Military Contractors

[Firefly]

Also called mercs. This is what I do.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/12/iraq.contractors/index.html

Have a nice day.

[xmodum]

K.

[Biohazzard56]

There was a series that was put online, I think PBS did it. It was about military contractors in Iraq. You guys definatley deserve that money, Keep up the good work and stay safe.

[Hamma]

:thumbsup:

You aren't overseas are ya FF?

There was a series that was put online, I think PBS did it. It was about military contractors in Iraq. You guys definatley deserve that money, Keep up the good work and stay safe.

Any idea what it was called?

[Firefly]

No, not overseas any longer Hamma. I take on more of a director role - more profitable. The average "rifleman" makes between $600-800 a day there, that's an untrained crunchie. I've seen contracts running five digits a month as pay.

The PBS series (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/warriors/view/) was called "Private Warrior", and it was produced under the name "Frontline". It largely looked at Kellogg Brown and Root (a Haliburton subsidiary), which is a massive supply/logistics organization. They're more of a rear-echelong ordeal even though they are on the front lines getting shot at. I'm talking more like Blackwater, Erinys, Northbridge, Sandline (defunct). For those that remember, the four guys who got burned alive and strung up from a bridge were Blackwater operators.

[Rbstr]

It's a very cool(a little bit romantic too[not in the love sence]) thing what they do.

But at the same time it scares me a little. A little sci-fi of me perhaps, but who else can see corporations acctualy at war with each other, invading places, or even toppling our government in the nearish-future?

[LimpBIT]

But at the same time it scares me a little. A little sci-fi of me perhaps, but who else can see corporations acctualy at war with each other, invading places, or even toppling our government in the nearish-future?

if that does happen, DONT SIDE WITH ENRON

[Disconnecting]

Side with dataDyne. They will be your friend.

[Giovanni]

So Firefly... your saying that if I succeed with the whole infantry thing up here I could join a private firm and make more money then I would in the army?

Hell... I'm planning on going JTF... I'm guessing retired spec ops would get mucho deniros.

[Firefly]

But at the same time it scares me a little. A little sci-fi of me perhaps, but who else can see corporations acctualy at war with each other, invading places, or even toppling our government in the nearish-future?
There are now laws against being an out-and-out mercenary. Companies are now forced to become legitimate - which means they're pretty much unable to undertake operations against legitimate, recognized foreign governments. And no company would operate against a UN/NATO government.

I've heard tell about operators that get propositioned to work against a legit government like the UK. They didn't take the job because not only is it career suicide, but it's just plain suicide. I know of a company that was doing an operation in some shithole African country and the government arrested them on grounds of fomenting revolution. They were based out of the UK. The British government flat-out said "You're on your own".

Most of the people in this line of work come from the US, the UK, and Europe. So the odds of it happening are zero.

So Firefly... your saying that if I succeed with the whole infantry thing up here I could join a private firm and make more money then I would in the army?

Hell... I'm planning on going JTF... I'm guessing retired spec ops would get mucho deniros.
Guys with spec-ops backgrounds are shoe-ins. From any country.

And yes, that's exactly what I am saying.

[Derfud]

Is it any coincidence that the evil mercenary organization in Oblivion happens to be called the Blackwater Company?

[xmodum]

Derfud, I was thinking the same exact thing when I saw this thread.

I beat that quest Btw.

[Setari]

Coincidence? More like the developers picking names from real world organizations. Probably also just a kind of inside joke for those that know. :p

[Electrofreak]

EVE Quotes:

Farore Akino > Pirating is like doing your sister. It's fun when you do it, but not when others do.

Zerokilla85 > i dont want a missile up my ass from u
Drago Katsov > i don't use missiles
Drago Katsov > contrary to the Caldariness
Drago Katsov > i am teh Amarrian master o/
Zerokilla85 > lol
Zerokilla85 > ok i dont want a powerful beam up my ass
Sanctus Gabriel > thats not what the graffiti on the toilet wall says
Not to derail this thread, but ROTFLMAO!

:lol: :rofl:

[xmodum]

www.omgrawr.net 4tw.

[Hamma]

That seems like a pretty cool job you have FF. I will have to track down that Frontline episode :d

[Firefly]

Let me see if I can find it on eMule.

EDIT:
Got it.

[Giovanni]

What I'm wondering is...

The danger, is it much more present? You barely hear about Merc casualties (aside from time to time like the blackwater ops)... what is it...? Bad press coverage? Better equipement?

Hell, if the casualties are so low that we barely hear about them... why the fuck should I stay for more then 5-6 years in the army?

[Firefly]

What I'm wondering is...

The danger, is it much more present? You barely hear about Merc casualties (aside from time to time like the blackwater ops)... what is it...? Bad press coverage? Better equipement?

Hell, if the casualties are so low that we barely hear about them... why the fuck should I stay for more then 5-6 years in the army?
The danger is much greater for contractors. Military contractors are not protected by the Geneva Convention because they are not classified as combatants. Contractors do the jobs that soldiers can't, won't, or aren't allowed to do. It's a Catch-22. You get paid filthy lucre, but if you're caught, you can kiss it goodbye. Most of the people that have been captured by "insurgents" in Iraq are contractors.

The casualty rates are not publically made clear, because they aren't soldiers and so nobody gives a shit unless it's like a butcher job. However, you hear about them all the time. When they say a bomb went off and killed 30 people and 3 US soldiers, a percentage of those 30 people most likely are contractors.

Guys in this line of work usually work a contract or two every year, and spend the rest of the time either investing some of the money to make more money, or they live comfortably within their means and spend their free time fishing, chasing tail, etc. Me personally, I like to write. Working on a novel, and working part-time as a health & wellness consultant for a marketing company.

[Firefly]

Hamma - I am almost done with obtaining the PBS documentary. It's a 700Mb file. How would you like to get it?

[Giovanni]

If you have any ressources aside from the documentary (I'll get it myself) I'd like to read up on that.

Also since I'm starting training up I could use some pointers... I need to be in shape for my phys test to be accepted in the infantry... I'm more or less out of shape...

I can do about 16-17 push-ups, 20 sit-ups and I run a mile in about 10:45-10:50. Sucks I know... used to be better a couple of months ago but I got lazy thanks to my bitc.... erm girlfriend.

If you don't mind that is! If you don't go ahead and post it or send me a PM :) I'd appreciate it.

[Firefly]

I don't know about the Canadian military, but for the US Army, we had to do a minimum amount of pushups and situps to get in the door. At our inprocessing station for Basic Training, they'd have us come up on a stage and do our sets in small groups. They then get you in shape. If you're already there, then you're good to go.

As I said, I'm not familiar with the Canadian physical fitness requirements. So the best thing to do is ask your recruitment personnel and get that information. You want to be able to at least meet their minimum passing standards for a physical fitness test, presuming they have one. That way, you're at least able to do the minimum and then you can only improve from there, and it makes you look better.

[Hamma]

Hamma - I am almost done with obtaining the PBS documentary. It's a 700Mb file. How would you like to get it?
hmm I have no idea :lol:

[Firefly]

Do you have an FTP section? Alternately, I might be able to fit it on the BWC website until you've finished.

[Giovanni]

The minimal requirements are 19 push-ups (with your arms parrallel to your body), 19 sit-ups, 11:13 minimal 2.4km run and 75 pounds of hand grips... wether it be 40 from one hand and 35 from the other... I'm not too sure about the two last one and the push-ups.... sit ups aren't that hard but geez am I out of shape.

[Rbstr]

The minimal requirements are 19 push-ups (with your arms parrallel to your body)

How the hell does that kind of push up work?! Are you standing on you head?

Do you mean perpendicular?

[Setari]

He means that you go down far enough to make the upper arms parallel to your body.

[Firefly]

Most likely, he means "parallel to the ground".

Those are some pretty low requirements. Is that just for initial entry testing, or is that standard for the minimum Physical Fitness test? For the US Army, your average 18 year old had to do 42 push-ups, 50-some situps (I forget the number), and run 2 miles (3.2-ish km) in 15min 56sec. Your 2.4km is just a few dozen meters shy of 1.5 miles, FYI.

Those were the minimum passing standards, 60% of the max graded. Some units would increase their standards, requiring 65 - 70%. If you didn't make their higher standards, you'd do special sessions of PT (read as: extra sessions) until you hit their standard. In the Ranger battalions, you were considered "PT Failure" if you were less than 80% and you were subject to dismissal - you could be sent to a "leg" unit.

[Giovanni]

It's just initial entry testing I believe. And as for the push ups... your arms have to be stuck to your side. Upper arms against your body (not pushed outwards like regular push-ups).

[Firefly]

That's a little different. There are generally three accepted types of push-ups - the close-hand (which is nearly what you're describing), the regular push-up, which is slightly wider than you're describing with the difference being, your arms bend slightly outwards rather than folding along your body, and wide-arm, where your arms form a right angle so that, when you're lowered to the ground, the upper arms jut away parallel to the ground then form a right angle and go straight to the ground.

Close-arms suck because you generally don't develop those muscles during push-ups unless you specifically target them. So they're a bit harder to do, but worth the effort. You're using the full strength of your arms versus your body weight. If you want to develop your arms, this is what you need to focus on.

Wide-arms offer an easy alternative if you've hit your peak and find yourself winding down. After a brief stall by adjusting your hands to redistribute the weight, you can crank out a few more and increase your score. Alternately, you can also catch your second wind and then go back to regular style, if you can psyche yourself into thinking you're back on track.

When you do them, remember to breathe. Keep your head up, don't stare at the ground. Find a fixed point and stare at it, and zone out. If your grader gives you shit, don't argue - just make the adjustments, otherwise you waste time and energy on a fuckface that doesn't deserve it. Don't slow down, either. Crank 'em out. The key to pushups is, don't fuck around and dilly-dally. There's no such thing as pacing yourself on pushups and situps. You knock them out, because once your momentum is gone, there is no "stride". Do them as quickly as possible, but do them correctly. Depending on your physical fitness grader, you might be able to get away with breaking the form a bit. Normally, though, a proper grader is going to watch your form - back straight, feet no more than shoulder-width apart, hands don't leave the ground, belly cannot touch the ground (I cheat and bounce myself off the ground because I'm a big boy like that). I've heard stories about hard-ass graders that put their hand under you, on the ground, and if you touch then you don't get that one counted. Never seen it, though. That's an asshole thing to do, even I'm not that big of a dick.

[Setari]

Regarding pushups (not really in relation to military), one of my wrists is messed up so I can't really do pushups with my hands flat on the ground. Are there any advantages/disadvantages to doing pushups on your fists?

[xmodum]

Less skin on your knucles (thinner) and it's a very space ammout of space to put your weight on, so it'd probyl generate more pain causing you to loose a couple push-ups overall.

Maybe...

Also the bone on your knuckles would basicly squeeze the skin, creating MORE pain :p

[Setari]

Well, it doesn't really hurt the knuckles too bad, but I was wondering more if I could be informed of the effects on the muscles.

[Giovanni]

Actually we did those kinds of push-ups in kung-fu Setari, if I'm not mistaken it builds strength in your fist making them a bit tougher since it's conditionning really.

Don't quote me on that thought.

Thanks for the info Firefly. I'm pretty sure the only thing I can do about it is do more and more every day. Also... should I try to exceed the minimums or will that actually make me look bad? I'm just wondering really. Because honestly I'm not sure if my initial evaluation will do anything for my rank or how the drill sgt. will act with me...

[xmodum]

No doubt it'd make you knuckles stronger, I was just mentioning the possible effects of when you're actually doing them. But yea, you'll get tougher skin and muscles around your knuckles, which is always important when you wanna kick someone's ass :p

[Electrofreak]

The whole "pushups on knuckles" thing doesn't do all that much. It's pretty much just a regular pushup. Besides, having thicker skin over your knuckles isn't a priority if you're learning to fight. Hit someone hard in the face, and unless you've got really meaty hands, you're probably gonna tear up your knuckles a bit.

Regarding pushups, if you want to work a different set of muscles than the normal pushup, just do diamond pushups. Or one-arm pushups.
:rawr:

[Baneblade]

Only newbies hit with closed fists to the face. :p

[Firefly]

Doing push-ups on your knuckles will put pressure on everything, just the same as doing them regular-style. I've seen guys do them - not sure what they're trying to prove. But those guys happen to be people I wouldn't go fucking with unless it was unavoidable, so take that as you will. You can certainly try it out. My advice would be to ask a sports-medicine expert. You can find one attached to any sports team.

Gio - if the "minimum entry standards" are what you listed, then just do the bare minimum. It doesn't affect your rank. They just want to see if you have the basic fitness level required to join.

[Infernus]

The minimal requirements are 19 push-ups (with your arms parrallel to your body), 19 sit-ups, 11:13 minimal 2.4km run and 75 pounds of hand grips... wether it be 40 from one hand and 35 from the other... I'm not too sure about the two last one and the push-ups.... sit ups aren't that hard but geez am I out of shape.


Soooo... you're saying I could get into the Canadian Military?

[Giovanni]

Yeah... I guess. We even have a gay platoon called: "The fluffy fellas". They go around the battlefield skipping and jumping spreading love, joy and fashion for both insurgent and allied forces.

[Infernus]

Yeah... I guess. We even have a gay platoon called: "The fluffy fellas". They go around the battlefield skipping and jumping spreading love, joy and fashion for both insurgent and allied forces.

I wouldn't fit in...

Hardcore **** scare me, and why would I want to spread love. I advocate war as a very viable, and useful means to an end.

[Giovanni]

I wouldn't fit in...

Hardcore **** scare me,

Good then I don't have to hate you with all my heart. I hate the ones that parade in leather outfits and say: "We wanna be treated like everyone else!!!!" with a tongue lisp.

[Firefly]

Yeah... I guess. We even have a gay platoon called: "The fluffy fellas". They go around the battlefield skipping and jumping spreading love, joy and fashion for both insurgent and allied forces.
Guess you never saw the movie "The Wild Geese". Ironic, too - it's about mercs.

Here is the link to the Frontline movie. Took me about 12 hours to load. This movie will disappear ASAP, so Hamma, sound off when you've got it saved and stored.

http://www.theblackwidowcompany.net/movies/frontline.avi

[Rbstr]

I can;'t to pushups for shit

or situps for that matter.

[Hamma]

Saving now FireFly - you own :D

Getting like 800k and already 9% will reply when its done.

[Hamma]

Done :D

[xmodum]

Hardcore.

[Ivan]

Any chance of that video being linked to again? :)

Also, Firefly, can you explain the French Foreign Legion to me? The way I understand it is that you can be from any country with any past (running from the law, i.e. murderer, rapist, bamby killer) and they with give you a new identity with a new name and new date of birth when you join. They don't fight French wars but they are sort of like mercs for the French Government.

So I don't know if any of that was true. Thought you might now.

[Setari]

It's pretty much that, with the added bonus of not expecting to live through your service.

[Hamma]

:lol: Doesen't sound like a very good gig,

[Giovanni]

Well it was pretty much the only way for criminals to run and have a new life... free from the witch-hunting.

Imagine being wanted in half a dozen countries...

Options:

1. Execution
2. Execution
...
12. Get your hands cut off
13. Join the french legion in the hopes of being able to desert and run far far away.