Damage

[Sputty]

WARNING!!: Don't flame or turn this into a flame thread or sniper based. Saying that what do you think of no region specific damage? I'm especailly interested in knowing wht Hamma, Afex, Marsman and other PSU staff think about it.

[funky]

so bad, this is an fps not an rpg like
(my opinion)

[Camping Carl]

I'll miss headshots. But I guess I'll get used to it.

[Omni]

I think once everyone gets in the game and starts playing they will come to like non-body specific dmg. If your in a fight with hundreds, maybe thousands, of people at a time you would want to live as long as you can. Also this is done to give the newbs who cant aim a chance from the people who can aim well.

Though it was allways fun to hear..
HEADSHOT!!!!

:D


:ncrocks:

[Navaron]

I've said it before, I'm not really a sniper, and I don't plan on being one in PS, but I'd like to see a head shot kill for the boltdriver alone. Otherwise that thing had better be damn powerful. I think it sucks over all imo, because if I sneak up on some one and blast them with shotty to the head, I want it to hurt more than if I blast him in the shin.

[�io]

blast them with shotty to the head, I want it to hurt more than if I blast him in the shin.

:stupid:

A FPS without headshots (sniper or otherwise) is just plain and simple a BAD thing. Planetside will still kick ass but the no headshots will be a pretty big minus in my book. UT,SoF,AvP,etc,etc,etc they all have headshots and are better for it, adds realism and skill elements. :)

[Civilian]

I agree 100% Dio.

There is no question I am still going to buy PS. But region specific damage is an important part of all my favorite FPS. I am more interested in the effects it will have on close combat situations. This is the only downside I have seen thus far, but I am most attracted by the MMO aspect of the game, and that's not gonna change.

[SpartonX]

i doubt it, but i wonder if it could be changed durring betta if it was a big complaint

[Tobias]

Oh it would be soooo kick ass if PS could have a damage model like Ghoul or something.

[Planeswalker]

well..... the quake series didnt have locational damage and they were good.... well quake2 sucked...but anyway, it really doesnt matter to me, i'll kill you either way :P

[mistled]

I agree with Nav and Dio and whoever else agrees with them. :)

I'm all for headshots. What good is sneaking up on someone if you can't take full advantage by shooting them in the back of the head?? I'm sorry, but if you're dumb enough to be snuck up behind by someone with a gun, you deserve to respawn. It's that simple.

That being said, I don't really care about region specific stuff other than the head. It doesn't matter to me that being shot in the leg and in the chest will hurt the same. The way I see it, I shouldn't have allowed myself to get shot, and if I was shot in the foot in real life, I would be on the ground in a second.

[Furio]

Regional specific damage is good. Buts its just not for the headshots I mean if you are unloading a clip into someones legs logically it shouldn't do as much as a bunch of torso shots. And realism makes games good.

[Navaron]

"...I would be on the ground in a second."

:rofl:

It's gonna make sniping alot easier, sniper can just aim for the whole torso, not just the head. It's all the same.

[SandTrout]

Originally posted by Planeswalker
well..... the quake series didnt have locational damage and they were good.... well quake2 sucked...but anyway, it really doesnt matter to me, i'll kill you either way :P

I hated Quake, and besides that, Quake is a FFA based game, you shoot anything that moves. In all of the more tactical games, Headshots are inclueded because it increased the required skill to use sniper weapons and other low ROF weapons.

Originally posted by Omni
Also this is done to give the newbs who cant aim a chance from the people who can aim well.

Last time I checked, newbies weren't supposed to be able to own at a team-based FPS. This isn't a role of the electronic dice, this is a skill based MMOG. I'm not the greatest shot, but on my good days I can wrack up some kills by useing less of a clip to the head to kill a guy. Also I can worry less about the snipers because they have to hit me in the head to 1-shot me.

[mistled]

Originally posted by {BOHICA}Navaron
"...I would be on the ground in a second."

:rofl: heehee... it's true. If I get shot in the foot in real life, I'll probably be whining like a little girl. There are entirely too many little bones that will get broken for me to pretend I'd be some big macho moron who acts like he can't feel the pain. :)

And I don't think it'll make sniping any easier since there aren't any one shot kills. If you're going to take away the one shot kill, you have to give up something. That something is that a shot to the foot counts as the same as a shot to the heart.

[MooKoo]

i guess they changed it because i heard that you could either be shot in the head or any thing else and the head would do more dmg then any where else

[mistled]

Originally posted by SandTrout
Last time I checked, newbies weren't supposed to be able to own at a team-based FPS. :stupid:

[mistled]

Originally posted by MooKoo
i guess they changed it because i heard that you could either be shot in the head or any thing else and the head would do more dmg then any where else Where'd you hear that?? (And please tell me it was from a Dev and not on the offcial forums)

[SandTrout]

It used to be in the offical FAQ mistled. I'm disapointed that they changed it.

[mistled]

Ok, now I'm completely confused. All I have ever heard from anyone who actually knew anything (read: SmokeJumper) was that there is currently only one hit location at all. Back in a Sept remark that he made, he added the qualifier "(so far)" to the end of his statement. Has anyone every heard him say any differently anywhere?? And if so, could you post a link to it??

[Navaron]

Apparently I'm loopy, but I thought I remembered some dev saying that the boltdriver would kill XX armor in X headshots. This seemed as if it was meant to be different than body shots. I don't remember where. I just thought that I saw it somewhere.

[Sputty]

I think Hamma said that a LONG time ago and he later said he was wrong by mentioning headshots. I'm pretty sure that's what happened

[mistled]

I remember a list of how many shots it would take for each armor (they're even guessing on the official forum about this number for the maxes), but I was thinking it was just shots in general. And yeah, I guess there's the off chance that Sputty is correct. :D

[Kyonye]

we must have region specific damage because we all know that getting hit in the head with a bullet will usually do more damage then getting hit in the stomach or leg.

[Derv]

One argument that I just thought of for the non-region specific damage has to do with the armor.

I guess if you pretend that the armor is uber then its just a matter of the bullets getting through the armor that kills the person, and once you've fired enough shots to get through the perosn's armor they die.

I don't know if this is what the PS people were thinking or not. Maybe they just don't feel like spending time making region specific damage.

Personally I like region specific damage, it makes aiming worthwhile and just makes more sense overall.

[mistled]

I like the armor argument for why a shot to the hand hurts the same as one to the chest. The hand has less armor, so the person is hurt more, but the hand isn't as vital an area as a chest shot. I still want head specific damage though. Getting shoot through that little clear screen on your helmet should hurt more than getting shot in the chest because the armor over the face is weaker and it is just as vital an area as the chest.

[TheGreatCarbini]

Personaly, I think that having it the way it is, without headshots armshots, ect is good for PS. You have to look at what kind of game your playing, this isn't a squad based shooter here where u come back the next round, and its not hardcore deathmatch where u just hit a button and your back fighting. When you die it matters. Take the guns of planetside for a monet, things like chianguns and assault rifles and shotguns, lots of wepaons u can use effectivly even if you don't have the best aim. Basicaly what I'm saying is that if your making a game like this, you want your players to have as much time in battle as possible, headshots would just make it OP your dead go back to your spawn, then theres a long run back perhaps to the battle.

Realism is fun, and region damage does add realism, but this is a game, you have to think of how the game plays out first so that it can be enjoyable.

I don;t say this because I'm a n00b who can't aim, im alright and have played all the FPSs out there you can name probably, but I just hate it when realism gets in the way of the core of a game.

It's like another post someone posted on the official forums, you don't put bushes and trees in a baseball field to add "realism":)

I hope you all get what im trying to say, and I totaly agree with the desicion for non-region specific damage.

[�io]

And i'm sure you aren't the only one, it's a matter of personal preference. I just wish they had 2 regions, body and head, or at least back and front so a sneak attack from the back is actually worth something.

[TheGreatCarbini]

Well think of a chaingun spraying at a target, theres a dang good chance your gonna hit the head, wheather on accident or on purpose. and any decent skilled skinper can take a headshot to a target in an open field, especialy somehting like a slow max armor or a enginer fixing something. a 2 hit kill to a MAX and it cant do much about it? hehe dont think the MAX would be very happy.

And yes I know you don't want your enemy to be happy, you know what i mean.

[Zoolooman]

I think they should have a leg region, torso region, and head region.

I think head region shouldn't exist for MAXes. Just torso and legs.

[mistled]

Originally posted by TheGreatCarbini
Well think of a chaingun spraying at a target, theres a dang good chance your gonna hit the head, wheather on accident or on purpose. and any decent skilled skinper can take a headshot to a target in an open field, especialy somehting like a slow max armor or a enginer fixing something. a 2 hit kill to a MAX and it cant do much about it? hehe dont think the MAX would be very happy.

And yes I know you don't want your enemy to be happy, you know what i mean. No one's talking about 2 shots to kill a max. Hell, after all the hype about the stupid maxes, I'm not sure I'm going to shoot one with anything less than a tank.

But the engineer shouldn't be stupid enough to be fixing something out in the open. What does he expect?? You go sit in the open in any game (or real life battle if you believe in reincarnation) and see what happens to you.

[TheGreatCarbini]

Well thats what im trying to say hehe, this isn't real life.:) And have you seen most of the screenshots? most of the land is open except for the jungly areas. It's a hard point im trying to argue here in text, region specific damage just wouldnt work in this game, people would die to fast. Fast death in a large (in this case VERY large) game just isnt a good idea... Lets play the game a bit then im sure we'll all get a new perspective of opinions hehe.

[MrVulcan]

yep, though I LOVE region specific damage, it only works in games were you have smaller groups of people on the battlefield. With the numbers we are talking about, rand shots would hit heads of people you didnt even mean to hit. There will be so much going on that if there was a faster way to die, i could see entire armies getting rebirthed every few secs... I jsut dont think that region specific damage would work for this scope of game. I have to go with TheGreatCarbini all the way with this one =) :cheers:

Besides, whit this much going on, im sure everyone will die fast enough, no need makeing it any faster lol ;)

[SandTrout]

Head and body would be fine, but not for MAX. They are walking mini-tanks after all. I just want my head. :(

[Ghostling]

yah i'm gonna have to agree with carbini on this one rehional dmg just wouldn't be right for this game.

[Ghostling]

er...thats regional dmg.

*note to self spell check work before posting

[WhiteSun]

Giving people a reason to work harder at aiming is a Good Thing, IMO. Durnk now, signing odd.

[Ludio]

Just because you have regional damage doesn't mean that you have to have people die faster. If you balance it correctly then it people will live the same amount of time on average, but there would be more skill involved in the shooting.

For your example TheGreatCarbini you said that people would get headshots by accident with guns such as the chain gun, which is true, but if it was balanced then those shots wouldn't matter as much because there could be reduced damage on the rest of the person so that they would die at the same speed.

And if you think it is annoying being killed by a headshot, imagine getting killed by a toe shot. The balancing that head/limb shots would need in order to be implemented would mean that if you got hit in the arm/leg it wouldn't matter so much, and if you got hit in the head it would hurt more. By the logic of the open field being a haven for snipers, what about partial cover? In the current system even if only a knee is sticking out around a corner you will still die just as quickly as if you stuck you head out, it will be harder to hit, but do the same amount of damage. A regional damage system can prevent death just as much as it can cause it.

The ultimate reason for a regional damage system is the skill aspect. The devs have constantly been telling us that this is a skill based MMOG, without the regional damage it will still be based on skill, but not as much.

Nobody wants counterstrike with people getting deadly headshots left and right, just more focus on the skill of the player.

[HopperWolf]

I think the most important part of regional damage is when it comes to snipering. I mean think about it. There's a sniper or three on the rediges surrounding a valley waiting for a convoy (hypothetical) They want to clear some support for said convoy so that their own force will have less opposition when they pour over the ridges. Now, once a sniper's position is known they are rather vulnerable, and so will want to move into cover after shooting.

A major part of the SKILL involved in snipering is getting a head shot and making a clean kill. Who wants to spent 10 second reloading if you know you are going to have to shoot one or more times, by which time your target has dived for cover when they should be dead, or has gotten a fix on you and peppering your position with bullets, forcing you to hide.

I think there should be head shots for the sniper rifle at least. Not for the MAX's, because as has been said, they're tanks, and rightly so, but the rifle is powerful and should be able to puch through a normal helmet on infantry.

It could be argued that the effect would be the same if the rifel kills in one shot anywhere on the body, but really, that is going to seriously detract from the skill needed for a good sniper AND will be a little too unfair for the target who may get shot in the foot and still end up dead.

I think it's important that snipering should retain regional shot BUT i agree that in general combat the no regional shots are a good thing, because in any fps you play these days the death count is extremely high, laregly due to some people having better aim. And your death count is likely to be high too (though not AS high) but in a game like PS you don't want to see those kinds of death counts because it would just be a frag fest, which I can get back at MOH. the point of games like those is that the respawning acts like an army is there.... you die someone (you again) takes your place. We already have the armies here. And the smaller conflicts are just that, smaller conflicts, battles between squads. People need a better chance of living and relying more on skill in this game. Just my opinion of course :)

[Ratchet]

I think that no region specific damage is a bad idea.

But then again, i was all for 2-3 shot kills, as im more of a realistic shooter fan, than a blasty shooter fan.

I like the idea, (or should i say fear?) that you might get "accidently" head shooted (is that even a word?) as it increases the tactical value of supressive fire.

The TR would own at supressive fire tho, and this may have unfairly unbalanced the game.

[LesserShade]

I think that it is tough for any of us to be able to say what is going to be unbalancing gameplay at this point, except for maybe hamma, i don't think any of us have any idea of what kind of balance the game really has at this stage.


Anyway, I wouldn't mind seeing region specific damage be dependant on weapons. Being able to headshot with sniper rifles would be good. I really couldnt care less for the rest of the guns. Headshotting in general would be cool, but i'd like to see the damage model not be exaggerated. For instance, with the SMG in mohaa you had to aim for the face, and any general body hits you landed may as well been complete misses.

[LesserShade]

I think I agree with carbini though. How long does it take for you to die in PS? I'd hope that you can take more punishment in this game than you can in most headshot happy fps. I mean.. you are in armor

[Hamma]

Not another one of these threads :ugh:

[Ratchet]

:p

[Ludio]

Remember, as long as you aren't killed you can always be healed by medkits, regeneration implant, second wind implant (this is especially good when you are close to dying) and players with the medical cert. Even if you do die, people with the advanced medical cert can res you. This is not a game where it is easy to die. They make it hard to die with all of these certs/implants/equipment. As I said earlier head shots don't have to be unbalanced. If the limb shot damage is adjusted downwards by a small amount and the headshots are adjusted upwards by a small amount then it will balance out.

Bolt drivers might have special damage rates, but the devs are trying to get rid of one shot kills. I think that if they only had it on headshots though then it might not be so bad because you would have to be pretty skilled to get one shot kills, and also make it so that reinforced takes 2 shots and MAX's don't have hit zones.

[MrVulcan]

Guys, in the end, it is not there, and if they put it in, it would mean having to restructure the way every weapon works.

Some like it better the way it is, others dont, oh well, it is the way it is =P

[Arshune]

Has anyone here ever played a very little known game called magestorm? That game was a simple FPS that had character advancement and no hitboxes, and it was some of the most fun I've ever had playing video games online. The way a fight in that game went, it was like equal parts dodging and shooting. I hope man-to-man combat in PS plays like that, if it does I think we're all in for a treat.

I agree with you guys that a sneak attack should do better damage though, especially with a knife. If a knife doesn't get someone in 1 or 2 hits then no one will use it at all, and even if it does people will probably only use it to show off their shiny new infiltrator suit.

[Sputty]

Or have a laugh. In BF1942 killing with the knife is funny. Normally if you get the jump on them they're running around to frantically to shoot back.

[Arshune]

I love knifing would-be snipers in BF1942, you can walk right up in front of them and they can't do a thing about it! Heh...but BF1942's knife actually does kill in 2 hits even on someone at full health, if the PS knife doesn't at least 1-2 hit kill someone with melee booster enabled, I'll be VERY disappointed.

[Sputty]

It probably will. Then why not jsut jump on them nd hope they die if you can't do it in 1-2..maybe 3