TR Max Units

[BadAsh]

I've seen many threads about TR MAX Units with a whole variety of suggestions to help them be more formidable. Some of the suggestions were really good while others were a bit illogical or outrageous. After considering the ideas I've read and adding my own thoughts I've come up with what I think would be the best set of "tweaks" that would make TR MAXes usefull and effective.

If I were a DEV I�d make the following changes to TR MAX Units:

1. When anchored I�d give them a 200 degree arc of fire. This would allow them to fire at any target to the front, side, and slightly to the rear on each side.

2. I�d allow them to fire at the normal rate of fire while anchoring and un-anchoring. I see no reason the weapons system needs to shut down because foot spikes are being deployed. This is a HUGE vulnerability. If a VS MAX can fire when flying, surely a TR MAX can fire when standing still.

3. I�d give them an armor buff when anchored with the reasoning that they are �braced for the impact� and allow them to take reduced amounts of damage from attacks. Play testing would have to determine the reduction percentage, but to start I�m thinking that something like 33% less damage from a direct his and 50% less damage sustained from an indirect hit (splash damage) would be a good place to start. This could be explained away as a highly advanced automated defensive system that senses imminent impact from weapons fire and twitches the armor to help deflect the impact and blast thus providing additional defensive capability. This would help resist the onslaught of enemy fire that is suddenly highly accurate because you are immobilized.

4. I�d add an �advanced dual weapons targeting system� that would compensate for the trajectory offset from having two weapons. This means that both weapons would hit where the crosshair is pointed no matter the distance of the target. Both guns would be as accurate as a single weapon. This would allow the TR MAX to actually bring the firepower of both guns on a single target rather then spraying to either side of the target. Having dual weapons and a higher rate of fire is useless if you are inaccurate by design.

The above changes would change the way the TR MAX is perceived. In game enemies would switch from �Oh, good he anchored� to �Oh SHIT he�s anchoring!� IMHO this is how it should be.

[Black]

Good ideas Ash

[Cauldron Borne]

This is how it is now: (infantry perspective)

NC max: oh shit! it'll take three good shots w/ my deci to take that bitch out! and that's assuming he don't have PS!

VS max: Might as well die now, there aint NO way I'm cappin his ass outdoors...

TR max: ahh, FINALLY an easy target...


NOONE fears the TR max, because it is usless if undeployed and vulnerable if deployed. The only way a TR max matches any of it's counterparts in fire power is if it is anchored. Som my suggestion would be:

Make the max just as powerful unanchored as the other MAX's. Then make their RoF go up a significant ammount when anchored. This wouldn't be overpower'd because the MAX is immobile. both of the other empires' MAX special makes them stronger. Our's is a neccesity. Theirs is an option. That, ladies and gentlemen, sucks.

[JetRaiden]

btw, its 2 deci shots to take down a max. as an NC, I agree the anchoring ability needs a buff.

[Cauldron Borne]

An NC max w/ full shields activated takes three deci's to the face.

[Onizuka-GTO]

Yes. I was playing as a pounder, and i fell in love with it again, because i could use it like an Mobile Artillery unit (but infuriatingly, the damage to infantry from these grenades are evidently insignificate, compared to the damage a Comet Vanu AV Max can do to infantry as i was unloaked a full clip into agile at point blank range and he still didn't die, so he killed me with a Lasher. :mad: )

And certainly it was very very hard to kill anything, TR have a very good point about the maxes, which is why you don't see them much at all.
Seems like mostly infantry when your playing TR...

[Lartnev]

1. Agreed, would make defending a tower CC so much easier.

2. Not so sure. The NC can't fire with their shield up, the VS have appalling accuracy while jumping (which is an advantage to the starfire I have to admit). The TR MAX is supposed to be vulnerable when anchoring so unless you give it really poor accuracy whilst anchoring then I don't agree with it.

3. I think it'd be easier to explain if you just said that anchoring allows the MAX armour to harden, increasing it's damage absorption :)

4. I think this is a CoF problem rather than the fact you have two weapons, and it only really shows itself on the pounder, since you could fire a round from one arm and it'll go relatively straight, only for the next one to go off on a tangent and cross the path of the other shot. I don't think it has seperate CoFs like the Prowler weapons for example, so a general tightening of the CoF would be much appreciated.

In relation to the pounder vs Infantry, I think the damage it does is comparable to the Falcon (the Comet has aggrevated damage) but its accuracy anchored let alone unanchored makes hitting moving infantry difficult.

[Eldanesh]

I would like to see all the maxs rebalanced so that they are as good as the splattercannon.

Rather than reducing damage, TR maxs hsoul be doing as much unanchored with a capacetor-limited overcharge mode in addition to being able to lock down for even faster firing with no capacetor.

Oh, range-brackets for maxs makes infinitly more sense than just AI/AV. AV maxs should wtfpwn outside, but have splash that hurts them inside. AI should smash in point-blank and had a lot of infantry stopping power as well as AV damage.

[ORANGE]

the falcons CoF is no where near that of the pounder so comparing the two is like comparing the mcg to the bolt driver

[_-Gunslinger-_]

I came to the forums today to post a few ideas on how to make maxes slightly more formidable and buff the TR maxes. Here are my Ideas.

Remove the lockdown ability. After much thought I saw no way that they wouldnt be phoenix or lance bait. Instead impliment this:

1)ALL maxes (TR,VS,NC) are allowed to charge shields from amp station benifits. I see no reason why this isnt in the game. This can be sligtly overpowering so if thats the case lets say that when a max uses its special ability the shields go away amd return once the special ability is done.

2) TR maxes are all "belt" fed. Meaning that thier total ammo reserves are thier clip. The slight downside to not having to reload is that you also cant field as much ammo as the other teams. Because you dont get your initial clip in the gun.

3 All TR maxes get a baseline ROF increase of 25% with testing ofcourse. Furthermore the get some type of capacitor charge that when activated increases thier ROF by another 25%. The numbers are just examples testing would be needed. However the total ROF bonus should not equal or exceed the ROF of a deployed TR max.

With these implimentations a TR max would be able to just fling massive ammounts of lead, flack, or grenades at people and in a pinch flip on the super firemode to quickly finish off thier opponent.


Comments?

[BadAsh]

In response to your feedback I'd also make these additional adjustments...

5. NC and VS AV MAX Units would have a "lock on" ability against other MAX units (even indoors) and any ground vehicle. The TR AV MAX (the Pounder) would gain proximity detonating ammunition like the Burster, but only against other MAX units and ground vehicles. Obviously the TR MAX would not get the "lock on" ability as it does not fit with their flak style ammo. But, it should be VERY easy for them to hit or at lease spash damage their target.

This would make AV MAX Units "wtfpwn" other MAX Units and make them something more than a free kill against vehicles.

6. NC MAX Units would again gain the ability to fire when they have their shields up. My reasoning here is that this would help them become more effective. I see no reason that only 1 empire (The VS) should have elite MAX Units, while 1 empire (the NC) have "OK" MAX Units, and 1 empire (the TR) have crap MAX Units. It's time to even things up.

7. Oh and WTF is up with MAX instagib mines? A mine should never do more than a direct Decimator hit does against a MAX (400 damage). Instagib is just lame.

[BadAsh]

I came to the forums today to post a few ideas on how to make maxes slightly more formidable and buff the TR maxes. Here are my Ideas.

Remove the lockdown ability. After much thought I saw no way that they wouldnt be phoenix or lance bait. Instead impliment this:

1)ALL maxes (TR,VS,NC) are allowed to charge shields from amp station benifits. I see no reason why this isnt in the game. This can be sligtly overpowering so if thats the case lets say that when a max uses its special ability the shields go away amd return once the special ability is done.

2) TR maxes are all "belt" fed. Meaning that thier total ammo reserves are thier clip. The slight downside to not having to reload is that you also cant field as much ammo as the other teams. Because you dont get your initial clip in the gun.

3 All TR maxes get a baseline ROF increase of 25% with testing ofcourse. Furthermore the get some type of capacitor charge that when activated increases thier ROF by another 25%. The numbers are just examples testing would be needed. However the total ROF bonus should not equal or exceed the ROF of a deployed TR max.

With these implimentations a TR max would be able to just fling massive ammounts of lead, flack, or grenades at people and in a pinch flip on the super firemode to quickly finish off thier opponent.


Comments?

Nice ideas Gunslinger,

My only "problem" is that in the OF the DEVS long ago said they will not change any of the MAX Units special abilities... Sooo...

The VS will always fly...
The NC will always have shields...
The TR will always have lock down...

Since we are "stuck" with this base formula, the only suggestions that have any chance of being actually considered are those that factor in the above 3 "constants". :(

[Onizuka-GTO]

2) TR maxes are all "belt" fed. Meaning that thier total ammo reserves are thier clip. The slight downside to not having to reload is that you also cant field as much ammo as the other teams. Because you dont get your initial clip in the gun.


I really like this idea! This really does make sense, and it will fit into the TR philosophy, i mean their empire HA and MA have large magazines.
Coupled with high RoF you can imagine that a TR MAX can use up all it's ammunition in a very short space of time.

That would be its limiting factor, (including the horrible Anchoring) would make it much more bearable.

[Indecisive]

I like the ideas. That in my idea of max's walking on the walls would be pwn ^_^

[Cryptica]

Considering the above-mentioned idea of belt-feeding TR maxes, which I do like, indeed, I would wonder if there would be a way for someone to get more ammo for them. Example being, of course, the Engineer. TR Engi's would be able to reload a MAX whilst in the middle of combat using a system similar to the healing process, only the ammo would be transferred instead of healing. My first idea would be that the TR plants, and the Engi with his uber-supply of ammo would stay behind it and feed it more ammo when the MAX ran out. The process would take no more than a couple seconds (any longer and it's not worth it, the MAX will die before it can reload) and during this time the MAX wouldn't be able to fire.

2 more things, 1 question and 1 idea:

How big would the clip be? I would assume it would be somewhere around 800-1000 rounds? Using this number we could say that the ammo boxes come in 200-round chunks so that even an agile engi could carry at least a full reload.

My idea is also, so that the MAX is slighlty more defended than a sitting duck while being reloaded, would be that as soon as the engi starts reloading, a personal-shield type mechanism kicks in that would act as a deflector against incoming fire (I'm thinking something like 100 points of damage then it's gone.) This way enemies couldn't just wait until the MAX is out of ammo then storm it. Well, they could, but it wouldn't be a sure-bet.

[Onizuka-GTO]

maybe that's a little over the top? because i can imagine the NC's complaining that the TR have stolen their Maxes only special ability.

But if you could anchor a max behind a barricade with a CE healing and feeding the TR MAX ammo, it would be a mobile Pillbox mowing down incoming enemy infantry, i can see a TR max securing a hugh area where a enemy AMS might be located and hold them off until it is located.

[Indecisive]

Yeah, the defence wouldnt work in perspective of the other max's.

[Onizuka-GTO]

Also i think if you have anchor down, your CoF should be incredibly narrow.

I mean you have been stabalised, you have now compensated for recoil and in return for being an static target should be rewarded.

[Lartnev]

Well, the Dual Cycler's CoF is pretty narrow when anchored, it's just got a nasty bloom.

I don't like the idea of belt fed ammo, the reason is that I don't think its necessary. The DC has 200 rounds in a clip and to me that's plenty. But then you look at the pounder and the burster.... can you imagine a burster without the restraint of a 25 round clip? Scary and cool, but balanced? I don't think so.

I personally feel that the answer is a lot simpler than what most of these ideas suggest. The reason the ScatterCannon and the AA MAXs are successful is because the damage output rivals the equivalent infantry option, ie, the Scattercannon has very similar damage to the primary jackhammer mode. The Dual Cycler however is worse than the MCG in terms of firepower, even when anchored. I also think that with a smaller CoF, the pounder would be on par with the other AV MAXs in general ability, and I would like them to do decent MAX damage so they have more use.

However I would like to see TR MAXs having increased damage absorption when anchored. I do not agree that the NC MAXs should be able to fire through their shield. If you're going to allow engineers to give MAX armour, it should be an option open to all three empires.

the falcons CoF is no where near that of the pounder so comparing the two is like comparing the mcg to the bolt driver

They're both AV MAXs, hence the comparison. But why you bothered saying that is a mystery as that was the point I was making, the pounder has a lot worse accuracy than the Falcon (and the Comet).

[ORANGE]

there you go trying to use logic on an illocgical person

[Onizuka-GTO]

there you go trying to use logic on an illocgical person

when has Lartnev been illogical?

Please point it out for me, im not perticularly sharp today.
(I hate mondays)

[FatalLight]

VS max: Might as well die now, there aint NO way I'm cappin his ass outdoors...
:rofl: never seen a vs max on my TR alt char and not knowing what its like, i find this funny :lol:

[ORANGE]

believe me it's true if I see a vs max and I don't have a striker to nail him while he does his "Look at me I can fly!!!!!" routine I run away

as for oni stop trying to confuse me

[Lartnev]

:hug: Paintballboy :)

It is quite funny nailing flying VS MAXs with a striker :)

[FatalLight]

believe me it's true if I see a vs max and I don't have a striker to nail him while he does his "Look at me I can fly!!!!!" routine I run away

as for oni stop trying to confuse me
:rofl: I can fly routine :lol: u guys are funny :rofl:

[Onizuka-GTO]

as for oni stop trying to confuse me

im not trying to confuse you.
well not deliberately anyway....
:rolleyes: :lol:

[TheN00b]

It is quite funny nailing flying VS MAXs with a striker :)

Indeed it is. My best anti-Vanu Striker story came when I saw a Starfire autorunning across a field towards my base wall. As he got near to my, I un-holstered my Striker, locked-on, and got off two missiles. As soon as I locked on, he jumped towards the base wall, which he was going to make and make me lose my LOS. Unfortunately for him, my first Rocket critically injured him, and my second rocket came in from high altitude. As I lost LOS, it went dumb-fire, and by total chance, flew into him and killed him. I proceeded to receive five hate /tells about my 'ub3r hax0r Striker'. Good times :)

[Onizuka-GTO]

*sigh*

Those poor obsolete TR Maxes..... :tear:

[Lartnev]

Oi, we're not obsolete.... these anchors can punch through solid concrete... imagine what it could do to your face :p

As for the weapons... well they make great sex toys :lol:

[Onizuka-GTO]

...........

*cough*

:rolleyes:

[scarpas]

ok, i hope everyone knows that right now, a suppresor will kill infantry faster than a dc.

a person with a suppresor doesnt have to worry about decis.

a person with a suppresor can heal him/herself

a person with a suppressor can open a door.

a person with a suppressor has less armor, but can probably live longer than a max.

a person with a suppressor is better.

[Lartnev]

Depends on the range, close range DC wins, long range suppressor wins due to accuracy.