Referendum on bail mechanism failure feature

[AztecWarrior]

I hate it- that's strike 2 along with BFRs. If it gets to 3, I will reconsider quitting.

Right when you most need to eject, it fails. This also complicates tower raids, as I've flown over at 66% integrity and been unable to bail out. I don't care for that "BUT YOU DONT GET THE XP FROM AA KILLS" crap- if you're a level-upper from EverQuest who plays PS for the RPG features, you'll be pissed. But I'm fine with the personal good feeling of knocking down an enemy aircraft.

If I really need XP, I go sniping.

[EarlyDawn]

Sobekeus explained this one best:

The way I would have prefered actually is to simply not allow a pilot to bail until they lose control. Which is more realistic and still accomplishes the same thing.

He also dosen't mention that it would prevent tower drops by lone HA whores, which is a big point for me, too.

[Lartnev]

As an ardent Burster (well TR MAX) user, it's bloody annoying to engage and put in effort against a reaver (or even a liberator, but they nose dive so I wouldn't have any luck either way) to see the pilot just bail out. It's very frustrating even though I've done my job of destroying aircraft.

[Incompetent]

Tough shit, you get shot down, you die. These are the rules everyone else plays by, pilots should be no different.

Edit: Personally, I would love a system where-

1.) Dampeners would be restricted to Reinforced and MAXes bailing from galaxies only, the following does not apply to them, they would stay the same as now.

2.) All fall damage is configured to be like falling damage in the caverns (i.e., you fall any respectable distance, it fucking hurts.) Also, no ability to control yourself while your falling, at all.

3.) If you take (significant) falling damage, you get knocked down, literally, and have to stand back up, during which time your helpless. The more damage you take, the longer your stunned, and any forward speed from the aircraft bailed from is also translated into falling damage. This is to prevent low, high speed passes to circumvent the falling damage.

4.) You can bail at any time.

To me, that would effective negate what I hate about air bailing, for it to be used by cheap killwhores to close the distance, while still making it viable for escape and for more tactical applications. (i.e., you can still jump on top of a tower and proceed down, but not if the top is being actively defended.)

[Warborn]

Tough shit, you get shot down, you die. These are the rules everyone else plays by, pilots should be no different.

This is the truth. Pilots have always been the only people who've been able to avoid death from losing their vehicle so easily. You're just having a hard time adjusting to what ground vehicle drivers have been going through since the Stone Age of PS.

Also, don't try to say that people wanting the exp from it makes them somehow wrong. Why should killing an aircraft not reward people? The only logic I've seen behind this is "if you want exp go play EQ, ***." So yeah, I'm not exactly convinced pilots actually have a good reason for why an air kill should not give a reward to the player. All I've heard are personal attacks, or "well I'm happy not getting exp so you should be too."

[Hamorad]

As an air cav guy, i am personally against it, but i think overall it is a good idea. It may be annoying sometimes when AA DOES get the kill, but suck it up! you got killed, big deal.

[ChewyLSB]

I think it's a great idea, it's almost brought me BACK to PlanetSide.

[Lonehunter]

This is the truth. Pilots have always been the only people who've been able to avoid death from losing their vehicle so easily. You're just having a hard time adjusting to what ground vehicle drivers have been going through since the Stone Age of PS.
That has trueth in it, but didn't they recently add the ability to bail from a moving ground vehicle?

[BlackHawk]

Sobekeus explained this one best:
The way I would have prefered actually is to simply not allow a pilot to bail until they lose control. Which is more realistic and still accomplishes the same thing.
He also dosen't mention that it would prevent tower drops by lone HA whores, which is a big point for me, too.
Do that and give bep for the destruction of the vehicle (based on the length of time the pilot has been in the vehicle), regardless of the presence of a pilot at the time of destruction and you've got a viable solution in which pilots can still bail if they react fast enough, while still rewarding the people that downed him (thus removing a valuable enemy vehicle from combat; definitely worth a reward). Apply this to ground vehicles too, and everything is set.

[Warborn]

That has trueth in it, but didn't they recently add the ability to bail from a moving ground vehicle?

Not for people driving the ground vehicle, only for passengers. The drivers still need to stop to get out.

[Lartnev]

Do that and give bep for the destruction of the vehicle (based on the length of time the pilot has been in the vehicle), regardless of the presence of a pilot at the time of destruction and you've got a viable solution in which pilots can still bail if they react fast enough, while still rewarding the people that downed him (thus removing a valuable enemy vehicle from combat; definitely worth a reward). Apply this to ground vehicles too, and everything is set.

But why should the pilot get off the hook?

[BlackHawk]

If he can bail fast enough, why not?

[Baneblade]

The logic behind nerfing bailing is that why should a pilot get special treatment over a tank driver? Balance isn't just about weapons.

What would you say if suddenly every vehicle driver could bail instantly and run into a tower from your Reaver?

[BlackHawk]

Well, I'm a sniper, not air cav, so I pretty much wait until they hop out anyway. :p

As for people insta-bailing out of tanks and running into towers; as Incompetent said: tough shit. People get away all the time, it's part of the game. Do snipers cry that infantry can reach cover before they finish reloading to make that second shot? No, it's part of the game. We live with it and make what kills we can.

[Warborn]

As for people insta-bailing out of tanks and running into towers; as Incompetent said: tough shit. People get away all the time, it's part of the game. Do snipers cry that infantry can reach cover before they finish reloading to make that second shot? No, it's part of the game. We live with it and make what kills we can.

Someone getting into cover is absolutely nothing like someone bailing from an aircraft. Getting to cover and not getting to cover, especially when avoiding sniper fire, takes a certain amount of skill (or, at least, caution and experience). Bailing from an aircraft simply requires an alt and a G key, with the only risk being when you're getting hit by massive amounts of AA and your craft goes up in seconds.

So far I've still not read anything valid about why pilots should get a "get out of jail free" card with the old style bailing compared to what ground vehicle drivers go through. The only reason for it I'm seeing basically consists of "that's how it was before and I liked it so fairness and logic be damned, change it back".

[Baneblade]

Well, I'm a sniper, not air cav, so I pretty much wait until they hop out anyway. :p

As for people insta-bailing out of tanks and running into towers; as Incompetent said: tough shit. People get away all the time, it's part of the game. Do snipers cry that infantry can reach cover before they finish reloading to make that second shot? No, it's part of the game. We live with it and make what kills we can.
Well sniping is not the same, some snipers take shots at anything they see...others wait for the clean shot the other snipers give them.

I love sniping next to a newbie sniper, they hit my target and I take the kill :)

[Spee]

Easy fix:


Add an animation showing the pilots opening the hatch, and physically bailing from the vehicle, even if its in flight.

Stops tower drops, buffs AA, and makes perfect sense.

[martyr]

i love it. i don't mind dying in my aircraft, maybe because i suck as infantry. that's how i got my name, too - many years ago, of course.

[BlackHawk]

Someone getting into cover is absolutely nothing like someone bailing from an aircraft. Getting to cover and not getting to cover, especially when avoiding sniper fire, takes a certain amount of skill (or, at least, caution and experience). Bailing from an aircraft simply requires an alt and a G key, with the only risk being when you're getting hit by massive amounts of AA and your craft goes up in seconds.
Actually, if we're going to be specific, all getting into cover requires is the use of the W key, so it requires LESS skill than bailing :p ;). Btw, that was an analogy (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=analogy).

So far I've still not read anything valid about why pilots should get a "get out of jail free" card with the old style bailing compared to what ground vehicle drivers go through. The only reason for it I'm seeing basically consists of "that's how it was before and I liked it so fairness and logic be damned, change it back".
And I don't see why anyone should get a "Guaranteed Kill!!!" card. I'm not saying change it back to the way it was before, just offering a different type of reward system that also allows the pilot to eject if he reacts quickly enough.


You know Sobekus, I'm kind of surprised that you're arguing against my idea, considering it's derived from your own...
I love sniping next to a newbie sniper, they hit my target and I take the kill
That's just mean to your fellow snipers :p I prefer to get both shots myself ;)

[Warborn]

Btw, that was an analogy (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=analogy).

It's funny that someone who uses "btw" is trying to educate me on the English language. By the way, here's one for you. (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=reductio+ad+absurdum&x=0&y=0)

And I don't see why anyone should get a "Guaranteed Kill!!!" card.

Yeah, and what's up with infantry combat? I mean, shooting infantry with guns enough times is basically a guarenteed kill card. The infantry guys should be able to click a button really quickly and teleport back to their AMS/tower/base before they die. Pilots should get the same feature. Nobody should have to die from being shot a lot if they can click a button fast enough.

You take X damage, you die. That's how things work. Pilots were the only people exempt from this rule and, inshallah, they will never be so again.

[GeneralRazor]

After much thought, I think that the bailing mech would be a good thing if it started at 75% damage (I voted no). To me, that would be the time the mechanism would most likely be liable to fail. It also would take some amount of skill for the AA user. Non-real world of course, because that would be more like at 98-99% (because your seat would have to be burnt up).

That aside, since this change should have been made before all the AA weaponry came out, I think we should have true AV maxes that are a real threat to vehicles and lock on, or in the TR's case do non lock-on "suprise" damage like the pounder does to air. Also a "groundguard" that is exactly like the skyguard that does equal damage to ground vehicles.

ABFR is next....

[DeepStrikeck]

What about having this new bail feature work randomly? Right now, it will never let you bail below 25% life left. How about there is a thing that randomly decides if you can bail or not? At 100% life, you have 100% chance of bailing, and that percentage greatly decreases as your aircraft's life decreases. It wouldn't be a 1:1 ratio, that would be pretty stupid. But how about at 25%, you have let's say, a 5% chance of bailing. There is still hope for the pilot, thus not a guaranteed kill as some have mentioned, but you will get the kill 95% of the time. (These aren't necessarily the numbers that would be used or the best. However, I believe the number should be under 10% if you are at or below 25% health. This number would decrease to a 0% bail chance below 10% of the aircraft's health.) Thus, everybody wins because pilots still have hope and Anti-Aircraft guys or other pilots have a very good chance of killing the pilots. And by the way, I am a Starfire MAX, Sparrow MAX, Burster MAX, Peregrine with Anti-Aircraft weaponry and an Air Calvary pilot, so this is just my combined views and wishes of when I am in the field.

[Corsairsn]

Agree with ^^

[BlackHawk]

It's funny that someone who uses "btw" is trying to educate me on the English language. By the way, here's one for you. (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=reductio+ad+absurdum&x=0&y=0)
GASP! Oh no! What have I done?!?! I have abbreviated a phrase in common usage on a public message board on the internet, where such a thing is STRICTLY FORBIDDEN! Oh, woe is me! All arguments I have ever made and ever will make are now invalid, because of three simple letters! I must apologize to you, oh Great Warborn, Master of Grammer, for offended thine senses so! Oh great members of Clan Draconis Lupus, please forgive the poor misguided soul who has befouled your most holy of holy places with an abbreviation! I beg you!

Yeah, and what's up with infantry combat? I mean, shooting infantry with guns enough times is basically a guarenteed kill card. The infantry guys should be able to click a button really quickly and teleport back to their AMS/tower/base before they die. Pilots should get the same feature. Nobody should have to die from being shot a lot if they can click a button fast enough.
Yeah, and Personal Shield should be removed, since I have to shoot people more times to kill them. Oh, and Surge. That lets people run away if they react quickly enough. Can you imagine that? Medkits are completely unfair. And then there are these "support" certs, where people can actually HEAL themselves :eek:. They've got all these ways for grunts to survive a little longer in battle, and it's not fair to the people trying to kill them. We really shouldn't have to shoot them that many times! I mean, if I shot them nine times, why should I have to shoot them that tenth time to make sure they die? How about when an infantry has lost all of his armor and takes one point of health damage, he becomes incapacitated and slowly bleeds to death! Yeah!


Anyway, all I've got to say about the "bail malfunction" is: What do you think pilots are going to do? Go down with their ship, or learn to bail earlier?

What about having this new bail feature work randomly? Right now, it will never let you bail below 25% life left. How about there is a thing that randomly decides if you can bail or not? At 100% life, you have 100% chance of bailing, and that percentage greatly decreases as your aircraft's life decreases. It wouldn't be a 1:1 ratio, that would be pretty stupid. But how about at 25%, you have let's say, a 5% chance of bailing. There is still hope for the pilot, thus not a guaranteed kill as some have mentioned, but you will get the kill 95% of the time. (These aren't necessarily the numbers that would be used or the best. However, I believe the number should be under 10% if you are at or below 25% health. This number would decrease to a 0% bail chance below 10% of the aircraft's health.) Thus, everybody wins because pilots still have hope and Anti-Aircraft guys or other pilots have a very good chance of killing the pilots. And by the way, I am a Starfire MAX, Sparrow MAX, Burster MAX, Peregrine with Anti-Aircraft weaponry and an Air Calvary pilot, so this is just my combined views and wishes of when I am in the field.
That sounds good too. I didn't come in here and say "OMFG! Teh bail malfuncti0n is teh suxzorz!". I didn't say we should change it back to the way it was. Was just offering an alternative idea that I thought might be better.

[Teichgraeber]

I just Hate it!

[Warborn]

Grammer

Grammar.

You're really not that good at this english thing, are you? Maybe you should lay off the witty "hay this is an ANALOGY LOL OWNED" comments in the future.

[BlackHawk]

Grammar.

You're really not that good at this english thing, are you? Maybe you should lay off the witty "hay this is an ANALOGY LOL OWNED" comments in the future.
:rofl: I knew you wouldn't be able to resist that! :lol:

[Warborn]

:rofl: I knew you wouldn't be able to resist that! :lol:

:rolleyes:

[Lonehunter]

It's funny that someone who uses "btw" is trying to educate me on the English language. By the way, here's one for you. (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=reductio+ad+absurdum&x=0&y=0)
:rock:


The infantry guys should be able to click a button really quickly and teleport back to their AMS/tower/base before they die. Pilots should get the same feature.

When you bail from an aircraft and hit the ground you are not safe. You have a few seconds of WTF time where your vision is a little screwy, then, you're out in the field against an aircraft. The odds of the pilot winning in this situation are pretty high UNLESS, the bailer is a cloaker with Sensor Shield and the pilot doens't have darklight. In wich case the pilot's low BR is to blame.

You take X damage, you die. That's how things work. Pilots were the only people exempt from this rule and, inshallah, they will never be so again.
I just really hate that this is in the game now, my blood boils just thinking about it. They should just remove the "Out of control" part completely, so that when you take X amount of damage, you just die, that's it. Then the pilot would skip the part of the game where they are completely helpless and can not do anything. That one thing can make people very angry, not being able to control their own actions. Exactly why Fear was removed out of PvP dueling in EQ, Sony had the brains then, but it's all in the past. This game is gonna me more worthless then shit in a few years anyway, don't know why I'm arguing.

[Warborn]

When you bail from an aircraft and hit the ground you are not safe. You have a few seconds of WTF time where your vision is a little screwy, then, you're out in the field against an aircraft. The odds of the pilot winning in this situation are pretty high UNLESS, the bailer is a cloaker with Sensor Shield and the pilot doens't have darklight. In wich case the pilot's low BR is to blame.

That's more of a chance than the guy who gets hit with two bolt driver rounds in rapid succession has.

I just really hate that this is in the game now, my blood boils just thinking about it. They should just remove the "Out of control" part completely, so that when you take X amount of damage, you just die, that's it. Then the pilot would skip the part of the game where they are completely helpless and can not do anything. That one thing can make people very angry, not being able to control their own actions. Exactly why Fear was removed out of PvP dueling in EQ, Sony had the brains then, but it's all in the past. This game is gonna me more worthless then shit in a few years anyway, don't know why I'm arguing.

I agree, the loss of control part has no point for aircraft anymore. The only argument for it now that bailing won't really work at that point is "realism", but honestly, I'd rather they instead make the "realism" work when the aircraft is "destroyed". I think it would be cool if aircraft that are reduced to 0 armor (what would blow them up now) instead fall to the ground and blow up, with of course no chance to bail. Maybe if they take a lot of extra damage while in the air they explode mid-air, but it would be cool to see aircraft which otherwise explode mid-air to instead go crashing to the ground. Hell, maybe you'll even get an ironic kill and land on something the enemy owns.

[Lartnev]

Hell, maybe you'll even get an ironic kill and land on something the enemy owns.

The amount of grief I've gained from Lodestars and Galaxies doing that very thing isn't funny :D