The Current State of Command

[Kasion]

There seem to be a few posts on CR5s and the common opinion of them. They tend to be empire and server specific, but I would like to have an educated discussion on the current state, and some possible ways to improve the situation. Below is a fairly lengthy post, and based on my experiences the last two months.

I have recently returned to Planetside, and in the past couple of months I have noticed a few points of interest concerning the Vanu CR5s. They mainly deal with bleeding dry a continent if we do not outnumber the other empires, and the determination of the order of continent target priorities.

Almost every single time that the VS seem to start losing ground on a continent or another empire begins to get equal numbers as us, there comes a global message from a CR5 telling everyone to leave the continent and start filling up another one or resecure a currently threatened captured continent. The big problem that I have with this is that the call goes out when we are starting to dig in and make a stand or our offensive starts to slow some, and then people start to leave and we lose ground, if not the entire continent. If the CR5s would request X number of squads or platoons, that would be better vice the all call and give up on the current on-going fights.

An example: We start to make a push on a continent. We are making some progress, but then start to stagnate. About this time, a CR5 makes a call to make another continent our primary target, so that we will not be down to only owning one. There is some banter back and forth on the global channel between the CR5s stating that we should stay and fight from one side, and leave to take more territory on another continent from the other. End result is the first continent is bled dry of people, and we start to lose the bases we controlled and not able to make an offensive due to the people being funneled off to a new target. The new target lasts about 15 minutes, and we began to face some fierce fighting. Sure enough, a CR5 comes over global telling everyone to leave this new target for another one. They want us to move to a continent that does not have nearly the resistance as the current �new primary� target. The overall outcome was losing all of our bases on two continents vice staying and fighting for at least one of them.

Overall, I think that the CR5s need to realize that battles have their ebbs and flows. Do not have a knee jerk reaction to give up just because things look bad right now, but have contingency plans ready for any circumstance that will improve a situation. Also, do not bleed a continent dry of people with an all call, but ask for squads and platoons to support another battle or resecure a continent.

People are starting to lose faith in the CR5s, and more and more commands/requests are going unheeded because of the current situation in the leadership. If any changes are expected, the CR5s need to take the first step and work out a new system in commanding the troops. Just telling people it is their fault because they did not listen to the multiple calls of multiple �primary� targets, a continent was lost will not fix anything. If people are not leaving a continent, stay and command. Do the best you can with the people you have, and listen to them. When there is a massive amount of people that stay in a fight when they are told to report somewhere else, maybe they believe they can win if a good leader stays behind and organizes them. Maybe it is best for the empire to stay in a fight if the remaining force thinks that way.

Commanding is not an art of telling people to act and expect them to do so. It is leading the people that follow you and doing the best you can with them. A leader with nobody to lead is just an individual that is alone in a fight.

[Baneblade]

I'll be brutally honest about it, but CR5s need a nerf. Cut out Global for one, increase the CEP needed to get all CR (even if it turns some current CR5s back into CR3s), require that CR5s be a certain rank or higher in an outfit to use Contalls or even Command chat. But also limit outfits to a certain ratio of 'active' CR5s, say 1 CR5 to maybe 20 members.

I dunno, but it probably wont keep asshats from the backpack, but it might help shortterm.

[Cauldron Borne]

Here is my Opinion into getting rid of the asshat dumbass CR5's:

Get rid of Global
Get rid of CR5 Orbital Strike
Move all presant CR5's back to CR4, and conciderably beef up the CEP needed for CR5


Now, what I believe these changes will do:
By getting rid of Global you keep the lone CR5 from making an asshat mistake that will negatively affect the battle.
By getting rid of CR5 OS you get rid of the reason a VAST majority of CR5's GOT CR5. The CR4 Orbital Strike is just as powerful as the cr5 OS, just a small radius. The only thing OS's serve for is a personal Kills Spam weapon, anyway.
By moving all the exhisting CR5's back down to CR4 and beefing up the CEP req, all the bad cr5s will hopefully be less inclined towards getting cr5 again. The better leaders, and the people who GENUINELY want to lead, will get cr5 back fairly quikely BECAUSE they are good leaders. We won't be leaderless, we'll still have our Outfit Leaders, who, for the most part, co-ordinate with each other anyway.

As for me? I usually 'accidentally' let my trigger slip when a notoriously bad cr5 'accidentally' slips into my sights.

[KIAsan]

Actually, they could fix this pretty easily. Create command certs with each ability set at a cost. Make sure that cr5s can't own everything, make them choose. Give them command certs at each cr level (the devs would have to figure this out so it's not out of control).

For example (5 certs max):
5 - Orbital strike
5 - Global/Continental Chat

Or you could even do it so you have prerequisites (like small orbital 3, large orbital 2). The devs could adjust this and charge for other abilities if they like (like emp or reveal). The point is to put in a system that requires choice. I believe this would seperate out those who are in it for the orbital strike, and those who really desire lead.

You would also probably need to set a prohibative recert time for command certs (like once every month). That way, if some cr5 just logs in to orbital, then they can't just switch back at will to global chat.

[JetRaiden]

you guys are a buncha whiners. I'd be happy if they just have CSRs monitor them better. so what for the occassional [Global]LOL GO 2 CYSSOR THERS COOKIES. globals, and CR5s in general rarely affect my gaming experience in planetside, and since you guys have shown them that you can be so easily defeated by their meaningless antics, they continue to do it because they know it annoys you. See too many annoying globals? /ignore.

[Baneblade]

I suppose you could call me a whiner, just because I have a solution to a problem.

[JetRaiden]

I suppose you could call me a whiner, just because I have a solution to a problem.

nerfing CR5s willl just halt the globals for like 2 months tops, then itll be back to the way it is now.

if you have a problem with your local CR5s, /ignore them. they arent your leaders. dont make this look like Lt. Dike from Band of Brothers.

[EarlyDawn]

Actually, they could fix this pretty easily. Create command certs with each ability set at a cost. Make sure that cr5s can't own everything, make them choose. Give them command certs at each cr level (the devs would have to figure this out so it's not out of control).

For example (5 certs max):
5 - Orbital strike
5 - Global/Continental Chat

Or you could even do it so you have prerequisites (like small orbital 3, large orbital 2). The devs could adjust this and charge for other abilities if they like (like emp or reveal). The point is to put in a system that requires choice. I believe this would seperate out those who are in it for the orbital strike, and those who really desire lead.

You would also probably need to set a prohibative recert time for command certs (like once every month). That way, if some cr5 just logs in to orbital, then they can't just switch back at will to global chat.I like that concept. Kinda makes commanders decide wether they want to be upper level tacticians (Global, Enemy Scan) or more of a "fire support LT" (OS, EMP)

[Meursault00]

I hate to say it. But we're screwed.

We have too many bratty CR5s. Too many stubborn CR5s. Simply, we have too many damn humans up there. Replace them all with AI robots that will react to battle conditions. If a battle lasts to long, if we lose to much ground, yada yada yada.

Okay, that wasn't funny, how about this.

We take away OS and the backpack from the CR5s and give them tot he CR4s. Kick all the CR5s back to CR4s, all the 4s to 3s, all the 3s to 2s, and all the 2s to 1s. And leave the CR1s as CR1s. Still following me? Good. Okay, so after that's done, only allow the CR5s to be able to use globals and command chat. Make all the CR1s report to CR2s, 2s to 3s, 3s to 4s, and 4s to 5s. Okay, sort of confusing, but let's move on. Okay, now, when CR4s become CR5s, take away their ability to OS are replace it with another armor thingy. I don't know, face mask, a second antenna on the backpack, I don't know. Give them something.

The thing I find is that most CR5s became CR5s just for the prestiege factor and for the OSing ability. In this way, it's lured a lot of dumb, stupid, blah blah, sort of people who just got that CR rank to get a cool backpack, a bigger OSing ability, and to look pimp with a backpack. If we take the OSing ability away (what I think is the main lure) it will actually attract people who are interested in leading the Empire.

I'm not a psycologist and I don't work in the marketing department of any major corporations so I don't exaclty know if this will ever work. People are weird like that, that's why I like my robot idea.

Here's some other stuff that might help:
- Make each CR5 take a Planetside Test made by the CSRs.
- Make each CR5 be approved by CSRs.
- Make each CR5 approved by Planetside players.
- Create elections which allow CR5s to be elected for a set term.
- Require each CR5 to have a number of merit commendations in certain areas.
- Require each CR5 pay Planetside 3 more dollars on their subscription.
- Require each CR5 to stay active for at least 3 months, and leave may only be allowed per request to a CSR.
- Limit the number of CR5 to a squad, and only allow squads with 100+ members to have CR5s.
- Give me all your money.

By the way, there are many great CR5s out there (I love you MasterElf, ditch your wife for me! :) ). It's a pity that the only good CR5s are the ones you don't hear. They are the once who direct their outfits rather than following the zerg. It's always the bad CR5s who you hear about, what a pity. But every once in awhile you hea about good CR5s.

Some more stuff I just though of:
- CR5s should merely state that reinforcements are required, and not try to bait or lure people with the promise of a good fight, or good experience. Let the player's decide, it is their money, not yours, hence it is their decision where to go.
- CR5s must agree on a plan of action everyday.
- A CR5 must be placed in charge of every continent that has friendlies operating in.
- CR5s whould coordinate with one another.
- There should be seperate CR5 roles. Support, assault, resecure, spec ops. Each CR5 should have a role and should coordinate with one another.

I must say that in order for one empire to be successful, two other empires must fail. So two out of three times, your empire will be on the losing end.

[Baneblade]

nerfing CR5s willl just halt the globals for like 2 months tops, then itll be back to the way it is now.

if you have a problem with your local CR5s, /ignore them. they arent your leaders. dont make this look like Lt. Dike from Band of Brothers.
I would give up my Global...would you?

It serves zero strategic value other than letting the whole empire know you have a backpack. Zero.

[Ait'al]

Im with jet on this one. Its not that much of a problem overall. It can be fixed and you would loose to much in the game if we eventually have good strategy in the game if they changed it. And beleive me CR5 Os is much better than Cr4. You cant kill a tower seige with a CR4 OS in emergencies, period! Besides theres another side to global that the cr5s just arent using because they think they are gods and teh only CR in the game in charge of anything.. And thats relaying info! The game gets very frustrating if you couldnt even do that moderatly. And im not saying this in the manner of globaling for an ANT occasionally, but what they could and should do if this game wasnt such a mess and there were enough organized platoons to offset the solos and the overwhelming amount of sqauds that are just solos grouping exp.

[Baneblade]

There is nothing positive about Global that actually makes it into anything significant ingame other than as a priviledged chat channel.

I challenge anyone to make an argument for keeping Global, preferably whilst not pulling it out thine arse.

[Manitou]

The key to any command structure is cooperation. You are never going to have every commander agree on tactics whether they be strategic or tactical, but the goal is to agree on something - that isn't happening now, much. There are some strides being made, but they are woefully small at this point.

Commanders need to learn that the worst possible thing to do is to split their forces over differences of opinions due to prideful arrogance. There are lessons aplenty in history of where when high command got together and made the goal a common one, the goal was achieved. There are also plenty of lessons where when the goal was personalized and individuals sought their own interests, the day was lost.

I don't think the system needs changing, I think the attitudes of the CR5s need changing. I am not criticizing them all. The ones that play "cowboy" and attempt to run the war on their own are the ones I am referring to. Build a heirarchy, a command structure within the CR5 community and stick with it. Do that efficiently and watch what happens.

[Indecisive]

Like I said, eleventy seven times,

you should have to write an essay, and have an sat score of 1200 to get global/continental chat.

[Baneblade]

Idealism is admirable if not practical.

Most of the leaders have no business trying to decide for themselves where to take a fight much less anyone else.

Another major lack is the need for competent leadership. Obviously it would improve the situation, but not really by any margin that would promote sticking to it long term.

In the end the only thing that will matter is the fight. Doesn't matter where the fight is, who its against, or which CR5 is spamming the continent.

PlanetSide has failure hardcoded into the game, and while that allows a constant state of turmoil, it eliminates the need for anything more than the local fight.

Capitols are certainly a step in the right direction, as is anything that adds more variety to bases, their functions, and their design.

All in all, PS isn't RPG enough to justify the need for a lack of an endgame. But that whole concept is problematic.

So the simpler solution is simply getting rid of Global, it serves no strategic or tactical purposes and the only people who will miss are the types who only use it to spam themselves or their outfits to everyone else.

People tell me to ignore everyone I have a problem with, but that wont solve the problem, only fill up my asshat list.

[Manitou]

Idealism is what carries the day when the Fog of War meets the practical.

[Baneblade]

There is no lack of Idealism in PS now, and certainly not more than there would be with other command rulesets.

The people who want organization either have it or will soon find it. The current asshatdom domination will not change.

Removing Global is simply removing the bad leaders' most effective tool.

[Kasion]

I was not attempting to start a debate over the game mechanics of how to become a CR5, as that is out of our hands at the moment. What I wanted to address were the current tactics, or lack there of, employed by the current commanders.

The inherent problem in the current way that CR5s command the war, is that most people try to do the right thing and follow the orders of their higher ranked members. I am not saying that all CR5s are bad, and make bad decisions all of the time. It just seems that as a whole, the big picture is not looked at by them. Most of the information passed over global/continent chat is pretty much self explanatory. 95% of the player base can tell if the generators are down or that a base needs an ANT run. Those are no brainer types of problems that need corrected.

They (the CR5s) also do not listen to the masses of people under their command. They just listen to each other, and most of the time they do not have the entire picture of the current situation when they make decisions. A chain of command should be a top priority for the CR5s right now. A primary CR5 should be a final say on all things, but below him are the rest of the CR5s that are in contact with members of their outfit and platoon/squad leaders on their continent. This should build the best picture possible for proper decisions to be made, and the top CR5 should never be heard on global, just on the command channel talking to the other commanders. Their primary job is to oversee the entire war on all continents and be the final say on if forces should be moved from one continent to another. This top CR5 listens to all of the information that is passed up from the lowest level troopers through the chain of command, and bases their decisions on ALL of the available information.

The CR5s that are in charge of monitoring/guiding the battles of their continent should be more involved in tactics and relaying information from the top CR5 and other important information from other continents. Move platoons/squads on your continent to better strategic positions especially if you are outnumbered. Use the current chat system to your advantage, and organize people. Don�t just spout off common knowledge information to everyone.

Now, this is a two way street in regards that the mass of troops need to start following the orders from the CR5s. If people have questions with orders, they should funnel them up through their squad/platoon leader to their respective CR5. Do not just ignore the order. Have faith in the CR5s, especially if they start to change their command styles.

There is no quick, overnight, process to correct the current situation. All players, not just he CR5s, need to make a conscious effort in improving the process and flow of information so that the best possible solution can be made for the empire.

[Lazarus12]

What's needed imho is a limit on the amount of cr5s in the game. Let's say 5, the cr5's rotate on a weekly basis based on cep and game time. Don't let the current cr5's gain cep. at the end of the week the cr5 qualified with the 5 most cep and have been in game for that week, get promoted to cr5. the former get demoted to cr4 but can now restart accumulating command rank.

I think this will limit the quanity of cr5s in the game allowing them to coordinate better.

[Toneball]

It's not the dumbass CR5s that are the problem, per se. It's the midless idiots who follow said dumbass CR5s global spam, not thinking about the consequenses. The solution is simple enough, pay attention to the CR5s that actually lead a successfull assault / defence, and ignore the idiots. Personally, I could care less how many people had CR5, I know the ones I like to follow, the ones that KNOW HOW TO LEAD. The rest can piss off for all I care.

L8

[Ait'al]

You cant limit the number of cr5s because it will desrupt the game, or keep it wehre it is. The OS is a feild based weapon and is meant for it and you need it on hand. Not to mention you need several cr5s on each continent, atleast for globaling and preferably more for the os or anything else they could be doing. We dont exactly have a lot of cr5s on and you need to account for when people play and how much theyre on.

[NinjaBob]

i want cr5 for the backpack :domotwak:

[JetRaiden]

I like the idea of command cert points, having to choose between an OS or global.

[Baneblade]

I still think Global is something nobody needs.

And if the CR4 /sitrep worked to CR5s, that might help.

[JetRaiden]

besides, cant you make it so your chat window doesnt show globals? :rolleyes:

[Baneblade]

The problem isnt that simple...

Sofar not one person has came up with a reason to keep Globals, and turning them off isnt that reason.

Im a CR5, and I want Global gone, its annoying and serves no constructive purpose.

[Cauldron Borne]

][D ][ ][\/][ ][D ][ ][\][ <==I swear to God a CR5 globaled that right in the middle of a Cyssor fight....

[JetRaiden]

until something is done about global, change your chatbox settings so you dont recieve them. I did that with local on the test server because during the fountain its impossible to communicate with 200+ people going

"Hi!"
"Defend our Vehicle Facilities"
"Well met"
"Warning! Sniper!"
"You can't beat me."
"Hello"
"Attack their Spawn Tubes"
"Well met"
"You call yourself a soldier?"
"Incoming MAX Units!"
"Incoming MAX Units!"
"Help!"
"Incoming Enemy Aircraft"
"Well met"
"Hello"
"Defend the Generator"
"Greets"

etc...

[Cauldron Borne]

You know you're a planetside junkie when:

you not only remember what the voice macros say, you also remember the sequence in which they are said....


=D!

[Baneblade]

And when you can identify the voices...

[Papagiorgio]

The CR5s consult each other before making any sort of global directions. You should see the NC Markov command chat... while there are certainly goofballs on it, we also debate "where to next" all the time, and we vote collectively on where to send the empire next.

I spent over a year getting CR5, and worked very hard to get it, being a squad member a lot more than I was a leader. I never "CEP wh0red," and had BR20 back when I was just CR3.

So don't knock the CR5s until you've actually spent the effort to become one. :evil:

[JetRaiden]

The CR5s consult each other before making any sort of global directions. You should see the NC Markov command chat... while there are certainly goofballs on it, we also debate "where to next" all the time, and we vote collectively on where to send the empire next.

I spent over a year getting CR5, and worked very hard to get it, being a squad member a lot more than I was a leader. I never "CEP wh0red," and had BR20 back when I was just CR3.

So don't knock the CR5s until you've actually spent the effort to become one. :evil:

:love: NC Markov.


We dont get alot of global spam, and most of the Cr5s who do are just trying to help.

Devil Dogs 4 life

[Baneblade]

Yes NC Markov is the best :love:

[Kasion]

So don't knock the CR5s until you've actually spent the effort to become one. :evil:


This is the pitfall that I see a lot of the CR5s fall into, just because someone has spent the time to reach CR5 does not mean that they are qualified to command a mass of troops. I am not saying that you do or do not have the leadership and command abilities, Papagiorgio. I am speaking of the CR5 community in general that I have witnessed.

Again, these are my experiences on my server and empire that I play in. I just would like to see a CR5 have the guts to stick it out on a continent until the end instead of giving up at the first sight of resistance. Use tactics instead of depending on sheer numbers and hope you can overpower your enemies.

I love to watch when the NC first show up on a continent. All of the sudden you start to get messages that towers are being taken all over the continent. They seem to use tactics and are coordinated before they even step foot on the continent. The Vanu could take a lesson out of their book, instead always sending the global message of, "Alright everyone leave your fight and head to....." Then, they never follow up with any amplifying information. Not only is it demoralizing to see a hard fought battle come crashing to an end, but it is also very confusing as you have people heading off in different directions once they get to the new continent.

Time spent playing the game does not make a person a better commander, IMHO. It is the time that they spend listening to the people under their command and the other commanders, while applying this information to make their decisions. Just don't look at the global map and say, "Well, there is really nobody here, so let's pull all of our resources together and try to take it!"

Anyone can do that, support your troops and organize them. Don't use your amount of time spent playing the game as your crutch as to why people should listen to you. Let your actions show your abilities, not your time spent playing the game.