Towable Artillery/AA (as per Hayoo's request)

[oddfish]

I've finally compiled the info on my plan for Towable Artillery/Anti-aircraft guns and Placeable Machine Gun and Recoiless Cannon Nests.

Objective:
The objective behind adding Towable Artillery and Anti-Aircraft guns and also Infantry Placeable Machine Gun and Recoiless Cannon Nests is to open up the playing field. The addition of Towable Artillery and AA, and the Nests allows for temporary fire-support positions to be set up essentially anywhere on the map, utilizing all the open fields, mountainous zones, and wooded areas that were made available to us by the devs/mappers. There is a lot of unused real estate in Planetside, especially on continents like Esamir, Ishundar, and Cyssor. Lots of space, but half of it is unused, unexplored, and underappreciated. Sure, there are towers scattered here and there, but they still don't utilize all that open space. This is merely one of the reasons why including Towable Artillery and Anti-Aircraft guns and the MG and RC Nests would be beneficial to the game.

Other reasons include the addition of new objectives to the scope of Planetside. When Temporary Arty/AA outposts are able to be deployed and manned they afford a whole new selection of missions to anyone who plays PS.

These missions include:
> Joining a convoy on a mission to deploy an outpost.
> Manning and/or Maintaining an outpost/fire position by gunning or engineering.
> Guarding an outpost/fire postions.
> Setting up an ambush along the road to a tower/base with MG and RC nests.
> Air-recon or Air-assault on an outpost/fire position.
> Preparing and performing an assault on an outpost/fire position.
> Increasing base/tower defenses with MG/RC nests.
> Spotting/scouting for outposts/fire positions.
> Scouting out outposts/fire positions for teammates.

I will go into greater detail on these missions and their benefits in further sections of this post. Right now, I would like to explain some details of the Towable Artillery and AA, and also the MG/RC Nests. Also, Hayoo has introduced the concept of placeable cover to me. When he brought this to my attention I made it a point to try to integrate the two concepts. Here is what I have come up with thus far:


Towable Aritillery
The Outpost concept is simple. Deliverers (I'm thinking of perhaps including the Harasser into the equation) will now be able to be acquired from Vehicle terminals with the option of an attached Towable/Deployable Artillery/AA gun or Sensor Array. I will give more details on the Sensor Array momentarily. First, I would like to explain about the artillery. I had toyed with the notion of making the Artillery Cannon varieties Empire Specific but I would prefer to leave that up to the Devs. Personnaly, I think that Common Pool Artillery and AA guns would be best, just with a variety of ammunitions. But, as I said, it's up to the devs. At any rate, here's the specs for the artillery.

Artillery pieces would be acquired from the Vehicle Terminals just as any vehicle, only they would come hitched to a Deliverer like a boat trailer is hitched to a truck. Only players with the Ground Transport certification could acquire Towable Artillery guns for the simple reasons of limiting the amount of Towable Artillery that would show up in the game. If just anyone could acquire a cannon or AA gun at any Vehicle Terminal then there would be a massive overuse of the weapons and they would become more frustrating than fun and interesting. At any rate, here is the first of three rather crude diagrams that I have created (I need the Drivers for my Wacom Art Tablet or these drawings would be more arty farty ;))

Thumbnailed Diagram
http://img66.exs.cx/img66/2528/TowableArtilleryEX1copy.th.jpg (http://img66.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img66&image=TowableArtilleryEX1copy.jpg)

This diagram shows, in a very basic manner, how the artillery will be packed/deployed/transported.

I will explain deployment of the artillery in a later segment.
Next I will discuss Anti-Aircraft Guns

[oddfish]

Artillery Cont'd
Furthermore, I think it would be best to make the Artillery Common Pool instead of Empire specific, but, again, that's up to the Devs. Under this system, the artillery piece will be the same for each empire, but it will have several options of ammo availible for use. This would have many advantages, but also may pose problems which I will touch on.

High Explosive Ammo: You're basic artillery ammo that explodes real big and does essentially what the Flail does, only it's a shell, not energy stuff. Some may ask "Then why not just park four flails far from a base and make THAT an outpost. Here's why: Because you can't just leave the flail there afterwards and go get another vehicle or some such. After a while it'll deconstruct or it will be deconstructed by the user. You can't deconstruct the AA and AT pieces. Moving on.

High Explosive: Kaboom. Good all around ammo. Does lots of damage.
Cluster Ammo: Much like the cluster ammo the Liberators drop, only in artillery shell form
Jammer/EMP Ammo: Massive EMP shell that does what a jammer 'nade does, only bigger, and blows up mines like whaoh.
Plasma Ammo: Same thing as Plasma 'nade, only bigger
Shock Ammo: Loud ammo that deafens infantry and saps their stamina, also does a degree of damage in the immediate blast area. Only a loud ringing will be heard, and infantry will have to walk everywhere until their stamina comes back.
Mine Ammo: Lays about five-ten mines in a myriad pattern. Mine fields?

This system is good because it requires less coding and therefore less room for bugs and problems, and, furthermore, it ensures there will be no ballance issues. But, the problem is that these weapons are fairly influential to the game and it may be better to have each Empire have it's Identity shown via the style of weapon that they use as their artillery.

Essentially, Empire specific artillery would be perhaps more interesting or unique, but pose more problems (possibly). As I said, the core idea is there, it's up to the Devs to decide which is more appropriate. Common Pool or Empire Specific.

[Firefly]

Let's not forget Slingloaded weapons (ie carried underneath a Galaxy or Lodestar via cables and dropped at a site). That would allow them to be placed in locations where vehicles or infantry cannot get to. Or placed on top of towers, provided they get rid of that fucking deconstruction thing.

[Baneblade]

I had an idea for a Deliverer or even a Sunderer variant, that was basically a flatbed that you deployed that had an artillary cannon on it.

I don't think the engine could do well with a compound vehicle. But who knows.

[oddfish]

Towable Anti-Aircraft Guns
Similar to the Artillery in every respect except this gun would be specifically designed for taking down aircraft only. It would have no other applications. The gun itself would be very similar to the Flak-cannon on the Skyguard. I feel that this is the most appropriate ammunition for a Common Pool AA gun. It would be deployed in the exact same manner as the Towable Artillery. I will discuss deployment in a future section. First, here is another simple diagram of the Towable AA Gun System.

Thumbnailed Diagram
http://img82.exs.cx/img82/5959/TowableAnti-AircraftEX1copy.th.jpg (http://img82.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img82&image=TowableAnti-AircraftEX1copy.jpg)

The next part of this discussion will include the Deployment System

[oddfish]

Guys, refrain form replying until i got all this shit done :D :D :D that way it's easier to read all at once

[ObnoxiousFrog]

Good idea, Deployable heavy machine guns would be a nice addition, as would mobile but weak artillery to allow for squads to move as a cohesive unit, and also to bring some sense of supressing fire to PS. I had an idea not long ago of making each cont have a few "bonus" areas in secluded parts of the cont, containing stuff like misdropped enemy weapons (in crates, the contents depends on what emp you play for), and some one-shot boost items for increased defense or footspeed in a pinch. Making the entire game feel more like a real war, with ambush points as well as a better system for determining enemy movement within a reasonable distance to create lines of attack.

[Rbstr]

i'd let buggies tow these things two. and maybee lighings, realy i'd let every ground vech but ATV and AT stuff carry these thigns around.

[oddfish]

Deployment
The deployment system would be simple. It would involve hauling the gun to the location which it is to be set up, stopping the Tow Vehicle, un-hitching the weapon itself, and then manually deploying it on the location that is desired for the fire-position. Detailed explanation below.

Acquisition:
The acquisition of the gun would take place at any Vehicle Terminal. The Ground Transport certification would be necessary so that the Deliverer with Attached Artillery/AA gun could be acquired. Once this acquisition is made the next step is transport.
Transportation:
You drive the gun out to wherever you or your squad leader has decided you are to deliver it. Sticking to the roads would be best because towing the gun would make it hard to go over the rough stuff. Also, towing a gun would reduce the vehicle's speed a bit, and also make it incapable of going Amphibious.
Outpost Selection:
An area that could accomodate the deployment of the guns would have to be selected.
Deployment:
Now, all that must be done is to unhitch the gun from the vehicle. The driver would have to do this because he's the only one with access to the vehicle's locks and what not. Once the gun is unhitched a player would then stand on the appropriate icon (the little yellow cirlce on the ground that shows a guy pushing the gun) He would then maneuver the gun around by pushing it. He wouldn't be able to push the gun very quickly at all but that's the reason why you need Deliverers. To move the gun a few feet into position with the Deliverer would be annoying, though. So, infantry may move the cannons while they are still packed. The next step is unpacking the guns. This is easy. All that is done is the legs and computer open up. The legs post out and hold the gun up in position and the computer boots up to control the firing of the weapon. Binocular acquistion would be similar to Laser Pointer acquisition for the artillery.
Maintenance:
At this point, the gun is deployed and unpacked into a set firing/position. Now, the next task is to load it with the desired ammunition. The gun has enough room for a reasonable amount of ammunition but it would not be wise to load ever variety into the gun due to the fact that the ammunition boxes would take up a lot of space. This would make ammo runs and ammo storage in Vehicle trunks a necessity, not a luxury. Now players must be more strategic. Also, Engineers will have to take care of guns as they get damaged.
Defending:
Defense of the firing/positions is up to the players involved and will be discussed later.

This system of deployment goes for both the Artillery and AA guns. Tactics in this area will be as varied as the players' imaginations will allow.

Next: Machine Gun and Recoiless Cannon Nests

[oddfish]

Machine Gun and Recoiless Cannon Nests
The addition of an Infantry Deployable static weapons system would no doubt bring a lot of variety and strategy to future encounters in PlanetSide. My theory on this would be to include two Common Pool weapons with separate identities and purposes that would allow for some more versatility in combat.
The first of these additions would be the Machine Gun Nest.

Machine Gun Nests
The MG Nest would be simple enough. A heavy machine gun that requires deployment on the battlefield by a player with Medium Assault certed. Why should this be available to anyone? Because the gun itself would not be the most convenient thing to carry. Much space would be sacrificed in a unit's inventory to handle the Infanty Deployable Machine Gun(IDMG). This way it would't become a whore weapon that showed up all over the battlefield, cluttering the place all up and hogging system resources and what not. Also, there would be a timer on acquisition of each gun. In other words, when you get one from a terminal, you've got quite a wait before you can get another one. Perhaps a 20 minute to half-hour wait, depending on what seems more reasonable. This way players would take great care in deploying them and employing them.

As far as the gun itself is concerned, here's the scoop:
It would be a heavy machine gun with no ammunition of its own upon acquisition. Ammo would have to be supplied to the gun, so creating deployment teams might be a good idea. The ammo for the machine gun would be available at any equipment terminal, just like the machine gun. The gun would remain in the inventory and a Hotkey would automatically appear on the HUD. Or, the player would simply map the key for deploying MG nests. The gun would then appear in the character's hands on the screen. It would be packed up, of course. The player would then carry it to a position and deploy it. The gun would set up and two icons would appear near the gun, just like with other objects that are able to be manipulated in PS. The icons would indicate where to stand to Man the gun and where to stand to Load the gun. When loading the gun, you would stand on the appropriate icon and load the ammunition straight from your inventory. You put as much ammo into the MG as you wish or as will fit. The gun won't disappear when it runs out of ammo, but it will be useless. This resupply system will make up for the fact that the gun will be rather powerful. It will have both AP and regular ammo availible for it as well. Also, it will have a forward facing shield that will prevent damage from small arms fire coming directly from immediate forward arc of the gun. Explosions and other damage will disable the gun and, more than likely, the gunner.

The necessity here being the ability to set up a strong defense of a Tower/Base/Outpost without having to have tons of manpower involved int he defense. MG nests will be great for holding off Zergs and other large masses of attacking infantry. In other words, the advantages an army gets from heavy machine guns in Real Life will apply to PlanetSide just as easily. Use your imagination.


Recoiless Cannon Nests
Recoiless Cannon? What the hell is that?
It's simple. It's a big gun. It's a cannon, basically. It's not as powerful as a huge artillery piece and fires rather slowly, but it does the job it is specifically designed for: Vehicle Destruction.
I will explain:
The Recoiless Cannon is like taking a tank gun out of the turret, manually loading it one shot at a time, and utilizing it much like a Phoeniz or Lancer or Striker. Only, it's stationary. The cannon will fire a very high velocity, rocket propelled, shaped charge, armor piercing projectile with the simple purpose of disabling vehicles in short order. The effectiveness against infantry is negligable at best. But, against tanks and buggies and the like, this weapon would be a champion. Deployable in the same manner as the Machine Gun nest, the only difference being their application. A diagram will be provided below.

Thumbnailed Diagram
http://img20.exs.cx/img20/8750/RecoilessandMGNestcopy.th.jpg (http://img20.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img20&image=RecoilessandMGNestcopy.jpg)

Next: Further Implementation of Concepts including Deployable Cover

[oddfish]

Further Implementation of Cencepts including Deployable Cover
Okay, here's more info.
Once the firing positions are deployed, and defenses are laid out, you officially have yourself an Outpost.

Outposts
Simple enough. Guns and defenses all set up out in the middle of nowhere, basically. This would utilize some of that dead-space that exists on so many of the maps. Which is good, because it spreads the battles out and keeps zerging to a minimum, which also allows for people with slower systems to be able to compete on an at least somewhat equal playing field. Spreading out the fighting would make for more interesting battles in any case. These outposts could be large, small, heavily defended, lightly defended, but always temporary. No matter how long an outpost exists it would never be considerered permanent because the objects involved are not permanent like Towers and Bases. The Outposts would have somewhat limited use, but, at the same time, would be very versatile. Kinda hard to understand, I know.

Sensor Arrays/Sites
Perhaps another towable utility aside from the guns would be a type of mobile Sensor Site. These sites would act like RADAR stations and would broadcast to anyone of that Empire on that continent. (This concept needs to be refined) The idea would be implimented as a type of early warning or survailence system. More of a counter-measure than an offensive weapon. A scouting tool, if you will. Like a giant Motion Sensor. :D As I said, this idea needs to be refined further.

Deployable Cover
Hayoo brought this to my attention on a few occasions. The idea of being able to acquire a type of deployable cover availible to infantry units via equipment terminals. The deployable cover would consiste of armor panels or crates of some kind. This concept would be good when setting up an Outpost. The cover would provide a better defensive position for the occupants of the Outpost. Also, the size of the cover in a players inventory would mean several trips, or, perhaps players would have to learn better teamwork to implement this cover. I imagine that only so much cover could be acquired by each player in a period of time before he had to wait for a countdown timer to allow him to start picking up cover again. This would prevent the deployment of too much of the stuff. Hayoo may be able to delve into this further, but I think the jist of the plan is displayed here.

CEP and BEP
If you or one of your squad/platoon mates destroys an Artillery/AA gun, the whole squad gets BEP and the Commander gets CEP, as per usual, except for the CEP. Also, as far as CEP is concerned, if you cap a gun, the Commander of your platoon/squad gets CEP and the rest of the squad/platoon gets BEP. CEP and BEP won't be too significant. Like I said in a recent post, like single handedly killing a MAX unit, or perhaps a larger vehicle or some such. Now, how do we prevent players from fighting over who gets to hack the guns? We don't. You'd better hope your squad's faster than the other guy's, that's all. Odds are there won't be much fighting over caps considering the fact that there'll be too much action going on in the first place. But, if there is, so be it. Some people are selfish.. Oh well. At any rate, CEP and BEP acquistion wouldn't be too dissimilar to any other way of acquiring it during combat, except that Commanders get CEP instead of BEP for captured or destroyed Guns and/or Sensors.

Next: Further Comments

[oddfish]

Further Comments
Now, why do I feel that these concepts would make good additions to PlanetSide? Simple: You see, there's a very large amount of territory that goes unused and unexplored in this game, and that's unfortunate. In real life, the entire world is the battlefield. So, why, in PlanetSide, is battle seemingly restricted to Base Caps and towers? Truthfully, it's not. Battles wage over bridges and around Warp Gates. But, to be honest, it still isn't as spread out and as interesting as it could be. Also, when all there is to do is cap bases and snag towers, it tends to get old after a while. But what if, instead of just base capping and tower hopping all night, you could go on Artillery hunts, or set up a gunnery outpost, or set up an ambush with MG Nests and such. That would open the game up soo much it's indescribable. The possibilities become endless when the location of the enemy can be just about anywhere on the map. And now, you need Mossie and Reaver pilots to do flyovers in certan grids of the map to check for artillery outposts. Now you need scouts to look for outposts and determine troop strength. You can't just Zerg anymore! You have to think and coordinate. You also need scouts to determine if an area is good to set up and outpost. You need guys with GT who can cart the weapons to and fro. This provides for open field combat and a wide range of tactics that have mostly gone unexplored in the game thus far.

All that this idea adds is versatility. It won't take anything FROM the game. Only add. And the additions will only benefit the game. The scope of the game will expand dramatically and the feeling will be much more immersive and exciting. Now, instead of knowing exactly where the enemy is, and exactly what to do: Grab a bunch of tanks, load a few galaxies. Gal drop on the CC and Zerg the Spawn room. Take out the generator.. BLAH BLAH BLAH, we've done it a thousand times over. What if, instead, you could go on a strike mission to take out an artillery position? That'd be a break from the monotony. How about going on a mission to set UP artillery? Yeah. Some outfits may even build themselves around setting up and using artillery. This whole idea just opens up a whole new palette of possibilities.

Well, there it is.

~oddfish
PlanetSide, NC Sunshine Officer

[Rbstr]

i totaly agree with your stuff here, but let the empire buggies atleast carry these things around

[oddfish]

i totaly agree with your stuff here, but let the empire buggies atleast carry these things around

I don't know If I agree with this simply because this allows for a whole new category of players to acquire the cannons. I think that people with GT should really be the only ones with the option. But, if this idea gets consideration then the Devs can decide what the think would be better. The way I see it, the less people that can haul the guns, the more people will be interested in helping set them up and maintain them. If everyone can haul 'em then there'll be tons of Outposts with no one maintaining them and that'll eat system specs and slow the game down and clutter the playing field. I want the guns in the game, but I don't want there to be forests of them. That's just stupid. I don't have GT anymore. I have AB. And, to be honest, I don't think the buggies have any business hauling the guns. That's just where I stand on the matter.

EDIT: Besides, the buggies are their own reward. They're fast, well armed, and you can drive 'em in REXO armor. Deliverers aren't as fast, arent' really as well armed, and are bigger targets. I think that they need some kind of a perk. This is just the thing. It benefits everyone this way.

[StrangeFellow]

oddfish and hayoo for teh win

great ideas odd, 999999 out of 10

[Hayoo]

Nice presentation, oddfish. I'll have to devote some time tomorrow to read through the thread more thoroughly.

[oddfish]

Hayoo.. we need to get this shit organized, homie. This is quite the idea we've got going here.

[Cauldron Borne]

May I add?

Make the mobile arty 'n stuff it's own special cert. Maybe one cert point. That will limit the numbers, and give thse guys with one empty cert point an option. The Nest's should stay MA, though. I like that.

And, because these things are their own cert, they can be aquired separatly from other vehicles. Maybe they would show your avatar pushing the piece off the pad when you aquire it. This gives you the option of allowing it to be hitched to any buggy, or transport. But not tanks. Gals should be allowed to "tow" these. Like Chinooks, as per Firefly's suggestion.

These ideas are really good, guys. Me likes. I can envision Outfits setting up player made, and managed, outposts. Sort of an Outfit "Camp" instead of an outfit base (which seems unlikely at this point). Ya'll should get a Dev to notice this, once it's refined, of course.

w00t for you!

[DropShipEdward]

can the guns deploy in the CY?

[Death909]

Why not some form of ammunition dump that Cr2-5's can call down from the skies every 60 min? It would work like an equipment terminal with a limited supply of ammo boxes. Cr2 ammo dumps would have 50 ammo boxes while cr5 ammo dumps would have 5000 ammo boxes.

[StrangeFellow]

more reason to get cr5 other than enhanced killspam, good.
5000 is a little overkill IMO because that defeats the purpose of going back to a base to get more amunition. maybe somthing like 50, 100, and 500 boxes, just enough to help but so the outpost still has to be interdependant

more later as i have to go to school now

[Warborn]

Stationary targets tend not to last very long. A set of guns you spent hours setting up would be gone after a couple CR5's got wind of it.

[oddfish]

hence the reason why placement of the positions would be something very important to consider. furthermore, scouting runs would be very important since the CR5 OS would be devastating to an outpost. The simple fact is this: The OS can take out an outpost, but you have to find the outpost first. A clever squad leader will know the best places to set up a fire-position and will also know how to keep it a secret. This concept will take a lot of coordination and some actual tactical behavior. You can't just zerg and HA whore anymore.

EDIT: furthermore, the guns should not take that long to set up. with the proper amount of players and the right vehicles, a fire-position shouldn't take more than ten minutes to prepare once the site is chosen. All in all, acquisition and deployment should take about twenty minutes. The fact of the matter is that you must defend your positions, you can't just set them up and forget about them.

[Batousai]

Stationary targets tend not to last very long. A set of guns you spent hours setting up would be gone after a couple CR5's got wind of it.

Can you say OS :D ........................ I knew you could :cool:

But im really loving this idea, but please let theses things be carried by Galaxies and Lodestars and make the cert points be about 5 or 6. It might be overkill but it will keep down the over-usage a whole lot. And make it so that they could be towed by harassers and Empire spec buggies (show the buggies some love :love: ).

Just positive critism: Im not feeling the recoiless cannon i dont see this being a good thing in planetside, maybe i dont see what you see, I just think it doesn't belong. And one more thing it doesn't take long to rotate a Artillery piece just F.Y.I. One more thing make these towable artillery deconstruct, like after about hour or two of being idle they automaticly deconstruct, If they never decontructed they would be all over the place and i dont think no one would like that. Just make to where you can leave then come back it if you want to and move it again. I feel a hour or two is long enough time to decide if you one to pack it and take with you or leave it to be recycled.

Everthing esle is right on point :)

[oddfish]

Can you say OS :D ........................ I knew you could :cool:

But im really loving this idea, but please let theses things be carried by Galaxies and Lodestars and make the cert points be about 5 or 6. It might be overkill but it will keep down the over-usage a whole lot. And make it so that they could be towed by harassers and Empire spec buggies (show the buggies some love :love: ).

Just positive critism: Im not feeling the recoiless cannon i dont see this being a good thing in planetside, maybe i dont see what you see, I just think it doesn't belong. And one more thing it doesn't take long to rotate a Artillery piece just F.Y.I. One more thing make these towable artillery deconstruct, like after about hour or two of being idle they automaticly deconstruct, If they never decontructed they would be all over the place and i dont think no one would like that. Just make to where you can leave then come back it if you want to and move it again. I feel a hour or two is long enough time to decide if you one to pack it and take with you or leave it to be recycled.

Everthing esle is right on point :)


The recoiless is questionable, i agree.

Now: THERE IS NO CERT FOR THE TOWABLE GUNS! NOR FOR THE MG NESTS!

MA cert gives you the ability to pick up the MG Nest and operate it. GT cert gives you the ability to hitch a gun to your Deliverer. Simple as that. The reason I say this is because I think it's stupid to have to Cert in a weapon just to set it up. And i also think it is ridiculous that any guy with a vehicle besides a tank can hitch a gun up and go. I do not, and probably will never, agree that the buggies should be able to haul the big guns. I just don't. Nor do i think that you should have to cert in the Towables just to set them up. That seems very silly. Do you cert in Heavy Assault just so that you can get the guns from the terminals and put them in your locker? No. Anyone can fire the guns, just like anyone can deploy them. The only thing you can't do is ACQUIRE them unless you have Ground Transport. Then, if you want to carry it by air, you simply drive your deliverer with the gun attached into a lodestar and have it carry you to the position. This is not supposed to be an overly complicated idea. Simplicity is what makes it work so well.

[Incompetent]

I think it should simply take a two point cert, maybe called field weapons, to aquire, and they should be towable by anything, although different vehicles are better or worse at it (a sundy could lug one along and barely notice it, an ATV would be doing 20.) The cert comes with an ANT for towing and anyone can use the stuff, you just need the cert to aquire them.

EDIT: Besides, the buggies are their own reward. They're fast, well armed, and you can drive 'em in REXO armor. Deliverers aren't as fast, arent' really as well armed, and are bigger targets. I think that they need some kind of a perk. This is just the thing. It benefits everyone this way.
I don't know what game your playing, but i wouldn't exactly call the Thunderer or Aurora undergunned (the Raider is a different story.) Empire specific assualt buggies are practically extinct, I see more harrassers then I see empire buggies, the Skyguard is the only reason anyone has that cert.

Edit: also, I think its important to note that the best way to get battles into the field is to move the towers further away from the bases, so the terrain in between can actually be a battleground instead of just a small strip of no mans land. They should still be within easy walking distance, just maybe 2/3x as far away as they are now.

[Black]

You guys should seriously Email SOE about your ideas or show spork on IRC sometime

[oddfish]

I think it should simply take a two point cert, maybe called field weapons, to aquire, and they should be towable by anything, although different vehicles are better or worse at it (a sundy could lug one along and barely notice it, an ATV would be doing 20.) The cert comes with an ANT for towing and anyone can use the stuff, you just need the cert to aquire them.


I don't know what game your playing, but i wouldn't exactly call the Thunderer or Aurora undergunned (the Raider is a different story.) Empire specific assualt buggies are practically extinct, I see more harrassers then I see empire buggies, the Skyguard is the only reason anyone has that cert.

Edit: also, I think its important to note that the best way to get battles into the field is to move the towers further away from the bases, so the terrain in between can actually be a battleground instead of just a small strip of no mans land. They should still be within easy walking distance, just maybe 2/3x as far away as they are now.


The Thunderer or Aurora wouldn't have Tow Capability. Towable guns are not a CERTIFICATION. that makes NO sense. why cert in something just so you can GET IT. ANYONE can use the guns. So why cert in them if it only means you can acquire them? That makes ZERO sense. ZERO.

Furthermore, leave the towers where they are. Also, there's lots of room out there to fight. Also, capping bases and towers gets VERY old after a while. This addition adds new objectives and new missions to the game.

As far as buggies are concerned. No. The buggies don't move the guns. They'll become more useful once this concept is implemented because of their fast attack capabilities. Assaulting a fire-position would be easier from a buggy since you can get there quicker and bring plenty of firepower to boot. Also, the cannons would have a lot more trouble hitting the buggies than they would hitting Tanks, BFR's, Sundy's, Deliverers, etc. I can't help the fact that no one knows how to use the buggies properly. In skilled hands, a buggy can be more devastating than a tank at times. I'm sorry, but there's no reason to buff the buggies. None.

The reason I chose the deliverer was simply to make GT more desireable but also, since GT isn't the most exciting cert, most people will still not get it and just go with other stuff. Just because you're certed in GT doesn't mean you're the only one who can USE the guns, just that you're the only one that can acquire them.

No buggies. No certifications.

If you get GT, you can get the guns. Simple. Anyone can operate the weapons. Anyone can set them up. Anyone can rearm them. Anyone can destroy them/hack them. Simple as that. No need for a cert. None. It's stupid wasting certs on something just so you can acquire it. It should be packaged with the GT cert.

[Incompetent]

The Thunderer or Aurora wouldn't have Tow Capability. Towable guns are not a CERTIFICATION. that makes NO sense. why cert in something just so you can GET IT. ANYONE can use the guns. So why cert in them if it only means you can acquire them? That makes ZERO sense. ZERO.
Emp Del variants and Dels come in the same cert, you seem to be under the mistaken impression that GT is an undesirable cert. It's not, it's a damn good cert, although moreso for the VS and NC then TR due to the Raiders suckage. It doesn't really matter if it makes sense logically as long as it makes sense gameplay wise. It also makes zero sense that all three empires are too stupid to weld a tow hitch to anything but a Deliverer for that matter.

Furthermore, leave the towers where they are. Also, there's lots of room out there to fight. Also, capping bases and towers gets VERY old after a while. This addition adds new objectives and new missions to the game.
If you want to open up the playing field to encourage open field battles, moving towers is the simplest and most effective way to do this.

In skilled hands, a buggy can be more devastating than a tank at times.
At times is a very dangerous phrase. At times, even the Harrasser can be an incredibly devastating weapon. On average, however, buggies are practically useless beside vehicles like Empire Tanks, Reavers and Deliverers.

I can't help the fact that no one knows how to use the buggies properly.
And I, apparently, can't help the fact you don't know how to use the Deliverer properly.

[oddfish]

Moving the towers only opens up so much of the playing field.

As I said. Capping towers and Bases gets old anyways. Having temporary outposts makes the game more interesting.

The Ground Transport cert seems to be the only one that is reasonable to apply the towable weapons to. Buggie's should not have this option available. Buggies aren't tow trucks, they're scouts and fast attack vehicles. Deliverers are meant to be transports, hence the cert. This makes them more appropriate for the task. Buggies have no business hauling Guns. And, furthermore, I stated that the up-gunned Deliverers won't be able to haul the Guns, just the Common Pool ones.

No Buggies, No Certifications. You cert in GT, you get to acquire the guns. It makes them less accessible so they won't be EVERYWHERE. I'm certed in AB, and I'm still saying that I don't think it woudl be a good idea to have my Enforcer hauling a gun. I'll guard a convoy of Deliverers hauling guns, but I don't think I should be towing one. That makes no sense to me. Buggies aren't tow trucks.

[Incompetent]

Moving the towers only opens up so much of the playing field.
It opens up quite a bit if they make the right moves.
As I said. Capping towers and Bases gets old anyways. Having temporary outposts makes the game more interesting.
I never said having temporary outposts would be a bad idea, I simply stated the best way to get the battles to the field would be to move the towers. Once people HAVE to go out there to accomplish there primary goal (taking bases) then the possibilities created by the addition of temporary outposts expand exponentially.

And, furthermore, I stated that the up-gunned Deliverers won't be able to haul the Guns, just the Common Pool ones.
Same cert, if you add the ability to gain deployable weapons from it it becomes an extremely desirable cert. Perhaps a 2 point defensive emplacement cert would allow the use of common deliverers for towing but not allow the aquisition of empire specific Dels? A trade off. Leave the Emp Spec Dels in the package and it's a better deal then SA was when it had the Deci.

[oddfish]

Same cert, if you add the ability to gain deployable weapons from it it becomes an extremely desirable cert. Perhaps a 2 point defensive emplacement cert would allow the use of common deliverers for towing but not allow the aquisition of empire specific Dels? A trade off. Leave the Emp Spec Dels in the package and it's a better deal then SA was when it had the Deci.

now i'm starting to agree with you. THAT may be the winning idea there. :nod:

EDIT: Outposts would be cool, but i just don't want to see them EVERYWHERE. it would become more frustrating and ridiculous if they were everywhere.

I have an Idea upcoming for a type of Towable Sensor Grid/Relay/Station that would make a kind of field around the guns that would significantly diminish OS effectiveness in the field. Or, maybe make them Null and Void altogether. But, this may be a bit of an unrefined and weird idea at the moment. I'll figure it out. Don't jump all over me just yet, I'm trying to tweak this idea and i have to go to Macroeconomics. I hate this class and i have an Exam.. blah.. BBL

[Warborn]

Not knowing the location of one of these bases is absolutely not a workable barrier against these outposts being annihilated by orbital strikes. With the amount of aircraft we always have flying around alone these outposts wouldn't be safe for long. For this to work, you would absolutely have to have some kind of anti-OS shield generator that creates a small SOI under which no OS can be targetted. Otherwise this is all for naught.

[oddfish]

Not knowing the location of one of these bases is absolutely not a workable barrier against these outposts being annihilated by orbital strikes. With the amount of aircraft we always have flying around alone these outposts wouldn't be safe for long. For this to work, you would absolutely have to have some kind of anti-OS shield generator that creates a small SOI under which no OS can be targetted. Otherwise this is all for naught.

like i said. it's in development.

[Spee]

While reading the text, I imagined one or two guys with an artillery peice going out into the middle of nowhere and blowing some crap up.

Then, after the article, I realized you could make a SICK base out of that. Artillery in hte back, AA near the Artillery, Manner emplacements all around, and cover everywhere. A CDL artillery outpost :D

[oddfish]

While reading the text, I imagined one or two guys with an artillery peice going out into the middle of nowhere and blowing some crap up.

Then, after the article, I realized you could make a SICK base out of that. Artillery in hte back, AA near the Artillery, Manner emplacements all around, and cover everywhere. A CDL artillery outpost :D

There you go. That's the idea, chief. ;)

[SniperDude]

I love this shit. Can just imagine an organized squad with two full deli's one towing AA one towing Artilery. Both posting up in the middle of no where. The drivers hop out and man the guns while the SL grabs the Binoc's and the rest set up defences, (spits, mines, run emplacements). Then everyone goes to town, ROCK THE FUCK ON!

One thing though, the binoculars should have a HUD linked to the gun that shows the area of effect of the cannon so he can direct the fire.

[Cauldron Borne]

Mkae the guns have a long timer. Not as long as the BFR's, but long. maybe 10-15 minutes. That way people are careful with their pieces. And I like the mobile OS blockerthingy. I can see a few of those posted in a base to keep off OS from key parts of the defence...

Maybe a Mobile Sensor Array? I think you mentioned earlier something about a giant towable Motion Sensor? just combine that with the ability to jam OS's and you get a neat little defensive devise.

I like the idea of needing a add-on cert to GT to aquire these pieces. sort of like CE, only for GT. cool.


And the raider roxxorz your boxxorz.

[Batousai]

Now when you say GT do you mean everything that comes with it (minus the Emp. specific Deli) like Sunderers. If your not going to have buggies transport them atleast have Fat Albert (aka Sunderer) do something, they need lots of love (the kind of love you can only get from your wife when she lets you sleep with her and her sister :D ).

[Baneblade]

You know, OSes are fairly useless tools as is, and not particularly powerful considering what they are supposed to be. Maybe there should be a deployable ion generator that scrambles the radar, cont map, and anything that would allow for precise targeting with coordinates.

[Sanguinius]

Sweet idea! i agree on the sunderers. perhaps a bigger trailer in which they can haul 2 guns?

Plus, the more troops in the sundy also = more ammo and mgs!