Growing frustration with Balance.

[NoSurrender]

(Note: im not switching or anything this is just a collection of thoughts that i wanted opinions and ideas on)

I've spent a fair share of my PS time as TR. I've noticed a couple of things. The TR idea doesn't really work well (or equally) as compared to others. EX: the Burster one of our GREAT(not) maxes tries to kill a reaver, the burster has to unload his full clip to kill the reaver while its standing still to make sure he kills it, while the Starfire can just lock on and boom its clip is out , and it's alot easier for the MAX to kill the aircraft. The Groundpounder(marauder sp? ) is terrible. It has such a low dmg ratio its not even effective. Im frustrated that when the vanu whine about a NC buff or new item (Noone bitches about TR cuz it sux) the devs take a really hard long look at fixing it. While, the TR who have been bitching about our AV that is more like Sub-par AA, or our maxes that can hold their own to the NC or VS. The devs just ignore it. I've asked spork during community night to look at the prowlers 12mms. To possibly make them more effective. The devs don't seem to care about the TR. It's getting annoying while the VS keep getting buffed. ( i know it's not the vanu or cong's fault ) CDL has had two people switch sides. One was a Cr5 and another TR cr5 went vanu for a while. TR have been waiting and waiting for the devs to buff the TR equipment , but the devs don't recepricate(sp?). I hope that maybe this will get some attention and ideas to replace the Pounder, Burster, and Groundpounder

[Indecisive]

Its kinda funny, because everyone said the same thing about the Dev's playing favorites in favor of the TR at release.

I think the striker is fine. Fix the lock on issues and its perfect. The whole lock on dealy makes killing pretty easy. If_everyone thinks that its bad, up the rocket speed a tad.

Prowler sucks. Thundys can beat it no problem. PHEER THE BOX!

MAX's are a complete joke. I think everyone can agree on this.

MCG is fine. Still hate this retarted JH sniping thing, but thats not going to change.

Repeater is pretty bad, but eh, all pistols are, cept that bastard mag scatterer.

Maurader sucks because its just a bloody pounder max on a ford pick up with a tiny viewing slot -_-. Need to get that main gun fixed.

Raider is awesome. By it self. I still stand by the fact the the thunderer needs a bigger nerf then 1/2 blast radius. Bastard instagibing sonofabitch.

But eh. We are the TR. The general inteligence level of said empire dosent seem to deserve good weapons. However, we do. So gimme.

[NoSurrender]

yea i forgot to mention, MCG ,reapeter ,cycler are fine. The striker just doesn't stack up to the other AV. also, you wont kill a reaver or mossie 9/10. you'll just piss it off.

[TheN00b]

yea i forgot to mention, MCG ,reapeter ,cycler are fine. The striker just doesn't stack up to the other AV. also, you wont kill a reaver or mossie 9/10. you'll just piss it off.

You are utterly, absolutely and completely wrong about the Striker. It has flat-out amazing AA capabilities, and excellent AV power in large groups.

[JetRaiden]

yea, repeater and MAG scat are about equal. MAG Scat kills fast, but you have to land all the pellets on their back, and with a 6 shot clip, its extremely hard. Striker is good I think, people forget that to use AV effectively, you need to work together, with the exception of maxes.

[Nalar]

One thing I dont understand about the whole "yay but the striker wont kill a mossie most of the time, just scare them away" argument is that none of the empire AV weapons will kill a mossie most of the time. As soon as you land the first shot, no matter what weapon you use, the pilot usually runs away (unless of course they are really dumb).

[Keebler]

My 2 cents: Ok, so I'm NC and me and my bud have a pheonix. big bad TR reaver comes along, we shoot. by buddy misses cuz the reaver straffed and he missed. he kills me before i reload, and my buddy soon after. not much damage done
So I go TR, and same thing, buddy with me, with strikers. Once the reaver sees us, we shoot a good ammount of strikers and do some decent damage before he gets us.

What the TR need is thanks, not lust. If the kid next to you gets a mega-death robot, and you only have a death robot, you outsmart him, not go crying to your mommy about your robot. (I know, its random, but it's proving my point)

The point is: stop complaining. Unfortunate as it is, we all cant be exactly equal. The TR dont exactly get thier asses kicked all the time, atleast on emerald.

[EarlyDawn]

The burster is crap as far as MAXes go. You need to lead high-altitude or fast moving targets and the flak does not always burst correctly as advertised.

The "quityerbitchin" argument isn't one. As you can see here, people of all empires agree that TR armor aspects (MAXes, Tank) are pretty bad. We deserve just as much of a chance at balance as you do.

Omg and NoS, paragraphing dude. You're raping my eyes.

[JetRaiden]

QUIT YER BITCHIN

;)

TR is little gimped, only slightly though. they still do fine on the battlefield, now that theyve learned to compromise.

[Indecisive]

Yes. Common pool certs instead of max's.


Look me in the eye and tell me that the max's arnt gimped.


You will not be able to laugh uncontrobally.



Also, I stand firm by the striker is fine, aside from the whole LOOK THERES A LEAF!! LETS LOCK ONTO THAT INSTEAD! thing.

[scarpas]

ok... whoever said the maurader sucks deserves to get the utimate punisment (stabbed with a pencil by kam)

it does have its weaknesses (anti armor), but hands down it is one of the best anti infantry vehicles in the game( next to reaver, flail, thunderer, devs) and it has a modest aa capability.

the last and best advantage i shall not reveal, for fear of losin an outfit secret {snicker}

[Diddy Mao]

If the TR get their shit together they won't need to go and cry n3rf @ everything that isn't TR :lol:

[ZionsFire]

The Burster is the absolute best AA defense when it comes to where the reavers are going in for rocket runs over the base. That thing chews through aircraft.

[Lartnev]

I've never had a problem with the burster not bursting when it should do.... the exception of course is when you're attempting to shoot something at point blank and the flak hasn't armed.

[SandTrout]

Most AA maxes concentrate on reavers doing rocket runs anways, Libs have too much armor to get shot down before geting out of range. Libs are work for aircraft for all 3 empires. The only time you see a Lib go down to AA MAX fire is when they are flying low altitude or there are an absolutely MASSIVE amount of AA MAXes on the base. That is probably the TR's biggest problem, too few people cert the burster.

1 Sparrow gets compleatly owned by any reaver or a good mossquitoe. So does 1 Burster that hasn't locked down. Starfire is the only AA max that can go head on with reavers, and that's because of the jumping.

Edit: Oh yeah, the Prowler is an absolute beast, you don't need the 12mm's manned, but they are a nice option to have against aircraft.

[Onizuka-GTO]

mmm..two TR unBalanced threads...should we start a VS unbalanced Thread too? :p

After all we all know TR's and VS are the Underdogs, all the NC can complain about is us complaining about them, which make us complain more, thus NC complain more.
It's a vicious cycle.....that can only be solved by......dividing the larger NC population and distrubute then to TR and VS and taking all the existing TR's and VS under the NC.
Thus NC can't whine about themselves, and TR's and VS's can whine about the NC for a change.

:lol: :rolleyes:

[NoSurrender]

yes but, when the VS whine the devs actually care. I asked Spork during community

night about the prowler, and he just didnt seem to care. While, when the VS cry NERF or BUFF! they actually respond and decide to make changes.

[Onizuka-GTO]

is that why they made the Aurora even worse? :mad:

If that's the case, i would rather keep my mouth shut.... :rolleyes:

[Poopy_Pants]

If you play on Emerald you guys should have no reason to complain. During prime-time (with the exception of the past couple of nights) the NC have been battling for one continent. That continent being the only one with any blue on it.

Having said that, the TR and VS obviously have no reason to complain!! You have been kicking our @SS's. Seems to me ATM the balance is not in the NC Favor. If it were.. Dont you think we would have less trouble keeping bases with a 2 way empire pop lock.

Regardless of what you think about individual weaponry or armor. Over all the NC arent any better than the other Empires. One particular that comes to mind is the Falcon Max. The other day.... I had to unload 3 clips of 20 to kill an AMS with my Max and I hit with every single projectile. Not what I would call a decent AV Max.. Would you? In Fact I only use the Falcon to take out Spitfires, mines and Turrets. Anything that moves is virtually impossible to hit with the Falcon. (Unless the Driver Sucks)

VS Lasher and the TR Anti Vehic weapon are far superior to anything that the NC have in those categories.

I am sorry, but I really dont see where the imbalance is.

:confused:

[Onizuka-GTO]

population unbalanced. No matter what you will say, having more members on one empire then the two other emipires combined is as unbalanced as a seasaw with a heavyweight on one side and a light weight on the other.

No matter how weak weapons, tactics they use, if you have sheer numbers you can win anything, as any American worth the stripy flag on the dog can tell you.. :rolleyes:

[TheN00b]

What I find really amusing is that, for some inexplicable reason, the NC have just stopped using Thunderers. On the battlefield, where I used to see around five of them owning everything in sight, I now see none, which allows our vehicles to actually have a chance. Rather this is because of a sense of honor which makes the NC not like to use overpowered vehicles, or if it is a belated attempt to discourage the Devs from nerfing the Thunderer, I do not know.

[JFPhoenix]

Maybe some weapons/vehicles take more skill then others.

[TheN00b]

Maybe some weapons/vehicles take more skill then others.

If you're referring to Thunderers, pull the other leg.

[Onizuka-GTO]

....or if it is a belated attempt to discourage the Devs from nerfing the Thunderer....

Shuush Honey, your going to ruin the NC's secret plan....

:lol: :rolleyes:

[AltaEgo]

Yes. Common pool certs instead of max's.


Look me in the eye and tell me that the max's arnt gimped.


You will not be able to laugh uncontrobally.



Also, I stand firm by the striker is fine, aside from the whole LOOK THERES A LEAF!! LETS LOCK ONTO THAT INSTEAD! thing.

LMAO! Hes right. Strikers LOVE Trees.

[Rbstr]

population unbalanced. No matter what you will say, having more members on one empire then the two other emipires combined is as unbalanced as a seasaw with a heavyweight on one side and a light weight on the other.

No matter how weak weapons, tactics they use, if you have sheer numbers you can win anything, as any American worth the stripy flag on the dog can tell you.. :rolleyes:

Yeah thats just a complete fabrication, do you even pay attention to the percentages?

And you know that a locked cont can only have so many people making numbers even?

[TheN00b]

Yeah thats just a complete fabrication, do you even pay attention to the percentages?

And you know that a locked cont can only have so many people making numbers even?

You play Markov. Onizuka-GTO and I play Emerald. Comprenden?

[Diddy Mao]

Well The Tr and Vs complained enough so we got hit with the "BAN" stick. Another patch where Tr are ignored, NC are n3rfed, Vs are buffed. And control of Auraxis still doesn't shift

[Keebler]

What I find really amusing is that, for some inexplicable reason, the NC have just stopped using Thunderers. On the battlefield, where I used to see around five of them owning everything in sight, I now see none, which allows our vehicles to actually have a chance. Rather this is because of a sense of honor which makes the NC not like to use overpowered vehicles, or if it is a belated attempt to discourage the Devs from nerfing the Thunderer, I do not know.
Maybe because your not a pilot? if I was a reaver coming up to a thundy: I think 3 easy kills, although what's hard in a reaver...

The thundy's aren't as good as you think. We should pull more thundy's though. good point.

[SandTrout]

Actualy, we should pull more vangaurds, but thats another issue. Thunders die to reavers unless the gunners are very good and the pilot isn't any good. They should not have made the thunderer a 1-hit wonder, I actualy agree with this, but this is off-set by the good sized COF, slow ROF, and low projectile speed. These things make it rare for the thunderer to get 1-shot kills.

The DC max sucks, but then again, all non AA maxes suck to various degrees IMO. That's another issue though.

[jondotg]

What everyone doesn't seem to realize is that the Vanu and NC say the exact same things about themselves. Everyone thinks that their empire sucks, when in reality they are all balanced. I would like to see the chaingin's accuracy taken down a bit though, but otherwise I am happy with the way the empires are set up.

[THrONeBeaST]

i love my repeater , i usally sit on a hill and snipe people with it , yea might do much damage , but the person is more jumpy and wont sit somewhere to long

[Sputty]

My problem with TR: MAXes are useless and the Prowler sucks. Everything else is fine IMO.

[TheN00b]

My problem with TR: MAXes are useless and the Prowler sucks. Everything else is fine IMO.

Amen. Below are my ideas for fixing teh suckitude among the problem children of the problem children:

Give the Prowler a large speed buff; it's cannons absolutely suck at range, and it's turtle-like speed and size make it extremely difficult to get close. Then, give the Vanguard a mild armor nerf; it can't be fast, with a tiny profile, pack in a huge gun, and still have more armor than anything else in the game.

For the Burster, just increase ROF, and it'll be fine. For the Dual Cycler shrink the COF hugely, and for the Pounder, raise the ROF to an insane amount, so that it can do something. But, to keep it in check, nerf the AI damage of it even more, so it's still bad against infantry.

[Diddy Mao]

Burst is pretty good, It's the only AA max that can catch a vehicle off guard. Sparrow's and Starfires Lock on, but given the lock on bug Burst should have advantage. It's great for shoot'n those pesky Reaver's that like Rocket spamm'n infantry and not even bother'n with the armor or Aircraft

[Keebler]

Amen. Below are my ideas for fixing teh suckitude among the problem children of the problem children:

Give the Prowler a large speed buff; it's cannons absolutely suck at range, and it's turtle-like speed and size make it extremely difficult to get close. Then, give the Vanguard a mild armor nerf; it can't be fast, with a tiny profile, pack in a huge gun, and still have more armor than anything else in the game.

For the Burster, just increase ROF, and it'll be fine. For the Dual Cycler shrink the COF hugely, and for the Pounder, raise the ROF to an insane amount, so that it can do something. But, to keep it in check, nerf the AI damage of it even more, so it's still bad against infantry.

While they are at it, they can make the scatter pistol's COF smaller, make the gauss clip bigger, and o yeah, make the JH have a smaller cone too.

My point: we all can't get what we want weapon wise.

I do agree that the prowler should get buffed a bit.

[Indecisive]

If you are opposed to buffing of tr maxes you must die. Now.


I had a few revolutions today.

1. Ditch the whole "2 guns" bullshit. It makes it harder to aim, and some shots miss completly (prowler anyone?)

2. Allow TR max's to continue shooting while locking down and unlocking. The reason people say the lockdown sucks is because you cant lockdown and unlock without having 2 deci's in your ass in between

3. And this would just be damn spiffy. It wont happen, but I just think its fun to think about. TR maxes should be able to walk on walls and the celing, and lock down on them. It would be pwnage to come into a dropship center to have a locked down DC upside down unloading into your ass.

[BUGGER]

Think of it this way. NC is for noobs, vanu is for intermediate, tr is for experts. NC weapons are very easy to use, vanu got its ways but is relitivly hard to be good, tr is utter skills and good management.

eh i dont care. TR is all around good. Those MAX's all have their disadvantages (but for the vanu, i think they got the best max's). You were once able to shoot with the sheild on the nc max's, now you aint. And always the tr has the ability to shoot faster when locked down, just their defenses are really really bad. Buff the tr armor when locked down, atleast the back part cause thats when the tr max is useless.

Otherwise, i dont complain. Be a hacker, use empire specific weapons, loot corpses, you'll be fine.

[Lartnev]

If you're gonna do anything to the pounder, reduce it's CoF when anchored first. Main problem with the Dual Cycler is its damage per round. Main problem with the burster is it takes skill to aim at altitude or fast moving targets.

I like the idea of anchoring to ceilings though :D

[Indecisive]

I like the idea of anchoring to ceilings though :D

XD


Have like a capacitor to walk on the walls, and then, if you run out while unlocked, you fall down.

[Onizuka-GTO]

XD


Have like a capacitor to walk on the walls, and then, if you run out while unlocked, you fall down.

heheh i can just imagine the filming prospect of this.

Director: "...and....Unlock!"

*10 Maxes drop from the ceiling onto a group of PJ wearing recruits*

Director: "Cut! great shot..lets do that again...."

:lol:

[Indecisive]

That would be hawt. Time to start a petition that no one will give a shit about!

Hahah. No, but I might ask it for ask the devs.

[TheN00b]

That would be so damn kewl... Can't you imagine a little 'Cong soldier walking into a base, when suddenly a Dual Cycler leaps onto his head and blows him away? That'd be sick.

[Lartnev]

I can just imagine some poor infil hacking a tower not noticing the laser sights crossing the wall from an anchored MAX attached to the stairs ceiling :D

Although you'd have to figure out a way so that the MAX users wouldn't pass out from the blood rushing to their heads hehe :)

[juggalokilla]

i agree with the capacitor on tr maxes idea, mine more like adrenaline that gives a highr rate of fire and better accuracy untill its drained, still allowing us to move. other empire maxes abilities allow for better defence when use, yet ours only makes us a easier target, just saying, others get a bonus, we get a gimp.

Other unbalance evidence is that my main character is a tr on emerald and i get decent kills with it, but I have an alt nc character on markov that has scattermax and jackhammer that gets almost twice the k\d ratio, odd, am I just incredibly better on markov days, uh, no. NC weapons are way easier to use, excet av, striker does own.

Let me not even bring up that thunderer. it is not hard to hit infantry with it. we would sit on a hill next to a base or tower and just unload it into doorways, easily scoring 5-10 kills before having to run and repair, its way to overpowered. Why should a deli variant cause more damage than a vanguard? What would you rather run into when driving in a prowler or magrider? a vanguard or thunderer? I'd rather see a van cause i might win that fight. Thanks for allowing me to rant on.


:trrocks: :vsrocks: :ncsucks:

[KIAsan]

NC weapons are way easier to use, excet av, striker does own.


This is an interesting argument that TR have been making for as long as I can remember. Not just NC weapons, but VS weapons also. Take AA maxes for instance: NC and VS require zero learning curve to master. Just point your reticule, get lock, follow object, fire all your rounds, get kills. TR AA max requires you to master lockdown, positioning, target leading, repositioning. Makes for a much steeper learning curve.

Antoher argument is that TR require more people to effectively man their weapon systems. Just look at the Raider in that example.

However, if you look at each class of weapon as it stands, compared against the each empires weapons in the same class, you will find that, in most cases, weapons are pretty much balanced against each other.

My point is that TR are confusing balance of weapons with the imbalance of steeper learning curves and crewing vehicles. Once TR master these points, they do pretty well. I believe the big frustration experienced by TR are from new players that have yet to obtain the necessary skill in a weapon to truely bring out that weapons strengths.

That said, yeah, there are some things that need to be tweaked. But for the most part, this game is pretty close to being balanced now. It would help though to get rid of Instagib weapons (with the exception of the main battle tanks, those should be instagib).

[Toneball]

OMG that just made more sense than the last 3 pages combined. :)

[Onizuka-GTO]

OMG that just made more sense than the last 3 pages combined. :)

I agree.

Therefore it validates this statement:

NC = Easy Mode

VS = Medium Mode

TR = Hard Mode

:nod: