Lise
2004-10-27, 06:45 AM
Crossposted from Planetside.com
Alright, I think BFRs are a wicked sick idea. On several levels, heavy walking assault vehicles make so much sense that it's a wonder they weren't included with the initial release. Their armament seems fairly right too - going up against a heavy assault vehicle, any other single unit in the game should expect to lose. BFRs alone do not ruin Planetside - what is currently hurting the game to a great extent is the implementation of the BFR's defenses.
As Sam stated in a recent post (http://psforums.station.sony.com/ps/board/message?board.id=psdiscussion&message.id=354328#M354328), BFRs have a shield of 2700 HP and an armor rating from 3000HP to 5000HP. This is fairly in line with other vehicles - until, that is, you factor in the recharge rate of the BFR shield. That recharge rate is something on the order of 200 or more hit points per second - it's enough to render soldier-borne AV useless, even in fair quantities, and Sam said himself (http://psforums.station.sony.com/ps/board/message?board.id=psdiscussion&message.id=356082#M356082) that it takes two clips (presumably of 100% accuracy) of dual AV BFR weaponry - the strongest AV weaponry in the game, mind - to wear down a BFR's shields. This means that, essentially, instead of having a few thousand points of shield armor, the BFRs are possessed of thousands of points of HP from their shields... and depending on the situation and how well they can dodge fire or get a break from fire, they have tens of thousands, or even HUNDREDS of thousands of HP, with a possibility of infinite HP. Not only that, but this is on a generally one-man vehicle - whereas two people are needed to field a tank, those same two people can purchase a BFR each and field triple, if not more, the firepower of the tank while possessing vastly greater survivability. These shields render any other attack vehicle completely obsolete.
Kill the shield generator, you say. In a 1 BFR situation with about 4 or 5 infantry, I'd agree with you. That's not how it's working in practice, however. BFRs are appearing in groups of 5 or 6 or more - that's more than enough to effectively cover their fellows. Indeed, with multiple BFRs, you get weapons MIXING. A team of 6 BFRs, with an even mix of AV, AA, and AI weaponry, can lay waste to an entire infantry platoon (a full 30 man platoon) in two minutes flat. If they're all AI, it's a matter of seconds. And they are more than capable of covering one another from harm. Not only that, but this is with the baseline BFRs. Once the flight and gunner variants start predominating - and in a week or two here, they will - then either the gunner's 360 degree turret can cover the BFR, or the BFR can simply leap several hundred meters away from the source of its problems. Unless the pilots and gunners in any of the above situations are BLITHERING idiots, those shield gens are not going to fail.
Phalanx Turrets, you say, those bullets go right though the shield. The turrets do work well when they aren't under fire (I managed to smoke an Aphelion that was focused on other matters with a Phalanx tonight and seriously damaged several others), but as Sam has said, they're underarmored (http://psforums.station.sony.com/ps/board/message?board.id=psdiscussion&message.id=356082#M356082) and most BFR pilots are sharp enough to kill the turrets as soon as they assault a base. Cloakers with boomers, you say, a quad of boomers will waste a BFR. Well, a pretty decent number of BFR pilots have sharp eyes, and can spot a running cloaker. Not only that, but BFRs are usually accompanied by a few infantry, who will probably spot a cloaker doing his thing at the feet of a BFR that is immobile. (Especially since they usually go immoble during base/tower camps, you can expect some infantry.) Finally, ever since BFR Mayhem, a good number of BFR pilots are sharp enough to not stand still in a situation where there might be enemy cloakers about - your chances for finding a BFR with his pants down are slim.
Liberator bombspam, you say, if anything has enough raw ownage to bring down that shield it's ten bombs from a Lib. Well, at the higher altitudes BFRs have enough lead time to strafe-dodge bombs, and at the ranges where you could get right over one without missing, you're at short range for the BFRs and very operable range for everything else. Reaverspam, you say, pile enough Reavers on to ANY problem and it'll go away. Again, versus one BFR that might work, but in the BFR squads currently operating, the Reavers would be cut down or forced to withdraw after a single pass, especially if the BFR group has more than one dedicated AA BFR. Mosquitos, you say, it has a 12mm - well, it does and it might manage to disable the shield gen on one BFR, the AA BFRs of the group - heck, the AA MAXes or Skyguards on the ground - will eat a Mossie for lunch. Again, unless the pilots are either braindead or linkdead, air power does not present an appreciable threat to BFRs.
So. Infantry alone is basically ineffectual against BFR groups, they already waste ground attack vehicles with prejudice, Phalanx turrets can't hack it, cloakers can't effectively fight a moving BFR, and air power is very sketchy, if at all effective. That leaves one thing: massed firepower from everything. During the BFR Mayhem event, I lost only one BFR to enemy fire. This was an Aphelion I used during an assault on Xelas on Amerish. I decided to try and "lead" a BFR charge into the enemy line - a mistake, to be sure. I had something on the order of half a dozen Peregrines (all or nearly all armed AV, seemingly), several Lightnings, at least one Phalanx turret, and several (at least) Phoenix users all attacking me at once. Even then, my BFR held on for nearly a minute before exploding. That kind of firepower would have destroyed a Magrider in seconds. Heck, that mass of ownage would have smoked several Magriders in the same time frame as my BFR lasted. It took that much firepower to easily down a single BFR.
So concentrated BFR fire - with what help other units can provide - seems to be the only really effective way of downing a competent BFR pilot. Even then, two clips to down the shield probably assumes full accuracy, and unless you're point blank with one another that won't happen - especially if one or both are flight variants. Even BFRs have difficulty killing each other. And every bit of it is that blasted shield - or should I say, the blasted recharge of that shield. (You also have orbital strikes, but those are available once an hour to select individuals - not overly useful for something which respawns faster than that and is potentially available to everyone with less work than is required for CR5.)
As I stated previously, the overall numbers for the BFR's hit points seem fairly sensible. The shield recharge rate, however, gives a BFR far more shield HP that you would otherwise believe. The reasoning for this is, on some level, easy enough to understand - BFR's are *large* targets. They will, inevitably, draw the majority of fire from a base or an attacking force once they make their presense known. They must be capable of taking some heat if they're going to be at all effective. However, in a game that is based almost entirely on teamwork, a generally single-pilot vehicle has, in my humble opinion, no business possessing both greater firepower AND vastly superior survivability compared to a two-man battle tank - even when the certification of said tank is a requirement to use the single-pilot vehicle. Even with a 45 minute reuse timer, even with a *90* minute reuse timer, the vehicle will last long enough for the pilot to grab another one if/when his first one is destroyed. We have two options then: reduce the firepower they possess, or reduce their defensive capabilities. I've stated previously that I think the armament, as it is, is fine: there is a place in Planetside for heavy assault vehicles that can break the core of an enemy assault or defense, and mobile walking vehicles work beautifully for this. They should not be capable of taking to the face vastly more firepower than they can dish out, however. So, the shield generator needs to be changed rather drastically.
Alright, I think BFRs are a wicked sick idea. On several levels, heavy walking assault vehicles make so much sense that it's a wonder they weren't included with the initial release. Their armament seems fairly right too - going up against a heavy assault vehicle, any other single unit in the game should expect to lose. BFRs alone do not ruin Planetside - what is currently hurting the game to a great extent is the implementation of the BFR's defenses.
As Sam stated in a recent post (http://psforums.station.sony.com/ps/board/message?board.id=psdiscussion&message.id=354328#M354328), BFRs have a shield of 2700 HP and an armor rating from 3000HP to 5000HP. This is fairly in line with other vehicles - until, that is, you factor in the recharge rate of the BFR shield. That recharge rate is something on the order of 200 or more hit points per second - it's enough to render soldier-borne AV useless, even in fair quantities, and Sam said himself (http://psforums.station.sony.com/ps/board/message?board.id=psdiscussion&message.id=356082#M356082) that it takes two clips (presumably of 100% accuracy) of dual AV BFR weaponry - the strongest AV weaponry in the game, mind - to wear down a BFR's shields. This means that, essentially, instead of having a few thousand points of shield armor, the BFRs are possessed of thousands of points of HP from their shields... and depending on the situation and how well they can dodge fire or get a break from fire, they have tens of thousands, or even HUNDREDS of thousands of HP, with a possibility of infinite HP. Not only that, but this is on a generally one-man vehicle - whereas two people are needed to field a tank, those same two people can purchase a BFR each and field triple, if not more, the firepower of the tank while possessing vastly greater survivability. These shields render any other attack vehicle completely obsolete.
Kill the shield generator, you say. In a 1 BFR situation with about 4 or 5 infantry, I'd agree with you. That's not how it's working in practice, however. BFRs are appearing in groups of 5 or 6 or more - that's more than enough to effectively cover their fellows. Indeed, with multiple BFRs, you get weapons MIXING. A team of 6 BFRs, with an even mix of AV, AA, and AI weaponry, can lay waste to an entire infantry platoon (a full 30 man platoon) in two minutes flat. If they're all AI, it's a matter of seconds. And they are more than capable of covering one another from harm. Not only that, but this is with the baseline BFRs. Once the flight and gunner variants start predominating - and in a week or two here, they will - then either the gunner's 360 degree turret can cover the BFR, or the BFR can simply leap several hundred meters away from the source of its problems. Unless the pilots and gunners in any of the above situations are BLITHERING idiots, those shield gens are not going to fail.
Phalanx Turrets, you say, those bullets go right though the shield. The turrets do work well when they aren't under fire (I managed to smoke an Aphelion that was focused on other matters with a Phalanx tonight and seriously damaged several others), but as Sam has said, they're underarmored (http://psforums.station.sony.com/ps/board/message?board.id=psdiscussion&message.id=356082#M356082) and most BFR pilots are sharp enough to kill the turrets as soon as they assault a base. Cloakers with boomers, you say, a quad of boomers will waste a BFR. Well, a pretty decent number of BFR pilots have sharp eyes, and can spot a running cloaker. Not only that, but BFRs are usually accompanied by a few infantry, who will probably spot a cloaker doing his thing at the feet of a BFR that is immobile. (Especially since they usually go immoble during base/tower camps, you can expect some infantry.) Finally, ever since BFR Mayhem, a good number of BFR pilots are sharp enough to not stand still in a situation where there might be enemy cloakers about - your chances for finding a BFR with his pants down are slim.
Liberator bombspam, you say, if anything has enough raw ownage to bring down that shield it's ten bombs from a Lib. Well, at the higher altitudes BFRs have enough lead time to strafe-dodge bombs, and at the ranges where you could get right over one without missing, you're at short range for the BFRs and very operable range for everything else. Reaverspam, you say, pile enough Reavers on to ANY problem and it'll go away. Again, versus one BFR that might work, but in the BFR squads currently operating, the Reavers would be cut down or forced to withdraw after a single pass, especially if the BFR group has more than one dedicated AA BFR. Mosquitos, you say, it has a 12mm - well, it does and it might manage to disable the shield gen on one BFR, the AA BFRs of the group - heck, the AA MAXes or Skyguards on the ground - will eat a Mossie for lunch. Again, unless the pilots are either braindead or linkdead, air power does not present an appreciable threat to BFRs.
So. Infantry alone is basically ineffectual against BFR groups, they already waste ground attack vehicles with prejudice, Phalanx turrets can't hack it, cloakers can't effectively fight a moving BFR, and air power is very sketchy, if at all effective. That leaves one thing: massed firepower from everything. During the BFR Mayhem event, I lost only one BFR to enemy fire. This was an Aphelion I used during an assault on Xelas on Amerish. I decided to try and "lead" a BFR charge into the enemy line - a mistake, to be sure. I had something on the order of half a dozen Peregrines (all or nearly all armed AV, seemingly), several Lightnings, at least one Phalanx turret, and several (at least) Phoenix users all attacking me at once. Even then, my BFR held on for nearly a minute before exploding. That kind of firepower would have destroyed a Magrider in seconds. Heck, that mass of ownage would have smoked several Magriders in the same time frame as my BFR lasted. It took that much firepower to easily down a single BFR.
So concentrated BFR fire - with what help other units can provide - seems to be the only really effective way of downing a competent BFR pilot. Even then, two clips to down the shield probably assumes full accuracy, and unless you're point blank with one another that won't happen - especially if one or both are flight variants. Even BFRs have difficulty killing each other. And every bit of it is that blasted shield - or should I say, the blasted recharge of that shield. (You also have orbital strikes, but those are available once an hour to select individuals - not overly useful for something which respawns faster than that and is potentially available to everyone with less work than is required for CR5.)
As I stated previously, the overall numbers for the BFR's hit points seem fairly sensible. The shield recharge rate, however, gives a BFR far more shield HP that you would otherwise believe. The reasoning for this is, on some level, easy enough to understand - BFR's are *large* targets. They will, inevitably, draw the majority of fire from a base or an attacking force once they make their presense known. They must be capable of taking some heat if they're going to be at all effective. However, in a game that is based almost entirely on teamwork, a generally single-pilot vehicle has, in my humble opinion, no business possessing both greater firepower AND vastly superior survivability compared to a two-man battle tank - even when the certification of said tank is a requirement to use the single-pilot vehicle. Even with a 45 minute reuse timer, even with a *90* minute reuse timer, the vehicle will last long enough for the pilot to grab another one if/when his first one is destroyed. We have two options then: reduce the firepower they possess, or reduce their defensive capabilities. I've stated previously that I think the armament, as it is, is fine: there is a place in Planetside for heavy assault vehicles that can break the core of an enemy assault or defense, and mobile walking vehicles work beautifully for this. They should not be capable of taking to the face vastly more firepower than they can dish out, however. So, the shield generator needs to be changed rather drastically.