Headshots...

[Kyonye]

Yes, I want them.

4 similar threads popped up. Which means in the last 9 years, I'm not the first person to have created a thread about it.

[basti]

Nobody wants them. Its a bad idea, plain and simple.

[Aractain]

I used to be against headshots but I realised that I was just using my experinces in COD (PPsh?) where headshots were instant kill and obtained by spamming the highest rate of fire weapon you could find.

It dosn't have to be like that, head shots could simply be a 20% increase in damage which is okay I guess.

Also seperate hitboxes for the rear/top of vehicles. Lets get some tactics into the tank warfare.

[Barbapapa123]

maybe just increase the damage done, otherwise cloakers would just kill most people with ease.

[Robert089]

Maybe only for snipers? For any other weapons it would be too easy to get headshots from spraying down a corridor, imagine the MCG spraying that 100 round clip in a narrow hallway, it's bound to get a couple of headshots. However I still think it would make sniping unbalanced, being instagibbed from someone hiding in a tree isn't fun.

I say this as a sniper, as it is now it is balanced, deadly in the open or against wounded enemies but when assaulting a base it works as a suppression weapon, keeping the enemies behing cover.

If headshots were introduced you would have the same problem I remember having in Battlefield: Bad Company 2, whole squads of snipers sitting on a hill, gaining their exp while the objectives never get touched because it is so easy to farm kills.

Plus there is an element of fun to be had in working in sniper pairs, co-ordinating on teamspeak to get the instant kills.

[ArcticPrism]

No to head shots. The kill speed is already fast without them and adding more doesn't help the game. Cloakers would benefit too much from head shots and this is also one of the few shooters where snipers don't completely dominate other infantry.

[DviddLeff]

I want them.

They add to both the skill and luck of combat. Skill is obvious, but the luck takes a major part; it is odd that it always takes an exact amount of shots to kill anything. It also gives an attacker who approaches from he side or rear more of an advantage.

Weak points on vehicles also adds tactics to the game, making flanking actions much more effective.

You complain about snipers and clockers; he cloakers will kill the snipers for starters, and just call in the reavers if they don't. Cloakers will get a buff from this sure... But honestly how often do you get killed by one wielding a pistol currently? Personally twice in the two months I have been resubscribed.

Oh and a lot of people did not like the game at release because of the lack of headshots, which were already well established in fps games back in 2003.

[Bags]

I want them.

They add to both the skill and luck of combat. it is odd that it always takes an exact amount of shots to kill anything. .

Not sure if serious. I'm not sure if I read this right. You want to add luck to a game? Nothing is worse than adding RNG to games.

And no, there is no need for headshots. No infantry should ever be able to instagib another infantry. Everyone would roll sniper and no one would ever push the objective, see TF2.

[etheral]

One of the best parts of planetside (at least for me), was that there were no infantry to infantry instagibs apart from the JH triple back in the day, which I never approved of. Do we want open field battles to become a massive game of quick draw? If sniper weapons become able to instagib players, then that is all people will use because the easiest way to farm BEP will be to camp in one spot and headshot enemies as they come out of the AMS, and if you think otherwise, you are fooling yourself. Also, the 'skill' argument is flawed, because anyone can be a half decent sniper in PS. Once you become used to the sensitive CoF and bullet travel time it essentially becomes a point and click kill generator.

Tanks and the like receiving more damage based on where they get hit is a good idea though. Would be nice to see infantry and armour being able to ambush vehicles

*edit* never thought id see myself agreeing with Bags :)

[Duffman]

I dont think he is asking for instagib but headshots should just increase damage not necessarily instant kill

[Baneblade]

All I want is to make tracking a moving target less about prediction and more about skill.

I don't even fear snipers as a foot soldier, because avoiding them is so easy, even in wide open ground.

[Bags]

All I want is to make tracking a moving target less about prediction and more about skill.

I don't even fear snipers as a foot soldier, because avoiding them is so easy, even in wide open ground.

That's mostly due to warping. I can't snipe because past 100 m everyone warps so badly when they strafe with surge.

[ArcticPrism]

I want them.

They add to both the skill and luck of combat. Skill is obvious, but the luck takes a major part; it is odd that it always takes an exact amount of shots to kill anything. It also gives an attacker who approaches from he side or rear more of an advantage.

I'd hardly call head shots skill considering the high ROF of weapons that most of the weapons have. Not to mention the extremely tight indoor environments where most infantry battles are.

Why would you want to add luck to the game? So people can cry all day about "Lucky head shot" "You lucker" etc etc etc. Adding luck adds nothing positive to the game.

Weak points on vehicles also adds tactics to the game, making flanking actions much more effective.

You complain about snipers and clockers; he cloakers will kill the snipers for starters, and just call in the reavers if they don't. Cloakers will get a buff from this sure... But honestly how often do you get killed by one wielding a pistol currently? Personally twice in the two months I have been resubscribed.

Players should not be certing cloaking to be an invisible infantry that can rack up kills. It's a support roll in my opinion. As far as the Reaver argument, there are rarely packs of snipers on hills without AA MAXs, Cerberus Turrets, or an AMS near by.

Oh and a lot of people did not like the game at release because of the lack of headshots, which were already well established in fps games back in 2003.

That's fine. I'm sure there are more of us who don't want the head shots. Besides, the game did fine anyways without them.

Cyan stuff.

[Rbstr]

I want a real hitbox system and "realistic" weapons handling, headshots are part of that.

A "deadlier" set of weapons and the more cover-fire based, faster-paced, live or die, longer ranged gameplay it will encourage does indeed make a headshot not simply a skill proposition until you get quite close. TF2 is certainly not the damage model I'm looking for, which is very near the opposite of a real game (though it has it's merits).

I see a pistol taking 2 headshots on a standard, 3 agile, 4 rexo. MA would shift it down one for each. Sniper would be similar to MA, the difference being scopes, less degradation and more accuracy, not so much damage. I too hate the single shot sniper in most situations...but if you're running around in pajamas that's your price. Though I think if BC2 was single-shot-kill on headshots only (as it is, a single body shot kills) the sniper would be less of a problem.

A shotgun or big ass vehicle machine gun to the face kills you, that's just common sense.
Though, vehicles become and interesting balance issue with infantry deadly weapons when there really isn't a controlled spawn limit, as we'd expect in PS. It may be better to rock-paper scissors those a bit.

I don't like this assumption that PS:N's differences should work in the context of the original's mechanics only. For instance, again, a cone-of-fire recoil system like PS's is obsolete crap that has no place in a modern game, people new to PS are going to think it's dumb. What you want to see in PS:N should take that kind of thing into account.

[Bags]

I want a real hitbox system and "realistic" weapons handling, headshots are part of that.

A "deadlier" set of weapons and the more cover-fire based, faster-paced, live or die, longer ranged gameplay it will encourage does indeed make a headshot not simply a skill proposition until you get quite close. TF2 is certainly not the damage model I'm looking for, which is very near the opposite of a real game (though it has it's merits).

I see a pistol taking 2 headshots on a standard, 3 agile, 4 rexo. MA would shift it down one for each. Sniper would be similar to MA, the difference being scopes, less degradation and more accuracy, not so much damage. I too hate the single shot sniper in most situations...but if you're running around in pajamas that's your price. Though I think if BC2 was single-shot-kill on headshots only (as it is, a single body shot kills) the sniper would be less of a problem.

A shotgun or big ass vehicle machine gun to the face kills you, that's just common sense.
Though, vehicles become and interesting balance issue with infantry deadly weapons when there really isn't a controlled spawn limit, as we'd expect in PS. It may be better to rock-paper scissors those a bit.


I can't imagine a base fight where people die in two to four bullets.

[DviddLeff]

I'm sure there are more of us who don't want the head shots. Besides, the game did fine anyways without them.

So halving the amount of servers within 6 months of release is successful?

Head shots are expected in a FPS; can you name any that don't have them?

[Rbstr]

I can't imagine a base fight where people die in two to four bullets.

Good, because base fights were the worst part of the game. Cram everyone in a shitty little corridor or stairwell and have a giant cluster fuck! Admittedly a lot of that was just crappy level design and not a weapons problem.

No one is going to get headshot after headshot, no one ever does in close range fight. Especially when you take into account 4 headshots in a row will be essentially impossible with recoil considerations. At most you're going to get one in any given burst. Plus, if bodyshots are relatively deadly, lots of people will aim for that if they aren't particularly good at aiming.

[Bags]

Good, because base fights were the worst part of the game. Cram everyone in a shitty little corridor or stairwell and have a giant cluster fuck! Admittedly a lot of that was just crappy level design and not a weapons problem.

No, not good. Indoor fights were some of my favorite fights pre-everyone-having-unimax-and-SA. Long outdoor fights are some of my least favorite, but there's no need for me to petition to remove them.

People can get plenty of headshots in a row point blank. You should look up JH's TF2 frag video "Auto-aim".

[etheral]

So halving the amount of servers within 6 months of release is successful?

Head shots are expected in a FPS; can you name any that don't have them?

PS's faliure had nothing to do with lack of headshots and everything to do with repetitive gameplay and lack of a sense of achevement after getting max BR/CR.

Headshots would add nothing to gameplay apart from noobs getting frustrated and possibly ragequitting because they keep getting facerolled by the veterans. That means less people to shoot, which will eventually lead to PS:N failing. PS and most likely PS:N, more than any other MMO, lives or dies by the size of its playerbase. Anything that alienates new players is a bad thing.

Realism has to take a backseat to fun

[Bags]

PS's faliure had nothing to do with lack of headshots and everything to do with repetitive gameplay and lack of a sense of achevement after getting max BR/CR.

Realism has to take a backseat to fun

No... PS's failure had to do with the introduction of 1 man killing machines known as BFRs. Sony gave up on the game once they were introduced and it slowly declined since.

Not sure why everyone keeps thinking repetition killed planetside, when every game ever is as repetitious or more so than planetside.

[DviddLeff]

What like all the current FPS games? Sure its a steep learning curve, but its worth it.

If anything a lack of head shots will alienate more players than it will encourage to leave.

[Bags]

What like all the current FPS games? Sure its a steep learning curve, but its worth it.

If anything a lack of head shots will alienate more players than it will encourage to leave.

I know this is anecdotal... but I've never heard anyone I know online/real life complain about a PC game not having headshots.

[etheral]

No... PS's failure had to do with the introduction of 1 man killing machines known as BFRs. Sony gave up on the game once they were introduced and it slowly declined since.

Not sure why everyone keeps thinking repetition killed planetside, when every game ever is as repetitious or more so than planetside.

Fair point on the BFRs, but is any MMO quite as repetitious as Planetside? the same battles over and over on the same 6 base maps? Open field fights were one of the few times you saw some variation.

[DviddLeff]

Again anecdotal, but I remember a whole lot of people saying that PS was lame back in beta because of the COF system and the lack of head shots.

Edit: Regarding repetition, how often do you think the average CS player has played through de_dust? :D

[Bags]

I like the COF system. Adds skill (well, the random spray doesn't. But managing your COF does). In COD all you have to do is continuously drag your mouse down and you can just run and gun. PS you need to burst, crouch, take cover, etc.

[DviddLeff]

Both the COF and recoil systems have their merits, but again most FPS players are familiar with recoil rather than COF, so if possible PSN should perhaps move to recoil to make the game feel familiar to the new players.

[I SandRock]

No.

I say that with one reason in mind only that for me, shatters any other arguments:
It promotes cheating/hacking (aimbot) and rewards those who do even more.

And it doesn't add that much more fun for me either. In fact I think it limits fun, because everyone will be trying to get headshots only. For me in CS:S it feels like what defines you being a good player is whether or not you can keep your crosshair at the exact height player's heads. Without headshots you get some more versatility and tactical options weapon wise rather than everyone going for the weapon that is best to get headshots and only aiming to do that.

It also makes balancing much more of a pain. VS for instance would be useless with their Lasher since you have to aim it down to the feet for splash damage. It just limits versatility for me. But yeah, my most important reason to be against it is the first one given.

[Lartnev]

I was under the impression that hit boxes weren't in PlanetSide for performance reasons rather than gameplay ones.

Either way I'd like to see headshots do bonus damage, but only one shot kill if the target in question hasn't got a helmet. It is the future after all. ;)

[Bags]

No.

I say that with one reason in mind only that for me, shatters any other arguments:
It promotes cheating/hacking (aimbot) and rewards those who do even more.

This is another VERY good reason.

[DviddLeff]

Regarding the fact that hit boxes cause lag, this was stated by a dev way back to explain the lack of head shots.

Then they implemented BFRs with at least 5 different hit boxes on a single vehicle...

[Sirisian]

I'm against headshots. They don't add anything except make it easier for me to kill people. So instead of trying to shoot a character I'll just aim for the head.

Also stop with the "I want characters to die in 4 hits" idea. You can take damage and still find cover so you can heal and repair.

Also adding more hitboxes to a character doesn't affect performance in any significant way. They're usually handled with a hierarchy of bounding boxes making the process trivially cheap.</programmer>

[Daimond]

this is not a good idea, the game is alreay fast enough at times in death. and no need to have dumb luck added to the mix. This would be a Different matter if , there was not vehicals and smaller maps such as in a normal FPS game where you have 2 sides with 16 people, and maps no larger then a base at most times and no vehicals.

and it was not the fact that people didnt have head shots in the game that made people not play it was stubrenis of people even today still compairing this to Counter strike or Unreal. this is a FPS/RPG on a massive skale that you can have 3 teams on 1 maps each whit 100 guys in the fight. so in compairing a fight of 300 people to a game of at most 32, is not good, even some games that tryed to say they were simular still cant hold a candle to the size and scale of war here.

The fact is to for every Hit box you add to the game on a scale this size the more your comp and server has to track, increasing posable lag. in hence you would have to sacrifice stuff to gane others such as grafix or selection of items to use on field, or even players in field to offset the increase of load. and this is not easy either just haveing 2 hit boxes on a target as to 1 does not sacle load by 2x, the factor is increase by lest 3x depending on weapons tracked and if stray pellets/bullets hit another target the factor can increase by 6x more. would cuase alot of lag.

So if you can have 300 people in your view for the hell of it you would have to with out shooting a weapon keep track of 600 hit boxes let alone the air vehicals, and the demendancies of what weapon your using, and all your resolution and grafix settings.

[Hamma]

I have thought about this quite a bit myself based on conversations in other threads and now this one. At first I was for headshots until i thought about it a bit more.

Now I do think we need better actual hit boxes. But the speed of combat and the way things work in PlanetSide just aren't a good mix with headshots. The reason for my thinking is that in PlanetSide there are just to many bullets flying around all the time, there is far to much chance of just getting randomly leveled by a rogue bullet.

Realistic? Yes, but this isn't a realistic game. You have to think of the fun factor as well when it comes to things like this. And for me in such a massive game it would not be fun to get whacked with headshots all the time.

[Kyonye]

Wow.... I have to admit I'm surprised by the lack of useless argument. This entire thread (besides Basti's idea that his voice counts for all) has been a nice debate.

I'm for headshot's in the sense that getting shot in the head counts more towards damage then getting shot in the leg. I know for me I love the realism in games. I understand that on a large scale it might be difficult to implement this kind of realism. Although, it would be hard to truly know anything unless it were implemented and tested. Isn't that what Alpha and Beta testing is for? Maybe they could test it and see how it is received.

[Baneblade]

The Bottom Line is:

Unless you can guarantee there will be no aim botting of any kind, instagib infantry weapons do not belong.

[Lartnev]

The devs could just as easily make head hitboxes the current damage, and make the other hitboxes take less damage. Food for thought perhaps?

I'd only like hitboxes for the joy of long range marksmanship given the in the open air. It doesn't add to the high-speed gameplay in the confines of a base.

[I SandRock]

The devs could just as easily make head hitboxes the current damage, and make the other hitboxes take less damage. Food for thought perhaps?

Thats just cup is half full vs cup is half empty really, since damage numbers aren't set in stone to begin with :P

[BlazingSun]

Headshots are probably not a good idea for PS. Just imagine a crowded corridor. Now imagine shooting with a lasher or something similar into that corridor at head-hight. Or Thumper grenades into the group from above! It would be ridiculous.

[ArcticPrism]

What like all the current FPS games? Sure its a steep learning curve, but its worth it.

If anything a lack of head shots will alienate more players than it will encourage to leave.

So halving the amount of servers within 6 months of release is successful?

Head shots are expected in a FPS; can you name any that don't have them?

Holding your crosshair on someone's head isn't a steep learning curve. It isn't even a learning curve at all.

It doesn't matter if other shooters have head shots. Why do so many people want Planetside to be like every other game? Having no head shots isn't going to "halve the amount of servers". There are plenty of people who like head shots in shooters, but there are also plenty of people who don't find dying in 1-3 shots fun.

Like other people said, head shots also promote cheating. There is no need to add more ways for people to cheat to the game. Then there is also the problem of lag influencing that, and then a lot of the time you will just be frustrated because it can often be hard to tell when someone is cheating, is "good" or is getting a lot of lucky head shots. "Is he cheating?" "That guy is fishy." "GM. Please ban this guy for aim bot!"

[CutterJohn]

I would support weakpoints on vehicles and MAXs(like shooting them in the back). On infantry.. They have helmets, which is the best armor on the body.

[Tool]

I think it's safe to say Planetside in it's current state was not entirely successful with regards to the FPS genre. If people want PS2 to have staying power with a healthy subscriber base sacrifices may have to be made in order to compete with current and future games of it's ilk.

With that said I am all for locational damage, like the suggested above it doesn't necessarily mean OSK for infantry weapons but perhaps increased damage for vital areas while decreasing damage for non such as hands, arms, feet and legs. There's nothing random about it just the fact it will reward those who take time to line up their shots.

The downside however which is often overlooked, is something KornD touched on with his post. Regarding AOE weaponry or empire specific weaponry such as the Lasher and how locational damage may affect or be effected by it.

All I know is if Sony wishes to compete in the FPS market, even though it is an MMO, things will have to change in order to bring and keep more subscribers.

[Bags]

PS only failed because of BFRs and Sony gave up on it.

[Tool]

PS only failed because of BFRs and Sony gave up on it.

To say Planetside failed only because of BFRs is quite frankly ignorant. Sorry

Giving up on it's future development and advertising my have been the result of many things. Starting development on PS2 may have been one of those if it's actually as far along in it's development as implied.

[CutterJohn]

In other games, there is generally one hitpoint pool, and shots to the head get a multiplier added. Splash damage will simply not invoke that multiplier.

Which, btw, is another thing. There is no reason the multiplier for headshots must be the same for all weapons, so close range things like HA could have very small headshot multipliers.

Another thing that could be done, now that I think of it, is recognizing that the head is the most well armored portion of the body. Well... We have AP ammo, don't we? It could be made that, to do get a headshot bonus multiplier, you have to use AP ammo. This makes the capacity to do headshots a choice that can backfire on you, since missing and hitting the body will result in the normal subpar damage of AP ammo vs grunts. It wouldn't be a random lucky bonus damage if you are just spraying with white ammo.

I also think headshots need not apply for any vehicle mounted weapons. They have enough advantages.

What like all the current FPS games? Sure its a steep learning curve, but its worth it.

If anything a lack of head shots will alienate more players than it will encourage to leave.

TF2, one of the most popular ones out there. Snipers are the only ones that can get headshots, and then only with the sniper rifles, and even then only while zoomed.

Of course many current FPS games have tons of instagib weapons. Grenades, rocket launchers, certain shotguns at point blank range, instakill knives. Shall planetside have those too since they are in almost all current fps games, and the lack of them will alienate players?

[Bags]

To say Planetside failed only because of BFRs is quite frankly ignorant. Sorry

Giving up on it's future development and advertising my have been the result of many things. Starting development on PS2 may have been one of those if it's actually as far along in it's development as implied.

Subs started dropping when Sony destroyed the balance of the game, ignored the problem, fixed it too late, and then stopped supporting the game. Given the available information, you can only guess that the game declined due to other reasons. Sorry if my informed analysis seems ignorant to you.

[Tool]

PS only failed because of BFRs and Sony gave up on it.

Subs started dropping when Sony destroyed the balance of the game, ignored the problem, fixed it too late, and then stopped supporting the game. Given the available information, you can only guess that the game declined due to other reasons. Sorry if my informed analysis seems ignorant to you.

Nothing seemingly about it, you assume that Planetside had enough success before BFRs to warrant such a claim. As a long time FPS and ex-league player, it was a safe assumption after playing a whole two months after Planetsides release to see it's lack of FPS depth and vision.

Many things led to it's gradual, not steep decline. I'm not denying that BFRs played a role but to assume it was such a large factor is, in and of itself, ignorant.

[TRex]

Headshots are probably not a good idea for PS. Just imagine a crowded corridor. Now imagine shooting with a lasher or something similar into that corridor at head-hight. Or Thumper grenades into the group from above! It would be ridiculous.

I totally agree with this .Not to mention the extra lag it would induce to all the calculations as to whether you were hit in the head or body or whatever.

I'd rather the game have upper and lower torso hit-boxes , hitting lower torso reduced their movement slightly , hitting upper torso reduced their aim. Not affecting the damage , just their advantage . But, for same reason I discount this also, all for the better of a smooth lag free experience. And the less there is in the game to be hacked or manipulated the better imo.

Vehicles, on the other hand, having a multiple hit box may work : softer at the back , harder at the front could work.

[Sirisian]

I totally agree with this .Not to mention the extra lag it would induce to all the calculations as to whether you were hit in the head or body or whatever.
Please don't make these comments. I can assure you the operation of having 2 or even 100 bounding boxes wouldn't affect performance.

I'd rather the game have upper and lower torso hit-boxes , hitting lower torso reduced their movement slightly , hitting upper torso reduced their aim. Not affecting the damage , just their advantage . But, for same reason I discount this also, all for the better of a smooth lag free experience. And the less there is in the game to be hacked or manipulated the better imo.
I'd be all for this as long as it did no extra damage. Shooting a soldier in the leg with a sniper to slow them down then taking the final shot as they limp for cover would be neat.

[Aractain]

That would be cool, but you don't want that from every weapon so having different effects for different weapons would be really cool.

I see a lot of people talking about 'insta-big'. No way should there be ANY instagiv stuff. Not even vehicles IMO.
Head shots would be minor modifiers to reward hitting accuraly. With an MCG thats just not going to happen so its more about rifles or snipers (which would still not instagib).

Also about PS level of success; it basically failed on launch day. It never achived what they expected (about 100k? I think) and they had to merge servers in a few months. I belive more people played PS beta than bought the game. Sub + internet connections + gameplay which wasn't great (talking about gunplay not massive battles) compared to 'free' alternatives at the time caused this I think.

[Sifer2]

Headshots really don't fit. An they actually imbalance many FPS games in my opinion. I mean they fit something like Unreal Tournament where its actually difficult to pull off without an aim bot. But not a slower paced tactics focused game like Planetside. Spray an pray weapons would suddenly become way better than they should be by just spamming shots at head level.

I would rather see Iron Sights, Prone position, an Vehicle weak spots than Headshots.

[I SandRock]

When I introduced my friends to PS they didn't play for long because they didn't give it much of a chance. They felt it took to long to get into the action and there was quite a bit of a learning curve to know all the weapons, enemy weapons and how to handle them properly. And performance was poor compared to the machines they had at the time.
Not so much because they complained about balance or no headshots.

I've been secretly plotting to kill them ever since.....


For me I quit PS several times and came back. I tended to quit when I started to realize again how nothing really mattered. You fought for a a base, a continent, etc. and then you woke up the next morning and it had all swapped hands again and you were back to square 1. When this became obvious, I'd usually start to lose interest and quit. Hopefully PS will have more of a win condition, perhaps like GA.

[Tool]

When I introduced my friends to PS they didn't play for long because they didn't give it much of a chance. They felt it took to long to get into the action and there was quite a bit of a learning curve to know all the weapons, enemy weapons and how to handle them properly. And performance was poor compared to the machines they had at the time.
Not so much because they complained about balance or no headshots.

I've been secretly plotting to kill them ever since.....


For me I quit PS several times and came back. I tended to quit when I started to realize again how nothing really mattered. You fought for a a base, a continent, etc. and then you woke up the next morning and it had all swapped hands again and you were back to square 1. When this became obvious, I'd usually start to lose interest and quit. Hopefully PS will have more of a win condition, perhaps like GA.

True true, I personally think much of that lack of accomplishment stems from the MMO prefixed to FPS. Consider it this way, the idea of playing an MMO instills people with predetermined ideas and concepts:

-Character development
-Loot and inventory systems
-Sprawling, developed world and interactions
-Options (level, PvP, craft, etc.)

Now generally with those notions, weather perceived or not is generally what people consider to be part of most MMOs, among other things.

When you try to apply it to an FPS (with their current, popular model) It's hard to blend the two physical and mentally. If say you wanted to play an FPS, there's a plethora of options. I chose to play Counter-strike Source. I'd go in with certain expectations judging from stated above. I'd have no MMO expectations what-so-ever.

If you go into Planetside with FPS expectations, many FPS players would be quick to judge, just like you said about your friends and perhaps relating to Smedleys post about getting players to the action faster.

Planetside is a pioneer in a lot of ways, unfortunately it has a sordid history with many mistakes made. SOE has their work cut out for them trying to make the term MMOFPS a standard rather than a dream or bad taste in your mouth.

[Sifer2]

Yeah that's the thing original Planetside kind of lacked appeal to both FPS'ers an MMO'ers. It lacked the long term progression for MMO players since bases were just constantly lost again an BR rank was maxed relatively fast. An the FPS'ers kind of lacked the fast balanced little deathmatches they are used to.

It sounds like with Smed's comment on Sanctuaries they are doing something to speed it up an appeal to the FPS crowd. I hope they don't forget it needs to be an MMO though as well.

[Warruz]

Yes add them, please add them! Gives so much more choice and reason to your gun choice.

But as others said perhaps make the dmg to the head based on the type of gun, a sniper doing absurd extra damage while something that is assault rifle esc do less but something more and chain gun do nothing extra or extremely minor.

But i am definitely for tanks and such having more armor in the front and less in the back

[Bags]

Yes add them, please add them! Gives so much more choice and reason to your gun choice.

Could you explain this in more detail?

[LordReaver]

I'm not sure how to explain it, but I don't care for headshots.

[Jonny]

I don't see a problem with headshots doing 30% more damage or so, as your shooting at a smaller target so its a trade off with that increased chance to miss.

[Miir]

I'm for head shots. I'd like to see something like this.

No helmet = instant kill with sniper rifle or heavier precision weapons.
With Helmet = instant kill with sniper rifle only from a minimum distant. There has to be a purpose for a sniper rifle if not remove it from the game.

All other weapons take a couple head shots to kill at closer ranges.

What I'd like to see changed is spawn times or how you respawn back into the battle. I liked being able to spawn on your squad leader like in some other games assuming they are still alive. Anything to keep the action going.

I don't care if I die more as long as I can get back to the battle front. Having to wait to respawn at the nearest tower or AMS and then run back to the front lines was/is annoying.

[Valverde]

I'm for head shots. I'd like to see something like this.

No helmet = instant kill with sniper rifle or heavier precision weapons.
With Helmet = instant kill with sniper rifle only from a minimum distant. There has to be a purpose for a sniper rifle if not remove it from the game.

All other weapons take a couple head shots to kill at closer ranges.

What I'd like to see changed is spawn times or how you respawn back into the battle. I liked being able to spawn on your squad leader like in some other games assuming they are still alive. Anything to keep the action going.

I don't care if I die more as long as I can get back to the battle front. Having to wait to respawn at the nearest tower or AMS and then run back to the front lines was/is annoying.

I don't know. To me a head shot is a head shot. With armor ok I can see a second chance depending on the caliber, but any gun shot to the head should be a instant kill. I know that might seem a little bit more realistic then normal but when it comes to shooters rather it be rockets or bullet, its annoying to see a ground troop survive a headshot or a blasting of rockets.

I don't see a problem with headshots doing 30% more damage or so, as your shooting at a smaller target so its a trade off with that increased chance to miss.


I'm not sure how to explain it, but I don't care for headshots.

Answer to both of these is this is a shooter, not a roleplay game. The idea that a head shot should allow for a 30% of health is both annoying and not very shooter like. I know some games have done this but if I wanted to play a RPG I would. I think they should just toss the whole health bar completely and change it to battle wounds. They could keep the armor maybe as a hit reduction.

[Jonny]

Answer to both of these is this is a shooter, not a roleplay game. The idea that a head shot should allow for a 30% of health is both annoying and not very shooter like. I know some games have done this but if I wanted to play a RPG I would. I think they should just toss the whole health bar completely and change it to battle wounds. They could keep the armor maybe as a hit reduction.

Dont get where you're coming from here. I'm just saying a headshot should do more damage than a bodyshot, how much is up to the devs.

Don't know where you're getting the rpg thing about.

[Aractain]

You know Half-Life? You know it had a damage multiplier on head shots right. Not instant kill.

[Manitou]

What I'd like to see changed is spawn times or how you respawn back into the battle. I liked being able to spawn on your squad leader like in some other games assuming they are still alive. Anything to keep the action going.

I don't care if I die more as long as I can get back to the battle front. Having to wait to respawn at the nearest tower or AMS and then run back to the front lines was/is annoying.
This is the perfect topic for a new thread and discussion right here, if one hasn't already been started...

Spawning on squad leaders would flat own...

[Valverde]

I'm not sure how to explain it, but I don't care for headshots.

Dont get where you're coming from here. I'm just saying a headshot should do more damage than a bodyshot, how much is up to the devs.

Don't know where you're getting the rpg thing about.

Wasn't really disagreeing with you like I said I was answering both posts. But what I was getting at was roughly the same, a head shot should either be an instant kill or significant more damage then a body. Plus nextime they need to make things more clear. If you read the rifles (snipers) they mention they are one shot kills I believe against light armor soldiers, but I found this to be completely untrue.

[Sifer2]

This is the perfect topic for a new thread and discussion right here, if one hasn't already been started...

Spawning on squad leaders would flat own...


In Battlefield 2142 the squad leader could drop this beacon on the ground where all his squad members could choose as a respawn point via orbital drop pod. It worked pretty well but then that game was 64 players max so scale was different.

Thing is I very much like the AMS. An a large part of the battle in Planetside is about control over places to respawn when it boils down to it. So letting people respawn all over the place willy nilly has to be done carefully cause this ain't COD.

Both Headshots an respawning on Squad Lead may just not belong in Planetside though I could see at least giving the latter a test run in Beta to see how it goes.

[CutterJohn]

This is the perfect topic for a new thread and discussion right here, if one hasn't already been started...

Spawning on squad leaders would flat own...

Spawning on squad leaders would result in way too many gen holds and base incursions, as a single cloaky gets in and has his squad spawn on him.


I could see more access to spawn vehicles, perhaps. A galaxy spawn variant, or deliverer. Neither with cloaks, ofc.

[Skraeling]

Ok first post. After stalking many new games (I just tried Rift, good, but felt too much like warhammer/wow. lot of been there done that).

I started looking for a new game to try and rememberd that this one is eventually going to come out. I really enjoyed the first one though I didnt play it that long as my computer at the time was terrible.

I want headshots. Maybe Im a tad more hardcore. I come from the infantry and tank ilk that played wwiionline. In that game if you were not better than someone else you usually died. Infantry could be disabled/killed by a single shot much like a real person would. They even had individual organ systems modeled if I remember. So you would if it was a non instantly lethal hit sometimes just bleed to death hehe.

I think the room to expand on the damage modeling for player characters should be undertaken. Now maybe not to that extent, but come on if I have better aim than the other guy I should be damn well rewarded for it. Coming down to who just has the higher rate of fire weapon is silly.


As well better damage modeling with vehicles would be great too. Taking out an engine on a tank/aircraft would be pretty cool.

I really really enjoyed the realisim that I had in wwiionline. Accurate penetration models and subsystems for vehicles and infantry. If just a little bit of that were carried into this game it would make it something special.

As far as people saying it would be too hard to add that kind of accuracy without lagging stuff? I disagree. Computer tech is much much better than it was back then. Multi blading of servers and load sharing should easily enable something like this.

If eve online can have several hundred people shooting each other then this should be doable as well.

[Jonny]

I think the room to expand on the damage modeling for player characters should be undertaken. Now maybe not to that extent, but come on if I have better aim than the other guy I should be damn well rewarded for it. Coming down to who just has the higher rate of fire weapon is silly.

This. I think damage variety on a player is a good thing. Headshots make an fps more interesting and reward a better aim. It can be balanced and as I say you have a higher chance of missing when aiming for the head so theres a trade off.

I also like the idea of making it faster to get back into the action, but in a controlled way where a quick respawn near the battle is a result of someones work setting up a hidden spawn point/forward base/whatever.

[Moneypennie]

I have played a lot of fps with head shots. I have played COD a lot in the past years specifically. Head shots take more skill, have some luck, does a good job separating "good" players from "great ones" and started the whole "quick scoping" type of game play. I like COD and BF, but I LOVE planetside. Why?

Planetside was not about the individual player and how good one player was over the other. It was about team work and team tactics. It was always more rewarding to attack a position with a highly practiced outfit or platoon.

The easier it is to kill targets as one person, the less rewarding "teamwork" will be. If you guys want a call of duty or battlefield game, there are hundreds out there, but they all have VERY limited teamwork involved. If you want a game that has 40+ people working together, all you have is WoW (no head shots or hit boxes in wow btw.) which I can't stand.

Plus, with hit boxes and increased damage (or instant kills), it makes the game easier for hackers to use aim bots. If you die in one shot, you can't tell if they have an aim bot. In planetside now, if you die in one shot, you know it was from a hacker.

Take all the rewards out of 1 v 1 situations, make it harder for people to die, you make working with a team essential and that is what made planetside great for me.

Though maybe all your outfits sucked and you could never kill anything anyway. I didn't have that problem being in Band of Bros on Emerald. But you can join us when the new game comes out :) Sorry, had to get in my flame, I apologize.

Hit boxes on armor would increase teamwork, so I think it's a good idea. Armor will need to roll out with a mix of different vehicles to minimize disadvantages, and attackers will need to coordinate when attacking armor columns.

An increase in teamwork is good, decrease in teamwork: bad.

[Valverde]

I have played a lot of fps with head shots. I have played COD a lot in the past years specifically. Head shots take more skill, have some luck, does a good job separating "good" players from "great ones" and started the whole "quick scoping" type of game play. I like COD and BF, but I LOVE planetside. Why?

Planetside was not about the individual player and how good one player was over the other. It was about team work and team tactics. It was always more rewarding to attack a position with a highly practiced outfit or platoon.

The easier it is to kill targets as one person, the less rewarding "teamwork" will be. If you guys want a call of duty or battlefield game, there are hundreds out there, but they all have VERY limited teamwork involved. If you want a game that has 40+ people working together, all you have is WoW (no head shots or hit boxes in wow btw.) which I can't stand.

Plus, with hit boxes and increased damage (or instant kills), it makes the game easier for hackers to use aim bots. If you die in one shot, you can't tell if they have an aim bot. In planetside now, if you die in one shot, you know it was from a hacker.

Take all the rewards out of 1 v 1 situations, make it harder for people to die, you make working with a team essential and that is what made planetside great for me.

Though maybe all your outfits sucked and you could never kill anything anyway. I didn't have that problem being in Band of Bros on Emerald. But you can join us when the new game comes out :) Sorry, had to get in my flame, I apologize.

Hit boxes on armor would increase teamwork, so I think it's a good idea. Armor will need to roll out with a mix of different vehicles to minimize disadvantages, and attackers will need to coordinate when attacking armor columns.

An increase in teamwork is good, decrease in teamwork: bad.


I agree with you completely, but I will say I hated Perks because steady aim with firing off the hip is cheap. I usually just have runner kill me with that perk and their KD radio is 5 kill 40 deaths.

[Jonny]

Yes teamwork is good, and there's a plethora of ways to encourage it in a game like planetside. But don't start thinking that because encouraging teamwork is good, one thing for the individual is bad. I don't think headshots should be 1 hit kill but they should do more damage than a bodyshot. I also don't think that a damage increase for a careful shot will discourage teamwork.

I also think that if you take away things that are fun for individual players, you're going to have less fun playing the game with others or without. You may also put off that crowd of fps players just a little more, the ones you want to be playing with so you can have any kind of teamwork in the first place.

Do you see the logic there? I understand your point though and I know encouraging teamwork in this kind of game is important, but so is gameplay and having fun playing. Headshots are fun!

[Valverde]

Yes teamwork is good, and there's a plethora of ways to encourage it in a game like planetside. But don't start thinking that because encouraging teamwork is good, one thing for the individual is bad. I don't think headshots should be 1 hit kill but they should do more damage than a bodyshot. I also don't think that a damage increase for a careful shot will discourage teamwork.

I also think that if you take away things that are fun for individual players, you're going to have less fun playing the game with others or without. You may also put off that crowd of fps players just a little more, the ones you want to be playing with so you can have any kind of teamwork in the first place.

Do you see the logic there? I understand your point though and I know encouraging teamwork in this kind of game is important, but so is gameplay and having fun playing. Headshots are fun!

I see you logic and agree with it. Whats fun for one isn't necessarily fun for the group and vice versa.

[Moneypennie]

I agree with you completely, but I will say I hated Perks because steady aim with firing off the hip is cheap. I usually just have runner kill me with that perk and their KD radio is 5 kill 40 deaths.

Well, most people I think liked the call of duty games as a whole, but the perks could often times unbalance things. Like in COD 4 if there were a lot of snipers, I could put on juggernaut and it would take two shots to kill me. Then all the snipers complained because there was no 1 shot 1 kill anymore, and they got rid of it. Now the games full of quick scopers.

Planetside can either go the way of COD because it is extremely popular (99% of mmos copy wow for this reason) and put in quick scoping snipers with one shot head shots (for "realism"), or they can do what they do best. BE DIFFERENT.

Good luck Planetside Next devs. It is really hard and sometimes unforgiving to be different, but is also the most rewarding when done well.

[Moneypennie]

Yes teamwork is good, and there's a plethora of ways to encourage it in a game like planetside. But don't start thinking that because encouraging teamwork is good, one thing for the individual is bad. I don't think headshots should be 1 hit kill but they should do more damage than a bodyshot. I also don't think that a damage increase for a careful shot will discourage teamwork.

I also think that if you take away things that are fun for individual players, you're going to have less fun playing the game with others or without. You may also put off that crowd of fps players just a little more, the ones you want to be playing with so you can have any kind of teamwork in the first place.

Do you see the logic there? I understand your point though and I know encouraging teamwork in this kind of game is important, but so is gameplay and having fun playing. Headshots are fun!

You do have me there. I guess I'm just super fearful of sniping in games because of all of the other fps's out there. I'm also fearful of Planetside Next gameplay resembling that of Planetside today. Too much zerging and hacking because of low player base. But some people have only known planetside like this and are making suggestions based on the PRESENT state of things.

I guess you need to give more options to the individual because new players will not have an outfit yet or even know anything about group gameplay in ps because they have never seen it before. They'll attempt to play alone at first and if it isn't fun, they'll quit before they ever see all the game has to offer.

[Jonny]

I guess you need to give more options to the individual because new players will not have an outfit yet or even know anything about group gameplay in ps because they have never seen it before. They'll attempt to play alone at first and if it isn't fun, they'll quit before they ever see all the game has to offer.

Yes good thinking. Headshots too powerful down the line? A patch can always decrease the damage a little too.

Damn i'm looking forward to the beta! (and more screenshots wink wink)

[I SandRock]

No please.

[DviddLeff]

Voted!

One shot, one kill.

[Manitou]

By request, another poll. But since it appears I have created a monster by catering to the loving public, all polls need to be created by thread starters and not through the hi-jinks and shenanigans of the Moderators.

Thanks!

[Miir]

OSOK! for sniper rifles with a system in place to prevent abuse. Cool down, special ammo, small clip size.

[Sifer2]

I voted no since there was no maybe option in regards to the increased damage idea. After thinking about it damage simply being higher but not instant kill MIGHT work. However it would just make balance that much harder to achieve since your throwing in this extra element. Either fast firing guns or slow firing guns are likely to come out on top leading to endless bickering between TR an NC. So I guess the safest choice is still no.

[I SandRock]

Not at all.

It promotes hacking and use of aimbot, and rewards those who do even more.

It kills variety: Everyone will be aiming for the head only.

It caters to one type of skill: Those who can keep their crosshair at exactly the right height.

It makes weapons harder to balance and pigeon holes them: The gun that's best for getting headshots is the gun that will be the best.

There are bullets flying all over the place wizzing round your ears constantly due to the huge scale of planetside battles. More than likely you'll keep getting popped in the head by random bullets not even aimed at your character.

It doesn't add anything to gameplay that makes Planetside more fun, besides sniping.

[DviddLeff]

Not at all.

It promotes hacking and use of aimbot, and rewards those who do even more.
Hacks always give the user an advantage, the type of hack is irrelevant to the fact they are hacking.
It kills variety: Everyone will be aiming for the head only.
There is no variety atm, you can only aim for the body.
It caters to one type of skill: Those who can keep their crosshair at exactly the right height.
Unless they are crouched, in a stairwell, on a ramp, up on a hill, on a wall, etc.
It makes weapons harder to balance and pigeon holes them: The gun that's best for getting headshots is the gun that will be the best.
Look at CS/BF/DoD, head shots are important, but different players opt for their favourite style be it high damage, high accuracy or high RoF.
There are bullets flying all over the place wizzing round your ears constantly due to the huge scale of planetside battles. More than likely you'll keep getting popped in the head by random bullets not even aimed at your character.
If you are being fired at, and are hit, you should die. Use tactics to avoid getting into a kill zone.
It doesn't add anything to gameplay that makes Planetside more fun, besides sniping.It makes all weapons more effective and on a more balanced playing field; even the lowly pistol would be effective if the user was skilled enough, rather than being a pointless inventory waste for anyone beside a cloaker.

My points in yellow, obviously.

[Jonny]

The point is, a going for headshot doesn't have to be always a better option. If the damage scale up is reasonable enough but not too high (I don' know what this would be..20-30% more damage?) then you'd be better off going for the body to maximise your hits with most weapons. Sniper rifles however would suit headshots for people standing still and unawares or for just sniping when your hidden and theyre doing whatever.

[I SandRock]

Hacks always give the user an advantage, the type of hack is irrelevant to the fact they are hacking.

Yes, but headshotting gives them a much, much greater advantage. It IS relevant to this discussion.. People who use hacks fail without, if they notice that their aimbot makes them a sick killing machine it'll give them even more appeal to keep using it. And fighting a hacker means you have a lot more chance that you lose to them with headshots than without. Take APB for example, I could still beat hackers in that game a lot of the time simply because it had no headshots so their perfect aim wasn't as effective.


There is no variety atm, you can only aim for the body.
I'm sure you understood what I meant, but in case you didnt: You can choose your gun regardless of headshot potential. You can can decide to shoot at the feet with certain guns because of splash damage. Things like that.. tactical variety.

Unless they are crouched, in a stairwell, on a ramp, up on a hill, on a wall, etc.
It still means its about aiming at headshot height that determines who is the better player..


Look at CS/BF/DoD, head shots are important, but different players opt for their favourite style be it high damage, high accuracy or high RoF.
Most of those guns are all roughly the same, just with a bit of different accuracy, recoil, fire rate, clip size, damage. There really isn't that much variety in the guns except for shotgun class - submachine, assault rifle, LMG - Sniper.
Planetside being sci-fi gives it the oppertunity to add a lot more spice to the gun, let them operate differently, do unique things. Like the Spec Ops weapons, the lasher, the maelstrom etc.



If you are being fired at, and are hit, you should die.
No, this is not a war simulator, it's not Americas Army, ww2online or Delta Force where 1 shot kills. Also notice how I said they most likely aren't aiming for you but bullets just fly all over the place in this case.
If what you suggest would be true the only way the game would be played is everyone camping behind cover all day.


Use tactics to avoid getting into a kill zone.
I'm not even talking about what is currently a kill zone. Any planetside warzone has bullets going all over the place. I'd prefer dying slower than faster than it is now...


It makes all weapons more effective and on a more balanced playing field; even the lowly pistol would be effective if the user was skilled enough, rather than being a pointless inventory waste for anyone beside a cloaker

The reason the pistol is an inventory waste to take with you is because you only have 2 equip slots and you'll have your MED/ENGI tool in those, having to switch to inventory, equip it and fire with it makes it useless. If you could quickly switch to a pistol if you ran out of ammo it would have use with or without headshots. Especially if you use close combat guns an accurate pistol can be handy to have.
Also headshots are often based on pure luck rather than skill. Look at Black Ops where you have replays of being killed. You see them spraying all over the place and happen to hit you in the head. The MCG in planetside would be the headshot weapon of choice, it's already pray and spray it'll be even more so with headshots.

Headshots belong in realistic FPS games like the ones you mentioned, we really don't need Planetside to be just another generic FPS + persistent world if you ask me.


But yeah there's two camps and each prefers their own i guess.

[Miir]

Planetside combat in its current form reminds of chopping trees in Minecraft. While using a iron or stone axe will get you the wood a little faster than lets say a wood axe. It still all feels like your wasting time with something that should take a couple hits to do.

Currently I don't see a purpose for 75% of the weapons in PS. Everyone uses the same handful of weapons and armor that work.

If there are head shots or different hit boxes there would be a benefit to using some of the other weapons. As it stands right for example the sniper rifle is useless except for maybe someone new to the game that hasn't played enough to realize it doesn't chop wood as well as a jackhammer.

[Baneblade]

The only way I could support OSOK in any form is if you had to have Advanced Sniping (5+4 pts, Sniping's HA basically), the CoF for the BD was even more complete shit, and Second Wind trumped the OSOK.

[Bags]

Planetside combat in its current form reminds of chopping trees in Minecraft. While using a iron or stone axe will get you the wood a little faster than lets say a wood axe. It still all feels like your wasting time with something that should take a couple hits to do.

Currently I don't see a purpose for 75% of the weapons in PS. Everyone uses the same handful of weapons and armor that work.

If there are head shots or different hit boxes there would be a benefit to using some of the other weapons. As it stands right for example the sniper rifle is useless except for maybe someone new to the game that hasn't played enough to realize it doesn't chop wood as well as a jackhammer.

I see people use
Lasher / JH / MCG
Pulsar / Gauss / Cycler / Sweeper
Lancer / Striker / Phoenix
Dragon / that new rocket thingy
HSR / Bolt Driver
Plasma / Jammers / Frags
Thumper / Rocklet Rifle

daily. Where's the 75% of unused weapons?
also lol @ sniper rifle being useless... fight today on ishundar, half the kill spam was snipers.

Or are y ou suggesting that the sniper rifle should be able to hold its own in CQC against the JH...?

[Miir]

I see people use
Where's the 75% of unused weapons?
also lol @ sniper rifle being useless... fight today on ishundar, half the kill spam was snipers.

Or are y ou suggesting that the sniper rifle should be able to hold its own in CQC against the JH...?

I said "I" don't see a purpose for 75% of the weapons. I think the only time I used at least some of them was during the leveling process to get the "bigger guns" After that... I got my load out that worked for me and that was it.

Two shot kills are not the proper use of a sniper rifle. :( I'll agree that you can still get kill spam with the two shots. But I don't have to like it :P

I would like the sniper rifle to be a viable long range weapon as good as lets say the Jackhammer is at close range.

[Baneblade]

Miir... holy fuck. Wait... aren't you dead?

[Miir]

Miir... holy fuck. Wait... aren't you dead?
I found this computer in the prison library. *shrugs*

[Sirisian]

Two shot kills are not the proper use of a sniper rifle. :( I'll agree that you can still get kill spam with the two shots. But I don't have to like it :P

I would like the sniper rifle to be a viable long range weapon as good as lets say the Jackhammer is at close range.
The characters in the game wear advanced armor. Also two shots negates the ability to get quick kills just because someone is standing still. When you hit them the first time you then have to earn the final kill as they run away or try to snipe you.

Also like I said before the sniper rifle needs to use an advanced bullet where damage increases based on distance. So it only gains its 100% damage at greater than 100 meters.

[Bags]

I said "I" don't see a purpose for 75% of the weapons. I think the only time I used at least some of them was during the leveling process to get the "bigger guns" After that... I got my load out that worked for me and that was it.

Two shot kills are not the proper use of a sniper rifle. :( I'll agree that you can still get kill spam with the two shots. But I don't have to like it :P

I would like the sniper rifle to be a viable long range weapon as good as lets say the Jackhammer is at close range.

So you want the Sniper rifle to be overpowered?

[Rbstr]

The characters in the game wear advanced armor.
Characters in the game use lasers and magnetically accelerated weapons.
That point is completely irrelevant.

I prefer my sniper rifle to be semi-auto, scoped about 4x and kill in a couple/3 shots, so you can use it as a decent weapon in middle ranges. I find the single-shot kill sniper to just be annoying.

Getting shot a couple of times with anything should be very concerning, enough that you really don't want it to happen and need to heal before thinking about continuing. I don't want one shot kills with a pistol but want the guy to drop if I've caught him with a full MA burst - couple body and a head shot. I want people using bunkers and thinking about cover more than smacking a healthkit in the middle of battle to win.

You guys make it seem like the headshot isn't in...every other game game in the last 5 years. Yeah, people aim for the head when they can, but I'd be willing to bet intentional headshots don't even comprise 25% of killing blows in a game like Battlefield. Saying that will start on how you don't want luck to be a factor, but you've got the COF already. which is a ridiculous amount of built-in random already.

[Miir]

So you want the Sniper rifle to be overpowered?

Good point... maybe not as overpowered as the jackhammer.

Honestly... I use to be very much against sniper rifles in FPS games. Mainly because of aimbots. But with Planetside it makes sense with the scale of the world that you should be able to fight from a distance. If you can hit a players headbox for a large distance accurately (not cheating) than it should be an instant kill.

Like any weapon it needs to be balanced. If they were to try it in PS:N beta and it is over the top unbalanced than sure take it out. But give it a chance.


Also like I said before the sniper rifle needs to use an advanced bullet where damage increases based on distance. So it only gains its 100% damage at greater than 100 meters.

I like that idea.

[Robert089]

No headshots, it's probably been said before but any instagib weapon = no fun.

I am a sniper, I've been sniping in this game from my first day. I don't often do it in other FPS games but in Planetside I think it is one of the few things they have got right.

Being able to be killed in an instant from any weapon is just frustrating, as it is now you get hit and you have a chance to get away, you don't feel cheated when he lands that second shot because you know he had a lengthy reload and you had a chance to hide and heal.

Although if it's me shooting you, there isn't much chance in it. ;)

[Furret]

Another thing that could be done, now that I think of it, is recognizing that the head is the most well armored portion of the body. Well... We have AP ammo, don't we? It could be made that, to do get a headshot bonus multiplier, you have to use AP ammo. This makes the capacity to do headshots a choice that can backfire on you, since missing and hitting the body will result in the normal subpar damage of AP ammo vs grunts. It wouldn't be a random lucky bonus damage if you are just spraying with white ammo.

^this, except modified.

Every gun can use three different types of ammo:
-Anti-Infantry Rounds
-Armor Piercing Rounds
-[cool name here](head piercing) Rounds

The regular AI rounds are the standard white bullets that I'm pretty sure everyone shoots.

The armor piercing rounds obviously do more damage against the heavy vehicles and/or MAXs

The new head piercing rounds have two modifiers, a minus damage for bodyshots, and a plus damage for headshots, depending on the gun.

A few examples:

The MCG gets a -30% damage to the body with HP (head piercing) rounds, and a +5% damage to the head. Nobody in their right mind would use these HP rounds on an MCG, unless their average kill is from <2 feet away.

The other extreme, a sniper rifle. -25% to the body, +50% to the head. This allows for an insta-kill with the Bolt driver (assuming HP rounds) and a two-shot with the other sniper (never used it).

Other guns, depending on how fast and accurate they are get bonuses. As a general rule, faster firing guns like the MCG get less + damage from HP rounds, and since its also a very inaccurate gun, the penalties heavily outweigh the bonuses.

Shotguns would have to be balanced out, because I have no idea how they calculate the spread of them. No matter what they do though, a three-shot JH near the head should NOT be a kill, unless more than, say, 80% of the pellets hit the enemy in the head.

Headshots should be a part of the game, but not in the way that most people are used to. If you think you're good enough to hit people in the head consistently, use HP rounds. If it turns out you suck, you won't get very many kills.

And yes, this would apply to the VS as well, you'd just have to give them different types of energy balls. =p


As for vehicle hitboxes, I think it could be a good idea. Though most tanks are pretty well armored all around. Perhaps the 'ol nade under the tires scheme could do extra damage, and it would also make land mines much more deadly (damage multiplier on the bottom of vehicles).


And another iffy topic: Shooting people out of vehicles.

Many people have expressed negative feelings toward this issue, but those same people aren't actually thinking about how to solve them. For instance, a major complaint was on stray bullets hitting you in your Mosquito. Obviously, most vehicles would have closed canopies, and you wouldn't be able to shoot people out of them. Vehicles like the Harasser and most ATVs? Definitely. There's nothing I'd like to see more than a land mine blowing up an ATV and having the passenger fly into the air =D.

That was a lie, there's a lot of things I'd like to see more, but it'd still be pretty cool.

The only problem is the sheer number of stray projectiles in a game like PlanetSide, which really sways me to believe it wouldn't work out.

Anyway, that's my opinion on headshots and hitboxes.

[LordReaver]

Answer to both of these is this is a shooter, not a roleplay game.

Genres are almost meaningless in this day and age. It really says more about the control scheme than what they originally stood for.

I don't see what any of that had to do with my not caring for headshots. I never said why, so you have literally no idea my reasons, just only my conclusion.

Headshots promote quick aiming ability. They, however, demote sustained aiming ability. They effectively do nothing for skill in the grand scheme of things. Ever notice how the top players in shooters seem to have an average headshots ratio?

No helmet = instant kill with sniper rifle or heavier precision weapons.
What about the cosmetic no helmet in the original? How would something like that work?

In that game if you were not better than someone else you usually died.

come on if I have better aim than the other guy I should be damn well rewarded for it.
If you are aren't better than the other person, obviously you should die...

If you have better aim than the other person, your reward is killing them anyways...

Sounds like you are just bragging about being good in another game.

[Canaris]

I just don't see PS and headshots going together, for another FPS where you're supposed to die quickly it's fine but in this style and future setting it's not required.

[Sifer2]

Man if the Sniper Rifle was buffed like some are suggesting it would hardly add variety. It would just make EVERYONE a Sniper. It would be like Halo only hundred times worse cause instead of only one or two Snipers to be found on the map everyone could spawn with one.

An I would say its an accurate comparison since in Halo you have more of a lifebar than in most FPS. So headshot capable weapons dominate that game. The Sniper in particular being easily the most powerful gun if you can get headshots. Throw some aimbots in the mix an you would ruin Planetside Next almost instantly.

[basti]

Not At All 18 58.06%

Lets face facts here: Nobody wants this crap. Now stop requesting it, because there are only two possibile ends here:
1. You never shutup, and never get what you want, simply because sane people know its a bad idea.
2. you at some point get headshots in PSN, and can then watch the game dying in less than a few hours, because the great majority of people will just log off and never com back.

Sniping was always fine in Planetside. The Bolt driver isnt overpowered or underpowered. 2 shots, 1 kill. Team up with a buddy and aim for the same target = insta kill.

[Miir]

Lets face facts here: Nobody wants this crap.

When you say nobody? Do you mean the couple hundred forum lurkers on PSU? or the couple thousand players of Planetside?

Because I put my money on the couple million people playing games like Call of Duty that want better hit boxes and head shots :P

Come on don't be like that.

[Firefly]

So you want the Sniper rifle to be overpowered?
I want the sniper rifles to be balanced. A sniper rifle is designed to be a one-shot kill weapon. Now since they came up with the concept of Planetside not being an insta-gib game (explain Jackhammer and Ye Olde Lasher), that's not really possible.

I understand the scope of the game is smaller than an actual real-world environment, which is why Mosquitoes seem to go incredibly fast at a whopping 130kph, which in reality is NOT 130mph, but is actually only ~80 mph, which means sniper rifles don't really reach out and touch someone, they just shoot longer than other weapons. But really, I'd like the sniper rifles to function a lot closer to their real-world equivalents. That doesn't mean hitboxes mind you, it just means have it actually have better range, allow for maybe a secondary mode to be an actual prone position, and mouse-moving whilst in zoom doesn't jack your vision all over the place. I can move my optics on a moving target without it flopping all over time and space, add a little more reality in-game then.

[I SandRock]

When you say nobody? Do you mean the couple hundred forum lurkers on PSU? or the couple thousand players of Planetside?

Because I put my money on the couple million people playing games like Call of Duty that want better hit boxes and head shots :P

Come on don't be like that.

And I put my money on the couple of million people playing games like WoW (lol) who don't. C wut I did der? :P


I want the sniper rifles to be balanced. A sniper rifle is designed to be a one-shot kill weapon. Now since they came up with the concept of Planetside not being an insta-gib game (explain Jackhammer and Ye Olde Lasher), that's not really possible.


Wait what? A lot of games don't have 1 shot sniper rifles any more. And a lot of games never had. Or had different options. The AWP in CS:S is universally hated and banned on most servers for instance.

1 shot sniper rifles are bad idea. The sniper rifle in PS is fine, a great weapon and I love using it. I always have the sniper cert. I got the yellow merit ribbon for it :D

[Miir]

And I put my money on the couple of million people playing games like WoW (lol) who don't. C wut I did der? :P


Are they trying to cater to a WoW combat style though?

I'd like to see things more realistic that's all. If one shot kills isn't an option for PS:N. I'd like to at least see more damage for a head shot versus a arm or leg.

[I SandRock]

Are they trying to cater to a WoW combat style though?

I'd like to see things more realistic that's all. If one shot kills isn't an option for PS:N. I'd like to at least see more damage for a head shot versus a arm or leg.

Are they trying to cater to people who only like headshots? :p


I personally don't want headshots for reasons stated previously. Whether i'm part of a majority or minority I don't know.

[Firefly]

Wait what? A lot of games don't have 1 shot sniper rifles any more. And a lot of games never had. [...] 1 shot sniper rifles are bad idea. The sniper rifle in PS is fine
"Any more" implies present tense. Planetside is not a present-tense game. The game was designed 2002 and early 2003 timeframe. And I'm not talking about what other games do and do not have, or did and did not have. I'm talking strictly about Planetside. The developers made a big production of saying something about not wanting one-shot kill weapons. Nor am I asking for one-shot weapons. I like its damage just the way it is - sorry, I should have added that on to my paragraph with an "...and that's fine with me". It's the range and the optics mechanics that I have an issue with. Moving the "scope" (G-d I hate that fucking word as bad as I do "clip") jerks the CoF reticule all over the place. I don't know about anyone else who's a trained shooter, but that's bloody awful to me.


Are they trying to cater to a WoW combat style though?
No, this is an FPS, not a PvE grind/gearfest where "combat" consists of slapping NPCs. LAWL, combat in WoW... is there such a thing?

[L4G]

Not read all the posts but in response to the initial 'Headshots?' question.

No not ever, Never!!

Headshots and Planetside don't fit together ... The TR have ZehGoggles so they absorb bullet damage and the NC & VS have nothing going on in their heads which a bullet could damage.

[Miir]

I think they should cater to people that like beer. Cause that is a huge untapped market world wide.

Maybe they could have headshot or hardcore realistic servers and something toned down for the people that don't like headshots? That seems to work for MMORPG's (PvP, PvE servers)

[Bags]

I think they should cater to people that like beer. Cause that is a huge untapped market world wide.

Maybe they could have headshot or hardcore realistic servers and something toned down for the people that don't like headshots? That seems to work for MMORPG's (PvP, PvE servers)

No need to fragment the community.

[Miir]

No need to fragment the community.

I don't think it would fragment the community. It's just giving people options for their play styles and it seems like an easy fix to do by just adjusting some weapon damages? (but I don't really know the technical implications)

In the end I'd rather have the community be vastly larger than it was the during the first release. If the market for FPS games wants realism and that's the larger market than I say go that route.

If they don't want to do head shots... fine but please give us something more realistic.

I've never had the opportunity with Planetside to experience headshots. Maybe it would suck. Maybe it won't work with this scale of play. I'd still like to try it out before making that decision based on past game experiences.

[Firefly]

I've never had the opportunity with Planetside to experience headshots. Maybe it would suck. Maybe it won't work with this scale of play. I'd still like to try it out before making that decision based on past game experiences.
No one has, so all these people talking out of their assholes about what would work and what wouldn't, especially when just about all of them are Planetside PLAYERS instead of Planetside DEVELOPERS means a sum total of jack and coke. Mmmm...

I think the original reason behind headshots was A) no insta-gib and B) lag. Though I loved the random jackass on Forumside back in the day who would swear they did have hitboxes. Anywayz. Technology has changed, dev tools have changed, PCs have changed, loads have changed, internet connections have changed, Obama advocates change, I change the lad's diapers, you get the point amirite?

So. Here's what I propose - implement two hitboxes - one headshot and one body block. The headshot box should be, naturally, no bigger than the head. Have it stress-tested on PS:N servers. Let's put it to the test. Try it out. See if it works. Get five hundred people on all three empires and let's have ourselves a headshot test session. If it's a fail, take it out. That simple.

[Miir]

So. Here's what I propose - implement two hitboxes - one headshot and one body block. The headshot box should be, naturally, no bigger than the head. Have it stress-tested on PS:N servers. Let's put it to the test. Try it out. See if it works. Get five hundred people on all three empires and let's have ourselves a headshot test session. If it's a fail, take it out. That simple.

/agree

Nice post.

[Hamma]

Agreed!

And seriously don't ever bring WoW into an FPS conversation. PVP in WoW is purely gear based.

[Bags]

Agreed!

And seriously don't ever bring WoW into an FPS conversation. PVP in WoW is purely gear based.

That's not completely true. While it's certainly harder to beat someone who out gears you, it's not anywhere near impossible.

That said I've always supported everyone in pvp having equal gear.

[I SandRock]

Agreed!

And seriously don't ever bring WoW into an FPS conversation. PVP in WoW is purely gear based.

Haha. Well, the intend was to say that Planetside can very well cater to other people who don't play games with headshots and geek over it but would still be interested in playing planetside. Perhaps instead of WoW i should've said APB / GA or the best of them all... PLANETSIDE!... wait... :p

[Firefly]

PVP in WoW is purely gear based.
PvP in WoW is shit and shouldn't even be considered PvP unless, by PvP, you mean Penis vs Penis. Because all it is, is a bunch of dick-waving that compares very poorly to PvP in other MMOs.

FUCK. Sorry. Can you tell I hate that fucking game?

[EVILPIG]

2 things.

1. If you ad hitboxes, just how would this affect server load? There's more to it than what people have said so far. What about explosions and plasma? They would certainly hit more than one hit box.

2. Add any damage and I can promise the frustration you'll face after I melee implant/cloak and stab you in the head. It would be insta-gib for sure.

[Aractain]

1. Server load isn't impacted if its clientside. AoE weapons (and certain others) don't care about hitboxes.

2. "for sure"? Nothing should be instagib, not even a head shot.

[basti]

When you say nobody? Do you mean the couple hundred forum lurkers on PSU? or the couple thousand players of Planetside?

Because I put my money on the couple million people playing games like Call of Duty that want better hit boxes and head shots :P

Come on don't be like that.

Well, i put my money that i dont want those COD tarts playing Planetside. I want a strategic game with Leading, Tank battles, galdrops, reaver spams etc, not a headshot fragfest for whoever got the chainguns...

Just go and play call of duty, play it against good people. You will get frustrated within minutes and log off, simply because you have no chance.

Planetside itself got the problem than newer players got frustrated because they couldnt deal with the adadad warp and empire specific balance issues. Now we got the chance that this stuff is gone, and you just want to replace it with headshots? I agree it is gread to run throu 3 guys headshotting, but just imagine being one of those 3 guys, and imagine being one of those 3 guys but never be the one guy that does the headshots. You wont play for more than a few hours, then you log of and unsubscribe.

[I SandRock]

1. Server load isn't impacted if its clientside. AoE weapons (and certain others) don't care about hitboxes.

Hitboxes wouldn't be done client side or you could easily hack it so that you fake/hack the client you're always headshotting...

[basti]

Hitboxes wouldn't be done client side or you could easily hack it so that you fake/hack the client you're always headshotting...

that doesnt work. There are easy ways to prevent that, but clientside hit detection got other issues, as well as benefits. I hope it is clientside again, because thats the only way to allow you to actually hit stuff. Otherwise you would have to start shooting infront of running targets...

[Sirisian]

that doesnt work. There are easy ways to prevent that, but clientside hit detection got other issues, as well as benefits. I hope it is clientside again, because thats the only way to allow you to actually hit stuff. Otherwise you would have to start shooting infront of running targets...
http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_Multiplayer_Networking
As a programmer it's funny watching people guess about how things would or could be implemented.

Also I mentioned a few times adding more hit boxes doesn't hurt performance. Collision is done using hierarchy. That is if a bullet fires through the world it only tests against against a spatial partitioning system first to find possible collision pairs with players. Then for each player that is found a cylinder would be tested. Only when a collision is detected against that cylinder would the bounding boxes of the player be tested.

I will point out that all of this is very very trivial to do on a computer. :)

Should be interesting to see how it's implemented.

[I SandRock]

that doesnt work. There are easy ways to prevent that,

Well if that doesn't work and there are easy ways to prevent hacking you should start making that software because last I checked pretty much every single FPS out there is playing a game of cat and mouse with hackers.

Not to mention I've seen it done in Combat Arms where due to client side hit detection people had hacks that allowed them to shoot through walls and headshot you anywhere on the map from anywhere else. This generally meant getting shot coming out of your spawn by some dude sitting in his spawn...

[Aractain]

If they are hacking, a 20% damage modifer (INSTANT KILL HEADSHOTS ARE DUMB BTW) is not really the problem is it. Its the bit where his hitting you through a wall.

[I SandRock]

Actually I'd say those getting 20% extra damage are the worst ones. At least those who use extreme hacks you know are hacking. 20% extra damage all the time pretty much means you will win any 1vs1 and it's hard to tell they were hacking.


Though on the other hand if the extreme hacks aren't taking care of they pretty much making playing the game impossible.

Either way I don't see the need. I'll throw you a bone and agree on a 1% headshot damage modifier :p

[Jonny]

Either way I don't see the need. I'll throw you a bone and agree on a 1% headshot damage modifier :p

Oh boy, thats an incentive to aim for the head. C'mon, at least 20%?

Ok, ill meet you at 10%, deal?

[basti]

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_Multiplayer_Networking
As a programmer it's funny watching people guess about how things would or could be implemented.


And as a guy who ripped apart games already and created cheats for them, i can tell you that the source engine is ASKING you to break it. And doing a MitM for a online game is just way to crazy, and complicated. And i havent even mentioned encryption of Client and traffic yet, and rumor says PS Next uses that.

But lets put it together:

Cheating is hopefully a small issue, if SOE does the job right.
Performance shall also be no big issue. Especialy because im pretty sure hit detection will be clientside again (god i HOPE so!)

Means, the only thing left is the gameplay, and im sure we all agree that any kind of hitboxes, may it be 1s1k or just 1% extra damage, is a bad idea.


/thread

[I SandRock]

Oh boy, thats an incentive to aim for the head. C'mon, at least 20%?

Ok, ill meet you at 10%, deal?

10% of 10% and you got yourself a deal!

[Aractain]

Hitboxes or in gameplay terms using tactics, rewarding skill and creating oppertunitys increase the gameplay depth and fun.

Headshots reward skill; a stray bullet wont mean much, keeping your aim cool and steady on an enemys head will.

Hitboxes on vehicles and MAXs means flanking and teamwork are greatly rewarded while creating gameplay imperitives like reversing while retreating.


A game without depth is a boring game.

[Elude]

Why not just do a headshot system similar to UT, only limit it to sniper rifles where it actually can make sense.

[DviddLeff]

The whole point of head shots is to give those with the poorer weapons like pistols more of a chance if they are good enough.

[I SandRock]

The whole point of head shots is to give those with the poorer weapons like pistols more of a chance if they are good enough.

That's not how it works. It makes spam guns like the MCG easy-mode because you don't need to aim, just spray near the head for great justice. Or a gun like the JH with it's spread.

Pistols do shit damage 10% of shit damage is still shit damage :p

[Warruz]

That's not how it works. It makes spam guns like the MCG easy-mode because you don't need to aim, just spray near the head for great justice. Or a gun like the JH with it's spread.

Pistols do shit damage 10% of shit damage is still shit damage :p

Well first off why are you so close to a shotgun to warrant a full head shot? The Shotguns case should be you want to hit the body because its a bigger target and youl inflict more damage then going for the smaller headshot cause more "shot" will connect.

The Chain gun should follow same suite because its inaccurate ,the few they connect to the head shouldnt outweigh a string of body shots.

If this became a issue you could restrict it to non heavy weapons
Or it could be a scaling system

Snipers +50% Dmg
Pistols +35%
Assault Weapons +25% dmg(all assault esc rifles such as the cycler and gauss and punisher)

Just a example

[I SandRock]

Well first off why are you so close to a shotgun to warrant a full head shot?

Because I'm inside a base and turning a corner :rolleyes:

[Bags]

Because I'm inside a base and turning a corner :rolleyes:

Don't go in bases, silly.

[Warruz]

Because I'm inside a base and turning a corner :rolleyes:

So a Headshot wouldnt really matter anyway cause your taking a shotgun shot at point blank. But i do like how you ignored my other idea.

[I SandRock]

Your other ideas weren't anything new suggested to this thread really, and I'm opposed to those ideas as other people already suggested them and I replied. I don't think headshots offer anything big to be considered to be added. (Personal opinion)

[Tremadog]

Answer to both of these is this is a shooter, not a roleplay game. The idea that a head shot should allow for a 30% of health is both annoying and not very shooter like. I know some games have done this but if I wanted to play a RPG I would. I think they should just toss the whole health bar completely and change it to battle wounds. They could keep the armor maybe as a hit reduction.

If this is a shooter, not a roleplaying game, then let's scrap the headshot silliness, since it's just the random critical hit mechanic from an RPG anyway. :lol:

Personally, I see little reward, and only headaches (no pun intended) for it's implementation. It encourages the sort of gameplay where someone aims at head height at a doorway and clicks as someone walks past and then proceed to convince themselves they are truly awesome. It encourages obnoxious, elitist behaviour. I've seen games where players have been killed, only to complain they were killed by a bodyshot, which apparently takes no skill. If that's the case, then why did they get killed in the first place? :rolleyes:

In addition, dying to a random stray bullet for bonus damage isn't fun. If you are surrounded and have no cover, you either stood in the wrong place or your opponents outflanked you. If you died because your opponent aimed a pixel or two higher, you are punished for no real reason.

As for the "realism" issue, I'm thankful to say I've never been shot, but if I got shot in the leg or the chest, I'm fairly sure I wouldn't be able to get up again fairly easily. Getting a bullet through a few important organs in the chest is probably pretty fatal anyway.

Planetside has always been won by people using their heads, not losing them. :p

[Rbstr]

If this is a shooter, not a roleplaying game, then let's scrap the headshot silliness, since it's just the random critical hit mechanic from an RPG anyway. :lol:
Right, like the COF isn't an obfuscated hit-randomizer anyway?

It encourages obnoxious, elitist behaviour. I've seen games where players have been killed, only to complain they were killed by a bodyshot, which apparently takes no skill. If that's the case, then why did they get killed in the first place?

You should read the rest of this forum carefully. Lots of the status-quo supporters are as elites as it gets in the exact opposite fashion of what you describe. "Psh, you killed me with a headshot, that takes no skill, just luck"

Sound familiar?

[Warruz]

If this is a shooter, not a roleplaying game, then let's scrap the headshot silliness, since it's just the random critical hit mechanic from an RPG anyway. :lol:

How is it a random critical? Head shot = Extra dmg

Personally, I see little reward, and only headaches (no pun intended) for it's implementation. It encourages the sort of gameplay where someone aims at head height at a doorway and clicks as someone walks past and then proceed to convince themselves they are truly awesome. It encourages obnoxious, elitist behaviour. I've seen games where players have been killed, only to complain they were killed by a bodyshot, which apparently takes no skill. If that's the case, then why did they get killed in the first place? :rolleyes:

So It gives more reason to actually crouch or prone or lean around the corner or possibly a blind fire.

In addition, dying to a random stray bullet for bonus damage isn't fun. If you are surrounded and have no cover, you either stood in the wrong place or your opponents outflanked you. If you died because your opponent aimed a pixel or two higher, you are punished for no real reason.

Your punishment is for exposing the more important part of your body

As for the "realism" issue, I'm thankful to say I've never been shot, but if I got shot in the leg or the chest, I'm fairly sure I wouldn't be able to get up again fairly easily. Getting a bullet through a few important organs in the chest is probably pretty fatal anyway.

Shoot someone in the chest or the leg or the arm, while it would hurt like hell and could kill someone. A Headshot can instantly drop someone.


In the red

Im more then willing to meat halfway in having a scaling system depending on the weapon giving how much extra dmg is done. Where heavy weapons have none , assault rifle esc weapons have some, and snipe / pistols(cause they are such crap) have alot.

[Skraeling]

In the red

Im more then willing to mett halfway in having a scaling system depending on the weapon giving how much extra dmg is done. Where heavy weapons have none , assault rifle esc weapons have some, and snipe / pistols(cause they are such crap) have alot.

This I could agree with. Its actually not a bad idea. If you are good enough it gives you an option as far as weaponry choices in a given situation.

It makes utterly no sense for sniper rifles at the very minimum to not at least have this. It has been literally 5+ years since I played planetside so someone will have to refresh my mind on this... but do weapons have different damage modifiers? Only reason I ask is why bother using a sniper rifle that does normal assualt rifle damage.

All this talk of headshooting makes me want to go play some counterstrike. That or hit a gun range.

[Jonny]

If this is a shooter, not a roleplaying game, then let's scrap the headshot silliness, since it's just the random critical hit mechanic from an RPG anyway. :lol:

Not really sure why people keep thinking headshots is some kind of RPG thing becase there's a chance to hit a different part of the body. Its been around from the earliest shooters like Unreal Tournament 99 and it works well.

I agree, sometimes its annoying and people winge about bodyshots (and i hate the sniper rifle in TF2) but it doesn't need to be like that.

As Skraeling says it makes no sense to have a sniper rifle in a game without headshots. That either means the target dies in 1 shot wherever you hit him (ie foot) or it takes 2-3 shots to the head to kill him...?

I'm with different guns having different modifiers to the headshot damage. As Warruz says, none to explosives, heavy weaps and fast ROF guns, medium amount to pistols so with skill you can take someone out easier, and the largest amount to sniper rifles.

Hell you can even have armors and helmets that dampen HS damage (as the helmets look pretty sturdy in PS and more mobile armors are more vulnerable.

[I SandRock]

Right, like the COF isn't an obfuscated hit-randomizer anyway?


No it's not. It's to prevent burst firing mode. You have stuff like that in other games you just don't see the cone itself.


Not really sure why people keep thinking headshots is some kind of RPG thing becase there's a chance to hit a different part of the body. Its been around from the earliest shooters like Unreal Tournament 99 and it works well.

I agree, sometimes its annoying and people winge about bodyshots (and i hate the sniper rifle in TF2) but it doesn't need to be like that.

As Skraeling says it makes no sense to have a sniper rifle in a game without headshots. That either means the target dies in 1 shot wherever you hit him (ie foot) or it takes 2-3 shots to the head to kill him...?

I'm with different guns having different modifiers to the headshot damage. As Warruz says, none to explosives, heavy weaps and fast ROF guns, medium amount to pistols so with skill you can take someone out easier, and the largest amount to sniper rifles.

Hell you can even have armors and helmets that dampen HS damage (as the helmets look pretty sturdy in PS and more mobile armors are more vulnerable.

UT99 only had it with sniper rifle and that's an FPS. This is an MMOFPS and it doesn't belong in here. End of story! Your opinion is just an opinion. MY word is law. All bow down before godking Sandrock. All hail Godking Sandrock. All Hail Godking Sandrock. Go back to bed america, your godking is in control. Go back to bed america, your godking is in control.

[Warruz]

UT99 only had it with sniper rifle and that's an FPS. This is an MMOFPS and it doesn't belong in here. End of story! Your opinion is just an opinion. MY word is law. All bow down before godking Sandrock. All hail Godking Sandrock. All Hail Godking Sandrock. Go back to bed america, your godking is in control. Go back to bed america, your godking is in control.
Oh man let bust out my book of games that have headshots on all guns.

[Jonny]

UT99 only had it with sniper rifle and that's an FPS. This is an MMOFPS and it doesn't belong in here. End of story! Your opinion is just an opinion. MY word is law. All bow down before godking Sandrock. All hail Godking Sandrock. All Hail Godking Sandrock. Go back to bed america, your godking is in control. Go back to bed america, your godking is in control.

Ok, I don't really get why it doesn't belong in a basically, "big fps" game when it does in normal fps games. Why does planetside have a sniper rifle then?

I you could get headshots with the razor gun...damn cant remember its name, and the enforcer (pistol) but i'm not sure if the pistol headshot was just an aesthetic thing.

[Aractain]

If this is a shooter, not a roleplaying game, then let's scrap the headshot silliness, since it's just the random critical hit mechanic from an RPG anyway. :lol:

Personally, I see little reward, and only headaches (no pun intended) for it's implementation. It encourages the sort of gameplay where someone aims at head height at a doorway and clicks as someone walks past and then proceed to convince themselves they are truly awesome. It encourages obnoxious, elitist behaviour. I've seen games where players have been killed, only to complain they were killed by a bodyshot, which apparently takes no skill. If that's the case, then why did they get killed in the first place? :rolleyes:

In addition, dying to a random stray bullet for bonus damage isn't fun. If you are surrounded and have no cover, you either stood in the wrong place or your opponents outflanked you. If you died because your opponent aimed a pixel or two higher, you are punished for no real reason.

As for the "realism" issue, I'm thankful to say I've never been shot, but if I got shot in the leg or the chest, I'm fairly sure I wouldn't be able to get up again fairly easily. Getting a bullet through a few important organs in the chest is probably pretty fatal anyway.

Planetside has always been won by people using their heads, not losing them. :p

Is ANYONE here asking for instant kill headshots? Seriously anyone?

Im not. I didn't see anyone (point them out if you saw it).

But everyone seems to be arguing that 'randomly' dieing to a stray bullet is bad.

(Oh and headshots are not random criticals they are the similar to a archery target, the smaller rings give greater points - this is a risk/reward system.).

[Jonny]

YouTube - Saving private Ryan Boom Headshot

[Hamma]

This is kind of redundant but I really like the way TF2 does Snipers and Headshots I think a mechanic like that would be interesting.

[Jonny]

This is kind of redundant but I really like the way TF2 does Snipers and Headshots I think a mechanic like that would be interesting.

Nooooooo

Sniper rifle is lame in that game and too powerful. It just promotes camping and all that sniper crap. Its only just bearable in that game as its generally small combat zones with few long sightlines (mappers are told to avoid these at all costs so its not automatically sniper dominated) and of course spies take great pleasure in chain stabbing scoped cam..snipers.

[Bags]

Sniper is so strong in TF2 that competitive teams generally run 0!

[DviddLeff]

I am for one shot head shot kills as I am quite simply used to them and expect them from an fps. Counterstrike and battlefield are my fps favourites.

Headshots require both skill and/or luck to pull off and add significantly to the dynamics of combat. They allow skilled players to outperform the average, and reward tactical play.

[Jonny]

Sniper is so strong in TF2 that competitive teams generally run 0!

I wasn't saying it was too strong, because the nature of tf2's environment stop that - it would be much too powerful in more open maps. It just a crap play style, people just standing there all the time, pointing and clicking on enemies heads, never getting into the action like everyone else. Meanwhile you're fighting someone else or minding your own business then suddenly your dead.

So thats why i'm against 1 shot 1 kill headshots and long range weapon dominance. I'm still for a damage increase on the head if you can pull off a shot with a pistol...and I don't know what would be good with the sniper rifle.

[Warruz]

I wasn't saying it was too strong, because the nature of tf2's environment stop that - it would be much too powerful in more open maps. It just a crap play style, people just standing there all the time, pointing and clicking on enemies heads, never getting into the action like everyone else. Meanwhile you're fighting someone else or minding your own business then suddenly your dead.

So thats why i'm against 1 shot 1 kill headshots and long range weapon dominance. I'm still for a damage increase on the head if you can pull off a shot with a pistol...and I don't know what would be good with the sniper rifle.

Still keep increase damage but throw in a Tracer effect so you cant stay in a single position.

[I SandRock]

Oh man let bust out my book of games that have headshots on all guns.

What has that got to do with anything? He mentioned that game so i replied with how it worked.

Ok, I don't really get why it doesn't belong in a basically, "big fps" game when it does in normal fps games. Why does planetside have a sniper rifle then?

I you could get headshots with the razor gun...damn cant remember its name, and the enforcer (pistol) but i'm not sure if the pistol headshot was just an aesthetic thing.



And PS is not an FPS, it's an MMOFPS. And headshots don't belong in there because you can't manage your own servers so you can't self-moderate against hackers who will ruin the entire game especially with headshots where they get an incredible advantage on top of already having a big advantage. You can still beat a hacker in PS now if you get the drop on him and the situation is favorable + you got a good aim, quick reaction.
Plus the massive scales makes random luck heashots much more likely and probably the majority of headshots will be this, not skillful aim.

Especially with CoF and the long range she fight in and how tiny the enemy, headshots in PS would just be a lucky dice roll.


But yeah I can keep going in circles. I don't like headshots. You do. I don't. You do. In the end we just gotta wait and see what PS:N has and that's about it ;)

[Warruz]

What has that got to do with anything? He mentioned that game so i replied with how it worked.





And PS is not an FPS, it's an MMOFPS. And headshots don't belong in there because you can't manage your own servers so you can't self-moderate against hackers who will ruin the entire game especially with headshots where they get an incredible advantage on top of already having a big advantage. You can still beat a hacker in PS now if you get the drop on him and the situation is favorable + you got a good aim, quick reaction.
Plus the massive scales makes random luck heashots much more likely and probably the majority of headshots will be this, not skillful aim.

Especially with CoF and the long range she fight in and how tiny the enemy, headshots in PS would just be a lucky dice roll.


But yeah I can keep going in circles. I don't like headshots. You do. I don't. You do. In the end we just gotta wait and see what PS:N has and that's about it ;)

So you dont like headshots..........because a hacker(who mind you is already hacking) will have a bigger advantage. This is like treating the symptom but not the problem.

As for the random shots.....if its restricted to guns that are less spray and pray and more accurate i doubt that will be much a issue, and on top of that what basis do you have to say stray bullets will be issues because of this(keep in mind we are talking increased damage head shots not 1 shot kills here)

As to the first point its this "UT99 only had it with sniper rifle and that's an FPS. This is an MMOFPS and it doesn't belong in here. End of story!". Where you are using UT99 because it is a FPS and didnt have it on all the weapon as a example that a MMOFPS(which by your logic is a lesser FPS) shouldnt have head shots. So i made the sarcastic comment of lets me bring up another FPS that had it on all guns cause you are using a "pure FPS" as the end all be all so the obvious retort to that would bring up another "pure FPS" that does have head shots on everything.

Also as someone else mentioned the ripper did also and the chainsaw on secondary mode did(notice how its on gun requiring accuracy and things that would tear your face up).

[PsychoXR-20]

Head shots are luck, plain and simple. If you are aiming for their head, the smallest target possible, than hitting them is about luck, not skill, if you are aiming for their body, the biggest target possible, and you get a head shot it's luck, not skill.

Head shots work in CoD and BF because the maps are small and there aren't that many players in a game, and the maps are very..."crowded" in terms of buildings, cover, things to block LoS. Those games are also much faster paed than PlanetSide. Still, getting a head shot is 95% luck in those games.

PlanetSide has battles with hundreds and hundreds of players at the same time, huge maps, with generally not a whole lot of cover. Running across open terrain just to get insta-killed from a Phalanx spamming in your general direction would be lame.

People have mentioned only allowing head shots for sniper rifles, which would essentially be a one shot kill. One shot kills are something PlanetSide was very very very against, there are only a tiny fraction of weapons that can outright kill you without you having a fighting chance, and frankly, I'm fine with a massive battle tank having the capability to decimating you if they land a shell on top of you, and orbital strikes have a long enough cool down, and are easy enough to avoid that those are fine too. But giving a standard infantryman the ability to kill someone with out them ever having a chance to fight back goes against everything PlanetSide was trying to achieve.

People have also mentioned just giving head shots 10-20% extra damage. First off that still makes snipers one shot kill weapons, second, doesn't do much for any other weapons. If I remember right the Gauss Rifle does 20 damage per shot, before armor absorption, that's at most going to save you 1-2 shots to kill someone if EVERY shot that landed was a head shot, not worth it IMO for the performance loss, regardless of how minimal it might be.

[Jonny]

And PS is not an FPS, it's an MMOFPS. And headshots don't belong in there because you can't manage your own servers so you can't self-moderate against hackers who will ruin the entire game especially with headshots where they get an incredible advantage on top of already having a big advantage. You can still beat a hacker in PS now if you get the drop on him and the situation is favorable + you got a good aim, quick reaction.

But yeah I can keep going in circles. I don't like headshots. You do. I don't. You do. In the end we just gotta wait and see what PS:N has and that's about it ;)

Aye I wont keep going on about it.

You talk about hackers, but why can they get through on a game you're paying for monthly. Shouldn't there be anti hacker jazz that stops them and therefore they shouldn't be a problem?

[Elude]

Hackers isn't the problem, hit detection is. Unlike many fps games today, planetside has 100s of players on the field which has got to be heavy on the netcode, chances of miss registered shots are high.

This is the reason why most MMO's are not twitch based but rather point and click games.

[I SandRock]

Aye I wont keep going on about it.

You talk about hackers, but why can they get through on a game you're paying for monthly. Shouldn't there be anti hacker jazz that stops them and therefore they shouldn't be a problem?

If only man, if only. Hacking is a cat and mouse game. They bring out hacks, then the developers look at how they did the hacking, they plug the holes and update the protection. Then the hackers check the new security and find new holes, and it keeps going and going :P

These days devs are too lazy to make their own game protection and use shit likle Punkbuster, making it even easier for hackers as they are used to the system. And PB sucks all-round. Causes more harm than good as it kicks ppl who dont hack and leave the hackers playing, and lag the servers.

[Timantium]

I dont think he is asking for instagib but headshots should just increase damage not necessarily instant kill

Sniper rounds in the legs, body, arms, toes etc. already do what, 65 percent dmg? You want to make it 85 for headshot?

Increasing the damage to headshots is a terrible idea. People kill/die quick enough already. If you want to make it different for a head shot, LOWER the dmg from body, arm/leg shots and leave the headshot at the current dmg rate.

Otherwise, MCG, JH and other spray-n-pray/spread weapons will be way overpowered.

Another scary thought for you blueberries and cherries: would you want them to put lash dmg back into the game on the lasher so you can get "headshot" with lashes?

Didn't think so.

[Miir]

What I'm suggesting is that you only have sniper rifles at a certain distance be OSOK. Maybe like a couple hundred meters or something. So you don't have lame people running around inside a base sniping you point blank in the face. Cause I can agree that would suck.

I always thought that outside the base was suppose to be primarily vehicle combat anyways and inside the base/tower was where the ground troops came into play.

Do I want to be killed in one shot by a sniper in a vehicle? No.

Do I want you to be able to be killed in one shot inside a base? No.

Do I even want sniper rifles or other OSOK weapons in a base? No.

So we are really talking about the small fraction of the time that you might be out of your vehicle and going into a base or tower. (the transition phase)

If you are standing around outside in a combat zone then you should be a prime target for snipers. How do you fix that? Don't stand around.

But don't gimp the sniper rifle!

[Jonny]

Maby its not needed then, who knows. what kind of damage does the sniper rifle do at the moment?

Still think it would be fun on pistols - plus 1% damage...

[I SandRock]

Maby its not needed then, who knows. what kind of damage does the sniper rifle do at the moment?

Still think it would be fun on pistols - plus 1% damage...

Sorry that offer no longer stands. 0.1% and you got a deal :lol:

[Sirisian]

Maby its not needed then, who knows. what kind of damage does the sniper rifle do at the moment?
Two shots on a anything. Cloaker is one shot. It's perfectly balanced as far as I could ever tell. You just needed to lead a target. Back in the day when battles were big I'd go on huge kill streaks with the sniper especially on bridge battles. All of the shots were at the max view distance already and under the proposed system would have been one shot to kill which I honestly believe would make sniping child's play. I love when you shoot a rexo that the player freaks out and looks for cover and is given at least some chance at survival. Often the first shot is very easy to get. The player is running in a straight line sometimes toward you and you just take the shot. The skill is in getting the second shot.

[I SandRock]

Two shots on a anything. Cloaker is one shot. It's perfectly balanced as far as I could ever tell. You just needed to lead a target. Back in the day when battles were big I'd go on huge kill streaks with the sniper especially on bridge battles. All of the shots were at the max view distance already and under the proposed system would have been one shot to kill which I honestly believe would make sniping child's play. I love when you shoot a rexo that the player freaks out and looks for cover and is given at least some chance at survival. Often the first shot is very easy to get. The player is running in a straight line sometimes toward you and you just take the shot. The skill is in getting the second shot.

Yeh I love sniping in PS, it's different/unique and offers a nice challenge. Gotta find a good position and predict enemy movement and thinking.

[GoldDragon]

Two shots on a anything. Cloaker is one shot. It's perfectly balanced as far as I could ever tell. You just needed to lead a target. Back in the day when battles were big I'd go on huge kill streaks with the sniper especially on bridge battles. All of the shots were at the max view distance already and under the proposed system would have been one shot to kill which I honestly believe would make sniping child's play. I love when you shoot a rexo that the player freaks out and looks for cover and is given at least some chance at survival. Often the first shot is very easy to get. The player is running in a straight line sometimes toward you and you just take the shot. The skill is in getting the second shot.

/like
/agree

[Aractain]

The difference for snipers would be like 60 damage on body 80 damage on head, there would be a few more situations where damage players could be killed (just like in PS right now) but you would need to hit thier heads so realativly difficult.

Only an idiot would just let anything be instant kill from full health (I think cloakers should have 1 health left personaly lol).

[Warborn]

One of the problems of MMOFPS games is that FPSs are traditionally highly skill dependent, while MMO games succeed by attracting large numbers of subscribers. In order to make an FPS game more accessible to people who aren't hardcore FPS players, headshots being excluded from the game makes sense. If headshots are in then the skill disparity between casual and hardcore players becomes much greater, the game becomes less accessible, and it's worse for everyone.

I know the PS devs cited technical issues as being the reason why headshots weren't in PS1, but I doubt that, and I believe the above explanation is the answer. It's probably the same reason headshots aren't in TF2 aside from snipers. It simply makes the game far less accessible to newer players to leave them getting headshotted by pros.

[Sirisian]

Only an idiot would just let anything be instant kill from full health (I think cloakers should have 1 health left personaly lol).
It's vital that the sniper rifle kills a cloaker one hit. If it didn't then sneaking up behind a sniper would be a cake walk. Even if they do hit you they'd still be dead. When you start getting shot you have a split second to turn around and fire one sniper shot (assuming you aren't reloading) and kill the cloaker. As both a person that sniped and cloaked it seems perfectly balanced.

[Timantium]

It depends as well what they do with BR certs. If everyone can cert a vehicle then I can see sniping not being a huge issue. Honestly though, most of the sniping is done at bridge battles and wall standoffs. Many many many players do not have a vehicle to jump in (and AV weapons are super gimp with 2 of the empires). Leave the system alone, it wasn't broken they don't need to fix it.

I completely agree with the parity advantage comments too. Nobody wants to allow OSOK to gimp nubs or low cert players. It will push subscribers away from the game.

[Dreamcast]

Yeah they should.


How many times were Sniper Battles screwed up because a Sniper will just hide and medic himself then pop up again and continue, it was rinse and repeat.

It was practically impossible to kill Medic snipers unless another sniper shot him at the same time.

HeadShots with Snipers would make the sniping battles way more fun, either that or medics can't have snipers because that totally destroyed the sniper battles.


So I do think players with skill should be rewarded with headshots.

For those saying that headshots will make the game too easy to kill people, totally disagree, most of the time players were moving around, it's hard to get head shots like that.....If they were still it does make it easier, but most of the time the once who are still are the snipers....basically snipers would go after snipers if headshots were possible. So it would help everyone IMO

[I SandRock]

Yeah they should.


How many times were Sniper Battles screwed up because a Sniper will just hide and medic himself then pop up again and continue, it was rinse and repeat.

It was practically impossible to kill Medic snipers unless another sniper shot him at the same time.

HeadShots with Snipers would make the sniping battles way more fun, either that or medics can't have snipers because that totally destroyed the sniper battles.


So I do think players with skill should be rewarded with headshots.

For those saying that headshots will make the game too easy to kill people, totally disagree, most of the time players were moving around, it's hard to get head shots like that.....If they were still it does make it easier, but most of the time the once who are still are the snipers....basically snipers would go after snipers if headshots were possible. So it would help everyone IMO

Perhaps snipers weren't the best option to kill another sniper with. And the entire game was like that for EVERYONE no matter the gun. You get hurt, you hide, you heal. EVERYONE did that, not just snipers.

Argument invalid :p

[Timantium]

Yeah, I dont see how medic abilities justify OSOK or increased dmg headshots. Inc dmg headshots (but not OSOK) make no sense as it already only takes 2 shots to kill with bolt driver. Who cares if it's 60 dmg, 70 dmg or 80 dmg.

I imagine headshots would make this game similar to when all the CN play and nobody goes for bases, they just set up on two hills and flail at eachother.

Who would charge a base covered with snipers in a OSOK environment? Nobody would. Battles would stall. Subscribers would leave.

[Warruz]

Yeah, I dont see how medic abilities justify OSOK or increased dmg headshots. Inc dmg headshots (but not OSOK) make no sense as it already only takes 2 shots to kill with bolt driver. Who cares if it's 60 dmg, 70 dmg or 80 dmg.

I imagine headshots would make this game similar to when all the CN play and nobody goes for bases, they just set up on two hills and flail at eachother.

Who would charge a base covered with snipers in a OSOK environment? Nobody would. Battles would stall. Subscribers would leave.

Not everyone has full health?

[Dreamcast]

Perhaps snipers weren't the best option to kill another sniper with. And the entire game was like that for EVERYONE no matter the gun. You get hurt, you hide, you heal. EVERYONE did that, not just snipers.

Argument invalid

Sure you can do it any other time aswell but is way harder to do in close quarter combat...maybe they should fix that too aswell.

All Im saying it took away all the fun of sniper battles, whats the fun of shooting one guy and then the guy just heals?.....

And snipers should be the best way to kill another sniper.....sure you could cloak but most of the time it was hard to get snipers in a other tower lol.....seriously lol.

Snipers will be busy killing eachother and it would help your team now alot since snipers will finally worry about dying.....Sniper are the only ones setting still, there the easiest target for other snipers...Mostly everyone else is moving.


Yeah, I dont see how medic abilities justify OSOK or increased dmg headshots. Inc dmg headshots (but not OSOK) make no sense as it already only takes 2 shots to kill with bolt driver. Who cares if it's 60 dmg, 70 dmg or 80 dmg.

I imagine headshots would make this game similar to when all the CN play and nobody goes for bases, they just set up on two hills and flail at eachother.

Who would charge a base covered with snipers in a OSOK environment? Nobody would. Battles would stall. Subscribers would leave.

Your making headshots sound way too easy to do.

Most of the time everybody is moving, it's hard to get a moving target in the head....The only one's who should really worry about headshots are snipers since they just sit there, thats a good thing since sniper will kill snipers now.

Infact Snipers will be killing eachother more now that it will make it easier on everybody else.

Also add the fact that Planetside Next is probably going to have more detailed environments with obsticles etc which will make headshots way harder.


If you want to make headshots even harder, make the gun sway when using the scope so it will take even more skill to do a headshot....Hell make the bullet travel down the longer the distance like a real bullet.


I don't care just get headshots in the game.

[Bags]

Most of the time in MA fights people are crouched behind trees, healing. I can always hit the first shot as a sniper, second shot is harder. Adding headshots for sniper would just dumb it down as you'd only have to hit the first, when they're not moving.

[Baneblade]

Yeah they should.


How many times were Sniper Battles screwed up because a Sniper will just hide and medic himself then pop up again and continue, it was rinse and repeat.

It was practically impossible to kill Medic snipers unless another sniper shot him at the same time.

HeadShots with Snipers would make the sniping battles way more fun, either that or medics can't have snipers because that totally destroyed the sniper battles.


So I do think players with skill should be rewarded with headshots.

For those saying that headshots will make the game too easy to kill people, totally disagree, most of the time players were moving around, it's hard to get head shots like that.....If they were still it does make it easier, but most of the time the once who are still are the snipers....basically snipers would go after snipers if headshots were possible. So it would help everyone IMO

If you flank them, they tend to not notice. It pisses them off to die when their spitfires are still good to good and they have a med ap in their hand.

A stationary sniper is a dead sniper.

[Dreamcast]

If you flank them, they tend to not notice. It pisses them off to die when their spitfires are still good to good and they have a med ap in their hand.

A stationary sniper is a dead sniper.

It depends on where they are at..... It's way too hard to go around somewhere then shoot them twice.

[I SandRock]

All Im saying it took away all the fun of sniper battles, whats the fun of shooting one guy and then the guy just heals?.....

I think sniping in planetside is great fun. I do it a lot. I tend not to try and get caught up in sniper vs sniper battles OR I wait till he gets hit by anything and is low health and THEN shoot him myself. Going for non-snipers is better. Or find a sweet vantage point away from your infantry grunts, like a side view, then when the enemy grunts hide behind trees to heal you kill them.


And snipers should be the best way to kill another sniper.....sure you could cloak but most of the time it was hard to get snipers in a other tower lol.....seriously lol.


That's why there is air cav, vehicles etc. Towers are suppose to offer you a stronger defensive position...


Snipers will be busy killing eachother and it would help your team now alot since snipers will finally worry about dying.....Sniper are the only ones setting still, there the easiest target for other snipers...Mostly everyone else is moving.


The easiest targets doesn't mean they are the best targets. Sniping in PS is about patience and predicting enemy movement ahead of them. Perhaps you need to consider sniping just isn't for you?




It depends on where they are at..... It's way too hard to go around somewhere then shoot them twice.

Not everything in a game should be easy to do, what's the fun in that :p

[kaffis]

All Im saying it took away all the fun of sniper battles, whats the fun of shooting one guy and then the guy just heals?.....

And snipers should be the best way to kill another sniper...
I've never liked this argument/view of how sniping should be. I used to run into this attitude all the time in the original Team Fortress. Most of the team would be butting heads and fighting epic battles, and then you'd have 2 or 3 snipers per side ignoring the rest of the battle and objectives and having their little duels lined up on the battlements.

What contribution/participation are they really having on the battle? They're completely detached, in their own little world, and it's silly.

Not to mention, I dislike the promotion of snipers as one-man armies that don't require teamwork. That's what the two-shot kill promotes. Your enemy is healing after the first shot? Get a buddy, and coordinate your shots. Or, pin him down with the threat of a second shot while he heals, and have your non-sniper buddy close in on him.

That's how this kind of thing works for everything else in Planetside.

[Sirisian]

That's what the two-shot kill promotes. Your enemy is healing after the first shot? Get a buddy, and coordinate your shots.
So many times my friend and I would sit up on a hill on TS and call our shots. "Guy crouching behind tree" "Guy healing on wall" "Guy making a run for it" :cool:

Sometimes even I thought that was cheap when we were getting kill after kill non-stop in a big battle.

[Dreamcast]

I think sniping in planetside is great fun. I do it a lot. I tend not to try and get caught up in sniper vs sniper battles OR I wait till he gets hit by anything and is low health and THEN shoot him myself. Going for non-snipers is better. Or find a sweet vantage point away from your infantry grunts, like a side view, then when the enemy grunts hide behind trees to heal you kill them.

I agree sniping in planetside is fun, thats why Im so concerned about it...I mostly killed regular soldiers running.

I agree sometimes you can find good vantage points but sometimes you can't.

All Im saying the Epic sniping battles arn't really epic if you can't get killed by 1 headshot.

That's why there is air cav, vehicles etc. Towers are suppose to offer you a stronger defensive position...OrlY?

Again all Im saying is to be a sniper, it should be more risky, if your in a tower and get shot, all you do is go back inside and heal....if headshots were allowed, it will take more skill to sniper since you have to worry about getting headshot.

The easiest targets doesn't mean they are the best targets. Sniping in PS is about patience and predicting enemy movement ahead of them. Perhaps you need to consider sniping just isn't for you?

Isn't all sniping like that?

Im just saying snipers would be the easiest targets if headshots were in place since Snipers are sitting still thus headshots will most likely on work on snipers since they're still....trying to get a headshot on a regular soldier running will take lots of skill.

So for the people saying headshots will be too easy, I totally disagree...

It will make sniping harder now since snipers will be worried about being sniped, and because you still need skill to get a one shot kill against a moving target.

Not everything in a game should be easy to do, what's the fun in that Sniping,getting shot, and healing...sounds way more easy IMO....Why make it easy for people to not worry about headshots?

Whats the fun in that?

What contribution/participation are they really having on the battle? They're completely detached, in their own little world, and it's silly.
You can say that about Aircraft as well....It becomes planes vs planes

Sniping battles sometimes does become sniper vs sniper, alot of other times it doesn't, you're killing soldiers...then a sniper harasses you, you start worrying about the sniper and thus the soldiers arn't getting killed anymore.

I see nothing wrong with that.

If there wasn't planes vs planes then those planes would be killing vechiles and infantry.

[Warborn]

Dying instantly without knowing who shot you and from where isn't much fun to be on the receiving end of. Sniper duels can be exercises in futility, but then, either consider that you're suppressing an enemy sniper and that is worth something, or move somewhere else and shoot at more vulnerable targets. Sniping is the ONE THING that I think Planetside did perfectly, and I would hate for them to screw it up in the sequel.

[Sirisian]

Im just saying snipers would be the easiest targets if headshots were in place since Snipers are sitting still thus headshots will most likely on work on snipers since they're still....trying to get a headshot on a regular soldier running will take lots of skill.
People stop all the time in a battle. Landing headshots on a moving player in Planetside is easy. I can almost say with confidence that I never miss a shot I make when leading a target. (It is fun watching the bullet travel to the target over the course of two seconds though).

Also snipers strafe back and forth as they line up shots. I never sat still for a second.

It will make sniping harder now since snipers will be worried about being sniped, and because you still need skill to get a one shot kill against a moving target.
Sounds like easy kills for me. Snipers are already worried about being sniped. If you're sniping and you see another sniper nothing else in the game matters at that point. You duel and kill the other sniper.

Sniping,getting shot, and healing...sounds way more easy IMO....Why make it easy for people to not worry about headshots?

You don't know how to kill a sniper? As long as there are two snipers on a hill you do this:
1) Put your mouse over the enemy
2) Wait for a friendly to shoot the enemy sniper
3) Fire instantly. You have just double sniped the enemy for a near instant kill. :)
Works better if you snipe with a friend on teamspeak.

[Ant001]

Never missed it in planetside and wont miss it in ps:n. Headshots are lame in any game.

[Baneblade]

Landing headshots on a moving player in Planetside is easy. I can almost say with confidence that I never miss a shot I make when leading a target.

Assuming they are moving in a predictable fashion and I can almost say with confidence that you miss a lot of shots.

[Dreamcast]

Dying instantly without knowing who shot you and from where isn't much fun to be on the receiving end of. Sniper duels can be exercises in futility, but then, either consider that you're suppressing an enemy sniper and that is worth something, or move somewhere else and shoot at more vulnerable targets. Sniping is the ONE THING that I think Planetside did perfectly, and I would hate for them to screw it up in the sequel.

It depends on how the environments are made, you will have a general idea of where the sniper shot you from, you could then look for him or move to another spot.

People stop all the time in a battle. Landing headshots on a moving player in Planetside is easy. I can almost say with confidence that I never miss a shot I make when leading a target. (It is fun watching the bullet travel to the target over the course of two seconds though).

Also snipers strafe back and forth as they line up shots. I never sat still for a second.

Getting a headshot on a moving target is easy?......It depends on how he is moving and the angle but headshots are pretty hard...Like I said tho if it is so easy, make the gun sway when zoom in...Hell even make the bullet travel downards the long the distance so it won't be so easy.

I could hit a regular target when moving well, but headshots are hard IMO.


Sounds like easy kills for me. Snipers are already worried about being sniped. If you're sniping and you see another sniper nothing else in the game matters at that point. You duel and kill the other sniper.
Quote:Like I said you can say the same about planes....once planes spot eachother is just a dogfight....either way you're helping your team get rid of an enemy.

It makes snipers have more skill to be used IMO.


You don't know how to kill a sniper? As long as there are two snipers on a hill you do this:
1) Put your mouse over the enemy
2) Wait for a friendly to shoot the enemy sniper
3) Fire instantly. You have just double sniped the enemy for a near instant kill.
Works better if you snipe with a friend on teamspeak.

I thought you didn't want sniper to have there own battles?

That takes way more time waiting for a sniper to snipe somebody then just getting a simple headshot and moving on to helping your teammates IMO.

[GoldDragon]

How about the armor your wearing effecting if you can get headshotted? Honestly I don't see a guy wearing Rexo getting OSK by anything less than a tank, he is wearing -Reinforced- armor. Agile armor... ehh maybe, though I see more of a "takes 95% damage" than OSK because they're still wearing body armor. That way they would have to pay attention to their health and armor if they're worried about snipers. Standard should definitely be a OSK headshot and I also think it should be a more combat effect armor suit as well.

On that note, should the "wear helmet / hat / beret / nothing" effect this as well?

[Sirisian]

You don't know how to kill a sniper? As long as there are two snipers on a hill you do this:
1) Put your mouse over the enemy
2) Wait for a friendly to shoot the enemy sniper
3) Fire instantly. You have just double sniped the enemy for a near instant kill. :)
Works better if you snipe with a friend on teamspeak.
I thought you didn't want sniper to have there own battles?

That takes way more time waiting for a sniper to snipe somebody then just getting a simple headshot and moving on to helping your teammates IMO.
Their own battles? I loved sniping other snipers personally. Keeping other snipers busy is helping your team. If there was enough snipers on a hill I went cloaking usually though or dropped an OS on them.

I think you already know that I feel a headshot would make it way too simple.


Getting a headshot on a moving target is easy?......It depends on how he is moving and the angle but headshots are pretty hard...Like I said tho if it is so easy, make the gun sway when zoom in...Hell even make the bullet travel downards the long the distance so it won't be so easy.

I could hit a regular target when moving well, but headshots are hard IMO.
Just read what I wrote. That came off as a brag. I meant to say it's easy, but anyway I do think it would need to be much harder to aim. I used to go to LAN parties a lot and play FPS games so getting headshots was like the only shot or you died. I think I still aimed at the face when I played Planetside a few years ago. :P Not sure how you could make sniping harder without adding RNG which I'd imagine most people are against.

[PsychoXR-20]

I could hit a regular target when moving well, but headshots are hard IMO.

At which point head shots become luck. This game is not based around RNG.

[Rbstr]

This game is not based around RNG.

COF, COF, COF. It's a monster of RNG. Guys need to stop kidding yourselves.

Fact is both skilled an luck headshots happen. The lucky ones are certainly more common in a close range brawl but at medium and sniping ranges I'd say it's flipped to about equal in ratio.

[Firefly]

Dying instantly without knowing who shot you and from where isn't much fun to be on the receiving end of. Sniper duels can be exercises in futility, but then, either consider that you're suppressing an enemy sniper and that is worth something, or move somewhere else and shoot at more vulnerable targets. Sniping is the ONE THING that I think Planetside did perfectly, and I would hate for them to screw it up in the sequel.
I concur. I don't want headshots because I don't want one-shot kills in Planetside:Next. There are ways around having to take a second shot in snipe-mode. You can almost achieve an instagib with sniping:

A) rexo and dual Boltdrivers if you know how to instantly hotswap

B) a sniper duo working together via TS/Vent

[PsychoXR-20]

The CoF is completely controllable. If you're a spray and prayer then you might think it's RNG, but control of the CoF is a SKILL in the game.

[Traak]

NO headshots. End of story. Too easily turned into God-mode with hacks.

[I SandRock]

There is nothing RNG about CoF. It's purely accuracy based. Like I said previously, CoF is in pretty much any game but you don't see the indicators. So the skill is to not auto fire but fire in bursts.


A) rexo and dual Boltdrivers if you know how to instantly hotswap



If you mean turn reload off and switch to the other one without moving I did some tests with that in the past and you don't really save any time as the actual gun switching takes about equally long as a reload.
If it's some other way I probably don't know about it and it seems more like not-working-as-intended than anything :p

I do want to test how using that fast sniper + boltdriver would work. If you only need 1 shot with that faster sniper it might be an idea to shoot with that baby once, then switch, as people often don't instantly move on receiving a little bit of damage.

[TRex]

Planetside can either go the way of COD because it is extremely popular (99% of mmos copy wow for this reason) and put in quick scoping snipers with one shot head shots (for "realism"), or they can do what they do best. BE DIFFERENT.

Good luck Planetside Next devs. It is really hard and sometimes unforgiving to be different, but is also the most rewarding when done well.

The part I highlighted in bold is significant because it is this that is destroying MMO developement and user choice. Look at what happened to Warhammer online..the developers who made a good game in daoc took the wrong direction and tried to play along with blizzards baby. It's not blizzards fault per se, just that originality is stiffled by boardroom stiffs who just want a piece of Blizzards pie. Now its just endless wow clones or asian grinders.

PS:N needs to be different , not just a cod4 clone. If you bring headshots into the game , I'd sooner bring back surgile Jackhammer , its the same difference.

[Bags]

Yes, regardless of whether or not you think WoW is a good game, it is not a good thing to copy it solely because it does well.

Why play a wow knock off by a worse company than blizzard?

It'd be like why play a cod knock off by a worse company than activision.

[Effective]

If they can add headshots without lagging the server to death go for it.

[basti]

Lets get this thread out of the grave then:

Say no to headshots!

[Goku]

Either semi bonus damage on head shots or none at all. I don't want to get 1 shot from a pistol or even 2 shot in the head.

[Raymac]

Yeah, I'm curious to see how this will work. I'd really prefer to see increased damage on headshots instead of insta-kill, but we'll see. I'm skeptical of this working, but I could be wrong.

[Dreamcast]

Hitboxes and increase damage to head....need to be in, it will make the game have more depth with hitboxes IMO.


Now OSOK....IMO needs to be in...I already mentioned if it is in, it needs to be part of the skill tree and you will have to sacrifice alot to make headshots count(don't wanna go over it, not that it will matter because people think Im saying a MW2 OSOK lol).

Either that or people without helmets which I saw, get OSOK.


or Snipers are the only ones vulnerable to OSOK so we won't have a hill full of snipers with a medic healing them each time they get shot.


But yes Headshots in this game even if they are not OSOK.

[2coolforu]

Hitboxes and increase damage to head....need to be in, it will make the game have more depth with hitboxes IMO.


Now OSOK....IMO needs to be in...I already mentioned if it is in, it needs to be part of the skill tree and you will have to sacrifice alot to make headshots count(don't wanna go over it, not that it will matter because people think Im saying a MW2 OSOK lol).

Either that or people without helmets which I saw, get OSOK.


or Snipers are the only ones vulnerable to OSOK so we won't have a hill full of snipers with a medic healing them each time they get shot.


But yes Headshots in this game even if they are not OSOK.

The reason planetside has long TTK is because there are meant to be about 400 people shooting each other. You complain about snipers now try defending a base when you can get instakilled from across the map. The reason games like Bad Company and CoD have one hit kill snipers is because they are twitchier games, Planetside is slow paced and tactical by nature, the maps aren't corridors or closed in areas.

[Raymac]

The reason planetside has long TTK is because there are meant to be about 400 people shooting each other. You complain about snipers now try defending a base when you can get instakilled from across the map. The reason games like Bad Company and CoD have one hit kill snipers is because they are twitchier games, Planetside is slow paced and tactical by nature, the maps aren't corridors or closed in areas.

Yeah, 1 good sniper (and there will be alot of good snipers) could keep a large number of infantry pinned down...in a wide open area. In places where there is alot of cover, a sniper would be less effective, and counter-snipering will be more effective. Right now a sniper can peek-a-boo and heal himself and continue firing from the same spot. If you can drop him in 1 shot, then it becomes much more fair. I mean counter-sniping can be it's own skill tree for all we know.

I think we are all afraid of the uber sniper sitting on a ridge slaughtering everyone below, but the terrain and bases may make that difficult.

[DviddLeff]

Locking down an area is surely one of the purposes of a sniper?

As in reality, and hell, in PS1 just call in the air cav or a vehicle to root them out.

Do not forget that unlike in games like BF where snipers can dominate, they do so because they can often cover all of the angles you can strike them from. In PS you will be able to strike them from any angle; a lone sniper will not last long against any enemy force with even half a brain.

Yesterday on Cyssor I crested a ridge and saw half a pop lock of TR below me on the bridgehead South of Gunuku; 2 of them started firing at me as I smashed a couple of MAXs and infantry with my Lightning. Later that same battle a platoon of infantry took the ridge I was defending; 2 of them shot at me again.

When, ever have you played PS and had even 5 let alone 10 or 133 enemies all firing at you? If you have more than 5 people shooting at you at once you have done something wrong tactically; they have more than just you to aim at.

[ZeroOneZero]

Seeing how each class will receive a talent tree of some sort, a sniper class will have some nice benefits. Although OSOK is very tempting, It would probably be left out for various reasons. I would rather see that snipers have different ammunition, like in PS1(AA and AI). For example: Acid/Poison shots, when used, the enemy player receives a debuff and won't be able to heal for 5-7 secs, that way snipers can finish them off with the next shot and don't worry about the guy healing. Another example would be camo shots, shots do normal damage, but won't show the trajectory of the bullet, that way if the sniper misses his first shot, the enemy won't know where he was firing from.
.......Meh I was bored and these ideas just came out of nowhere. Everything is debatable at the moment. Peace out!

P.S. Snipers are overrated.:evil:

[Hamma]

Looking at this poll now it's crazy close, the poll on the front page is shaping up similarly, I may have to put a poll on the FB page as well.

[Rbstr]

...The front page poll has 86% approval for headshots in some form while the forums is 51%

That says something about the diehard forum-going fan population vs. a more general PS-news seeker .

[Bags]

...The front page poll has 86% approval for headshots in some form while the forums is 51%

That says something about the diehard forum-going fan population vs. a more general PS-news seeker .

I thought it was more that the masses tend to agree with devs more than they don't.

[Canaris]

edit misread something sorry

[basti]

I thought it was more that the masses tend to agree with devs more than they don't.

You can vote more than once at the front page. Some people are just abusing that.

[artifice]

Looking at this poll now it's crazy close, the poll on the front page is shaping up similarly, I may have to put a poll on the FB page as well.

The thing is, people who hate snipers are going to be opposed to snipers being able to kill them.

[Dragoneye]

Not sure if serious. I'm not sure if I read this right. You want to add luck to a game? Nothing is worse than adding RNG to games.

And no, there is no need for headshots. No infantry should ever be able to instagib another infantry. Everyone would roll sniper and no one would ever push the objective, see TF2.

The first thing you learn in any graduate course for game design is that that is absolutely and completely false.

The right amount of randomness to a game makes it fun, and helps people who are less skilled feel like they have a shot at competing with someone who is more skilled.

Again, I can't stress enough how much the people here complaining about headshots don't really understand what that means. It's not OSOK. (That fell out of Vogue in 2000, guys, seriously stop worrying about it).

It just means that they can differentiate where the bullets land. It does not have anything to do with what damage or effect is placed on getting the headshot.

Frequently in Planetside 1 you would have an extremely linear playstyle. By competitive gaming standards there was nothing to work for in PS1. Infantry combat was simple and had a very low ceiling of mastery.

More than anything, THIS is what cost Planetside in attrition. There wasn't enough mastery to any one aspect of the game to keep FPS players or MMO players interested. The small community that remains in Planetside is the group that wanted, and cared only about tactical teamplay.

But, like it or not, you'll have to compromise on some things to bring back in a more diverse community of players. That does NOT mean OSOK, that does NOT mean that headshot farming will be OP.

(And if you feel it is when beta hits, THAT is what you should complain about). Argue instead that you want to see "more weapon alternatives to headshot-reliant guns". Shotguns, rocket launchers, melee weapons. Etc. etc. etc.

[Gandhi]

...
If there's no OSOK weapons for infantry then I'm totally ok with it, and actually I welcome it. But normally when you hear "headshots" and "sniper class" in the same game, it means there's gonna be at least one OSOK weapon. That's what has people worried, me included.

[WarChimp130]

I'd like to see Headshots tied to Sniping weapons only and not OSOK, at least not against all targets. Since their is going to be a skill training system I'd like to see the damage tied to the skill tree. And tie the damage to distance. At max range you can get OSOK with a fully trained sniper rifle but closer range a head shot gives you a much smaller bonus to damage.

This way you give actual snipers something to work towards and you avoid people just walking up a hallway unloading an MCG and blasting everybody's heads off their shoulders.

Also maybe for cloakers give them an ability for coup de grace shots but with a penalty on recloak time. Like they can close range blast you for mass damage from behind, but make it so they regret it for doing it in a close range area. Maybe a specific cloaker only pistol that has a slow RoF but can take down an upclose target in one shot. Prevent them from spamming it in crowded area's, but if they manage to get right up behind a single person hacking a console or putting out CE they can lay them out.

[Dragoneye]

If there's no OSOK weapons for infantry then I'm totally ok with it, and actually I welcome it. But normally when you hear "headshots" and "sniper class" in the same game, it means there's gonna be at least one OSOK weapon. That's what has people worried, me included.

Ofc. Like I said, OSOK was proven un-fun by the AWP. Games since CS:S have, as a rule of thumb, avoided the concept.

BFBC2 (which is one of the games they admitted to being inspired by), does two things:

1.) Per-weapon damage thresholds and headshot multipliers- To make sure that no matter what upgrades you pick, you can't pass an acceptable TTK threshold at a certain distance.

2.) That there are reasons to take damage upgrades on sniper rifles, and that even with all of these upgrades, it is IMPOSSIBLE to OSOK body shot.


I'll also mention here, that in a game like BFBC2 or BF2142, the games are balanced so that going for a headshot is NOT optimal at all ranges, in all cases.
The goal of the Battlefield system is to simulate somewhat realistic combat. The inclusion of factors like aim-jostling when hit means that it's frequently a smarter idea to go for the faster body shot, than to bother lining up the headshot.

BFBC2 has headshots, and they even have some OSOK headshots on sniper rifles. But, the game is balanced such that headshots are seldom the "correct" place to aim, and, as in actual combat, it is a better idea to aim for Center-of-Mass unless you are very close.

In these cases, headhots are a good thing, because they mean that the point-blank encounters happen very quickly and are resolved, so you don't get the retarded Halo-syndrome of standing 2 ft from someone exchanging clips into their torso til someone's Hp bar runs out.

[Khrusky]

(copied from the other equivalent thread to save merely rephrasing my thoughts)

I think that actually headshots are more suited to a game like PlanetSide than deathmatch games.

Headshots do, as stated before, take away some of the skill from the actual fighting aspect, bar twitch hand-eye co-ordination, but to me that's an improvement. What locational damage does is it makes how you pick your battles more important than your physical reactions in the battle. If you can instantly (or almost instantly) kill someone, then sneaking up and taking your time to prepare your location is rewarded. If they can just turn around after you start shooting at them and fight you with only a minor loss in health then there's not any real advantage over simply running straight at them. I personally think that it is more skilful to work out a route to attack someone that will lead you behind them or where they don't expect you, than it is to be able to track somebody accurately.

Furthermore, if somebody is in a position to instantly kill you, then it should make you re-evaluate your plan of attack. If a sniper takes out one of your squad, I actually like the idea that you'd have to find cover and work out another way around, maybe calling for help from your allies. Likewise if there's a heavily guarded front entrance, you shouldn't expect to be able to use your 'skills' to pull a neo and bust your way in. Even if they're not great shots, they should be rewarded for taking up good positions, and the attacker should be forced to actually think and solve the problem, not just go gung-ho.

This is why PlanetSide is better for headshots though. In a deathmatch shooter it is nigh-on impossible to know where an enemy is probably going to be, as spawning is randomised. In PlanetSide you will be able to predict where your enemy will be coming from and so how you should approach the situation. Likewise as there are lines of battle the combatants will each have time to work out what to do next, rather than having to be prepared for an attack from any direction. As the maps are very large flanking is also a viable response pretty consistently, and don't forget we have tanks as line-breakers, as well as aircraft and if their statements about vertical gameplay are to be believed there will probably be multiple lines of approach even for a foot soldier.

I know that people resent the homogenisation of first person shooters, but this feature is a good one

[CutterJohn]

2.) That there are reasons to take damage upgrades on sniper rifles, and that even with all of these upgrades, it is IMPOSSIBLE to OSOK body shot.

You can one shot body shot with the bolt action rifles within 10m, and with the M-95 within 20m. Beyond that you are correct.

Not too imba for a game like BC2, which has a plethora of weapons that will kill you in 1 hit.



As for headshots, anyone who thinks they will be OSOK is deluded. There is only a handful of games that have ever done that for all weapons, and those are the extreme sim games where chances are good one bullet will kill you anyway. The vast majority just assign a multiplier to damage. Many just have it around for sniping and nothing else.


Headshots do, as stated before, take away some of the skill from the actual fighting aspect, bar twitch hand-eye co-ordination

It would be far less clunky to say it just involves a slightly different variety of skill.

[basti]

The first thing you learn in any graduate course for game design is that that is absolutely and completely false.

The right amount of randomness to a game makes it fun, and helps people who are less skilled feel like they have a shot at competing with someone who is more skilled.

Again, I can't stress enough how much the people here complaining about headshots don't really understand what that means. It's not OSOK. (That fell out of Vogue in 2000, guys, seriously stop worrying about it).

It just means that they can differentiate where the bullets land. It does not have anything to do with what damage or effect is placed on getting the headshot.

Frequently in Planetside 1 you would have an extremely linear playstyle. By competitive gaming standards there was nothing to work for in PS1. Infantry combat was simple and had a very low ceiling of mastery.

More than anything, THIS is what cost Planetside in attrition. There wasn't enough mastery to any one aspect of the game to keep FPS players or MMO players interested. The small community that remains in Planetside is the group that wanted, and cared only about tactical teamplay.

But, like it or not, you'll have to compromise on some things to bring back in a more diverse community of players. That does NOT mean OSOK, that does NOT mean that headshot farming will be OP.

(And if you feel it is when beta hits, THAT is what you should complain about). Argue instead that you want to see "more weapon alternatives to headshot-reliant guns". Shotguns, rocket launchers, melee weapons. Etc. etc. etc.

Im one of the guys extremly strong against headshots, but your post just eased me down. Nice job. :)

[Goku]

Looks like head shots are instant kill now :/

Critical Hits Infantry will have locational damage in PlanetSide 2. A headshot will usually result in a kill. Vehicles will also have locational damage. Damage taken to the tracks of a tank, the side, and rear, might do more damage than a full frontal assault. Debilitation for locational damage for vehicles and infantry is being considered. (http://comms.planetsidesyndicate.com/showthread.php?t=4517)

[Zulthus]

Looks like head shots are instant kill now :/

Source?

[Goku]

Source?

Click the quote. On PS Syndicate Q&A Part 3.

[basti]

Yea, i dont trust syndicate really for that. Until i hear it right from SOE or see it myself, i just cant trust that stuff. Alot of your personal opinion is in a writeup.

[Rbstr]

This is going to be fun.

[Zulthus]

Ahh, duh. But I agree with Basti. I'll only trust that news once I hear it from SOE themselves.

[Goku]

I don't know where the Q&A came from. I figured it was a interview to be honest, though I cannot find who he may of done it with. Must of came from the sit down sessions at Fan Faire.

[basti]

Besides that, screw it. Heck, even if headshots become instant kill, SOE will listen very carefully and make sure that stuff is balanced. I trust those guys there. And it propably wont be like COD or CS:S where you just have to spray and pay, or just aim for the torso and wait till the recoil causes the bullets to go into the head.

[Raymac]

It's a Q&A, and it's a straightforward question, and a straightforward answer. I'd say Syndicate is reliable on something like this.

I can't say I'm in favor of headshot OSOK, but DON'T PANIC!!! If it is a big problem, we'll sort it out in beta.

[2coolforu]

Sounds like bullshit, this would make infantry useless against all vehicles and would also obsolete heavy armor/rexo's.

I seriously doubt that every headshot on all squishies is a one-shot one-kill, sounds like BS seeing as not even Battlefield or CoD make headshots from regular weapons OSOK

[Rarntogo]

From the interviews T-Ray said that in the Beta there will be changes. It's when the rubber hits the road. If there is something no one likes then it will get fixed or removed. What more can we ask for than that? If everyone else wants OSOK then so be it. I'll live with it. Just knowing that the majority has a say is enough for me. :)

[basti]

Figured it seems to be a private QnA Q got with the SOE guys. Well, its official then, OSOK.

We shall fix that during beta.

[Goku]

It's a Q&A, and it's a straightforward question, and a straightforward answer. I'd say Syndicate is reliable on something like this.

I can't say I'm in favor of headshot OSOK, but DON'T PANIC!!! If it is a big problem, we'll sort it out in beta.

Yes that is what I am reserving my energy for. Be productive later and don't waste it on freaking out now.

[2coolforu]

Stop the panic, it's obviously not true. I mean is every weapon going to OSOK Headshot every armor class in the game? Obviously not, how borked would a game be where an infiltrator with an AMP can take the same damage as a REXO With a Jackhammer, there's obviously been some oversimplification, hyperbole or context issues.

Chill

[Rbstr]

Well, this is a surprisingly well tempered reaction.

[2coolforu]

Also go the original Q&A and listen to the prose and writing style of the author, it sounds an awful lot like his own interpretation of the information revealed so far rather than actual facts read out by a SOE employee, he often says things like "Smedley said this" "Listen to the trailer to view it".

It seems that it is ideas that have been discussed by SOE interjected with his own interpretation, the prose just doesn't ring with a Q&A session

[2coolforu]

There you go, Higby cleared it up on reddit 'Precision' weapons will have more of a bonus to damage from headshots than 'spray' weapons, vehicles will have no bonus from headshots.

This would mean only the sniper would OSOK at the present time.

[Goku]

Thanks for the update!

[Bags]

Hoping sniper HS isn't OSOK unless sniping is made significantly more difficult.

Otherwise I'm content.

[Zulthus]

Matt confirmed a headshot with a sniper is OSOK, but all other weapons are not. They have a slight damage bonus though. He also said chainguns are in, so I'm assuming all HA weapons are back :groovy:

[Bags]

Matt confirmed a headshot with a sniper is OSOK, but all other weapons are not. They have a slight damage bonus though. He also said chainguns are in, so I'm assuming all HA weapons are back :groovy:

"Exact balance for this is not final, but that's the general idea that we're going with and we'll tweak as necessary."