whats going on

[Marshall]

im new to the forum and i need to get somthing straight. ive read some threads that say thier is no area specific damage! How can this be for a first person shooter. its going to suck A LOT when getting shot in the head is the same as getting shot in the foot.

[SilentCacophony]

Damn, that's a good question. I haven't heard anything on that subject, but I'd assume I'm not going to get a headshot by shooting you in the foot (or a foot shot shooting you in the face).

[MrVulcan]

guys... this subject has been beaten to death....

Here is the basic idea:

There will be soooo much going on that if you had area specific dmg, you would die way too fast (IE: 200 guys with chain guns, just rand fire will kill another 200 in 10 sec from head shots alone) as well as lag issues, since you would not only have to compute if it was a hit or miss, but where it hit (remember with battles with 100s, even 1000s of people, that adds up fast) and it would generally make the game too fast. Due to the sheer scale of the game it just makes it unplayable to have it in there.

Most people still don�t truly grasp the scale of this game, were not talking 20-30 people vs 20-30 people, were talking whole lines of entire regiments, 1000s of people vs 1000s of people. That is just too many things going on to have area specific dmg.

You will die fast enough, don�t worry about it.

[mistled]

Also note that the game is geared to be more a game of tactics and strategy and not twitch reactions.

[Marshall]

I disagree with thousands of people area specific damage makes people die slower not faster. with a bunch of people using the spray and pray tactic there is NOT going to be a lot of head shots. The idea of a head shot is that it is hard to hit someone in the head. When you take away area specific damage you take away a reality of the game. People (or at least i will) be pissed when some sniper kills me with only my foot exposed. i am a counter strike junkie and i like are specific damage.

[mistled]

Uhm... making head shots count less (which is what they are doing) can't make the game faster. It's just not possible. There's no longer a way to get a quick kill, so how could it be faster??

Sniper's don't get one shot kills, so don't worry about dying from a single toe shot.

[Marshall]

blah its not like they are going to change it for me anyway i will somehow overcome and learn to live

[mistled]

I had to take the same attitude you have when I first found out. I know exactly where you're coming from. :)

[MrVulcan]

Reality is one of those things that can be very bad to have in games. It can be very good to though.

If you want true reality, a single shot will take you out now a days no matter where you are hit (bio, incinerary, adv AP (bullets with chem/exploding flak). 1 missile will empty a base, 1 grenade round will destroy a company, tanks are useless due to AT weapons, snipers, and the once in a while rocket troop are the only things left.
All sniper games are not fun. That is just sitting in 1 spot waiting for a target to show up. 1 shot death is realistic. I do not want 1 shot death.

Classic example:
The 1st real video game had 2 ships flying around and you shot a straight line of missiles, 1st one to hit the other won... Then they added realism to the missiles and had them pick a slightly rand path of fire, no one played that version, so they changed them all back again.

Fun does not mean realism, or non realism for that matter, fun means a better gaming experience, and if the only people who have played this say that it is more fun to pay it w/o area specific dmg, then who are we to question it? If they say that it is too large of a scale to have it, then we must assume it is, at least until we get to play the large scale games.

We can not use the other games we have all played as references to what will and what will not work in this game.

It is as big of a jump from Quake and Unreal to Planetside as Doom was to UT2003, or even Risk to C&C. It is a very different environment, a different scale, a completely different type of game. We don�t know what works, we have never seen anything like this before.

Let us just wait and have faith in the PS teem that they are doing the right thing. Debate it once we get to play it. ;)

[Fire_Monkey]

Sup Marshall, welcome. Just a note. I wouldn't argue with the l33t whores or PSU staff. I just had this huge argument with a staff member, it was fun. I wouldn't try this yet though. Maybe when you become a veteran.

Welcome

[CrazyMike]

I would encourage him to argue his points (in a friendly way) to anyone he wants. WTF does being a Vet have anything to do with anything?

As for the topic.. I'm no game designer or network expert, but wouldn't part of the reason for one hit zone be that it tasks the server less? With this many people online on a server at once (3500-5000), I would think the servers would have to work extra hard to not only track WHEN you were hit but WHERE you were hit as well.


CrazyMike

[BUGGER]

What will head shots change? The easyer way to die? You may like it if you are a sniper, but remeber all the other snipers shooting at you, do you really want headshots? this is descussed in the interview.

[mikkyT]

Hey MrVulcan, what an excellently written piece!

:stupid:

And CrazyMike, being a Vet means you've posted X number of posts (for all I know they could be junk spam to get a higher rank, thats why I pay no attention to the rank, only what the individual has to say, if its valid then it no matter who he is, or how long hes been here).

[SleightOfHand]

PlanetSide has a somewhat realistic aiming system. We can all agree about that, right?

So does America's Army. On close combat maps most people say that it takes three shots to kill someone, the fastest way possible. In reality, it's two to the head, and three to the chest, but the only people who aim for the head are snipers and newbies, since the chest is such a big target and kills with only one shot more. The same general thing would happen in PS had there been headshots. You'd have people with assault rifles aiming for the head missing and shooting all their ammo around it.

Some people say that the random factor will make people complain. Look at Mountain Pass in America's Army. Hitting at *all* there is not guaranteed, and no one at all complains:

"OMG!! You n00bit, you shot me in the head!! UNFAIR!!!

They just sit out for the rest of the round without complaining, most of the time.

Headshots in Planetside. I hope that the 'yet' thing that Dave said during a dev chat means it's going to happen.

[snipe]

if there are damage specific hits, then people will always try to get the headshots, instead of just shooting them anywhere. This would make the gameplay slower. most times, unlest u r a scout, u would be with a group of people.

[Deadlock]

im sick of this. if u want some reason for there being no headshots that fixes this reality necessity some of u seem to have then here it is.... ok, its the future right? so the helmet ur guy wears is made of some supper space alloy thats really strong. so damn, bullets dont go through it as easy. there u go, no headshots cause the helmets there. theres ur explination and its something that could really happen. now quit bitchin about no area spec. damage and just whine about the game not being out yet like the rest of us.

[MrVulcan]

Alright here goes....


Originally posted by CrazyMike
I would encourage him to argue his points (in a friendly way) to anyone he wants. WTF does being a Vet have anything to do with anything?

As for the topic.. I'm no game designer or network expert, but wouldn't part of the reason for one hit zone be that it tasks the server less? With this many people online on a server at once (3500-5000), I would think the servers would have to work extra hard to not only track WHEN you were hit but WHERE you were hit as well.


CrazyMike

I agree, ranks has very little to do with much, the only real relevance that I see is how if your ranks is higher, you probably have had more exposure to the game info, and are better suited to debate issues, but that does not in any way shape or form mean that people who have only posted once or twice can not have great points and add greatly to the discussions, it is just silly to think that they cant.

And ill quote myself in the 1st post i made about your 2nd part
"as well as lag issues, since you would not only have to compute if it was a hit or miss, but where it hit (remember with battles with 100s, even 1000s of people, that adds up fast)" And the devs did say that it was in part to the lag issues.

=========================================

Originally posted by SleightOfHand
........
.......... America's Army.....
..............


We can NOT use other games to compare on what will and will not work on this game.
You can not say that something works in risk and so it will work in C&C, nor from Doom to UT2003, it is a completely different game. America's Army was meant to be semi realistic, and was meant to be the game it is. We can not use other references in knowing what will and what will not work in this game, things are just too different.

UT/UT2003/Quake/etc are 1st gen teem games
C&C Ren/BF1942 are 2nd gen teem games
PlanetSide is a 3rd gen teem game.
There are no 3rd gen teem games, thus we can not compare it to anything. I know that we want to, but we cant. We don�t know what works in this scale of game.

==================================
Oh ya, and Thank You mikkyT :D I try :)

[MrVulcan]

Originally posted by Deadlock
now quit bitchin about no area spec. damage and just whine about the game not being out yet like the rest of us.


:lol: I like that idea :p

that and pie..... mmmm pie.... pie is good.... need pie.... :D

[Deadlock]

hey, when im right im right.... geez i wish this game would come out (now everyone follow along)

[Subliminal]

Yeah you guys didnt hear? The game just got canceled Bill gates thought it would make halo look bad and pitiful so he bought sony and sold it to a rich middle eastern oil tycoon.

[Madprofessor9]

hehe who needs headshots when I have my reaver :)

[Hamma]

Originally posted by CrazyMike
WTF does being a Vet have anything to do with anything? haha, nothing - everyone here can speak their mind. If they have one post, or 4000

[BLuE_ZeRO]

Indeed hamma :brow:

UT/UT2003/Quake/etc are 1st gen teem games

Those aren't first gen team games btw. Those are more like first gen online fps's but they are geared more towards lone combat or "deathmatch".

You're right though, we can't compare Planetside to other fps's because it's not like any other game. We need to trust that the devs know what they are doing and they had their reasons for not putting area specific damage in.

I disagree with thousands of people area specific damage makes people die slower not faster. with a bunch of people using the spray and pray tactic there is NOT going to be a lot of head shots. The idea of a head shot is that it is hard to hit someone in the head.

More people firing their weapons with area specific damage would make people die slower?... Hmmm no I don't think so. You ever play CS? Can't count how many times someone sprayed an AK-47 into a room and got a few headshot kills. There's was no skill involved it was just dumb luck that it happened to hit someone in the head.

I don't know if this was in the back of the dev's minds when they decided to take out area specific damage but I think it would completely null out the need for people to make headshot scripts and what not. CS turned into an aimbot / headshot script bonanza for quite a while. I don't know if it got any better but I stopped playing after that. Don't think they wanted PS to turn into the same.

[MrVulcan]

Originally posted by BLuE_ZeRO

Those aren't first gen team games btw. Those are more like first gen online fps's but they are geared more towards lone combat or "deathmatch".


I completely agree with everything you posted, however just to tell you the definitions I am using for 1st, 2nd , 3rd is thus:
====================
1st gen: UT/UT2003, etc etc etc you can have things like CTF, or teem deathmatch. Those are the most basic of teem games (not that they aren�t fun, I play them all the time) Almost to the point of not being teem games at all. Even if you are on a teem, it is by far more of a death match than anything else. that is why I refer to them as 1gen teem games, the most basic teem game you can have.
------------------------
2nd gen: teem games I look at as games that there is a greater emphases of teem work, and the primary focus is teem play, where one player complements the other (C&C ren, etc) IE: a tank goes out, supported by a repair guy, and a sniper/AntiInf/etc. However it is on a limited scale, and does not allow for complex teem planning / maneuvers /etc / etc.
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3rd gen: (planetside) Are the games where everything is on such a huge teem scale that you must work not only in small teems but in large global teems to secure victory and not be over run.
=======================
Not to dispute anything you said in any way, just to clarify my definitions and uses of generations. :D