Take note, CEP exp across th board info from SJ.

[MrVicchio]

Author Topic: Are CEPs Shared?
BrimstoneMighty
Station Member
Registered: Jun 2002 posted 02-07-2003 11:10 AM user search report post
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I understand that BEPs are given to all members within a squad for every kill made, but what about CEPs?
If three of four squads team up to capture a base, is the squad that hacked the base the only one to get CEP? Or is it that all squad leaders within the SOI get CEPs as well?
I have searched everywhere I can think of for this but I have been unsuccessful.
What do you think?


A little bit o' the serious post for ya folks.

SmokeJumperPS
Station Admin
Registered: Sep 2001 posted 02-07-2003 11:46 AM user search report post
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Good question and I haven't elaborated on it previously. Here goes:
First, you have to be an active squad leader to get CEP at all. Just because you have command rank doesn't help. You have to be actively leading a squad at the time of capture.

The only person that gets CEP in a non-platoon situation (one squad only) is the leader of the squad that has the hacker in it that hacked the console. Sounds a bit like the "House that Jack Built" when I say it that way, but I think you understand.

When in a Platoon, all squad leaders in all squads get the CEP shared (just like normal squad members share BEP) as long as the original hacker is in one of the (up to) three squads in the platoon.

The hacker *can* join a squad after the actual hack has occurred and the squad leader will still get CEP.

Like BEP, no CEP is awarded unless the facility is actually *captured*...not just hacked.

SmokeJumperPS
Station Admin
Registered: Sep 2001 posted 02-07-2003 12:01 PM user search report post
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Napalm...I'll have to check on BEP sharing across a platoon. I *believe* that BEP sharing is only across a squad. Only commanders get to share CEP across a platoon. BEP sharing across a platoon would be *very* lucrative in terms of experience and I don't think we wanted to be *that* generous.
But I need to verify that.

http://boards.station.sony.com/ubb/planetside/Forum2/HTML/002458.html

[HotDogTommy]

good to know, thats the way i hoped it would be

[Airlift]

If BEP isn't shared across platoons, then piloting a galaxy is going to be worth nothing because the galaxy pilot and crew don't fit in a squad with the infantry they carry. That just can't be right...

[Lexington_Steele]

That does seem strange. Maybe they should have allowed 17-20 people in the galaxy.

I guess a platoon needs to put one squad in one galaxy, one squad in a second galaxy, and split a third squad between the two galaxies.

I would prefer it if an entire platoon shared BEPs but ech member got 1/3 of what they normally would have gotten. Or maybe a squad gets to keep 2/3rds of its BEPs and gives the other 1/3rd to the other two squad.

[OmnipotentKiwi]

I personally think this is a really bad idea (how CEP is divied up). When a standard battle as they invision it takes, as they stated, 100-200 people to complete, and only 3 commanders get CEP (which is really 3 out of the 10-20 there), that is just a joke. All commanders of FULL, I repeat FULL, squads should get CEP for capping and holding a location. Otherwise capping a base will be a race to get the CEPs rather then team work. Also, they have given no bonuses to commanders who defend, so we may see a "why defend when I can just retake it later?" attitude. All in all, I think the CEP system itself is very flawed, although the concept is nice.

[Flameseeker]

So a Commander sitting is his nice big Sunderer outside a base will get CEPs because his hacker capped the base, but the Commander that led 10 men into the base, neutralized all defenders, blew up the generators, secured the spawn point, killed the enemy reinforcements, and set up several perimeter turrets won't get CEPs if they aren't in Hacker-Boy's platoon? Hmmm.....

[LesserShade]

Originally posted by OmnipotentKiwi
I personally think this is a really bad idea (how CEP is divied up). When a standard battle as they invision it takes, as they stated, 100-200 people to complete, and only 3 commanders get CEP (which is really 3 out of the 10-20 there), that is just a joke. All commanders of FULL, I repeat FULL, squads should get CEP for capping and holding a location. Otherwise capping a base will be a race to get the CEPs rather then team work. Also, they have given no bonuses to commanders who defend, so we may see a "why defend when I can just retake it later?" attitude. All in all, I think the CEP system itself is very flawed, although the concept is nice.
^I completely agree here concerning base defense. I'm thinking that there should be some sort of BEP/CEP advantage to people defending a base in it's SOI.

[�io]

The thing to remember about CEPs is not everyone is supossed to get them. If you want CEPs then go for it, make sure you get a good squad and be a good leader, otherwise do like the other peeps and get those BEPs. CEPs aren't there too make you more �ber, they aren't a necessary thing, they are there to allow the few who are dedicated, willing and able to lead do so.

I myself won't be after CEPs much at all. Once i get my char maxed out i might start going for some command levels but even then i'm not sure.

[Lexington_Steele]

We should remeber the purpose of battles here. It is to enjoy fighting and compete for victory, not to accrue CEPs. As a commander, CEPs should come second to both winning your factions battles and to getting your squad the maximum BEPs possible.

CEPs and command abilities are a vehicle to be used for increasing your win percentage. You should be trying to get CEPs so your faction wins more battles. If getting CEPs is more important to you then achieveing victory then you are a detriment to your factions potential.

If you are a commander who is focused on experience points, it should be on getting the most BEPs for you squad, not your squad getting the most CEPs for you.

In the end, if you focus on taking care of your boys, your boys will take care of you.

[Airlift]

The galaxy crews are still getting the BEP shaft

[Steveokb]

i completly agree about the galexy shaft...if a galexy crew doesnt get beps for bringin there men 2 battle and thus causeing a win thats just stupid, no one will want to fly them anymore if theres not advantedges. im a piolt..gunner..and a fighter.. so i think that if im puttin my ass on the line 2 bring my men the support they need i sould be rewarded!
stevo-

[Lexington_Steele]

Maybe they could give a small amount of BEPs for X amount of time flying a galaxy.

[Hellsfire123]

He didnt say that there wouldnt be BEP shared with the galaxy crew. More then likely there will be a squad of gunners/pilots, and 2 squads of infantry. That will be a platoon and all will get BEP.

[Airlift]

Here's what he did say:
Napalm...I'll have to check on BEP sharing across a platoon. I *believe* that BEP sharing is only across a squad. Only commanders get to share CEP across a platoon. BEP sharing across a platoon would be *very* lucrative in terms of experience and I don't think we wanted to be *that* generous.
But I need to verify that.

Of course. the link is broken to the OF thread so there is no way to figure out if he verified it and what that verification resulted in.

[OmnipotentKiwi]

I am positive that BEP is only shared among a squad, and not a platoon.

[Lexington_Steele]

Originally posted by Hellsfire123
He didnt say that there wouldnt be BEP shared with the galaxy crew. More then likely there will be a squad of gunners/pilots, and 2 squads of infantry. That will be a platoon and all will get BEP.

In one of the dev chats dave specifically stated, no sharing of BEP between the platoon.

What thi means is that the galaxy pilots and crew must be a part of the squad they are transporting to get BEPs. This BEP policy deters people from just ferrying people to and from battle.

You are no longer a galaxy pilot first, grunt second, you must be a grunt first, galaxy pilot second.

[Airlift]

Therefore, the only way to include your Galaxy crews in BEP rewards would be to put your crews into two separate squads of 6 infantry each and let the remaining 8 infantry form the third squad with your escorts or ground vehicles. In my uninformed opinion, that is teh suck.

Come on guys, think of the Galaxy crews. They logically should be assigned to a single squad to carry two distinct infantry squads, but if that happens they get squat. Otherwise you have to use three diminished infantry squads to allow your two galaxy crews to draw experience from the operation. Futhermore, ladies and gentlemen of the supposed jury, this is Chewbacca:

http://www.ctv.es/USERS/ifustero/imatges/personatges/chewbacca.jpg

[RageMaster]

Galaxy crews can pick up ANT's and ferry them to EVERY BASE THEIR FACTION CONTROLLS for BEP if that's what they're after. If you're gonna fly Galaxies than ANT's are gonna be your focus.

Hell, everyone is going to want their base functioning, and if as a Galaxy pilot you can form a squad of gunners and grunts to safely deliver "The Good Stuff" to bases, then your whole squad gets the BEP.

Galaxys are gettin the love, you just dont see it yet ;-D

[Airlift]

A lot of the time, I'm going to fly galaxies and ANTs are not going to be my focus. My focus will be in getting squads to remote bases to raid objectives. I am interested in getting a share of the BEP from those raids, and it makes a difference in whether the galaxy crews can stick to their job or need to grab a rifle and jump out at every objective.

I'm really not that interested in holding bases, either. I'll leave that for whoever wants to fill the void when we move on to the next objective.

[Steveokb]

heres what i think... bep sould be givin to galexy crews for every man that enters the galexy and more for vechs. this would have a flaw as in people would just jump in and out 2 give people BEPS but i think its stupid that u only get beps if u run into battle drop off men u picked up at base and let any random ppl get in so they get out of the heat of battle and take off and get no beps for it...
stevo-

[RageMaster]

Steve, the method ultimately has to be exploit proof, so that should be your primary consideration when you theorise. The way it works at the moment, characters in a squad have to put themselves at risk some how to get BEP from battles.

You'd have people jumping in and out of Galaxy's just to generate XP for their friends... stuff like that. I personally think the way it works ATM is cool.

Hell, if you squad up with your gunners, there's no reason you cant lay the smack down on enemies as you fly in for the drop for the BEP. And as I said before, there'll be plenty of ANT work, especially for those out the way / behind enemy lines bases that need the nanites ;-D

-Jay

[Steveokb]

well i guess so about the explit proof thing i agree but if u think about this, if the only way u can get beps when ur transporting is 2 pick up your own squad then thats still dumb. i mean who stays in this little packed up groupe of a squad during a huge full skale assult? any team no matter how good they are there going to split up and when their transport arrives they are widley spread out. this will get it killed ect ect ect. idk im most likly going 2 be a galexy piolt/gunner or a reaver piolt. im just trying to make my point because i want beps so i can advance my guy, if i dont get beps for piolting a galexy then idk.
stevo-



PS. the names not Steve its stevo*

[Airlift]

All I can say is that if the best and only way to get decent rewards for flying a Galaxy is by ferrying ANTs around, I won't even bother to cert in it and I'll go for a tank or something. I want to play Air Assault, not Airborne Fueltruck.

[Lillemanden]

Well you have to remember that the point of the game is not to get BEP's, the point is to aid your empire.. And unlike online RPG's a lvl 20 soldier will not be total 1337, unless the person has skills.

[Airlift]

BEPs aren't the point until you're not getting any

[Zhor_Prime]

any team no matter how good they are there going to split up

if the team knows what they're doing, they'll keep together unless there are seprate fireteams. dead infantry don't do good without medics and medics will get torn up w/out infantry (read meat sheild ;), btw, i'm a medic hopeful)

[Steveokb]

i belive in the whole point that BEPS arint the reason for playing but i mean whos going 2 aid ur empire if u cant even kill the other team. the more beps the better you can get thus helping ur team to victory.
secondly- the whole thing with ur team spliting up can go 2 ways first- ur team can have different fire squad (as he said) but how the hell is the galexy gonna get BEPS if there all over the place when they wanna get picked up?? and second if ur team is running into battle there not gonna stay in this little group cuz thats just stupid if u guys do then someone sould drop a bomb in the middle of u...idk i would like to hear what the people at sony have to say about the issue
stevo-

[SKAHT]

Personally I tink BEP should be a proportional deal. Your sqaud killed a total of "x" guys. You get "X" divided by "Y" BEPs. Everyone knows that glory rolls uphill. You figure out a new way to conduct business. Well you get credit for it, your boss (squad leader) gets credit for it, his boss gets credit for it (platoon CO), the president of the company gets his share (outfit Co) and overall the entire company gets credit for this ground breaking revoloution. So lets do some math...

Alpha Squad kills 30 (insert enemy of choice here)

30/10 = 3 BEPs for squad leader (where 10 is the constant divider for BEPs at the squad level)

Charlie Platoon gets a total of 100 Kills

100/30= 3 BEPs for Platoon CO (Where 30 is the constant divider at the platoon level) I know it's actually 3.33 but we round down.

Anyway, BEPs are awarded to leaders based on the valor and merit of the unit. Anybody who has ever served knows that a commander is only as good as his troops are. The entire idea of a big ass assault with 300 guys and only one dude getting the BEP because his squad was designated to infiltrate the actual structure really chaps my ass. It take the team out of the picture.
Please note my formula can be applied to other fields i.e successful infiltrations and exfiltrations by Galaxy Crews (wink)

-SKAht

[TheJrade]

Perhaps there could be a way for a player to voluntarily designate or "tag" another player to recieve a certain number of BEPs (or even CEPs). Sort of the equivalent of a cab fare. Maybe even not a fixed amount, perhaps a percentage of BEPs and CEPs earned over the next 5 or 10 minutes.

i.e.
L33tbob: tag me for 5% and ill drp yer squad at amp stat Aja.
GunMaven37: sure, but make it 2%

Dunno, maybe it needs some work. How much is a tag worth... Can you take a tag back... etc.

I do agree that there ought to be some way to allow more people to get CEPs from a given action.

[Chanfan]

Perhaps there could be a way for a player to voluntarily designate or "tag" another player to recieve a certain number of BEPs (or even CEPs). Sort of the equivalent of a cab fare. Maybe even not a fixed amount, perhaps a percentage of BEPs and CEPs earned over the next 5 or 10 minutes.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

I was thinking that - a small percent, or a few points - would be nice to be able to distribute via donation or vote. Perhaps all the members of a squad / platoon could vote on who gets the BEP or CEP "merit bonus" for that action. This way, stuff could be given to defenders, transport folks, and others who help get the kills, without actually being the guy pulling the trigger.

Or, a commander could get some merit points to distribute after a base cap.

Anyhoo, I do think that support/defensive folks are very important, and should get rewarded - the tricky part is coming up with an exploit resistant/proof system to do so. Even in tribes, it was tricky for defensive folks to rack up kills - having the turret and mine kills credited helped. Folks who mainly transported were out of luck.

As for CEP point sharing, that's cool. One possible pseudo-exploit comes to mind, tho'. Any smart squad, say of nine folks, that knows it's likely to cap the base, would split into three person squads, formed into a platoon, so that three folks would get the CEP reward instead of just one.

On the other hand, perhaps that's a worth reward for being well organized.

[NapalmEnima]

Clarifications:

BEP and CEP aren't devided among the people in the platoon/squad. They're multiplied.

If I'm on my own, and I cap a guy worth 170 (a number I pulled from one of the screen shots), I get 170.

If I'm in a squad of 10, and I cap that same guy, WE ALL GET 170 (within some fixed distance of me). Multiplied.


Same deal with CEP. If my squad caps a base, I get 100 CEP (just to pull a number out of the air). If I'm in a platoon, and someone else caps that base, all the commanders get 100 CEP (again, within some distance).


So any suggesting of giving away X% of the BEP you would have otherwised earned would be adding a totally new mechanism to BEP distribution.

If a Galaxy pilot wants BEP, squad up with the gunners, and be sure to provide covering fire once your passengers have left.

From one of the Gamespot videos, it looks like the gunner positions have close to a 180 degree field of fire... so a pilot should be able to overlap the tailgunner and a side gunner on whatever target they feel should be fired on.

I'm guessing Galaxies have UNBELIEVABLY HUGE trunks. Lots of ammo. LOTS. All you need to do is plant that sucker where it's gunners can do some damage and keep the galaxy in good repair. 20mm slugs are no joke. We have 20mm GRENADE LAUNCHERS now. 20mm slugs with a high rate of fire are going to Blow Stuff Up Real Good.

I wouldn't be suprised to find that if a galaxy and a vanguard got in a straight-out slugging match, the galaxy would win (with the overlapping field of fire thing). Maybe not, but my money's on the Galaxy. Sure, 150mm shells are going to HURT, but a Galaxy will be able to take a serious beating. I'm expecting them to actually be tougher than the heavy tanks.


So I don't think galaxy pilots will be short on BEP. Quite the opposite.


FURTHERMORE, it's entirely possible that you won't see many fully crewed Galaxies. That "15" number is only for TR with their buggy. Without a vehicle in the hold, that number becomes 12. So if a whopping 2 passenger spots are empty, you've got a full squad, pilot included. So once you've reached your destination, everyone bails, and away you go. Pilot first, grunt second.


AND FINALLY: If all you want to do is ferry people around in a Galaxy, you don't need BEP. All you need is a Galaxy cert (and maybe engineering). So why even care?

[Airlift]

AND FINALLY: If all you want to do is ferry people around in a Galaxy, you don't need BEP. All you need is a Galaxy cert (and maybe engineering). So why even care?

Why care? Because I do, that's why. BEP and CEP comprise the principle reward scheme in this game, and it would be a huge oversight to exclude pilots from such a large part of the game. Advancement is a huge part of persistence and if it is not balanced, there is something wrong.

I want to spend most of my time ferrying people around in a Galaxy, and I want to earn more BEPs and buy more certs with them. Would it matter if someone who wanted to be an engineer could not advance by being an engineer? Does he need more certs beyond engineering, adv engineering, and hacking? Why should he care? Same reasons I don't want to get passed up by everyone else in my platoon for doing my job.

If you can't fill up your galaxies and still give the crews experience, than either the Galaxy or the Exp system is broken. Neither is acceptable.

[NapalmEnima]

BEP is awarded for battle success. CEP is awarded for command success.

A transport pilot isn't doing either of these things (baring various exceptions).

If there were some support EP (SEP), then absolutely, I think transport pilots, medics, and egnineers should be earning it directly for doing their jobs. But there isn't.

I actually disagree, in principle, with awarding BEP for ANT-schlepping. I understand why they did it and I'm not disputing their decision, but I see it as a hole in an otherwise pure system.

On the other hand, the devs have hinted at non-EP rewards for various things. I wouldn't be at all suprised to find that these are medals for various accomplishments. And I wouldn't be suprised to find that some of those accomplishments include being a transport pilot. Something measured distance or time.

This won't get you certs or implants, but recognition.

Airlift, I think you've been conditioned, through all the other games you've played, that doing good things = in-game reward.

That's obviously not the case for pure transport pilots. I too could see it as a flaw, but I can see why they haven't added Yet Another EP System. Development time vs Fun. I've been in this same boat, in T2. For the longest time, a vehicle pilot (tanks and bombers) didn't get any points for all the things their gunners blasted. Sucked to be me. I'd have kicked the holy hell out of their team... my tank SURVIVED. Big green boomies fell like rain... the enemy died in droves till a whole horde came for us, drawing numbers away from their flag defense. I felt that I was instrumental in our victories, but my score didn't reflect it at all. On some levels this bothered me. On other levels, my GUNNER (the guy with the rediculously high score for blasting everything they had into kibble) knew which side of the bread was buttered. And that was good enough for me: Recognition, not points.

And I still maintain that a pure transport pilot doesn't need BEP. :p

[Airlift]

But Napalm, the squads that take the objective would be a lot less successful if they never get to the battle. I contend that by sneaking my troops around to the back door and shoving them out of the cargo hold directly contributes to the outcome of the battle and should provide advancement for the pilot.

You're right, I am conditioned to expect to be rewarded for doing something worthwhile in a game. A game with no rewards really isn't a game, it's just a toy.

I'm willing to wait and see, but I'll lead a pilot revolt if I can't get BEP for piloting. Either that or I just won't drive a Galaxy, which was my biggest draw coming into the game.

[Hife246]

Like he said.. U want BEP (and I personlay think this is a VERY easy way) team up with ur gunners and just lay down fire on teh ground or even air (depending on whats happening and what ur attacking)

There is good that comes out of it... THE BASE IS CAPTURED!!!

If ur gonna be so Obsessed over BEP's then don't be a full time Pilot, A galaxy only uses 3 Certs. U'll have more than enough for guns and amors and all the other goodies.

Bah

Anyway.. food for thought

[Airlift]

You don't seem to be comprehending what I'm saying here. I am not obsessed with BEP. I don't want them to flow like water and raise my character to leetness like the tide. However, if you deprive support classes of advancement because they are support classes, then you have a shitty advancement system and it needs to be fixed.

[OmnipotentKiwi]

Originally posted by Airlift
You don't seem to be comprehending what I'm saying here. I am not obsessed with BEP. I don't want them to flow like water and raise my character to leetness like the tide. However, if you deprive support classes of advancement because they are support classes, then you have a shitty advancement system and it needs to be fixed.
As long as you are in a squad, I don't think there will be an issue.

[Airlift]

The reason I was complaining is the squad math doesn't really add up. I thought it was strange that a squad was less than a loaded galaxy (even without the vehicle) until they announced that there was reward sharing on a platoon level, which meant that you could put two infantry squads together with 1 squad of Galaxies and escorts and still allow the support personnel to reap the benefits of the assault.

I'm gonna shut up on the subject because there's no way to tell if my concerns are well-founded until they finish the game. It could be true that the Galaxy will slaughter infantry like an angry AC-130 gunship and even take out tanks as Napalm suggests. I guess I'd be ok with that, but I was thinking it would be more of a support ship used to deliver infantry and provide close air support for an attack.

[TheJrade]

Just had another thought for all you poor, bep-reaved (get it, be-reaved, har har!) Galaxy Pilots out there. I am a member of an outfit on the Vanu side called the vindicators (check us out at http://www.geocities.com/dviddleff/the_vindicators if yer looking for an oufit, we're good people)

We style ourselves an airborne assault outfit, and while we haven't thought much about the Galaxy pilots not getting any BEP, we may have accidentally solved the problem. The first squad in our first and second platoons is the air transport squad, containing the Galaxies and, ta-da! The escorts as well!

Any Galaxy flying into a hot LZ alone deserves to get it's big flying hiney shot off. Just squad up with the Mosquitos and Reavers flying with you and BAM! its TheVede! (if ya don't read PC Gamer, nvm that last joke) No, wait, I mean BAM! it's TheBEP, particularly if your escorting buddies are any good at dogfighting and/or strafing on the way/after the drop.

Another thought is, in terms of skill and/or attention, how much is required when piloting a Galaxy, so how much BEP *should* you get for it.

I envision two times when a character would fly a Galaxy for any extended period of time. First, when first starting out, to get a little semi-leechy BEP to get your first few certs. And second, towards the end of a character's "career" as a commander, orbiting near a battle-in-progress, monitoring the comm chatter, directing supporting fire, ferrying troops to where they are most needed, etc.

[TheJrade]

Just had another thought, as relates to ferrying troops not requiring much skill...

There are times when dropping troops does require skill , such as Airlift's hot drop "in the back door of the base." I mean, if yer guys have to hike a mile after you boot em out the door, any idiot can do that, but if you deftly maneuver into the teeth of murderous AA fire, your gunners ice a uppity tank and you skillfully land right on the Wicked Witch of the TR, ruby slippers and all, that ought to be worth some BEP! Perhaps something to the effect of the game's engine tracking how close to some imaginary epicenter of an enemy base you dropped off each character/vehicle, and awarding you BEP based on that.

i.e.
(defenders_certs_within_perimeter) / (distance_to_epicenter) - (air_vehicles_in_squad) = BEP awarded

[OmnipotentKiwi]

Originally posted by Airlift
The reason I was complaining is the squad math doesn't really add up. I thought it was strange that a squad was less than a loaded galaxy (even without the vehicle) until they announced that there was reward sharing on a platoon level, which meant that you could put two infantry squads together with 1 squad of Galaxies and escorts and still allow the support personnel to reap the benefits of the assault.

I would just refuse to offer your services unless you are added into the squad you are transporting. In either case you described, if you are 1/10, then you should get fairly good BEP. I guess we will have to wait and see.

[Destroyeron]

It really doesn't matter to me...lol. I'll just be doing my job. If I get BEP, great! If i get CEP, wonderful! I'll just be doing whatever I do, lol.