Reasons behind �No insta hit weapons�?

[TimberWolf2K]

Reasons behind �No insta hit weapons�?

Granted we don�t have instant hit weapons in the real world ether, but since bullets travel faster than we can react then let�s just assume that anything faster than we can react to is �Insta hit�
Now the PlanetSide world is massive, battles will most likely take play around bases which in turn will be set in these massive open grounds. So my question is, what is the reasoning behind giving ALL projectiles a travel time? This seem a little odd to me, surly it will be darn near impossible to hit anyone more than 100meters away from you, If you have to led your Target.
�But TimberWolf maybe it�s a short travel time and they are all really fast�
Maybe so, but then why would Dave have mentioned it if they had fast travel times?

One of the biggest flaws in Tribes 2 ( IMO ) was the lack of instant hit weapons, ALL bar one had an insane travel time, you could watch your projectile travel towards your target (and so could your target). If you had any chance of hitting a target you had to led by a huge amount. After a while I just gave up.

Perhaps someone in the know could explain the reasoning behind giving projectiles travel times in a game based in a huge setting.

Thanks in advance :)

[TimberWolf2K]

Ack sorry, I should have made myself clearer; I�m referring mainly to bullets / shotguns ect, rapid fire infantry weapons etc.
I�m cool with Rockets getting from A - B as slow as they like :)

[Zatrais]

You seen the traveltimes of the bullets? If you look at the gamespot vids you can see that the bullets travel pretty damn fast, it's almost insta hit (circle turns red when you hit).

As for why theres traveltime, to add some skill to long range combat by forcing you to lead abit i'd guess.

[Sputty]

Ever played BF1942? Tht looks like a really good example of that.

[TimberWolf2K]

Originally posted by Sputty
Ever played BF1942? Tht looks like a really good example of that.

Sorry your going to have to explain your answer, you kinda lost me

[TheWumpus]

I seem to remember two instant hit weapons in Tribes..the snipe laser gun and the machine gun. I doubt you'll want to use your shotgun on a target 100 yards away, and I also doubt you'll have to lead your target when firing a shotgun at close range. Check out some of the movies of PS gameplay. I don't think it'll be a problem like it was in Tribes with the plasma and disc launcher being the most popular weapons..but SLOW.

[Kalam]

There are no instant weapons in Tribes.
Chaingun is pretty slow and the Laserrifle also has a short travel time, only the animation is instant.
But that is what most ppl like about Tribes: you need skill to hit, not like CS where all weapons are instant.

[Shark]

I doubt that projectile travel time will be much of an issue. If you have a hard time hitting with bullets, try using something a bit less discriminating, like a rocket launcher or grenades. I can't think of a technical reason for projectiles having a certain velocity, but there are very good game design reason's for it, as have already been mentioned. There is a techinical reason for projectile lifespan - to preserve memory on the servers and cut down CPU lag.


-shark

[TheWumpus]

Kalam:

The laser rifle in Tribes was most definitely an instant hit weapon. The only reason you had to lead a target was to account for your ping. If you've ever played Tribes on a LAN you would know you don't have to lead at all, and that it is in fact instant.

[Serbitar]

We are talking T2 and there is a short trigger delay between pushing the button and the laser shooting with the T2 Laser

[JohnClark]

I'm gonna have to disagree with you about t2 weapons not being hitscan being a weakness. The weapons in T2 and T1 (which is way better :)) require a great deal of skill to use properly, especially when combined with skiing. The fact that they were not hitscan made the game alot more entertaining than it would have been if you could just point and click so to speak.

[SandTrout]

Also, for anyone who has ever played counterstrike: Lag causes hit-scan to do very funky things such as an awp bullet fired a foot off from the target, but still hitting them, or bullets that you know should have hit their head pasting through without damage.

I do however agree that the travel time on the Tribes(bothe 1 and 2) chainguns were excesively high for those weapons.

The travle time also helps with defineing range of a bullet. The bullets have a set lifespan, and how fast they are going times their lifespan determines their range.

[Bighoss]

Originally posted by Sputty
Ever played BF1942? Tht looks like a really good example of that.

battle field is indeed the most unrealistic shot time EVER. The bullets don't sink so pretty much if my crosshair is on you and I shoot you are screwed

[SandTrout]

Originally posted by Bighoss
battle field is indeed the most unrealistic shot time EVER. The bullets don't sink so pretty much if my crosshair is on you and I shoot you are screwed

vs. Counter-Strike with everything being instant?

I've played BF1942, and from what I can tell it has a pretty realistic travel time. The bullets might sink a bit too much, but nothing's perfect.

[BUGGER]

Why has this became more of a Tribes question than a PS question.............although I now can count all the elder tribers......:rolleyes: ............hmmm

[afex]

tribes???

whats that??

:D


Originally posted by Zatrais
You seen the traveltimes of the bullets? If you look at the gamespot vids you can see that the bullets travel pretty damn fast, it's almost insta hit (circle turns red when you hit).

As for why theres traveltime, to add some skill to long range combat by forcing you to lead abit i'd guess.

your crosshair turns red when placed over an enemy, not when your bullets hit them.

[Zatrais]

Yeah you're right, my mistake. Just looked it flashed red when the bullets hit in gasespotvid 8 but after looking at it again i see that it turn red whenever you target them..

[Nubi]

One of the biggest flaws in Tribes 2 ( IMO ) was the lack of instant hit weapons, ALL bar one had an insane travel time, you could watch your projectile travel towards your target (and so could your target). If you had any chance of hitting a target you had to led by a huge amount. After a while I just gave up.




It's not a flaw, it's a perk

Having it require leading of a target requires skill, which is a good thing, the average newb can't just pop on with a T3 and start owning everyone, as is the case of CS

On T2 you actually need skill, which is probably why you gave up, cause you ain't got any

P.S. Laser Rifle IS instant hit and if not it has an extremely short travel time because everytime I hit someone it's pixel accurate, I don't lead at all (even when they're flying, I just follow their head)

[Nubi]

hmm just noticed it said my signature was removed cause of admin, question....

Why?

[Zatrais]

Because it broke the rules..

rules are:
no bigger than 40kb (40960 bytes)
400x300 max size.

[Fire_Monkey]

Ths bolt driver has no travel time.

[Navaron]

We don't know that for certain. What we do know is that in the Shoutcast, Dave said that there was one instant hit weapon in the game (he thought), and I'd assume it's the bolt driver.

[Zatrais]

I belive he said that he tought there might be one instanthit weapon.. he didn't say it was the boltdriver, he said the boltdriver was the weapon whit the fastest projectile.. I can't imagen what the insta hit weapon is.. since he said the bolt driver had the fastest traveltime and that the lancer was the 2nd fastest..

I bet there ins't one insta hit weapon at all... if there was i think he'd known the name.

[Fire_Monkey]

If I must lead with my sniper rifle, I will suck, at first. I believe if it does have travel time, it will be like a fraction of a second.

[Navaron]

Yeah I think the BD was insta hit, and he wasn't sure if they changed it yet, but decided to put it as the fastest just for clarity later (which we dissolved).

[HRR Raven]

Wrong. It has been stated that BD is NOT insta-hit.

[Navaron]

Was is past tense. As in the bolt driver WAS instant. Did you hear the shoutcast? That's what I'm reffering to.

[Hellsfire123]

Whats up with people bashing CS? The things a classic, user developed and still going strong since it released 5 years ago.

Anyway, insta hit weapons are pointless. Short of a mini warp gate attached to the gun, or lightspeed bullets, you wont find any reasons for an "instahit" weapon. What we will find is that bullets travel really really fast. While not instant, it will be close enough for short range, only slightly off for medium as to make little difference. Only long range with average weapons will there be a need to lead, but i doubt significantly, maybe as little as a foot (to the targets perspective, not the shooters). Same with extreme range with the bolt driver.

[Meshuggah]

Anyone who has played "any" FPS online game with instahit weapons know that aimbots are bound to show sooner or later. :(

This way it's (AFAIK) pretty impossible atleast for longer ranged combat.

[Lillemanden]

Originally posted by Hellsfire123
Anyway, insta hit weapons are pointless. Short of a mini warp gate attached to the gun, or lightspeed bullets, you wont find any reasons for an "instahit" weapon.
Well that gun on the Vanu "buggy" looks like laser, so that would have "lightspeed bullets".

[Sputty]

Not this again. It's alser-like thingy. Obviously its not light speed. You could see it and it was a pulse. Not light speed. Anyway. THe bolt driver is the fastest weapon in the game and it's not lightspeed. Heh

[R KELLY]

WHATS IMO?

[Sputty]

In my opinion

[RaccoonOfEvil]

I won't mind non-insta hit weapons so long as they don't go as slow as they do in tribes 2.

[LesserShade]

Originally posted by Nubi
On T2 you actually need skill, which is probably why you gave up, cause you ain't got any
^more like t2 just has a frikken retarded learning curve. Most people lack the patience to break out of n00b status.

[�io]

Originally posted by LesserShade
^more like t2 just has a frikken retarded learning curve. Most people lack the patience to break out of n00b status.

Funny i never had any n00b problems myself. I'm actually hoping there is very few or no instant hit weapons, i don't want to play a game where any Tom Dick or Harry can rack up 50 frags in 3mins.

And to all you snipers-haters think of how much you'll love a sniper with instant hit weapons. :p

[SandTrout]

Originally posted by Dio
And to all you snipers-haters think of how much you'll love a sniper with instant hit weapons. :p True, thats why everyone hates snipers in just about every FPS.

[Sputty]

BF1942's sniper is harder than most games but still easy. DEfenders get quickly raped and with onyl a little training you can hit running guys easily. IF you;re manning a machine gun you're dead often. One time I was manning a machinegun and literally 12 or more even snipers shot at me. 3 shots to kill but right after I died there were alot of shots at my corpse really quickly by a sniper rifle. So..that means lots of snipers canmping the browning

[Spy]

Originally posted by SandTrout
vs. Counter-Strike with everything being instant?

I've played BF1942, and from what I can tell it has a pretty realistic travel time. The bullets might sink a bit too much, but nothing's perfect.
I'd hav to agree here. To date, BF1942 has the most realistic travel time for a projectile. Given that insta hit is what alot of people would want, i think its travel time that makes a game more fun. But in retrospect, too much travel time tends to get anoying, and i hope that the travel time in PS is the same as, or even less than, BF1942's. Now another thing that this brings to my mind is the idea of ping. Is planetside going to incoperate some sort of system, like in half life, that makes ping not such a big deal? Or will it be like Quake III where you have to lead due to ping, even for the insta hit weapons?

[Streamline]

Its what we currently have to compare things too. ie Tribes, BF, CS and RL. In tribes... your weapon carries your speed. Which is in turn, remarkable. So there is anways some leading or counterleading.

In tribes, the CG takes time to spin-up. The laser has a recharge time. but is relitively instant. The shocklance is the same way. But at close range what isn't? Even in RL bullets have travel time.

Devs only hope is to find a middle ground here. Make it realistic and also make it fun and require some skills to perform. This is part of the reason the tribes franchise continues to flourish. Even though it's publisher could care less. If you could deal with the bugs and the steep learning curve. You'd see what its all about in the tribes universe. Nowadays MAs, double MAs, and MA mine discs are frequent.

IMO its this learning curve that solid tribes players have already endured. That gives them a solid advantage, when compared to instahit and ground pounder games. Why is tribes compared so frequently? Cuz there's no other realistic comparison. Tribes happens to encompass many types of play. Therefore making it comparable to many things. :love:

[Flameseeker]

Spy, this was a week old. It was rotten and nasty and old. DON'T TOUCH OLD STUFF! :mad:

[Spy]

Well im not so much worrie about the travel time, as i am latency issues

[Frozen-Monkey]

well in real life you would have to lead a gun at a moving target. besides it cant be that bad