RPG or FPS -- which comes first?

[Warborn]

I remember back in the day, one thing that was echoed fairly often during speculation was that the game was meant to be more an FPS than an RPG. So that, a BR1 character would have a pretty even chance against a BR20 person, because it would be more "pure" FPS this way.

Now just recently Samhayne mentioned on the AGN chat that he has worked previously on Everquest, and that he's a big fan of character development. This is interesting, because I believe this marks a switch from the aforementioned design focus ("as even as possible") to a more MMORPG slant, with more ways to accrue benefits and rewards for your character, increasing the gap between BR1 and BR20 until the old argument simply isn't valid anymore.

So I'm curious, what do you guys think? Would you rather see Planetside have more ways to get stuff for your guy, to increase his power and capabilities to such a point where the old BR1 (totally new) vs BR20 (veteran) fairness axiom is totally invalid? Or do you think they should try and keep the game even as it is right now, but roll out more weapons and vehicles and stuff for people to cert in and use?

To kick it off, I'm personally in favor of the RPG slant. Planetside does not have what it takes to be a truly excellent FPS game in the traditional sense. No headshots, no rocket jumping, and so on. If you play it like Counter-strike, you'll get bored fast. But having lot's of ways to build up your character and unlock vehicle and weapon variants and other advantages is something that I think appeals to everyone, to one degree or another. People like to increase their levels and stats and get phat lewt, and that's one way that they could make Planetside really compelling, while also working to improve the core gameplay through other means.

So whatcha think? Keep it as fair as possible and just expand the arsenal/give cosmetic awards like merit commendations will be initially, or give more disparity between the newb and the vet through the implimentation of abilities and otherwise advantages that you can earn through playing?

[Baneblade]

Well, as long as being BR20 doesn't mean you win no matter what, I am fine with character developement.

It's no fun not to be challenged.

While I think there should be more BRs, I also think cert handling should change (starting at BR10 you only get one cert point per 2 levels. And implants every 10 levels, first one at BR10)

[Thunder_Hawk]

the whole idea of the RPG elements in PS are to limit chraters to certain roles without having classes like other FPS. Take Team Fortress 1.5 for example. there are 9 classes each one with a specific role in the game(although some overlap), they all have strenghts and weakenesses. Soldiers can't heal, Snipers are screwed when caught from behind, and spies terrorize enemy engies(ah the memories). In PS, Grunts can resurret teammates if they choice so, or they operate vehicles. snipers can carry Ha to protection or plant some spitfires, and cloakers usually don't pay as huge a role as spies do but they're not all that effective right now. the way it stands now is a great sytem that just needs a few minor tweeks(read: balance issues, Flails). its a inbetween of open ended RPG style of picking all your skills as you level, and a ridgid class system that restricts you to one loadout. PS is a game like no other, and this cert system keeps people from being able to handle all situations, but not being restricted to one speicific role. As people level up their charaters, giving them more hp or less CoF bloom isn't fair because thats now how the game is played. noobs are supposed to kill vets sometimes. thats the nature of FPS as much as high level people own the shit of of level one people in RPGs. Its a MMOFPS with RPG elements, not MMOUT2006 or everquest, a game that stands alone.

[Queensidecastle]

I think the odds of a BR1 beating a BR20 in a straight fight are so great as it is, that post BR20 advancement really shouldnt make it any worse. 99% of the time the BR1 is going to get totally pwned anyways.

[Warborn]

I think the odds of a BR1 beating a BR20 in a straight fight are so great as it is, that post BR20 advancement really shouldnt make it any worse. 99% of the time the BR1 is going to get totally pwned anyways.

I'd disagree with that. A BR1 with agile and MA is still pretty much the same as a BR20 in most cases, assuming they're both playing infantry and one isn't in Rexo with HA or something. I can get kills just fine using my lower level alts. BR20 vs BR1 really isn't a very big difference right now, although the BR20 definitely would have an edge in the fight, and would probably be able to heal/repair himself between fights too, so overall the BR20 would be better, but the BR1's are still very capable of killing a few BR20's themselves except in rock vs paper scenarios like previously mentioned.

And considering that the only things different between a BR1 and BR20 are the implants and certs, there is absolutely room for them to add on more ways to improve yourself, and Samhayne is in favor of such a direction from what it sounds like. What if you could have your COF made 25% tigher? What if you always had a base of 125 health? What if some of the highest level merit stuff let you access weapons which made the current stuff obsolete in comparison, or unlocked a type of armor even better than Rexo? All these things would contribute toward the RPG aspect of the game, but detract from the previous doctrine by making lowbies at an even greater disadvantage.

[Red October]

I'm in for FPS. I'm also for adding more Certs, Implants, etc. I also agree with ranks above BR20, but in a more specialized way. Example: Second side arm holster (infiltraitors), expanded backpack space, "engneer packs (similar to medkits) for MAX Units, etc. Basically benefits that can only come with long term play and increased specialization. Ex. A perk such as quicker reload time for HA would be useless for an infiltraitor specialization, but very usefull for Heavy Weapons specialization.

Perks like that would most certainly allow enhancements for those who have been around, but still allow someone to get that "lucky shot" or awards superior creativity. Example: I land on cont, cloak and start heading towards the base. Just then I see half of my squad mates die from an NC OS bye Hawkeye (via the kill window). I round the corner of a hill, when who should I see, but Hawkeye, the one who just decimated our squad. So, I sneak up behind and put an AMP to his head and he see's the spawn timer. Now if this was an RPG, getting the drop on someone would not neccessarily be possible. Sure I may getting that "extra" hit on him, but it would be pointless if he's so far advanced (as he was at the time) that he turns around after a full clip and wastes me. Why would I even bother then?

[JetRaiden]

I'd disagree with that. A BR1 with agile and MA is still pretty much the same as a BR20 in most cases, assuming they're both playing infantry and one isn't in Rexo with HA or something. I can get kills just fine using my lower level alts. BR20 vs BR1 really isn't a very big difference right now, although the BR20 definitely would have an edge in the fight, and would probably be able to heal/repair himself between fights too, so overall the BR20 would be better, but the BR1's are still very capable of killing a few BR20's themselves except in rock vs paper scenarios like previously mentioned.

And considering that the only things different between a BR1 and BR20 are the implants and certs, there is absolutely room for them to add on more ways to improve yourself, and Samhayne is in favor of such a direction from what it sounds like. What if you could have your COF made 25% tigher? What if you always had a base of 125 health? What if some of the highest level merit stuff let you access weapons which made the current stuff obsolete in comparison, or unlocked a type of armor even better than Rexo? All these things would contribute toward the RPG aspect of the game, but detract from the previous doctrine by making lowbies at an even greater disadvantage.

eh, I dunno. BR1s do get pwned by BR20s all the time. BR20s have: Implants, medapps, BANKs, surperior skills, etc...ok, MAYBE in a 1 of 10 or 20 scenario where the BR20 has agile and a sweeper, with no implants on.

[EarlyDawn]

Needs a fair balance, imo. So I voted for my favorite.

[Warborn]

eh, I dunno. BR1s do get pwned by BR20s all the time. BR20s have: Implants, medapps, BANKs, surperior skills, etc...ok, MAYBE in a 1 of 10 or 20 scenario where the BR20 has agile and a sweeper, with no implants on.

Most BR1's lose because they're new to the game. I have a few alts in other empires that I play now and then on Markov and Werner, and despite their level I still do get a fair number of kills with them. A pulsar is a pulsar no matter what armor I'm wearing, after all. Implants and support certs help, but as I said previously, I'm not suggesting there isn't any unfairness at all right now. I'm asking, would you rather this unfairness be made more prominent so that you have useful stuff to work toward for your character, or do you think the way it is now is as "bad" as it should get?

Needs a fair balance, imo. So I voted for my favorite.

Yeah, agreed, I wouldn't want to see it go all-out RPG, even if that were possible, nor would I want them to totally dispense with the RPG elements either. But would you be willing to sacrifice more of the traditional FPS elements, like the moderate fairness we have now, for greater RPG elements? Or do you think Planetside's strengths lie in its FPS elements, not its RPG ones, and thus the FPS parts should remain as intact as possible?

[EarlyDawn]

My view would probably be that I would rather see DEEPER FPS elements get added along with the Merit Commendation Elite Abilities. See idealab.

[Rbstr]

I'm a big fan of allowing your high level character to do more cool stuff, but not to the point were a skilled noob has a bad chance of taking you down. I meam ever if the stuff was just cooler looking as didnt acctualy improve in anythign but that i'd be much happier

[Atog]

i'd like to see a game where a noob and a br20/cr5 would have an equal chance of killing each other. That said, i still want more RPG elements as it is hard having a "Half FPS" game. You either have FPS or you don't

[Jekz]

I just want more cosmetic uniqueness. :|

[JetRaiden]

I just want more cosmetic uniqueness. :|

[/female]

[Baneblade]

I want more cosmetic uniqueness too.

I'm tired of everyone having my face.

[Lartnev]

But everyone having the same face means less work for your computer :(

[Baneblade]

No it doesn't

[Rbstr]

yeah it does. each unique face has to be rendered differently than the one next to it, requiring more processing time, and texture memory.

Though things like different colored armor, and a few more weapon models are doing the same thing they don't add up the the amount that eveyone with a different face would.

[Baneblade]

It isn't a huge problem though, since most of the time you only see helmets.

But I can't imagine more detailed character creation making PS worse.

[JetRaiden]

It isn't a huge problem though, since most of the time you only see helmets.

But I can't imagine more detailed character creation making PS worse.

itll lag PS like 2x over, which is bad enough for most people that already lag.

[Atlas24]

I could care less what my character looks like, but maybe we could get more diversity between the characters, more 'skills'. Its kinda crappy to know that there are probably a few hundred ppl out there with the same certs exactly as me.

[Jekz]

Not seeing the same conscriptive characters over and over again would have a subliminal psychological effect on how you enjoy the game.

[Rbstr]

It isn't a huge problem though, since most of the time you only see helmets.

But I can't imagine more detailed character creation making PS worse.

but think about all the people that were agile, and you still have to render the face portion at the very least.

Take it from people that know what they're talking about.

[Baneblade]

I still don't see why it would be so much more of a problem.

[Rbstr]

the huge polygon count added by making those minute ajustments

[Baneblade]

As far as I know the polygon count never changes.

[TeraHertz]

FPS first, RPG second.

The combat itself is fine. A BR1 should have the same chances as a BR20, but we do need more charachter developement. Special skills ( like the CR skills ) are the way to go.

Things that 1 on 1 arent going to give you much of an advantage, but in the grander scheme of things give you an edge.

[Baneblade]

There is a game in the works that happens mainly in FP, it is an MMORPG, it is in the fantasy setting (imo the only thing wrong with it sofar). Only some of the melee combat will make third person view happen and that is because FP is kinda hard on melee. Anyway, it is called Darkfall Online.

[Death909]

I hate how PS at the lowest settings looks like a game of cs (my pc is below minimum requirements btw) with more people and vechiles while farcry doesn't lag when there is more than 10 people and 3 vechiles in view.

Then theres the rubber barrel thing and the slow bullet speed. At 150m people can dodge amp bullets too well.