First Person, Third Person, your opinion?

[Sifer2]

Hello all, since no one else has mentioned this that much I figure I would bring it up. In the original Planetside it was primarily an FPS. But allowed you to go into third person if you wanted. Which while it was ok for vehicles it did create some exploit tactics indoors allowing you to see around corners. Which makes me wonder how it will work in Next.

Personally I would like it to be exclusively First Person view. From the time you log in to your character you see it from their view. Even when entering vehicles you would see a FP animation of opening the door an climbing in an then drive, pilot the vehicle from that view. Such as looking out over the dashboard of a jeep or viewing through a monitor like driving tanks in Battlefield. I think it would make the game more immersive an put everyone on the same playing field.

I even think that if your not wearing armor you should have no HUD. When you put armor on then your holographic display helmet would kick in an show your statistics. And to reach inventory, map an game menu's you would use a hand held PDA device. An of course if you look down you should see your feet. I can't believe that's not a standard feature in FPS yet lol.

Of course that's just my opinion. I imagine there are some out there that would scream at having to drive vehicles in first person view since they are so used to the easier third person method. An some probably even would not mind having the whole thing third person now that games like Uncharted an Gears make it popular. But I would prefer the more fair an consistent FP view across the board. What do you guys think?

[Kumoblade]

I love first person. however, I do like the idea of an Over-the shoulder view like in Gears. The reasoning behind this is that while in 1st person, Depth Perception is horrible. While having an Over the shoulder option, you can see how you relate to your surroundings and have a better depth perception.

If its close enough to the shoulder then you don't have to worry too much about Corner exploiting. however, there should be sticky cover and the ability to lean around a corner to see.

I think vehicle options should be both first person and 3rd person. The reasoning for this is transports without windows. You'll be stuck staring at the interior of a vehicle (which would have to be modelled, and vehicle interiors are a way Modellers cut corners.

[DviddLeff]

Got to be first person all the way.

Third person exploiters who sit at corners with HA using third person combined with lag to get essentially free kills is one of the main reasons I left the game.

As for vehicles its a tougher one, but I would honestly prefer to have a first person view.

Immersion is the way forward, and having everything appear to be either on your HUD in your helmet, or on hand held devices would be perfect. For example why not put hacking, healing and repairing bars on the support tool rather than have them pop up in the world?

PS2 is an opportunity to do things right from the start, and removing third person is one "sacrifice" that must be made.

[Kumoblade]

Both have their pros and cons.

The con to 3rd person is that when people come up behind you they can block your line of sight.

The con with 1st person is that its tough to gauge distance, perception, etc.. as well as your tail end when you're in vehicles.

It would take a rediculous amount of work to add mirrors and such to vehicles that you can use to see where your ass end's at when it comes to driving, etc..

Also, if you're forced to first person while in vehicles, when you're down in the bay controlling a gun thats up top, it'll be even more work to set up a remote visual to know where the guns firing.

While I'd love if they could make 1st person just that much more Immersive, i don't know if SOE is willing to put forth the effort.

[Tikuto]

Only First-Person View when as Infantry, MAX or whatever.
Alternate between Third-Person and First-Person when driving. Cannot rotate camera around (like Liberator belly-camera view). - This allows the spatial awareness of your character. When driving in-game, by looking left and right can greatly mess-up gameplay whereas by just having a Third-Person View saves all that trouble.

[ANaKeR]

Infantry



First-person view ONLY


Vehicles



First-person view with the ability to look 90 degrees to either side (180 degree of view from the seat) and the a mapped key to look directly behind the vehicle.



Third-person view that's 'dragged' behind the vehicle (not locked directly behind the vehicle like in PS1)


Radar shows a topographical view (with contour lines) of the surrounding terrain with objects showing up (trees, rocks, bridges, base structures, vehicles, etc.).

Additionally, a ~30 second instant replay from a directors point of view with the ability to display in slow motion :cool:

[Tikuto]

Infantry



First-person view ONLY


Vehicles



First-person view with the ability to look 90 degrees to either side (180 degree of view from the seat) and the a mapped key to look directly behind the vehicle.



Third-person view that's 'dragged' behind the vehicle (not locked directly behind the vehicle like in PS1)


Radar shows a topographical view (with contour lines) of the surrounding terrain with objects showing up (trees, rocks, bridges, base structures, vehicles, etc.).

Additionally, a ~30 second instant replay from a directors point of view with the ability to display in slow motion :cool:Anaker wins this thread.

[Sifer2]

Well in regards to vehicles not being able to see their ass end. In the future I would think most vehicles could come equipped with those rear view cameras. With maybe ATV's an Jeep's being the exception since your character just looking backwards would be enough. Thing is I like the idea of first person driving just because it takes more skill from the player an makes sneaking up on someone in a vehicle more viable.

Also I don't really have problems with depth perception in first person. I am not really sure what people mean by that. I mean if the object is taking up your entire monitor screen then its right in front of you lol. First person for infantry is great since it means you can't watch your own back someone else has to. Encouraging teamwork an of course it means you can't see around corners without being exposed.

[DviddLeff]

Thats the thing; I want to be able to attach boomers to an enemy vehicle and blow it up; no chance of that if they are in 3rd person mode.

[Kumoblade]

Thats the thing; I want to be able to attach boomers to an enemy vehicle and blow it up; no chance of that if they are in 3rd person mode.

Touche.

I almost forgot that's one of the BIG features I wanted.

I wanted Anti-Vehicle to be more hands on and less spammy. Same with regular vehicle fire.

Boomers/Remote charges planted on vehicles was one of the big ones I wanted for urban combat.

[DviddLeff]

How did the battlefield games do it?

I definitely remember sticking C4 on people vehicles and laughing manically as I ran to get out of the blast area with the detonator in my hand, but I also remember 3rd person in vehicles... did they just have no cross hairs in third person? Or it may have also been that 3rd person was reasonably close to the vehicle, and that they couldn't turn the view point?

[Furret]

Infantry

First person all the way. No questions asked.
About not having an HUD, If they were to have armor affect your HUD, they should have helmets as a separate entity. Personally, I'm more of a hardcore gamer, and I'd like to see only certain guns have crosshairs, and if you're using a shotgun or sniper rifle, you probably shouldn't have crosshairs.

Land Vehicles

The driver should have first person view only, with radar for topographical features, and a rear view camera. Gunners would have first person only, while passengers have free rotational cameras. These cameras would function visually as guns do, but obviously would not be able to fire. These cameras should also be destructable, and if an enemy shoots a camera, the camera is broken until the vehicle is repaired.

Air Vehicles

Air vehicles ought to have third person, although it's unrealistic, for people that would want to fly in formation, it would be a necessity. I haven't played in forever, and I don't recall if Air Vehicles had first person. I don't think they did, but they should.

[Implacable]

Infantry should stay in first person: it really breaks immersion to have it any other way. I likewise prefer first person in ground vehicles, at least in the gunner's spot, but I understand if pilots require third. And as to air vehicles, third person seems necessary, although some sort of guidance-via-arrow-keys/move-your-head-around-with-mouse hybrid might work.

Infantry
Air Vehicles

Air vehicles ought to have third person, although it's unrealistic, for people that would want to fly in formation, it would be a necessity. I haven't played in forever, and I don't recall if Air Vehicles had first person. I don't think they did, but they should.

They did, I think: I believe I remember haplessly trying to dogfight in Mosquitos while in 1st.

[Furret]

yeah, although first person might be interesting for Reavers and their missiles

[Sifer2]

I don't think you really NEED third person for air vehicles. In battlefield I flew the helicopter in first person just cause it was default view and I got used to it first. For formation purposes I assume air vehicles would have a radar an you could just line up with other squadron members on it. So long as the radar was a good one an made it clear what altitude a target was at.

Really though I think first person only air vehicles could potentially make dogfighting much more fun since third person makes it so much easier to constantly keep your opponent in sight an maneuver against him. In first person only that would open the door for doing sneaky moves that cause your opponent to totally lose track of you at least for a moment.

[DviddLeff]

That's true Sifer, and it gives rise to using things like TrackIR; which is the awesome sauce :p

[Kyonye]

First Person is all anyone needs in an FPS.

Use your damn radar to make sure people don't sneak up on you. If they do, it's your own fault.

[ANaKeR]

May as well have multiple views for everything except for infantry. It doesn't provide any particular advantage and most players prefer different views for different vehicles.

A nice view would be Birds-eye view. It could be used with infantry and wouldn't give anyone an advantage (unlike 3rd person view in PS1) because you only see your avatar and a few meters radius.

Advantages would come when you're looking for mines and ensuring no cloakers are hacking your vehicle. Also, its a view that can be used when you are dropping in a drop pod.

[EDIT: IGNORE THIS POST, I WAS HIGH WHEN I WROTE IT]

[DviddLeff]

Advantages would come when you're looking for mines and ensuring no cloakers are hacking your vehicle.

That affectively makes it impossible to hack a vehicle or potentially put explosives on it all but removing features from the game that have been worked on.

[Kyonye]

Anaker, you just said it doesn't provide any advantages and then listed some advantages.... The idea is to not allow people to act like they have eyes on the back of their heads. Even birds eye is 3rd person and allowing it gives the advantages.

Giving 3rd person viewing takes away from First Person Shooters. FPS should stay First Person.

[ANaKeR]

I'm currently under the influence of the festive green.. it made sense in my head :huh:

[Kumoblade]

I'm okay with Vehicle third person as long as its front and center with a majority of the vehicle behind the camera. Eg. The camera is right above the cockpit so you can at least look "down and front"

[Furret]

The problem is, there wouldn't be any good reason for third person unless it gave you a better idea of where your vehicle is relative to the trees and other vehicles etc. The 'camera' would have to be a few feet behind and a few feet above the back of the vehicle, so you could see the sides and front of the vehicle. Its pretty difficult to drive through a forest with only first person.

[Kumoblade]

The problem is, there wouldn't be any good reason for third person unless it gave you a better idea of where your vehicle is relative to the trees and other vehicles etc. The 'camera' would have to be a few feet behind and a few feet above the back of the vehicle, so you could see the sides and front of the vehicle. Its pretty difficult to drive through a forest with only first person.

That and it's cool to see the vehicle you're driving blasting things apart, and taking evasive maneuvers and such.

However, I can vouche for either playstyle.

In 3rd person view, where you can at least see part of the front and sides of a vehicle, it does give you an advantage when driving through thicker terrain, and knowing exactly where your vehicles at, your boundaries, etc.. etc..

However, thats kinda what I like about 1st person view. Where you can only determine the dimensions of the vehicle by Practice practice practice and getting a feel for the vehicle, and that'll separate the boys from the men in vehicle combat.

How much more rewarding would it be to be flying through thick terrain with 2 enemies on your ass only to out maneuver them because you're just a better pilot? Perhaps even have a toggle rear view camera so you can check their status (and also watch them get wasted by their lack of skills)

[Furret]

That's definitely true.
Actually, I like that reasoning.
I'm going to side with first person + radar + rear view cam.

[Nuevo Jones]

There should be limitations set on 3rd person view. Infantry outdoors sure, inside no. Reliance on the mini-map needs to be recognized by players. Vehicle 3rd person should be available to drivers, but gunners need to turn to see, make people work for it. thats what comms are for anyway right? 2 o' clock vanny!

[Bags]

I personally really like third person. Maybe not indoors though.

[Raymac]

I spent most of the time in 1st person, and only switched to 3rd to make sure I didn't just shit my pants after some insane battle.

I never had a problem with people that would do that 3rd person wall humping stuff indoors. At the same time, it did always kind of feel like an unintended exploit. If they found a way around that "exploit", then I'd applaud it, but 3rd person should be kept in the game.

[Bags]

I never had a problem with people that would do that 3rd person wall humping stuff indoors. At the same time, it did always kind of feel like an unintended exploit. If they found a way around that "exploit", then I'd applaud it, but 3rd person should be kept in the game.

They could fog out everything in 3rd person that you couldn't see in first person. I still like only allowing 3rd person outdoor if any change is needed.

[Raymac]

They could fog out everything in 3rd person that you couldn't see in first person. I still like only allowing 3rd person outdoor if any change is needed.

Thats a cool idea. I couldn't think of a way to do it, but that would work.

[Sifer2]

Wow it had been over a year before the thread was bumped lol.

Anyway I still would like to see it be first person only with a good radar an rear view cam for vehicle driver.

As to this fog idea I don't get it how would that look? Probably rather silly. Tight over the shoulder view like Dead Space or something would make more sense. Though I still think it should be axed entirely since I don't see the need for it. And it only ever increases your field of view giving you advantage an reducing opportunity for skill to shine.

[klu]

wall humping needs to go. but i wouldnt mind some kind of apparatus to look around corners (think splinter cell) as long as you cant camp with weapon in hand. i also think driving is a thankless task as it is and wouldnt want to see it made any more difficult.

[Bags]

Wow it had been over a year before the thread was bumped lol.

Anyway I still would like to see it be first person only with a good radar an rear view cam for vehicle driver.

As to this fog idea I don't get it how would that look? Probably rather silly. Tight over the shoulder view like Dead Space or something would make more sense. Though I still think it should be axed entirely since I don't see the need for it. And it only ever increases your field of view giving you advantage an reducing opportunity for skill to shine.

It wouldn't work as there'd be no point to using third person if you couldn't see anything you can't see in first person. I'm not sure why I thought it sounded like a good idea.

[Aractain]

Yeah... They need a 'vanity cam' but not a wallhumping cam. Less stalemates more combat plx.

[CutterJohn]

Vehicles need third person for 2 reasons..

1. Friendlies aren't going to stop running in front of your tank just because you can no longer see them.

2. A viewpoint locked to the vehicle, with as bouncy as PS vehicles are, will be a recipe for motion sickness.

I am ambivalent about third person for infantry. Handy, but also kind of OP with the ability to easily see around corners.

But vehicles just plain need third person view. I don't know of anyone who likes driving them with restricted views, and its common in almost every game that includes vehicles.

I personally would support a rotateable third person view for vehicles as well, so that I can see whats going on too when driving. Especially for unarmed vehicles like the ant, ams, and lodestar(at least when landed).

[Jonny]

Agree with CutterJohn. Third person is really needed on vehicles, but they can have a first person option for people who like it. In the jump (id say backwards) from ut2004 to ut3, alot of people complained how they'd restricted the vehicle views to a fixed third person position compared to 2004's scrollable view from first person to third and out quite a way.

That freedom of view was the most enjoyable.

[Valverde]

1st Person in my opinion, there should defiantly not be a mix, it is just unfair to those who use 1st person. Your better off with just one or the other.

[Firefly]

First person only for infantry-esque, vehicles first or third.

[Baneblade]

Infantry third person is a crutch for weak players. Period.

[Bags]

Infantry third person is a crutch for weak players. Period.

Do you have anything other than your opinion to back this up? I think it adds an interesting dynamic; just not indoors against an NC opponent.

[I SandRock]

Infantry third person is a crutch for weak players. Period.

Don't know, I never view it as such. But I guess it all depends on how you approach the game or what you want to get out of it.

I personally think it makes combat more tactical. Rather than just walk face first into enemies all the time. If they add a cover mechanic where you can peek around corners or a more mundane lean left/right mechanic then I think third person could be removed. But it adds a certain.. suave.. to the game. Rather than just the bluntness of running into people that you already have in pretty much every FPS game out there.

Weak players don't get an advantage because of it over stronger players. Because those 'better' players can use third person view to their advantage too. So there really is no advantage. Unless when you say weak players you mean people who do not possess solely the skills needed to kill another person when they bump into them head first. Like pure aim or reaction time. But I think there are plenty of other games out there that already offer that type of gameplay, and I find it rather shallow. I think adding different dimensions to games and thus catering to different skillsets is good. To me, third person view adds a more tactical element to the game.



I think it adds an interesting dynamic; just not indoors against an NC opponent.

Not sure, I think it actually gives a potential benefit against NC players indoors. Now you can look around a corner and see there is an NC with a jackhammer there, so you can try to keep your distance and play to his weakness. If it was just 1st person view, you'd likely go around that corner and run right into his barrel and he'd splatter your brains all over the place before you could blink an eye :P

[Bags]

Not to mention PSN isn't going to be terribly successful if it's a carbon clone of other F2P fps + massive fight.

[Sirisian]

I think it adds an interesting dynamic; just not indoors against an NC opponent.
Not sure, I think it actually gives a potential benefit against NC players indoors. Now you can look around a corner and see there is an NC with a jackhammer there, so you can try to keep your distance and play to his weakness. If it was just 1st person view, you'd likely go around that corner and run right into his barrel and he'd splatter your brains all over the place before you could blink an eye :P
Actually if you're running up to a corner you can't see whether it's a guy with a machine gun, jackhammer, or lasher. The whole idea that makes the tactic cheap is that the person standing on the corner can see you without revealing themselves. It gives them usually enough of an advantage to always win unless you go paranoid parrot on them and lob grenades around every corner.

Speaking of this a module to see enemies through walls like a thermal view would be nice. :)

As mentioned the most sane approach is first person infantry, and first/third person for vehicles. Infantry don't need third person. It's just used as a cheap trick to get the one-up on the enemy while staying completely safe. For vehicles third person gives no real advantage and just makes it easier to drive and back up. I for one fly my liberator in third person.

[I SandRock]

Actually if you're running up to a corner you can't see whether it's a guy with a machine gun, jackhammer, or lasher. The whole idea that makes the tactic cheap is that the person standing on the corner can see you without revealing themselves. It gives them usually enough of an advantage to always win unless you go paranoid parrot on them and lob grenades around every corner.

Speaking of this a module to see enemies through walls like a thermal view would be nice. :)

As mentioned the most sane approach is first person infantry, and first/third person for vehicles. Infantry don't need third person. It's just used as a cheap trick to get the one-up on the enemy while staying completely safe. For vehicles third person gives no real advantage and just makes it easier to drive and back up. I for one fly my liberator in third person.

That's only in one situation. A situation in which the defender is aware he is being attacked and plants an ambush while the attacker is unaware there is a defender. Which simply means the person with the intel has the tactical advantage. Which doesn't seem too unfair to me. If the situation is different and the defender doesn't know he is about to be attacked he won't be hiding and you can see him. I've had this plenty of times myself.
But even then. The advantage is still in the non-close combat guns player. Because without third person you have ZERO CHANCE of knowing that a person is there. Which means it is thus the more likely you'll bump into that defender with his jackhammer at point blank range. Thus giving him the overall advantage.


It's a mechanic that in most cases gives the defender an advantage. Which is fair play to me. Though you could also do some interesting things with it. Like only give agile/infil suits the third person ability. It would give them some greater use and makes sense to me. Rexo = blunt force. Agile = more suave.

Also I can't believe you're arguing against third person view but FOR a wallhack implant :p



But yeah, I think SOE did it on purpose to give defenders an edge. Which is more than likely to do with the balance of combat. The same is true in APB, defenders get this edge over attackers through third person view.

[Jonny]

Third person view for infantry is basically cheating. Maybe have a camera revolve after standing still for 30 secs like fallout.

[Sirisian]

Also I can't believe you're arguing against third person view but FOR a wallhack implant :p

Well I was thinking dark light range or something to see units that might be on the other side of a door waiting for you. Might be more of a cloaker utility though.

Okay here to solve this discussion for defenders. A combat engineering camera! You get the ability to place a camera on a wall and you get a small fuzzy camera screen pop up. Could be used with a boomer too. So a player like an NC would run up to a wall slam it on the wall then run back to hide and see a small screen pop up on their screen where they could keep track of a hallway.

Either that or some kind of laser motion sensor. Like you slam it on a wall and it makes an invisible line and anything that trips it pings your map.

I like these ideas since it could be used to track enemies in a base. Cloakers wouldn't set them off though obviously.

[I SandRock]

Well I was thinking dark light range or something to see units that might be on the other side of a door waiting for you. Might be more of a cloaker utility though.

Okay here to solve this discussion for defenders. A combat engineering camera! You get the ability to place a camera on a wall and you get a small fuzzy camera screen pop up. Could be used with a boomer too. So a player like an NC would run up to a wall slam it on the wall then run back to hide and see a small screen pop up on their screen where they could keep track of a hallway.

Either that or some kind of laser motion sensor. Like you slam it on a wall and it makes an invisible line and anything that trips it pings your map.

I like these ideas since it could be used to track enemies in a base. Cloakers wouldn't set them off though obviously.

I like the camera idea. And just for lols it should be like Splinter Cell conviction where you can make the camera play a silly tune to 'distract enemies':rofl:

[Baneblade]

Do you have anything other than your opinion to back this up? I think it adds an interesting dynamic; just not indoors against an NC opponent.

It reduces the value of good tactics by promoting generic and predictable results through minimal effort, thought, or planning.

It gives an overpowered ability to see someone who cannot see you despite there being no suitable cover for that.

There is no giant hovering camera giving away your being in third person.

There is no effective counter to a third person camper.

There is absolutely no reason to keep third person camera in for an FPS.

[Bags]

It reduces the value of good tactics by promoting generic and predictable results through minimal effort, thought, or planning.
I don't think this actually means anything.

It gives an overpowered ability to see someone who cannot see you despite there being no suitable cover for that.
It gives defenders a slight edge, which I believe is intended.

There is no giant hovering camera giving away your being in third person.
Or is there?

There is no effective counter to a third person camper.
Plasma / frag grenades work quite nicely

There is absolutely no reason to keep third person camera in for an FPS.

red

[Aractain]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sobekeus http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/images/ps/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showthread.php?p=560620#post560620)
It reduces the value of good tactics by promoting generic and predictable results through minimal effort, thought, or planning.
I don't think this actually means anything.
It means tactic A, B and C are never used because tactic D is the best. No choice, if you don't 3rd person your an idiot.

It gives an overpowered ability to see someone who cannot see you despite there being no suitable cover for that.
It gives defenders a slight edge, which I believe is intended.
Its not the defender its whoever is behind the wall, it was mostly used by tower droppers as the 'real' defenders had a line of MAXs.

There is no giant hovering camera giving away your being in third person.
Or is there?
If there is no one can see it so its not giving away their position...?

There is no effective counter to a third person camper.
Plasma / frag grenades work quite nicely
That might work well against idiots like me but all the good players have said that it dosn't work, I have no reason not to belive them.

Anyway the gameplay shouldn't be "corner = AOE SPAM!!!!". Thats really not what we want is it?

There is absolutely no reason to keep third person camera in for an FPS.

red

pink

[Baneblade]

Originally Posted by Bags
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sobekeus
It reduces the value of good tactics by promoting generic and predictable results through minimal effort, thought, or planning.
I don't think this actually means anything.
It means tactic A, B and C are never used because tactic D is the best. No choice, if you don't 3rd person your an idiot.
Exactly, all third person does is pigeon hole several different ways of doing something into one effective way, which adds predictability and lessens fun and variety. A 3p exploiter will almost always do exactly the same thing every time and will still be far more effective. Nothing should be that much of a boost to any single player.

It gives an overpowered ability to see someone who cannot see you despite there being no suitable cover for that.
It gives defenders a slight edge, which I believe is intended.
Its not the defender its whoever is behind the wall, it was mostly used by tower droppers as the 'real' defenders had a line of MAXs.
Right, defenders typically have little motive to do it unless they are defending specifically to 3p camp.

There is no giant hovering camera giving away your being in third person.
Or is there?
If there is no one can see it so its not giving away their position...?
The only way to know someone is camping in 3p definitively is to have them move out to kill someone. Most players just assume there is one around every corner. Not exactly the most game enhancing kind of paranoia... and still it does them no good to 'know there is someone there'.

There is no effective counter to a third person camper.
Plasma / frag grenades work quite nicely
That might work well against idiots like me but all the good players have said that it dosn't work, I have no reason not to belive them.

Anyway the gameplay shouldn't be "corner = AOE SPAM!!!!". Thats really not what we want is it?
Grenades work for the 3p camper. If you are humping around with a grenade in your hand, they know you don't likely stand a chance in killing them. Typically they will even let you hit them with it and just warp out to kill you anyway.

There is absolutely no reason to keep third person camera in for an FPS.

red

pink

Yella

[I SandRock]

Instead of give abstract notions of Tactic A, B, C and "several ways of doing it" could you give examples of what tactics third person camera removes that would be possible in first person camera only.

I think it's quite the opposite. With 1st person only the only scenario is "LALALALALALAL *turn around corner* *Oh fuck enemy!* *pew pew pew pew pew* 1 person dies.

With third person you can set up a boomer, you can retreat to a teammate, you can get out plasma nades to weaken them, you could circle around to get them from behind, you know they're coming so you can dodge them easier while in infiltration suit, you don't constantly get caught with your dick in your hands because just as you decided to repair/medic some random dude happens to come around the corner for no apparent reason. There's already plenty of those situations in the game >_< (Your gunner decides to get out of the skyguard after you went to the middle of nowhere so that he can repair as you forgot your gluegun and just as hes out a reaver flies over, spots you and blows you up - yesterday >__________________<)

[Sifer2]

Well what it would do is give less incentive to camp the corner in the first place. Since then yes you have no idea what is going to come around it. Instead now you will take up defensive position somewhere that's lets you see what is coming an retreat if you can't handle it.

[Valverde]

To the original Poster or Moderator,

Is there a way we can get a current score of 1st vs 3rd vs 1st&3rd at the beginning of the page? Not saying I don't want to read the specifics but I am actually curious with this communities overall decision on the matter.

[Bags]

So you say plasma doesn't work against 3p campers... and I say it does. Chances are I'm a better grunt than you, so I'm probably right.

Stop trying to nerf the game so you can compete with others and just practice.

[Valverde]

So you say plasma doesn't work against 3p campers... and I say it does. Chances are I'm a better grunt than you, so I'm probably right.

Stop trying to nerf the game so you can compete with others and just practice.

That isn't really a nerf as much as it is currently a handicap.

[Infektion]

Personally, I felt so lame using third person in a base, It gave you tremendous advantage. Even though you could also use it to look around while your moving too. Either way, I'm strictly against 3rd person POV while infantry. Games through out the years have done more than well w/o that exploiting POV. And the depth perception argument is a flawed one, because you'll learn how the world works. Thousands of players and I could throw a grenade in counter-strike or DoD in just the right spot, did we do it with 3rd person? I think not.

[Firefly]

So you say plasma doesn't work against 3p campers... and I say it does.
As much as I think Bags is an argumentative rabble-rouser, I'm going to have to agree. I'm not the best grunt in a video game but I can hold my own. And plasma and radiators work. If you just charge blindly into a tower without paying attention and without proper preparedness, without proper counter-tactics to the 3d-person POV gloryhole tactic, and you get your ass kicked, that's your fault. L2Play sir.

[Bags]

As much as I think Bags is an argumentative rabble-rouser, I'm going to have to agree. I'm not the best grunt in a video game but I can hold my own. And plasma and radiators work. If you just charge blindly into a tower without paying attention and without proper preparedness, without proper counter-tactics to the 3d-person POV gloryhole tactic, and you get your ass kicked, that's your fault. L2Play sir.

This. Most people who consider themselves honorable fighters (DT, TRx, etc) who are corner humping generally don't throw plasma unless they're outnumbered.

[Firefly]

I tried it once. It wasn't for me. I can see the reasons why someone would use it - it does present an advantage. Would that be an unfair advantage? No - because any player could technically do it using existing game mechanics.

I have no problems chucking plasma grenades or using a Thumper. But the bottom line is, be prepared when you walk into a tower or base stairwell, which is where I usually see it being used. It's common enough and people know it can be deadly when used by someone with a modicum of skill.

If you're going to cap a tower, you should be prepared. Drop a Motion Alarm. Use an implant. Have an orbiting Mossie. Come in from the top and surge down. It's not rocket science. This isn't a generic run-and-gun e-sport, it's a game in which tactics play a significant part in raising the average lifespan between respawns. Failure to treat it as such means you're going to get your ass kicked, a lot, by people who may or may not be as skilled.

[I SandRock]

This isn't a generic run-and-gun e-sport, it's a game in which tactics play a significant part in raising the average lifespan between respawns. Failure to treat it as such means you're going to get your ass kicked, a lot, by people who may or may not be as skilled.

THIS!

It would be horrible to see Planetside reduced to a generic FPS shooter with a persistent world. Let it stand out from Battlefield, COD, MoH, CS etc. etc. all those other shooters.

[Skraeling]

First for everything.

Infantry absolutely required.

Vehicles if your guy cant see you cant see.

Its really not that hard to drive from a first person view. I did it all day and night in wwiionline. Tanks planes boats whatever. Its all fixed first person. you get used to it and its really immersing .

[Valverde]

First for everything.

Infantry absolutely required.

Vehicles if your guy cant see you cant see.

Its really not that hard to drive from a first person view. I did it all day and night in wwiionline. Tanks planes boats whatever. Its all fixed first person. you get used to it and its really immersing .

I agree. I think in a game of skill, it takes more skill with limitations like 1st person. I mean does it suck because you will most likely get ganked by some dude hiding behind a corner ... Well yes, but that is the name of the game. BUT!!! I will mention this. I like third person solely for the fact I like being able to see my armor and ribbons. I don't customize my character for other people I do it for myself. Oh geez "I am as troubled as I once was a child" - Spock

[Firefly]

Its really not that hard to drive from a first person view. I did it all day and night in wwiionline. Tanks planes boats whatever. Its all fixed first person. you get used to it and its really immersing .
It's not hard, but I can tell you from lots and lots of experience that third-person POV in a vehicle helps people survive a little bit longer.

Example: I used to fly Liberators. I'd always have a tail gunner. We'd fly at max altitude so that a Reaver, Mossie or Wasp couldn't get above me. If one jumped on my tail, I'd be in third-person view scrolled all the way out. This allowed me to see incoming fire, and I could dodge enough to let my tail gunner have a decent chance of taking the guy out.

[Aractain]

Vehicles don't benfift all that much from 3rd person but it really helps with parking, so they need it.

Infantry don't

[Manitou]

To the original Poster or Moderator,

Is there a way we can get a current score of 1st vs 3rd vs 1st&3rd at the beginning of the page? Not saying I don't want to read the specifics but I am actually curious with this communities overall decision on the matter.
I have edited the thread to place the vote option per your request. Exercise your right to vote! :D

[Jonny]

I have edited the thread to place the vote option per your request. Exercise your right to vote! :D

Is this for infantry?

And do you mean only first and only third?

Only third person in an fps would be odd.

[Manitou]

Is this for infantry?

And do you mean only first and only third?

Only third person in an fps would be odd.
It is to be read in context with the thread's discussion of infantry first or third person.

[CutterJohn]

It is to be read in context with the thread's discussion of infantry first or third person.

Umm.. The thread is about both. Vehicles are mentioned right in the OP. Please add a 1st for infantry, 1st/3rd for vehicles option, else the poll is useless.

[Manitou]

Umm.. The thread is about both. Vehicles are mentioned right in the OP. Please add a 1st for infantry, 1st/3rd for vehicles option, else the poll is useless.
We aim to please. ;)

[Firefly]

FIRST VOTE.

[Timantium]

I voted FP, it is a FPS after all... the only place I think third person is appropriate is vehicles.

The control limitations caused by the simulator (only receiving command information from our hands) makes it really hard to keep it first person. Like it would be hard hard to have different controls to look out the side window for instance.

In actual life, we can turn our heads to look around (think about both pilots and drivers) in the game, looking out the side window cannot be accomplished by turning our head, we would have to use our hands to control our view direction. That would cause us to either turn the vehicle if the controls are linked or stop controlling the vehicle for the amount of time it takes us to look around. It just seems a little too awkward to me.

We should be able to see out the sides of our vehicles without having to use our hands to control view and steering at the same time. I do however think they should remove shooting target icon when in third person for the vehicles that have driver controlled weapons.

[Manitou]

FIRST VOTE.
Yeah, some had already voted, but I need to reset their vote so they can vote more accurately in the refined and ever so helpful updated poll. :)

[Manitou]

Yeah, some had already voted, but I need to reset their vote so they can vote more accurately in the refined and ever so helpful updated poll. :)
If you voted in the first poll which was edited, and cannot vote now, simply let me know upon which option you would like to place you vote and I will add it manually. Contact me via PM with your choice. (There were five of you and myself who had voted in the first poll who cannot now vote.)

[Skraeling]

Bugged for me.

Change mine to all first person

[Manitou]

Bugged for me.

Change mine to all first person
Done.

[klu]

why does this poll get no love? im more interested in this than the headshot debate (please vote)

[DviddLeff]

Agreed, getting third person out of the game for infantry is more important than the head shot issue.

[Hamma]

Voted! :)

[Sifer2]

It makes me a sad panda most people don't want first person vehicles according to poll. I still believe it adds more skill to driving/piloting. Third person is so arcade to me. An no I wont just "use first person then" since i'm not going to gimp myself for no reason.

If it was first person only it would also justify the development of really cool looking cockpits. With actual readable gauges an seeing your hand operate the joystick. Though they wont do that for an optional view no one will hardly use.

[etheral]

I would be in favour of 1st person across the board if, and only if, a player could look left or right 90 degrees, and possibly a rear view. Immersion is great and all, but in the middle of a battle good spatial awareness is more important

[PsychoXR-20]

If they removed 3rd person for infantry, Audio Amp might become a useful implant. :eek: (it's been a long time since I've played so maybe it better now, but it was pretty worthless back in the day)

But in all seriousness, I'm not sure if I'd want it removed or not, it's nice to have in some situations (running long distances outside) but is pretty cheap, and borderline exploitative in others (pillar camping in a tower).

Perhaps they could dynamically enable/disable the ability to use third person. If you are outside than you can use it, indoors you can't.

[Baneblade]

I would be in favour of 1st person across the board if, and only if, a player could look left or right 90 degrees, and possibly a rear view. Immersion is great and all, but in the middle of a battle good spatial awareness is more important

Maybe I'm just being noobish... but your mouse does a great job of showing you what is going on around you.

[etheral]

Maybe I'm just being noobish... but your mouse does a great job of showing you what is going on around you.

hmm, yeah I suppose I should clarify that statement :D. I meant vehicle 1st person view

[Sifer2]

I would be in favour of 1st person across the board if, and only if, a player could look left or right 90 degrees, and possibly a rear view. Immersion is great and all, but in the middle of a battle good spatial awareness is more important

Pretty sure it was able to be done in Battlefield. At least I remember driving a Jeep an being able to mouse left or right to look without turning the vehicle. And it had a rear view too. So its totally doable but I doubt they will make vehicles FP only since clearly most people can't handle it. Hell I've thought about it an really most people can't drive/pilot worth a crap in games as it is even with the help of the arcade camera view. Good pilots would be a rare breed for sure.

[Hamma]

Agreed if it was 1st person only in vehicles there needs to be a method to look around you.

[Baneblade]

You can do it already in the non floaty vehicles or aircraft. Some vehicles should have limited fields of view for the driver.

[Evilmp]

Originally Posted by Aractain View Post
Originally Posted by Bags
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sobekeus
It reduces the value of good tactics by promoting generic and predictable results through minimal effort, thought, or planning.
I don't think this actually means anything.
It means tactic A, B and C are never used because tactic D is the best. No choice, if you don't 3rd person your an idiot.
Exactly, all third person does is pigeon hole several different ways of doing something into one effective way, which adds predictability and lessens fun and variety. A 3p exploiter will almost always do exactly the same thing every time and will still be far more effective. Nothing should be that much of a boost to any single player.
agreement is had. 3rd person has no place in a first person game unless you are riding around in a vehicle.

It gives an overpowered ability to see someone who cannot see you despite there being no suitable cover for that.
It gives defenders a slight edge, which I believe is intended.
Its not the defender its whoever is behind the wall, it was mostly used by tower droppers as the 'real' defenders had a line of MAXs.
Right, defenders typically have little motive to do it unless they are defending specifically to 3p camp.
behind that line of MAXes watching for tower droppers, your third person defenders were always vigilant. the best defense for a third person camper was, in my opinion, a thumper.

There is no giant hovering camera giving away your being in third person.
Or is there?
If there is no one can see it so its not giving away their position...?
The only way to know someone is camping in 3p definitively is to have them move out to kill someone. Most players just assume there is one around every corner. Not exactly the most game enhancing kind of paranoia... and still it does them no good to 'know there is someone there'.
the thing is, there wasn't always someone there. and when a game has a continual "paranoia" as you say, it makes for a good scare when it actually happens. planetside isn't a horror game last i checked, and this never should have happened.

however, i regret nothing.

There is no effective counter to a third person camper.
Plasma / frag grenades work quite nicely
That might work well against idiots like me but all the good players have said that it dosn't work, I have no reason not to belive them.


Anyway the gameplay shouldn't be "corner = AOE SPAM!!!!". Thats really not what we want is it?
Grenades work for the 3p camper. If you are humping around with a grenade in your hand, they know you don't likely stand a chance in killing them. Typically they will even let you hit them with it and just warp out to kill you anyway.
as said before - you have a pretty good chance if you run in with a thumper. it's just like fishing. go third person yourself and hit them with frags. if they attack you just have to lead them up the stairs while they bath in your exploding balls of doom.

There is absolutely no reason to keep third person camera in for an FPS.

red

pink

yella
blue

[Bruttal]

I don't think we need to remove thrid person at all, just don't let us use it in doors.

[Effective]

If you remove third person, remove/change boomers. Cloakers will have a complete field day if TP is removed from PS.