George Bush Slip Of The Tongue [Archive]

AeoNELiTe

2003-02-27, 01:43 PM

I once saw a press conference with Goerge Bushes voice dubbed over whatever he was actually saying, it was very well done, and he said how the US should bring tyrany and opression to the world and whatnot... pretty damn funny.

With that said, all you liberals aught to go learn what your talking about before commenting on politics with blanket statements like "war is bad" and "George Bush is an idiot" .... I think you people should just watch the FoX News channel and get some information to back your ideas ;)
And no, not information like "this is just like Vietnam, we gotta fight the man" because I live in New York and we DEFINATLY need to go to war and erradicate all this terrorist BS, because estimates on a small nuclear device going on in central Manhatten are about 600,000 dead..... ..... 600,000 PEOPLE. Thats reason enough to go to war with any country we damn well feel.......

Lexington_Steele

2003-02-27, 03:12 PM

Originally posted by MrVicchio
Good Lord,

STFU and GO AWAY

I was attempting to kill this thread by using another old, lame comment...

GO AWAY TROLL GO BACK TO WHENCE YE CAME.

Or go here and STFU, thank you:

http://www.etherzone.com/forum/index.php

All politics all the time

How was quoting Clinton going to kill the thread? That is quite a leap of logic you have there. What did Clinton's quote have to due with Bush calling someone an asshole? It seems like you are trying to run an anti-democrat smear campaign. Atleast my quotes were funny.

And somehow I am the one that should go to some other forum? (Just so you know, I have yet to start a political thread that was not purely for humor purposes)

How many political threads have you started. If I am a troll, you must be some kind of genetically engineered super troll.

ABRAXAAS

2003-02-27, 03:37 PM

Another thread being draged down by politics:(

MrVicchio

2003-02-27, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by Lexington_Steele
How was quoting Clinton going to kill the thread? That is quite a leap of logic you have there. What did Clinton's quote have to due with Bush calling someone an asshole? It seems like you are trying to run an anti-democrat smear campaign. Atleast my quotes were funny.

And somehow I am the one that should go to some other forum? (Just so you know, I have yet to start a political thread that was not purely for humor purposes)

How many political threads have you started. If I am a troll, you must be some kind of genetically engineered super troll.

Troll

ABRAXAAS

2003-02-27, 04:25 PM

Mr Vic , you and NAV are both just as much trollers as anyone else, so dont go there:love:

Derv

2003-02-27, 05:16 PM

Hey AeoNELiTe....
I think you people should just watch the FoX News channel and get some information to back your ideas
Ever heard of a thing called propaganda? You should watch the movie Bowling for Columbine, also, maybe that would clear up some of the ignorance that you have about politics.

Since "Dubya" wants to go to war he's going to do anything he can to try to get the people to think that it's a good idea to go to war. It's called manipulation. And I heard on NPR (National Puplic Radio) that Bush was talking about how he was a Christian and that he believed that God was with him to go and get rid of the "evil" Saddam Hussein. What a load of bullsh*t.

You can just tell that Bush is trying to get his hands on any miniscule thing that he can to send all the males between the ages of 18 and 30 (whatever the upper limit is to be able to fight in a war) into Iraq so that we can kill someone whom we have NO PROOF of nuclear/chemical/biological weapons, and suffer a lot of DEATHS in the process.

This doctrine that Bush has of a "Pre-emptive Counter Attack" MAKES NO SENSE! You can not COUNTER attack someone unless there is an attack, so it is a contradiction in itself because you can't pre-emptively make an attack on someone's attack when you don't know whether they will attack or not. He wants to Attack, not counter-attack.

And how about North Korea in all this. We KNOW that they are developing weapons, yet we are going to war with Iraq instead. We don't know if Iraq has weapons, yet we are providing North Korea with food at the same time because Kim Jong Il is a moron and has cut off all his agriculture by cutting off South Korea.

And finally, our economy is not looking so hot, just in case you didn't know. Why doesn't Bush ever address our economic situation? Instead he wants to go to war with Iraq and spend a sh*tload of money in the process, and even if we beat Iraq in a war, it will also cost a sh*tload of money to maintain our control over Iraq in the time that we plan on "reconstructing" it and making it "less threatening."

I have one last question to ask, Do you think that Bush would want us going to war with iraq if his two daughters wer males instead? I think not.

Navaron

2003-02-27, 05:16 PM

Trust me abrax, you don't want to play this game with me. I only flame fucktards like you guys when you need it. It's been quite a while.

Hamma

2003-02-27, 05:19 PM

Bush can do no wrong in some people's eyes.

Just like Clinton can do no wrong in other peoples eyes.

This is why I dont get involved in worthless political debates. :p

Hamma

2003-02-27, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by Derv
Since "Dubya" wants to go to war he's going to do anything he can to try to get the people to think that it's a good idea to go to war. It's called manipulation. And I heard on NPR (National Puplic Radio) that Bush was talking about how he was a Christian and that he believed that God was with him to go and get rid of the "evil" Saddam Hussein. What a load of bullsh*t. This worries me and this isnt the first place I have read that, just like his "faith based" initiatives. If there is anything I hate more than politics its religion. Mergint the 2 makes me want to puke :p

NCG JMan

2003-02-27, 05:34 PM

MrVicchio definitely has issues....WTH.....calling me a troll. Also a staff member behaving in this condescending manner worries me. On top of that, your the one who doesn't know how to relate to others with your nonsensical comments/post....I am the troll....hmmmm. I don't think so.

Here's an idea. If you wanted to kill the thread just tell others that you would like to kill this thread. Or delete it all together. That would have been the professional approach...not speaking to others in a condescending manner. Oh well. Hind sight....

Civilian

2003-02-27, 05:46 PM

MrVicchio definitely has issues....WTH.....calling me a troll.

It's painfully obvious that he wasn't talking to you.

Fire_Monkey

2003-02-27, 05:47 PM

blah blah blah more pollitical debates...I pwn you guys in political debates:D

God bush is a moron.;)

diluted

2003-02-27, 06:23 PM

ya im sick of it. fcking retarded anal political shitheads.

btw bush said "there should be limits to freedom" haha what a fuckface. hmm heres an idea be your own person not some party's puppet you bitches. <^> <^>

;)

Airlift

2003-02-27, 06:26 PM

Troll n. 'trOl - Anyone who disagrees with MrVicchio or expresses an opinion he doesn't like.

Hypocrite n. 'hi-p&-"krit - What MrVicchio is being on this thread by first trolling and then calling others out for the same.

OneManArmy

2003-02-27, 06:32 PM

this is just getting nuts, seems like this debate pops up everywhere now.

Hate to tell ya, but bush is not saying anything that any other ruler in history hasn't said before. Rulers always make sure it sounds like they are always right and that "god" or some other god is behind them. Bush is just another chapter in history, nothing new.

but tell me, who would you like to see as president? and what should we do about iraq?

diluted

2003-02-27, 06:34 PM

i dont have time to express my opinions and not like they matter anyway.

Navaron

2003-02-27, 06:42 PM

Wow people, this got evil, even for a political thread in the lounge.

Please mark your calenders - Navarone is saying this -

Spread the love!!!!

Arshune

2003-02-27, 06:46 PM

<breaks out the champagne and smooth jazz> I am prepared for to administer the love.

Zarparchior

2003-02-27, 06:49 PM

Originally posted by Hamma
This worries me and this isnt the first place I have read that, just like his "faith based" initiatives. If there is anything I hate more than politics its religion. Mergint the 2 makes me want to puke :p :nod:

I solemnly agree with you, Hamma.

Mr. Vicchio, I have the utmost respect for you...
Just not for your political views. :p

Derfud

2003-02-27, 06:54 PM

I got some bush quotes.

"The vast majority of our imports come from outside the country."
- George W. Bush

"If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure."
- George W. Bush

"One word sums up probably the responsibility of any Governor, and that one word is 'to be prepared'."
- Governor George W. Bush

"I have made good judgments in the past. I have made good judgments in the future."
- Governor George W. Bush

"The future will be better tomorrow."
- Governor George W. Bush

"We're going to have the best educated American people in the world."
- Governor George W. Bush

"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made."
- Governor George W. Bush

"We have a firm commitment to NATO, we are a part of NATO. We have a firm commitment to Europe. We are a part of Europe."
- Governor George W. Bush

"Public speaking is very easy."
- Governor George W. Bush

"A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls."
- Governor George W. Bush

"We are ready for any unforeseen event that may or may not occur."
- Governor George W. Bush

"For NASA, space is still a high priority."
- Governor George W. Bush

"Quite frankly, teachers are the only profession that teach our children."
- Governor George W. Bush

"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it."
- Governor George W. Bush

"It's time for the human race to enter the solar system."
- Governor George W. Bush

Hamma

2003-02-27, 06:58 PM

hehe, this thread sucks

I need to take a webcam snapshot of my r33t tshirt

MrVicchio

2003-02-27, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by =NCG=JMan
MrVicchio definitely has issues....WTH.....calling me a troll. Also a staff member behaving in this condescending manner worries me. On top of that, your the one who doesn't know how to relate to others with your nonsensical comments/post....I am the troll....hmmmm. I don't think so.

Here's an idea. If you wanted to kill the thread just tell others that you would like to kill this thread. Or delete it all together. That would have been the professional approach...not speaking to others in a condescending manner. Oh well. Hind sight....

Clarifing, it wasn't you that I was troll calling :P It was Lex.

MrVicchio

2003-02-27, 07:08 PM

LISTEN UP FORUM PEEPS,

MR VICCHIO Is currently in rather bad amount of pain, he had dental work done, thats not the bad part, the bad part is the FUCKTARD Dentist shot the novacine in me wrong, and I have had a splitting headache for the last 12 hours.

He "THINKS" he hit the main nerve he was trying to block.. WHATVER he did, my nasal passage feels like I shot Dr.Pepper out my nose and my left temple feels liek its being HAMMA'd.

So if I seem a tad testy today.. TOO BAD

Also, I don't mind dissenting opinions, I do mind dissenting feelings on issues. There is a difference.

Arshune

2003-02-27, 07:12 PM

Dental surgery, yikes. Thank God my wisdom teeth fit.

NCG JMan

2003-02-27, 07:23 PM

Originally posted by Civilian
It's painfully obvious that he wasn't talking to you.

Well okay...then my bad. I saw his post right after mine and thought it was addressed towards me...sheeesh.

NCG JMan

2003-02-27, 07:35 PM

Originally posted by MrVicchio
Clarifing, it wasn't you that I was troll calling :P It was Lex.

Oops didn't see your post MrVicchio, I already posted in regards to someone else's comment, but I will do it again. Sorry for the miscommunication/misunderstanding.

MrVicchio

2003-02-27, 07:47 PM

Its cool, as long as you dont do what Navarone did its all good :P

Navaron

2003-02-27, 07:50 PM

:chomp: :rawr: :chomp: :rawr: :chomp: :rawr: :chomp: :rawr:

Tobias

2003-02-27, 08:02 PM

I :love: you! And I :love: you! I :love: everyone! Spread the :love: !
:love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love:

Actually I hate you all. Go away.

Just kidding.

:love:

SilentCacophony

2003-02-27, 08:40 PM

Sorry vicchio, but your pian made me laugh, lol. Forget novacaine, laughing gas is the way to go, weeeeee.

Tobias

2003-02-27, 08:43 PM

When I got mine out I took 3 Valium before the surgery (well something like Valium, I dont think it was Valium itself) and then had novicane and gas, I fell asleep during the operation. It hurt some later but I never did take any of my perc.

Navaron

2003-02-27, 09:31 PM

I had all of mine out and only took 4 aspirin when it happened. I'm a hardass. (Actually I just don't like medicine)

Lexington_Steele

2003-02-27, 10:37 PM

Originally posted by SilentCacophony
Sorry vicchio, but your pian made me laugh, lol. Forget novacaine, laughing gas is the way to go, weeeeee.
??? :confused:

Why did his pain make you laugh? Am I missing something? Some inside joke maybe? :confused:

Squeeky

2003-02-27, 10:50 PM

This thread has turned to :spam:

�io

2003-02-27, 11:17 PM

Originally posted by Squeeky
This thread has turned to :spam:

Doesn't it always ?

:tear:

Hamma

2003-02-28, 12:36 PM

AeoNELiTe

2003-03-01, 02:53 AM

1) The reason for weapons inspections are not to prove that Saddam Hussain has chemical and biological weapons, its to prove that he has disarmed them as he claims, to which the United States has large amounts of evidence to indicate the contrary.

2) NPR is a bashton of Democratic reteric and almost all of the information given through NPR is drawn in a light to make it seem as if G.W.B is working against the United States. THAT is the propaganda you speak of.

3) The Economy began declining as GB was taking office, and has suffered massively because of fears about rising oil prices which effect dozens of other industries. These fears are mainly due to the required military action that was and still is being taken, in response to the attacks on September 11th and internation terrorist threats.

4) Bush is a Cristian, and is only trying to protect the lives on innocent Americans, even (unfortunatly) people like yourself. His policy is "attack before they attack us" not "attack preemptively in response to something that didn't happen".

Waiting for something to happen and responding has, can, and will cost thousands if not millions of American lives. The policy of the White House to eliminate potential terrorist threats and safehavens, as well as money and aide sources, to try to stop terrorists BEFORE they attack innocent Americans.

5) North Korea is being dealt with Diplomatically for the time being, and the prospect of war with North Korea is essentially World War 3, because China and NK are close allies and both contries are nuclear powers. China has the largest, 2nd most powerful army in the world, with over 1,000,000 soldiers in the Army alone. Also, North Korea has not repeatedly lied and manipulated the international community, which is why the United States and its allies are optimistic that a diplomatic solution can be found. The US has stopped all aide shipments to NK upon it announcing the reactivation of their Nuclear weapons program.

6) Of the several hundred thousand soldiers in the Gulf War, around 300 were killed. Saddams forces are less than half as powerful as they were in 1991. The estimated survival rating for a possible war with Iraq is close to 99.4%.....

and to the rest of you, if you don't like political debate then make your own damn thread, I'm having fun....

Derfud

2003-03-01, 03:13 AM

Just a thought, maybe if the US would get rid of most of thier WOMD then these rogue states would be more likely to comply, becuase nobody doesn't like a good role model, well... unless it's George Dubya Bush.

Squeeky

2003-03-01, 03:17 AM

Let this thread die a peaceful death please!

Derfud

2003-03-01, 04:03 AM

Amen brotha! (you could "help" by closing it...)

Fire_Monkey

2003-03-01, 08:53 AM

sorry vic

DIE THREAD DIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!
:sniper: :evil: :blowup: :blowup:

MrVicchio

2003-03-01, 09:36 AM

I aint sorry, it was supposed to die after my first response, an OFN remark over an OFN remark should have killed it...

Derv

2003-03-01, 09:40 AM

First of all, I don't care how much or how little Bush is involving his religious beliefs in this, the point is that it is a fact that he is using them in politics. I don't believe in any religious beliefs so it therefore makes me feel very uncomfortable when the two are combined. And wasn't it set down by our forefathers not to mix religion and politics?

And yes, I agree with you about our economy, however Bush has not done ANYTHING to help it. I think that his first priority should be America, and second America's enemies. Especially since we basically have Iraq by the balls they don't seem like a huge threat to me. We have inspectors and such in there all the time. And btw, the "required military action" of which you speak of in response to 9/11 is not required... Although it was a horrible event, we have not been very successful in our military actions and I believe that they over did it just to make Americans feel better about what happened. Violent retaliation isn't always the best way to approach matters, however it is almost impossible to do anything against such an odd form of attack. Isreal has been struggling with terrorism for a lot longer than we have and look at them. I don't want to become what they have, a nation constantly being threatened by terrorism and always in fear.

And you must be mistaken about his policy. I read it in an article and it WAS called the Bush Doctrine. This was a republican article also, because it was supporting his actions. He did call it Preemptive Counterattack.

I hope you don't believe that terrorism can be stopped... Even if we kill off part of a terrorist network (because it is impossible to find every member of a terrorist network) there will always be others because the fact of the matter is, we have COMPLETELY different beliefs and ideals, so there will always be hate between the United states and Muslim nations. Terrorism is practically in their religion, because when they "die for their cause" it is said in their religion that they will go to a comparative "heaven" and be received by many virgins who will make their after life "enjoyable" I guess you could say. So there will always be suicide bombers and such as long as the muslim faith exists, and I don't see it disappearing and time soon...

As for North Korea, I don't care how many people China has, a few nuclear bombs can kill millions of people... I don't think you understand the power of nuclear weapons. This also relates to when you were talking about how many deaths we would have if we attacked Iraq. If Iraq or North Korea has nuclear bombs or biological weapons, these weapons used could kill a VERY large number of people. It doesn't matter how many tanks or men we have on the battlefield when these weapons are used. So if you don't feel that our soldiers are in any threat of being bombed by such a horrific weapon, then why do you feel there is a threat of New York City being bombed by such a weapon? If Saddam were smart, which he is seeing as he has written many novels, (they are mostly romance novels which I find pretty interesting...) then he will use these weapons on our army or even our country while we are attacking them. It also seems that Saddam doesn't mind killing his own people so the chance of him nuking his own land would be greater.

I hope we can argue more about this =)

MrVicchio

2003-03-01, 10:34 AM

Derv,

No IT WAS NOT SET DOWN NOT TO MIX RELIGIONA ND POLITCS HAVENT YOU READ THE CONSTITUTION AND THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDANCE?

"We deem that all men are created equal by thier Creator"

They weren't reffering to their mothers.

The founding fathers felt that RELIGION WAS VERY VERY IMPORTANT.

What they did not want was for the USA to say"Okay, only XX Religion is allowed"

That is the ONLY RESTRICTION.

Religion guided everything the founding fathers did. Go do some research, read the constitution, the bill of rights, and the federalist papers.

Mtx

2003-03-01, 12:17 PM

Kill eachother!

KILL KILL KILL!!

:father:

Derv

2003-03-01, 12:19 PM

Then why is there separation of church and state?

Hamma

2003-03-01, 01:04 PM

Religion only fucks up polticians and politics. :|

MrVicchio

2003-03-01, 01:28 PM

Speration of Church and state is to keep a RELIGION from being established, not to bar all religion.

Look at the money in your pocket, the great seal of the USA..

The declaration of Independance...

Freedom of Religion means you are free to practice, or not practice ANY religion...

OneManArmy

2003-03-01, 01:33 PM

I Like people who know what they're talking about :stupid: :thumbsup:

Mtx

2003-03-01, 01:55 PM

Originally posted by Hamma
Religion only fucks up polticians and politics. :|

If you took away religion politics would still be fragged.

Led

2003-03-01, 03:54 PM

http://users.ev1.net/~bajah/insanecleric/bushspeech.swf

:D

Derv

2003-03-02, 09:10 AM

Ok, then I guess I don't agree with the founding fathers ;).

Sando138

2003-03-02, 12:06 PM

my favorite quote by any politician EVER:
"I invented the internet." - Al Gore, 2000 campaign

Bighoss

2003-03-02, 12:17 PM

I don't get why people don't understand that religion is simply a guide to help you be a good person through life. I'm not religous myself but if I was I think I would want to be a Hinduist there so COOL:cool2:

Confectrix

2003-03-02, 12:48 PM

Well, I can only say I've been away for awhile. In that term I see that the same old arguments are being used in different formats.

Firstly, Vic, I want to thank you for refuting Derv's erroneous statements concerning the Consititution. Religion is very important. Without it, the world would be a terrible place. Think about that for a few minutes. No higher standard.

Seperation of church and state was meant to keep the state out of the church. Every politician is urged to use their total being (including religious beliefs) in governing. To ask them to do less would be terrible.

My main focus is on Derv.

Derv you state that President Bush has done nothing to help the economy. You are dead wrong. The president has brought about a multi-BILLION dollar tax cut plan which would help everyone...including you. He has refocused and in actuality "face-lifted" the SEC. His new treasury staff is top notch; and Greenspan is working closer than ever with the executive branch to ensure economic success. He is constantly trying to stimulate growth.

The United States of America as a member of the United Nations is bound to uphold and enforce all resolutions the group has collectivly passed. Security resolution 1441 as well as Gulf Treaty [which Huessain signed] directly state that Iraq is to comply with WMD protocals. Those protocals state that WMD are [were] to be eliminated from Iraq. After 1991, Iraq's weapons were cataloged by UN inspectors. To date, Saddam has NOT shown evidence for the destruction of those weapons. He has them. He's hiding them. If not, just show us the documents proving their destruction; or do so now. Iraq is then in material breach of both UN resoultions and Gulf Treaty [which stated he is not to prusue a WMD development program].

We are not doing a pre-emptive strike. We are upholding the resolutions of the UN security council. If we do not uphold such directives, the UN faces obsolesence.

Iraq must comply; or be crushed.

Moving on to Terrorism. No, it can't be stopped. It can be greatly hindered. This is what all governments of the world wish to do. Drive the terrorists from their safehavens and for them to act would promote greater risk to themselves as well as running the risk of their operation being thwarted. Nothing in life is certain. Terrorists included.

North Korea is next on the list of American diplomats. They too must comply with Nuclear treaty of face alienantion from the world. China will support the US or face the possiblility of a nuclear equipped Japan and/or Tawian. This they do not desire. As such, they will follow our lead. Actually, China [and Russia] has declared that any action taken by NK deemed to be hostile to the US without provocation will immedialty be dealt with via military action. China can't afford to lose us...yet.

BTW, our troops are well-versed and well prepared to deal with NBC weapons. The US troops have protective gear which will not only allow them to survive NBC attacks but to fight effectivly in such enviroments.

This war is up to Saddam. Comply or be forced to comply. We all hope for the former.

Mtx

2003-03-02, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by Confectrix

BTW, our troops are well-versed and well prepared to deal with NBC weapons. The US troops have protective gear which will not only allow them to survive NBC attacks but to fight effectivly in such enviroments.

wrong

Confectrix

2003-03-02, 02:38 PM

MTX:

You must be joking right. I assume that since you provide no facts to your deafening "wrong" remark.

The US military has already vaccinated all sevicemen and women from Anthrax, smallpox and a host of other biological diseases. Those to hostile to be prevented by vaccination can be done so by protective suits, which has been provided.

These suits which also protect against chemical attacks are bulky nonetheless, however, they are more refined than in the past and since all military personnel are required to have many hours of training in those suits; it's good to say that the US is very well prepared for those types of attacks...if they come.

Gen. Myers has stressed time and time again that the threat of Saddam unleashing NBC weapons is substanstial [even still lower than you might consider a risk; remember his troops have to fight in this enviroment also], the actual general of his carrying out. that order is minimal.

While not as lethal in those suits, they do get the job done; effectivly.

I guess Mensa is taking just anybody these days.

Hamma

2003-03-02, 02:46 PM

You obviously didnt watch 60 minutes 2 weeks ago :eek:

Squeeky

2003-03-02, 02:47 PM

Originally posted by Hamma
You obviously didnt watch 60 minutes 2 weeks ago :eek:

I used to watch 20/20 all the time, i loved that show :brow:

Mtx

2003-03-02, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by Confectrix
MTX:

You must be joking right. I assume that since you provide no facts to your deafening "wrong" remark.

The US military has already vaccinated all sevicemen and women from Anthrax, smallpox and a host of other biological diseases. Those to hostile to be prevented by vaccination can be done so by protective suits, which has been provided.

All servicemen? Let me guess.. you think they get one shot and POOF you're vaccinated.. wrong

Anthrax is a series of shots taken over.. I believe it was 8 months. Not something that happens over night. FYI the protective suit you keep referring to is called MOPP4.

Originally posted by Confectrix

These suits which also protect against chemical attacks are bulky nonetheless, however, they are more refined than in the past and since all military personnel are required to have many hours of training in those suits; it's good to say that the US is very well prepared for those types of attacks...if they come.

Negative...

Takes about 13 minutes to put that baby on. Nerve gas would kill you within two minutes. Ofcourse you're not considering the fact that you're fighting in the desert either. It's about 103 degrees in that suit and adding the outside desert heat you have a great combination for... heatstroke.

Oh did I fail to mention you would have to take off your full battle rattle to put MOPP4 on? Not something you can instantly do.

Oh yeah.. I was in the Army.

Confectrix

2003-03-02, 05:41 PM

We've been vacinnating soldiers long before eight months which is the required time. I never gave any inclination that I thought one shot and "POOF" all done. Even tetnaus requires more than one shot.

Secondly, I'd hope that we'd have enough intelligence to allow us time to utilize those suits; MOPP4 as you say. If not, it'd be waste of money and manpower. I doubt military tacticians would agree with your assesment.

Desert heat would be a problem agreed.

We are debating this on a BIG if. Saddam is sharing this battlefield. I doubt he'd use weapons of this kind (as do many other people).

Lastly, I wish to thank you for serving our country and ensuring my freedoms are upheld. Don't take this the wrong way sir, but how long ago were you in the military?

Mtx

2003-03-02, 05:56 PM

5 years? Before I met my wife.. that bitch.

Hey she's in the Army. She rammed her two month old Elantra into a tank a few days ago but that's a different story. (See soldiers are stupid. At least lower enlisted are.)

If we go to war with Saddam remember one thing. We are coming for him and he knows it. He'll have nothing to lose by using BC weapons against us... after all we are invading his country.

We're obviously going there for the oil. If we wanted him dead.. he would be dead.

Lexington_Steele

2003-03-02, 10:34 PM

Originally posted by Confectrix
We've been vacinnating soldiers long before eight months which is the required time. I never gave any inclination that I thought one shot and "POOF" all done. Even tetnaus requires more than one shot.

Nope, all the soldiers that I know did not start getting anthrax vaccination until january of this year.

Navaron

2003-03-02, 10:42 PM

You know, I was scrolling down the general forums, and I saw that Lex was the last poster in the lounge - - - so I thought, cool, lex posted in that W thread, wonder what he has to say.

I was right. Funny ha ha.

Arshune

2003-03-02, 10:47 PM

Oh, you know you love politics too, Nav...

Lexington_Steele

2003-03-02, 10:49 PM

I had to hold my tongue on a couple of issues ( I am on vacation anyways). :) I wasn't too big on the attacks on NPR. I also wasn't too sure about the overall benefits of Bush's tax cuts. But I will save those arguments for another day. ;)

Navaron

2003-03-02, 10:50 PM

No doubt about it.

AeoNELiTe

2003-03-03, 02:44 PM

In your 1st few paragraph you tried to convince us that the threat of Saddam Hussain, a major enemy of the United States with ties to Al Quieda and other terroist organizations, is little threat despite the fact that he is producing nuclear weapons.

Then, several paragraphs later you blow off the power of the Chinese Army by saying that several nuclear weapons would be able to kill millions of people....

1) The Chinese have nukes too, and long range missles, it would be total nuclear war.

2) Terrorists could kill millions of people with 1 tactical nuclear weapon the size of a suitcase, if properly planeted.

3) The policy of the Bush administration is not to launch preemptive counterattacks, thats an oxymoron, if that is how it was stated in whatever you read then it was misprinted. The policy is to stop terrorist activities and deter acts of violence against Americans. Obviously we can't kill every terrorist, but a terrorist with no weapons, little comunication or secrecy, and 100$ left in his pocket, is going to have a hard time sneaking weapons into the United States while under constant watch by the feds.

4) Inspections have very limited ability to find weapons, they are buried hundreds of feet underground in the middle of the desert, and intellegance experts have speculated that they may be stored in neighboring countries such as Syria,

Confectrix

2003-03-03, 08:18 PM

Lex:

The vaccine takes months to prepare safely. We've been inoculating soldiers long before Janurary. Biological weapons were always a big threat during the Cold War. If one could vaccinate against one deadly pathogen; all the better. It just became more public. Besides, pre September 11 and terrorist threats daily, when did you care about anthrax? My point.

MTX:

We are not going for oil. Upon General Franks installation as Viceroy oil refineries will be rebuilt by the companies which win favor with the Iraqi people. The US has never engaged in pillaging. We will not start now. Especially with the world watching.

We do however want Saddam out. If he stays in power and aquires WMD, he will grab the oil reserves of those around him and strangle the world economy.

No one wants that.

Yours,

Mtx

2003-03-03, 08:50 PM

If we wanted Saddam dead he would be dead.

You just watch the price of oil fall while this happens. Don't worry.. I'll probably be there.

Arshune

2003-03-03, 08:51 PM

If anything, the price will go up in the short term because Iraq won't be supplying oil and investors will become frightened.

Confectrix

2003-03-03, 08:54 PM

Investing it like a game Arshune. Remember when you sell to drive the price lower you need an idiot to buy from you. Who would be willing to do that?

The smart investor would be ready to exploit those whom let their emotions drive them.

Lots of money is to be made these coming months.

Good luck.

Lexington_Steele

2003-03-03, 08:54 PM

Originally posted by Confectrix
Lex:

The vaccine takes months to prepare safely. We've been inoculating soldiers long before Janurary. Biological weapons were always a big threat during the Cold War. If one could vaccinate against one deadly pathogen; all the better. It just became more public. Besides, pre September 11 and terrorist threats daily, when did you care about anthrax? My point.

MTX:

We are not going for oil. Upon General Franks installation as Viceroy oil refineries will be rebuilt by the companies which win favor with the Iraqi people. The US has never engaged in pillaging. We will not start now. Especially with the world watching.

We do however want Saddam out. If he stays in power and aquires WMD, he will grab the oil reserves of those around him and strangle the world economy.

I am not sure what your point was of the first paragraph (even though you said, "My point.") I don't know a single soldier that was innoculated before January. I am sure there are some that have been innoculated before january, however I would guess that most weren't because almost every soldier I know started getting them in january. I would also bet that it is the majority of our soldiers have not recived the entirety of the treatment.

Since when do I care about anthrax? since I first heard of it years and years ago. Will I get vaccinated? No. From what I hear, getting the vaccination is excruciatingly uncomfortable. No one wants to be vaccinated for Anthrax.

We are not going to war only for oil, but you must admit that it does play a big factor. Our government has admitted that we will likely be paying for our war with Iraqi oil.
You don't think the US is going to recieve any kind of special treatment in the restructuring of the post Saddam Iraqi Economy?
You don't think US companies will recieve more Iraqi construction contracts than they have now?
You don't think that the US will get better post sanction oil access than it would recieve if Saddam stays in power?

I am all for a war with Iraq. I do believe that Saddam needs to be taken out of power. I do beleive that Saddam is bad for his people. I do believe that the US will also recieve significant economic benefits from a war with Iraq.

Confectrix

2003-03-03, 08:58 PM

No.

No.

No.

Our current governmental policy answers all those questions.

On to the vaccine...it had to be manufactured delicatly before issurance. You think they just made it without testing? Lots of time and money was involved. Janurary was not the first month. And unless you know all 250000 servicemen and women, you don't have a proper consensus.

Yours,

Lexington_Steele

2003-03-03, 09:04 PM

Originally posted by Confectrix
No.

No.

No.

Yours,
Do you really believe that the US will not recieve more access to post sanction era oil than it would with Saddam in power?

You don't think we are going to get accesss to more than no oil in a post saction era? Right now the US has no promises of oil while many other countries do. You don't think that will change?

Confectrix

2003-03-03, 09:07 PM

This has just dawned on me. Does everyone disagree with what I say?

On to refuting your point.

It is illogical to presuppose we will get something out of an action we did not even commit yet. Such thinking shows the worst of human nature.

The US does what it does for the sake of world stability, WMD control and UN stability. Oil is NOT a concern.

To say it is requires the mind of one whom would want something out of a deal.

Lexington_Steele

2003-03-03, 09:09 PM

Originally posted by Confectrix
.

On to the vaccine...it had to be manufactured delicatly before issurance. You think they just made it without testing? Lots of time and money was involved. Janurary was not the first month. And unless you know all 250000 servicemen and women, you don't have a proper consensus.

Yours,
You made a blanket statement that said US soldiers are well prepared for Biological weapon attacks.

As far as all of the soldiers I know, they are not well prepared for biological weapon attacks. Your bringing up the large amount of time, testing, and money involved does not lend credit to US soldier being prepared for biological weapons. Neither does my experience with the soldiers I know.

Confectrix

2003-03-03, 09:13 PM

Lex:

So this means both us cannot know for sure. I'll take that.

Lexington_Steele

2003-03-03, 09:18 PM

Originally posted by Confectrix
It is illogical to presuppose we will get something out of an action we did not even commit yet. Such thinking shows the worst of human nature.

To say it is requires the mind of one whom would want something out of a deal.
And bussiness does not have a special relationship with government right?

How is it illogical to suggest a very linear line of thinking?

What is my line of thinking showing? It is showing that profit is a great motivator. Self interest drives people, plain and simple. This is a fundamental principal of capitalism. You call it showing the worst of human nature, I say it is an understanding of human nature.

I also don't think that self interest is the worst of human nature. Self interest breeds productivity and progress.

When I make a deal, I do consider my interest. Are you telling me that your interests have no place in the deals you make?

Lexington_Steele

2003-03-03, 09:20 PM

Originally posted by Confectrix
Lex:

So this means both us cannot know for sure. I'll take that.
That sounds about right. :)

Confectrix

2003-03-03, 09:28 PM

Profit is a motivator for the unwise. Capitalism is driven by profits and losses. Profit is the result of some good deal; morally and ethically done. The profit of which you speak is no more than greed. The two have a fine line in definition. This is why profit is the motivator for the unwise. One can never be too sure when self-interests as you say, or as I say selfishness comes into play.

Self-interest is the understanding of human nature as it is. Human nature does not stop there; it exceeds those bounds of mere profit, self-interest and mere animalisitc traits. Do not stop your analysis there, move further.

Motivation of the right kind breeds productivity and thereby progress. Profit is not the right kind of motivator. The common good is. Call me idealistic, if your so stuck in the mire.

In any deals I make, my interests are involved. Not greed. As you so propose the US is doing with Iraq.

Remember:

Your profit is my greed.
Your self-interest is my selfishness.

Lexington_Steele

2003-03-03, 09:49 PM

How do you distinguish between greed and self interest?

Mtx

2003-03-03, 10:40 PM

Originally posted by Confectrix

The US does what it does for the sake of world stability, WMD control and UN stability. Oil is NOT a concern.

OMG...

Hold on.. that was just hard to swallow.

Where do you get this BS idea that America actually gives a rats ass about the rest of the world?

We don't willingly do anything for free. How many people died in Bosnia before we acted? Why didn't we act faster? Maybe because Bosnia has nothing to offer us.

How many Iraqis have starved to death because of sanctions we put on them? Oh that's Saddams fault... everything is his fault.

I've served this nations military and as an "insider" let me just explain something very important to you. We (the US) don't give a fuck about anyone but ourselves. If there is no advantage to helping someone... we wont help them.

Join the military. You need a serious reality check.

Bighoss

2003-03-03, 11:21 PM

both sides are arguable and both opinions are equaly right. When it comes to opinions I feel that no one can be wrong unless your saying something completely stupid based on nothing.

secondly your insulting a philosphy major who knows how to make us all look like retards:D

Lexington_Steele

2003-03-04, 02:08 AM

Who was insulting who? :confused:

I am not sure who you are saying is pursuing a degree in philosophy either? :confused: (although I can guess)

Confectrix

2003-03-04, 09:00 PM

MTX:

If Bosnia had nothing to offer, why did we get involved at all?

Saddam does what he does with his own rule by his regime. His people are suffering because of him. Yes, it is his fault. Unless you think the US coaxes him to starve his people and use chemical weapons on them. Sanctions directly affect his interests; not the people of Iraq. I will concede to you that it inadvertantly hurts the Iraqi peoples but not intentionally.

I do not need to join the military to "learn" about the "reality" of the US not caring.

Lex:

Greed is the taking or manipulation for the end to take what is beyond one's compensation by justice.

Self-interest is the seeing and insuring one takes what is theirs by justice.

Justifiability is key.

I insult no one. Big was speaking of me. He must remember my posts weeks ago on another topic.

Yours,

Duritz

2003-03-04, 10:33 PM

Originally posted by Confectrix
The US does what it does for the sake of world stability, WMD control and UN stability. Oil is NOT a concern.
Then explain this to me: Why did we help capture the president of Venezuela, get his officers to try to force him to resign, and support that whole coup? They aren't producing weapons of mass destruction or destabilizing world politics; they have oil that we want cheaper. Well, he decides to raise prices to spite us. THEN we try to divert the reason for rising oil prices to the Middle East, where we *happen* to be opposing Iraq. What a coincidence.:rolleyes:

partial source (http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,685189,00.html) I also got more info from my g/f's dad who's in Air Force

We WILL make money off of an Iraqi puppet state like the oh so many we have created and let crumble. No matter how you look at it. We are out for ourselves, no one else.

It sounds like to me that our country is VERY interested in its of possible profit, and will do everything diplomatically reasonable, which includes war, only with political support, to get it. I don't think that it is a horrible thing, every internationally active country in the world does it, but it cannot be ignored.

Confectrix

2003-03-05, 01:49 PM

Duritz you're wrong and I can't wait until this is over to give you tangible evidence.

Mark my words, the US will have no gain economically other than a more democratic government to work with.

How can you say the men and women whom we elect are so low that they would "create a puppet state," "plunder" "pillage" and essentially gut the country?

How wrong you are. The government is not some machine. It's real people; like you and me; wanting the best for everyone in this situation.

Squeeky

2003-03-05, 02:15 PM

Do this thread a favor, and let it die!

Confectrix

2003-03-05, 02:21 PM

Squeeky, can I not defend myself?

Lexington_Steele

2003-03-05, 02:35 PM

Originally posted by Confectrix
Greed is the taking or manipulation for the end to take what is beyond one's compensation by justice.

Self-interest is the seeing and insuring one takes what is theirs by justice.

Justifiability is key.
Justifiable to whom? Who gets to decide what is justifiable and what is not.

Apparently it is justification to ourselves, because the international community does not seeem to be completely behind a war with Iraq.

So you are saying that the oil is not a motivation for war because we can not justify taking it.

How about creating ties between Saddam/Iraq and 9/11, saying that the US suffered a huge economic decline because of the attacks and making sure that the US gets the largest share of the oil deals to compensate for the economic decline.

Would this example provide justification for taking the oil? I think alot of Americans and American politicians would buy that.

America is part of the world, and taking the largest share of oil deals would restore economic stability. Think of it as a restoration of world stability, which you suggested was the war's purpose.

Along this line of thinking tied to your "jutification," interest in oil has become intertwined with restoring world stability; intertwined with the puprpose of the war. Therefore it is not incorrect to suggest that oil is a motivation for war with Iraq, unless you can suggest a different source of arbitration for what is justifiable US action.