Empire Specific air craft

[Madcat170]

Will there be any empire specific air craft

if there is only the Mosquito, Reaver and Galaxy thats fine


any1 got any ideas approxamatly how long it will take to get all air craft certs and a decent lvl of weapons certs?

[Nomikahn]

SJ has commented a few times on the releasing of more air vehicles later into the game. Im sure some of these will turn out being empire specific. In my opinion, it may be a little hard to balance out air vehicles to certain empires, seeing of the advantages they can easily hand out.

[WCruler]

Thats a really good idea!

But there are only those three Air crafts.

[Kyonye]

if there were empire specific aircrafts, that would be awesome.too bad there's not

[Nomikahn]

I would rather see navy ships and submarines added, over empire specific air. There was some talk of adding naval into the game a bit after release, and now the talk of underwater battle just makes it better.

[Mopo]

Eh I really see no need for navy to be honest. Id rather have them expand on the areas currently set out. Id rather they add more land-based areas than expanding maps for sea-routes. And unless they made port-facilities navy would be kinda useless.

[Kyonye]

ships would be cool, but if you saw a map of the planet then you would see that ships are not needed.

[Arshune]

I think they'll probably end up adding a LOT of stuff over the life of the game. Look at Sony Online's "other" big game and how quickly/how much stuff it got. EQ started out probably like half the size it currently is, and had fewer kinds of characters. PS will probably end up the same way. Now, whether that new stuff comes in patches or expansions is another story.

I'd like to see an empire-specific heavy bomber put in, maybe a scatter bomb for the NC, a carpet bomber for the TR, and they could give the VS a bomb that works like their grenades and does aggravated damage.

As for navy stuff, I think it'd add a serious amount of strategic depth to the game if things like amphibious landings and ship-to-shore shelling were put in.

[MrVulcan]

I must admit that a navy would be VERY sweet, but I think that that would be a bit in the future.

What I can see semi-early on is a set of bombers unique to each empire.

There was a thread about this before .....

http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2305

there is the talk about bombers..... =)

But the navy would be a great thing to have, the only problem that I see is that there is just SOOO much water that it would be hard to find other ships. This would also make it much easier to invade a locked island. However I can see that if they made only certain places accessible by ships (Possibly Ship power stations only being in certain places os you cant go everywhere) and thus make it so ships could only land in some places, and go in some places, would let them make a few different types of ships. I could see carriers that create air, to battleships, to frigates and transports (largest transports probably). I don�t see subs, simply because it would mean that they would have to do a lot of extra stuff to get that to work.

Keep in mind that if they added the ships, they would also have to add things like beach head bunkers, etc to fight off an invasion, more bases, power stations for ships, naval bases (land, and sea probably), etc etc etc.

Ships would be very sweet, but I don�t see them for some time (possible for an expansion or something though!!!)

Just my 3.14159265358975 cents

-MrVulcan
:D :cool:

[Nomikahn]

The main use I can see for navy would be for heavy artillery support to shore side raids and/or bases close to water. I could see this however, becoming an easily annoying aspect of the game.

I definately would like to see the bomber idea taken into thought and placed in a future patch :D

[MrVulcan]

all air craft certs AND some weapon certs will take a long time. that is in the ball park of 12 certs (depending on how many weapons you want) so my guess about 2 months for the normal player.

Keep in mind that we dont know all cert costs yet, but we will *soon*

[Arshune]

I don't think it'd require THAT much planning...they could always just make it like BF1942 and only let ships get so close to land before they beach and die. That way, ships don't land, but they can shoot the shore.

[MrVulcan]

oh, the shore is not the problem, the issue comes from that there is jsut sooo much water out there, and if you let the ships go anywhere on that water, they could have the run of the map. But i guess they could make it so they cant go that far off shore... but I dont know if I like that.....

This is somehting that I think that we will be better able to talk about once we know more about the game.

[Arshune]

From what I know about how servers work in huge MMORPG games, each area is usually on a different server. My best guess about PS is that each continent will probably have a different server hosting it per server cluster, so if they did happen to add ships in they wouldn't have free run of the water due to technical limitations.

[Arshune]

If they did add a navy in, I think it might end up being like little patrol boats and stuff for the rivers and maybe a small area out in the ocean.

[Kyonye]

Empire Spec. bombers would be cool. no ships though. there is no point.

[Arshune]

How do you figure there's no point? Look at a screenshot of a continent map, a lot of those bases are near water, and historically, the big guns float.

[OmnipotentKiwi]

A couple of things:

1. The dev team is against bombers, as they believe they are like artillery, and artillery is spawn spammage, which is bad.

2. I really want to see aircraft (the Galaxy doesn't count, it is JUST a dropship) that need multiple players. There are plenty of aircraft that require a pilot and a gunner. Also, I would REALLY like to see a flying gunboat. HUGE, slow vehicle, very powerful, lots of guns, lots of players, AKA target w/ guns.

3. I have mixed feelings with the water things. Personally, I would rather see more concentration given to the standard grunt (non-MAX, non-driver, non-pilot, non-stealth) character as I think they will be somewhat lacking in the game, and need a bit more razzle dazzle to make them popular.

[MrVulcan]

I admit that there is a lot that could be added to this game to make it better. I think that the worst area right now is air. I mean, scout, and heavy scout dont cut it for me..... I think I would have even bought it better if the reaver didnt look so much like the mos. but there are many areas that could use more.... We will have to see what the devs do.....

[Arshune]

The way I see it, the standard grunt has plenty of focus on it. Vehicles have to stay outside, and since a rather large portion of the action will be indoors trying to take bases, the main focus of the game is on them.

Spawn spammage wouldn't be a problem with bombers because most spawns would be indoors inside a base, where bombs don't usually go. Besides, if someone wants to spam, they'll spam with grenades or a rocket launcher anyway, and what's to stop someone from using that big tank gun to spam the same way an artillery would, anyway? If there's an AMS somewhere, it's doubtful that it would be spammed so much as it would be destroyed once the enemy team found out its location. There's enough team-players around to negate any kill-whores there might be.

[Kyonye]

Originally posted by OmnipotentKiwi
A couple of things:

1. The dev team is against bombers, as they believe they are like artillery, and artillery is spawn spammage, which is bad.

2. I really want to see aircraft (the Galaxy doesn't count, it is JUST a dropship) that need multiple players. There are plenty of aircraft that require a pilot and a gunner. Also, I would REALLY like to see a flying gunboat. HUGE, slow vehicle, very powerful, lots of guns, lots of players, AKA target w/ guns.

3. I have mixed feelings with the water things. Personally, I would rather see more concentration given to the standard grunt (non-MAX, non-driver, non-pilot, non-stealth) character as I think they will be somewhat lacking in the game, and need a bit more razzle dazzle to make them popular.

damn straight.

[Mikedanad]

Originally posted by Mopo
Eh I really see no need for navy to be honest. Id rather have them expand on the areas currently set out.

Im sorry but the mojority of the planet is water...And you say naval is not needed? It'd be cool to see an oilrig-like base/tower in the middle of the water..Mabye for refurlling for planes, or as a meeting point.

[Arshune]

For the record, multi-person vehicles are always a cool idea on paper, but typically end up falling flat in execution. They suffer from a host of problems.

1.) Usually require the kind of teamwork you can only get if the entire crew is in the same room as you.

2.) Getting a crew together usually takes a chunk of time (time=EXTREMELY VALUABLE in an FPS).

3.) Bad pilot=dead crew.

4.) Sometimes they're just as effective with only one person in them (BF1942's multi-person vehicles). Other times, the vehicle may as well not even exist without a full crew in it.

5.) The driver usually doesn't get points (this isn't really an issue if what I hear about PS is correct, but in other team based games it's a major point of contention).

I'm all for multi-person operated vehicles, but unless these problems are effectively solved I'd much rather have everything not designed for transport be one-man only.

[OmnipotentKiwi]

The way I see it, the standard grunt has plenty of focus on it. Vehicles have to stay outside, and since a rather large portion of the action will be indoors trying to take bases, the main focus of the game is on them.
MAXes can go inside just as easily, a person can get out of a vehicle as well. Really there isn't a lot of focus on the actual grunt aspect. Besides, I think quite a few people would rather be a MAX then a grunt.

Spawn spammage wouldn't be a problem with bombers because most spawns would be indoors inside a base, where bombs don't usually go.
Also, bombers aren't like artillery with the constant spam, you have to do bombing runs, go back, pick up more bombs, etc. I just said it is what the dev said.

1.) Usually require the kind of teamwork you can only get if the entire crew is in the same room as you.

2.) Getting a crew together usually takes a chunk of time (time=EXTREMELY VALUABLE in an FPS).

3.) Bad pilot=dead crew.

4.) Sometimes they're just as effective with only one person in them (BF1942's multi-person vehicles). Other times, the vehicle may as well not even exist without a full crew in it.

5.) The driver usually doesn't get points (this isn't really an issue if what I hear about PS is correct, but in other team based games it's a major point of contention).

1. Or people who use voicechat, or people who play together a lot (outfits), etc. You eventually learn the little idiosyncrasies of your group.

2. This isn't a normal FPS, it is a MMOFPS. If you have played a MMORPG you will know even when there is a lot of action (which is very similar to how it will be here), there is normally quite a bit of down time gathering, prepping, etc.

3. I think most inclosed vehicles must be destroyed for their pilot to get killed anyhow.

4. Easy to create a balance between the two, but I would rather have them be innefective without a full crew.

5. Driver gets credits for kills made by the outfit in PS.

[Edit: Also, the more one man vehicles there are, the more likely you have people who just use one man vehicles.]

[Arshune]

What I meant by number 3 in that post was that a bad pilot who crashes ends up killing his whole crew, and that would be one unhappy crew. I'm sure Galaxy passengers will probably be pretty mad if their pilot crashes too.

Also, people in enclosed vehicles can only be agile suits or stealth suits (or standard if they're on crack) and that means that a pure infantryman would easily outclass them inside the actual base. MAXes could beat an infantryman toe-to-toe I'll bet, but they're not nearly as versatile, and as far as I understand it, they turn slowly. Slow turns means the infantryman could outflank them easily.

As for the teamwork aspect, not everyone has voicechat. Also, in an MMORPG, do you play with your guild every time you sign in or your clan every time you play an FPS? Most likely not, so a vehicle that requires 4 or 5 people to be used effectively would most likely end up sitting in the hangars most of the time.

The BEP won't be a problem for drivers, but what if they want to fire their tank's gun and can't find someone who's certified to drive it?

[OmnipotentKiwi]

What I meant by number 3 in that post was that a bad pilot who crashes ends up killing his whole crew, and that would be one unhappy crew.
Yeah, thought you said dead pilot ;) Anyhow, on that note, I would imagine you would get use to which players are good, which are bad, etc, just like any MMO.

MAXes could beat an infantryman toe-to-toe I'll bet, but they're not nearly as versatile, and as far as I understand it, they turn slowly.
Yes, but it is still a mini-tank, and it will draw a lot of players.

Also, in an MMORPG, do you play with your guild every time you sign in or your clan every time you play an FPS?
No, but by the time I hit 50 on DAoC between my guild and buddy list I could always russle up a full group or two for something, should be the same here after time.

The BEP won't be a problem for drivers, but what if they want to fire their tank's gun and can't find someone who's certified to drive it?
I would imagine they wouldn't cert in driving and just try to tag around with em ;)

[Arshune]

I meant for the big tanks...they supposedly need both a driver and a gunner.

[MrVulcan]

with so much going on so often, finding a crew will be very easy! Just hop in your tank, request a crew, and im sure some of the 99999 people around you will decide, "hay lets go use the big tank gun", etc

Finding people willing to jump in tanks, etc is not very hard, esp with the scope of this game.

And if you cant find a piolit of a tank that you want to be the gunner to, oh well. Thats the way things work sometimes. There will be more people that want to hop in a tank then there are tanks, so unless you are in an outfit, etc you dont know for sure who is going to be riding with you, or if you can get a ride. (im sure you will be able to, there is just too much stuff going on not to)

[Valius]

Personnaly I like the bomber idea, the naval aspect could be added when the game has had time to grow a little. Course I would like to see maybe a couple mechs added in, even if the just equated to walking tanks it would be pretty cool.

[MrVulcan]

well, ill admit that I am a major Mechwarrior fan, but this game just isnt going to work with mechs.... I think that that is one thing that will never happen.... They wuold have to be super strong, or jsut be like normal tanks with legs.... That would jsut ... look odd.... I do not see Mechs ever in this game....

Nope No mechs, no space ships... no phasing through matter.....
:nono: :nono: :nono:

[Arshune]

I think MAXes are pretty mech-ish, besides...this game looks more near-future than far-future. Mechs just don't fit in.

As for the devs not liking the idea of a bomber...BOO ON YOU! :furious:

[Madcat170]

The bombers i can maybe understand it could get infuriating evertime some 1 comes out into the open so they can stop people from getting into the base they get a nice fat bomb land on their head it could be rather infuriating


the navy just wont work it would make the warp gate thingies completly pointless if theres a navy whats the point in em u just hop on a boat and go to a certain continent it just complicates things and will be a big patch or expansion.


if its a big patch thats just evil on the 56kers amoung us and i dont want to go spend more money on something that im not going to use just so i can play


Mechs=MAXes im a mech 4 fan as well and im happy with the MAXes

[BCR]

The reason I'm against a navy is the simple fact that (I'm pretty sure) the Devs have said that you can't fly from one continent to another (don't quote me on it though). This would mean that all the continents are considered seperate 'zones', if you will. to introduce navy units you have to do one of two things.

1. Phase all the zones into one giant f-off zone = Major lag.

2. Count all water as an irregularly shaped zone. This doesn't seem that that bad an idea, except when you consider the size of the water. Planes are normally a fair bit faster then your average battle ship (which would probably require at least 4 people to operate effectively), so if a galaxy takes (pulling the figures out of my rear end) 10 minutes to cross from one continent to another, one could assume a battleship would take at least 15.

Could you stand 15 minutes of being bored (the chances of encountering another battleship is very low on such a large area), and then about 30 minutes of two people firing a very big gun at the shore? (Lets face it, crew would be along the lines of
1 - navigator
2 - Anti battleship gunners/artillery men
1 - Anti aircraft
That's two people who can shoot at the shore, one who can launch a few rounds at any planes that stray close by, and one person sitting there waiting for the attack to end.)

I think alot of people see water craft in a way similar to Galaxies.
Nahh. Galaxy pilots fly into battlezones, watching the troops on the ground advance upon the base, and drop some people into to bolster the attack/defense while under heavy fire from the enemy.

A battleship would sit there, shoot at little, and maybe have to shoot down a plane.

"What about the rare navel battles?" I hear you say. Two ships float past each other pumping rounds of ordanance into each other. Not difficult driving, and if you miss a ship the size of a battleship, you should practise a bit more.

The only alright job for ships would be like a navel APC, but let's face it, there are already plenty of Galaxy pilots willing to do that. The only advantage I can see is that it might take less certs.

Just my stupid ramblings.

[Duritz]

I've talked about this before:
Originally posted by Duritz
Naval vehicles, contrary to most opinions, need not be restricted to artillery warfare to be interesting. I think that naval battles could, with considerable difficulty, be integrated into this game without death spamming.

The simplest way to do this is simply to use ships that do not REQUIRE artillery to be useful. But, truly before any of this there is no point in having naval units without artillery capabilities and not have naval bases. Not only the harbor ideas, but islands, floating bases, submarine bases, and underwater domes.

Also, if you are going to add lots of water around noobs, you have to let people swim, so to balance this you could simply have a line of swimming armor. Stealth, Agile, Reinforced, and MAX water suits. Then simply do not allow any weapons to be fire underwater. This would not be too hard to code, but the art would be EXTREMELY difficult. Once you have the basics, just like on land, armor, bases, and weapons, you can move towards creating vehicles for this environment.

If you divert your concept of naval battle away from artillery, then of course you can see the possibilty for quite a few designs. The only real problem with most of these is that, with the size being considered, how are they to be operated? Anyway.....

Aircraft Carriers, of course, are the obvious first choice. However, it would simply be too powerful to have these spawn planes, so just have it be one HUGE landing pad. Complete with advanced radar capabilites they could be quite nice.

Submarines are easily the next wanted addition. I believe that these could only be either a 1-person or a pilot/gunner setup. There could easily be one of both.

Destroyers also have a role. Simply let them use their AA capabilities and depth charges to basically deter other vehicles from coming too close.

All of these new basses would be extremely exciting battle locations, they would be more than enough to support the whole naval idea.

You see, you don't HAVE to have the spamming, and it would allow the naval battles to have a purpose, rather than only being able to shell land bases. You could allow tank like ships which use minimal artillery ability.

[CystmGlytch]

im glad there is not going to be empire specific aircraft. Hopefully this will limit the # of pilots in the air, and put more people on the ground.

[Madcat170]

Uh wheres it say there isnt going to be any? there might be one day just insn't any at the moment


whats wrong with having pilots in the air? the more there are the less likly they are to be shooting at the infrantry and the more chance there will be some kickass air battles

any way from what i can tell

Mosquito= strafing runs, scouting
reaver=tankbuster
Gaxalxy= drop ship (weapons on it are for holding off the tanks and other aircraft that will be trying to kill it)