Vanu Ballistics

[NeoTassadar]

Reading a Dev chat and when they mentioned the balistics physics I thought of something. Gravity and wind should not affect Vanu beam weapons. Man, Vanu are getting better and better for my style.

[Sputty]

They don't? Where's your proof?

[ABRAXAAS]

Theoreticaly It would be affected cause there not laser beams there more of a plasma beam wich has its own mass if it was truly just a laser then It shouldnt be effected be conditions .

[The Eternal]

If it were a Combat laser it would be affected by the atmosphere thats actually why the US isn't using laser guns, but combat lasers work in space... So if the US gets in a Space War with Aliens we can blast em with lasers.

[Sputty]

w00t!! Let's grease them aliens with our lasers!

[ABRAXAAS]

I love that video footage of the us tessting there laser on a Piece of debry and then the piece of debry darts around evaiding the shots and then takes off out of the atmosphere , Classic:D

[Sputty]

Was the "debris" saucer-like, with small lights on it creating a deep resonating "humm"?

[ABRAXAAS]

No it was more sphericle but it was hard to tell with the grainy black an white footage

[SleightOfHand]

A question on ballistics: Does the cone of fire move up and down on the screen to show where the bullets will land at extreme range or do you have to lead a little up?

[FraBaktos]

Well not all the vanu weapons are laser, some are plasma and I don't think plasma would be affected by the wind. Also, I heard the US is testing with some sort of plasma weapon or particle cannon or something like that.

[Zetre]

i know of no such technology.
the coolest US weapons project i've seen so far is the anti missile plane with a laser beam on the front.
I really have heard of no such thing as plasmo though, i doubt that anything like that will come out for another 200 years.
We've used the m16 for about 45 years now, i don't think that we'll switch from the IOCW once that comes out for another 100 years or so. So i really don't see how anything like that will be possible for a loooooong time

[Deadlock]

coolest toy us has right now in the works. a light refracting body armor. the real to life infiltrations suit.

[Saint]

Deadlock that is a shared top secret technology between the US and Japan.

[Deadlock]

so a sweat shop produced us toy then

[Discordja]

however "cool" people think lasers are .. and how much more powerful than tr/nc weapons you think they should be .. it's not gonna happen.

expect vs weapons to follow the same physics that the other two factions weapons do. balance is the goal.

[RaccoonOfEvil]

No, the coolest weapon the US is developing has to be the rail gun. I mean what beats a spike going 2000 KM/Sec.

[SilentCacophony]

See what happens when a generation of kids grow up watching GI Joe?

[RaccoonOfEvil]

Hey, I liked GI Joe!!!
But acctually I liked the alien and predator movies even more :)
I even have them all on dvd :)

[AztecWarrior]

Rail guns require high amounts of energy to move very small masses. Superconducting superconductors move things near light speed but they literally move atoms, nothing bigger. The spike moved at 2,000M/S, not KM. A good rifle can shoot faster.

[RaccoonOfEvil]

No it went faster than 2000 M/Sec. If i just moved this fast it would be pointless, a normal tank shell would be more effective. The whole idea of the raingun is to shoot a small projectile so fast that it will blow up anything, but it will be a long time before we get one that is portable, right now it takes up an entire warehouse.

[AztecWarrior]

Still, it is in the m/s range.

[SilentCacophony]

It may be far off, but not in the world of PS. The sniper rifle is a rail gun. See you on the reading railroad.

[Bighoss]

my uncle has a laser that he uses for his business. I like to cut things in half:D

[Arshune]

Lasers work just fine in atmosphere...they tested one out in the Arizona desert that can emit a focused beam that reaches temperatures of up to 4000 degrees celsius. Granted, it's the size of a house, but that's still pretty cool.

I think the Vanu beam weapons would be closer to lasers than any kind of plasma because like someone said, plasma has mass. To emit a beam of any kind of length it would require a whole lot of matter, and matter takes up space. Of course, it's a video game, so they could always just say the things fire antimatter...which scientists don't know a whole lot about, other than it takes an assload of energy to make and it breaks down very quickly.

I think they said somewhere that bullets move in a straight line for a certain amount of time then just disappear. I know for a fact that they said wind wouldn't be in the game at release though, so thank God we don't have to worry about that. :D

[NeoTassadar]

Originally posted by Sputty
They don't? Where's your proof?

Sorry I'm so late on follow-up, computer trouble. Anyways, I said SHOULDN'T not WON'T. What triggered the thought was reading the devchat posted by Hamma. It says nothing about beam weapons not being affected, but really, they shouldn't. If they are unaffected, it would make a Lancer/Magnifier implant (from what has been said about projectile speeds and weapon stats) a more than viable substitute for a Bolt Driver. A little slower and little less range, but AV capability, and total overkill on infantry (OK I'm assume that one; ass-u-me)

[Zanzibar]

i think peeps are confused about the exact definition of'plasma' and 'laser' as far as im concerned a laser is any machie which can concentrate light into a supereated beam.
and 'plasma' is the liquid part of the blood in which red, white blood cells platelets and fibrin are held in suspension (thank you gcse biology)
corrrect or no?

[Zanzibar]

btw i8 might be well behind but look at this new bike!

dodge tomahawk
'trontastic beast of a bike'

power 500hp!!!!!
engine V10 (its a bike!!!)
top speed 400mph
special features dual rear wheels

so its a tricycle-a 500hp, 400mph tricycle...wow

[Lillemanden]

Originally posted by The Eternal
If it were a Combat laser it would be affected by the atmosphere thats actually why the US isn't using laser guns, but combat lasers work in space... So if the US gets in a Space War with Aliens we can blast em with lasers.
And that combat lasers requires a small power plant to function, that they aren't stable and that combat lasers currently are way to expensive compared to conventional weapon. Here I'm talking about hand weapons and tanks.
You can in fact use combat lasers. The US army have tried (I think they gave up on it, but I'm not sure) to equip a modified Boing 747 with a laser and then use it to shoot down missiles. Only problem was to maintain accuracy long enough to melt the missiles.

[NeoTassadar]

Like Arshune said, it's likely a laser ad not plasma, but that's because of mass not volume. Things can be compressed, but if it was plasma, the Beamer would weigh a few hundred pounds. Also, the main problems with man-portable combat lasers are energy supply and coolant. Energy is not that far from being solved, and you could use liquid O2 to cool it, but unless we get them a hell of a lot more efficient, you would have to change the O2 every few shots.

[Zatrais]

Plasma in the weapons sense is superheated substance, not the stuff that floats thrue your veins.

There are many different types of plasmas for the different elements,
just like solids, liquids and gases. In some plasmas actual molecules
stay together but are ionized, like in a very hot flame. As the
plasmas get hotter (flames are cold in the world of plasmas),the
molecules have too much energy to hold together, so then the plasma
consists mostly of ionized atoms and free electrons. The hotter the
atoms get, the more electrons they lose. At 50,000 kelvin or so
hydrogen nuclei start to lose their electron for good, but it takes
a plasma around of 100,000,000 kelvin for iron to lose all of its electrons.

Basicly, plasma burns and whit sufficient quantities some types of plasma (not the plasma in your fluorescent light bulb) has the mass to be used as a projectile.

[NeoTassadar]

Glad this forum has people who actually know what they're talking about with physics. The official forums had only about two or three, but the others had to get their word in *shivers*.

[SandTrout]

The beam weapons could use plasma without haveing increased mass from the compressed matter. The energy cells could be used to convert atmosphere that the weapon stores into plasma instead of holding the plasma in itself.

[NeoTassadar]

True, but that would be much less efficient both in energy and time between shots.

Oops, I should elaborate a little more. Less efficient than just using that heat into a beam directly from the gun's energy source, or heating and compressing the matter ahead of time (though the latter would only be feasible in tanks/artillery). Would you rather wait a minute or so between shots for the gun to make its plasma to kill one guy, or would you rather use a focused beam of that heat to raise a small portion of his skull to the same temperature (although holding it there for more than half a second would be overkill if it's capable of making plasma in 60, even counting energy lost to the atmosphere that would result from the use of a beam)

[Lillemanden]

Correct if I'm wrong, but wouldn't plasma require even more energi than laser (and have a greater loos due to heat getting away)? And would plasma weapons be more like "bullets" than beams?

[Zatrais]

To put it simply, yup to both.

[NewmanOnIsland]

Will be fun to see how this all works.

BTW In todays edition of the "New York Times" in the Circuts section there's an article discribing a microwave technology that the military HAS developed that will dissable electronic equiment. This is "fired" through a focus antena. It is not for anti personal just electronics. Cool Huh? Its a great bit. Pick up a copy and read up kiddies.

O, and if we do go to war. You will hear about it being used.

NewmanOnIsland

[MrVulcan]

Originally posted by RaccoonOfEvil
No, the coolest weapon the US is developing has to be the rail gun. I mean what beats a spike going 2000 KM/Sec.

Keep in mind that the following is all true. It is all RL. And it is all gathered from real sources (Boeing site, military sites, Popular Sci, etc)

actually, rail guns were almost perfected back in the early 90s, about 92-93 I think. The only reason they are not used normally is that in order for them to be used properly is to have them draw an incredible amount of energy, and thus they have to be hooked to their own mini-nuke reactor in order to work right.

The US has a new line of ships that will start to roll of the line 2005. The small 2 have missiles, and the large 2 have railguns. The Largest has 4 rail guns (2 (double) small ones for AA, light ships, and 2 (single) for real threats) that each have their own reactor, as well it carries 2 of the small boats (that are radio controlled, or 2 man controlled). (and they are creating the mini carriers that hold 1 f22 or 2 UMAVs. )
Oh and BTW, the railguns can be refitted to fire water ammo, they pump the water in a reusable shell that sorta slingshots the water like a bullet, thus they don�t have to worry about ammo =) But the Depleted Uranium shells do a lot more dmg. Oh ya, the large cannons can put a shot through the Enterprise (carrier) length wise!!! Sweet eh.

And to top it all off, the ships don�t show up on radar =)

Now those are sweet ships.


I would go into the super suit, UMAVs, and MAVs that are all being developed, but I am short on time right now, so ill write about them later :D

[SandTrout]

Railguns generaly use small rounds too, don't they Vulcan? I immagine the recoil from a regular battleship round fired from a railgun would be moore effective at destroying the ship carrying it rather that the ship it was targeted at(in case of a miss).

I figure if there is ever an infantry sized rail-gun, it would be more useful as a sniper weapon than assault weapon(don't have to adjust for gravity or wind as much). The round that it fired would have to be very small in order to avoid injuring the operator.

[MrVulcan]

oh ya, and 2 things that are out on the field right now are thus:

AMS (anti missile system) Tanks are now outfitted with them (saw a video of it working, an AT missile was fired at a tank, this little turret spun around, and fired like 500 shots at the missile, destroying it, so only dust and shrapnel landed on the tank!!!)

An artillery system that times things so perfect that it fires 50 shots up in the air at different trajectories, so they all hit the target at the same time!!!


Thats not even talking about neutron bombs (the ultimate weapon, same blast radius as a nuke, but just destroys organic matter, so drop it, people are gone, walk in in the morning and its jsut a ghost town, everything is just the way they left it, just no people) ((we dont use it since we cant control it yet, and its more of a doomsday weapon)) (((that is the same weapon that Clinton let the Chinese have!! We caught the spy, but HE let him go WITH the info!!!))) also we have super smart bombs, bio weapons, chem. weapons, backpack UMAVs, auto tracking riffles, and pistols, etc etc etc etc....

This is all in use by the US right Now!

[Sputty]

Of coruse these are a ways away from implementation right? Except for the ships...a few years...BTW..I'm scared:scared:
...WAit a minute...
Your Vulcan logic and my Schopenbulb army can handle any threat existant! MWAHAHAHA

[Arshune]

A neutron bomb would still require some retrofitting to a city if ever used because they would still cause damage not only in the immediate blast radius but would also weaken certain building materials.

Edit: Oh yeah, about the rail gun recoil...you should be more worried about the magnetic field it gives off, if it's strong enough to propel a projectile at 4km/sec then it's definitely strong enough to play havoc with your body. I don't actually think they have recoil though because they don't have any kind of explosive charge or force behind the projectile, it's all done with magnetic fields.

[MrVulcan]

Originally posted by SandTrout
Railguns generaly use small rounds too, don't they Vulcan? I immagine the recoil from a regular battleship round fired from a railgun would be moore effective at destroying the ship carrying it rather that the ship it was targeted at(in case of a miss).

I figure if there is ever an infantry sized rail-gun, it would be more useful as a sniper weapon than assault weapon(don't have to adjust for gravity or wind as much). The round that it fired would have to be very small in order to avoid injuring the operator.

They use well i cant find the article, ill try and scan it when i find it, but they were like 120mm actually, see, the guns compress in 4 layers, and they are magnetic not explosive, but even magnetic has a good kick, so when it fires, it just recoils in itself, thus the ship feels nothing :D

And the best thing for inf sized rail guns would be lie a sniper/chain gun, if you have the power, why not use it and fire over and over again, the fire rate for the ones on the big ship is like about a 1.2 sec wait time or somehting for the big ones, and aobut a normal AA gun speed for the small ones. (since htey just have to charge a field and fire again)

[MrVulcan]

Originally posted by Arshune
A neutron bomb would still require some retrofitting to a city if ever used because they would still cause damage not only in the immediate blast radius but would also weaken certain building materials.

Edit: Oh yeah, about the rail gun recoil...you should be more worried about the magnetic field it gives off, if it's strong enough to propel a projectile at 4km/sec then it's definitely strong enough to play havoc with your body. I don't actually think they have recoil though because they don't have any kind of explosive charge or force behind the projectile, it's all done with magnetic fields.

About the field... Well, it is rather well shielded and the majority of the power is directed in the millisecond charging of 1 coild after another, you would be suprised how well we can contain magnetic fields now a days.

The recoil... you are right, the recoil from a rail gun is almost nill complared to normal balistics, but it still has a good kick.

[Sputty]

Maybe in 50 years it'll be a common infantry weapon. Heh, reminds me of the first use of guns in war. Not as good really for infantry as swords. But now, heh, Railguns will probably become really common in the near-ish future.

[SandTrout]

Originally posted by Arshune
Oh yeah, about the rail gun recoil...you should be more worried about the magnetic field it gives off, if it's strong enough to propel a projectile at 4km/sec then it's definitely strong enough to play havoc with your body. I don't actually think they have recoil though because they don't have any kind of explosive charge or force behind the projectile, it's all done with magnetic fields.

Basic phisics Arshune, Newton's 3rd law,"For every action, there is an equil and opopsite reaction." The force against the bullet is the same amount of force in the opposite direction against the battleship. However, there are ways of decreasing the impulse placed on the ship via systems such as Vulcan discused.

I was saying that the Railgun would be more useful as a sniper weapon because it would take more time to recharge the field strong enough to accelerate the projectile to a reasonable speed to justify the cost vs. standard firearms.

[NeoTassadar]

Newton's third law is somewhat irrelevant to the one who fires the rail gun, as it pulls, it does not push (like conventional weapons). I'm relatively sure that the only recoil you get from those is because of the shockwave of the projectile.

[Hellsfire123]

There is drool ALL over my keyboard.....

Still, with the amount of force generated by the gun, i still wouldnt want to test fire it. Unless im mistaken it uses electro magnets? That much electro magnetic force could be alot more harmful then recoil. Not only to internal systems, but what if theres a stray round lieing on the table behind you? ....ow

[MrVulcan]

Originally posted by NeoTassadar
Newton's third law is somewhat irrelevant to the one who fires the rail gun, as it pulls, it does not push (like conventional weapons). I'm relatively sure that the only recoil you get from those is because of the shockwave of the projectile.

yep most of it is caused by the shockwave.
And it is powered by Super Powerful Super Charged Coils of electro magnets, but they are focused such that they dont create much of a field outside the gun.

P.S.
Rail gun speeds in the 90s were in excess of accelerated to 10,000 m/s, all within 1/1000 of a second, no clue as to what they are now, my guess is at least 50,000 m/s to 100,000 m/s

[UDT Snake]

Holy shit where do you guys find your info? :rolleyes: :stupid: :jawdrop:

[NeoTassadar]

Originally posted by Hellsfire123
what if theres a stray round lieing on the table behind you? ....ow

Yes...ow indeed. Your armor would probably have to be made of ceramics or other substitute.

[MrVulcan]

a lot of the cool military stuff I know comes from popular science and popular mechanics that i read all the time lol, other jsut from here and there, im a bit of a war history buff, so I tend to just find some cool stuff aobut military toys. IE: There was an issue of popular mechanics that showed you how to build an E-Bomb out of a soda can some rubber bands, and some other stuff... not very strong, but will make your screen go weard on ya for a few secs :D The ship info came from a popular science mag i have somewhere.....

oh and BTW, if you think were the only group with cool toys, jsut look up the S-37, it is the russian answer to the F-22. Very sweet plane.


S-37
http://popularmechanics.com/science/military/2001/1/russian_fighter_plane/images/lg_0101STMIAC.jpg

http://popularmechanics.mondosearch.com/cgi-bin/MsmGo.exe?grab_id=9293733&EXTRA_ARG=&CFGNAME=MssFind%2Ecfg&host_id=1&page_id=3469&query=s37&hiword=S37+

F-22

http://popularmechanics.mondosearch.com/cgi-bin/MsmGo.exe?grab_id=9293733&EXTRA_ARG=&CFGNAME=MssFind%2Ecfg&host_id=1&page_id=7999&query=f22&hiword=F22+

F-35

http://popularmechanics.mondosearch.com/cgi-bin/MsmGo.exe?grab_id=9293733&EXTRA_ARG=&CFGNAME=MssFind%2Ecfg&host_id=1&page_id=3031&query=joint+strike+fighter&hiword=JOINT+STRIKE+FIGHTER+JOINTER+JOINTS+FIGHT+F IGHTING+FIGHTS+JOIN+FIGHTERS+STRIKING+JOINING+JOIN TLY+JOINED+JOINS+STRIKES+STRIKER+JOINTED+FIGHTERA+ JOINTA+STRIKERS+JOINTING+

[NeoTassadar]

Discovery Channel, Tech TV, and rarely the History Channel, plus Mr. Vulcan's preferences for magazines (by the way, that new artillery, if I remember right, can only time 6 shells for simultaneous hit. Still overkill) for tech. For tactics - Tom Clancy and war history.