Lost in Britain: The Right of Self-Defense

[xuur]

http://www.sianews.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=700&mode=&order=0&thold=0

"...from my cold dead hands" still rings true. Who'd have figured they'd be cold and dead because you were executed for defending yourself.

be careful what you wish for folks. you just might get it.

NRA Forever!

X

[Lexington_Steele]

This was bit of an extreme hypothetical scenario. Why didn't this guy register his shotgun? He was breaking the law by having an unregistered firearm. For reasons that I don't agree with, most brit's seem to be very pro gun controll.

If you do something similar in the US you would get atleast a felony gun possesion offence. Felony's are no joke.

This guy would not get first degree murder, he would likely get a manslaughter charge (as it was not premeditated and was in self defense).

I am not extremely familliar with Biritish law so I am not sure what your rights for defending yourself in your home are now or what your rights were in days past.

[xuur]

uh..no. Not hypothetical....if you read close, this was a true story and the man received life in prison.

The judge sentences you to life in prison. This case really happened. On August 22, 1999, Tony Martin of Emneth, Norfolk, England, killed one burglar and wounded a second. In April, 2000, he was convicted and is now serving a life term.

[Lexington_Steele]

Portions of the circumstances must have been left out. I can not see how it could have been first degree murder. There was no way it could have been premeditated.

At worst it would have been second or thrid degree.

[ABRAXAAS]

xuur you sound like one of those racist NRA freeks , you dont need fuckin guns for self deffence, if some one breaks into your house you beat em with a stick . Guns should be banned ,people dont need em ,they serve no purpose .

[xuur]

would you care to rephrase that?


racist how?
freak how?

your insults only reveal your ignorance to the subject at hand.
I've ignored your bullshit until now.

you want to debate..sure. lets


you want to insult...keep it to yourself. I have no use for those who enter a debate of the mind unarmed.


and get a fucking dictionary.

[Deadlock]

ok xuur, pull out the white glove and slap him.
you want to debate..sure. lets
improper sentence... wheres ur mighty dictionary now?

i mean we need guns but chill out man. stuff like that last post really does make u sound like a stressed out, about to go shoot a bunch of church people, NRA freak.

people talk shit on here, its just the way forums work, so take everything with a grain of salt.

p.s. this is written with :love: so dont think im tryin to insult u.

[ABRAXAAS]

First off The NRA is run by one of the most Racist people I have ever seen, second only to the likes of the KKK and In my opinion anyone, who associates themsleves with people like that deserve to be grouped into that same catagory . Second I live in canada and if I have a gun in my house that im not aloud to have,and I shoot someone thats broken into my house , I damn well expect to get in trouble for it .;)

[Deadlock]

didnt hitler group people in mass catagories?...

[mistled]

Hmm... I'd reply to this thread, but I don't think anything could come of it.

[ABRAXAAS]

I dont know why I replied either, I better walk away beofre I dig myself a fresh hole, ive been being good I best keep it that way :D

Sorry xuur I really dont care either way :D

[Deadlock]

to be honest i just wanted to put in my $.02.

[Bighoss]

there should be no gun control in America. If we ban guns from the public the next thing we now the Queen of England would be in here pushing us all around? You want the damn Brits in here telling us what to do again???:mad: :mad: :mad:

[Airlift]

I'm with Mistled

[Hijinks]

What part of 'shall not be infringed' do you not understand?

[Hijinks]

Originally posted by xuur



NRA Forever!

X

the NRA is a bunch of pansy bitches who have given up too many of our rights in trade already.

:mad:

[xuur]

*sigh*
why do I even bother?



*slaps himself for trying to start an intelligent debate here*
never again

peace all.

[Unregistered]

No such thing as an inteligent debate in these forums.

[Hijinks]

Lets see how big the NRA's balls are when it comes time for the '94 assault weapons ban to sunset in '04.

http://www.awbansunset.com

Will George W. Bush renew it like he promised? Will he get to be a one term president in return? Only time will tell.

[Lexington_Steele]

I just want to own an HK MP5, that has never been fired, and not have to pay over $10,000 for it. :(

I also want to be able get clips w/ over 10 round capacity for the pistols I already own, without paying an arm and a leg. :tear:

[Navaron]

I know better than to reply.

"First off The NRA is run by one of the most Racist people I have ever seen"

??? I hope you're not talking about Charlton Heston???

[MrVicchio]

Lets see...

How many law abaiding citizens with legal guns commit crimes with guns?

How many crimes are commited by criminals that obtained their guns illegally?

Which makes more sense?

Remove guns from the law abiding citizens, or uphold and strengthen laws against crimes with guns.

Your answer proves the point.

I have used a gun in self defense, I have killed, I pray never to do it again, I pray you don't ever need to, but I thank God you have that right.

Next person to say you don't need a gun for self defense.. I want your address, and a list of all your stuff, so I can make a shopping list before I come over. Keep your stick, I will just get a gun off the street and shoot your ass and laugh as you lie bleeding, and point out that "I had the gun, you had a stick, who'd be dumb enough to bring a stick to a gun fight? HA HA"

(I wouldn't ever do that, but I think it sends the message)

PS Abraxx didn't you say you were leaving, we're all still waiting.

[ABRAXAAS]

YEs I was talking about charleton heston and yes he's a flaming racist , Go watch bowling for columbine ,you cant mistake the words he said.;)

[MrVicchio]

Bowling for Columbine, such an objective, and well done bit of.. oh DONKEY DUNG.

[ABRAXAAS]

Originally posted by MrVicchio
Lets see...

How many law abaiding citizens with legal guns commit crimes with guns?

How many crimes are commited by criminals that obtained their guns illegally?

Which makes more sense?

Remove guns from the law abiding citizens, or uphold and strengthen laws against crimes with guns.

Your answer proves the point.

I have used a gun in self defense, I have killed, I pray never to do it again, I pray you don't ever need to, but I thank God you have that right.

Next person to say you don't need a gun for self defense.. I want your address, and a list of all your stuff, so I can make a shopping list before I come over. Keep your stick, I will just get a gun off the street and shoot your ass and laugh as you lie bleeding, and point out that "I had the gun, you had a stick, who'd be dumb enough to bring a stick to a gun fight? HA HA"

(I wouldn't ever do that, but I think it sends the message)

PS Abraxx didn't you say you were leaving, we're all still waiting.

And I agree with that ,people that are law abiding dont deserve to have there freedoms removed, but if only militarty and police had access to guns there wouldnt be much problems any more.

[Lexington_Steele]

Was Moses a racist?

I guess he was. "Get your stinking paws off me, you damn dirty ape."

[ABRAXAAS]

Originally posted by MrVicchio
Bowling for Columbine, such an objective, and well done bit of.. oh DONKEY DUNG.

Yeah I bet, the truth hurts doesnt it ;)

[Airlift]

I think it would be more fun to defend yourself with 180,000 volts (http://www.safetyproductsunlimited.com/cell_phone_stun_gun.html) or even 500,000 volts (http://self-defense-products.com/stunmasstunb.html). While it would be less fun than a baton, you could also go for the ranged option (http://www.securityplanet.com/ataser-info.htm).

I mean really, isn't having fun the whole point of self-defense anyway? :D

[Hijinks]

Originally posted by ABRAXAAS
And I agree with that ,people that are law abiding dont deserve to have there freedoms removed, but if only militarty and police had access to guns there wouldnt be much problems any more.

What are you going to use to take everyone's guns away? A giant magnet?

You can have mine, but im going to give you the bullets first.

[Lexington_Steele]

Originally posted by Airlift
I think it would be more fun to defend yourself with 180,000 volts (http://www.safetyproductsunlimited.com/cell_phone_stun_gun.html)


Ooooooooooh, for only $69.95 one of these babies can be mine.

This means that I need to get one of these and then have someone give me the oppurtunity to use it on them.

Hey Mr Vicchio, please ignore that part where I posted about the handguns I already have. I will be PMing you my address and list of my things. ;)

[MrVicchio]

If you consider that "Truth" you like to be spoon fed "truth" without worring about facts and such.. wahtever dude.

I liek that comment, You can have my gub, but you get the bullets first.. " I need that bumper sticker.

[ABRAXAAS]

Dont get me wrong I own a gun myself and I love guns ,but that doesnt mean I agree with em ,im kinda funny like that . these are just opinions I dont care "how" or "why" or "if" or" but" ,I just think it "should"

[Navaron]

You do realize the Charlton Heston marched side by side with Martin Luther King Jr, and was a leading Hollywood figure in the civil rights movement. Your ignorance is showing.

[ABRAXAAS]

Whatever man.

[Bighoss]

hey no calling people ignorant !

[MrVicchio]

Originally posted by ABRAXAAS
Whatever man.

Yeah, he said something taken TOTTALY out of context in a movie by a flamming liberal, so he MUST be what that guy portrayed him as, not his record on civil rights, not that he was a friend of Dr.Martin Luther King Jr, nope, He's a racist cause I saw something in a movie...

Yep that sums up your logic. Thanks for clearing up it up.

[Flameseeker]

Brax, put on a Police uniform, and then go into a gun-toting American's house. Tell them that the 2nd Amendment has been revoked, and that their firearm should be conficated. Send me the hospital bill. Most criminals don't obtain their weapons legally. Do you want to match your legal gun against someone's illegal gun? Or do you want to match your legal baseball bat against someone's VERY illegla gun? The criminals will get guns anyway, might as well give yourself some self-defence.

[ABRAXAAS]

One of these days I will learn to stay awya from these types of threads :D
Ok heres my formal stance then I walk away .

I Love guns.
I have a gun.
I dont think people should have guns.
If guns didnt exist people wouldnt get shot.
The NRA is a off shoot of the KKK.
Charleton Heston is Racist.
Americans are ignorant.
I Think religious people are retarded.
I hate Handicaped people.
I hate old people.
I Hate kids.
I love all Races.
I hate sports.
I hate racist people.
I think Aliens exist.
I dont beleive in god or any god.
I think candians are to trusting. (im canadian)
I like Midgets.
I love women
I have nothing against gay people.
I dont like president Bush
I dont like our prime minister.
I love monkeys
I like Rap
I like dance/techno /house
I hate country .
I love PSU
I love video games.
I love animals.
I love pizza.
I hate brussle sprouts.
I love shopping for clothes.
I love scifi movies.
I love comedeys.
I hate love storys they make me cry.
I dont have a father ,He died two christmas's ago from lung cancer
I hate smoking and smokers.
I hate hippys.

I could go on all day im sure ,but those are some of my opinions and some of who I am . like it or not to bad.
and thank you . and weeee Im a l337whore.:D

[OneManArmy]

Abraxaas, I'm Glad you enjoy that propaganda bullshit, "bowling for columbine" etc.. Open your narrow mind and look at some facts sometime. You think the guy in the story was wrong? I hope someone breaks into your house and tries to bash your head in with a blunt object. You might change your mind then. Or even better if he has a gun of his own. But that�s a horrible thing to wish. So, instead I wish you would get your head out of your ass and stop believing every you read just because its anit-american or anti-government or anti-social. Look for facts and not some cut and paste job just to make you their sheep.

I am really sorry to show anger like this but damn Abraxaas...

[ABRAXAAS]

Narrow mind ....show ME! some facts.
200 gun deaths in canada in 1 year. 11,000+ in the us in 1 year,
theres a fact , Our country doesnt have a gun problem ,yours does. So why shouldnt I belive the movie? It just confirmed most everything us candians already knew. ;)

[Lexington_Steele]

Lets all play the try and jump down ABRAXAAS' throat game. It is fun. :)

[Navaron]

maybe we'll find out if hamma ban's L33t whores now.....

[ABRAXAAS]

Fuck you I havent even done anything but state my opinion .:mad:

[ABRAXAAS]

Aperantly im the only one on this site that cant stae my opinion without someone yelling BAN!

[Navaron]

Nahhh, Silent was in that category too.

[ABRAXAAS]

OH! well thats ok I guess as long as im not alone:D

[OneManArmy]

THOSE numbers are worthless!!!!!


lets start off simple shall we?

canada total population: roughly 31 million

USA's total population: roughly over 290 million

Canadas population density: 8.7 people/mi2

USA's population density: 76 people/mi2

now, what can you tell me from those numbers boys and girls?

saying that just because we have guns is why so many people die is just plain ignorant.

[Arshune]

Guns are fine as long as they have a peaceable purpose. Owning a hunting weapon or a handgun for self defense is respectable enough, but people who go out and buy assault weapons are just plain crazy. It's legal in a good number of states to buy most class III firearms (which includes everything from grenades to machine guns to silencers). Honestly, what purpose could anyone have for a silencer other than keeping something quiet, huh?

That's my take on it, anyway. If you outlaw something, then only outlaws will have it.

[Navaron]

2 things. I don't have the time for this debate.

1- Someone please post why the second amendment is in the constitution.
- What was the first thing that Hitler and Stalin did to their societies and their neighbors?

2- An armed society is a polite society.

[ABRAXAAS]

Originally posted by OneManArmy
THOSE numbers are worthless!!!!!


lets start off simple shall we?

canada total population: roughly 31 million

USA's total population: roughly over 290 million

Canadas population density: 8.7 people/mi2

USA's population density: 76 people/mi2

now, what can you tell me from those numbers boys and girls?

saying that just because we have guns is why so many people die is just plain ignorant.

Ok lets do the math

290million / 31million = 9

so 11,000 deaths devided by 9 give you a equivelant of
1222,deaths wich still looks like a problem to me ;)

[ABRAXAAS]

You americans and your freedoms , someone or somethings always trying to take em away ,if you ask me you have no freedoms, you lock your doors, your constantly affraid of attacks,muggings,war whatever you bar your windows buy alarms, keep guns to prtect your selfs ,against other ameicans.:D
You have already lost your freedoms ,you just dont realize it because your government tells you you have freedom.

[OneManArmy]

its quite funny what gross generalizations you make.

We rarely lock the doors around here, no one ever worries about something bad happening, and the majority of people worried/ protesting about war over here are the idiots who have nothing to do and the emotional, yet, lazy college students looking to get out of a term paper or test.


well, there are more factors than just the population statistics I put up, I'm jsut showing you the most obvious ones... We can dig deeper if you so choose. I'm just saying is that your evidence is backed up more by emotion rather than facts.

[ABRAXAAS]

First off I generalize and I know little of the actual USA because I live in Canada and its the same reason you probably have distorted I deas of canada and guatamala,all you know is what your told and that is all I can do is base what I feel is right on the information I am given . simple, Im no more ignorant than you . my knowledge just liesin canada and not the us:D

[Lexington_Steele]

Just to play devils advocate here, if you compare both european cities (ones with strict gun controll)and US cities with similar population densities, you will find that the US has higher crime rates.

[Lexington_Steele]

Originally posted by OneManArmy
We rarely lock the doors around here

I dare you to live in D.C., Baltimore, Philly, or NYC and not lock your doors.

[OneManArmy]

Originally posted by Lexington_Steele
I dare you to live in D.C., Baltimore, Philly, or NYC and not lock your doors.

no, I DARE you to live in ANY major city in the world and not lock your doors... I'm not debating large cities here, were discussing the countries as a whole. and population density, has little relavence. I'm sorry I put that up there....

[MrVicchio]

Originally posted by Lexington_Steele
Just to play devils advocate here, if you compare both european cities (ones with strict gun controll)and US cities with similar population densities, you will find that the US has higher crime rates.


Didn't I all ready prove that Londons' crime rate was higher then NYC?

[Bighoss]

I dare you to live in south africa and not lock your doors:eek:

[Hijinks]

Originally posted by ABRAXAAS
Ok lets do the math

290million / 31million = 9

so 11,000 deaths devided by 9 give you a equivelant of
1222,deaths wich still looks like a problem to me ;)

If you remember correctly from Bowling for Columbine, Canada has just as many guns per person as the USA.

MM actually blames the media for violence, not guns.

I'd have to say americans are just culturally violent people.

[Dire_Wolf]

Guns, used correctly, are not dangerous. It is the people that use the guns that make them dangerous. Even if they did ban guns, the people who still want to kill others would get their guns whichever way they can. Banning guns only hurts the people who follow the laws.

[Lexington_Steele]

Originally posted by MrVicchio
Didn't I all ready prove that Londons' crime rate was higher then NYC?
nope.

[chopstickz]

Do you really need a gun for self defence? All I ever need is golf club:D

It doesn't matter how many bans or restrictions you have on firearms, gun crime does not generally speaking go down. For example owning a hand gun in this country (UK) will get you five years. If you want a shotgun licence youv'e gotta have a damn good reason. Still has gun crime gone down? no in fact its on a rise. It has become a symbol of defiance and status for criminals to have firearms.

If an armed responce officer shoots a firearm brandishing criminal because he thinks his or somone elses life is in danger he faces criminal charges. A bit harsh if you ask me but there you go.

[AeoNELiTe]

I don't know about the UK, but in the US if you kill someone who is trying to do serious harm to you, you walk. Doesn't matter if the gun was registered or not, that would be a seperate charge.

[chopstickz]

I not to fimiliar with british law:D but i know that harming someone in self defence with an unregistered firearm gets you in serious time. One of the reasons why i din't have one really:D

[OneManArmy]

well then, I can proudly say I'm glad to live in the USA where I can defend myself however I see fit and not get screwed just for protecting me and my family.

Laws only affect you if you follow them in the first place. Criminals will have a gun either way, so IMO taking the guns away from the honest people is a bad idea. Will it stop accidental deaths? yes. but there are much less drastic ways to do that.

[chopstickz]

Personally I can't see the need for a firearm to defend yourself here. Chances are that any intruder is only after your TV. See you and run off. There is a small chance that he's gonna be armed because getting hold of a handgun is not easy for a lowly house robber and they prob dont want to risk being caught with one.

Obviously many people in the UK feel this way because other wise we would have less strong gun laws.

[Hijinks]

Remember kids, when guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns.

:nazi:

[ABRAXAAS]

I agree with chopstickz, 99% of people that do Break and Enters do not use guns and the other 1 % use fake guns, I dont know what its like in the states. but here there really is no need for guns .

[MrVicchio]

I just wanna know where you people live, those that don't mind being robbed.. Man I canuse some money too.

[chopstickz]

I do mind being robbed but i'm not gonna shoot and intruder as soon as he comes in the door just hit him with a stick:D

What i'm saying is, being robbed isn't my number one worry, I feel pretty safe where I am. That is untill I tell you where I live and you rob me:scared:

[ABRAXAAS]

for mr vic

using Your threating aditude to try to make us agree with you wont work, I dare you to come up to my place in vancouver, You wouldnt make it past the front door.

[MrVicchio]

Hey, if you're not gonn ashoot me, and I DO have gun, I don't care. Thats easy pickings.

I am TRYING to illustrate a point that seems to be far too deep for some.

Take away guns as you say Abraxxas, In your foolhearty attempt at a gun free utopia, and what will happen? The bad guys will just get thier guns illegally, cause there is NO WAY in hell you are gonna rid the entire world of guns, and viola! You now have an unarmed populace facing armed Perps!

Your stick.. HA

You gotta a dog? You HAD a dog..

You gonna hide in the corner? What about your wife and daughter? What happens if that guy happens to like raping while he robs?

You feel safe where you livE? Great, wonderful, you think your area will always be safe? You are a fool. It may always be safe, but then again.... what happens then? You move?

[Navaron]

Let's say my PSU addiction leads me to theft and B&E. None of your sticks or golf clubs are gonna stop me because I know Tae Kwon Do. Say we do outlaw guns. Then what will be the weapon of choice in 10 years, knives, bats.... then we outlaw every conceivable weapon.....I CAN STILL KILL YOU. Martial arts gonna be next? Then what? Making fists?

The other problem I see here, is we have a bunch of men here. I'm getting a shotgun when I move, not for me, but for my significant other to protect herself. I don't care how badass you are, a 12 gauge is gonna make you change your mind.

God made all men free, Samuel Colt made all men equal.

[OneManArmy]

:stupid: :thumbsup:

[Lexington_Steele]

Originally posted by OneManArmy
well then, I can proudly say I'm glad to live in the USA where I can defend myself however I see fit and not get screwed just for protecting me and my family.

Not if your firearm is not propperly registered.

I used to work with a guy who was recently relased on house arrest (complete with ankle bracelet). Three guys with weapons tried to jump him. He pulled out a gun and shot all three of them. He killed two and injured the third. He did not have a licence to carry the firearm. He was convicted of manslaughter.

If you don't follow the propper procedures you are going to catch major charges in the US. The court system does not joke around when it comes to illegal or impropper use of firearms.

If someone runs up in your house and you kill them with an unregistered firearm, you are going to jail, end of story.

[chopstickz]

Unarmed police isn't a problem in the UK, within minutes of a call an armed response team with SMG's can be on the scene. Crime is not proportionaly any worse in America but there is a higher chance that a criminal can be armed and hence the need for armed officers in the US and I can see why law abiding citizens might want to be armed.


I can see where your coming from but do you really feel that unsafe in your own home that you NEED a gun?

[Navaron]

Lex

:stupid:

It's not like it's all that difiicult to register your heater here in the US. Where I live they just tacked on an automatic 5 years for any crime (including traffic violations) that involve and illegal firearm. People who don't register their guns are the one's you have to worry about.

[ABRAXAAS]

I completely understand what your saying, but the fact is there are places in the world where owning a gun is not neccessary, its simple.

If you feel you need one to protect yourself and your family I feel sorry for you.

But you are right about criminals always having guns. but if guns were flat out illegal, only the hardest of criminals would have em .and there probably not going to waste type mugging your fammily

:D

[Navaron]

No one answered my question about the 2nd amendment.

[chopstickz]

But you are right about criminals always having guns. but if guns were flat out illegal, only the hardest of criminals would have em .and there probably not going to waste type mugging your fammily

exactly what happened in the UK

[Lexington_Steele]

Originally posted by chopstickz
I can see where your coming from but do you really feel that unsafe in your own home that you NEED a gun?
There are a number of things that come into play.

1) It is not that I don't feel safe in my home without a gun, it is that I feel more safe in my house with a gun. It gives me a good feeling to know that I can adequately protect my loveones if need be.

2) It is fun to have a gun. It is fun going to a shooting range with your own pride and joy instead of having to rent. It is fun taking pride in the mainainance of your precious ;). Why should I be deprived of this enjoyment and sense of pride?

3) Any legislation against guns does not remove the ability to purchase them. It merely increases the difiiculty of obtaining one. I can still get fully automatic weapons, however it just costs me alot more because I have to go through transfered ownership. Why make it more difficult to get a gun when everyone can still get one? Here you are keeping guns out of the hands of the casual owner, not the criminals or the crazy.

4) If for some reason the country is ever invaded, I'd like to know that I would not have to just lay down and die.

I feel it is important for everyone to have a proficiency in the defense weapon of their time. If this was a couple hundred years ago I would be an advocate for training in the use of a bow and and arrow, sword and pike.

[Lexington_Steele]

Originally posted by {BOHICA}Navaron
Lex

:stupid:

It's not like it's all that difiicult to register your heater here in the US. Where I live they just tacked on an automatic 5 years for any crime (including traffic violations) that involve and illegal firearm. People who don't register their guns are the one's you have to worry about.

There was a posts that brought to light the fact that in england you catch rough criminal charges if you shoot someone with an unregistered gun. The reply to that post was saying that that is why they love the US.

I was merely making sure that there was no confusion and that if a similar scenario happened in the US (killing someone with an unregistered handgun) you would go to jail.

Do you worry about me? My first handgun was unregistered. ;) (btw, I no longer have that gun)

[Bighoss]

guns don't kill people... I kill people.

Anyway guns don't kill anyone very few deaths are caused from guns. probauly 20 a year at most.

[OneManArmy]

I understand facing criminal charges for shooting people with an unregistered gun, I'm glad to live in a country where its easy to register and own a gun. Theres no reason to have a gun and NOT have it registered, that should be common sense.. well unless you're a criminal...


Don't forget which country asked for whos guns during a certain war?? (thats right folks britain begged for US civilains to send them thier guns so they could protect themselves. during WWII I think...)

[Bighoss]

it would be impossible to invade texas on on foot:D

[chopstickz]

Ah that was the public. bunch of softies:D Im not surprised Britain used some US guns. Still happens today. The British Army, especially special forces prefer M16's cos the SA80(pictured in avatar is poo:(

[Lexington_Steele]

I am kinda upset that I was not the first person to fire my babies due to gun law. :(

[Sputty]

The C7A1 assault rifle is an improved version of the basic C7 combat rifle, incorporating a low-mounted optical sight. The C7 rifle is a Canadian adaptation of a U.S. firearm known as the M16A1E1. The C7A1 eliminates the carrying handle of the C7 and substitutes an optical sight. The C7A1 assault rifle is the personal weapon for most soldiers in Canada and outside the country.
Heh, I was bored and decided to post that as you were talking aobut other countires using M16s. http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/LF/equip/wpn/C7_E.HTML

[Derv]

You people should watch the movie Bowling for Columbine. I found it to be a very interesting and informative documentary.