PSU - Sanctuary of the NC?

[Buck]

http://boards.station.sony.com/ubb/planetside/Forum2/HTML/002444.html

I rarely venture over to the official forums because everything they are discussing now, has already been covered here over the past few months/decades. I went over today and found the NC under attack.

There are very few NC supporters on the official forums, though the above thread gives some good pro-NC coverage. Nominating PSU and similar ilk to be the domain of the NC. Older, serious gamers seem to be gravitating to the NC. This is good news. I would rather have 10 serious gamers as opposed to 100 kids rocketing off in random directions with no particular cause other than to click, click, click away at anything that moves, or doesnt move for that matter.

Ive been looking for some players who find fun in accomplished teamwork. BF1942 almost got me there... almost. That game could be one of the coolest to date if it wasnt for the human factor.

Anyway, the majority of NC support lives here on PSU! I rarely post but I read just about every day. The guys on the PSU forums are the ones I want to team up with on the NC side. Not because of weaponry, skins, or vehicles, but because they seem to be the most dedicated group that is willing to work together.
Brotherhood, is always cool.

[Tobias]

:ncsucks:

[Zoolooman]

New Conglomerate kicks ass.

[Hamma]

There are indeed quite a few NC on here ;)

I think we are fairly even tho.

[MrVulcan]

:ncrocks:

but hay, when 1 of us elite NC soldiers can take out 50-60 avg TR, or vanu soldiers, just how much support do we need?? =P

Plus, our organization as a whole is by far much better, so i see the NC being outnumbered, but being very coordinated, and on the avg, of better skill players.

:ncrocks: :trsucks: :vssucks:

:sniper:

[LesserShade]

^ah little padawan, we shall see in due time >:]

[Zoolooman]

When you try and mow me down, and I'm using a shield (woohoo MAX ability) you'll think twice about the TR's abilities to beat the defenses and shotties of the NC.

[Buck]

I wish only the NC, and NC commanders would read these ancient texts. I promise its worth the time researching.

http://classics.mit.edu/Tzu/artwar.html

Sun Tzu's the ancient art of war has been around since Jesus was a baby. Used in business, war, and politics. The foundation of all strategies.

[Saint]

NC fo lyfe

NC - Shotguns require skill
TR - Spray and Pray
VS - Gay purple beams

[Saint]

There is such thing as spraying with skill, but the chances of people knowing how to do that with anything but the supressor is unlikley, possibly the cycler too.

[ABRAXAAS]

:ncrocks: :clap:

[Arshune]

I wonder why everyone always assosciates purple with homosexuality...the ACTUAL color of the biggest gay pride organizations is pink. I always thought purple was like a manly version of red.

[MrVulcan]

Originally posted by Buck
I wish only the NC, and NC commanders would read these ancient texts. I promise its worth the time researching.

http://classics.mit.edu/Tzu/artwar.html

Sun Tzu's the ancient art of war has been around since Jesus was a baby. Used in business, war, and politics. The foundation of all strategies.


Bah!

Sun Tzu's ideas are no longer valid. WWI proved that, WW2 Even more.

Now is the time to base our ideals upon the best general of all time. Patton!
(the only site i can think of with his quotes right this second is:)
http://www.generalpatton.com/
But I have read some of the books on his strategies, and studied his battle plans through out the war. His ideals about war truly are the best ideals on war.

"Wars might be fought with weapons, but they are won by men. It is the spirit of the men who leads that gains the victory."

�Fixed fortifications are monuments to man's stupidity.�

�Good tactics can save even the worst strategy. Bad tactics will destroy even the best strategy.�

I base almost all of my strategies upon:

"A good plan, violently executed now, is better than a perfect plan next week."

and:

"Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tire, more hungry. Keep punching."

it works =)

[Buck]

Mr Vulcan,

Sun Tzu is still being taught at The Citidel and West Point. I should know. General Patton studied Sun Tzu, as do many business leaders the world over. His talk about chariots, and ox carts is not to be taken literally. It is the PHILOSOPHY of war which is studied, and still the foundation of all modern warfare. This, my friend, is an absolute fact. One of the things Sun Tzu teaches is that you should know what you're talking about before you decide to pick a fight. It is also wise to know who Patton studied under and the methodolgies that guided him.

FOR EXAMPLE
http://www.pressipice.com/patton.htm

In war, then, let your great object be victory, not lengthy campaigns.

-- Sun Tzu, The Art of War


There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change; it is, �To use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wounds, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time.�

-- General George S. Patton, Jr.

The above quotes mean exactly the same thing.
Or maybe you would like to read the United States Marine corps Basic officer training manual, lesson ONE. In which Sun Tzu and General Patton are both mentioned together and seperately.
http://www.leatherneck.marines.usna.edu/images/Pubs/b0326.pdf

This above link, used currently by the U.S.M.C., Combat Orders instruction at TBS is a detailed and rigorous package that strives to develop and evaluate a student's ability to arrive at a tactical decision, communicate that decision and execute his plans in a time competitive environment. This course teaches the philosophy of Sun Tzu as well.

Think before you speak.
You must be Vanu, forgetting the past.
Should you require more extra-curricular reading about these two men I would be glad to supply it to you.

Basically Patton constantly quoted Sun Tzu in a less eloquent, more modern, basic, way of speaking. Maybe this is why you relate to Patton as opposed to Sun Tzu, when, in military terms, they followed the same doctrine.

You have been flamed. Feel the burn.

"History is a lie that no one contests."

[�io]

Originally posted by Buck
Older, serious gamers seem to be gravitating to the NC. This is good news.

Originally posted by Saint
NC fo lyfe

NC - Shotguns require skill
TR - Spray and Pray
VS - Gay purple beams

Yep, mature serious gamers...

:D


Honestly does anybody really think their empire will have better or more mature players than an other? Every empire will have every type of cool and lame player, it's just a question of how many of them will there be. :)

But i do think TR will suck, except the CDL part of it. ;):p

[Buck]

Originally posted by Dio
Yep, mature serious gamers...

:D


Honestly does anybody really think their empire will have better or more mature players than an other? Every empire will have every type of cool and lame player, it's just a question of how many of them will there be. :)

But i do think TR will suck, except the CDL part of it. ;):p

I agree with you 100%

[Camping Carl]

Honestly does anybody really think their empire will have better or more mature players than an other? Every empire will have every type of cool and lame player, it's just a question of how many of them will there be.

That's true for NC and TR, but vanu? I don't think so.

They attract more 14-year-old wannabe snipers than anybody else!

[MrVulcan]

Buck:

AHHH THE PAIN, THE PAIN!!!!! =P

Oh I beg to differ; Sun Tzu had a very different approach to assaults than Patton. You TR troops must learn how to see the subtle but important differences between tactics. It helps. =P

Though I will admit that Patton studied Sun Tzu, he also studied (and thought he was) just about every other major general in our history and took the best of everything he found. He even used 1 of the German�s tank formations in a battle if im not mistaken.... (can t remember where/when for sure, sorry, been too long since I studied Patton�s battles)

Sun Tzu had very similar ideas about capturing the enemy and using them to work for you though. As well as getting the job done quickly, and not to linger in your assaults in general.

But I find that the major difference in their styles is how they did individual battles, and assaults on cities/fortified positions. Patton would not shy away from fortified positions, and yet Sun Tzu does. Now this does make some sense for Sun Tzu, and Patton had tanks, and artillery/air strikes, but my point is still valid. You must not ignore the fortresses, you must crush them. Also, the way they would deploy their troops in general was different. Not completely again, but different. (wont get into details tonight, ill see if I can find some specifics in the morning)

Their the basic PHILOSOPHY however was very in general almost identical. I am not disputing that, I am only disputing the details.

BTW: I truly enjoyed reading those links you gave, and this piece in particular:

�....we use what we term �mission tactics;� orders are not written out in the minute detail, a mission is merely
given to the commander. How it shall be carried out is his problem. This is done because the commander on the
ground is the only one who can correctly judge existing conditions and take proper action if a chance occurs in the
situation. There is also a strong psychological reason for these �mission tactics.� The commander who can make
his own decisions within the limits of his mission, feels responsible for what he does. Consequently, he will
accomplish more because he will act in accordance with his own psychological individuality. Give the same
independence to your platoon and squad leaders.
�
It is of the same ideals that I completely agree to, and so did both Sun Tzu and Patton.

My main point however (I AM NOT SAYING that either avoided battle, quite the contrary), is that Patton loved direct confrontation more than Sun Tzu. And In general, when it came to going after targets of opportunity, and waiting for his own troops, etc, Patton would take the initiative more often. (yes that can be argued both ways, but in general)

(If I had more time, I would look up some sweet references for my point too, but I don�t, sorry. Your references are very nice though! I thoroughly enjoyed reading them. You wouldn�t happen to have nay more military docs would you?)

In the end, yes Sun Tzu does share many of the philosophical traits and trends towards war that Patton does, im not arguing that, but Patton takes his aggressiveness up a notch to two.

You have been iced. Feel the chill. =P

-MrVulcan
:ncrocks: :trsucks: :vssucks: :ncrocks:

P.S.
I think that we both agree on the same basic style (Attack Now, and Attack Again 5 min ago�.. etc) so all is cool =) Just debating the differences in the detail.

[Buck]

Mr. Vulcan, Sir.

I retract my flame. (minus one thing Im NC like yourself not TR)
A quality post deserves proper credit, and I must say I enjoyed your retort and its substance. I will enjoy meeting you in-game to discuss tactics and whatnot. I do have many military docs on hand to share with you, though Im getting ready to tune into the shoutcast. I'll post them in short time.

Discussing tactics is one of my favorite things, I look forward to working with you after reading your latest post. Well thought out and executed.

here are a couple links as a peace offering, how they relate to the game Im not sure, they're off the top of my head.

http://www.adtdl.army.mil/atdls.htm
This link is to the US Army Training and Doctrine digital library

http://carlisle-www.army.mil/usawc/Parameters/98autumn/henry.htm
this link is to a subsection of the Army War College, which presents some counter ideas to Sun Tzu and highlights several stand-out military theorists. Mainly focusing on Military theory and Information warfare. This site, with enough digging, can produce just about anything you want.