltrator to fly it though.

The Sunderer's defence is its armour and firepower (which the 75mms don't really live up to). That's the direction in which any variants should take advantage.

[dm_cowsfromhell]

... or, we could just forget empire specific sunderers and make a nonredundant concept like empire specific reavers or all-weapon access. :evil:

[Onizuka-GTO]

Empire themes...easy

TR: Stretch version.......
NC: Slightly more armored and.....
VS: Floats and is otherwise as is now (cloaked of course)

Course the cloak doesnt really need to be timed if they get more visible as they get faster...

Your general idea for the TR and NC specifics sounds good, and i think all specific should also have an "ejection" feature, ability to bail ike they were in a aircraft.
As for the VS...
Yes! I've been thinking they should of had Anti-Gravity drives, in the first place! :rolleyes:
I have concept design of a floating APC/IFV carrying 8 personal. Driver, a twin-linked pulsar turret gunner (front-left), a aurora turret gunner (bottom right), open-top MAX seat allowing it to fire out (in the centre, when occupied the front gunner will not be able to shoot over or though the MAX to cover that sector and same for the back turret. Relying on the MAX to cover/plus depending which max has boarded i.e. AA/AV/AI) the MAX is protected by a forcefield like on on the lodestar, and when shot at the vehicle will take the damage not the MAX. Plus four normal passenger seats. It can travel around 75kph with usual anti-grav driving properties.
The anti-Gravity drives ability to strafe, has speed, the vesitile application of changing MAXes should fit the bill perfectly for the Vanu theme, though i'm not so sure about the timed cloak, even for the Vanu. It would be i my opinion overpowering any vehicle if given the right use.

[Firefly]

For the Sunderers, since it is a heavy transport with heavy weapons, I was thinking this:

First, the concept of alternate weapons load-outs is that you change the WEAPONS, not the frikkin' vehicle. In other words, you swap out weapons. Change them out for another set. Is this clear yet, or am I talking to the cicadas? Armor and speed and vehicle body remain essentially the same, and IF you add more armor then your speed is REDUCED. And not by point-five KPH.

NC: heavy rail gun - slow rate of fire, VERY slow, much damage versus armored targets such as vehicles and MAX. *NO* splash damage, as a rail-gun weapon is essentially a metallic slug that relies on armor-piercing effect for damage. Such a weapon would have no arc for a very long range. A coaxial (meaning side-saddle to the maingun like the Vanguard) 20mm to fight against ground troops, since a railgun would have to be direct-hit to kill infantry. One more time- rail gun/Gauss rifle: an electro-magnetically accelerated slug of metal that relies on armor-piercing ability to punch through targets. Not an insta-gib Mega-Zorg Weapon Of Doom that kills vehicles, aircraft, tanks, MAX and infantry with two shots regardless of where it hits so long as it blows up within twenty feet. (Since the developers all play NC and need the upper hand, I must stress this point over and over- or we'll all be hiding in the Auraxis Core for refuge against the NC Empire)

TR: autocannon - perhaps two twin-mounted 35mm cannons that fire HE rounds (like the Groundpounder rounds). Since rate of fire and damage over time is the key (even though that's bullshit in battle), that's why you're looking at two twin-35mm. The HE rounds allow for dual-use against armor and infantry targets. 35+35=70, which is less than 75 in case you're tempted to be a weener and argue. The HE rounds are to compensate for the slightly-downgraded firepower.

VS: either a pair of particle-pulse cannons that have line-of-sight and limited splash, or heavy lasers (none of that lame orb or lash garbage, this isn't Magic: The Gathering). Because we're talking about energy weapons, they obviously would face degraded damage after a certain range - a long range, but not as long as the arc on a railgun. Either that, or add a capacitor feature like the ancient sentry turrets down in the caverns. When I say capacitor, I don't mean a drum of ammo charges like CC infantry weaponry. I mean a limitless source of recyclable energy that runs off the vehicle battery- if depleted, it must recharge. Using it like a Rambo machine gun and holding the trigger down would also possibly reduce damage if it dips below 50% in one salvo.

[KIAsan]

Good ideas. You need to take this to the OF and see if you can get a dev to read it. Althought the vision of TR hiding in the caves for refuge is getting closer to reality with every patch.

For the TR sundy, I can see it now, 10 15mm cannons that do just as much damage as the 2 75mms. That way, ours would require all 10 to serve as gunners to match the strength of the normal sundy. Of course, it would be slower, harder to handle and would delete the two max spots for softies (can't gun those cannons with maxs). Yeah, that's about what I would expect from the devs.

[Zosky]

(doesn't remember BBCode)
Oni-> open-top MAX seat allowing it to fire out

That would atcually be kind of stupid... It would be like Tribes 2 with their open top and easy killability of the passengers. Wouldn't it suck, getting your MAX's killed before the battle

[Lartnev]

(doesn't remember BBCode)
Oni-> open-top MAX seat allowing it to fire out

That would atcually be kind of stupid... It would be like Tribes 2 with their open top and easy killability of the passengers. Wouldn't it suck, getting your MAX's killed before the battle

Happens all the time anyway :D

You couldn't kill the individual passengers in Tribes 2 could you?

[Onizuka-GTO]

(doesn't remember BBCode)
Oni-> open-top MAX seat allowing it to fire out

That would atcually be kind of stupid... It would be like Tribes 2 with their open top and easy killability of the passengers. Wouldn't it suck, getting your MAX's killed before the battle

Ah i said it was covered by a forcefield.

So any body targetting the MAX will cause only damage to the vehicle, not the MAX

Just like the forcefield on a Lodestar over it's passenger

[Baneblade]

:)

What I really want is my Trident (Infantry Online) hovering battletank...

But stealing hovering VS Party Buses would rock too...

[Zosky]

Yea Lartnev, I would sit near the launch pad and snipe out the the passangers and pilots... Good times

[Lartnev]

:lol:

Didn't know that :)

[Zosky]

It is very handy, sorry Oni, I pulled a me and didn't read it all. I just skim over stuff. Bt yea Lart, it is very handy to do that. Does anyone still play T2, because I havent in a long time.

[BUGGER]

About the pilots/passengers in tribes2, techincally no. You cannot shoot out the passengers or pilots if they are in their own team's vehicle, you'll only hit the shield. However, if it is a stolen vehicle from the other team you can snipe the pilots/passengers. Course thats if your playing clean T2, no mods.


As for the sunderer, it is rather low in the food chain, though the 4 guns idea wouldn't be too....yea... I just got a crazy idea now that since its a pretty big target to pilots, put a flak cannon/missle launcher on the back and then 2 separate anti infantry guns in the front. dunno.....wouldn'[t help on infultrating the enemy courtyard. :\