If i could redo bases with my will alone.

[Doppler]

If patching wernt an issue and i could redo bases to my whim here is what i'd do.

All generators will be moved to the sub basement, all CC and spawn rooms will be moved to the basement, prefferably adjoining.

Turrets wil be redone to have three modes. Flack, 100mm (equivalent to the prowler) style shell launcher, and the current standard machine gun. Automated they whould fire as they currently do. Turrets could be repaired from within the walls (see below)

The current shield module effect of the gate shielding whould be standard on all bases. In a small bunker near the gate, inside the perimiter whould be a small generator, either blowing up or hacking the console brings down the shield, hacking brings it down for 5 mins or rehack whichever comes first. Blowing brings it down till repaired/autorepaired but gives off an alert to all defenders in the SOI. Current base walls whould be hollowed out and have murder slits installed to allow defenders to fire outside of the base and into the courtyard. All exterior doors in the courtyard into the walls whould have IFF's on them. Defenders and hostiles wishing to get up on top of the walls use chute tunnels. Devices that must be hacked by hostiles and got in like vehicles then work like elevators getting you out on the upper level under the open sky.

The backdoor whould slope up into the wall enclosure instead of down, giving the defenders a decisive advantage isntead of forcing them to fight up hill. Also a blast retainign wall whould be placed in front of the back door on the inside so that troops may only come around the corner into the bad door stair well maxium two at a time (one around each corner)

The spawn room in addition to having standard terminals whould also have a special quick matrix pad allowing defenders to dematrix their avatar and jump to various points within the walls or directly to the lobby. THe only entries to the base from the courtyard whould remain as it is now on most bases, a single large blast door with a retainign wall in front of it. Other then the front door providing access tot he courtyard the base whould only have 2 doors at each level, 2 leading into the wall complex, two leading out onto the catwalks. These provide additional "strong points" for the defenders to hold.

Defenders within the base whould be able to use their command uplinks as normal, as the base comm network is amplifing and rebroadcasting their signals to the orbital stations, not deterring.

For anyone that whould say this whould make defenders too strong, I highly doubt it, plus i'd like to see the shoe put on the other foot for a change.

THoughts? Flames? Questions

[Meursault00]

More spawn tubes.
You have no idea I've tried to decon so I can get to another base, only to find that it's being blocked by some dude who decides to blank our right after respawning. Or maybe a respawn tube that kicks the player out if he/she is in it for more than a minute, cause that's about how long I'll wait before I kill the guy. Lives are at stake, if I can kill one or two people in one life, I will have served my empire...

More equipment terminals is a must.
It's so frustrating to spawn at a base under siege, only to meet a wall of friendlies as enemy MAXes come crashing in....

I have no beefs with moving the generator to the lowest levels. But then again, I'm not in total support of it either.

Gate shield on every base? I'm not all to comfortable with it, but I'm not outright against it.

Wouldn't this lead to some pretty boring bases with the same tactical advantages/disadvantages?

More Matrixing panels, sure! Why not? It's fricken impossible to find one when you need one.

That's all from me for now, I'll get back to you later with more questions and comments :)

[Doppler]

Think about it though, we had to learn midevil tech, (porcullis) from aliens? Come on how much sense does that make.

Additionaly i dont think you understand, you dematrix in the spawn room and can quickly zip to other parts of the base.

[Meursault00]

Oh, I see now, thanks for the clarification, now I feel like an idiot :)

[Sploogey]

looks cool would be nice though the CC next to the Spawn room is a bit...errr u noe

[Lartnev]

I'm gonna wait and see what they do with these base redesigns first. :)

[Doppler]

A bit what? It makes a certain amount of sense for in times of war troops to sleep next to the command structure.

Another thing iw ant to see is command centers be used in some way for commanding, remote cameras or what have you, something other then just another place defenders must defend.

[JetRaiden]

dude...flak AND a 100m shell on a turret? jesus...nothing would come within a 100 yards of that. air or ground.

[HawkEye]

wall turrets wtfown me all the time.

[Eldanesh]

Defending is already easy. Sure we could make a narrow 1000m corridor the only way to access the cc, but would that be fun?

It is a GAME there should be some possible ways to attack besides mindlessly zerging the front door until it falls. Defending is easy because a small group can hold off 2-3 times their numbers for long periods of time.

[JetRaiden]

Defending is already easy. Sure we could make a narrow 1000m corridor the only way to access the cc, but would that be fun?

It is a GAME there should be some possible ways to attack besides mindlessly zerging the front door until it falls. Defending is easy because a small group can hold off 2-3 times their numbers for long periods of time.

yea. on D-Day only a few hundred Germans held off thousands of allied troops for hours.

[Sploogey]

very true most famously at Omaha beach
wasnt that also where the most casualties were or is it only cause it was american its so famous

[Lartnev]

Yeah but that was due to some huge ass unpassable (for a long time) defences.

[_-Gunslinger-_]

Make a Gen to take down the spawn tubes and that would be possible to attack. In your scenario taking the CC would require total defeat of the enemy. While some would say that is good it would make this a total defense game. Remember if you make it more fun to defend than attack a fights gonna be hard to find and easy to win for a defender, Compared to now where its easy to find and hard to win. Id rather lose than to fight at all.

[SkunkPunk]

thats gay, your gay, your ideas gay, close this thread

[Dharkbayne]

thats gay, your gay, your ideas gay, close this thread

Awesome contribution.





















Asshole.

[WritheNC]

Defending a base is easy.

I've defended a base against a red alert with only 20 other people in the base for over 30 minutes. As long as there are enough people at the door, you will respawn faster than the people you kill(base respawn > AMS respawn).

Eventually, you will fall, but if nobody else comes to help within 30 minutes it might be a good time to go to another cont.

[Sploogey]

yah i fended off 2 tr red alerts on Searhus yesterday and retook the continent b4 the NC came in behind us when most of our forces had left

[Doppler]

Defending is already easy. Sure we could make a narrow 1000m corridor the only way to access the cc, but would that be fun?

It is a GAME there should be some possible ways to attack besides mindlessly zerging the front door until it falls. Defending is easy because a small group can hold off 2-3 times their numbers for long periods of time.

Are we even playing the same game? Serioesly if ignorance was mass that post whould have generated a gravity field.

As it stands right now in PS defending takes the same number of forces, if not more then the attacking forc has to hold the base. If the base is a bio lab or a tech plant you might as well not even bother trying as there are just too many ways for the offensive forces to come in, or in the case of the bio lab the enemy can easily get onto the roof, cover the roof exit with reavers and blast the gens, unless the defenders have serious aircover and total controll of the courttyard the gens getting blown is almost a foregone conclusion if the offense really wants the base.

I want some of you meatheads to study theory of armed combat a bit before you post things like this, defending is supposed to be much much easier then going offense, offence can dictate the time and the place of the attack, defenders can dictate the terrain. There is no reason unless the offense is well cordinated that base defenders shouldnt be able to hold out indefinitely against an equal sized force.

[Doppler]

thats gay, your gay, your ideas gay, close this thread

Skunk, i know you have more issues then a Macy's day parade, that does not mean i do. Maybe your mother didnt hold you enough, maybe your girlfriend laughed at your impotence, maybe your girlfriend AND your mother laughed at your impotence. I dunno. The point is, most homophobes are closet gays themselves, but just because you are a closet homosexual, does not mean I am. I seriously wish that in the future you'd seek conseling, rather then bring your own personal issues into a semi serious discussion by people that actualy play this game. I also wish you might grow up.

[Lartnev]

defenders can dictate the terrain

Defenders fail most often because they don't to do this. They sorta turtleshell into the base instead of trying to control the courtyad and surrounding areas, and then push out. Sorta like continually playing on the 5 yard line instead of running it back up the field (I think O_ )

However, until we find out exactly what they're doing to the bases this is academic.

[McCleod]

The point is, most homophobes are closet gays themselves, but just because you are a closet homosexual, does not mean I am. I seriously wish that in the future you'd seek conseling, rather then bring your own personal issues into a semi serious discussion by people that actualy play this game. I also wish you might grow up.

If they are 'closet' i.e. 'unknown' gays, your statement cannot be true.

Anyway, back to the main point. Do you want PS to be a static game of tedious sieges or a fast paced game of mobile combat. I vote for the latter.

[Sploogey]

Skunk, i know you have more issues then a Macy's day parade, that does not mean i do. Maybe your mother didnt hold you enough, maybe your girlfriend laughed at your impotence, maybe your girlfriend AND your mother laughed at your impotence. I dunno. The point is, most homophobes are closet gays themselves, but just because you are a closet homosexual, does not mean I am. I seriously wish that in the future you'd seek conseling, rather then bring your own personal issues into a semi serious discussion by people that actualy play this game. I also wish you might grow up.
Are we even playing the same game? Serioesly if ignorance was mass that post whould have generated a gravity field.
haha Doppler double pwnage

[Eldanesh]

Doppler, You make me wonder if you actually play the game, defense IS easy. I see 33% nc holding off 66% TR/VS at one base, only falling when they are completely swarmed, or it goes neutral, or the attackers drop the gens/hack.

I was defending hossin with some AC- 7 of us stopped, pushed back, and then tower-camped 25+ NC before we rehacked the tower.

All-day stalemates on continents get boring and who will want to attack a continent in the first place if they know they will get raped off within minutes of arriving?

realistic or not, its not good for gameplay, and why should everyone who disagrees with you be ignorant? I think having the scales any more tipped for defender would just suck. Battles get boring when all it is is spamming SA into a doorway for hours.
The way you prattle on about "realistic" defense its as if you expect 10 guys to hold off a red alert with ease.

[Doppler]

Ill break it down for you eldanesh.

Doppler, You make me wonder if you actually play the game, defense IS easy. I see 33% nc holding off 66% TR/VS at one base, only falling when they are completely swarmed, or it goes neutral, or the attackers drop the gens/hack.

If your blowing the gens/hacking, the defenders arnt really holding you back now are they? By holding you back i dont mean using their spawn advantage to run out of the spawn room, kill a couple guys then die, holding the zerg off by attrition, if the enemy has set up camp in the courtyard the defenders have already effectively lost as their no longer able to field troops from that base, its a matter of just getting to one of the three points of failure for defenders (Gens, CC, Spawns) any of which loosing it is most likely the death keel for the defenders.


I was defending hossin with some AC- 7 of us stopped, pushed back, and then tower-camped 25+ NC before we rehacked the tower.

Heres a thought, if your tower camping your hardly defending now are you? Thats called offense my friend, so you further prove my point that offense can just door camp a base or structure all day before finnaly getting aroudn to invade.


All-day stalemates on continents get boring and who will want to attack a continent in the first place if they know they will get raped off within minutes of arriving?

realistic or not, its not good for gameplay, and why should everyone who disagrees with you be ignorant? I think having the scales any more tipped for defender would just suck. Battles get boring when all it is is spamming SA into a doorway for hours.
The way you prattle on about "realistic" defense its as if you expect 10 guys to hold off a red alert with ease.

And all days musical bases are not? As it stands now if you dont have the most people on the cont, you might not even show up. Your bases will be zerged out repeatedly and theres nothing you can do because other then having a spawn in the base and sometimes some module/biolab benefits, once the enemy is in the door you have no home field advantages. YOu dont think that constant rollovers get boring, i tell ya what illl make a web game where you just randomly walk up to circles and change the color of them, thats what we have now, it is impossible to hold bases without having a 2 to 1 troop advantage, and if you got 2 to 1 troop advantage why are you defendeing.

I know its hard for you little zergiles to grasp, but maybe if this game did get more tactical and forced people to be a little more selective and work a little more cohesively victory whould be that much more to savor. Not "I and about 100 other guys ran down half our number and now we get to camp out in the soi to wait for i exp before doing it again."

[Doppler]

SHameless bumpage i want to hear back from eldanish (sp?)

[Duffman]

little over the edge on the turrets but i do agree with some sort of air defence.

i also dont like the spawn room being next to CC and the one door entrace thing. What we need is more choke points.

i love the transporting mtrix things they would rule.

[Eldanesh]

Ill break it down for you eldanesh.


If your blowing the gens/hacking, the defenders arnt really holding you back now are they? By holding you back i dont mean using their spawn advantage to run out of the spawn room, kill a couple guys then die, holding the zerg off by attrition, if the enemy has set up camp in the courtyard the defenders have already effectively lost as their no longer able to field troops from that base, its a matter of just getting to one of the three points of failure for defenders (Gens, CC, Spawns) any of which loosing it is most likely the death keel for the defenders.



Heres a thought, if your tower camping your hardly defending now are you? Thats called offense my friend, so you further prove my point that offense can just door camp a base or structure all day before finnaly getting aroudn to invade.



And all days musical bases are not? As it stands now if you dont have the most people on the cont, you might not even show up. Your bases will be zerged out repeatedly and theres nothing you can do because other then having a spawn in the base and sometimes some module/biolab benefits, once the enemy is in the door you have no home field advantages. YOu dont think that constant rollovers get boring, i tell ya what illl make a web game where you just randomly walk up to circles and change the color of them, thats what we have now, it is impossible to hold bases without having a 2 to 1 troop advantage, and if you got 2 to 1 troop advantage why are you defendeing.

I know its hard for you little zergiles to grasp, but maybe if this game did get more tactical and forced people to be a little more selective and work a little more cohesively victory whould be that much more to savor. Not "I and about 100 other guys ran down half our number and now we get to camp out in the soi to wait for i exp before doing it again."

When I think of people defending, I think of the empire with dominion vs the empire without. Beyond the simple base layouts, the odds are highly in the defenders favor. (Even defending one base the defense will last for hours until the attackers are pushed back or the defenders are starved out (running out of ntu))

In the example I gave, it was at chac on Hossin, the first base for NC and while they were pushing inside the base, 7-8 people were able to 1. get reavers and kill the AMS 2. Kill the CC camp 3. air-camp the path between the tower and the base 4. in a coordinated hotdrop, rehack the tower. What more do you want defense to do for you? That, in my eyes is how defense should work and demonstrates the effective advantages available to defenders. Defenders have: full lattice benefits, hard spawn points no matter what, Tech, interlink, DSC, and mods, large incentives (hp mod + 20hp + global benefits = win - I had almost 150 hp) , as well as easy access to vehicles. Attackers have only towers and have to hack out vehicles, they are also exposed and forced into choke points.

It is a game, and wether attacking or defending you should expect to fight if you want to hold onto your base. If you can't be bothered to defend the vulnerable spots in your base then don't complain about how the layout screwed you over. I don't like getting killed, so in massive zerg-fests I generally will sit in the gen room in a scatmax. I have seen 33% holding off 66% regularly on all empires. Failed invasions usually turn into that- I look at solsar and see one NC base with 33% pop, the rest TR, 2 hours later I look at it and it went neutal/ finally got hacked.

Do you want the entire game to be so horribly skewed to the defense that 1. its not any fun to attack (already is imo) 2. it takes overwhelming (I mean OVERWHELMING, like 9:1) numbers in order to win?

I enjoy defending - its almost all I do, you don't have ot be running around in rexo with SA firing off the walls in order to be "defending"
I mow people down with my liberator before camping their tower roof a lot of the time, I bind to one base back and bomb their ams's, if the enemy has made it into the base, its not the design of the base that is making you lose, design or not, you have already lost, face it.

(besides, even if they take the base, your entire defense force has 15 minutes to respawn, get vehicles, kill their ams and resecure. That also happens a lot- would you classify that as offense or defense?)

Doppler, I don't have anything against you, its just my honest opinion from experience and from more than a year of doing almost nothing but defending locked continents that defending is not weak, nor underpowered. The single greatest buff the defender ever received was spawning not taking NTU, that one change did more than any base layout could have. Long winding corridors and completely linear base design seem really boring to me. I love having a mini-maze and multiple paths to worry about. It seems that if you had your way it would just be spamming a doorway with plasma grenades until one side forced its way in.

Oh, and I do have to work, so I may not get to type a response right a way, and I prefer playing when I am not "working" to typing. ;)

[Duffman]

heh you think its easy because your NC... try TR. :)

[Eldanesh]

heh you think its easy because your NC... try TR. :)

http://www.battlerank.net/cgi-bin/viewer.cgi?character=719385&worldID=15

My TR's first ~1200 kills were over the course of 3 days of nothing but... defending.

[Doppler]

I dont buy the "try it as TR" bit, considering i'm NC and i have a vastly difrent opinion. Yes i will conclude that cont break ins can be fairly easy to defend if you can catch the forces before they get a toe hold, but as soon as they have a place to produce vehicles its sheerly a numbers game.

[Eldanesh]

Imo, numbers make a big difference beyond the first base, however even a 10-20% advantage can be stopped if they dont have tech, and often times a 50%-50% fight results in the attackers being stuffed back into their toehold base regardless of tech or not.

What it really comes down to is defenders reaction times, ie how soon cr5's act to recall a losing fight to defend and prempt a long, drawn out battle.

[BUGGER]

If i wer to change bases around, i would change it just so the defenses relate to the base. As if it was a Tech Plant, the turrets would fire harder than on a normal base. Dropshit center, maybe a few flak turrets. You see where i'm going. But then if its like that base that gives vehicles shields (heh i forgot) it would up the armor on the soldiers when they spawn from it.


But then i think everything is fine with the game, defense doesn't matter, you can hold off a base jsut by standing at a chokepoint. Its like standing on a hill and watching people come out of 1 ship, do you have to aim, NO! just shoot towards the ship, you'll hit something.

[ZjinPS]

Defense as it is it pretty much fine I think. A flak cannon addition would be nice, even if it was just a single battery and only on certain bases.

Though, I think the suicide hacker that continually bail from burning skeeters and rush into the CC to try a hack is a pain. Most of them never make it, but the sneakiest do pretty well. Most people hate to stand in the CC when a huge battle is raging so many times the CC is unguarded.

I hate spending 20 minutes placing mines and spits all over the place only to loose the base to a suicidal skeeter pilot with adv hack.

Also, people never park AMS in the courtyards during sieges any more. Whats up with that?

[Doppler]

THink that might be due to the proliferation of liberators and Orb strikes Zjinn