Can Endgame/Metagame help drive PS2 to continued success?

[Asp]

In whatever form PS2 takes (PS clone, modern day, near future) how do you re-establish that base of players and hold onto them? To me the biggest advantage PS had over any other shooter was the scale of the battles, hundreds of players and vehicles all fighting over a massive area.

Is that enough though to keep people paying, month after month, even if you don't make disastrous design decisions? Maybe.

Assume for simplicity PS2 is an updated PS clone with no BFRs, no core combat. Old and new weapons and vehicles are introduced, graphics and engine updates, everything seems balanced. How do you keep people playing and grow the number of players you have?

Achievements are no brainers and they're in most shooters now anyway, so that or expanded stats tracking would be nothing revolutionary for PS2.

Can you create motivation in the game for outfits to fight and defend land? The seasaw back and forth of continent hacks eventually becomes about as meaningful as your next instanced game of BF2 or Quake..

Is there a way to make some form of an resource economy work? This doesn't have to mean gold or credits specifically. The idea being give continents or land players will fight over some value; some resource they require. Allow player factions and outfits to control territory (control over bases/towers, construction of outfit outposts) to protect those resources, and you give a sense of personal stake in fighting the opposite faction(s). Not just the sense that they're tagging along continent hopping to slip into a big battle already in progress.

Expansion of player abilities, deployables, equipment. Allow outfits to control a base, and even modify it. They can add to the defenses of the base, or once conquered, maybe they're responsible for establishing the defenses period. How those resources or land connect to a benefit to the factions/outfits would define how your economy works. I'm not sure players actually crafting/supplying equipment/weapons in the game would work; but it would be a possible missing piece in the economy circle. Hold the land, get the resources, make the equipment, to hold the land, etc etc..

While the two can't be compared equally, the one thing EVE Online does really well is politics. The game is setup for players to control area and resources that inevitably lead to some huge player created conflicts.

An economy of crafting and coins may not be feasible. Though the idea of giving a personal stake to groups of players to not only attack and run off to the next fight, but to hold territory and defend it in a permanent game setting.. That would be a huge leap forward for any FPS out there today. The FPS of an updated PS, with the metagame of EVE would be wild.

Any ideas on how to get players motivated to go to war? :D

[Firefly]

I played because it was never-ending nonstop battles. I played because I didn't have to worry about the match ending. I played because the leveling system only meant unlocking more weapons - a BR1 could theoretically still gun down a BR20. I played because of the game mechanics and the possibilities of virtually limitless tactics and strategies.

I believe there's a time and a place for "e-sports" shooters, and indeed I have fun with the ones which interest me. However, those games have an entirely different set of tactics and strategies. Planetside brough something to the table the likes of which have never been seen before.

I could take two squads of BR5s, arm them with Suppressors and Standard Armour, and using the lessons we learned and the tactics we developed, we could practically decimate competition if we chose our battles and our battlefields. I recall a "Pajama Party" that my outfit ran, where we had three full squads using aforementioned Suppressors and Standard Armour. In addition to the kills we racked up, we also dropped a Vanguard tank and a Reaver.

I can't recall having ever reached "end-game", where an empire was Sanc-locked. I know I was Sanc-locked on more than one occasion, and I'd hear every now and then that the TR managed to Sanc-lock someone but I was never on so it was second-hand hearsay to me.

An economy in an FPS is about as useless as tits on a bull. Really, what the fuck do I need economy and crafting for? That's my opinion and I'm open to having my mind changed by coherent, rational, valid and interesting arguments.

The biggest problem with Planetside, for me, was the stunning lack of marketing, support and the overabundance of attempts to after-birth abort the game by the company that created it. I got tired of trying to get people interested in playing that had never heard of the game. I was also turned off by SOE's decisions to pull developers off a perfectly playable game so they could make more expansions for some nerdy elf game.

Core Combat isn't so bad. It was hyped to be urban combat, close quarters battle, but it wasn't. It was just a different playing field for the same run-and-gun. Unfortunately, I don't really see a purpose to it aside from maybe some base benefits.

From the beginning, I was all for BFRs. And initially they were very interesting. But the waffling back and forth on their mechanics, function, design... coupled with the poor implementation... followed by the utter disregard for player feedback and complaints, and the subsequent nerfing all to hell made them a revolting pariah to me. When I first heard about them, I had hoped they could be used like BattleMechs. When they were used as base door-camping, in spite of the fact that something that large shouldn't even be inside a base, it ruined the fun for me and I started avoiding them. This gave way to "revenge syndrome" and I set out with my outfit to figure out how a squad of infantry on foot could utterly destroy something that required so much resources just to drive.

To me, Planetside is about truly massive battles. Take your 32-person server with a 15-minute game and get bent. Why would I settle for the same people using the same tactic for 15 minutes when I could literally spend 8 hours online at a stretch and repeat the same tactics maybe once or twice in that entire span? Unfortunately, with dwindling numbers due to a flagrant lack of care and concern for the ONLY MMO-FPS in existence...

[DviddLeff]

Don't forget WWIIO; that is most defiantly a MMOFPS, and the first one released (and its about to get a massive graphics update).

Back to PS, one of the thing PS lacked were long term objectives for the empire or an outfit.

It did have a decent and extensive character progression system, which would take a new player months of casual play to reach BR20, and even longer to achieve CR5. PS also finally had merits, which were some damned good achievement rewards.

PS did daily empire objectives very well; capture the base and the continent to "win".

Empires could also have long term goals; already empires get rewards for capturing various continents, but this is short term, able to be decided in a matter of hours. Empires could work to hold their ground, and they longer they hold it the more resources the empire earns, allowing them to access newly designed equipment a week or so before the other empires if they beat the enemy factions to a set limit. This would obviously require more substantial developer presence and support.

However, long term you find yourself not caring about the empire, and just start caring about where the next big fight will be, and where the most fun can be had, which has resulted in the "zerg" not following the rare good advice from the legions of CR5s and just heading straight for the biggest stalemate they can find.

Outfits could and should be the driving force of the game; running events, organised operations and the like, and outfits should be rewarded for doing so; give them designations to reflect their size (active players) and success to start with. Then you can start giving them things to burn those outfit points on and attract players to their ranks; buying bases and then upgrades, purchasing super vehicles (mobile bases or huge tanks and aircraft) or just allowing them to alter their armour in some way. You could make outfit rank change a players armour, making player given promotions something to be proud of (obviously have to limit those in top ranks somehow). Outfits could buy barracks in sanctuary, essentially a place to hang out and train, recruit new players and display trophies from their conquests. Outfits could be awarded trophies based on how many bases they capture, and like the knife kills from BF2142, they could get a permanent record of which enemy outfits bases they have taken.

Many, many people have left PS over the years, the next MMOFPS must retain the players it starts with for longer, and must also initially attract a much larger audience; if memory serves the original 5 servers were NEVER full, and probably could have been merged, at least east coast to east coast and west coast to west coast, within a few months of release.

Giving players, outfits and empires short, mid and long term goals is one of the key things PS2 needs to achieve, and coupled with marketing and a healthy post release development scheme it can do well.

[Hamma]

I think an economy does have a little bit of a place in an MMO FPS. It gives more incentive to hold territory and a feeling of loss if you lose it.

Because really now if you lose a continent who cares? You don't really lose anything. If it isn't an economy there needs to be something to persuade people to attack and hold territory.

[Asp]

Economy might have been a bad choice of words.. It's not about picking weeds or getting gold.. It's about creating a rationale for playing the game aside from simply random firefights, no matter how large.. In other MMOs the "economy" in whatever form is the motivator for a lot of what players do. In EVE it's also a convenient tool, indirectly, for going to war.
Like DviddLeff suggested, the devs could design interesting ways to get people fighting, but the more your game mechanics put it in the hands of the players, the more you can focus on other aspects of the game.

So, economy isn't the best term for it, but the thought behind this thread was ideas (if SOE is watching) for in game triggers to fight. :) Mechanics they can develop into the game to incentivize campaigns and big battles.

[Baneblade]

Rage, Religion, and Resources. Those are the cornerstones of war. Every war has at least one of those as the cause.

The wars in PS are a bit too arbitrary, but given it was designed as an MMOFPS and not an MMORPFPS, I can understand why resources were not really put in. I don't consider different base bonuses to be resources and NTU is too indirect and plentiful to be considered a resource to fight for (besides the fact its impossible to really control).

[Manitou]

Rage, Religion, and Resources. Those are the cornerstones of war. Every war has at least one of those as the cause.

These three are rooted in one concept: greed. The greatest motivator on the planet (any planet) is greed.

If you find a balanced way to meet that desire in this game with some type of outfit reward, you will find you have a game that will persistently hold interest.

[Hamma]

An economy in an FPS is about as useless as tits on a bull. Really, what the fuck do I need economy and crafting for? That's my opinion and I'm open to having my mind changed by coherent, rational, valid and interesting arguments.
There has to be incentive. In PS now there is pretty much zero incentive to do anything. You need greed, and an incentive to drive war it's the trademark.

An economy in an FPS is useless as tits on a bull HOWEVER, in an MMO FPS which is what this would be there has to be something else to drive gameplay, it can't just be an FPS with more people.

[DviddLeff]

Remember that there was and is again the desire to earn XP, which is what drives fights currently into the large scale zergs that steamroll bases in quick succession, or drag fights out to get lots of kills.

For a year or so before they upped it to 25 and then to 40 the main thing that drove the fights were fun, and then strategic choices, but then there was little reason to take bases so fun was the main factor.

[Kyonye]

You can go past BR20 now?

[Hamma]

Aye it's going to 40 now.

[JackEarthrider]

If you do implement a economy into a shooter you must make sure above all else that their is not a fun killing grind to it. The moment you start requiring ppl to be harvesting for more than a single sitting is the moment the fun killing will set in.

To summarize:
Resource gathering, yes
Some form of customization/crafting, yes

Overpowered customization, no (that will lead to everyone needing it)
Progressive resource costs, only to a point (make it interesting, but not long)

Base customization, sure, but only if its not a days to build minutes to destroy kinda thing or no one will bother.


Those are just my thoughts on the matter, im new to this game but I've played very many others.

[Sifer2]

I think this is the single most important topic when it comes to Planetside Next. Next to making the game free to play on some level there is no other thing SOE can do that will improve the number of people playing it than to focus on making a deep metagame.

There has to be a hook of some kind to motivate people to keep playing an to make them feel like there is some progress. For instance in WoW the hook would be better gear for your character as you beat the latest new dungeons with your guild. That obviously wont work for Planetside. Someone mentioned Eve and yes I think we could probably learn a little more from Eve since its a more player vs player driven game.

I think they really need to give Outfits a way to advance an grow an improve over time. And they may need to make areas that can be taken over that are more permanent than the standard bases which switch sides fairly easily. For example their could be cities which kind of act like Sanctuaries now that are significantly harder to take over requiring weeks of work. I dunno if economics could play a role in this system but its work thinking about.

After all the Empires must fight over something tangible. Players should always want to go out an kick ass to improve themselves and their faction an it should continue long after your max rank. I just regret that I am drawing blanks here as to how it should work haha.

[Firefly]

No. No fucking economy, period. No gathering flowers. No gathering scrap metal. No weapons-making, no farming, no resource gathering. No taking PvE missions for money. None of that shit.

You put any kind of commodity in a game, and the fucking Chinese and Koreans will abuse those free accounts and spam the living fuck out of you saying "BUY MY PLAT! WWW.WEBSITE.COM CHEAP AND FAST!"

Fuck that. I fucking hate - I *HATE* I HATE I HATE - gold-spammers. You want to kill my interest in a game? Allow Hong Xiaopeng and Ji Jen-kim to come in with their army of mindless workerbees and abuse free trials out the ass. It's bad enough I had to fucking endure Smiley777 and GODJOEY spamming global broadcasts with their horse shit, and it's bad enough that I had to endure free-trial spammers causing havoc in chat.

[JackEarthrider]

you must really hate free trial people.

But even if resources are a no, you gotta admit the game does need something tangible to take or acquire (even if that isn't necessarily resources).

What some games do is a have a special zone where you can take bases/forts that give you some sort of special advantage/item/resource whatever for taking and holding them. But within the zone, re-spawns are harder to come by, terrain is more difficult, and bases are more spread out.

Basically it would be a no mans land with extra difficulty but extra reward. (sorta like wilderness in a few other games, you get the point).

Anyway, those are just some thoughts, i'm mostly from an MMO background so I have trouble thinking FPS style.

[Baneblade]

No. No fucking economy, period. No gathering flowers. No gathering scrap metal. No weapons-making, no farming, no resource gathering. No taking PvE missions for money. None of that shit.

You put any kind of commodity in a game, and the fucking Chinese and Koreans will abuse those free accounts and spam the living fuck out of you saying "BUY MY PLAT! WWW.WEBSITE.COM CHEAP AND FAST!"

Fuck that. I fucking hate - I *HATE* I HATE I HATE - gold-spammers. You want to kill my interest in a game? Allow Hong Xiaopeng and Ji Jen-kim to come in with their army of mindless workerbees and abuse free trials out the ass. It's bad enough I had to fucking endure Smiley777 and GODJOEY spamming global broadcasts with their horse shit, and it's bad enough that I had to endure free-trial spammers causing havoc in chat.

A game economy doesn't need money to work. Take NTU for example. Expand what you can use it for in more diverse applications. Add it is a fuel source to vehicles, etc. Make it necessary to maintain NTU supply lines and I don't mean making ANT runs a constant need.

[Firefly]

you must really hate free trial people.

No, just gold-sellers.

[Sifer2]

No, just gold-sellers.


Well the thing about gold sellers is they are typically just poor asians doing it as a job. And are often bad at the game itself. Because of this they typically are not a problem in PvP focused games cause there are those that will just hunt them down an kill them for kicks an free gold. Since we can be certain Planetside Next will probably not have any PvE zones an will have you vulnerable to the other faction all the time I don't see them being any issue if there was an economy. Besides I think if there was an economy the farming work might be automated by machines an controllable structures anyway.

[Firefly]

I really don't care if it's their job. And they're all level one and they all stay in safe zones so you can't kill them.

JUST SAY NO TO ECONOMY

[Furret]

Firefly, I mostly agree with you.

If theres an economy though, the only way you should be able to gain Empire (Gold, lets call it just for the sake of argument) Gold is by taking bases, or Outfit Gold if someone in your outfit gains a CR level. If your outfit is the only involved with taking the base, your Outfit gains half the amount of Gold that your empire does.

I absolutely agree, however, that resource gathering cannot be a part of of an FPS. Actually though, now that I think of it, making ANT runs to the nearest warpgate could be called resource gathering. But maybe if the resource gathering was not beneficial to anything or anybody except yourself. Maybe a global shop at each sanctuary, where any resources you collected could be used to buy ONLY ITEMS THAT WOULD CHANGE THE LOOK OF YOUR CHARACTER. The market would also be run by the game, and there are no rising or falling of prices, and if tons of people buy item A, Item A doesn't run out of stock.

Thats going fairly far out on a limb, and I think that if any character personalization items are to be for sale, you should have to pay real money for them.

[ANaKeR]

No economy.

Keep the game the way it is. An economy would change the game too much and would take the focus away from it as a First Person Shooter.

[Tikuto]

Here to shoot and kill and not to share cock-rings on an in-game auction.

No economy please. Wouldn't be PlanetSide with that in it.

[Furret]

It would be appreciated if you guys read what people post instead of just sayin "no economy."

I'm not sure what the reference of 'cock-ring sharing' was, but the economy wouldn't really be player-driven.

Nobody is actually interacting with each other, the only thing that you can do with the economy is buy.

The two ways to affect the economy would be pretty simple.

The more land, bases, or continents you own, the more stuff is available for your character, outfit, and empire to buy.

The more your character, outfit, and empire does (specifically taking bases, taking continents), the more money your character, outfit, or empire has to buy the available equipment.

Since it seems that everyone is against having an economy, The things you can buy shouldn't affect the gameplay, just the way characters and bases look.

For example, you and your outfit successfully take a base. Because you were the hacker that hacked the CC, you gain, lets say, 500 gold. You go to the equipment terminal, and buy a 'Base Hacker' (500 gold) patch, that shows up as a colored ring on your ankle/wrist. This doesn't change you or your enemies ability to fire a gun, it just shows your empire (and enemies) that you've hacked a base. Now lets also say, you were the leader of the outfit that took the base. Depending on the percentage of involvement of people in your outfit vs. people who are not in your outfit, you gain a representative amount of Outfit gold. With the outfit gold you recieved, you buy a 1 day outfit emblem, so that everyone in your outfit has a symbol (of your choice) on their shoulder. Again, gameplay is not affected, you are just recognized as someone in the outfit.

There are also multiple ways this could be expanded, depending on new ideas that aren't in PlanetSide, but have been mentioned on this forum.

If you have a "General of the Army", or someone who has supreme control over the empire, he could have Empire gold, and could use it to buy things for the empire. However, if there were to be Empire gold, it would most likely start to affect the gameplay. However, the Empire gold cant be 'farmed' and no single player could gain enough Empire gold to make a difference. For instance, the GoA could buy extra turrets for a base under siege, or a small outpost to better defend a narrow canyon or other choke point. These Empire gold bought would be completely destructable (once their bar is depleted, they not only go offline, but EXPLODE... The gold is then gone, and more has to be won in order to rebuild the structure.

Also, the 'constructables' could have timers, depending on how much money you bought them for.

Lastly, as a game modifier to make people want to work in squads, you could have a 1.5x exp/gold bonus for being in a full squad, and a 2x exp/gold bonus for being in a full platoon.

Also, outfits could gain 1.25x Outfit exp/Outfit gold for having an all-outfit squad, and 1.5x for a full platoon.

I'm not sure if exp bonuses are already set up in PlanetSide, but a gold bonus would be another incentive to join up in a squad.

Quick recap, gold doesn't affect the gameplay at all, just changes the way your character looks.

[Tikuto]

An economy in PlanetSide would easily get the NO vote. It wouldn't be welcomed at all by the majority including me.



To summarize:
Resource gathering, yes
Some form of customization/crafting, yes

Overpowered customization, no (that will lead to everyone needing it)
Progressive resource costs, only to a point (make it interesting, but not long)

Base customization, sure, but only if its not a days to build minutes to destroy kinda thing or no one will bother.However, resource-gathering sounds interesting. I thought of this before in another thread. Each Empire gathers resources from somewhere to be able to trigger events like temporarily allowing BFRs or huge flying Behemoths of the sky, or maybe fortify the Empires home-land (Sancutary); something like Warhammer Online's city-ranks.

[Furret]

resource gathering would be stupid in an FPS, if there was resource gathering it should only be to benefit the empire as a whole, not the person who was gathering the resources.

Maybe an exp bonus

[Tikuto]

resource gathering would be stupid in an FPS, if there was resource gathering it should only be to benefit the empire as a whole, not the person who was gathering the resources.

Maybe an exp bonusThat's what I mean. Empire global objectives gathering resources somehow like using old Teraforming facilities, new resource-gathering facilities, remote player-contructed camps to gather resources, ownership of a Cavern, Oil rigs and so-on. these goals would be on the side of our minds and we wouldn't frequently actively compete for the resources. We'd just be fighting and winning, and--OH We have enough resources to set an Empire-wide player-triggered super-Event.

[Kumoblade]

No economy.

Keep the game the way it is. An economy would change the game too much and would take the focus away from it as a First Person Shooter.

Keep the game the way it is?

Then that would keep the population the way it is. In a Pathetic state.

If people aren't willing to change or adapt to newer games then stay playing this one if thats all you want.

However, you have to look at the fact that PlanetSide Next won't stand on its own 2 legs if its Modelled the same way as PlanetSide was.

Now a days People want MORE. There has to be another element of gameplay besides go shoot someone's face off in a Mindless war of no dominance.

If you're happy with PlanetSide, thats great, play PlanetSide. However, modelling a Next Gen Game after a 6 year old game is a STUPID MOVE. It's got to have more selling points than Counter-Strike, COD4, Global Agenda, UT3, etc... Games which offer "First Person Shooter" Elements, and Global Agenda appearing to be setting the bar for what may classify as an MMOFPS (which I really don't think it is).

Personally, I don't think there should be an Out-of-Outfit trade economy.

I think games like Mafia Wars for facebook did a damn good job on how an economy should be, or hell, even Borderlands. I think there should be a Salary provided to your character based on your Battle Rank/Command Rank/Achievements. And I think there should be an Upkeep on what kind of gear/items you want to use and you purchase/sell upgrades and such from Outfit Vendors/Faction Vendors and be rid of character trading all together. Then other players can go to said vendors and find items that others have sold there and are for sale. No player setting prices BS.

Also, I think there should be a salvage yard where you can drop off salvaged items you've picked up which are used for upgrading empire cities/outfits/garages, etc.. to provide Outfits and/or Empires with more available and better upgrades for vehicles, weapons, etc...

[Furret]

I think a salary would be an interesting concept to add to PSN.

Though, i'm of the opinion that while there should be an economy in PlanetSide Next, it should be completely controlled by the 'government'. An economy would definitely set PSN apart from other games of its genre (again), SOE would have to implement it correctly. Players should have little to no control over prices.
Most everyone who is in favor of an economy is also in favor of having a computer program control the economy.

[Kumoblade]

I think a salary would be an interesting concept to add to PSN.

Though, i'm of the opinion that while there should be an economy in PlanetSide Next, it should be completely controlled by the 'government'. An economy would definitely set PSN apart from other games of its genre (again), SOE would have to implement it correctly. Players should have little to no control over prices.
Most everyone who is in favor of an economy is also in favor of having a computer program control the economy.

With good reason. People are assholes when you give them any amount of power/control over an economy. Look at HP who made 1.9 billion in 12 weeks, and turned around and gave all their employees paycuts in a poor economic situation, and plan for more paycuts next year. =P.

3rd Party NPCs and governments should control the economy. Big wig super corporations, black market dealerships, etc.. etc..

Honestly, I'm all for just more interactivity. We have First Person Shooter games. PS:Next needs something to set it apart. What if engineers could sabotage enemy vehicles? Stealth in and plant bombs on vehicles so when they're started up, they go boom, or they break down after so long of driving. Tear important components out and reverse engineer them so your Outfit can implement cross-faction parts in their vehicles, etc...

What if Hackers could download valuable data from enemy terminals to assist in getting plans/upgrades to make for your own faction. Or turn on a Gas switch to flush the enemy spawn room with carbon Monoxide to poison them when capturing a base, or locking doors/unlocking others from a remote terminal associated with a base? What if you could engage in hacking warfare with other hackers? What if you could hack medical terminals to inject poison into people instead of healing them?

What if infiltrators could don enemy uniforms, sneak in and steal vital information from terminals?

A race to new technologies founded on spying/hacking/engineering/chop shopping/and salvaging. An economy and warfare based on a race to beat the other factions to new weapons and vehicles and gear while the other factions tries to prevent advancement and sabotage advancements you make.

With so much to do, you could get quite an amount of diversity in a FPS while having hundreds of soldiers on the field of battle with something worth fighting for.

[Sifer2]

I agree with what kumoblade said above. All you people so against the idea of any economy do need to realize that if Planetside is not changed in the sequel its unlikely to do any better than the first did. I am sure SOE themselves realize this an we need to come to grips with that.

Anyway yeah when it comes down it I too kind of prefer more of a global system than an individual system. Where gathering resources might benefit you somewhat but is mostly about improving your factions supplies of equipment an such. Similar to how ANT's work powering bases for everyone. I don't think anyone is asking for a world of warcraft style auction house.

[Furret]

Yes, I absolutely agree with Kumo here.

If anything is added to PlanetSide, It should either be to improve on parts that were already in PS 1, or something to set apart PSN from other MMOFPS's.

It's got to be difficult to put all of the stuf he's suggested into a game, but SOE did it back in 2001, they can do it again.

Basically, PlanetSide's success mostly due to the fact that there was so much to do. All of the above are good ideas, SOE just has to implement them properly.

And don't you think this forum's spell check ought to have SOE and PlanetSide in it's dictionary? Fairly common words 'round these parts.

[ANaKeR]

The reason I think there should be no economy is because I believe its a step in the wrong direction for this game. More effort should be put into developing the game so that the FPS component is always changing as opposed to adding a an economy which is completely independent from FPS.

For example, have unlockable features for your weapons that are gained through achievements (consider the weapon variations in Team Fortress 2)
[I'll be writing an article on this idea soon]

[Firefly]

"NO ECONOMY" means exactly that.

No fucking economy. It's a goddamn shooter. You get a gun, you go shoot shit, and you fight-die-respawn. The end.

No consumables. No crafting, no fabricating, no making shit. No commodities. No "cash for clunkers". No auction house. Anything that would allow people to log in, sit in the fucking Sanctuary and farm materials - whether it's NTUs, bullet casings, scrap metal, salvaged gear - keep it the fuck out of an FPS. The last thing I want are econo-whores, gold-farmers, and gold-selling spammers.

Keep it simple. Planetside + better graphics, no BFRs, and naval combat.

[Kumoblade]

"NO ECONOMY" means exactly that.

No fucking economy. It's a goddamn shooter. You get a gun, you go shoot shit, and you fight-die-respawn. The end.

No consumables. No crafting, no fabricating, no making shit. No commodities. No "cash for clunkers". No auction house. Anything that would allow people to log in, sit in the fucking Sanctuary and farm materials - whether it's NTUs, bullet casings, scrap metal, salvaged gear - keep it the fuck out of an FPS. The last thing I want are econo-whores, gold-farmers, and gold-selling spammers.

Keep it simple. Planetside + better graphics, no BFRs, and naval combat.

Its very reassuring to know that Sony will most likely not take this approach, as it would Doom PlanetSide Next to the same fate as PlanetSide. A hack ridden unsupported game.

But hey, At least a new failed game would make ^^^ happy. If your Crusade against anything with an Economy/Dynamic changes would successful it would spell disaster that would make Richard Garriott laugh his ass off and think about making Tabula Rasa 2.

If you got your way though, I hope Sony would save us some face and just put on the packaging of PS: Next "Its Planetside...With better graphics!" so the ones who really hope for a new PlanetSide game don't have to worry about picking it up. =P

[Firefly]

Riiiiight... Planetside failed because it had no economy.

[Kumoblade]

Riiiiight... Planetside failed because it had no economy.

Wow..... No, it failed because it was 20, no 25, no 40 battle ranks of the same thing over and over with no support, a crappy expansion and then giant robots when barely anybody was left to care.

Whether Planetside was released 6 years ago, 4 years ago, or even in 2 years with just "better graphics" The outcome would be the same.

But I guess I can't say it really failed. It's still up and kicking. but with an abyssmal population.

Never once did I say planetside failed because it didn't have an economy. I said it failed because of what it is. 20+ battle ranks of the exact same thing over and over and over. It was fun for a long while, but it eventually gets old.

Having things to do, objectives, a goal will keep people playing. Having an economy may make you angry and upset, but unless you're willing to pay Sony for all the profit it would lose by NOT having an economy, its probably going to be the way it goes as it will bring Sony money which is what they want. And its what a lot of gamers want as well, with the exception of a few right-wingers who are afraid of change.

And you still can't deny that PlanetSide Next, should it be just PlanetSide with better graphics, would end up in the same bargain bin as PlanetSide.

Good on you for having such Fervor about PlanetSide and wanting to clone it, but after 6 years, it tastes kind of bland, and needs a new flavor.

[DviddLeff]

While I agree with Kumo that PS with simply better graphics would still do poorly, I do not think that putting an economy into the game would make it better in any way, and would likely harm it.

I fear that an economy would simply set new players apart from established ones and then break the best feature about PS, the fact that new players can stand toe to toe with veterans and have a fair chance of beating them.

However Planetside did have sub standard graphics at the time of release which did harm it; but it is an MMO, and graphics have to be sacrificed to make the thing work, which is something a lot of FPS players cant cope to lose.

Remember that Planetside was NOT as successful as it could have been, almost immediately after beta there were not enough players to fill up the available continents, so we saw the lattice confine players to a handful of continents at a time and pop caps reduced to spread out the player base; perhaps it would have been better if they had merged the East and West coast servers within a few months after release, as there were never enough players to fill it up.

The major problem with the game was lack of support; yes there was a poor expansion (6 months after launch; it was already in the works as release came about) and then BFRs fucked the whole thing over further. After that updates were few and far between, never changing the game enough to detract from the same base and tower fights again and again.

The game needs more depth for all players, and the best way is perhaps is to give the tools to add that depth to the players; get them to create their own bases, develop their own weapons and vehicles and stamp their mark on the world.

[Kumoblade]

The game needs more depth for all players, and the best way is perhaps is to give the tools to add that depth to the players; get them to create their own bases, develop their own weapons and vehicles and stamp their mark on the world.

Unfortunately, by FireFly's logic, anything crafting, creating or developing is Economy and PlanetSide Next should have none of it.

I don't see it as that, as I've stated in several other threads.

I'm opposed to Out of outfit trading. There should be personal Lockers and Outfit Lockers where you can store your stuff. Building/creating/crafting/whatever for you and your outfit doesn't amount to economy. And if anything is bought or sold, it should be through Strictly NPC vendors.


There is so much PlanetSide could do for the next Release in the series. I hope Smedley can see its faults and know where to pick it up. He's openly admitted admiring various other competitor's games, and its admirable for him to appreciate them.

I just hope he can take what he's gained/learned and put it into the next game which may have meaningful journey and endgame.

Playing PlanetSide with its few bases and no reason to fight is just like playing CS-office, CS-office2, CS-Office 3 over and over, except it requires a subscription to do so. The only thing different about taking the different bases is a color palette swap.

[DviddLeff]

Don't forget that many games now have persistent character development even when they are not an MMO (many of them claim they are an MMO only because of this however), allowing their players to level up, unlock new equipment etc and all without a subscription.

All PS has is the massive battles to stand apart.

[Kumoblade]

Aye, PlanetSide did/still does have massive battles. Thats a blessing and a curse depending on what end of barrel you're on. In Massive battles, the fights require lots of patience. Post-Surgiles (oh God I miss it) will find themselves getting mowed down by tons of gunfire as they go charging in, respawn/repeat and eat it again.

Thus, largescale fights can get quite frustrating. As an Adamant Surge addict, I loved a run and gun gamestyle that Surging provided, and I did find myself getting frustrated in aggressive combat styles before having to hold myself back. Watching that death respawn timer growing and growing got old ha ha.

This also applies if you're getting stomped, etc.. and you feel every respawn is more of the game than the action is, be it being outnumbered 3/1 and your comrades are giving up and going elsewhere, etc...


that's the nature of the beast though with large battles. I'm a guy coming from Doing great in Unreal tournament series and quake to a more tactical version of this game (post surgile) where dodging/avoiding gunfire isn't based on your reflexes as you move so slowly when out in the open you're just dead meat.

Anyways, I don't know where I was going with that other than to bring it up as i'm a bit absent minded due to Server training. ha ha. But yes, PlanetSide does have large battles going for it.

As well, many games are trying to market themselves as MMOs which are merely instances with an interactive lobby. The interactive lobby is what they feel merits a subscsription instead of it being a client Side GUI with Host/Client setup independently for each game.

Its just them trying to cash in on stupidity, fortunately, its a failing marketting scheme. CrimeCraft has done Absolutely HORRIBLE with this marketting strategy. The same goes with Aurean's Fury if anybody remembers that game. Coincidentally both use the Unreal 3 engine. Fury was a PVP based lobby game that was so rediculously fast you couldn't keep up. it wasn't an FPS by any means. It was 3rd person action/combat in an RPG layout. It was atrocious.

I hope PlanetSide doesn't follow that scheme. But technically, thats what planetside was as well. an Interactive lobby (Sanctuary) with instanced battles. just very large instances that can support 100+ people per side. You couldn't fly between zones because they were all instances. same with the caves, as you had to be teleported down to them.

[DviddLeff]

Surgile! *Spits*

Nothing skilful about jumping through the roof of a corridor, landing behind the defenders and triple-shotting them in the spine.

Surgile would have been fine; if PS could handle the movement that fast at close quarters without impossible lag.

Before PS I played Counterstrike, but as a solo player, totally twitch based but without the speed of UT or even Quake; with no buddies to worry about it was all down to your skill.

In PS I put together one of the first all round outfits before even beta and can not now bring myself to play a multiplayer game without my outfit; it just feels empty without them.

The thing I particularly love about PS is the fact that there is the zerg; because it allows organised groups to work around it and make a difference, showing everyone else how the jobs done.

[Kumoblade]

Hate Surgiles all you want, but damn it, it was fun =P.

I never used surge to do the teleport exploit once i found out what was really going on. I just enjoyed the faster pace it gave me and allowed me to avoid heavy fire. It was great for making a surprise assault on enemies and closing distance on MA while wielding an HA weapon.

If anything, it felt great charging the enemies, dodging gunfire from all directions and handing their faces to them. It may have not been the greatest Strategy, but it sure did feel heroic when you could charge 3-4 guys with a MCG (Terran) and promptly dispatch them on an individual Pound-for-Pound level.

Reminds me of Revvy from Black Lagoon =P.

With better network management, I'd like to see Surge+Weapons again where the whole disappearing act is gone.

In some strategies, fast assault is needed for things such as flanking and punching a hole through enemy lines and catching them by surprise.

As A surgile, I liked to be the dagger in the back, instead of the army upfront. Nothing got my blood pumping like A Mosquito Bomb drop onto an Enemy base (Before you went into twisted 3rd person view D:) and being able to fire on the enemies as you dropped onto the top entrance and hit the ground sprinting, weaving in and out of enemies and just plowing through them before they know what hit em.

However, it was unfortunate for those who aren't prepared for that kind of gameplay, preferring a more slow combat and strategy as their reflexes couldn't keep up with those from more diversed FPS experiences.

It was that kind of Commando'esque combat that I love because I was tired of getting friendly fired by Joe'schmoe and his inability to pick targets properly =P.

That and I'm a total Shock-combo whore in Unreal >.>

Anyways, back on Topic, I hope Smedley will throw alot of effort into PS:Next. I want it to be suitable for various playstyles, but restrictive enough to not let people become 1-man armies who can do everything. There has to be a bigger role for various skills beyond supporting blowing someone's face off.

i would prefer if hackers actually had to engage in mini-games, and Engineers could sabotage enemy vehicles and facilities along with Medics.

A stealth medic who could pump an enemy full of Neurotoxins and really fuck with their mojo.

[Tikuto]

This old "Surgile" thing. I thought of an idea with Infiltrator some time ago with this "Surgile" in-mind.

Most players have Darklight feature on their helmet which they can activate whenever they want. In a reality-sense you'd expect Darklight not being a biological implant but, instead, more of an essential feature for infantry. Going invisible is a major advantage in food-chain and every1 could go invisible in PS with only 1 REXO, surrounded. This common universal military feature acts as counter-balance towards an ideally improved Infiltrator suit.
Infiltrator also gets Darklight on their helmet but can only be used when uncloaked.
EMP grenades can disable multiple player's Darklight as per usual.
Infiltrator has an in-built External Aerobic Bionic wormed around their suit to allow for "surging" around the scene, cloaked or uncloaked, which may also passively improve melee damage consequently. Suit that cloaks, moves fast and consequently improves melee damage.


Other implants: Second Wind, Regeneration, something else...
Hm...

[DviddLeff]

Regarding Surge and fast assault, ideally what I would like to see is agile armour scrapped (everyone spawns in Rexo) and it changed to be a jump jet equipped armour.

Then you have:

Standard (Pilot suit, used by pilots and drivers only)
Agile (Jump Jet, fast attack)
Rexo (standard armour, versatile)
MAX (heavy defence)

This would be tied into various weapon changes (scrapping HA and redoing it so it is balanced with other guns and is truly a close combat cert, rather than what it is currently) and limiting agile and standard to small weapons like SMGs or new light weapons which only really work at close quarters.

Anyway, we're going miles off topic!

Check out this supply concept from the idealab:

http://www.planetside-idealab.com//idea_ntu_changes.shtml

And empire tech levels:

http://www.planetside-idealab.com//idea_empire_levels.shtml