OS math

[Majik]

So, I was sitting here pretending to do tech support, but actually thinking about the OS vs AMS problem lately. The biggest answer people give is "Well the OS takes 3 hours and the AMS has a 5 minute timer". So I did some math.

It turns out that in order for one side to deliver an OS every 5 minutes all day long there would need to be 36 (every 5 minutes for 3 hours) CR4+ on the cont. So on a poplocked cont that would be approx 1 in 4 soldiers. Now I don't know where to pull the specifics on how many players are CR4+ already, but that sounds at least like where we are already in the population.

Since according to planetsidestats.net the Emerald VS only has 4% of it's population certed in ground support, that means at absolute best there are 5 people on the poplocked cont who can pull an AMS. Now figure only maybe 3 of them actually are pulling them, and one of them will be intercepted by air cav halfway to wherever they are going every time, then theoretically there should be one AMS deployed on the cont somewhere at all times.

Now, whether or not it is where it is most needed is anybodies guess. The one most needed will be the one OSed, and the next one will be the one seen by air cav coming in for most cases. So the guy needed the least will be the one who survives :groovy:

Food for thought......flame away

[Phaden]

Yes, i can say that NC Emerald also is having this problem. There have been a number of threads on this i think, and it just keeps happening, Deploy and within 5 min get OS'd. Maybe time to kick in Adv merit that makes the AMS have a shield? I know that there was talk of this type of thing before.

[Warborn]

Yes, i can say that NC Emerald also is having this problem. There have been a number of threads on this i think, and it just keeps happening, Deploy and within 5 min get OS'd. Maybe time to kick in Adv merit that makes the AMS have a shield? I know that there was talk of this type of thing before.

I don't think the answer is to buff the AMS. You can't make it too difficult to destroy when you're not using an OS on it (which does happen a fair bit, as I use a flight BFR to hunt down AMS's fairly often). I think the answer is to rework the way CR is in the game, and remove the abilities like OS and EMP which CR holders have that do not help them lead squads.

[ChewyLSB]

The fact that Orbital Strike is even a CR Ability is ridiculous. Both EMP Strike and Orbital Strike don't help a leader lead, they're just solo abilities. I think that the commander of a squad should give benefits to his squad mates, and nothing else.

[GreyFlcn]

The fact that Orbital Strike is even a CR Ability is ridiculous. Both EMP Strike and Orbital Strike don't help a leader lead, they're just solo abilities. I think that the commander of a squad should give benefits to his squad mates, and nothing else.

Actually, consider OS if you were not allowed to use in in an unhacked enemy SOI.

And if they removed the CR4 OS, and replaced it with some other Leadership centric ability.

[Lonehunter]

The fact that a completely new person to the game can log in and use an OS bu becoming SL disturbs me. It's a reward for people who have played the game.

I've played TR and NC on emerald extensivly, and I must say the one thing TR is good for is spammign AMS, not always but I've seen it numerous times.

[Hamorad]

In reality, you wouldn't OS every time one is pulled.

5 mins for pull, 2 mins for transport, more time to find it.

That would decrease # of OSes needed to about 20-25 or so

[Warborn]

The fact that Orbital Strike is even a CR Ability is ridiculous. Both EMP Strike and Orbital Strike don't help a leader lead, they're just solo abilities. I think that the commander of a squad should give benefits to his squad mates, and nothing else.

Maybe, but I'd prefer if the benefits weren't combat related. I've seen some really excessive ideas for this kind of benefit, like double repair speed, more armor, health, footspeed, etc. It's really out there. Things like faster spawn times, reduced timers on vehicles/MAX armor (very minor, like 15% tops), and that kind of stuff which doesn't actually impact the fights themselves is what I think would be alright.

The fact that a completely new person to the game can log in and use an OS bu becoming SL disturbs me. It's a reward for people who have played the game.

I've played the game a long, long time and I'm still CR2. Why? Because I do not enjoy leading. OS isn't a reward for people who've played the game, it's mostly a reward for people who grudgingly grind out CEP, or the very few actual leaders who get it as a perk to what they normally do (and like to do).

But I am now working toward CR3 and beyond specifically because the rewards are so great. Then I will be one of the many, many people who gained a high CR, not to lead, but to get access to fancy new abilities. If I were a bit stupider and a tiny bit less mature, I'd end up one of the morons who spams Global with their useless conversations with other CR5 individuals. Is that really the kind of stuff we want to encourage by tying OS to CR? Recently one of the CSR's made a post regarding the ongoing abuse of Global chat and the steps they will take to try and solve the problem. The fact, though, is that if all these toys weren't tied to CR, we'd have infinitely fewer idiots with a high CR, because these people wouldn't bother grinding CEP to get something that won't help them drop on towers from a Mosquito and run around with HA, or sneak up on people with a Reaver and spam them with missiles.

I don't think anyone wants OS to be a free ability to everyone, but they are putting the wrong prerequisities on it. Why flood the commander pool with retards like me who want nothing to do with leadership, but need to pretend to be a leader to get stuff to help them be Rambo? It doens't make sense. If anything, the CR stuff like EMP and OS should be tied to Merits, not CR.

[KIAsan]

What is the point of the original question? O/S is overpowered because of limits to the number of AMSs? The answer is not muck with the games mechanics, but in that dreaded word, strategy. When is the last time you saw an AMS deploy well away from the base and use a router to teleport troops into/next to the base? Why do folks with an AMS park the thing against a wall, so the bubble extends into the tower/base? Why don't folks preposition an AMS or two prior to the zerg rushing in (so they can sneak them in)? There are lots of times that a well placed AMS will survive the entire assault without being noticed. Another avenue is to understand why support roles are getting more limited. Notice the lack of adv meds, CE, AMS and Gal drivers? It's not just the AMS that suffers from low numbers. Unfortunately, the dev team has focused soley on the FPS kill stats and done nothing for the support roles. Want to really fix this? Then lets get some love to support roles.

Now, if you want to talk just the O/S or other CR capabilities, sure. I, for one, don't like folks who use their O/S only as a kill whore strategy. You know the type, they wait until AFTER the base is overrun. Allow the greatest concentration of enemy in the courtyard, then pull the trigger. I have seen third empire O/Ss done on the courtyard of a cont in a 2-way fight (with that CR-5 being the only one on cont). Of course these examples are done only to kill whore. Now, can the O/S be redesigned? How about making it more like an artillery call. Anyone in your squad can secretly set an O/S point, which allows a CR-4/5 the ability to call down the O/S. Or, make them more inaccurate by using a more refined coordinate system (If you go this route, the timers need to be drastically reduced). Or just limit them to the defending empire (in an unhacked SOI) or any empire out of an SOI.

There are so many ways to tune this ability (and other abilities). Heck, I would be in favor of certs for certain abilities. 2 cert to gain a REK. 1 cert for global, 1 for Reveal, 1 for O/S. Let EMP stay the same. That way, you would force folks to use those 3 extra certs for an ability (I don't use reveal often, so I prob wouldn't cert in it).

Like I said, there are many ways to fine tune this. I just don't like the gut reaction "I don't have it, so lets get rid of it". True, there are abuses to the system (as for any system), so lets think of way to fix abuses and fine tune it.

[GreyFlcn]

Well, an easy way to make them less accurate is to remove the ability to see waypoints when you are in that view setting

Also to start you off at some non-standard zoom sizes

Also would be nice to allow AMS's to survive OS's when they are underneath a large concrete bridge

[Kam]

.

[Jeffey]

It could just be my lack of extensive experience (got PS 2 months ago or so) but I haven't noticed the OSing of AMS's to be that big of a problem. It seems fair, 3 hour timer vs 5 minute timer, which will probably have refreshed by the time they find and OS the thing.

And if some AMS drivers weren't so anxious to park the thing right next to the back door, or in the same old obvious wooded areas near bases, it could take upwards of 30 minutes to find them.

As far as OS in the wrong hands, yes I do agree that OS and EMP are not, by definition, leadership tools, and it could stand to recieve a looksie in a way of granting the ability to more worthy players, or rather, less unworthy players.

[Kam]

You got Planetside 2 months ago? Mind selling it to us?

[Warborn]

They are not going to do a Planetside 2 for a long time, if ever. This game is still making profit, and significant changes can still be made to improve it through expansions and patches. The idea that SOE is going to cancel it's still profitable and workable game here and spend millions on something that will do the same thing as the last game, "but better", is pretty unrealistic. Even the engine can be improved and expanded upon through expansions, so there's really no good reason for them to abandon all the work they've done on Planetside 1 and start over.

[Baneblade]

millions? Hehe, not many games cost millions.

I personally only got CR5 when I started my outfit...a loong time ago. I was CR2 for 6 months prior.

[Warborn]

millions? Hehe, not many games cost millions.

Yeah, they do. MMORPGs especially.

[BUGGER]

As I see it, OS is the nuclear bomb of Planetside (dont quote me on it for it doesn't put shadows of people on buildings). Why waste your bomb on one AMS that is just pissing you off and it could be rebuilt. The Nuclear bomb is for mass murder. Think about it: destory cities-destory building, blow up bunch of nc soldiers-blow up nc ams and maybe 2 straglers. If you seroiusly want the AMS gone, waypoint it and get a liberator or flail. 5 minutes opposed to 3 hours.

Save your OS for the opertune moment. FOr example, when the capitols shields go down and all the enemies are in the courtyard ready to fight. Thats slaughter and thats when an OS works at its best.

[Baneblade]

Yeah, they do. MMORPGs especially.

millions, I dont think so, it would take years to pay for itself at the prices they charge.

[Hamorad]

As I see it, OS is the nuclear bomb of Planetside (dont quote me on it for it doesn't put shadows of people on buildings). Why waste your bomb on one AMS that is just pissing you off and it could be rebuilt. The Nuclear bomb is for mass murder. Think about it: destory cities-destory building, blow up bunch of nc soldiers-blow up nc ams and maybe 2 straglers. If you seroiusly want the AMS gone, waypoint it and get a liberator or flail. 5 minutes opposed to 3 hours.

Save your OS for the opertune moment. FOr example, when the capitols shields go down and all the enemies are in the courtyard ready to fight. Thats slaughter and thats when an OS works at its best.Lol i c you've never used OS before. AMSs are FANTASTIC OS targets. You will much more rarely get good ammounts of troops all standing in a group, but the AMS will almost always give you at least a few kills. OS targets aren't that easy to find.

[KIAsan]

Save your OS for the opertune moment. FOr example, when the capitols shields go down and all the enemies are in the courtyard ready to fight. Thats slaughter and thats when an OS works at its best.

You can't O/S a capitol. Also, most CR5s do wait on good targets (even those that use it solely to kill whore). Heck, most of the time, I wait so long for a "good target" that I end up logging off without ever using the thing.

[GreyFlcn]

My squad was trying to use a bunch of Lancers last night

We got OSed 6 times :O

[Hamorad]

Yeah lancers make good targets, phoenix guys are even better, striker guys are just so-so, striker doesn't require the attention you need for the other ones.

[GreyFlcn]

Yeah, but 6 times in two hours?
All for 5 guys sitting on a hill sniping.

Getting to the point where OS is so unrare that people use it on whatever,
rather than save it for when their empire needs it.

Because they know if they don't have it, someone else will

Which is why they need to make OSes less common.

[Hamorad]

True, there are more and more cr4s and 5s now.

I love to use OS, but that doesn't mean that i'm not for taking it away.

Cr4 and 5s are supposed to help TEAMWORK, but what does OS do for us? It gives us more one man armies. If you can take out so much by pressing a little button, you're not leading.

Many, NOT ALL, cr5s got there simply because they wanted OS. Some i know just wanted to lead.

Maybe only give cr4 and 5s OS if they're OL?

[Warborn]

millions, I dont think so, it would take years to pay for itself at the prices they charge.

No, it wouldn't. Even at something paltry like 100,000 subscribers you'd be making over a million a month. Plus, box sales help pay for it somewhat.

[DeepStrikeck]

OSes in CYs that are Red Alerted is a great strategical decision, and yes, it induces teamwork. Why? Simple. You give your empire the ability to push out. It is not for the kill whore, it is for that moment that you've been beaten down and need that little pick-me-up so you can get back on your feet and beat the tar out of the opposition. The OS on the overrun CY is what saves bases. Yeah, you may get a ton of kills, but if wiping that CY helps your empire to come back and regain their position and possibly the continent, then it was a very good tactical decision. OSes may give people good kills, but they have to long of a timer and are too small to really make an effective kill whoring tool. Most OSes kill 6-15 people. Rarely, even in crowded CYs, do you get OSes that kill 20+. They are meant for the leaders to give their empire that boost to get back on their feet and fight. That is why it has such a long timer, to minimize the "rambo kill whoring" and to maximize the strategy in saving a base.

[Baneblade]

No, it wouldn't. Even at something paltry like 100,000 subscribers you'd be making over a million a month. Plus, box sales help pay for it somewhat.

Mm spose thats true, but how many mmos have that many subs?

Not to mention the cost of continuing developement, servers, and advertising. plus whatever they lose doing trials.

[Warborn]

Mm spose thats true, but how many mmos have that many subs?

EQ was the biggest with around 250k active subscribers. SW:G was somewhere around there as well. WoW has way more than that, having at times more than 250k active users on at once. Other games like DAOC and so on have between 100k and 200k subscribers. Planetside is really the odball of the bunch with under 100k subscribers.

I think you'd be amazed at how expensive these games are to create, but how potentially profitable they can be.

Not to mention the cost of continuing developement, servers, and advertising. plus whatever they lose doing trials.

Staff sallaries and bandwidth costs do take away a significant percentage of the monthly fee, but by no means does it make these games unprofitable. Why do you think SOE has so many MMORPGs to its name? Why are there so many MMORPGs in development/already released? These games generate a lot of revenue if even remotely successful.

[Baneblade]

Hmm, spose it would be nice if some of these multi million $ projects actually reflected that much of an investment...hehe

[Lartnev]

MMOs are sustainable revenue, but you need the financial, technical and business power to get them up to speed and maintain momentum. You need a lot of users to make them work as well.

[Warborn]

Hmm, spose it would be nice if some of these multi million $ projects actually reflected that much of an investment...hehe

Sadly, you can't just throw money at something and make it fun. It takes skill to make a good game, not money, although money helps.