Halo 2 ending discusion

[Jaged]

WARNING: Spoilers ahead.... obviously












I just finished the game on co-op with my friend and holy shit did that ending suck. I was all pumped up and ready to take control of MC on the forerunner ship when it just cut out. Also, after the credits, what was that clip with the strange tentacle beast talking to cortana? Any ideas as to what that was about?

[Fragmatic]

tentacle rape.

[Rbstr]

methinks there will be a halo 3, the end is just too cliff hangery

[Jaged]

Well of course there is going to be a halo 3. I just dont wanna wait. :(

[Heavygain]

Of couse you dont want to wait, does anyone want to wait?

[Octavian]

Once you really start to think about it the ending makes sense.

Oh and that plant thing is Gravemind, something to do with the Flood.

[Everay]

that ending, was, not crappy, but it was, awesome, but sucked all at the same time.

the tentical thing, if i was to guess was the father type dude of the flood, sort of like that woman in first contact was the leader of the borg. but i like frags suggestion too.

[Mango]

I was just waiting for Rick Moranis to randomly appear and the Gravemind to bust out and start singing about wanting to be fed.

[2Seksy4MyModem]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/2Seksy/audrey6.jpg

Oh noes!


But yeah, I didn't like the end that much. It just left too much to the next game that could have been solved in this. At the begining you have earth under attack and a ring that's going to be activated. At the end you have earth under attack, and about a dozen rings ready to be activated.

Also I'm kinda disappointed that I beat it in less than 2 days and have to wait for halo 3 =/ Guess its time for legendary

[Atog]

i'm crossing my figers that you get a more complete ending with legendary :|

[Lonehunter]

The tentacles were like the Flood God, remember when Spartan117 and the Arbiter where talking to him?

Now, what he wants to do with Cortana is beyond me, maybe she'll turn and be like Kerrigan in Starcraft.

[Everay]

doubt it, but i did notice that, i thought he looked quite a bit like the plant from the little shop of horrors.

my bro bought the strategy guide, i dont know why, but it did proove useful at the end, it said, "how will we find out what happens to cortana, and master cheif? we will just have to wait." but it also said that on legendary some of the cutscenes in the game are different, or totaly replaced, so playing on legendary will reveal stuff

[Atog]

I beat it on co-op, and my brother turned off the x-box during the credits, so i missed the whole little shop of horrors guy meets cortana thing. Anyone feel like filling me in?
Thanks

[Doop]

I beat it on co-op, and my brother turned off the x-box during the credits, so i missed the whole little shop of horrors guy meets cortana thing. Anyone feel like filling me in?
Thanks

"This grave is very silent now, ever since I've gone.
But I am far from dead, my voice still lives on.
I will ask, you will answer..." says Gravemind (big tentacly beast).

Cortana says "Yeah. Shoot."

end. WTF?
Also, Guiltyspark says the "ark". Wonder what that is.

I've heard a theory, Gravemind is Keyes. He was floodified in H1, remember? He could have hitched a ride on a Covie ship and rooted himself in Delta halo. Another thing, he can teleport.

[Octavian]

GS means that the Ark is the main control room where the rest of the Halo's can be activated all at once. So basically it looks like it is either Reach or Earth where it's located.

[WritheNC]

There are 7 Halos, each one with an index.

If anyone can remember Jesus mentioning in the bible holding 7 stars in one hand and 7 candlesticks in the other? I don't know which passage exactly that is.

The Ark is a (supposedly)safe place from the Flood. Most people believe the Ark is the Forerunner ship, while others believe the ark is on earth or it IS earth(which is a stretch, but this is Science fiction after all).

When the MC first sees Gravemind, Cortana says, "What is that?" Gravemind replies, "I? I am a monument to all your sins."

I think the Forerunners sought something with their technology that is not possible, probably immortality. In trying to attain this, they created the Flood through experiment, and it spread. Seeing as they could not contain or destroy it, they created the Halos to wipe out all sentient life and prevent the Flood from spreading throughout the galaxy. Gravemind is a monument to their sin of greed for unattainable power, for he is the final ultimate result of their work(which I'm guessing is achieving immortality so all beings of their race would live forever).

Gravemind cannot be Capt. Keyes because the only reason Gravemind can teleport is because he has control of 2041 Penitent Tangent. 343 Guilty Spark would not have teleported a Flood off Halo because he is programmed to stop them, and there was no Flood as powerful as Gravemind that would have subverted him.

"Silence fills the empty grave, now that I have gone. But my mind is not at rest, for questions linger on. I will ask, and you will answer." is what Gravemind says at the end.

If he can control 2041 Penitent Tangent, then he might be able to even subvert Cortana. It is likely this would be his goal since he also realizes that she is the production of Humans, which are "Reclaimers"(The only ones who can activate the Halos). Thus, he must kill them all to let nothing stop the Flood from spreading across the galaxy.

"Fate had us meet as foes, but this ring will make us brothers." This is likely just Gravemind lying to buy time to get Miranda's ship. If he had said "but this ring will make YOU brothers." then I can foresee him prophesizing something between the Sangheili(Elites) and Humanity. He is extremely ancient and powerful, so I would expect it.

The ending sucked ass, of course. I can only hope that they pulled a Back to the Future 2&3(Or Matrix Reloaded/Revolutions if you have bad taste in movies) and were developing Halo 3 at the same time they were making 2.

I'm sure Halo 3 will have lots of Flood, more Covenant civil war(Grunts, Elites, Hunters and even Humans vs. Brutes, Prophets, Jackals, and the new flying aliens).

[LimpBIT]

What are those flying aliens called anyway. The marines refer to them as buggers.

Edit: doh this is jaged, forgot to log off of my friends account.

[Atog]

Gravemind: Official Name?
Gravemind: What is he? Flood? or not?
2041 Penitent Tangent-what's that?
Why can Gravemind hear Cortana? I was always under the impression that she spoke to MC hammer in a semitelepathic way, not through like speakers.

[Doop]

They're called drones.

2401 Penitent Tangent (not 2041) is the monitor (much like Guiltyspark) of the Halo you're on in Halo 2 (Delta Halo). He glows red instead of blue.

[Mag]

Also, 2401/7 = 343. Interesting tid-bit.

[Lonehunter]

It's a game, not a bible

2401 Penitent Tangent is the monitor of the Halo you're on in Halo 2 . He glows red instead of blue.
Glowed Yellow for me

[EarlyDawn]

When the MC first sees Gravemind, Cortana says, "What is that?" Gravemind replies, "I? I am a monument to all your sins."I'm not done yet (just got grabbed by this afformentioned "gravemind"), but that says a lot.

It would seem like the ancient races (Forerunner, Flood) lack the ability to tell Humans apart from Forerunner. Thus, I'm hypothesizing that Gravemind thinks Chief is a Forerunner, and is implying that the Forerunner actually created the Flood.

The question is, why? The Forerunner seemed to be a fairly stable race, overall, although their technology (seen in Covenent Tech. All Covie tech is adapted or directly taken from FR.) has a military feel to it. Thus, I'm prone to believe the Forerunners were Fighting against a Fifth, unknown race.

The Flood was created by the Forerunner as a "Final Solution" weapon for the war. The Flood probably won the surface wars for them, but began to spread slowly and unstoppably. In the horror of realising what they'd done, they began to scorch worlds (Covenant "Glassing" Heavy Energy Weapons) in hopes of containing the flood. The facilities where the Flood were created were retrofitted with equipment to destroy anything organic within 25,000 Lightyears. Such an abomination must never leave the Forerunner galaxy. They also created the Monitors, so that should they fail, the galaxy would be wiped clean.

The central control center (Arc) was built on earth. It's purpose was twofold: To set off all the Halos, and protect those inside. The ring network within our galaxy was obviously set off at some point. Prehaps those forerunner stuck inside for countless eons while new atmospheres formed became almost tribal, and began colonizing Earth. This explains both why Humans began on Earth, and why we're frequently misidentified as Forerunner.

The only enigma is the Covenant. Assuming they originated in our galaxy (this is likely, considering they lack innovation), it is possible that they too, have an Ark. Prehaps the Covenant forefather race was the group at war with the Forerunner. It begs some questions, however: Where is the "Alpha Covenant" technology? Did they have a Halo grid of their own?

It is hypothetically possible that the Alpha Covenant race was so harshly exterminated, that no technology remained, and their species totally destroyed in the first detonation.

Just my thoughts.

[Everay]

i like lones idea that this isnt a bible, but i gotta say that there have often been games with deep and tangled stories before. your questions early, i think are irrelivent, simply because your going out on a limb to even come to those questions. i belive that grapevine is the master flood dude, and that the forerunners made the flood, and that humans, quite possibly, are the decendants of the forerunners. where the covies come from, well, its possible that they just evolved after the rings were set off the first time, and they were, it was the floating talking AI blue dude that said something like "1.2 trillion simulations 1 actual" he was talking about setting off the rings that is.

[Jaged]

But if the rings went off how did the flood survive on the orignal halo ring?

[Octavian]

The rings don't necessarily have to make a huge explosion. It's possible that they emit some gas or toxin that spreads throughout the galaxy, killing off all sentient life. Remember, "The only way to kill the Flood, is to starve them to death." - Cortana

[xmodum]

I just finished H2 at my friends house, played all day. Holy fucking christ. This game rocked, it was kinda short, though. My thoughts on the "Gravemind" is that he was the god of the flood, but didnt know what was going on in the galaxy, that is why he was going to ask Cortana about whatever. I'm not going to get real deep into the story line like Early did, but I do like some of the things he suggested.

The only thing I regret the Halo2 creators doing is not giving us the ablility to drive a "Scarab", that would have fucking rocked so much Giant-covanent-vehicle ass!

[cyberkiller]

The only thing I regret the Halo2 creators doing is not giving us the ablility to drive a "Scarab", that would have fucking rocked so much Giant-covanent-vehicle ass!

would you like a super huge human top-secret battlecruiser to wipe out the covie fleet like nothing too?? :rolleyes:

[xmodum]

would you like a super huge human top-secret battlecruiser to wipe out the covie fleet like nothing too?? :rolleyes:

Would you like my shotgun shoved up your ass and buck-fire tear your insides apart?

[Infernus]

Drive a scarab? Notice the large crew it took to control the one you had to board...

[Octavian]

Actually most of that was for defence, a scarab only requires 2 Elites to drive so therefore it should only require 1 Spartan to drive it.

[WritheNC]

It's a game, not a bible

True, but the parallels are undeniable. There's more but I'm not going to dig.

Actually most of that was for defence, a scarab only requires 2 Elites to drive so therefore it should only require 1 Spartan to drive it.

Sargeant Johnson drove one by himself at the end.

[Octavian]

No, I'm talking about the Master Chief. If it requires 2 Elites to drive it then it should only require 1 Spartan to drive it.

Johnson has Borene's (sp) Syndrome, if it can change his nervous system, thus rendering him immune to the Flood who knows what else it did to him? I mean GS was thrown pretty hard at his head in the game and then you see him getting back up a second later.

[Jaged]

Yeah that mission sucked. I thought I was going get to pilot that scarab and I nearly wet myself. Then that ass hole shows up and leaves me with a damn banshe.

[Octavian]

Banshee's are good if you know how to use them. I've managed to successfully drop from my Banshee and board another about 200ft from the ground. Twice in fact.

[Lonehunter]

True, but the parallels are undeniable.
Quite deniable for me, if one dug into enough history the actions in Halo 2 could be compared to just about any major happenings of the past. A good example would be the Civil War and the Heretics, same basis of events but I don't think that because America had a civil war Bungi made the Covenant split and have Heretics

[Jaged]

Banshee's are good if you know how to use them. I've managed to successfully drop from my Banshee and board another about 200ft from the ground. Twice in fact.
Banshees own. I just wanted to drive that scarab.

[Octavian]

And own everything that comes in your way?

I remember the first time I saw Johnson driving that, I landed my Banshee on it and discovered that I couldn't get inside with him. :(

[Mango]

Prediction: The Forerunners are actually the ancestors of the human race. That would explain why this "Ark" is on Earth. It also explains why Guilty Spark calls the Master Cheif a "Reclaimer" and not the Covenant. Guilty Spark recognized the Master Cheif as a memeber of the race that created the rings and thought he was there to set things right. I believe the Forerunners activated the rings and wiped themselves out, almost. Some of the Forerunners survived somehow and became what are now humans.

[Electrofreak]

The ending bothered me to be certain... I was all expecting another level to load up after that cutscene until the ending credits started rolling. Leaving us on a cliffhanger knowing that the next game won't be released for another few years seems a bit heartless of Bungie. Actually, I'm guessing that Microsoft is behind that somewhere, I wouldn't doubt that they asked Bungie to do it in order to boost the sales of Halo 3 when it comes out. (How could you NOT get Halo 3 with that kind of ending?!)

Anyhow, loved the rest of the game, and while it seemed a bit short overall, watching the Limited Collectors Edition DVD and the whole "Making of Halo 2" video sort of helped me realize how hard pressed the guys at Bungie were to get the game out in the time frame they were given. I wouldn't be surprised if they had plans for the campaign to be a bit longer and the ending a bit less harsh but simply ran out of time. Anyhow, kudos to Bungie on a great game... I just hope the next one doesn't have an ending that hits you like a slap in the face.

[Everay]

yea, thats true too electro, those dudes went through alot to put that game together for us, and it shows in the behind the scenes, and could have ran out of time, but also, 1.5 millions x 50 dollars, theyre rich.

but its like LOTR part one, its ending sucked too, it ended, and everyone was like, wtf? why end here, and its because its a epic story that has a ways to finish, another example is when they show Braveheart on TV, they dont show it all in one night, no, they show it in two nights and cut it down the middle, why? because its a friggin long movie, same with the 10 commandments, long ass movie.

[Lonehunter]

Actually, I'm guessing that Microsoft is behind that somewhere,
Exactly what my buds and I thought



Edit: I wouldn't be surprised if Bungie had a great story with a longer game but Microsoft told them there's gonna be a trilogy and to shorten Halo 2 a bit and stretch the story to fit into 3 games, damn it.

[Jaged]

And own everything that comes in your way?

I remember the first time I saw Johnson driving that, I landed my Banshee on it and discovered that I couldn't get inside with him. :(Yup me too.

[Biohazzard56]

The only thing I was dissapointed in, is the New Mombassa scene from E3 2003, Was Changed, since its been more than a year and a half since weve seen it, it seemed like it was going to happen but, Id like to have that sense of desperateness when the covenent decided to invade earth. But overall the Clever people at bungie made a well crafted sequel to the #1 Xbox Game. I Loved how the Halo 2 story tied into the First Strike novel.

[WritheNC]

Actually I heard that Bungie will not be making Halo 3 right away. Bungie wanted to make games other than Halo, and had a deal with microsoft they could after they finished Halo 2. Apparently their next project is called "Phoenix."

[Infernus]

The only thing I was dissapointed in, is the New Mombassa scene from E3 2003, Was Changed, since its been more than a year and a half since weve seen it, it seemed like it was going to happen but, Id like to have that sense of desperateness when the covenent decided to invade earth. But overall the Clever people at bungie made a well crafted sequel to the #1 Xbox Game. I Loved how the Halo 2 story tied into the First Strike novel.

A few seens were changed... New Mombassa, the Jump from Cairo to the Carrier... What I didn't like is that no one seemed too worried over the whole covenant invasion. Lord Hood just kept passing out his medals then they talk all nice for a bit, then its like "Oh right the covenant... battlestations I suppose..."

[EarlyDawn]

Quite deniable for me, if one dug into enough history the actions in Halo 2 could be compared to just about any major happenings of the past. A good example would be the Civil War and the Heretics, same basis of events but I don't think that because America had a civil war Bungi made the Covenant split and have HereticsIf you don't have anything to contribute to a storyline discussion, don't post ***. :love:

And yeah, the redesigned New Mombasa scene sucked. I liked the old "drive through the streets" concept.

Nobody seemed that concerned about the invasion, that's true.. :doh: :rolleyes:

[Neon Apocalypse]

I just finished and tbh the game rocked, it seemed short but take a look at how many levels there are.

Earth is without a doubt the place of the Ark, otherwise the covenant wouldn't be trying to take it.

Its been only a few days since the game has been out and now we're anxiously awaiting halo 3.

[EarlyDawn]

Last out question for everyone. This may seem a tad judgemental, considering I think I'm only 85% complete..

Is anyone else flat out dissapointed by the story, even beyond the ending? I had imagined this epic battle to save Earth. Wars in the streets. Raiding Covenant command posts and cruisers. Fighting tooth and nail for every last position.

Instead, I get some mildly interesting Earth defense battles and a Covenant storyline that is about a 3.5 out of 10 on the "interesting" scale. It seems like they forgot that the 343 Guilty Spark event had to be tied up, so they invented a so-so plot to facilitate that.

I wish they'd picked a more "Call of Duty" approach to level design, too. Although the level design is a lot less monotonuous, the concept is still charging into enemies, killing everyone and heading into the next room. Granted, there's a vehicle scene thrown in there now and then, but I long for something a great deal objective-based.

The combat should have facilitated the objectives, not the other way around. Give me a personal (both storyline and level design) urge to complete them. This is why I think the Earth levels should have been much, much longer.

Final note: the first Arbiter level was about as fun as a gunshot to the head.

[Octavian]

Prediction: The Forerunners are actually the ancestors of the human race. That would explain why this "Ark" is on Earth. It also explains why Guilty Spark calls the Master Cheif a "Reclaimer" and not the Covenant. Guilty Spark recognized the Master Cheif as a memeber of the race that created the rings and thought he was there to set things right. I believe the Forerunners activated the rings and wiped themselves out, almost. Some of the Forerunners survived somehow and became what are now humans.
That is the most likely theory, in the books GS attempted to use a human Marine to find the Index. Later on I presume the guy died from the Flood.

[Untouchable]

I've always sort of suspected that the Spartans ARE the Forerunners? Perhaps reincarnations of some sort, which would explain as to why GS referred to the MC as a Reclaimer? Any thoughts?

[EarlyDawn]

Well, Spartan Shields and possibly components of the armor are derived from Covenant technology, which is in turn derived from Forerunner technology.

Its entirely possible that is the reason for the confusion of GS, or it could possibly be that he simply thinks that when the Forerunners hid away in the Arc, they changed over time. Thus, when he sees Master Chief with shields indirectly adapted from Foreunner tech, he believes he sees the post-Halo development of his master race.

[Angel_of_Death]

Just finished the game...

amazing. I loved it.
Last out question for everyone. This may seem a tad judgemental, considering I think I'm only 85% complete..

Is anyone else flat out dissapointed by the story, even beyond the ending? I had imagined this epic battle to save Earth. Wars in the streets. Raiding Covenant command posts and cruisers. Fighting tooth and nail for every last position.

Didn't it say that the one place where the MC went to help out on Earth (don't think they named it) was the only place the Covies decided to attack, and with only one cruiser, the one with Regret on?
I've always sort of suspected that the Spartans ARE the Forerunners? Perhaps reincarnations of some sort, which would explain as to why GS referred to the MC as a Reclaimer? Any thoughts?
Note, that when Tartarus is holding Miranda Keyes and is trying to get her to use the Index, "the Oracle" says to Tartarus, "please be gentle with this reclaimer, she is delicate", or something close to that. So no, it is not the Spartans, but the humans in general it seems.

The Ark is most definitely on Earth, if not Earth itself.

Anyone else find it ironic that the most anticipated game is here, and already we anticipate the next one? And Cortana's definitely going to be fucked up.

[EarlyDawn]

Just finished the game...

amazing. I loved it.

Didn't it say that the one place where the MC went to help out on Earth (don't think they named it) was the only place the Covies decided to attack, and with only one cruiser, the one with Regret on?

Hm. This is true. I still liked the announcement trailer, though. It gave the impression that we are completely screwed. :lol:

[Angel_of_Death]

Hm. This is true. I still liked the announcement trailer, though. It gave the impression that we are completely screwed. :lol:
Aye, nothing beats being completely screwed :).

Just came back from the HBO forum. What a disaster, but a lot of people make some good points. And the more I think about it, the more the ending does piss me off. Well not the ending, more like the situation...now we have to wait until two thousand and never to finish the story, probably on a new console I most likely won't get.

Gr, legendary time, and with subtitles. Lots of things slipped my ears, I'm finding out, which will slightly satisfy my curiosity and knowledge. Then I need to find out how to get the new map, Foundation. Seems like nobody actually knows.

[firecrackerNC]

Im a bit pissed that no Spartans lived. I had heard a while back that 3 more Spartans had lived and they join the MC and stuff. This never happened which sucks.

[EarlyDawn]

Im a bit pissed that no Spartans lived. I had heard a while back that 3 more Spartans had lived and they join the MC and stuff. This never happened which sucks.Yep, that was another issue of irritation. They totally threw First Strike out the window. :rolleyes:

[Angel_of_Death]

It says nothing 'bout the other Spartans, so their lives are up in the air. Sadly, only a small percentage of Halo fans have read the books so they couldn't put too much in that only those who read the books would fully understand. Damn, and I was hoping too see what happened to Dr. Halsey and Kelly.

Well, I'm almost sure there'll be a book released on the game, as they did with Halo. That will most likely explain some lost elements.

[Rbstr]

Well, Spartan Shields and possibly components of the armor are derived from Covenant technology, which is in turn derived from Forerunner technology.

Its entirely possible that is the reason for the confusion of GS, or it could possibly be that he simply thinks that when the Forerunners hid away in the Arc, they changed over time. Thus, when he sees Master Chief with shields indirectly adapted from Foreunner tech, he believes he sees the post-Halo development of his master race.
but elites have shields too.

[Doop]

For anyone who's confused:

Apparently, between First Strike and Halo 2, some event must have happened in which the Master Chief and the remaining Spartans are seperated. Maybe they died, or just went to Earth alone, we don't know. Somehow they meet up with the Cairo, and the gang gets on.

The Ark is some kind of temple on Earth. I theorize this because, first off for you to understand this completely, the Great Journey is a holy adventure in Covenant lore of activating the Haloes, and "burning a path into the divine beyond", and giving "salvation to all". They don't know that Halo is actually meant to stop the Flood. The Great Journey isn't killing humanity.

If the Covenant -really- wanted Earth destroyed, they would have glassed it like they did Reach, from space. But instead, they are ejecting troops on it to CAPTURE it. This is because they know the Ark is on Earth and they need it to fulfill their religion.

The Forerunner ship Master Chief is on contains the Prophet of Truth. The Covenant is already diminishing since the Elites, Grunts and Hunters split from the Brutes, Drones, Jackals and Prophets. If Master Chief kills the last bit of glue still holding the Covenant together, Truth, the Covenant will totally break apart, and will basically forget about humanity.

And last, the Gravemind. Apparently he is the central consciousness of the Flood. He's an organic lifeform that has been rooted in Delta Halo for eons, supposedly. How he teleports? He uses Penitent Tangent's teleporting ability.
After the credits, when he asks Cortana to answer his questions, he just wants to know what's going on and what has been happening. He's been underground for a long time.

Edit: I dunno if anyone said all this. I haven't read all of this thread. That's my theory.

[Infernus]

Erm... Cairo isn't a ship... Cairo is an orbital MAC.

[Angel_of_Death]

For anyone who's confused:

Apparently, between First Strike and Halo 2, some event must have happened in which the Master Chief and the remaining Spartans are seperated. Maybe they died, or just went to Earth alone, we don't know. Somehow they meet up with the Cairo, and the gang gets on.

The Ark is some kind of temple on Earth. I theorize this because, first off for you to understand this completely, the Great Journey is a holy adventure in Covenant lore of activating the Haloes, and "burning a path into the divine beyond", and giving "salvation to all". They don't know that Halo is actually meant to stop the Flood. The Great Journey isn't killing humanity.

If the Covenant -really- wanted Earth destroyed, they would have glassed it like they did Reach, from space. But instead, they are ejecting troops on it to CAPTURE it. This is because they know the Ark is on Earth and they need it to fulfill their religion.

The Forerunner ship Master Chief is on contains the Prophet of Truth. The Covenant is already diminishing since the Elites, Grunts and Hunters split from the Brutes, Drones, Jackals and Prophets. If Master Chief kills the last bit of glue still holding the Covenant together, Truth, the Covenant will totally break apart, and will basically forget about humanity.

And last, the Gravemind. Apparently he is the central consciousness of the Flood. He's an organic lifeform that has been rooted in Delta Halo for eons, supposedly. How he teleports? He uses Penitent Tangent's teleporting ability.
After the credits, when he asks Cortana to answer his questions, he just wants to know what's going on and what has been happening. He's been underground for a long time.

Edit: I dunno if anyone said all this. I haven't read all of this thread. That's my theory.
Don't the prophets know what the Haloes do, or at least something of their purpose? That they wipe out all sentient life? "Tartarus, the prophets lied to us.", and "Maybe even the heretics don't know the true extent of Haloes power" said the Arbiter. Hell I'm not sure, I'm replaying the game on legendary right now, with my subtitles and it'll clear things up for me. And fuck is legendary ever hard...way harder it seems than legendary ever was.

Gravemind knows what's happening, and what's going on. Methinks he's looking for the motives, or a history lesson. All we know about Gravemind on the Flood matter is that he is Flood-related, as Cortana said. Central consciousness of the Flood is a big assumption, although a big possibility as well.
Erm... Cairo isn't a ship... Cairo is an orbital MAC.
Tis a space station, either right beside a super MAC or with one attached right to it.

[Doop]

They "plied the Oracle with a series of questions", and Guiltyspark probably told them all the shit that Halo does, but the Prophets don't really think much of the Guiltyspark. I don't think they think Halo is destructive at all, they just think it's, you know, the stairway to heaven.

Another thing, when Mercy is getting floodified, he says they're going to Earth to finish what we started. That also implied my Ark theory.

[Biohazzard56]

The Individual levels were shorter, but I think the overall game was just as long. The gameplay in Halo 2 was more filler, its quality over quantity. The Multiplayer on Xbox live steals the show though. As good as the campaign was you just cant beat providing Air Support for a banshee while xnerd, chief5, and zayzay get the flag and when plans are executed in Multiplayer its amazing to see your Team's work pay off in clan matches.

[Neon Apocalypse]

Have you guys read First Strike, that halo book that is a prelude to halo 2?

Apparently a lot of spartans survive on Reach.

And we never get to find out what happens to Kelly.

[Terran Sniper]

I've always sort of suspected that the Spartans ARE the Forerunners? Perhaps reincarnations of some sort, which would explain as to why GS referred to the MC as a Reclaimer? Any thoughts?

not likely. Capt. Keyes' daughter, remebr her? GS referred to her as a Reclaimer, and she's not a Spartan.

My thoughts on the Ark:

In First Strike, the Covies glassed all of Reach except that one temple area. There, the remaining Spartans found a small crystal that could manipulate space and alter the properties of Slipspace. The Spartans and Dr. Halsey decided to bring the crystal to Earth for analysis, but a Covie capital ship followed (cretaing a route to Earth for the baddies). A presumably drunk marine gets pissed, and destroys the crystal en route to Earth.
I don't think the Covies realized that the crystal was destroyed and assumed that it was on Earth. Therefore, instead of glassing it, they invaded.
I believe that this crystal was the Ark, explaining why the Covies tried so hard to recover it.

[WritheNC]

26 Spartans survive on Reach but in the end only about 6 make it off the planet alive.

Along with John are Will, Fred, Linda, and Kelly is taken away by Dr. Halsey for some secret mission.

[Lonehunter]

If you don't have anything to contribute to a storyline discussion, don't post ***.
I was discussing a point about the game with WritheNC :)



Overall, I liked the game but didn't really like the ending, I was hoping for an end to the stroy. I think Bungie did I good job though. I would like to see Bungie in other games.

[Infernus]

not likely. Capt. Keyes' daughter, remebr her? GS referred to her as a Reclaimer, and she's not a Spartan.

My thoughts on the Ark:

In First Strike, the Covies glassed all of Reach except that one temple area. There, the remaining Spartans found a small crystal that could manipulate space and alter the properties of Slipspace. The Spartans and Dr. Halsey decided to bring the crystal to Earth for analysis, but a Covie capital ship followed (cretaing a route to Earth for the baddies). A presumably drunk marine gets pissed, and destroys the crystal en route to Earth.
I don't think the Covies realized that the crystal was destroyed and assumed that it was on Earth. Therefore, instead of glassing it, they invaded.
I believe that this crystal was the Ark, explaining why the Covies tried so hard to recover it.


The covenant knew where Earth was by the time the humans left Reach, they had already sent their fleet there. The covenant followed the Gettysbur-Ascendant Justice into slipspace and there was a battle there... then they went to the Rebel base from 'Fall of Reach'. The book is called first stike because Cheif and his Spartan's make the first strike on the enemy while they are enroute to earth.

[Terran Sniper]

right, i had forgotten about that, infernus.


Anyway, Bungie will most likely put into Halo 3 what they didt put into H2. I'm expectig a much longer wait for H3 than it was for H2

[Octavian]

A longer wait? Unless Microsoft is smart they'll probably try to rush Bungie for XB2.

[EarlyDawn]

but elites have shields too.Yes, but assuming my theory is correct, the Elites don't have the physical anatomy of the Forerunner (Human).

[WritheNC]

The Covenant got most of their technology from Forerunner artifacts. They have modified some of the things, but even all they have created is but a fraction of what the Forerunners had access to(which is why High Charity ran off the power of the Forerunner ship; if they understood it, they would have just copied it...but they don't).

The Mjolnir armor the Spartans use is made from Covenant technology which the humans have retrofitted and improved upon(since they are more creative and innovative than the Covenant...funny how in all fiction Humans are the most "innovative").

[Doop]

Also, on one of the last levels, anyone remember when Keyes was trying to grab the index in the middle of that large pit, but couldn't reach it, and then a tentacle reached out of the Forerunner vehicle, and she used that to reach it? That's a Gravemind tentacle, which really confuses me.

About the Forerunners...in Halo 1, when Guiltyspark is on the Autumn, he's scanning the information from the database. He says, exactly, "Finally, a history of all our lost time."

Our. He was looking through a human database. Proposes that we are, indeed, the Forerunners.
Plus, he says "Last time you asked me, if it was my choice, would I do it?" Chief never asked him. He could be confusing him with some other human from years ago.

[Neon Apocalypse]

Thats right the Ark had to be on reach. The covenant are attracted to it and thats why in the book they followed the crystal.

I read the book a while ago, they tried to destroy it didn't they?

[Infernus]

The Covenant got most of their technology from Forerunner artifacts. They have modified some of the things, but even all they have created is but a fraction of what the Forerunners had access to(which is why High Charity ran off the power of the Forerunner ship; if they understood it, they would have just copied it...but they don't).

The Mjolnir armor the Spartans use is made from Covenant technology which the humans have retrofitted and improved upon(since they are more creative and innovative than the Covenant...funny how in all fiction Humans are the most "innovative").


I thought the Mjolnir Armor first given to the spartans was invented before the covenant invasion.

[Neon Apocalypse]

Yeah but it didn't have shields. Its the shields that they stole off the covies.

[Infernus]

Well yea... but other then the sheilds te technology is all human... striaght down to the AI.

[Rbstr]

yeah

[hazzer2007]

microsoft and bungie could be waiting for x-box 2 before letting halo 3 out

[Everay]

i was reading a interview between Gamespy and the dude that wrote the script for Halo2, he said that he tried to remain faithful to the books, but couldnt completly because of the whole more than one spartan aspect in the game, note at the end, they remained fauthful to the books by identifying Master Cheif as Spartan 113, but beyond that, they cant. unless they want a squad based game, which would be cool.

[Octavian]

Master Chief is Spartan 117

And of course human technology is innovative, in FS Cortana found a Covenant AI on board the Covenant cruiser with code that looked like it had been copied some number of times. Only thing special about this is that it looked like her code.

[Terran Sniper]

In FS, Cortana found the Covie AI and copied herself to contain the baddie. It didn't copy her.

[Rbstr]

he didn't say that, he said it looked liek it had been copied a number of times

[Octavian]

The Covenant captured a Human AI and copied the code. That was one of Cortana's theories. The problem is that they did a bad job of it and it wasn't as smart or good as a human one.

[Biohazzard56]

What the fuck happened to Fred, Linda and Will?

I mean, there is alot from First Strike that was unanswered. In first strike the ending leaves you wanting to play Halo 2 so badly for the upcoming battle for Earth that includes hundreds of capitol ships but in the actual game you fight against maybe a company of Covenant soliders.

[StrikerTek]

Didn't they stay faithful to First Strike by there NOT being a huge invasion of earth?

As well as I can remember, Master Chief destroyed nearly all of the ships at the Unyielding Hierophat at the end of First Strike. It would take them awhile to build up that kind of invasion force again.

Also, it appeared in Halo 2 that Regret attacked earth prematurely and didn't have the full support of Truth and Mercy. This would also explain why there weren't many missions on earth.

I agree though, there are a lot of things left undone by First Strike that Halo 2 never even addressed. But if you watch the DVD on the making of the game, it becomes obvious that Bungie wanted to make the story more detailed and the campaign longer in the game, but they didn't have time.

That and the fact that very few people have actually read the books, so tying stuff from the books into the game would be very difficult. This is why Dr. Halsey and Kelly, as well as the other Spartans that survived Reach, all of which are main characters in the books, haven't even appeared in the games yet. Anyone who hasn't read the books would have no idea why there's a female doctor/scientist on a ship headed to an undisclosed location with a spartan who looks just like MC with all the armor on. Or why other spartans are even still around.

I'm perfectly content with them addressing the issues left undone by First Strike in the next book and leaving the game to tell a story that everyone else can understand.

[EarlyDawn]

Master Chief is Spartan 117

And of course human technology is innovative, in FS Cortana found a Covenant AI on board the Covenant cruiser with code that looked like it had been copied some number of times. Only thing special about this is that it looked like her code.Which brings up an interesting point. Humans never thought that Covenant could create AIs. Could that AI have been Cortana, years down the line, corrupted from interfacing with the replication code she found?

Remember, that crystal was creating crazy ass time distortions all over the place, totally destroying the concept of Cause followed by Effect.

[Edit: Something I should make clear. This is all a hybrid of the game and book story. Bungie has said that the books are not "official" and are not parallel to the game story. They couldn't work it in. :( ]

[Infernus]

Well... I was more just thinking that while Cortana was in Halo the covenant found her a photocopied her... but ti got borked. The crystal was no where near the Ascendant Justice when she found and destroyed the AI.

[EarlyDawn]

Well... I was more just thinking that while Cortana was in Halo the covenant found her a photocopied her... but ti got borked. The crystal was no where near the Ascendant Justice when she found and destroyed the AI.Reread the part where Dr. H talks to Cortana about the crystal.

It was affecting the timeline and probability even before the arrival on Halo. Everything in the storyline that happened, happened because of the crystal affecting reality to draw the team to retrieve it. Physical proximity had nothing to do with its effects on space nor time.

[Infernus]

True... you win.

[Neon Apocalypse]

IIRc Fred, Linda, and Will died.

[WritheNC]

Will, Fred, and Linda are still alive. The reason they are not in Halo 2 is because Bungie wanted to give you the feeling that your were the last hope for Earth. Putting other spartans in there kind of makes you lose that "special" feeling.

Something I should make clear. This is all a hybrid of the game and book story. Bungie has said that the books are not "official" and are not parallel to the game story. They couldn't work it in.

Do you have a link? I've seen a lot of links (but not from Bungie directly which is the problem) saying they ARE official, but nothing from bungie themselves. I keep racking my brain searching for one for the last 4 days now.

[Fehronozova]

Couldn't the Covie AI have just been a captured vessel's AI. Surely not all ships managed to follow the Cole Protocol. It didn't act like a Cortana copy would.

I too feel a Queen of the Zerg becoming of Cortana in H3, rather unfortunate. I hated it when Kerrigan fell to the infestation.

True about the "one man hero" thing. It would have been nice, though, if there was some comm chatter about the other Spartans taking care of smaller missions.

I hated being the Arbiter. It was nice seeing the other side, but I hated the Arbiter.

[EarlyDawn]

Will, Fred, and Linda are still alive. The reason they are not in Halo 2 is because Bungie wanted to give you the feeling that your were the last hope for Earth. Putting other spartans in there kind of makes you lose that "special" feeling.



Do you have a link? I've seen a lot of links (but not from Bungie directly which is the problem) saying they ARE official, but nothing from bungie themselves. I keep racking my brain searching for one for the last 4 days now.The afformentioned interview. They said they tried to stick with the book stories but couldn't entirely. Since with a story this complex it's all or nothing, the stories are not parallel.

I hated being the Arbiter. It was nice seeing the other side, but I hated the Arbiter.Oh the truth. :no:

[Neon Apocalypse]

Being the arbiter and taking on a squad of charging brutes with a plasma swords made me really feel like I was a warrior. Ive never seen a game simulate hand to hand combat so well. Although when you charge with the sword everything becomes a blur. But after you stand there with your plasma sword and 5 dead brutes lying on the ground you really feel like you just raped them all.

I thought that was fun.

[Fehronozova]

Sounds to me that you are the brute. :p

[Angel_of_Death]

Being the arbiter and taking on a squad of charging brutes with a plasma swords made me really feel like I was a warrior. Ive never seen a game simulate hand to hand combat so well. Although when you charge with the sword everything becomes a blur. But after you stand there with your plasma sword and 5 dead brutes lying on the ground you really feel like you just raped them all.

I thought that was fun.
I think and hope you're referring to the last level, which is the only and I mean only level which is fun and good. The first one, and the second, are horribly crap.

[Neon Apocalypse]

That room where you walk in, theres 5 brutes that come in. Theres these little tunnels underneath the floor you can go.

I think I played that part atleast 7 times. I died each time. What I started to do was go into the tunnels, cloak, jump up and stab a guy, then cloak and run away. I did that until there were 3 brutes left, so I took em on without running away with the plasma sword and they died. Its pretty much impossible to shoot your way in that room.

[BUGGER]

Are you stupid, use Brute Plasma Guns. If you complain about how they overheat (I rarely ever overheat), then you are not a true fighter....well maybe you are....but you are not a gunner.

...i played it on easy at first so it wasn't as hard....

I finally figured it out why the Prophets wanted to kill the Heretic today after playing the game for like the 5th time straight (god my eyes). And for those who dont know the Heratics dont want to sacrifice themselves to Halo as do the Prophets, and its kool that the Arbitor doesn't know until he meets MC.

And the Ark is probably on Earth because I rmember reading in GameInformer that when they played (or saw) a multiplayer level they played an Earth level with Forerunner buildings in it. Anyways for the game that this is, it being on Earth would make it a real twist.


And I like the Buggers...they make me feel special.....and they remeind me of the Buggers in Ender's Game....actually the description fits them well.

[Infernus]

I used the Brute Shot launcher and a plasma nade...

[Angel_of_Death]

I really can't see how much better the Brute Plasma Rifles are...they seem like they do exactly the same damage and same rate of fire. They're definitely not enough to make a difference on a Brute.

Carbine + Headshots to Brute and that's it. 3 shots to the head on normal I think. Or Brute Shot, especially with melee if they get too close.

[Smaug]

Microsoft is genius.

"Find out how the Halo epic ends in Halo 3 on Xbox 2!"

[hazzer2007]

thats what i said

microsoft and bungie could be waiting for x-box 2 before letting halo 3 out

[Smaug]

Well I wasn't about to read a 7 page thread for a quick remark. So, let's just say I agree with you.

[hazzer2007]

Well I wasn't about to read a 7 page thread for a quick remark. So, let's just say I agree with you.

:D yes

[Rayder]

The first time you meet the flood sucks, that elevator pisses me off so much.

And as for those brutes in the last part, just cloak and stick a plasma on them.

[Octavian]

The first time my brother and I were trying to kill those Brutes, I fell down into the tunnels. Ending up just leaping up and stabbing them all. By myself I just run through the door and wait for Johnson to take care of them.

[Fehronozova]

Yep, I just skipped those Brutes. The one thing about the Arbiter that is enjoyable.

[Kam]

I finished the game and was like, wtf is this? I can't believe Bungi did that... I say Microsoft convinced them to so they could have Halo 3 for the Xbox 2. I am so angry.

:) (Bungi)
:evil: Microsoft

:evil: Come on, you know you want to. We will make more money in the long run.
:) But what about the customer? They will be angry.
:evil: That's so cute, you still worry about the customers. They will follow what we do regardless, now break!
:) Fine, just stop yelling at me.

[Terran Sniper]

I don't see why you guys are blaming it on Microsoft pressuring Bungie (there's an E there, Kam). Microsoft has no power over Bungie because Bungie is a third party company. Halo is Bungie's franchise. Microsoft just lets them put it on Xbox.

[Kyonye]

methinks there will be a halo 3, the end is just too cliff hangery


they're already working on it.....

wish i never read this post...i haven't finished the game yet dammit

[BUGGER]

I forgot if anyone mentioned it or not but they said in the making of halo2 that they would've added more on if they had more time. They were cut short and at a certain date whatever wasn't done was not in the game.

[Angel_of_Death]

they're already working on it.....
Oh really? I'd sure as hell like to have some proof.

Official word from Bungie is they're still planning and don't know if there will be a Halo 3. Give me time and I'll find the article, somewhere on Bungie.net..

[Fehronozova]

Oh really? I'd sure as hell like to have some proof.

Official word from Bungie is they're still planning and don't know if there will be a Halo 3. Give me time and I'll find the article, somewhere on Bungie.net..

There's no bloody way they'd end it like this.

[Neon Apocalypse]

watch the DVD with the collectors edition

[Angel_of_Death]

There's no bloody way they'd end it like this.
Noted. But he said they're already working on it. No, not even close.

[EarlyDawn]

Well, I just finished it. The thing that made the ending so "Wtf!?" for me was how ineffective it was.

Ideally, they should have totally cut out the "sir" (sounded too corny), and actually had him doing something dramatic, like delivering the line just as he walks into a bright, mysterious room, weapon sholdered.

[Doop]

Bungie made an AWESOME game. But half of us bought it mostly for the storyline and to see what shens are abound for Chief and co, not for only multiplayer. We waited years for this game, I simply am disappointed with the ending.

They put so much in Halo 2, so much new material, that they don't have many more effective things they could put in Halo 3 to hype it up.

[OneManArmy]

...still waiting for the next halo novel.... damnit..... good game though.

[Infernus]

Bungie made an AWESOME game. But half of us bought it mostly for the storyline and to see what shens are abound for Chief and co, not for only multiplayer. We waited years for this game, I simply am disappointed with the ending.

They put so much in Halo 2, so much new material, that they don't have many more effective things they could put in Halo 3 to hype it up.

Well... At the time Halo was created it had all the XBox had to offer... Halo 2 at the time it was created had all the XBox had to offer.

Could it not likewise be assumed, that Halo 3 will have all the Xbox 2 (or whatever its called) has to offer... its simple application of technological progression.

[Doop]

I'll use this thread to say...

WTF?

http://useruploads.mythica.org/uploads/oracle_strange_creatures.mov

Tiny squids...nonhuman, noncovie, supposedly nonflood, nonforerunner.
Spooky.

edit: copy and paste link into browser.

[firecrackerNC]

Can I please have my 11.5728 seconds of life back?

[Fehronozova]

Oh my nooes! Bad indigineous creatures bad!

Did you watch the DVD?

[Doop]

Oh my nooes! Bad indigineous creatures bad!

Did you watch the DVD?

Ehh...I could only see "making of halo 2", not the other ones. I don't have a DVD remote so I can't move up and down on menus. :/

[Terran Sniper]

go buy a remote then, Doop...ya dick

[Fehronozova]

Ehh...I could only see "making of halo 2", not the other ones. I don't have a DVD remote so I can't move up and down on menus. :/
They had other indigenous creatures planned, but those were axed.

[Infernus]

go buy a remote then, Doop...ya dick

Yay for microsoft money grabing schemes!

[Fehronozova]

Yay for microsoft money grabing schemes!
Hurrah!

[Doop]

go buy a remote then, Doop...ya dick

Go WHAT a remote? Can't I just warez one?

[OneManArmy]

yea cuz buying a remote is much more expensive than buying a modem and hard drive.... fuck sony.

[Infernus]

yea cuz buying a remote is much more expensive than buying a modem and hard drive.... fuck sony.

But if microsoft is already giving you those... should it not be expected they have something as basic as DVD playback without having to buy something else?

Or atleast give you the option of using the controller with the remote making it much easier to control a DVD... (lets face it... PS2's controller interface for DVDs is crap).

[BUGGER]

The otehr characters that they wanted to put in the game would've been crap though, the Buggers and the Brutes are enough just because they are just a specail unit.....dunno how would the buggers fit in cause the Brutes have a story but still...you have that big boulder looking guy as a boss or something then the game turns into Metriod.


.....anyone play Metriod Echos yet?




And Gravemind (to confirm it cause someone said they only read about it i think) is its actual name because Cortana calls it that plus a level is named after him. And he is flood because the Arbitor called him "Paracite" which explains why Prophet of Regret was talking and why the other lightbulb still works which is why he can do a lot of other stuff that others have already said.....but yeah i'd like to show off what i figured out because thats what i've figured out this week from not listening ot anyone else about the game.....i feel specail. :D


Now I gotta question. Why does Gravemind not want Halo to be used? He wants it to be stopped lets Key's use himself to let her get the index. But then i was just playing and Cortana says stuff about how Gravemind distracted so the flood can spread (since he is flood).....i have to listen to this again. Its at the beginning of the level when you're at the Higharchy (eh) when the flood enter the city and just when a Pelican lets off a few more flood.

[Octavian]

I'm not going through 9 pages of information but I caught one interesting tidbit when watching the opening cutscene to Gravemind. Gravemind mentions that the Forerunner knew what they were doing.

[Infernus]

Now I gotta question. Why does Gravemind not want Halo to be used? He wants it to be stopped lets Key's use himself to let her get the index. But then i was just playing and Cortana says stuff about how Gravemind distracted so the flood can spread (since he is flood).....i have to listen to this again. Its at the beginning of the level when you're at the Higharchy (eh) when the flood enter the city and just when a Pelican lets off a few more flood.

If grave mind is indeed flood he wouldn't want Halo to be used for the reason that Halo is supposed to eliminate all life large enough to sustain the flood parasite... The flood used In Amber Clad to land on High Charity for the fact that its the covenant population center... tons of hosts and more importantly a slipspace matrix.

[BUGGER]

True but why did he let Maranda get the index in the first place, and even let her use him to reach for the Index? Hell they're going to destroy halo with In Amber Clad if the flood gets too out of control anyways, so Gravemind is screwed unless he teleports himself somewhere else.


btw how the hell did Gravemind get himself in the big mess of robots when Maranda gets the index? Its kinda looney/funny.