Prone in PSN

[Hamma]

Ok let me first start of by saying that I do not want this in the game. I think it slows down things just a bit to much.

This was a debate that RAGED on in the early PS days and people were overwhelmingly against it. Times have changed and it's been a long time, most of us have played PlanetSide for years so I am curious what the opinions are now.

[Tikuto]

May depend on effective cover and effective camoflage in the game. If where proning is suppose to make you hard to hit or completely covered (100%) but does not work or there's some glitch making prone stance less feasible, and if camoflage is ineffective, then it's a waste of time.

Everything has to work or it can gtfo. :P

[Westy543]

Eh, I dunno. Snipers are hard enough to hit already. It would be funny if Cloakers could prone and get hurt/flicker if someone steps on them by accident.

I'm not really a fan of the idea.

[Sifer2]

If the weapons still use the cone of fire style an we still have generous life bars then yes it could slow things down too much. Since most of your shots will miss at a distance. In a game with precise aim it works better since even though their profile is smaller they are stationary so its easy to just aim an pick them off. But if Next isn't like that then it may just be annoying.

[Jonny]

Crouch is the new prone. And standing up is the new crouch. And running into a fight is the new standing up.

[CutterJohn]

I really don't see a need. Prone isn't all that handy unless its unrealistically portrayed(dolphin diving, instant 180 spins, instantly get up and get down, etc).

So long as there is cover that can be crouched behind that gives you 100% or near enough cover when crouched, its fine.

I'd go for a max crouch though(and a giant melee pimp smack :D ).

[Miir]

Crouch is the new prone. And standing up is the new crouch. And running into a fight is the new standing up.

Best response ever.

I can't recall why people hated it back in the original Planetside. Maybe it's because Prone is somehow link to Snipers?

I don't see an issue either way. If you have to use cover more in PSN I could see it being useful. But if the combat is similar to the current PS I'm not sure that I'd want to get stuck in prone too long on the battlefield.

You'd be just asking to get ran over.

[Wrath]

prone in a game is always going to be a raging debate look at bad companys 2 launch last year dice took prone out of the game because it slowed the game down and promoted camping to much.

and from my experince prone is never a good thing look at the games that dont have it TF2, bad company 2, CS:S. none of them games are any worse for not having it. and wouldnt be improved bu having it in.

were as you look at BF2 and the COD games, BF2 for all is greatness will be always scared for me because of the dolphin diving and COD always for me seems to decend into people camping layed out in corners of rooms.

[I SandRock]

No. But i'd love to have the ability to run and make one of those awesome slides into crouching position. What game had that... Ghost Recon ADv warfighter?

And I wouldn't mind a cover system even though it's really overused recently :P I just find it really works to enhance the immersion and the... 'feel' of combat. It feels a lot more engaging and hectic, like a real war. Running to cover, diving into it, shooting from over the top, chucking nades out. Huhah!

[Lartnev]

I was one of those who lamented about the lack of prone in the beginning. There is just something wrong about being on a hillside in open ground without being able to hug dirt.

However given that combat often takes place in bases (although the wall cover always seemed to be at the wrong height :doh:) prone isn't all that useful. And many other games have come along since (notably Battlefied BC2) without prone either.

So I'm of the mind that if it's in I'll use it, if it isn't I'll do without.

[Manitou]

Since I would assume the most use of the prone position would be in the sniper role, we need to take into account the argument for the OSOK or large damage argument.

Would having OSOK and prone position give too much power to the sniper?

Just a question.

[Raymac]

Crouch is the new prone. And standing up is the new crouch. And running into a fight is the new standing up.

This is the most eloquent way of putting it.

To me, the lack of prone was always more of a curiosity. I'm used to not having prone in Planetside, so it'll probably feel weird if its in PSN.

(Actually, I'm surprised it took this long for this thread to be made.)

[DviddLeff]

I want prone; it adds a whole load of tactical play to the game.

Going around a corner? Go prone and only poke your head out rather than your entire body.

Getting shot up in the open field? Hit the dirt and take cover but beware of enemies using your suppressed nature to flank you.

Need to hide from vehicles or a patrol? Go prone and hide in the under-brush.

Yeah dolphin diving was obscene, and there needs to be a system in place to prevent it.

[Bags]

TF2 doesn't have prone. I rest my case. It doesn't really add anything to the game.

[Aractain]

It adds a lot to the right sort of game (like Arma 2). Planetside isn't really that sort of game....

I wont mind if they put it in, but if it becomes like 3rd person ill rage on the froums i will!

[GaiaLegion]

TF2 doesn't have prone. I rest my case. It doesn't really add anything to the game.


TF2 is not a tactical game at all, and even then, it is a COMPLETELY different game. It's also an old game, when not many games had prone.

Prone should definitely be implemented, IMO. It just adds more strategy and decisions to combat.

To anyone complaining about camping: Camping is really only a problem in other games because their game styles promote it. Planetside is a game where there is really no reason to be camping, except in certain circumstances, where I don't think anyone has a problem with camping. For example, you aren't going to be sitting in a corner waiting for people to come by unless, for example, you are defending the CC, where people expect you to be.

I do believe things like dolphin diving could get a little bit problematic considering lag will be more of a factor than in smaller-scale games, but I think that is something that today's technology is ready to handle.

[Jonny]

You should be able to go prone, but only on your back. That way you can look at the stars and snipers would be puking on their keyboards.

[I SandRock]

I think it will be insanely weird and disturbing to see a bunch of players lying flat on the ground in a tower corridor trying to peak around the corner. I'm not a military expert but something tells me that for most guns (except deployable LMGs) it's not even a very good shooting position. In all those Iraq war recordings I never seen them lying on the ground shooting, always crouching around a corner.

But most importantly, it'll look totally retarded

You should be able to go prone, but only on your back. That way you can look at the stars

I lol'd :rofl:

[Bags]

TF2 is not a tactical game at all, and even then, it is a COMPLETELY different game. It's also an old game, when not many games had prone.

TF2 is from 2007. Really, everyone wants to add prone, sights, 1 shot 1 kill to every weapon... it's almost as if you guys don't actually want to play planetside you want to play call of blandness.

[Wrath]

TF2 is not a tactical game at all, and even then, it is a COMPLETELY different game. It's also an old game, when not many games had prone.

Prone should definitely be implemented, IMO. It just adds more strategy and decisions to combat.

To anyone complaining about camping: Camping is really only a problem in other games because their game styles promote it. Planetside is a game where there is really no reason to be camping, except in certain circumstances, where I don't think anyone has a problem with camping. For example, you aren't going to be sitting in a corner waiting for people to come by unless, for example, you are defending the CC, where people expect you to be.

I do believe things like dolphin diving could get a little bit problematic considering lag will be more of a factor than in smaller-scale games, but I think that is something that today's technology is ready to handle.

TF2 is a tactical game in terms of team work and breaking down enemy defences dont let the fun look and nature of the game take away from its complexitys.

also if you want to talk tactical game play have a look at the god father of tactical game play counter strike and counter strike source neither of which has prone.

[Firefly]

Secondary mode for the Bolt Driver only. AND it's strictly first person POV.

[Sifer2]

I think it will be insanely weird and disturbing to see a bunch of players lying flat on the ground in a tower corridor trying to peak around the corner. I'm not a military expert but something tells me that for most guns (except deployable LMGs) it's not even a very good shooting position. In all those Iraq war recordings I never seen them lying on the ground shooting, always crouching around a corner.

But most importantly, it'll look totally retarded



Err you may not have seen it recorded but real soldiers absolutely do go prone depending on the terrain. As in if its open terrain your suicidal if you don't go prone to present as little target as possible. That said the idea of going prone to peak around a corner sounds pretty stupid both in real life an in the game. Since I assume prone would take time to stand up an slow movement like in most games.

Anyway I agree with those saying it could add new tactics to the game. However I still maintain what I said about the Cone of Fire mechanic. If guns are still somewhat inaccurate using CoF in Next then Prone would likely be very annoying to deal with.

[I SandRock]

Err you may not have seen it recorded but real soldiers absolutely do go prone depending on the terrain. As in if its open terrain your suicidal if you don't go prone to present as little target as possible. That said the idea of going prone to peak around a corner sounds pretty stupid both in real life an in the game. Since I assume prone would take time to stand up an slow movement like in most games.


Yeah I was referring to the interior combat with proning.. imagine a base assault and seeing 10 enemies lying bunched up in the backdoor corridor defending :rofl: no-homo

[Kyonye]

I like it.

[Kirotan]

I support the ability to go prone.

Easier to see from the air and rocket spam.

[Lonehunter]

The argument to not have prone in PS doesn't make sense to me. But I'm also indifferent about it being in PS:N or not. I'm just playing Devil's advocate here.

How does it slow the game down exactly? In a 1v1 situation it's just another tactical choice. Become a smaller target, sacrifice mobility.

Is it supposed to promote camping? It wouldn't as much as 3rd person does. Even if PS:N had neither feature, people WILL still learn a way to camp.

I personally think it depends on the terrain/building design if we actually need it or not. I can't play any other shooter that doesn't have prone. I always use it to duck, to sneak around that low cover, dodge those shots.

So I change my vote for Prone to be in PS:N because I really can't think of a problem with it. But the current PS seems like they designed it well without it, I've never wished I had it amazingly.

[Rbstr]

It really depends on how they set the terrain up. If crouching is going to get you behind cover then there's not much need.

You guys act like as if it's somehow fundamentally different from crouching.
I think the key is that it has to be sort of slow when you're getting back up.

[Bags]

I have nightmares of prone in the current PS with their netcode /shudder.

[Vancha]

Realistically, it's handy in war, but from a gameplay perspective? I don't think it'd add anything that made the game better, only risk making it worse.

Now leaning, sliding into crouch, rolling etc...They might be interesting.

[Traak]

Now, if we could get the RESERVES to go prone, every time they were hit, then toggle to jumping up and walking around clucking like chickens, flapping their elbows the next time they are hit, now that would be cool.

Come out thou fowl spirit!

LOLz OMG. Now, seriously, I don't really see what prone would add to gameplay that adequate cover wouldn't.

If a cloaker could reticulinearly slither up to an AMS, in ulra-non-detectable prone position, and jack it, or cut the brake lines, while he's down there, would it really be more useful than just crouch-walking?

I know snipers would love it, because if they do it, smaller target. If their enemy does it, harder to get moving away from the follow up shot from whatever exploit they would be using.

Prone... would it make overhead-bursting grenades more effective? larger array of hitboxes to spray with shrapnel?

I don't know, not knowing how the game will be, if prone is a useful addition. However, I do know I would like to see additional useful cover, especially tree canopies that were impenetrable, not the "you can't see the plane, but boy is it easy for him to see you" canopies we have now.

And get rid of the vegetation that blocks MY view, but is invisible to you because you are 50 yards away.

[DviddLeff]

I used to love running along ridges packed with snipers in Battlefield, knife in hand.

[Rbstr]

I don't know, not knowing how the game will be, if prone is a useful addition. However, I do know I would like to see additional useful cover, especially tree canopies that were impenetrable, not the "you can't see the plane, but boy is it easy for him to see you" canopies we have now.

And get rid of the vegetation that blocks MY view, but is invisible to you because you are 50 yards away.

Those are the critical things, BC2 works fine w/o prone because they mostly designed it that way. BF2 kind of needs it because it was made that way. It all really depends on how PS implements cover.

If vegetation isn't permanent I think the game is going to end up with rather critical flaws beyond that. I mean, really, it's 2011, fucking up the foliage is not on the list of things that happen in a good game.

[Bags]

Wait, foliage is on your list of what makes a good game? ?_?

[Rbstr]

No, "not fucking up the foliage" is a criterion. Not having it to begin with means you can't fuck it up.

Having a game that's designed with being able to hid behind some leaves in mind and then making the leaves disable-able. That's the issue.

[Evilmp]

remember that one game that had foliage?

battlefield vietnam?

that gave me a bias against all plants in all games.

fuckin singleplayer was worse. couldn't see ANYTHING. I've never felt like I've totally wasted my money that much before.

(well, until I tried to boot metro 2033 on my x1950)

[DviddLeff]

I loved the bushes and trees in Bad Company 2; on the pipeline level if I was defending I would grab the tank and destroy every tree and bush coming down the hill giving the attackers no cover whatsoever...

[Jamini]

I would be for prone...

...provided you can only fire light weapons and sniper rifles from it.

Heavy Assault, Anti-Vehiclular, and Special Assault weapons all need a fairly high range of motion to properly function. Additionally, those weapons would be the predominantly-used tool of a camper regardless. To that end, they should be disabled. However Medium Assault, Sniper Rifles, Pistols, Suppressors, and Grenades all could fairly easily be used from a prone position, and players using such weapons would have a very good reason to want to do so.

Also, I dearly hope third-person simply is never implemented in PS:N, even for vehicles. Third person breaks immersion in a FPS and trains poor habits and poor tactics. Such as corner camping, exploiting walls, and making certain implants entirely redundant. (Re. Audio Amp)

[Vicini]

I played a ton of 2142 for a while and prone was the greatest, in an Urban setting you could hide from a passing tank by hitting prone in the rubble of a building, have a moment of respite during a fire fight to get patched up when crouch would let a sniper take your head off, or let you for an awesome 3 layer firing line with your buddies in hallways (1st rank prone, 2nd rank kneeling, 3rd rank standing).

This game never followed the whole snipers who sit around get the most points so i don't see the problem. Dolphin diving, if you had to move from cover to cover you'd run n dive too.

[SKYeXile]

TF2 is not a tactical game at all, and even then, it is a COMPLETELY different game. It's also an old game, when not many games had prone.

Prone should definitely be implemented, IMO. It just adds more strategy and decisions to combat.

To anyone complaining about camping: Camping is really only a problem in other games because their game styles promote it. Planetside is a game where there is really no reason to be camping, except in certain circumstances, where I don't think anyone has a problem with camping. For example, you aren't going to be sitting in a corner waiting for people to come by unless, for example, you are defending the CC, where people expect you to be.

I do believe things like dolphin diving could get a little bit problematic considering lag will be more of a factor than in smaller-scale games, but I think that is something that today's technology is ready to handle.

Planetside is not a tactical shooter, its a sci-fi shooter, planetside resmembles, halo, unreal, tribes and TF2, more than it does tactical games like COD, CS and BF.

[Rbstr]

So? PSN is not the original Planetside. If they went with the intent to do nothing but make PSN identical to the original except in a new engine it wouldn't be a game worth mentioning.

Besides that sci-fi and tactical are not mutually exclusive. GoW was scifi and fairly tactical, BF2142 was scifi and basically just BF2 otherwise. Half life, Killzone....the list goes on.

[SKYeXile]

So? PSN is not the original Planetside. If they went with the intent to do nothing but make PSN identical to the original except in a new engine it wouldn't be a game worth mentioning.

Besides that sci-fi and tactical are not mutually exclusive. GoW was scifi and fairly tactical, BF2142 was scifi and basically just BF2 otherwise. Half life, Killzone....the list goes on.

prehaps you took my terms to literal.

By Sci-fi I mean unreal of fiction type of shooter, the way people move, the guns themselves work with like no recoil, taking 3 rockets to the face and not dying, or 30 bullets.These games while aim is still important, so is movment, and ironicly they're more tactical than the tactical shooters, because they're generally more team orientated.

In tactical shooters, its about simulated realism, guns kill in afew hits, there is real bullet curving and sights shaking for snipers, along with with prone, grenades instant gibbing.

Planetside was never ment to simulate realism, not with the amount of shots it takes to kill people, the armour absorbtion etc.