...great

[AztecWarrior]

In order to avoid The Impending Draft (thanks a lot, fucking liberal media), my mom wants to sign me up tomorrow as a both a US Citizen and a citizen of her native Mexico. (Dual Citizenship)

DISCLAIMER: I'd go if I was drafted. My dad shares this feeling. My mom doesn't- she's not antiwar, she just doesn't want me to die for someone who doesn't appreciate it, a la Somalia.

[Indecisive]

There isnt gonna be a friggen draft.

[OfaLoaf]

There's a draft? The media is responsible for it? What? :doh:

[DaShiznit]

1st. There is an impending draft. It's becoming more and more likely to happen because there's not too much re-enlistment.
2nd. Don't say there's a liberal media unless you want to get anally raped.
3rd. Slick. Dual citizenship to avoid the draft = good idea.

If a draft was instated, I'd be off to the American University of Paris faster than you can say "Vietnam".

[Indecisive]

Ya fucking tards.

[OfaLoaf]

http://img87.exs.cx/img87/5331/Canada1.jpg

[DaShiznit]

Sorry Ofa, but they've got an extradition treaty now. Bienvienue au Paris!

[OfaLoaf]

Does England have a draft these days? Countries that speak your langauge are always the best.

[Dharkbayne]

There's not going to be a draft, you retards.

Anyone who tried to instate a real draft would be commiting political suicide. Nobody would ever vote for them, ever.

[firecrackerNC]

Oooo lets hope Kerry suggests a draft then.

[OfaLoaf]

There's not going to be a draft, you retards.

Anyone who tried to instate a real draft would be commiting political suicide. Nobody would ever vote for them, ever.
I'm just mucking about with the idea... how about Switzerland? They're always neutral.

[Baneblade]

There isn't going to be a draft, hell the House killed a bill just to prove it, only two fucktards voted yes on a draft.

[Everay]

and they were Democrates, anyways, Bush says there is no need for a draft, Kerry says there will be a need for one under Bush, but not one under him. i dont think there will be a draft, its just Kerry using a scare tactic, and if there was a draft, id ask Marine Corps, you pussies.

[Triggar]

Kerry isn't using a scare tactic - it's basic logistics. You need x amount of troops to accomplish the mission in Iraq and we have x - y troops. There's a deficit between the amount of troops we need versus how many we have. If Bush gets reelected, who knows? They'd have to find some way to fill those spots without going to the international community who under Bush, won't help us.

Anyway Aztec, good plan. Your parents care about you a lot.

[Sputty]

Join the Mexican Army instead
/me giggles

[Baneblade]

Kerry wants to add two new divisions to the Army, now while that is a good thing, I don't see how he is going to do it...as usual.

[Triggar]

/me giggles along with Sputty

[non-thread derailment post scriptum for Sputty: did you see the Nephthys pics/movies in Martyr's blog? We took them just for youuuuu]

[Sputty]

Oh Ma Goodness Must Check

Edit: OH MA GOODNESS
SHE IS CONFUSED
She thought your earlobe was a nipple
Silly kitten

[Triggar]

Sputty I am laughing out loud, literally

[martyr]

^she is.

re: draft... i wouldnt worry about it, but i can't say for sure. stupider things have happened.

[Baneblade]

Oh Ma Goodness Must Check

Edit: OH MA GOODNESS
SHE IS CONFUSED
She thought your earlobe was a nipple
Silly kitten
You didn't finish...

Silly kitten, nipples are for kids










okay yeah it was a bad joke.

[firecrackerNC]

Join the Mexican Army instead
/me giggles


What army?

[Peacemaker]

Draft dodging....

For all those that would dodge the draft: FUCK YOU!

You live in a country where you are free to say and do as you please as long as it does not destroy a blury line of laws. You live in a country where thousands of people have lived and died to get you what you have. If you go and run away from a war because you are scared to die you are no better than the ones who want to destroy what we have. Fighting for what we have is what americans have ALWAYS done. We will not surivive if we do not fight.

People talk about peace being the only logical solution. Let me tell you this. Humanity as a race is a race of warriors. We were born into this world fighting. It is in our very nature to fight. You cannot run and hide from the truth, humanity is always and always be at war. You SHOULD be ready to fight, kill, and die for your country. The same very country that has given you so much. Do not be so foolish to say something like "But look what government has done to us!" What if we lived in a Soviet Russian controled United States? Then you would be saying nothing... because you would probably be dead for talking down about the government in the first place.

Fight for your freedom. Do not let all those who have died before you die in vein. It would be the most childish selfish thing in the whole world to run from the draft. JUST BECAUSE YOU DONT AGREE WITH THE WAR.

:rant:

[Mr1337Duck]

I'm gonna agree with you peacemaker. And I also believe that there won't be a draft. It's political suicide to have a draft, and all it creates is a crap army that doesn't do anywhere near as well as our current one does.

[JetRaiden]

If there was a draft, I think I'd go. But I'd rather go in the USMC then be some lowly Army grunt.

[Indecisive]

Yeah, if there was a draft (which there wont be, 152 to 2 against it or something like that) I would go, but I would be shot within a week im willing to bet >_>

[Mr1337Duck]

Oh ma goodness, saw pics of kittays, so cute.

[Kaltagesta]

And if you're forced to join the army - exactly what kind of freedom is it that you are defending?

[Infernus]

And if you're forced to join the army - exactly what kind of freedom is it that you are defending?

Compulsory military service isn't freedom...


As I said on IRC...

But the arguement is that we have a responsibility to fight for those freedom's...


I'm not saying I wouldn't, I very much so would... but in this war, a war of many uncertainties... will the efforts of the countless people drafted be in vain? Or will we just keep throwing our young people at something that cannot be won?

[Sputty]

Inf can get out of it easily though.

[DaShiznit]

Peacemaker, if Iraq had launched a massive offensive against the United States, and our very way of life was now threatened by Saddam Hussein's evil abitions, I would fight. If we were fighting WWII, I would fight. If we were fighting for our freedoms, I would fight. But we're not.

I am an avowed pacifist. War doesn't decide who is right, only who is left. I refuse to be shipped half a world away, to kill civilians who have done nothing to my country, just so you can drive your SUV.

To those of you who say that a draft is political suicide, for now, you are correct. But bear in mind, should, God forbid, Bush be re-elected, he will have nothing to keep him from proposing and signing a draft law, because another term would be impossible, and as such, he needen't worry about political suicide. People said the same thing when Vietnam had begun.

I'm with Kaltagesta and Infernus, the draft flies in the face of the central value that we hold as Americans: Freedom. If we are to truly preserve freedom, we must not allow for a draft. Whether it is through Draft-dodging or legislative action, we must stop it.

[Kaltagesta]

But bear in mind, should, God forbid, Bush be re-elected, he will have nothing to keep him from proposing and signing a draft law, because another term would be impossible, and as such, he needen't worry about political suicide.

What about congress?

[Everay]

Those who refuse to support and defend a state have no claim to protection by that state. Killing an anarchist or a pacifist should not be defined as "murder" in a legalistic sense. The offense against the state, if any, should be: "Using deadly weapons inside city limits," or "Creating a traffic hazard," or "Endangering bystanders," or other misdemeanor. However the state may reasonably place a closed season on these exotic animals whenever they are in danger of becoming extinct. ~ Lazarus Long,

as for the draft being a bad thing, they do it in Israel, they dont bitch, they do it proudly, sure, they have evil men knocking on their gates everyday (and before you start saying something about how Israel is in the wrong, let me remind you, anyone who bombs a bus full of children, is a evil man), but America isnt a Nation without its threats.

[Spee]

Haha, draft, fuck you. Im goin' to college.

[UncleDynamite]

Inf can get out of it easily though.

:lol: True

I do believe that there is a proposal for a draft ready when needed. However, last time I checked, it was a proposal made by Democrats asking for a draft that would cover a larger age group and both sexes. In other words, this proposal was made to be shot down so there would be no draft. But things might change. Anyway, the point is that at this point in time, instating a draft would be disasterous, no matter who wins the elections.

[Triggar]

Haha, draft, fuck you. Im goin' to college.

That won't be allowed this time around. Neither will fleeing to Canada or claiming to be a pacifist. They don't give a shit, they need bodies.

[Baneblade]

Just who is it you speak of Trig?

[Spee]

Fight for your freedom. Do not let all those who have died before you die in vein. It would be the most childish selfish thing in the whole world to run from the draft. JUST BECAUSE YOU DONT AGREE WITH THE WAR.

:rant:



Correct me if I'm wrong, but where there ties to Iraq with Osama? Did we find any weapons of mass destruction? Does Iraq have a capable ballics system?

Oh whats that? No, No, and no?

Well then, I dont see how I can feel bad if I dodge the draft, kiddo. Im not fighting for my freedom, as my freedom isn't being threatened.

And hell, if I dont agree with the war, why should I fight it? I dont even owe my Alleigance to the state, country, whatever - After I learned what the Pledge meant, I never said it again. And dont feed me a line of "you were born here, its your duty" Because I cant fucking help that.

Or maybe because I feel I could be far more beneficial alive and doing what I know how to do, instead of shooting at Ahmed in the dust storm of Iraq. I refuse to let a lifetime of education be put on the line because of some Megalomaniac's wet dream of perfecting the world.

However, thats how I feel, as an individual not allied to any particular government, state, or system.


Edit: Well Trig, I've got quite a few excuses up my sleeve. Yay, familial medical conditions.

[Rbstr]

What about congress?

both house and senate are republican controled remember

EDIT my connection went out again so the rest apperantly didn't get put up

but if i was drafted for somethign like fighting terroristin in afghanistan were we know they are there and it's been proven, or lets say iraq was a threat and had a missle system, and a big army moving to take over other countries(like Gulf V1.0x2 + missles, a threat like WW2 germany) i'd sure as hell go. But a war in iraq that we're only in because of a whole bunch of false evidense (not even enough to go if it was true in my oppinion) i'd do eveything i could to get out of it.

[Lartnev]

If America (and following that probably the entire Coalition) pull troops out of Iraq, the world would become a very dangerous place. Iraq is currently a power gap, you can tell because people who aren't from Iraq are trying to make themselves a name in Iraq by inciting fear.

We've stirred up a hornets nest in Iraq, we're the ones who have to try and keep whatever peace we can until Iraq has enough power to do it themselves (and they'd probably do it a lot better than we could).

As for the draft in the UK, I don't think we have one yet, there's currently talks about pulling up reserves and stuff to support the US troops in Baghdad and other hotspots. I just hope that they don't use the last national insurance letter as draft order..... guess what mine is :scared:

[Spee]

both house and senate are republican controled remember

EDIT my connection went out again so the rest apperantly didn't get put up

but if i was drafted for somethign like fighting terroristin in afghanistan were we know they are there and it's been proven, or lets say iraq was a threat and had a missle system, and a big army moving to take over other countries(like Gulf V1.0x2 + missles, a threat like WW2 germany) i'd sure as hell go. But a war in iraq that we're only in because of a whole bunch of false evidense (not even enough to go if it was true in my oppinion) i'd do eveything i could to get out of it.

Precisely. Id be mroe than willing to go, and fight for something that meant true saving of our freedom, but this is just a beauraucrat(sp) playing chess, so to speak.

[Mr1337Duck]

Keep your tinfoil hat tucked in your suitcase for this one, folks, Bush isn't gonna touch the draft, and neither will congress.

[DaShiznit]

Sure duckie. Suuuuuure he won't.

[SDM]

This thread sucks.

[Mr1337Duck]

The hat, take it off. Like him or not, Bush is not a crazed dictator who wants to go down in the history books as the next Adolf Hitler. I have yet to see secret police kicking down doors and dragging liberals off to camps. Show me some pics and I might believe you.

[JetRaiden]

you guys are overreacting. there isnt gonna be a draft.


Draft = national chaos

[Mag]

Someone needs to switch this into Pol. Debate.

[DaShiznit]

EDIT: On second thought, I now hate this thread and hope it dies. Lock or move plz.

[Indecisive]

The hat, take it off. Like him or not, Bush is not a crazed dictator who wants to go down in the history books as the next Adolf Hitler. I have yet to see secret police kicking down doors and dragging liberals off to camps. Show me some pics and I might believe you.

QFT

[Henya]

Haha, draft, fuck you. Im goin' to college.
That won't be allowed this time around. Neither will fleeing to Canada or claiming to be a pacifist. They don't give a shit, they need bodies.

How about going to college in canada

[Dharkbayne]

The hat, take it off. Like him or not, Bush is not a crazed dictator who wants to go down in the history books as the next Adolf Hitler. I have yet to see secret police kicking down doors and dragging liberals off to camps. Show me some pics and I might believe you.

http://img6.exs.cx/img6/8178/bushnazi.jpg

[Infernus]

Swastica Hands!

[AztecWarrior]

Well, this thread turned into the Tet Offensive pretty fast.

All I know is, that if I was 21 right now and I was called to Iraq, I would go.

I also know that the left-wing trumpetblowers have claimed that if John Kerry was elected, he would cure all the paraplegics (says Edwards), that if George Bush wins, there will be a massive draft to send teenagers to Iraq to get shot, etc., and the more radicalized ones claim that Bush and the Saudis are connected, etc.

Frankly, I'm tired of the people who believe that everyone who gets drafted goes to the Army, and everyone who gets drafted goes straight to the front line. There are other branches, and there are other divisions of the Army, like armor, aviation, etc.

I'm not saying that it's paradise over there, I'm saying that the casualty rate is nowhere near where it was in previous wars and that what is going on there is extremely exxagurated by people who don't want someone re-elected.

I love this draft debate- Bush will not bring back the draft. It would kill the entire party. The next Republican wouldn't be elected, we would hemhorrage seats in Congress in the next election, et cetera.

I also believe that this thread is going to be locked soon- nb4dalock.

[Dharkbayne]

enn

bee

four


dah


lawk

[Derfud]

exxagurated


:rofl:

Sorry, couldnt resist.

[Wraithlord]

Draft dodging....

For all those that would dodge the draft: FUCK YOU!

You live in a country where you are free to say and do as you please as long as it does not destroy a blury line of laws. You live in a country where thousands of people have lived and died to get you what you have. If you go and run away from a war because you are scared to die you are no better than the ones who want to destroy what we have. Fighting for what we have is what americans have ALWAYS done. We will not surivive if we do not fight.

People talk about peace being the only logical solution. Let me tell you this. Humanity as a race is a race of warriors. We were born into this world fighting. It is in our very nature to fight. You cannot run and hide from the truth, humanity is always and always be at war. You SHOULD be ready to fight, kill, and die for your country. The same very country that has given you so much. Do not be so foolish to say something like "But look what government has done to us!" What if we lived in a Soviet Russian controled United States? Then you would be saying nothing... because you would probably be dead for talking down about the government in the first place.

Fight for your freedom. Do not let all those who have died before you die in vein. It would be the most childish selfish thing in the whole world to run from the draft. JUST BECAUSE YOU DONT AGREE WITH THE WAR.

:rant:

^
Moron.

[Mag]

You understand the irony of that statement I'd hope.

[Infernus]

You understand the irony of that statement I'd hope.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Indeed... just remember... its always nice to elaborate...

[EarlyDawn]

I don't agree with what's going on in the Middle East, I think we're agitating what was a relatively small problem to us in Iraq, I will serve my country if it calls me.

HOWEVER, if I were faced with a draft, I'd probably join the Air Force. It's more suited to my interests: Science and Intelligence.

[AztecWarrior]

:rofl:

Sorry, couldnt resist.
FUCK! I MADE A TYPO!!!!!!! :mad:

[Everay]

ok, why would bush have a draft, and kerry not? because kerry will pull us out? because bush will get us into deeper shit? kerry says he wants 2 new divisions, yet redeploying our soldiers is a bad thing, and he wont do a draft to get those new divisions, bush, isnt sending more troops to iraq? why? because his generals on the scene are not asking for them, yet some civilian people are going around blabing about how we need more shit, but theyre not gonna instatute a draft but bush is.

[DaShiznit]

I also know that the left-wing trumpetblowers have claimed that if John Kerry was elected, he would cure all the paraplegics (says Edwards), that if George Bush wins, there will be a massive draft to send teenagers to Iraq to get shot, etc., and the more radicalized ones claim that Bush and the Saudis are connected, etc.
GOOGLE IMAGES PWNZ!
http://www.nyu.edu/globalbeat/jpg/bush-saudi.jpg
I think the hand holding really sells this one.

Oh, and IN BFORE DA LOCK!

[JetRaiden]

new PSU acronym:

IBFTL

[Dharkbayne]

SWASTIKA HANDS.

[Infernus]

SWASTIKA HANDS.




.

[Sputty]

Swastika Lasers

[Triggar]

and the more radicalized ones claim that Bush and the Saudis are connected

Google search "Arbusto Energy" - hell, here's a Wikepedia entry on them:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbusto_Energy

[Peacemaker]

Just to let you guys know. The fact that we did not find a gigantic nuclear bomb in the middle of iraq ready to blow NYC to atoms does not mean there was no threat. I HATE it when people are like "We didnt find anything so there was nothing to worry about so we shouldnt have gone there."

Two points:

1. How were we supposed to know that in the first place? Id rather be invading than taking a chance of having 50 million people die in an atomic blast.

2. How are we to garuntee that the asshole wouldnt have the capability by say next year? It isnt THAT hard to go nuclear these days. Hell... you dont even NEED a nuke. What if the god damn lunatics went Biological or Chemical on us? THEN we would be fucked nice and hard.

You cant just say "We didnt find anything so we shouldnt have gone." THe chance that he DID or in the future COULD have something is too great.

[1024]

Congress would never give it the go.

[OneManArmy]

North Korea's acting pretty fucking crazy lately... we should go blow them up..... think about it, now adays when i log onto gunbound I dont see any more koreans... its mostly brazilians and what not.... whY? all the koreans are getting ready for a war!! its true i tell you.... :D


oh and draft = me joining the airforce, because if Counter-Strike is any indication of my terrorist fighting abilities... I'm gonna step off the plane and get shot in the head.....

[SDM]

IBTL

http://img97.exs.cx/img97/7862/centipedes.gif

[Dharkbayne]

We've raised the terror level to BLACKWATCH PLAID!

[Hamma]

Draft dodging....

For all those that would dodge the draft: FUCK YOU!

You live in a country where you are free to say and do as you please as long as it does not destroy a blury line of laws. You live in a country where thousands of people have lived and died to get you what you have. If you go and run away from a war because you are scared to die you are no better than the ones who want to destroy what we have. Fighting for what we have is what americans have ALWAYS done. We will not surivive if we do not fight.

People talk about peace being the only logical solution. Let me tell you this. Humanity as a race is a race of warriors. We were born into this world fighting. It is in our very nature to fight. You cannot run and hide from the truth, humanity is always and always be at war. You SHOULD be ready to fight, kill, and die for your country. The same very country that has given you so much. Do not be so foolish to say something like "But look what government has done to us!" What if we lived in a Soviet Russian controled United States? Then you would be saying nothing... because you would probably be dead for talking down about the government in the first place.

Fight for your freedom. Do not let all those who have died before you die in vein. It would be the most childish selfish thing in the whole world to run from the draft. JUST BECAUSE YOU DONT AGREE WITH THE WAR.

:rant:
I agree 110%

People who leave the country to skip the draft are cowards and should be deported to said country asap.

Pussies.
^
Moron.
Nice troll there.

Please do us all a favor and don't fucking post if you are going to be an idiot.

[Everay]

You live in a country where thousands of people have lived and died to get you what you have.

to be more precise, its a little under 1 million people, 1 million Soldiers, Sailors, Marines and Airmen, and to run away now is a disgrace to all of them

[Incompetent]

People talk about peace being the only logical solution. Let me tell you this. Humanity as a race is a race of warriors. We were born into this world fighting. It is in our very nature to fight. You cannot run and hide from the truth, humanity is always and always [will] be at war.
QFT

The outlook of "Violence never solves anything" is one of the most monumentally stupid things anyone has ever thought up.

[DaShiznit]

Whoa. Can we please get some luv in this thread? Too much hatin'. Oh, and I cannot believe this hasn't been locked yet.

[oddfish]

wow. i've been out of the loop for several days now. sorry guys.

anyways-- as far as a draft is concerned. i honestly don't know what the fuck i would do if there was one, but, in all honesty, there just simply won't be one. there won't... i hope. :scared:

[OneManArmy]

why you'd take up your sunshine butterfly shootin bazooka and spread some love to those terrorist sumnabitches.... :D

[Pilgrim]

Simple truth

Re-enlistment is at an all time high.

The draft bill that was sponsored was put down 402-2 in the house.

If the Re-up is so bad then how is Kerry going to raise 2 new divisions?

Both Canidates have openly stated no-draft.

This is a stupid internet rumor that people believed (just like Bill Gates will send you $100 if you forward this e-mail) And the real problem is it's a stupid internet rumor that a presidential canidate believes.

If there ever is a draft it is the DUTY of a citizen to go if called. If you wish to be a citizen, then be willing to be drafted. Anything else is a disgrace to yourself.

Don't listen to Trig.. Nice kid but as much of a partisan hack as you'll ever meet. She's our Liberal Vichio! Anything she says must be taken with a grain of "I Hate Bush No Matter What" Salt.

And always remember that if the facts do not substantiate the theory then the theory is wrong. There will be no draft. (But then again I'm 31 so I wouldn't be drafted anyway... if it got to that point I'd volunteer.)

[OneManArmy]

:stupid: :nod: :love:

[Triggar]

Don't listen to Trig.. Nice kid but as much of a partisan hack as you'll ever meet. She's our Liberal Vichio! Anything she says must be taken with a grain of "I Hate Bush No Matter What" Salt.

Well, I never said that there would be a draft - I urged people to think about the logistics of what's happening now. I'm not dumb enough to make a broad-faced claim like that, but it is something that we should think about as we challenge the things that both candidates are saying. How ARE they going to execute these plans? One of the logistical details that I haven't figured out yet is how are they logically going to fill the demand for more troops if the reservists and the volunteer army is depleted? It's certainly something to think about.

Also, I take offense to being called the Liberal Vicchio! I actually read people's posts and articles and I admit it when I'm wrong. If you present me with a truth about John Kerry that I had been mislead about, I'm more than willing to accept the new facts about the candidate that I support rather than pretending they don't exist in order to make my own decision that much simpler.

Take me with a grain of salt - PLEASE. There hasn't been NEARLY enough salt-taking lately - and I urge EVERYONE to take the things they hear on "bipartisan" news networks or newspapers with a grain of salt. Please.

[/rant] :p

[Dharkbayne]

Also, I take offense to being called the Liberal Vicchio!

Quiet, you partisan HACK.

[Everay]

ive said it three times over this thread, if the only way bush is gonna get his troops is through a draft, then how is kerry getting his 2 new divisions?

[Dharkbayne]

I say we conscript hobos. Their thick skin from sleeping outside should surely stop small arms fire, and they are so numerous that when we kicked them out of the planes, they would easily block out the sun.

[Everay]

it was a rehtorical question. i wanted to make you think, heres a little info

Below is a Division type, and amount of men in it. kerry says he wants one support division added, and one offensive type division.

Airborne Division--------------13,242
Air Assault Division ------------15,840
Armored Division --------------17,756
Mechanized Division -----------17,982
Light Infantry Division ---------11,036
Corps-Support Command --------22,410

a support division, i guess he means Corps-Support Command, would be 22,410 new soldiers, and a new offensive division would be anywhere from 11,000 - 17,000 new soldiers, so that grand total is between 33,410 and 39,410. America, under Bush right now is adding 10,000 soldiers (i think). big difference aint it? so how is kerry going to avoid a draft when hes also saying that under bush there will be one? if bush is wanting fewer new troops?

now i will admit, if it was up to me, id add 1/2 of the current millitary strength onto itself, and beef the spending more, but thats me, because i belive in a strong military.

[Baneblade]

Kerry won't have a problem getting his two divisions with no draft, which unfortunately for him makes him look like a panderer for saying Bush needed a draft to keep the troops we have.

[Triggar]

Politics.

Can't find the perfect person for the job.

Can't do away with the system.